Your 3D Printer Stinks.
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2023
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Fumes. Smells. Call them what you like. Should we sleep in a room with a printer? (no, we shouldn't!). How bad are they? Can we know? Can we do anything? Can I answer literally ANY of these questions??
LINKS:
Buy a Creality K1 or K1 Max (affiliate link) : shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=236481...
The CDC has given an advice poster for this very subject (also covers Resin) www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2020-1...
One case study of many: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Adafruit IO: io.adafruit.com/
Ikea sensor: www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/vindstyr...
hack ikea sensor: github.com/oleksiikutuzov/IKE...
Ikea sensor internals datasheet: sensirion.com/media/documents...
Pimoroni stuff: shop.pimoroni.com/products/bm...
uploaded code: working on it
2nd channel / @lostincircuits
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
It would be interesting to see some testing on how effective filters are at reducing particle (hepa, activated carbon, etc)
yes - I agree
@@LostInTech3D Nevermoore did quite good investigation about that topic, obviously it can be biased since they sell carbron.
Ive worked with chemicals all my life. I was doing carbon fiber work with resin 16+ years ago (good lord im old) and from all the exposure i became very sensitive to smells and tastes. I can tell you for certain you dont want to print with the printer in the same room as you unless you have a enclosure and its properly vented to the outdoors with a filter so youre not blowing that crap into the atmosphere. Please take care of yourselves. This is a manufacturing process, thats what youre doing and it needs to be treated as such. Youre heating a chemical composition to reform it. Its going to off gas and youre blowing that around. Just be safe be smart do your research and understand what youre working with and how that material would be handled in a professional industry setting not just a hobbyist setting.
I created a print room using a grow tent with air scrubbers, an oversized air purifier and an outside exhaust ....probably overkill...but it was fun. :D
thats the spirit!
Hooray for indoor air quality!
Had a small dog pass away when I first got into fdm printing in pla and I always wondered if I killed her with the fumes the vet said she died of neurological reasons and I heard something about these things emitting neurotoxins.. I loose sleep over it at times and miss her every day. She had health issues and was an older dog at 12 years old so hopefully it was just her time to go. RIP Maya my beautiful doggie daughter.
If it was just pla , petg and tpu you are good.
@@williamk52 thank you for reassuring me and yes those were the materials I printed in since they were considered to be safe at that time
@@gotmilkbutt never got into printing abs due to not having an enclosure around my printer and it being located in my drafty basement
12 is a considerable age for a dog. Props that your dog had a long and healthy life ❤
what was the breed of the dog
It would also be interesting to see how the print temperature affects the results.
You should definitely look into filters, both HEPA for fine particles and carbon filters for VOCs. The carbon filters work well for a lot of things, even solder fumes. I have an enclosure I built with both types of filters and a fan and when printing ABS with the fan in you can’t smell anything outside of the enclosure, even at the outlet. Before I had the enclosure when printing with nylon the inside of my nose would feel like it was burning despite not smelling anything, just putting a fan and carbon filter near it stopped that completely, so they definitely do work.
Edit: another good idea with an enclosure is having a fan circulating the air inside it through a filter. That way you don't lose warm air and you stop VOCs or particles from building up.
yep plan to check carbon filters in next vid. HEPA will be of limited use against UFPs (not totally useless but not up to scratch). I've not printed much nylon personally so I cant imagine the smell, if there's no smell that's somehow even worse!
@@LostInTech3D HEPA will be of use against the pm2.5 particles you measured though and filters can work for particles smaller than they are rated for too, they just aren't as effective.
There was no smell when I used the nylon, just a burning in the inside of my nose. It was Overture easy nylon so I don't know if it was due to additives to make it easier to print or something but just a PC fan and a carbon filter very close was enough to eliminate it.
@@LostInTech3D HEPA actually handles UFPs quite well. It's not quite as good at some medium particle sizes, but still generally effective. The easy intuition of "smaller particles -> harder to capture" actually isn't true. There have been several studies on this. Sentry Air's write up "A discussion on 3D printers, UFP emission, and HEPA filtration" is a pretty great starting point. The paper "Experimental evaluation of personal protection devices against graphite nanoaerosols: fibrous filter media, masks, protective clothing, and gloves" is also pretty great. My layman's understanding from looking through a few papers and write-ups on this is that modern electrostatic filtration material (used in stuff like n95 masks and HEPA filters) actually has an easier time capturing extremely small or large particles. There's a range of moderately sized particles where they don't do quite as well, but they still work fine. For example, the paper "How efficiently can HEPA purifiers remove priority fine and ultrafine particles from indoor air?" has some data/discussion on this. They show that the effective clean air delivery rate does drop somewhat for particles in the 200-300nm range, but the filter does still work for particles in that range. What HEPA doesn't do is address VOCs, which is why so many people use them together with activated carbon.
@@jabberwocktechnologies I'm glad you mentioned this. I recall Brownian motion being the reason UFPs are easier to capture than moderately-sized particles?
@@theglowcloud2215 yes, the idea is that in that range of particle sizes Brownian motion is the dominant effect on how the particles move around. This makes them more likely to come into contact with the filtration media. Van der Waals forces make it so that once they hit the filtration media they stay there. If I remember right the paper "Experimental Evaluation of Personal Protection Devices..." that I mentioned in the last comment has a nice description of what's going on too.
Ah yes, staring at raw data and listening to "human" jazz music, my favorite activity as a homosapien.
Regarding the filament loading ppm increase, printers usually push a lot more filament loading than printing, but also I think that the position of your printing bed in relation to the position of the sensor was screwing with your measurements. The bed while printing is much closer to the nozzle shielding the sensor from the fumes, and when loading you had the bed way lower. Also since hot fumes rise, I think that the best placement for the sensor was on top of the printer, or somewhere else in the room for measuring the room particulate and VOCs increase in the room
yeah noted - where it was filmed was broadly convenient, rather than functional, compared to the 3 weeks of measuring in various positions.
MOx gas (VOC) sensors (like those found in any consumer-level air quality monitor) currently suffer from major drawbacks that make them unreliable for any purpose other than a very broad estimation.
- cross-sensitivity/selectivity (not being able to discern between gases because only resistivity of the sensing plate is being measured)
- low stability across repeated readings in the same environment
- difficulty of effective calibration, which is repeatedly necessary over time and any time a change in environment occurs
- very high sensitivity to humidity (and, by extension, temperature) which must be compensated for with another connected and accurate sensor
- despite issues with cross-sensitivity/selectivity, they are ironically very poor at detecting some compounds which ARE harmful, depending on the pore size and chemistry of the sensing plate
As you said, they rely on changes in conductivity in order to estimate an increase or decrease in VOC concentration in the air. Because of that, any air monitor reporting a concentration for VOC in ppm or ug/m^3 is already highly suspect. More reputable sensor manufacturers like Sensirion have already started switching to VOC Indices that try to make it clearer that the readings are only comparisons to a recent baseline (usually ~1 day to 2 weeks).
Obviously making cheap, reliable gas sensors available to everyone will hugely benefit humanity. Consequently, there's a ton of research and investment into making these sensors more accurate and discerning. I really hope that we continue to see fast improvement in these sensors. However, right now anyone using them to make a point about gas quantities and toxicity of materials really needs to provide a HUGE asterisk.
PS - as mentioned by a couple other commenters, AI analysis of MOx gas sensor readings is pretty promising right now. Bosch even provides a library for calibrating and training models based on known gases with their BME688 sensor.
Amazing, thank you for this PSA! As I might be building a small printfarm, it’s definitely of interest to me. Can’t wait for your TPU findings!
Its good that he has covered this, but its not that scientific per se - more so informative.
Personally I have mine in my shed. I do think things like carbon filters do help though.
(Well I know they do as I have them and also a meter that can display VOC I use occasionally to check the levels). My only concession is a V 0.1 in the house with a nevermore that I use occasionally in a well ventilated room that people dont generally go in for quick and small prints with PLA only)
what is PSA?
@@paulhamacher773 a Public Service Announcement
@@paulhamacher773 a Public Service Announcement
I have k1s printing abs enclosed up with a 4” ducted fan similar to what you’re showing exhausting the air out a duct in a window, can’t tell i’m printing at all sitting right next to them. Also have built bentoboxes inside the enclosures
Great video. I had similar concerns when i got into 3d printing so I put my printers in enclosures with carbon filters and in addition installed an air exchange unit in the room to ensure a supply of fresh air to the room.
Ultimately it can't hurt to do that
Opening a window won't help you to get rid of fumes.
If you ever had window open, you'd notice that house ventilation usually works by sucking air in through windows.
So unless you have some abnormal airflow in your house, you'll only spread particles around.
Sure, eventually air will go to air duct or whenever outlet is, but those particles are heavier than air and tend to stay at lower layers and ventilation outlet at the upper side of the house.
yeah you can't really know where the air currents are taking the particles when you just open a window, that was something I never really realised. It would be fascinating to use some coloured smoke or something, and watch it...although I can't say I'd enjoy the mess
@@LostInTech3D No need to use colored smoke even, you can buy cheap fog machine or even rent BIG fog machine
When I bought our Ender 3 v2, I purchased a fabric enclosure and modified it so a bathroom fan exhausted air from the bottom and fresh air (through a filter to diffuse incoming cooler air) from the top. I built a box for the bathroom fan to connect to that pushes air through a HEPA filter, then carbon filters. It's sealed for leaks and the filters easily replaced. We ran the printer once without this and couldn't fathom how people can tolerate the stench. If people cannot smell what these are putting off, they are already compromised health wise from cigarette smoke, air fresheners and perfumes products. It's seriously intense.
If particulates could get stuck in the ventilation shaft they would not be able to get in there to start with.
Or by diffusion ?
Can’t wait for part 2! This Is something thats always on the back of my mind when printing. I recently got a Bambu x1 carbon & that printer has a built in chamber fan with a carbon filter, regardless I added 3 anycubic air purifier inside the enclosure & then added to the back of the chamber fan a hose attachment with a 4inch hvac hose to a enclosure with a room purifier with Hepa filter & carbon sucking in air from the x1 chamber fan vent. I know it might seem like over kill but there just isn’t enough information for me to be feel safe in my room while printing. If I can provide any data I would love to try to contribute to your research being that it’s something that isn’t really talked about too much. Great videos by the way.
first video I've seen from you, subbed only a minute in. It's an area that needs more talking about in 3D printing
So glad to see someone else thinking about this! I'd love more info on indoor air quality and 3d printing! The best setup I've figured out thus far is to run the printer in a relatively low-traffic room together with a HEPA filter. I've been considering trying to rig some kind of corsi-rosenthal box inspired enclosure, but it's probably overkill. From the reading I've done, HEPA filters still do a great job of picking up UFPM. For really small stuff (
Source on the comments about UFP emissions and VOC emissions for various filament types: "Emissions of Ultrafine Particles and Volatile Organic Compounds from Commercially Available Desktop Three-Dimensional Printers with Multiple Filaments" by Azimi et al.
Excellent, I'll check that out
Nice comparisons! I personally miss PC in the comparison as this is a filament that is also widely used yet not well documented, and for the Bambu lab X1C I would suggest looking into the Bento Box that removes VOC's from the air inside the enclosure. This should help mitigate a lot of the VOC's escaping into the air. The Bento Box contains both a HEPA filter and activated carbon.
Yeah I dropped the ball, I have a whole reel of PC
HTPLA or PLA+ as well as it's really very common now a days and includes many other compounds besides pure PLA.
PLZ make more videos, you're one of the good ones.
p.s. Thanks for all the prior info, helped me a ton while getting into this whole enviroment
appreciate the comments! I am trying to speed up the process, I got some good stuff in the works, it's really annoying how much time I spend editing vs doing anything else.
Thank you for the video, great study!
Air filtration is key. But you can build a very effective air filter using a decent box fan and 4-5 HVAC filters with activated carbon for ~$100 or so. Even a pretty cheap fan can get up to 20ACH, which is more than enough to remove most pollutants.
I wish they sold colour changing carbon that would show you when it's expired
Oh man, thanks soooo much for this. And on top of making a brilliant video about a subject that is soooo important, you ALSO corrected you pronunciation of Ikea! BRILLIANT!!! A tip of the cap to you. And a top in the hat for a beer, coffee, or cup'o'tea :)
Haha which IKEA was correct the second? Glad it was of some use, hopefully we'll narrow down ep 2 to get more specific information
Ikeya!
So that a big plus into "IDEX, AMS and other automatic multifilament solutions" vs manual filament changes then. My current setup still requires removing the purge amount by hand and pressing a button to continue the print.
Could just hold your breath 😁
@@LostInTech3D *gasps*
_slides down slowly_
Super interesting... Can you try the same test in resin printers?? I use air filters with them, but I wonder if they are still enough.
I plan to do some tests with resin but also check out makertales, he just made a video on it
I'm new to fdm 3d printing and am still on my first spule of anycubic highspeed pla (I've done sla printing before).
Without measuring: Both methodes significandly worsen air quality. I've put my printers in a seperate room and run an exhaust to outside. Without the fan the air quality drops massivly even during 30 min prints.
Tank you for putting in the effort to measure this. I'd also think that the values differ not only between plastic types, but also between manufacturers due to additives.
it absolutely does, there are some real stinkers out there, which is why measuring ultimately only gets you so far, and evacuating air is the right answer.
I'm not sure how the Pimoroni Enviro+ HAT for the Raspberry Pi compares to the IKEA monitor in terms of accuracy, but I built one with a PMS5003 sensor to monitor my 3D printer's output and piped the data to Grafana. I'm still testing how much crap the printer spews out with a Honeywell HEPA filter nearby and without. There hasn't been nearly enough research done on this subject.
yep the PMS5003 is a decent sensor, it's the one I used a year ago. It doesn't go down to UFPs though, so it won't really register much with PLA, at least I found that.
Thanks so much, very interesting testing you've started to do! Why not test what is detectable if you directly exhaust from the enclosure? I actually just bought a tent enclosure for my ender 3, an inline exhaust fan, and located the printer near my window. I'm planning to connect the enclosure to the fan and the fan to an AC window exhaust insert. My hope is that's the best anyone could do at home in a small place. Thanks!
yeah if you exhaust from the actual enclosure then you're really gonna have no issues at all, as you're creating a negative pressure in there.
Just some heads up, that meter from IKEA has been measured as pretty inaccurate in the testing I have seen. I would share links but I don’t want to get flagged.
It uses a LED and not Laser for particle measurements. Not only this, but their measurements for particle size are much wider than normal standards. The main article you will find when looking up reviews of this meter will give more detail.
I only say this because I have been doing a ton of research on this for fumes and VOC’s. The companies I have talked to have said that most consumer meters are useless for tVOC as they measure too wide of a scale and can be fooled by anything from rubbing alcohol to even people wearing cologne. You need one testing for specific types to be accurate.
like most things, the more money you throw at it, the better the results, before you know it you're making a lab
Do voc's just disappear.. e.g. if left in a room printing with windows closed would they still be there 12hrs later ?
Also are there filters you can buy, e.g. if it's not convenient to ventilate to outside, could you have an enclosed filter with a certain type of filter ?
Thank you
they don't "disappear" but there are various ways they stop being in the air, so effectively, yes, in terms of breathing them. This is one way enclosures work - by making the particles hang around long enough to stick to the inside or react with something else to _do random chemistry stuff_.
It's tremendously difficult to filter out a vast range of unknown VOCs, not impossible, but difficult. Carbon is the current best generalist at this, although the nevermore guy says he's working on something else that sounded interesting.
I would look into the bsec library from borschfor the bme680... it categorizes and quantifies the vocs more and its made for Arduino so you would get more detailed calibrated data. Thanks for the video as well and I would love to see a video on the health effects of various vocs from printing on health with studies linked as well as redoing the test with and without the filters with the bsec integration. Another test idea is to test print temp vs voc increase above ambient, keep up the good work!
i would also add a fixed Fourier transform on top of the values from the library to stabilize everything
12:56 Aircons do NOT remove air from the room... it circulates air only
I am! 👀
More than the smell, i notice discomfort in my throat when I'm printing ABS and and the nevermore's carbon is too old. Eventually i get a headache. Happens less with ASA. I have some SGP30 sensors from pimoroni waiting in a box for me to do similar VOC measurements, but life happens and time is scarce. I'm also worried about the effects of BPA coming out of polycarbonate, people rarely mention that.
Yep those are documented effects of styrene exposure.
I work in a laboratory where, among many other things, we also measure VOC and specify the most common ones. I've always wanted to take a measurement for myself, I'll see if I can do that in the next few weeks.
Will report if anyone is interested.
However, for these health reasons, I only print with PLA.
That's would be awesome
I've found that PM meters can be heavily influenced by humidity in the air. What's the baseline value before engaging the printer?
Are you running the fans in the back during the printing? If so, could those be pulling the fumes/microplastics out the back instead of out the front where your monitor is?
Rear and side were off 👍
What makes the most PM2.5? Soldering! Use extraction if soldering a lot, or a fan to dilute it.
absolutely, although solder is usually not long exposure, but the hint is that it literally makes your eyes sting lol
I’ve never had any form of smoke come out when loading filament and I have tried many types, I’ve never heard of it happening either.
you maybe have, it's mostly visible to me as I have studio lighting on - try shining a strong beam and you probably will see it.
Thank you! I've been wondering about this for a while now.
Can we come up with a way to load the filament differently, so it doesn't smoke as much?
honestly...I am not entirely sure why it smokes. I suppose...maybe loading it at a lower temp, but yeah, its a phenomenon I can't currently explain
The wake up call i needed... thanks dude!
And this is why i have an oversized hepa/carbon filter combo air-purifier going all the time im printing, next to my printer, and a bit after that as well.
PLA smell good ABS smell bad
Cool data though, thanks for the video!
im curious on how effective a setup like the Bambu lab X1 is in reducing the VoC and particles with the carbon filter. Downside using the stock settings is that while using the smelly stuff the fan is usually off because usually the toxic stuff tends to warp
hmm...true
I run a hepa filter in my printer room. Room
Is roughly 150 sq feet. The filter I use is made for 750 sq feet. Never have a had health issues from printing. I have copd and I’m not bothered at all.
A lone data point for what it's worth... Printing generic cheap PLA reduces the life of my disposable contact lenses by 30%, if I am near the printer while it's printing.
An aside: This video has many interlace artifacts, which seems like a leftover from a previous century. Does not every camera produce progressive frames these days?
that's actually a little worrying!
Yeah I wish I'd noticed the interlacing (no idea?!), it's too late to reupload now. I'll watch for it in future. It's not the camera!
Great videos as always!
Any chance you would make more tests with adding a cheap activated charcoal filter with a fan to see how useful they are.
I don't know about cheap because it oxidizes parts, but I'll be going over all this in next ep, for sure
Really cool video! Please do an air-quality-sensor hacking video! This would be super fun!
Is the smoke during manual extrude just due to the part cooling fan not being on? So the nozzle and etruded plastic isn't getting any cooling that it might normally.
the nozzle is temperature controlled but the filament might not cool down as quickly as when it's printed onto the last (cool) layer, thus having way more time to emit particles into the air. Also half of the surface area of the squished extruded plastic line is not even exposed to the air that way
I wonder if the nozzle is hotter than the place the thermistor is at. I don't know, it's a whole rabbit hole right there to try to figure it out
And then most of us have parts fan off during the first layers, and that's when printer owners watch the lines go down with their noses very close to the action.
in the clip where the K1 is printing at 2:23, is the spring steel sheet lifting in the corners ?!
Yeah it was, this is a thermal contraction thing with straight sided boxes, I'm surprised the bed didn't let go first, lots of forces there. The solution is a brim, but I forgot to add one.
I'd love to see you try these with the Nevermore v6 carbon filter
Next video 😁
I feel like you should try to get a better voc sensor (or hack the ikea one if it is decent?). The topic is really interesting but without reliable data I think taking any conclusions will be difficult.
I don't think they get more reliable than the BME680 - the issue is calibration.
Living with someone who is sensitive to smells and particles, we have become more aware of this. I think there are long term health issues and 3d printing at home is still new enough, that we just don't know. Even if you don't smell anything, you are still breathing plastic particles. Putting things in your lungs just seems like a bad idea.
To make everything safe, all of my printers are fully enclosed in the garage and have created negative pressure air flow with an exhaust fan attached a dust hose venting outside the door and I still think I can do better.
how good is a carbon filtration really? im looking into starting to print abs with my p1p, but if the stink is to bad i wont be able to use it, can a carbon filter fan solution fix that maybe?
looking into that in pt 2
Carbon will remove reactive chemicals from air/water, the problem is mostly time & volume.
This is something you'll see with water filtration, basically nothing in a reasonable size will actually remove dangerous substances, but volatile compounds (which are the ones we can smell & taste, for the most part) obviously react with the carbon & are neutralised much more effectively.
You 'might' have some luck with an extractor system based on bubbling the fumes through water.
An ion purifier might also be effective, but I can't find a straight answer anywhere.
Ozone would definitely work, but then you have to deal with ozone.
HEPA filters & venting to atmosphere seems like the safest option from actual reading
Don't know about K1, but X1C when loads PLA heats nozzle to 250C versus normal 220C when printing. Not sure why, maybe for lower viscosity and better clen up? It could be 250 is a bit too much for PLA and these fumes are really something unhealthy
Yeah noticed that on the bambu. it stinks too.
you can use a bubbler to filter the air also
interesting idea
I love that smell! But I also love how it smells in the copy room in the office.
I have pet birds and birds are notoriously sensitive to VOCs. I never print ABS or ASA (I've heard enough people complain what a pain those can be anyways) but otherwise it's only stuff like PLA or PET-derivative (PET/PETE bottle filament/ PETG) or anything that doesn't give off a ton of fumes. That, and I never let the birds into the same room as the printer when it's running. The printer is upstairs behind a closed door and the birds remain downstairs.
Birds are also super sensitive to ptfe so I'd recommend making sure all your printers have all metal hotends
bird up
@@LostInTech3D First upgrade I did
Carbon does work, and is used by car painters, and others. But what many don't seem to understand is that carbon has a shelf life of 6months, and once exposed to air carbon actually is only effective from 2-6 hours, and then needs to be replaced. Yes I said 2 to 6 hours. Car painters go through loads of the stuff to stay safe. So I wish some one would do tests in the 3d printer world. I used to work closely with car painters. Carbon is not the magic filter many seem to think it is. I know some only replace their carbon after months of use.
Yeah, carbon also absorbs VOCs indiscriminately so if you're cooking, you're expiring your filters
Nano! Nice to see my favourite editor.
Great work on this one lost! No tomatoes this time lol. 👍
I've never seen smoke while loading or manually extruding on a 3d printer even with fans off.. what exactly is the temperature their load macro sets it to..?
You can slowly load PLA at like 180 and ABS at 190, no real point in going higher until the print is actually Running IMO. Printer weirdness aside, good information all the same!
Yeah it's almost always around 220+
From my experience such cheap TVOC meters can give some comparison, but they're also big guessing machines. It would be interesting to compare results with more calibrated industrial meters that can also distinguish formaldehyd and others. Not cheap, but maybe some company would sponsor such a video by lending a device.
will the video about the carbon filters and stuff still come?
I think so - I'm waiting to hear more about the new nevermore filters.
@@LostInTech3Dhey just wanted to tell you that I really loved this video and I would love to see more content like this. This is a super important area of 3D printing that isn’t talked about enough in the community. I just subscribed to your channel and will happily await the sequel vid :)
09:34 killed me🤣Ivan Miranda sure does need some voc solution
i got a printer in my room and a fan i print PLA is that bad ?
Great video. I love homemade science. I'd like to scale up my home based print farm. The plan is to enclose the area under the deck to make a separate room where the 3D printers would live, with the CNC laser if I ever finish building it. I could harvest the parts and restart the printers a couple of times per day and ventilate to the outside before entering. FDM 3D printer micro particulates are a serious concern but I'm even more concerned about VOCs from resin printers. Klipper would be a huge help in remotely managing a small print farm on the opposite side of the house.
I'm doing resin in a bit and I'm planning to check out the levels there, hopefully
@@LostInTech3D - Testing resin printing, you'll probably give your VOC meter cancer.
Did you ever connect this to grab the data from it? The Ikea sensors are apparently supported in home assistant now including the voc index.
yeah I was peripherally aware of this but their hub ain't cheap and I already have a hue hub so I'm mulling it over.
@@LostInTech3D You don't actually need a DIRIGERA Hub. Any zigbee usb stick connected to the Home Assistant server will do.
I am using a Sonoff Zigbee 3.0 usb stick which I got for about $15 and I just picked up the Ikea Vindstyrka and paired it.
Out of the box it doesn't support the VOC reading but there is a github PR by just-oblivious to add the VOC index to Home Assistant and the zha-device-handlers repos. With a few quick modifications I got it up and running with the VOC Index report.
What is up with the weird deinterlacing artifacts? Is it just on playback, or was the recorded video actually interlaced?
yeah davinci resolve hates me, I am not sure what happened there.
@@LostInTech3D hahah alright. Shit happens. Good that you're aware of it though! I hope you can get it figured out.
given the point on cooking, it should also be noted that the particular compounds in the particulate matters. Assessing an acceptable level of risk requires further research. The definition of pollution in this case more or less being anything airborne.
Hepa filter units setup near printers are likely a good precaution.
Agreed, although gas cooking has other nasty surprises that HEPA won't catch.
@lLost in Tech have you seen these Airthings-292 Wave Mini? Similar to what you mentioned and has an app with graphs.
Yeah it's been mentioned to me
I have an ender3 v2, I got it about a year a go and my place is very small, I had to put it, in my bedroom on my work desk next to my bed, so you would imagine that sometimes I sleep right next to my printer while printing large prints, I mainly print in pla, so I thought its not that big of a deal, but I also do some pla welding without wearing a respirator even though that I have one, and also there is a decently sized window in my room but I never actually use it, Now I realize how stupid I was, Now I will make an enclosure for it, and I will start using my window more, and No more pla welding without a respirator, I would actually love to see a video about how bad pla welding can be for your health from you.
I think small things can probably make a big diff. I don't really do any welding so I can't help there, but I don't see many people wearing respirators
Have you tested the PM.25 detector with steam, can it differentiate steam from smoke?
It probably can't, but that's not steam.
@@LostInTech3D I just thought maybe there was a combination of both, but obviously you have the benefit of actually doing the experiment. I was just curious. Thanks for replying.
3:40 "but HDPE took a very, very long time to clear out of the machine". Yet HDPE doesn't appear in the graph that is on screen while you are saying this.
yeah because I meant HIPS. (corrected on screen - or...oh...the caption vanished...davinci resolve really hates me right now)
I wonder if you could test the duration that HEPA filters stay effective...
HEPA - sorta forever, it's complicated, they get more efficient as they get blocked, but the airflow reduces (to my understanding) - what I think people need to know more is the carbon filter expiry which is much much shorter, and should be easy to monitor, in theory.
To be honest, I don't know if I fully agree. Sure, 0 VOCs detected is ideal. But, I am sure there is a threshold of what will actually cause irritation or issues for a user. If there is a threshold how does the rate of VOC emission from printing filaments compare? Is the total quantity of VOCs consumed a factor; PLA over 2 days vs ABS over 6 hours, etc. To say all levels of VOCs are bad feels oddly weird. Alcohol is bad, but consumed in small amounts over a period of time shows little to no adverse response/issues.
You're absolutely right, and there are defined occupational limits. I really want to be able to quantify these amounts, I'm working on it.
I appreciate the use of Human jazz. Way better than Snake Jazz
Tss tss tsss.
Carbon filter is the answer, it removed ABS smell completely for me. Make sure to get proper carbon, the easiest choice is nevermore packages. Would be great to see the tests!
Carbon does work, and is used by car painters, and others. But what many don't seem to understand is that carbon has a shelf life of 6months, and once exposed to air carbon actually is only effective from 2-6 hours, and then needs to be replaced. Yes I said 2 to 6 hours. Car painters go through loads of the stuff to stay safe. So I wish some one would do tests in the 3d printer world. I used to work closely with car painters. Carbon is not the magic filter many seem to think it is. I know some only replace their carbon after months of use.
@@gotmilkbutt on the larger printer(v2.4) I built a filter with large amount of carbon, it delt well with odor for half a year or so. On the small one I replace it once a month.
you should do a test with a carbon filter like "the filter" for voron 2.4
I plan to
Maybe add something to the title. Like just: 'Your 3D Printer Stinks. (Particles it's emitting)'. It might bring more attention, and safety is always a nice topic. I wouldn't know what's that video is about from the title. I just watch your every upload xd
Wow!!! Thank you so much for this video. It certainly enlightened me.
Unbelievable stunning revelations! .. It made me wonder, if all this could have something to do with a mysterious skin allergy I am recently experiencing, could this be possible? Anyone else with a similar problem?
There are sometimes obvious things we all know about, but never think they can affect us...
I started 3D printing about 6 months ago. Since I am a novice, I only work with PLA filament. I really enjoy it! However, more recently I started developing a strange skin rash and irritation, and some swelling, on my face, my hands an a bit on my forearms. Whilst I am still trying to determine the root cause of my problem (medics included), I never imagined it could be related to this! Now, after seeing your video, I realize this may sadly be the possible reason behind it, or one of the reasons anyway, even with PLA. This definitely needs further and deeper investigation.
Meanwhile, since this seems to affect only the skin areas exposed, I am going to start covering completely, using a face shield, long sleeves and gloves to protect me for my upcoming prints and see how it goes.
I would greatly appreciate your views.
Best wishes.
Not likely, but it can't hurt to try exclusion to narrow it down - I would advise ventilating above all else though.
@@LostInTech3D Noted. Thank you again for bringing those health hazards to light. Will advise any progress. Cheers.😊
The greek letter µ (pronounced mu like in municipal)
Do you record interlaced?
not on purpose! something went wrong in the render and I didn't notice
I REALLY REALLY want to see how bad it is to use a food dehydrator for drying filament and making jerky with the same machine but with separate racks & enclosure.
It's easy to say it's bad, but I want to see numbers.
it's probably a bad sign if the jerky tastes of filament haha
@@LostInTech3D I haven't tried the filament yet, but I have sheet metal & welded wire fence to make a rack & enclosure for filament but don't want to do it if it's not safe. But realistically, how bad is it? I mean the dehydrator itself is made of plastic. How does it compare to having an actual filament dryer in the same room as a plate of food or heck, using plastic cookware?
Well, if it's emitting anything...if...then you are looking at inverse (square?) for distance, so the fall off for how much exposure will be pretty large with distance. So being very close, would be not ideal.
One of my biggest issues with the ‘studies’ is that they rarely use a 3D printer at all, rather just burn the plastic and measure the bad stuff… not all that honest but nonetheless it makes all the headlines.
VOC’s can be very bad, but not necessarily especially given the base material’s PLA is created with. Which means the VOC will be present but not necessarily harmful unless burned and the chemicals undergo reactions to create worse compounds… I wouldn’t sweat PLA, ABS on the other hand crosses the threshold of concern because of the chemicals that constitute it before burning. Figuring out chemical composition of smoke is though, so beyond just looking at the chemicals your starting with I wouldn’t recommend spending lots of money on generic particulate readers.
Some exotic filaments are actually deadly poison when heated too high, so I am by no means dismissing this but most hobbyist shouldn’t break the bank venting and air scrubbing PLA. If it contains Styrene, PVC, Kevlar assume it is poisonous and act accordingly no need to measure.
For the rest of us just take the 3D printer out of the kids nursery and into the garage or attic/workshop where it belonged in the first place, done 👍.
PLA itself is fine yes, its bio from corn starch and what not but don’t forget its not naturally purple, so stuff is added to it for colour and strength
Thanks!
Thank you! 🙂
The reason for the difference inside and out is the particles condense
I don't understand your sub count, I feel like your videos are about as good as maker's muse
I clearly need more bird vids
This.
Great video as always mate. Un-dis-anti-ir-regardless of the fumes I just love printing in ABS. My way of harm reduction in having my printer in an air tight (or as good as I can get it) enclosure and leaving the printer closed for a while after the print. My thinking (probably flawed) is the nasty particles will settle and stick to the inner surfaces.
Keep up the good work Sir 👍🇦🇺😊
I thought that logic was flawed too, but the data seems to support _some_ version of your argument. I'm very interested to figure out where the fumes go, because yeah, initial observations look like enclosures help a lot.
Higher temperature and higher extrusion rates explains the spike during loading
Probably that, yeah
loved the Ivan Miranda reference haha
3D printer vs being stuck in traffic. Wonder which is worse.
Traffic I bet.
Pimoroni are selling the BME680 for £12.30 and the garden for £8.58 at the moment.
wow thats cheaper than the bare chip. I heard they got robbed, that sucks.
@@LostInTech3D Yes, I heard about that. Hope they manage to recover what was stolen. I've now got my BEM688 connected to the same Raspberry Pi running OctoPrint and I'm ready for some code.
The irony of watching this while printing ABS-CF next to me. At least I'm actually working on a venting system. Just don't have it up yet. I actually love the smell of wood PLA, but can't stand Nylon.
Haha, hold your breath!
if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound ?
If i cant smell it, does my 3d printer stink?
either way....im not gonna worry about it......
I use a HEPA filter to filter PM2.5 but after seeing this video, I am sad
Running a HEPA filter is still a great idea, generally. There are lots of things hanging around that HEPA filters catch.
Well the smell of woodfire has evolved alongside us to mean cooked food warmth and light. Our brains were litterally able to evolve as rapidly as they did because of wood fire. Your assessment of your neighbor seems as if it may be the inverse.
That's what stopping me from getting a 3d printer.
I take a handful of pills every morning. Today I was running late, and took the pills a minute or two before going out. In the hallway, I burped when I locked my door. A noticeable mist appeared, very similar to seeing your breath on a cold morning. Though perhaps it dissipated quicker. The door was a dark red, otherwise I doubt I would've seen it. I suspect it was the Vitamin D3. Very strange.
Wait what
Bro try to build a bento box . It is a diy 3d print hepa and carbon filter to see how it works
I'm aware of it, I'll see how this all pans out
The fact that there are particulates in the air does not mean they are dangerous for you.
which is why you need to consult the MSDS, right?
Every time I run my 3d printer overnight for more than 2 days, the next day I start a nasty throat infection
no greek letter is called micro :P If you mean: "μ" it's our lower case M and it's called "me" exactly like me. Micro translates as small, so "me micro" means small m. Thanks for the deep dive in the emissions topic!!
I had sarcastic annotations about my, but the editor corrupted them 😞