I need to add here that the $600 filing fee is just to get us in the door, the actual trial looks like it will cost tens of thousands of dollars, so this is a wildly expensive process with no guarantee of winning.
We were so happy to see Dart Zone take an early interest in the hobbyspace that we let them in no questions asked. Now they’re reminding us that they are still a company and maybe we can’t always trust them to have our best interests in mind. I would very much support a pushback to make sure they know this isn’t a guaranteed win, but do admit it is not a pretty path ahead.
Well I think as a hobby we could easily raise $600 some blasters are even that expensive. But I think if we want to go that route we should probably start a crowd fund to raise a few thousand for potential legal fees, and maybe a legal consultant team. Additionally BTA is the only time I really see blaster tag being used in any semi official capacity by our hobby. I feel like it hasn't been used much so far. If we do go the route of defending the term I think we should use the opportunity to finally agree upon a term for this hobby and if we successfully defend it start using the term much more frequently have college clubs add it into their names and things like that
I agree it'd be nice to see the community have one term to use for the hobby, and you're right this one hasn't been the most widespread, which is why I wanted to hear from everyone on this.
Seriously... Why GAF, if it's not to prevent some kind of financial gain or monetization. When has using the term "Nerf" ever been a problem. Hasbro does own "NERF", but I've only seen issues with using the term "Nerf" when idiots add the word "Official" to their social medias and affiliated groups.
Any statement of policy, including an irrevocable agreement for pubic use are unreliable once there is a change of policy. We need to either dispute it or abandon the term.
I've learned a thing or two by speaking to a few trademark attorneys in recent days. I am on board with the pushback movement. Count me in for any help you may need.
Thanks for informing us. I'm sure Dart Zone ( or their Parent Company) will be watching this vid and reading the comments, so I can gladly let them know that I am boycotting them from now on because of this. I know it won't make a difference to their bottom line but out of principle I am doing it. TBH I haven't seen anything from them since the first DZ pro that could beat what was coming out of Worker since and presently.
Yah unfortunately big money companies get to bend the rules in that regard that the rest of us normally people can’t and it’s frustrating to see them do this and taint their reputation with us
@@Jangular well to be fair it’s like you thought it wouldn’t have been an issue your not psychic none of us are no one could have seen this coming and with it coasting so much just to basic object to them getting the trade mark there really isn’t much we as a community can do right now unless we all get the money together but I think even then it probably wouldn’t be enough the system at large doesn’t seem to care if there isn’t enough money being thrown at the problem and the vast majority of us wouldn’t be able to afford to help which is also frustrating given the current financial crisis most of us are dealing with
I just buy dart guns to plink with safely. I really think dart tag is more like the name of a game. Like Hide and Seek. I have no idea if you can trademark hide and seek but i feel like it would be kinda weird to do so cuz its a super general and known game
I wonder what Dart Zone’s parent company’s intention are? Do they plan on using that in their marketing? Clearly owning the trademark would allow them to try to legally prevent other people from using the term, but they might decide not to open anything legal. In any case I’m glad that we have the ability to protest this trademark and I hope this effort isn’t fruitless.
I commented on a different video that this gives the same vibe of "use only official Nerf darts" I really hope they don't start going down the same path as Nerf
@@JangularYou still rock trying to make it work. No use lamenting the past, there is still time. If there's any way to financially support the cause, I and others would be glad to help.
The best thing to do in my opinion would be to set up a GoFundMe or similar campaign, to allow anyone to easily donate to the same space. The community I know would be willing to support this cause, if not financially, then at least by spreading the word.
It's something that's being discussed, I just need to figure out what the expected overall cost and if viable or not. Right now it's looking like tens of thousands of dollars, which is just excessive.
I am not comfortable with Dart Zone appropriating the term "Blaster Tag" for business purposes. I agree with you that your filing set a presidence that should have stopped this from moving forward. There are two options that the hobby can follow to oppose the appropriation of the term. The first is to file against it and see the process through to its conclusion. The second is to for lack of a better term "boycott" Dart Zone and its various products. The saying "money talks" exists for a reason, maybe it time to swing the "big stick".
I absolutely dropped the ball by not pushing to acquire the trademark harder years ago and thinking it was safe, so this is as much on me as it is them.
Dartsoft is another established term ;) I am perhaps of the inclination that really, it's just a name. One of the strengths of the hobby in general is for things to adapt to conditions and even if the term can't be legally used, something else will replace it. And potential silver lining to all this is Dart Zone doing the advertising spending to promote the hobby :)
Dartsoft is an option, but I've had a lot of opposition to it after talking about it years ago. True we'll have to replace it with something and be adaptive.
Let's spread awareness of this. Permission to share this on the subreddit? My thoughts on this is that they (Dart Zone) is planning to compete with Nerf Pro (because Nerf's endgame with Stryfe X is to have "Nerf Ball). Whatever they're planning as a game we will only see at least a year from now if their application goes through I think. What's wrong about this is whatever gameplay they're planning they have all this time to think of literally anything else as a name and yet they decide to take "blaster tag"; even with knowledge that the community have already used this as a term to describe playing and flinging foam. It really reeks of betrayal to us after all these years propping their brand up only to be stabbed in the back like this. It feels like it in my opinion. I honestly am interested in this because remember years ago I think before the lockdowns we were just discussing as a community what to call what we do and I remember it fondly because the only other option was "Dart Soft" mainly suggested by our friends down under in Australia. I honestly don't like that term because I don't like playing second fiddle to airsofters and trust me: you don't want to feed the already inflated ego of the airheads that play airsoft that thinks we're a bunch of adults who refuse to grow up.
Go ahead and share it wherever, and I agree I'm not the biggest fan of dartsoft as a term either, my mind changed shortly after we did the podcast on it and we never revisited it like intended.
I think that the term is soo generic that if it did get approved it have to do with someone having been personally been talked to by a company rep. Not shady stuff just plain access. This changes my opinion of Dartzone and parent company. That's overreach and not unique enough for a company that is younger than our community to claim, it's an insulting money grab not an adoption. Like here is the thing you put this in front of an official and actually have to hear both sides I don't think Dartzone would have a case. The precedent that you have established by having used the term in an official capacity for an official event is more cause to either award it to your Blaster Tag organization or allow it to exist unregistered. I personally have been mulling over the terms Soft Foam Sports, Soft Ballistic Sports, ect to fully capture all the different gametypes and devices that get used.
Fight it. This is ridiculous that they come into our hobby and try to block us from using our own terminology. It's like you give your friend your Netflix login info and they use it to change your password.
ive just subscibered to ur channel because of this issue , i agrre with u , its bad its a corparate thing , hopefully dart zone/ prome time are trying to coin a term , like nerf of nothing , its easy we just use a different term
@@Jangular yup but end of the day it's or hobby not their we are the target demographic so all there doing is putting a black mark in their brand trying to owne a free sport
Welcome to the club. Sacks of shit keep getting really fucking close to copyrighting the G Major scale. It's so hard to watch those trials; I just can't stop cringing. History repeats itself. 😓
make a crowd funding source right now. Today. Don’t wait a second. And I will donate $100 plus share with my audience and I think others will do same. If you act quickly, we may yet be able to show them that we won’t roll over
Give Dart zone the love and money.. then they Nerf themselves out. And saying it opposite of normal. Honestly let’s come up with something they hate. BLASTERGUN KILLTAG
This isn't an issue for people in a HOBBY its an issue with people running a business. Don't waste your money on it if your not in the business of making money
That's absolute horseshit. Trademarks are not a concept designed for the protection of profit. They are a CONSUMER protection to prevent fraud and misrepresentation, which us part if why trademark holders are required to vigorously defend marks.
@@abquintic horseshit is business as usual. But it stands that it doesn't effect the hobbyist that knows more than any consumer or the companies that profit off us
I appreciate the willingness to support the idea of pushing back, we've been looking at options and talked to a trademark lawyer, just deciding if it's realistic to do at this point.
Serious thought... Why actually care? AtLeast 95% of people seeing this, aren't goingbto care. The term Nerf has become extremely generalized to refer to the hobby. When Hasbro cares to monitor my conversations over the internet, to send Cease&Desist complaints to me, I'll care. BTA is the ONLY time I ever hear/see "Blaster Tag" used. My thoughs have always been that the term excludes melee, and should only be used for your BlasterExclusive tournament stuff I personally vaguely care about. "FoamTag" was my suggestion to replace "Nerf" if that ever really mattered to Any1 other than AntiCorperate people opposing Hasbro.
@@PirateJohnson lmao check that last sentence. And Dart Zone's close involvement is exactly why some are concerned that them getting the trademark could signal that they'd enforce it. Nerf enforces theirs typically on a larger scale like for Jared's Epic _ battles.
@@abquintic , You can't use the term in naming an event... I get that. Does any corporate concern ever occur when you have the event or talk about it, when the term is used, though. I'm just saying it's like if you sell SnowCone that have MtnDew as an ingredient, PepsiCo. Isn't gonna want you to plaster the building you're selling from with big official TradeMarked logos. Doesn't seem UnReasonable. At the point your MenuBoars has MtnDew listed as a flavor, the chances of any1 caring at an official capacity is likely gonna be less than 0.001%.
@@Jangular Genuinely think it wouldn’t hurt for you in particular to get in touch- you have history, an emotional connection AND a CZcams channel. It not only sounds like a good episode for him (because he could probably use a break from current events) but a potential collab, straight up.
and to be fair its our hobby they should service us aka what we want not what their marcketing statagy team what us to buy its our space not theirs soory im ranting just pissed at dart zone prime time for pulling hasbro tactics
I need to add here that the $600 filing fee is just to get us in the door, the actual trial looks like it will cost tens of thousands of dollars, so this is a wildly expensive process with no guarantee of winning.
We were so happy to see Dart Zone take an early interest in the hobbyspace that we let them in no questions asked. Now they’re reminding us that they are still a company and maybe we can’t always trust them to have our best interests in mind. I would very much support a pushback to make sure they know this isn’t a guaranteed win, but do admit it is not a pretty path ahead.
The question is whether the cost after the initial filing will be worth the message sent
$600 sent. Fight it.
Thank you for being so supportive, it'll go right back to you if we don't move forward
I feel like no one, no company should own the term "blaster tag". Thank you for your passion about this.
That's how I feel, but it's looking like it'll be otherwise
This feels like when the Fine Bros tried to trademark the React style of videos.
That was definitely an oof moment.
This is ridiculous. Thank you for bringing awareness to it Jang. Shall we Rally the Horde?! I'm down to Rally!
Whether it's rallying to defend the term, or rallying to bring the community together to find a term we can all use, I appreciate it
Yes
Well I think as a hobby we could easily raise $600 some blasters are even that expensive. But I think if we want to go that route we should probably start a crowd fund to raise a few thousand for potential legal fees, and maybe a legal consultant team. Additionally BTA is the only time I really see blaster tag being used in any semi official capacity by our hobby. I feel like it hasn't been used much so far. If we do go the route of defending the term I think we should use the opportunity to finally agree upon a term for this hobby and if we successfully defend it start using the term much more frequently have college clubs add it into their names and things like that
I agree it'd be nice to see the community have one term to use for the hobby, and you're right this one hasn't been the most widespread, which is why I wanted to hear from everyone on this.
i agree but f it as a community we know what to do , just go in house and coin another term
Seriously... Why GAF, if it's not to prevent some kind of financial gain or monetization.
When has using the term "Nerf" ever been a problem. Hasbro does own "NERF", but I've only seen issues with using the term "Nerf" when idiots add the word "Official" to their social medias and affiliated groups.
Any statement of policy, including an irrevocable agreement for pubic use are unreliable once there is a change of policy. We need to either dispute it or abandon the term.
That's a good point
I've learned a thing or two by speaking to a few trademark attorneys in recent days. I am on board with the pushback movement. Count me in for any help you may need.
We've been talking over things, gonna send an email your way
Thanks for informing us. I'm sure Dart Zone ( or their Parent Company) will be watching this vid and reading the comments, so I can gladly let them know that I am boycotting them from now on because of this. I know it won't make a difference to their bottom line but out of principle I am doing it. TBH I haven't seen anything from them since the first DZ pro that could beat what was coming out of Worker since and presently.
I'm not sure they'll see this video, or if it would change anything if they did unfortunately
I don't know that I could help with any funds but I support the idea of taking on Dart Zone! Wishing you luck.
Yah unfortunately big money companies get to bend the rules in that regard that the rest of us normally people can’t and it’s frustrating to see them do this and taint their reputation with us
Unfortunately I can't dismiss my lack of pushing harder for the trademark to protect it, so it's on me as well
@@Jangular well to be fair it’s like you thought it wouldn’t have been an issue your not psychic none of us are no one could have seen this coming and with it coasting so much just to basic object to them getting the trade mark there really isn’t much we as a community can do right now unless we all get the money together but I think even then it probably wouldn’t be enough the system at large doesn’t seem to care if there isn’t enough money being thrown at the problem and the vast majority of us wouldn’t be able to afford to help which is also frustrating given the current financial crisis most of us are dealing with
I just buy dart guns to plink with safely. I really think dart tag is more like the name of a game. Like Hide and Seek. I have no idea if you can trademark hide and seek but i feel like it would be kinda weird to do so cuz its a super general and known game
I thought it was too general as well, but I guess not unfortunately
File. You might not win, but make it clear we aren't happy. If they want our trade, they need to be more sensitive to our feelings.
Looking into the cost overall, because the $600 is just to get in the door
They done fricked it up
It's frustrating to see for sure
I wonder what Dart Zone’s parent company’s intention are? Do they plan on using that in their marketing? Clearly owning the trademark would allow them to try to legally prevent other people from using the term, but they might decide not to open anything legal. In any case I’m glad that we have the ability to protest this trademark and I hope this effort isn’t fruitless.
I commented on a different video that this gives the same vibe of "use only official Nerf darts"
I really hope they don't start going down the same path as Nerf
I hope the same for sure
You ROCK
I would've rocked if I'd pushed the trademark harder the first time instead of thinking it was safe
@@JangularYou still rock trying to make it work. No use lamenting the past, there is still time.
If there's any way to financially support the cause, I and others would be glad to help.
Fart Zone being Fart Zone, shocker. something something, corportations arent your friends
Definitely something we have to remember
its frustrating.
Like you I was hoping Dartzone were working with us in the hobby.
Definitely frustrating :(
The best thing to do in my opinion would be to set up a GoFundMe or similar campaign, to allow anyone to easily donate to the same space. The community I know would be willing to support this cause, if not financially, then at least by spreading the word.
It's something that's being discussed, I just need to figure out what the expected overall cost and if viable or not. Right now it's looking like tens of thousands of dollars, which is just excessive.
I am not comfortable with Dart Zone appropriating the term "Blaster Tag" for business purposes. I agree with you that your filing set a presidence that should have stopped this from moving forward. There are two options that the hobby can follow to oppose the appropriation of the term. The first is to file against it and see the process through to its conclusion. The second is to for lack of a better term "boycott" Dart Zone and its various products. The saying "money talks" exists for a reason, maybe it time to swing the "big stick".
I absolutely dropped the ball by not pushing to acquire the trademark harder years ago and thinking it was safe, so this is as much on me as it is them.
Dartsoft is another established term ;)
I am perhaps of the inclination that really, it's just a name. One of the strengths of the hobby in general is for things to adapt to conditions and even if the term can't be legally used, something else will replace it.
And potential silver lining to all this is Dart Zone doing the advertising spending to promote the hobby :)
There is a business in Australia who trademarked the term "Gelsoft" wouldn't be surprised if someone trademarks "Dartsoft" eventually.
Dartsoft is an option, but I've had a lot of opposition to it after talking about it years ago. True we'll have to replace it with something and be adaptive.
it was discussed but was to close to AirSoft which lots of 'nerfers' what to stay as far away from as possible..
Alternative name ideas:
Foam tag
Hobby tag
Blast tag
BTA tag
Natcho mamas blaster tag
Noodle tag because darts are like lil mini pool noodles
We're gonna have to figure something out it looks like
@@Jangular indeed, at least we can get really fun and creative with it
I think it should be fought.
Have you reached out to Dart Zone and/or Prime Time Toys directly?
When they initially filed we got a response as mentioned but there didn't seem to be any interest in making it available for use.
Blastersports is still there and ready to be used...even if it isn't a favorite!
That's definitely an option, thanks for the reminder
@@Jangular still sucks they’re trademarking it.
Maybe start using Foam Tag instead but they can spend $ on all sorts of related terms to the hobby; dart, ball, disc etc.
Yeah there's more options we can consider as well on this
Magnifique mine Friend who I have yet to meet Ea in Nerf?
At the end of the day it’s all about money.
Money is a powerful thing unfortunately
i will no longer do business with dartzone
Let's spread awareness of this. Permission to share this on the subreddit?
My thoughts on this is that they (Dart Zone) is planning to compete with Nerf Pro (because Nerf's endgame with Stryfe X is to have "Nerf Ball). Whatever they're planning as a game we will only see at least a year from now if their application goes through I think. What's wrong about this is whatever gameplay they're planning they have all this time to think of literally anything else as a name and yet they decide to take "blaster tag"; even with knowledge that the community have already used this as a term to describe playing and flinging foam. It really reeks of betrayal to us after all these years propping their brand up only to be stabbed in the back like this. It feels like it in my opinion.
I honestly am interested in this because remember years ago I think before the lockdowns we were just discussing as a community what to call what we do and I remember it fondly because the only other option was "Dart Soft" mainly suggested by our friends down under in Australia. I honestly don't like that term because I don't like playing second fiddle to airsofters and trust me: you don't want to feed the already inflated ego of the airheads that play airsoft that thinks we're a bunch of adults who refuse to grow up.
Go ahead and share it wherever, and I agree I'm not the biggest fan of dartsoft as a term either, my mind changed shortly after we did the podcast on it and we never revisited it like intended.
I think that the term is soo generic that if it did get approved it have to do with someone having been personally been talked to by a company rep. Not shady stuff just plain access.
This changes my opinion of Dartzone and parent company. That's overreach and not unique enough for a company that is younger than our community to claim, it's an insulting money grab not an adoption.
Like here is the thing you put this in front of an official and actually have to hear both sides I don't think Dartzone would have a case.
The precedent that you have established by having used the term in an official capacity for an official event is more cause to either award it to your Blaster Tag organization or allow it to exist unregistered.
I personally have been mulling over the terms Soft Foam Sports, Soft Ballistic Sports, ect to fully capture all the different gametypes and devices that get used.
I'm with you on trying to find good options to switch to
What about foam dart tag?
That's an option, but there's always concern with dart tag due to the nerf dart tag line years ago
Foam Tag.
Use it.
Fight it. This is ridiculous that they come into our hobby and try to block us from using our own terminology. It's like you give your friend your Netflix login info and they use it to change your password.
We've been looking into our options on this for sure
ive just subscibered to ur channel because of this issue , i agrre with u , its bad its a corparate thing , hopefully dart zone/ prome time are trying to coin a term , like nerf of nothing , its easy we just use a different term
The most likely outcome is us having to use a different term unfortunately
@@Jangular yup but end of the day it's or hobby not their we are the target demographic so all there doing is putting a black mark in their brand trying to owne a free sport
UBT : Ultimate Blaster Tag?
FDT : Foam Dart Tag?
I don't think terms still containing the previous terms would work?
added sad its shows the corapate stucture of using our generic terms to own them then think the speack as us im f king angery
Welcome to the club. Sacks of shit keep getting really fucking close to copyrighting the G Major scale. It's so hard to watch those trials; I just can't stop cringing. History repeats itself. 😓
That is a surprising thing to know is trying to be copyrighted
takes a glass of water lol
You can (not) have blaster tag. 🚔
welp dartsoft
make a crowd funding source right now. Today. Don’t wait a second. And I will donate $100 plus share with my audience and I think others will do same. If you act quickly, we may yet be able to show them that we won’t roll over
It's an option, we likely will need more than the $600 which is one of my concerns
I wouldn’t be opposed to raising money to combat this
There does seem to be some interest in the idea
Give Dart zone the love and money.. then they Nerf themselves out. And saying it opposite of normal. Honestly let’s come up with something they hate. BLASTERGUN KILLTAG
No way they'd see that coming
This isn't an issue for people in a HOBBY its an issue with people running a business. Don't waste your money on it if your not in the business of making money
That's a fair argument, I wouldn't be making money with the term
That's absolute horseshit. Trademarks are not a concept designed for the protection of profit. They are a CONSUMER protection to prevent fraud and misrepresentation, which us part if why trademark holders are required to vigorously defend marks.
@@abquintic horseshit is business as usual. But it stands that it doesn't effect the hobbyist that knows more than any consumer or the companies that profit off us
@@builderbb8767Then you don't fully understand the situation.
Jang, we should fight it, but I wouldn't wish the stress of a process like that on you. Lawsuits and their like ruin mental health of common people.
That's really kind of you to consider that
I could put 50$ toward this. This is really messed up
I appreciate the willingness to support the idea of pushing back, we've been looking at options and talked to a trademark lawyer, just deciding if it's realistic to do at this point.
never trust a company
Dart soft sadface
Dartsoft as a term has gotten a lot of pushback, so I don't think it would be easy to integrate hobby wide
Welp time to boycott
The term is too generic. Hopefully it gets defeated
and I feel this is a HUGE misstep for "guests in our hobby." It is like they gave us a nice warm hello and then spat in our faces
It definitely doesn't feel great, unfortunately at this point unless we push it to a trial it's going to go through
Serious thought... Why actually care? AtLeast 95% of people seeing this, aren't goingbto care. The term Nerf has become extremely generalized to refer to the hobby. When Hasbro cares to monitor my conversations over the internet, to send Cease&Desist complaints to me, I'll care. BTA is the ONLY time I ever hear/see "Blaster Tag" used. My thoughs have always been that the term excludes melee, and should only be used for your BlasterExclusive tournament stuff I personally vaguely care about. "FoamTag" was my suggestion to replace "Nerf" if that ever really mattered to Any1 other than AntiCorperate people opposing Hasbro.
Is there really any justifiable concern for using the nWord.?.
@@PirateJohnson lmao check that last sentence. And Dart Zone's close involvement is exactly why some are concerned that them getting the trademark could signal that they'd enforce it. Nerf enforces theirs typically on a larger scale like for Jared's Epic _ battles.
This is why I made this video, to get the views of others so it's not just mine.
We cannot reliably use the term in commerce ( promoting events, clubs, etc. ) without risk
@@abquintic , You can't use the term in naming an event... I get that. Does any corporate concern ever occur when you have the event or talk about it, when the term is used, though. I'm just saying it's like if you sell SnowCone that have MtnDew as an ingredient, PepsiCo. Isn't gonna want you to plaster the building you're selling from with big official TradeMarked logos. Doesn't seem UnReasonable. At the point your MenuBoars has MtnDew listed as a flavor, the chances of any1 caring at an official capacity is likely gonna be less than 0.001%.
I don’t think we should be OK with it. I honestly think that this would be a great case to contact @LegalEagle about.
Probably a bit small for his recognition, but fair thought
@@Jangular Genuinely think it wouldn’t hurt for you in particular to get in touch- you have history, an emotional connection AND a CZcams channel. It not only sounds like a good episode for him (because he could probably use a break from current events) but a potential collab, straight up.
and to be fair its our hobby they should service us aka what we want not what their marcketing statagy team what us to buy its our space not theirs soory im ranting just pissed at dart zone prime time for pulling hasbro tactics
Signal boost in case @beretnerf 's post was lost in the noise.
@World_foam_alliance
@lordDraconical
@WalcomS7
The unfortunate irony here