3D Printing ABS for a Smell Test!
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2020
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Step one: inhale abs fumes
Two minutes later:
This filter is working I cant smell any abs.
Let's inhale more from inside🤣
Hey Joel, I've just entered the world of 3d printing and the wealth of information in your channel has been super helpful. Keep up the great work mate. Thanks for putting your health on the line to satisfy our curiousity 😀😀
Background viewing - Kitboga is in almost all of my B roll audio :P
Love your videos
Kitboga is fantastic so i can 100% see why its B roll audio aha
WTH I just came from a kitboga vid
Some larger industrial printers use a similar system to remove fumes to create an office-friendly system, I'm guessing this will probably catch on for people who have a print farm at home!
That’s cool
Years ago I used to print a lot of large ABS parts, I printed them in a completely sealed foam enclosure that I used to preheat with a hairdryer (The garage temperature was well below 0°C). When the print was finished and it was time to open the enclosure I remember loving the feel of warm air exiting togheter with the distinct ABS smell. I knew it was not good to breath in, but i really loved it
There was a certain Aus brand (who won't be named) that made the most ACRID smelling ABS I had to evacuate the room. Otherwise, I'm super weird and find the smell familiar and friendly... as it was my first filament >_> But still, don't print in the same room you work in!
for abs or with pla is fine?
ABS definitely will off gas as it prints. PLA will emit much less, but it will emit particulates, which is a potential concern for asthmatics. PETG emits the least from what I've heard. Polycarbonate can be downright nasty.
@@MMuraseofSandvich I run a mini air filter next to an ender 3 pro for pla. Don't print in your basement (like I do) if you want ABS. Still recommend an air filter for any print.
Maker's Muse im the same. ABS has a ‘childhood’ smell to me. Reminds me of new toys lol
i have two rolls of aurarum ABS .....
Nice video. I faced this problem before and decided to built a enclosure for my Prusa Mk3s. It reduces the noise and smell level (coal filter) by a lot and prevents warping as well. You might enjoy watching it :)
Great video Joel, I love these kinds of videos. Nothing wrong with that and you can learn from it.
Mythbusters is my favorite thing to watch while doing things.
It’s even better when you are watching something you should not be trying at home.
We run into the same issues with laser engraving. You have to run a filtration unit or vent to the outside. One definite no-no is to engrave any sort of plastic containing Polyvinyl Chloride. The off-gassing of PVC produces poisonous gas that is highly corrosive to the machine not to mebtion what it can do to one's lungs!
The BOFA 1 seems like a cool filter. I can't wait until they release the _BOFA-TheseNuts_
I was rather shocked and impressed and confused that this was the only bofa comment 🤣
I built my printer cabinet large with a little shelf above the printer. I put one of those desktop HEPA air purifiers on the shelf and it's wired up to run while the printer is on plus five minutes after. This way there's no vent holes or fans and I can keep the enclosure soundproof, and you don't lose heat from a print. It just recirculates the air that's already in the cabinet.
I have a BlueAir series 200 air purifier - it's basically just a fan with a filter. Their "smoke stop" filters are the activated charcoal type. If I remember, I set it up next to the printer and that picks up the odour. I can also use it later to destink a room.
I've been 3d printing for about 6 years now and ABS is all I ever used until I got my Prusa MINI earlier this year. I keep my printers in an enclosure I made that has a fan sucking the fumes out straight to the outside. All of this is in the office I spend all day in so I needed to make sure it was well ventilated. Since getting the MINI I've upgraded to all Prusa printers and now use PLA and PETG but ABS is still what I use the most. I would not suggest using an enclosure that didn't vent to the outside and that filter thing seems to suck out too much heat but that may not be an issue for PLA.
As for background noise, I keep youtube open in a tab while I'm working and have either you, Tom, or Angus playing.
If you use the Bufa 1, leave it run a bit after your print completes, air is cleaned before you open the door. It also has the advantage that it pulls fresh air into the enclosure from the leaks around the door and joints so no bad air gets out. I like and the price is not that bad for what you are getting in return. Thanks Joel and Printed Solid.
When I was printing ABS all the time (well 7 hours at a time and 4 days a week) I bought a desktop HEPA filter and placed it inside the enclosure. This way it filtered out the bad stuff and kept the warm air inside. I think I paid $30 for it and used it for 8 years (I print mostly PLA now). Had my printer, filter, LED lights & small camera all on a power strip to turn it all on at one time.
That’s a fantastic idea
Thumbs up for Printed Solid 👍
I find drying the ABS filament in a heated dry box greatly reduces the fumes it releases when printing. Can make it brittle on the spool though but seems to restore ductility when printed.
When I’m working on side projects while my printer is going at it, I’m one to marathon my favorite shows, just chatter in the background. It’s going to be Red Vs Blue, House, and Friends.
When I want noise on in the background I usually que up a playlist of 3D Printing Nerd. ;)
Nice :)
How loud (dB) is the first filter box you tested?
And what does it cost?
Different people have different reactions to different things. I've never had abs effect me, when I got my elegoo mars and printed with elegoo abs like redin I was fine. I loaded it up with siryatech blu and started a print to print overnight while I slept. The odor from it was enough to make me sick without realising it. I woke up feeling like I had a mild flu or severe cold. Bad headache etc.
I usually watch youtube with yourself and other 3d printing channels playing while doing things. Never stop learning.
I have the same enclosure on one of my iMK3s printers, that I have dedicated as my high-temp / ABS / ASA machine. I have a recirculating air purifier right under the rack. The printer is about 10fr from my workstation - there are barely any fumes when running.
I use a Weller Fume Extractor, as I need it for soldering, and it is Cal/OSHA approved. I can barely hear it all, unless I’ve got my ear right up next to it, and I think it’s a little less than the larger unit that you used. It comes with 2 intakes, 1 for soldering, and 1 for my 3D printers. 😎
Sounds like you fired up a Phenom when the BOFA kicked in! I was expecting to see temps decrease when you kicked it on, but also thought there would be a little more moisture removed as well at those temps and CFM.
Very interesting video. Haven't seen the fainting chimp in years, too.
You can make the box out of card board, even install a see through door from material found in your home center. If made with care, it looks and works great.
A computer fan from a computer power supply and 2 hoses (sections of swimming poll hoses inside a small cardboard box for the fan, vacuum hose that can be cut into two....
Run the output of your box fan to the outside, and you can spray paint it all nice.
Go to your home center's hardware, plumbing and electrical sections, and browse for what you can use for your project.
3D print the hardware you need (i.e. hinges, handles, brackets, hose fittings...) If you want it to cost even less.
Your extractor (exhaust fan), should be connected to the bottom of the enclosure. This way the temperature in the unit stays constant.
Background viewing - Star Trek: The Next Generation
Great video, with us learning more and more about nanoparticles and how they enter the body, we're still waiting to find out what damage (if any) they can cause.
Great vid as always. How about a test when you vetilate for 2min after the printer is done to clear the air, before you open the encloser?
The optimal filtration solution would probably be putting one or two of those 3m p100 hepa carbon filters connected to a high pressure fan inside the enclosure. It filters the smell, particles and gases, you don’t lose heat, and its less noisy
I love to put your videos on in the background!
My senior year of high school I don’t think I ever completed a homework assignment at home without fern gully the last rainforest playing in the background.
Book Of Eli dude, epic.
LOTR - extended edition, any of the trilogy in no particular order
What do I put on when 3D printing? You Joel...I watch you on here. Great show , down to earth and even enjoy the failures as I think we have all had some of these. Cheers from Australia
What do I put on when 3D printing ABS? Safety underwear.
I’ve got a sidewinder X one but we’re not getting the best prints out of it. Even if it’s on fine print. Is there anyway we can make it better?
Your studio is 500 sq feet? In the SF Bay Area we have a name for that... A family home!
Joel, a smarter implementation, and quieter would be to use a P3 filter and fan that kicks in at the print finishing, my printer does this when doing ABS, it gets rid of the fumes and does not upset the temp and humidity.
Thank you!
Thank YOU
Any idea what the filter media is and can one make their own air scrubber?
Stanky and excellent! A hazardous hobby is a fun hobby.
If you put in any more cutaways to movies, TV, and CZcams videos, you'll soon be FAMILY GUY!
The fumes are a mixture of styrene particulates and formaldehyde gas given off as the ABS is heated. Personally, I mostly use PLA because of this. But..... I think that adding a filter may be a good idea for myself. It would be nice to print ABS without worrying about fumes.
Styrene is a candidate for being a carcinogen. Not sure it's been absolutely decided yet. It is known to cause headache and tiredness.
As for formaldehyde gas, that is odourless. It causes watery eyes, burning sensation in eyes, nose and throat, coughing, wheezing nausea and skin irritation. Others may have none of these symptoms. It has been classified as a carcinogen by a number of safety and public health organisations.
I certainly wouldn't have rushed this experiment as a little research shows plenty of studies of ABS printing adverse effects
Every filament should have an MSDS/SDS safety and emergency treatment document from the manufacturer.
@@theoriginalbabycub Verified by a third party lab* I don't trust these filament companies to have a clue what they are doing.
I got the same effect with putting a table top hepa filter inside the enclosure - so it sucks the air in in the front and blows it out the back and it stays in the enclosure. Also if you let it run for a couple of minutes after the print is done you are all fine. I got to wait anyway as the ultrabase on my chirons got to cool down so the print pops off. And that thing was somewhere around $60 or so at walmart. So make the enclosure big enough to fit the filter inside it
Wow... fun video. Could a test like this be done on a Mars Pro or Mars 2 Pro... they say they have built in filters...
I have an internal hepa filter. I run the filter when the print is going. I also have an external vent going outside through a window adapter for portable Air conditioners. When the print is Done I turn on the external fan.
I've printed both black and yellow gembird abs and only the yellow has any noticeable smell and also it oozes so probably 260c is too high for that (but the black abs at 260c has noticabely better layer adhesion than at 240 or lower)
I don't usually watch movies, I just play shows like Futurama, Archer, and some other animes. Sometimes I'll just play old episodes of CZcams videos like your show, Scott the Woz, and Game Grumps. :)
how about designing something we can make at a fraction of the cost ? Perhaps vacuum Hepa Filters or active carbon what is needed to remove the smell and is removing the smell good enough or are there smaller particles too ? I am super sensitive to the smell and within a very short time makes my throat sore so really want a good , but cheap way to do this.
AND build it inside the enclosure.
There are 3d prints available for fume extractors that use a 120mm fan / small hepa filter and active carbon filter. It's like $10. total, and you can just have them recirculate the air. Given that these work with soldering smoke I don't see why they couldn't handle some ABS fumes. I have one in my enclosure, but haven't had a chance to test it with ABS yet.
Happy Gilmore is my background movie! "GO HOME BALL, WHAT ARE YOU TOO GOOD FOR YOUR HOME??!?!"
Do the toxic fumes from ABS float or sink in air? Would it be beneficial to remove the air from the top or bottom of a print cabinet?
when is the joel custom nose going on kickstarter?
I've printed ABS on the Prusa in the office before, and I don't remember any significant smell, which probably means the HVAC system is really good.
Oooo. Bofa review. Ok, you have my attention, Joel.
There's a good video on this topic over at Design Prototype Test. The VOC off-gassing is a concern with most plastics.
10:22 BOFA deez nuts!!!!!!!
8:28 when ma wife pulls off the covers in the morning.
Bahahahahhaa
printing with any filament gives me a sore throat. Prusament Galazy Black gives me the worst headache and makes me feel ill for a few days. I setup a section of my workshop next to a window and have three large fans pulling air out of a enclosed section.
If the enclosuree is a wee bigger, you could put the bofa 1 inside the enclosure with the 3d printer and reduce the sound as well in one go. Kind regards Hans
I for my part have an enclousure witch a (about 20euro) carbon filter on top and a fan pulling the air out of the box.
It works for most of the materials. For extra smelly ones i still have to open the window.
Nice video for all the ones that print very mutch. Liked it 👍
Any hint where to find such a thing?
i haven't checked to see if you have any updates. But I would rather know how well a home made enclosure with a bathroom fan, ducted out the window will work. I would have a basement set up and don't want that scent/poison in the house. But i'm not sure if the draw would be too much. Or if the fan has to be in the box. Or if hovering over it is good enough or what.
Self Poisoned Joel!! LOL
I would like to see this test with a DIY solution. Try a small HEPA filter, taped to the input side of a computer fan. Put that in the enclosure. That should help. ... At least that is my theory. ... I do a similar thing in my wood shop with a 20" box fan and it helps a lot when sanding.
Bambu X1C with bento box!
You can make everything easier and more convenient to use: you can build a hood into the extruder itself. Simply suck in air directly from the work surface and pass it through the filter. This solution can already be integrated by default into any printers, primarily for "home users."
That would cause the toolhead to be the point of most unstable air with the highest air movement in the enclosure. Right at the nozzle. Sounds undesirable for controlling print quality.
The VOC in the air settles in 10-30 minutes after the print is done. So, you need to test that too. It is important to test.
I wonder how long it would take to remove the scent if you started the filter after 🤔
I printed with ABS on the tronxy X1, It must be a new recipe they use as default that needs these temps to print with.
I have an X3S these days but.. I am tempted to get a newer machine given the features. But I'm also thinking they seem over complicated. Less noise compels me most of all
I've evolved to where I can only breath ABS outgasing
great timing! I was just complaining about the ABS smell in the office like half an hour ago
If the case contains the off-gassing... just don’t run air filtration or exhaust fan until the printing is done. Let the gasses accumulate and the interior stay warm... then flip the switch and filter/exhaust the interior air.
Now I want to see a full DIY activated carbon filter for an enclosure like this...
I've been toying with the idea. Not a fan of the huge external box though, so going to try to find something that will fit inside.
Voron nevermore is legit.
Interrestingly enough, you didn't compare it with the E2?, is that filtering better?
5:19 And his nose is the same color of his shirt 😂😆
My question is, how reliable is that Prusa MK3 printing inside an enclosure? I have a mk3S+ and i heard that some had issues with melting parts when printing inside an enclosure, i would love to try to print with ASA or ABS but I’m afraid to damage my printer in the process because an enclosure is a must with certain filaments.
I ran an MK3S+ and a Mini+ inside DIY enclosures for around a hundred hours each. The heat they generate on their own is nowhere near enough to raise the chamber temperature enough to deform the plastic. If you were to build as small an enclosure as possible and insulate the mess out of it, you could probably do it. But my MK3S enclosure was a cardboard box, and my Mini+ enclosure was a collapsible photography shooting cube. They did fine printing ABS that way.
Isn't that a huge rectangular hole in the back where the filament goes into the enclosure?
No. If you look really close, you can tell that there's a window covering that hole and the filament is coming in from above.
@@Jbot123 Ah. That explains why he wasn't smelling anything before he cracked open the door. I suppose you'd have to look REAL close... there's only the one angle.
Is there enough vents in the enclosure to let 14 CFM in?
I listen to Clyde Lewis maybe some chill lofi tunes while I work on my projects.
I really want one of these or to make a more quiet one.
What are the filter costs for the print pro3?
I listen to 3DPN (including this video) as background noise
my background familiar noise is old 3d printing nerd videos. and some other youtubers too
Joel said, "I am not about to vom all over the place." Lol
I have my ender 3 in my bedroom. It is inside a plastic box thing with a pc fan attached that sucks the gas out though the window. And so far.. i don't smell anything but that doesn't mean that the fan is sucking every gas plastic molecule out of the enclosure which worries me a lot sometimes. But I don't have any other space at home so I don't have any other way.
I only tried printing with abs once and I didn't smell anything. But i do print with pla and petg a lot.
i have all them movies and 5 more plus you joel lol
Tested on CZcams has become my background watch.
Which material does prusa use to print the printer parts ?
PETG I believe.
i queue all the transformers movies in order, started doing it when i had to rebuild mt ender 3 to sort out x-gantry sag and install my micro swiss DD extruder
Nice video
Nice and funny video. One thing to note, the return hose does not ensure proper air flow thus reducing filtration.
Nice video. But ever wondered what you breathe sitting in a new car after a hot sun day!? Glue, Dyes, ABS, Acryl etc. all off-gassing. That makes 3D printing in comparison look like a ventilator health cure for your respiratory system! +)
Oh sir... the things you do for us... please be safe!
When I work at a injection molding company if one of the heat band would malfunction and overheat the abs you would know it. Just being 100 feet from it your eyes and nose would start burning almost instantly. It was just as bad as pepper spray. Just thinking about it it's making my eyes water.
Background viewing: Food Network, and occasionally sports
I've got youtube videos (like this one) playing in a tiny window while I'm working
I don't think that the Bofa 1 filtration system is the best solution for most makers. It costs $325 and the noise level is now up to 54dBA in your work area. Nevermind the added electricity draw (0.5 amps) and the need to replace the filters.
Yeah those sound like serious problems...except you don't die from years of inhaling carcinogenic VOCs. All those other concerns start to pale when you think about playing roulette with your lungs. Knowing my space is full of benzene and formaldehyde from printing ABS, and seeing my 4 year old walk in and say it smells funny, was enough to convince me that I'm willing to pay good money to keep it out of her lungs.
A half amp isn't even a rounding error on the typical power bill. Turn one incandescent bulb off while you print, and you break even.
@@hudsoncraftworks I think you misunderstood my comment. I didn't say you shouldn't use a filtration system. I'm just saying that most makers are pretty frugal when it comes to 3d printing and the Bofa 1 cost more than an Ender 3. Also one of the biggest complaints about printers is the noise and adding something that is louder than the printer is not ideal.
Personally, I only occasionally print with ABS. The prints are typically around 20 hours long and I just crack a window enough to fit a couple of case fans to exhaust out. As for electricity, I know 60w is not a lot but my 2 case fans only use 10w total. Also, 60w turns on about half of the lights in my house because who still uses incandescent 😋
the larger filter seemed to me to be not as loud as the smaller filter, asking for a friend that may be wanting to buy one of these filters
LOLs as I smear lacquer thinners with dissoved ABS over a warm glass plate then go for a 2 hour chem nap. Waiting with held breath for my replacement PEX sheet to arrive.
Abs or pla. Which one do you prefer?
Any recommendations on a cheaper filtration system? Something more affordable for a hobbyist level person who's not ready to invest enough to buy a another printer etc?
I just designed and made my own using a roomba filter, AC prefilter material some fans, or you can just use one of the many available designs.