The Sound Couple - The Faders vs. Tablets Showdown!!
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- čas přidán 11. 01. 2022
- The Sound Couple dives into the pro's and con's of mixing front of house on a physical fader console versus mixing on a tablet, such as an iPad.
We cover topics as to what type of events are more suited for a console and tablets. We also discuss the good, the bad and the ugly of mixing on each.
The Sound Couple has adapted a tablet first approach and will only use a fader console when the situation calls for it. We think there is still a resistance and hesitation to dedicated tablet mixing for many types of gigs. This video will hopefully help others to see that it can be done, and if if you do, it too, comes with many benefits.
Which won wins? Well, really neither, it's about choosing the right tool for the job!
List of tips for more success with tablet mixing:
Tips for a better tablet mixing experience:
* • Dedicate the tablet device for this purpose. It’s now your mixer control. Don’t have it be mixer one day and the next day, your kids are playing games on it
* • Install only the apps you need to do the job
* • Use a pencil device for control of your device - don’t rely on your dried out “gig” fingers to control the device
* • Buy the biggest screen you can afford
* • Invest in a quality wireless router and operate in the 5GHz spectrum
* • Scan wireless channels if your router supports it if you are having wireless connection issues
* • Charge your tablet devices to 100% before the gig!
* • Make sure you invest in a quality charger that can charge the units as quickly as possible
* • On an iPad, swipe up and close all unnecessary applications
* • On an iPad, place your mixer control apps in the dock so they are always a press away
* • Leave the screen on once it’s connected to the mixer. You don’t want to fumble around trying to reconnect the device app back to the mixer. You should be fine on battery and charging during breaks
* • Adjust the screen brightness to what is needed to get the job done to save battery
* • Disable sleep or any type of screen saving settings
* • Have a back-up wireless control device ready to go
* • Have an additional device (laptop) Ethernet connected to your network in-case of wireless issues
* • Invest in a quality case that is durable and sure handed for your tablet, like an Otterbox
* • Affix your name and contact number to your device. An honest person will contact you if you lose it
* • Set predetermined areas to place you tablet and pencil if you need to set them down so you are not wasting time looking for them
The Sound Couple primarily use PreSonus gear featuring:
PreSonus UC Surface
PreSonus CDL12
PreSonus CDL18s
PreSonus 32R
PreSonus SW5E
PreSonus NSB Stageboxes
PreSonus AVB-D16 - Hudba
Making my way through ALL your videos from oldest to newest. Thank you for all you do! This was a big step up in production quality! Thank you Bart and Stacy!
Wow! We feel honored that you are spending that time! Thinking back, there is so much we have covered. We find it interesting that so many people expect "new and current", but our older videos, just like so many others, are still full of relevant information.
The "awww" moment: 0:52 "Well, they are quite gorgeous (faders), not as gorgeous as you"
Still got it after 20 years and counting!
Great video - I can’t argue with any of your comments and your conclusions. I much prefer a console but agree that tablet mixing has its place and I’m using it more and more.
That's what happened to us as well...we didn't plan on it, but it just started to make more sense for certain gigs. Primarily with weddings after getting chewed out about it a couple of times about putting a console out front.....that was it for us. Many reasons, but live sound is competing with DJ's so we need to be that easy as well.
Really love the perspective you bring towards the sound or audio business...Just love the way you couple understand what each other needs to do and just do it...I would want to apply myself this year in doing these niche shows to get a different perspective to the business...Thank you guys...👍
Thanks - that's really nice to hear this kind of feedback. We will keep the content coming!
Excellent description of the differences. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
I've been a full console mixer (analog and digital) for almost 40 years. There is nothing worse than a corporate gig or festival where you are placed side stage to mix. Last year I started working in local breweries and made the jump to wireless (Soundcraft Ui) and absolutely love being wireless. Setting monitors is so easy now and as you said the ability to walk around the room is essential. No after watching so many of your videos im now considering a Presonus for an upgrade.
Even when we use a console for FOH mixing, the tablet is still working for us....monitor checks, etc.
So true! I bring my x-touch to all shows so if I get a hankering for faders its a cat5 and im in! Although its not wireless, its very portable and satisfies those console cravings. Thank you guys.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching and all of your comments. Just like a a lot of musicians, there are a lot of benefits to portability!
Great video,love all of um.Keep it up yall:)
We will try!!
You guys are amazing!!!
Thanks Man - appreciate that!
I learn a lot from you guys. Thank you.
Thanks Frans - Glad we can help!
I almost always end up using both. I love the freedom of roaming around with a tablet during setup and soundcheck. During the event I'm on faders to handle cues quickly since I'm often multitasking and switch video for livestream at the same time. So faders are great if you need to multitask, which ideally you shouldn't but life isn't perfect 😅 Thanks for a great video!
The great feedback just keeps coming! Totally agree...using the strengths of each tool to get the job done.
Nice video guys!!! I enjoyed it very much
Ahh...thanks! Thank you for going back a bit, lots of good stuff!
I know this is an old video and I have subscribed and viewed I think almost all of your videos the last few months but this video provides a great summary of this very interesting subject.
I am a very small-time operator, mixing only for bands which I like who become friends in the process. So focusing on the musicians is natural in my case.
I have not read all of the comments, but I have a few which hopefully have not been discussed. One issue I have with tablet mixing is I have fine motor issues with my hands, which has caused me issues my entire life (handwriting, etc.). With laptop computers, touch pads are very difficult and frustrating to use and I almost always use a mouse with them. I mix (and now play bass for) one band using a Linux laptop with a mouse. I also mix this way for a theater using an X32 Compact but for different reasons. Not as good as a tablet but less intrusive and more portable than a console. I am going to try to transition to using a large tablet with a pointing device soon because of all the advantages noted in this video.
For both, I reduce my limitations by setting up as much as I can ahead of time using DCAs for any reasonable situations where I would would have to manage volumes on multiple channels (drums, all vocals, dedicated background vocals, horns, multiple guitars, all instruments, etc.). The ability to do so much setup ahead of time when you have time to really think about the needs of the show (and the ability to save your settings more effectively than taking a picture of your console) to me is a great advantage of digital mixing in general.
One other comment I would add is; just because the venue supplies a dedicated space for a console does not mean it is a good mixing space (I think this was discussed if it is next to the stage but even if it is out front. For example, the console location for the theater I volunteer for as their "sound person", the console is in a semi-enclosed booth with the lighting console (which is good on one way with the lighting person and I both reminding each other on upcoming queues). The problem with this is the sound in the booth is quite different than what the audience hears, Much of the reverberated high-end is suppressed (the theater is slowly being restored). So I mix with a laptop on a bench in front of the booth.
Anyway I wrote too much. Great video on this subject and thanks for posting!
Appreciate you going back and watching older videos as they are all still relevant. This video hopefully challenged some to think differently. Thanks for sharing your experience and personal challenges...We still think there is an opportunity for a manufacture to offer a hybrid portable control surface....We believe it would be game changer for many including addressing some of your challenges.
Great video and some good points raised. I run sound for a 5/6 piece function band and also play guitar and sing so I have to run the sound from on stage. I use an Allen & Heath QU16 with physical faders but also use an iPad to go out front for sound check. Once playing, it is easier to adjust things on the faders but it also means the keys and bass player can control their own “ears” mix if they want to.
I’d love to have a full time sound person so I can concentrate on playing, but budgets just don’t allow for it most of the time. 😞 I love it when we do bring in sound reinforcement, but it is a very rare treat. 😂
Lots of respect for you...it isn't easy. When I played in bands in the past, I was the sound guy too. I don't know how well I did, but the tools now at least give you a chance....I used to take hand signals from our friends in the crowd :)
Great stuff ! I came from an old school analogue background and like you Bart I found mixing with a tablet a bit tricky at first but I soon got used to it. This modern digital gear is incredibly versatile and even if I am using my X32 I usually have one or two " remotes" on it, all you need is a decent router and you are away. This technology is a godsend if you are working single handed.
You can even use your phone and changing background music tracks from the bar with your mobile can cause some very surprised faces !
Regarding wifi using 5GHz is a good idea as you have suggested as is setting your router not to broadcast it's SSID (most can do this) even though no-one can actually connect to it (unless you have VERY weak passwords) if they can't see it they won't even try.
Thanks for the comment....on a regular basis, people don't even know what I am doing when mixing on the tablet and that's ok with me!
Hola amigos de The Sound Couple, muy buenos sus videos y muy didacticos, los saludo desde Argentina..!! Exitos..!!
¡Gracias! ¡Agradecemos que vea y nos alegra que pueda obtener algo de valor de nuestros videos!
First, let me congratulate you on your fast growing channel. You channel suddenly jumped to over 400 ❤️. I can see your channel growing as it is helpful formus beginners to see what’s behind the scene.
Thanks for the perspective regarding the tablet mixing. I prefer mixing with tablet myself. I use the X32 with the S32 connected, so I ha total of 48 XLR inputs and 24 XLR outputs. It’s easier for me (personal opinion) to use tablet to do routing (re-routing if needed).
I also label all my gear with my name and cellphone number. I still believe in humanity
More power to your channel 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks Eli - Stacy and I are having a lot of fun with it! Hat's off to all of these folks that do all of this video editing...wholly cow, it's a lot of work but we are having a good time learning about that too. It's nice to see the channel growing, so as long as people are interested, we will keep at it until we run out things to talk about!
You guys ROCK!!!!!!
We try! Thanks!
Great work guys! Please come to Australia down under.
Sounds like that would be a fun “vacation”!
You guys/gal-(heard Stacy comment on this at another video) are just amazing!
Thanks again!
Smaller gigs, such as the ones you are doing should run 2 channel stereo mixed with a tablet. There are alleged "sound men" with up to 40 years of alleged experience, but it is possible to be 40 years experienced at doing the wrong thing. My question for sound men is, "how much training was received for the job and what new information was gained over the past year?" The problem with running mono at small gigs is that it creates a synthetic experience where the entire band is shoved inside a box of transducers. That's simply unnatural.
I love how your focus is the audience, the musicians and the event, and not you. That is a recipe for a successful sound business.
You guys are fantastic at what you do and share!!
We have been running stereo for years now and I believe it does improve a mix and allows you to manage it better. A good example is if we have horns, I will pan their channels to the opposite side to balance their overall sound (mixing off what's coming off the stage), so they can be tight in the mix, but not blowing everyone out of the room, which can happen with horns since they compete with that same vocal space in the mix.
Appreciate your summary of our role as sound people. I am fully convinced that is the lense we should all be looking through first.
Amazing
Thanks!
Wireless is wonderful….when it works well. Valid arguments for both. A good wifi scanner app can avoid a disaster and wireless mike receivers with scanning software are very useful as well. Enjoyed your content 👍
Completely agree. Life has gotten better since we got a WiFi app. We’ve been very fortunate with our wireless mics.
I use X32 ipad app. The same distance where you had strong signal in an empty venue can have packet drops once the crowd comes in. The changes you make on the app will not actually apply on the console. On another occasion, my old XR18 failed on me. I had to hard reset in the middle of a show. Behringer replaced the complete board under warranty, but that show was awful. Not to mention I lost a client.
You both have nice presentation skills. Great video!
Thank you for the compliment....we are learning and worked hard on this one so we appreciate it.
Yeah, I think it's almost imperative to have a hard wired back up that you can access if wireless flakes out. I know couple of guys that run cat 5 directly to the computer out front, but in that case, I would probably fall back to a console if I need to run cable like that.
Resetting in the middle of a show is not good....we have had some really close calls over the years and some Oh F**ck! moments were I wasn't sure what the next moves was....no fun at all.
Hey guys, old school analog guy. Got BA in music and sound recording ‘96.
Just dable now, own an analog pa, outboard gear, etc…
Anyway, I’d like to see a full set-up, mics, cabling , anything that might be beneficial to the new school, you know what I mean.
Thanks for your videos, I really enjoy them
Keep watching! We try to bring up different aspects of production with each video!
I use both tools as well, depending on the show. Tablets are great for dialing in wedges on stage; you can stand right next to the performer rather then 40 feet away off stage.
Yes...beats shouting across the room! + you can hear what is going on, like if a monitor is on the verge of feedback...can't always hear that sort of stuff from 40 ft away.
So, my quandary of whether or not to go to a rack mixer/tablet combo or get a digital board is now more or less resolved. I need both!!
Now to convince my wife...
Glad we can enable you on that. As for your wife, show her our videos and tell her “see… Stacy goes along with it!”😂
@@thesoundcouple lol - I should be able to pull it off, but I'm keeping your video queued up just in case 😀
I myself love smaller foot print mixers like the X32 or M32, I used the Si Expression for years.. Now for what I currently do the Behringer XR18 and X32 Rack are my mixers of choice. Typically I will run an eithernet or procat out to front of house...
There are a lot of options available, that's for sure. For as much as we all like wireless, there is something to be said about that physical cable that still needs to be there sometimes.
Look I really don’t use tablet mixing console like presounus 32 here’s why those consoles are good for small rooms or hotels but I wouldn’t imagine coming to a big gig like festivals or a concerts in big halls or big ball rooms with a tablet there’s one thing you don’t really have to be in the center to be controlling your if you know how to manage your sound and make it sound good and have good hearing in equalizing a band you don’t need to be in the center you could also be next to the stage that’s my perspective RV ENTERTAINMENT keep up the good work guys you guys are amazing we all have different perspectives Keep it up guys
Thanks for sharing your perspective....lots of good points and you are right, once you have things in perspective, it matters less where you are.
When by myself, I like my tablet to set monitors and only mix house on it for corporate gigs or when it’s my only option.
I’m looking for that Apple Pencil for my IPad Air Gen. 1, that I saw you use.
I have to say that the pencil made a huge difference for me. Takes some getting used to, but it's darn near 100% on every move you make. However, heed the last tip...make sure you are disciplined where you put all of this stuff. If I had a nickel for every time I misplaced that damn thing on a stage. Now, it's either in my hand, or it goes on top the laptop....period.
I honestly can't image mixing an entiere show on a tablet, i love having the laptop connect to the console for setting scribble strips and finetuning the monitor mixes. i usually make a rough monitor mix on the console, because its super fast and then go to the stage to finetune the mixes. One of the major advantages for me of fader consoles is that i can do all of basic adjustments w/o lookin at the console which allows me to maintain eye contact, which i think is important as it makes the band feel valued and suggests that you are doing everything in there power to make them sound good. And i love the fact that your in a fixed location so that if anybody(producers, the next band) can find you easly to talk to you. But i see your point that it isn't for every situation. The thing i just can't stand is an analouge console as it makes mixing a pure chore for me.
Good point on keeping your head up on the console...impossible on a tablet. Taking it one step further, if you ever listen to Dave Rat talk about mixing the Chile Peppers, that is a big reason why he didn't go digital because he wanted to mix by feeling knobs and faders and not look at a screen. He actually places the console to the side and mixes with no work lights...he also does not label the channels! Talk about having an intimate connection with the console :)
Great video VERY GOOD - BRAZIL
Thank you very much!
Great video. I do a hybrid. I always setup my x32 Compact at the side of the performance area connected to a router so I can remotely control it via iPad. I generally do most of the mixing via iPad walking around but definitely need the hard wired console as a fall back. As we all know sometimes the wireless connectivity is terrible and I’ve been burned by wireless only mixers. I don’t mind lugging the x32 Compact. if things go sideways I’d rather have the physical control vs. faders on a computer but it’s all personal preference.
Appreciate your balanced comment. Nothing wrong with this approach at all...probably what we would do if we didn't have a rack mixer.
@@thesoundcouple I was thinking about the x32 rack for a while. I was going to supplement that with one of Behringer's little wired external controllers but eventually decided not to. I think I needed to use the funds for another project. lol.. such is life. =)
I went to tablet with the 32R, after most of my gigs with the QU-16 were done on my tablet anyway!
We like the convenience of our tablet mixer. If you watch any of our console mixer videos, we tried to emulate the the same ease by popping a couple covers!
Love your videos. Keep em coming. How do you guys deal with feedback?
Thanks for watching! We are planning future video on how to deal with feedback as it's an important topic. In general, it is important to understand the common trigger feedback frequencies and memorize the pitch of at least those. Then, when you hear it, isolate the source and notch those frequencies out. Also, an RTA and spectrograph is very helpful to visually see frequencies as well once you are able to identify the source. Last, where speakers are positioned is important too. The more you can keep microphones out of direct site of a speaker, the better.
You guy's are great. When you going to a gig you prepare before the gig. That is a good thing. I learned over the years that, when a person come to me and say... "hey men great sound" then i did okay. When a person say.... "hey men sounds terrible" then i did something wrong. But... and this is always a very thrue issue .... every person have different ears and therefore they experiance sound differend. Professionals or none professionals that does not matter. I have one question.... do you use templates before starting on tablet mixing ? I learned that it is much faster when doing the line and soundcheck.
Thanks you for your insights and comments. Yes, we have a video here where we went over some show prep: czcams.com/video/vD0SSN98nDU/video.html Prepping is a huge part of making our gigs less stressful. We have a video coming soon covering a gig where prep was a necessity!
Hi guys! Quick question. I binged watched you guys and don't know where to go back to look for the answer, but, I love the way Stacy runs your lights wirelessly with an iPad. What device are you using to connect the iPad to the lights and what program are you using on the iPad? Thank you for the help.
Thanks for asking Harlan! We use Luminair iPad app for lighting control, which is connected to our wi-fi router. Connected to the wi-fi router is an Enttec ODE DMX conversion which translates the Luminaire commands to DMX control. It's a very reliable system and once we got through the programming stage, now Stacy just presses on our preset scenes on the iPad. It is on the top of our list to do a video on this topic!
The hybrid console your referring to at the end of the video would be the xtouch on conjunction with a tablet...currently I would say this is the closest thing on the market to what your after
Well, we can always dream!
Can you tell me how to hard wire a studio live mixer 16.0.2 to a laptop/pc, then connect to a iPad?
Sorry, I am not able to confidently answer your question.
Have You Tried Midas M32C For Any Of Your Shows?
No, we have not. We have the s16's and the S32, but we have have not even used our Behringer rig now for awhile! The primary reason is because we really prefer the PreSonus for mix management...providing IEM's, etc. is easier for us.
Not sure if someone already mentioned but another con for a tablet is soloing in headphones
Yes, that is true. However, there are some options....we use wireless Sennheiser headphones which work well if in proximity. Another option could be a wireless IEM system. What we have works well for us in most situations but it doesn't beat the feeling of sitting behind the console for sure.
What kind of wireless mixer do you use and why did you choose that particular one over others?
We choose Presonus over other rack mixers first because they are the only manufacture that offer a 2 rack space 24 & 32 channel mixer. We have been using their mixers for just over 10 years through three generations of them and they get the job done. However, I wouldn't blame anyone for getting tired of some of the AVB flakiness which we have shown on some of our videos....this needs to get better, like yesterday. Also, it's unfortunate that they are not investing in more software development. In my opinion, if the software/firmware was better, that would allow them to compete with mixers above their class because the hardware is that good.
@@thesoundcouple Thank you for the detailed response, I really appreciate it. I had been looking at the personus and at the soundcraft UI24. Been trying to figure out which one would be more reliable.
@@stonejr74 You're welcome...as far as reliability, we had one issue with our old RM32 and they fixed it fast. Other than that, we haven't had any issues with our mixers.
What is best option ipad 128 Gb 256 or more for this works if i have 4 apps with 4 consoles
The console control software, like UC Surface, is in the Megabytes for size, so the apps take little space and shouldn't be a factor when you are considering how many Gigabytes you need....either would be more than plenty I would think with any console control app.
@@thesoundcouple thanks so much, ..... I like your videos :)
I'm sure it has been answered before. But what iPad models do you all use?
I'm in the process of expanding my rig and my Samsung tablets are getting old.
We have 3 to choose from:
1. iPad Pro - Our default and works good. Power cycling it occasionally between gigs seems to stabilize wi-fi connectivity.
2. MS Surface Pro - Nothing wrong with this one either. Pencil is not as precise...newer models could be better?
3. Amazon Fire - Very good value and works well for us. You could buy multiple of these for the price for either one above.
@@thesoundcouple are you pleased with the Amazon tablet battery life?
I'm leaning towards getting a standard iPad 10.9".
@@theflyingalamo I think for the money, the Amazon tablet is an excellent value. The battery is totally acceptable in its performance.
What would be a good four channel mixer that is tablet controlled?
Man, I am really not sure. I haven't researched that format. Hopefully, someone can chime in!
Have a look at the smaller Behringer XAir mixers such as the XAir12- very affordable but also budget for a good wireless router - don’t rely on the built in one at a gig.
Our church's FOH position is not in a good location and is outside of the speaker's coverage area. Therefore I mix using a tablet every week so that I can sit in the speaker coverage area. I've been doing this for YEARS now. That being said, I would much rather have physical faders under my fingers and I look forward to the day that the church can remodel the sanctuary and change to location of FOH to a proper location.
"Proper Location" is the key....I would much rather mix from a tablet so I can mix in a good location instead of being tied to a console at a compromised location. That said, you can develop a reference point and in some cases, you will see me occasionally hanging out on the side of stage because I have developed that reference point. I would think that would be easier to accomplish a reference point in a fixed install l, but it's not the way I would want my job to be either.
Have you ever use analog on your sound system
For our own production, no. We have been digital for 10 years now and sold all of our analog consoles and outboard gear.
What wireless mics do you use ?
We use Shure ULXD4Q with Shure Beta58 capsules. You can check out our "About' to get more info on the gear we use on a regular basis. Thanks for watching!
Does your stage router pro have 1 gbps LAN port or 100 mbps?
Yes Sir! google "nowsonic" and check out their website for all of the specs.
@@thesoundcouple I bought the non-pro version, it said 10/100/1000 on website, but actually it is only max to 100mbps. That's why I asked if the pro version is better.
@@maizesoft Got it..I connect the MacBook with an Ethernet cable to the NowSonic. I will check what the port speed is the next time I fire it up. Thanks.
@@maizesoft Yeah, mine is only 100 as well. I never knew!
@@thesoundcouple thanks for checking. For controls it’s fine, but not good for live streaming
I've been to many events where the FOH position is alongside the stage, and they're on a console...once the position is assumed they stay there...only a handful times have I seen a mix engineer move their ass away from the console and listen to front of house properly. I've heard gigs that are run with premium rung gear sound like garbage, all because they're not listening properly to everything that's going on. I strongly believe you cannot mix a gig on headphones; you can get things into a ballpark but there's a lot you don't hear. Right now, I do all of my gigs on a console. Until I upgrade my mix system to something more recent, that's how it's going to have to stay for the moment. I'll probably still use a console at every opportunity I can (I mix a lot of Theatre and speech events), but I'm looking forward to tablet mixing. I'm not looking forward to the WiFi challenges though...
I have also heard of guys using a wedge for them to monitor the main mix off the side of stage. Never done that.
Wifi issues are not fun and our goal in 2022 is to manage it more proactively. I have definitely seen it get more challenging over the past couple years.
Y’all have a x32 also?
LOL! Yes! Gotta know the SM58 of the console world! I have no issues with the X32 as well and there are definitely some nice features. As everyone knows, it's a great console for the money. We do use it on occasion, just hasn't made it to any videos yet.
@@thesoundcouple I was surprised to see u have one because I know the channel is mostly presonus but I love x32 also for the price that’s why I have the x33 full size and the rack
@@isaiahalexander6021 Can't argue with you on that!
@@thesoundcouple Now I can’t wait to see y’all pull that console out lol and I have a different question what kinds of microphones y’all running?
@@isaiahalexander6021 With our mic package, for vocals, we use Shure SM/Beta 58's. Instruments are Shure 545SD or Sennheiser 609. Drums: Sennheiser 604 for snare/toms. Shure Beta 52/EV 868 for kick. Oktava MSP2 for HH/ovhd. We also carry Shure SM/Beta 57's.
I noticed you guys do a lot of bands alot to you ever get to DJ sometimes have you ever done birthday party weddings to DJ
Never got into the DJ realm. I do believe there are some missed opportunities here for some hybrid approaches to expanding services. If we were just starting up, this would be a consideration for business strategy, but we have enough going on right now with what we are doing.