Expensive Vs Cheap 3d printer nozzles - let's look inside.
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- čas přidán 15. 01. 2024
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2nd episode! • The Print Tests: Cheap...
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In this episode we dive DEEP into nozzles. Yes, into. Watch to the end.
Some links to things in the video:
Creality nozzles on Aliexpress: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Ddd...
The Panasonic G9 used in this video: amzn.to/426tNf1
The macro lens (micro 4/3): amzn.to/3HjvnRk
The Microscope amzn.to/42amW4f
Helicon Focus: www.heliconsoft.com/
hey Lost. you seem anxious to a certain degree about the video, the length, spliting it all that. don`t worry about it. this is VERY VERY interesting, and it`s importnat you take the time it takes to do it right. thanks for this.
Thanks for that!
Amazing video!
I definitely got Space Odyssey vibes half way through 😆… not a bad thing but it is new style of video for sure.
@@LostInTech3DI agree! I have ADHD, it’s evening, my meds have largely worn off, and I almost never WATCH CZcams, I listen. I sat and watched the whole thing! It was interesting and really well done!
second this!
If we had cinematic awards for 3d printing, I’d nominate this video! Looking forward to the results.
This!
You said what's on my mind!
that was the most annoying part of the video....
Don’t show this man a bore scope and gun barrel, he will make a documentary! (That’s a hint)
He's not blasting a hunk of metal out of a long tube of metal with gun powder hoping it will land roughly in the proximity of some some arbitrarily distant target. he's trying to make sub-mm precise extrusions and movements with precise heat distribution and bla bla bla. we're going for precision more than rigidity
I would probably watch that documentary TBH. haha
I was thinking of a note light when he was talking about lighting 😂
Awesome work. Macro photography is not an easy task and having tried and failed to get good results I appreciate just how much effort you've put in.
Thanks! I have a fair bit of experience but this was crazy even for me 😁
Super interesting video. Also crazy shots. Focus stacking is something I have been wanting to explore for really long time. Really cool to see the 3d models generated from the stacks 😊
I want to automate it next 😂👍
@@LostInTech3D have you seen Stefan’s work on it??
If I can find it I’ll send it your way.
Yeah he uses a stepper motor, I've seen it.
@@ModBotArmy Please link to it. I've seen a ton of his videos (assuming you're talking about @CNCKitchen), but I don't seem to be able to find one about automating his camera work.
Quite possibly the coolest 3D printer video I've seen in a very long while. Explaining how they work, how they're possibly made, voicing concerns about propitiatory parts and how clones are inferior. Showing off amazing techniques to literally get into the nitty gritty of this topic really shows how passionate you are with this technology. I love stuff like this, because at the same time I like to try and think like the engineers who make these the way they do. Seriously amazing stuff.
It would be neat to see the ruby and diamond tipped (Diamondback) nozzles that are made for the printers
I'm sure with enough new patrons that would be possible ;)
I really enjoy that you are taking a real "look" at all of these nozzles. I am thoroughly confused however after watching. I think i need a simple comparison with a shortened description of each nozzle in a simple format. Like here is the worst looking one, dont buy that, then this one is ok, then this one is better, then voila here are the best looking ones buy those.
This is a really great video, and I appreciate the work you’re putting into this project immensely.
One comment I’d like to make though, is that more flow doesn’t actually require a longer nozzle. This is a small thing, but early on in this video you did mention that more flow means a longer nozzle, and this isn’t true. The only thing you need for more flow is a longer melt zone, and the melt zone doesn’t have to be entirely in the nozzle. The reason this became the popular method (I believe) is because the E3d V6 design requires the nozzle to butt against the heatbreak in order to seal the hotend and prevent filament leaks. However, there are two main designs that I know of (because I own one example of each) that disprove the whole “more flow requires a longer nozzle” thing. Those are the Mellow/Vez3d Goliath, and the Phaetus Rapido 2 UHF. Both of these hotends are compatible with bog standard V6 style nozzles. The Goliath is one of the highest flowing hotends available because it has a ridiculously long melt zone, despite the fact that it uses a standard length nozzle. The Phaetus Rapido 2 UHF is perhaps more interesting to my point though, in that the Rapido 2 UHF comes with the ability to run in “normal” Rapido mode (that is, the same as the standard Rapido) as well as in UHF configuration. The only thing that changes is an extension gets screwed onto the melt zone, which extends the melt zone, then the normal V6 nozzle gets screwed into the extension - and presto! We have more flow. To my understanding, this is a change from the Rapido 1 which used what was essentially a fancy nut to extend the melt zone, and required a Volcano nozzle to run in UHF mode. Oh, and there’s the Mosquito Magnum and Magnum + from Slice Engineering, which run with the same idea of using a longer melt zone.
Again, this isn’t of particular importance to what you’re working on. It’s just something that I think is worth mentioning, because needing a longer nozzle really is an issue specific to the V6 design from E3d, and all of the other hotends that copied the concept. It’s not actually something we ever had to have.
re: surface finish
Construct 3d showed off a 6 input hotend for higher flow. It was made with sls. To smooth the insides, glow filament is run through it for polishing purposes
Oh....now I need to test that
@@LostInTech3DAlso I wonder if chemical finishing could be sensible to do.
I love the fact that you’re mixing your passions, clearly you enjoy it. I enjoyed seeing that and would love videos like this in the future
I just watched one of the most artistic and, at the same time, technically explanatory videos I have ever seen on CZcams in my life. I realized that a nozzle is never just a nozzle. what the artist means here "If you can't find flaws with something, you're not looking closely enough".
very well said :3
This is such a great video from such a fantastic channel. I got into printing a few months back and all other channels I've wanted to learn about the hobby have sort of faded away, as yours is far away my favorite. I appreciate how much work went into this vid, looking forward to the next one.
Buddy... 10:54 was a wow moment. Great video. Definitely some of your best work. Even if it was just an excuse to play photographer with 3D printer parts. ;)
12:27 was also pretty amazing. I mean it's basically very small part 3D scanning, albeit probably not extremely accurate dimensionally. That is just super cool.
Perhaps cross sectioning some nozzles would allow for more INsights? Definitely not upset this is split into multiple videos, but I will be impatiently waiting.
My guess is general quality of nozzles, inside and out, hardly affects printing unless there is a major defect. Nozzle design and material matters more than quality.
The quality may have more impact on clogging and melted filament sticking though. I think many nozzles are too expensive for sure and the marketing is strong.
From almost 10 years of 3D printing I don't have the impression that the precision of the nozzle plays more than a minor role in print quality. Super duper premium nozzles are one of these obsessions people who love to show around their expensive toys develop while people who just work with 3D printers couldn't care less about them.
That was my impression too, although there's definitely such a thing as too cheap...a hole is useful 🤣🤣
8:44 I was bracing for a quick little "Hey! Vsauce, Michael here!"
I'm not in a condition to be a patreon or anything (at least for now), but I can express my sincere thanks for this awesome video. I'm blown away by the tech that created those stacked 3D images, and more importantly how amazing it gets in skilled hands. One of the most impressive 3D printing videos I have seen so far.
At 12:04, you say that the software needs to generate a depth map to do the stacking. Well, yes, kind of. Before I go further, I want to mention that I am an embedded software engineer. I worked at a company for 3 years working on a face recognition access control system. It involved a lot of image processing.
Now, when it comes to image stacking there are a few different ways to slice this cake, but the way I would approach it is by doing a Fourier transform on the images. A Fourier transform converts an image into the frequency domain. Sharp, in-focus images contain a lot of high frequency information, whereas blurry images lack that high frequency information. By taking each image and slicing it into a bunch of ring sections, then doing a Fourier transform on each of those ring slices, you can determine the in-focus portion of the image. You then combine (stack) the in-focus portion of each image, probably doing some blending around the ring edges to get a cleaner result.
This is actually not too difficult to do, so charging a crazy amount of money for software that does it is, in my opinion, exploitative. Now, processing the image to get enough 3D information to do perspective changes is on another level of complexity altogether and probably would warrant a heftier price tag for the software.
Interesting.
This is what helicon has to say about it (there are three methods):
Method A computes the weight for each pixel based on its contrast and then forms the weighted average of all pixels from all source images. This method works better for short stacks and preserves contrast and color.
Method B selects the source image containing the sharpest pixel and uses this information to form the "depth map". This method imposes strict requirements on the order of images - it should always be consecutive. Perfectly renders textures on smooth surfaces.
Method C uses pyramid approach to image processing dividing image signals into high and low frequencies. Gives good results in complex cases (intersecting objects, deep stacks), though increases contrast and glare
Sounds like you're describing some version of method C?
@@LostInTech3D Yeah, pretty close. I've never done image stacking before, it wasn't involved in the face recognition algorithm that I worked on.
What I described is how I'd initially approach the problem. After implementing that, I'd test and refine it as much as I could. The end result would probably be something very close to Method C.
Kinda cool that I pretty much hit the nail on the head without researching it at all! :P
I recently learned the nozzle diffences the hard way, when buying a new nozzle and realizing that it was too short 😅
Awesome man! As a photographer myself i really loved this video. Macro with focus stacking is fun. :) thanks for the great shots
thanks, really appreciate it! :)
Man, this is your best work by a country mile, which was already at a high baseline level. Fascinating deep dive.
My interest in this channel is definitely the 3D-printing part of it, however I gladly watched this just based on how gorgeous some photos were 😊
When I use a new E3D volcano nozzle, i always round the nozzle's edge on a hard surface. I do it because the sharp edge has a bad habit of accumulating material while printing. A rounded nozzle just prints better. I usually print functional parts so always tune the print to be on the edge of overextruding.
I enjoyed this style of video, it’s very different from your typical content but your expert knowledge really shows through here. And thanks for not rushing through your video, I think the topic of nozzles is fascinating and I’d love to see you do it justice.
this is mine blowing and amazing! Love the intricate details you put in to make this topic the most fascinating I have ever heard it discussed. Well done!
The sheer amount of effort in this video and the kit used is a signature of this channel. Above and beyond is all I can say. Congratulations
Please explore this. I went down a rabbit hole of polishing cheap nozzles with diamon polish up to like 50k grit or something stupid. It doesn't take too long to make a cheap nozzle polished. But I didn't really see much of a difference in print quality. The things I've noticed effect print quality are: distance thermistor is from the nozzle tip( closer is better), stable temperatures, filament consistency, extruder build quality & resolution, and for crazy motor drivers: electrical noise. In that order. Stable Temps really seem the most important. Keep the temp at the tip of the nozzle & ambient air from fluctuating too much and quality is great.
Yes yes, yes & yes!!!
I would also recommend getting a dedicated testing platform setup with the BIQU Hermit Crab for different hotends to remove unknown variables.
Keep up the great work and looking forward to part2.
How on earth would anyone be enjoying this weird montage?!... I loved it.
Your one of my favorite 3D printing info channels. The videos are top tier quality with good original information. I don’t mind the wait between videos because it means when one does come out it’s going to be good. I’m excited for the followup videos, thank you for all the effort your putting into this
Wow! I'm only halfway through but already liked it. That's an achievement not many videos have gotten.
One or two M6 nuts (or mayby one full nut plus a half/locknut) can usually convert a Volcano nozzle to a short-nozzle hotend, in case you've never tried - may save you some time and dosh
Awesome vid BTW, a hell of a lot of work gone into those shots
You can actually polish the nozzle internally with a toothpick polishing paste and a slow cordless drill.
Commenting to support. As a macro photographer myself, I could not leave a comment to appreciate the amount of work and time invested in this video! Please keep doing this so community get more educated, get more in-depth answers about FDM
I would love to see this type of photography done on a diamondback nozzle. Their construction is already an insane process, and I wonder what it really looks like through the nozzles.
You are the Sir Attenborough of nozzles.
Wonderful integration of subject content and sponsor content.
You are to be congratulated on the great photography and video sequence which did show how different the quality of manufacture, I can not imagine how you are going to better this video.
I’ve tried a variety for the Ender 3, cheap nozzle work fine, baht they show wear very quickly but are very susceptible to clogging up. What I did end up settling on was the POLISI3D nickel plated copper ones. They simply don’t clog and changing print materials isn’t an issue, though I always run 50mm of cleaner filament when changing.
Those custom nozzles being overpriced and/r not available is something I expected. They seem they’d be a bad choice in a print farm setting
Amazing video sir. When it went 3D that was a "wow" moment.
Excellent. Such a great video! You make it all looks so beautiful, with the music and all...loved it!❤
This cinematography of nozzles is like a Stanley Kubrick movie 👍🤙😊
From personal experience, the cheap nozzles got clogged up more often but can be easily dealt with using a filament dust filter.
One thing though, I really hate how Bambu Lab designs their nozzle. I bet they intentionally designed it that way to make it harder to copy and artificially jack up the price hence more profit. They literally required you to buy an extra heat sink for every nozzle you buy from, simply an e-waste. Some Chinese manufacturers already made a modified Bambu Lab nozzle where you can swap out "only the nozzle" and use a normal nozzle (E3D, CHT, cheap ones, etc).
Really cool video. Can't wait to see the continuation/completion.
Excellent images. Really like the idea behind the video too.
As for the various nozzle types; I got rid of my sovolcano nozzles and switched my SV06 Plus hotend over to also use MK8 nozzles. I have tons of MK8 nozzles (brass, plated copper, hardened) from my other printers.
Excellent video... I appreciate you making this as it is something I have been wondering myself for a couple of years now. Kudos for all of the photographic work and the research hours put into this. Very much looking forward to the next one.
Finally one of my favorite 3D printing CZcamsrs is looking into a question i have had for a long time, thank you!! I can’t wait, i love the quality of your videos and explanations!
This is so hillarious. I mean, the phrase "Lost In Tech", is defintion to this video. Wonderful. Thanks for this experience.
haha, past me knew future me's destiny apparently
This was legit worth the effort, and i say that as someone who hates doing focus stacking with a passion. Kudos!
Thanks 👍
Amazing pictures. You know what a truly beautiful nozzle is? A phaetus tungsten carbide. The perfect finish, the shimmer or the dlc coating, non existing roughness on the inside and outside. Nearly to beautiful to put in a printer. A e3d obxidian is also just a good looking
sweet. i really enjoyed this. some of the shots and stacks you made looked amazing. I'm really looking forward to more. Cheers
You've somehow managed to make 3D nozzles very entertaining. An achievement of monumental proportions. I watched to the very end.
We used to use an "Optical Comparator" in inspections for thru-holes. It's the specific machine for this! Though cameras work too.
That was fantastic!! Thanks for making this one. Looking forward more.
I’ve seen some of your other videos but this one got me. Keep exploring and sharing.
Thanks for the deep dive into this subject. This could be a masters thesis. So many variables to contend with makes the rabbit hole very deep.
This was mesmerizing then I was thoroughly blown away when the stacking software generated a 3D model
Thorough, concise. This is the exact kind of videos I wanna see in the 3D printing space. I too have noticed the change in all the extra nozzles. I really hope one really sticks and become the new standard to later bring down cost and availability.
Very interesting indeed, definitely looking forward to seeing the print comparisons. Super cinematography for this one, much appreciated the dedication
20 seconds in and all I can think is: "I've been waiting for this one!"
Thank you
I cannot avoid comparing your videos to Posy's. Both with superb photography, both showing views from things normally hidden from the naked eye in interesting ways!
I'm happy to hear that, his channel is frankly amazing.
I think the video perfectly matches your channel name in a good way. I really like the depth and detail and understand that it needs time in the video to develop. Rushing it wouldn’t feel right here, the pace is perfect and leaves room to take a look at the nozzle in a way I never could before. Awesome!
Its nice to see someone get in too the nitty-gritty part of 3d printers. I dont see many anymore
You, sir, are doing the Lord's work here. I feel nozzles are the most neglected, misunderstood part of 3D printing, yet quite possibly one of the MOST IMPORTANT factors in print quality.
I don't think machining quality or hole... roundness?... Anyway I don't think those are the only determining factors in print quality. I feel a nozzle's heat capacity, conductivity and thermal shock resistance all matter as well. There are very real reasons why a brass nozzle naturally prints smoother, more consistent prints than a hardened steel one. A print that changes from an infill to a cavity and back to infill will exhibit different surface qualities depending on the nozzle being used.
Edit: I'd be willing to bet a well-machined, nickel-plated, iron nozzle, though slow to heat, would be an unbeatable nozzle for print quality, especially with high flow rates.
This was amazing!!!! Thank you for the amazing quality and hard work!!! I apreciate the insite into the quality if nozzle out there. I would love to see a side by side of how this quality effects flowrate between various nozzles of the same spec and design.
Some amazing photography there and a fascinating dig into the topic….but the real result will be the, well, results. What actual differences in print quality and reliability do the various offerings give. Can’t wait for that one.
Thank you!
The images inside the bore were amazing.
Love how this video came out directly after i changed my nozzle on my V2 Neo to a tungsten carbide nozzle from dawnblade, at $25 for a single nozzle its pricy af... but i dont expect to have to change this nozzle any time soon. It also has the added benefit of higher thermal conductivity than brass so you can go faster with more consistent layers.
25 dollars for a tungsten carbide nozzle is a good deal. They are not easy to machine.
Brass (109 W/mK+) has better thermal conductivity than tungsten carbide (85 W/mK).
youve just done something others havent and wouldnt even dare thinking of doing it. GREAT JOB. Super interesting. This is one of those vids you want to be able to hit the like button multiple times...
awesome photos, there's always something special at looking macro shots at such a high resolution
This was *incredible*. Haven’t enjoyed a 3pd video this much in a long while. Bravo!
This is waaayyyy to good to much effort for open content. Amazing work. The explanation about stcking with montage and music was almost like a travel through Arrakis...
Excellent video. Thank you for looking into this. I have been buying the cheapest nozzles I can, now I’m doubting that decision.
We need more like this men. Keep it up!
I didn't expect to enjoy watching this and the second episode as much as I did. Visually stunning on a whole other level.
Yes Please! Ive wondered the same thing about nozzles. I've even polished the inside of cheap brass nozzles and it seemed like it worked better after I put it back on polished.
Some seriously impressive bits of photography here. This is really cool.
Wild images! Thank you for doing this.
Thanks for the video. I can see how difficult it is to do the material justice. Looking forward to your next episode.
Awesome stuff. I've always loved macro shots.
Also, your custom LED PCB has my interest (Custom flashlights are another hobby of mine). Do you know what emitters you plan to use? And what type of driver? I'd imagine Nichia E17a would be just about ideal due to their small size (1.7mm) and very high CRI. Also, you may already know this, but I highly recommend using an MCPCB instead of your traditional FR4 PCB. The metal core helps a lot to move heat away from the LED chip much better.
Looking forward to seeing what you're working on next. Cheers
This video actually forced me to override Spontzer Blok so I could see what you were talking about regarding PCBWAY. Mission accomplished! Well-did.
🤣
This is awesome. Definitely looking forward to the next videos in this series!
felt like I was watching a posy video about nozzles, great content as always!
I'm impressed at how many people have noticed the heavy nods to posy's style... 👍
In depth studies of any topic are always high effort to produce. Knowing how, when, and where to split lengthy content is more art than science. You are doing a great job of it, and I look forward to seeing the continuation of this study and story.
Yes. Very enjoyable. Your content is well produced. And I typically chuckle at least a few times each episode. Your sense of humor is very aligned with mine. Keep it up.
Thank you kindly sir. I've wondered about quality since buying my first Qidi X Max printer 3 years ago. Now I have seven, mostly Ender series. Thanks again. 😁
This is really cool stuff. The pictures are spectacular. I'm especially interested in your comparison of how the cheap vs expensive nozzles (or at least well vs poorly made ones), though. I went the proprietary nozzle route 7 years ago with a Micro Swiss all-metal MK10 kit. Those nozzles are $15 each these days (and they weren't much less when I did the upgrade.) On the other hand, the .4mm nozzle that came with the kit is still going strong so I guess the quality shows through in that regard. (I also have a couple of hopelessly clogged .2mm nozzles but that's not the manufacturer's fault.) Anyway, I'm looking forward to more in this series. Keep up the great work!
*Beautiful camera work.* Thank you. I have a Elegoo Nepture 4 plus, and love it. But getting replacement nozzles... There always out of stock!
I heard they're getting them back in stock soon but yeah the downside of only elegoo making them.
Nice! We love you Lost, keep up with these out of the box videos!
Ooooohhhh myyyy! Nozzle pr0n! 🤣👌 Absolutely LOVED this. I am a bit of a photographer on the side too (though I lean towards live shows), so that angle also gets me... AWESOME work. Can't wait for part two!!!
I know I'm late to the party, but... have you considered taking some pictures from the other end? I just hold them up (really close) to my eye to see if anything is in there. The nozzle opening acts as a pinhole lens, and you can see EVERYTHING in the barrel
I'll experiment with that! Optics are weird but I'll see what happens
CNC machining is a bit like slicing 3Dprints. Bigger manufacturers will have their "settings" honed in (literally) much better because there are more iterations where slight corrections go a long way.
Plus they will have more capable machines that are themselves produced to a higher standard (and specialized tools probably).
Incredible footage
(it's reamed not honed I know)
Now go try one of those diamond tips.
I've seen a few reviewers who are rather critical of such things give it glowing reviews
I'll see if I can get them to send me one 😁
I'm still waiting to see a print comparison between such a nozzle and a cheap one, where the prints haven't been done on different printers with different gcode, where I can see a difference in quality.
Dude! Show them this video & I’m sure they’d love to put their nozzle in front of your camera!
Ahhh I was doing macro with reversed 50mm lenses when I was teenager, I made incredblie shoots of eyes !
Very excited for the next video!
Your videos are becoming higher and higher quality. Please more like this!!
I very much enjoyed it. The close ups were beautiful. People don't realise how tiny those holes are.
That was very interesting! It gave me some thoughts about the other "consumables"...
Thank you very much for your investigation. This adds another factor when thinking about buying a new printer.
Nice work! Is it not possible to shoot at a really high F-stop with insanely bright light to get a better depth of field?
I was trying for f/8 which is the sharpness sweet spot on that lens, apparently. But yeah. You could if you can get the lights in there.
I may have some ideas about that but I'll need a 2.85 nozzle 👍😁
Holy hell, you really went down the rabbit hole to give us the whole picture.