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How I Gain-Stage My Busses
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2022
- Free 5-Step Mix Guide here: www.5stepmix.com
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Getting gain right changed my life. It gave me that track that sounds like it's rocking but also constrained in a space it's trying to get out of but can't. One day just for a goof I selected every track of a hot mix and turned the gain down 2.4 and it was like magic, suddenly everything just came together. Changed everything to finally learn this.
I just enjoy hearing brother Joe explain what he has learned over the years. He has a normal guy approach. Nothing flashy, just a guy at the house flat out blessings our socks off. I have been in this business since I was 13, I am now 66. That means that I have forgotten a whole lot! I am the live stream guy at our church and STILL having trouble! So when things get you frustrated, Just go to brother Joe. God bless y’all. Thank you Joe for all you do for us.
I don’t know why, but when I saw your face in the thumbnail, I realized it has been a while since I’ve seen one of your videos come across my feed! Good to see you again, Joe!
For the Mastering question:
It´s also usefull to use the Project page, because you can effect multiple songs or listen to them more easaly than if you Master on your main out. This is great for keeping one tone of a specific artist througout the Album or to have your songs match better. It helps to create a recognizable mix on all your songs!
I do the exact same thing in Studio One. Allows a lot more headroom in the mix.
I also do that when recording and for live too! Works great!
Gregor's speaking behind your tuto hehe 😆 remember ? But so true. Thx
A good tip I'd forgotten. I used to do the same as a rule of thumb. Always make sure you have your gain stage correct. And I always aimed my faders at zero because of the headroom you have then with the faders.
Fader resolution is one thing, but another reason to gain stage the signal before the fader is for the insert vsts to work better, since not all of them are linear, and are calibrated for a certain level. For me, the safe zone is -18dBFS RMS (not peak) to start with, which is generally considered a safe zone for most non-linear VSTs.
I agree with you. The way Joe's set it up here it's gonna be a faff through any plugins that have any saturation characteristics baked in. I hit every plugin at it's preferred gain before getting a working level at the fader. Bad advice IMHO.
Was just gonna ask a recommendation on the vu dbfs to use but yea i use -18 too sometimes-12
simple answer:
gain stage into analog gear or plugins. if you process single track, gain stage it to roughly 0 VU RMS, if you're processing busses, gain stage into them to 0 VU RMS. it's simple, you just need two volume (gain) plugins, one before the desired plugin(s), one after to compensate. reason is analog-modelled software is calibrated at 0 VU.
As always, thanks for your knowledge and insight!!
Excellent explanation, thanks!
It's the 'simple' topics that have deceptive nuances that are taken for granted by the more experienced and can frustrate the newbie (aka me!) to grasp.
Nothing left assumed here, great comprehensive tutorial.
Cheers from Ireland!
Also for the sweet spot of some plugins is better not to hit them so hard, also the tape plugins generally at -18 vu to achieve the analog style
This is the way it’s done using a physical console to maximize headroom (minimize circuit noise). I also think it sounds best to keep the overall mix bus input level around -5dB or so to leave headroom for final processing, even in the digital domain.
You are the man sir thank you! 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks Joe
I have listened to this discussion multiple times with other Podcaster, but you have explained it with the most clarity! Great Explanation.
Thanks for the explanation ! Very useful stuff !
This is the most I have seen of Studio One. I really dig how clip gain and phase are right at the top of the channel strip! Logic and Ableton need to take note.
Great video great sounds great audio music. Drummer great show
Very useful. I will try this-thanks!
Joe, you da man!
Thank you so very much!
Good morning Joe
Great step by step explanation.The details of your approach is I think spot on. They give you directional freedom to fix bug-a-boo’s in a mix, without boxing yourself into a corner.great explanation, not to wordy. Just detailed and accurate 👍
Hi if you press and hold down the SHIFT Key on a windows computer you can move the Fader with the Mouse in 0.1 db increments no matter where the Fader is currently positioned. Not sure if it’s the same for Mac. This is really useful for making micro db adjustments. And of course the logarithmic fader Law no longer exists. Try it it’s great.
Yep.
Sure and that's very cool when your faders are low, but having faders near unity by default is better :)
Cool, thanks! I have been mixing live bands like that for decades. I have also applied that to the power amplifiers. I set my main level to (approximately) 0, and turn up the amplifiers to suit my volume needs. 👧
In Reaper I always start a project similarly but my first step is to normalize to a LUFS level I choose. It's a one step process that can do all tracks at one time. Then if they still need a little balancing I only need to make minimal adjustments to the gain knobs. Everything else is identical to your approach.
I used to do that (except that i was using dbFS peak value and not LUFS) but now i clip gain ("item/take volume" in Reaper) each track until it looks right on the VUmeter of said track (when the fader is at unity, or the VUmeter is set to "preFX").
Every plugin has a sweet spot and every bit of hardware has a sweet-spot, the top producers know how to enter each unit and plug in at its sweetest point, that's why there mixes are magical.
You hit a piece of hardware or a vst too low or too hot, you miss that opportunity to benefit from its sweetzone.
Gain-staging is like a tap, you wash your hands under a tap too cold with little water coming out, its not effective, you wash at a tap flowing too hard and boiling hot, its all over your pants and your hands get burnt.
A balance of hot and cold and a steady flow, is how to effectively wash your hands.
Gainstage pre fx, post fx, pre bus and post bus to effectively keep the mix sweet.
Some plugins. Not every plugin.
Would have been great if you would have played the drums at least so we could get a visual of where you had your drums sitting at db-wise.
Or better yet, all of your instruments. Like, it would be great to get a general idea / visual of where each of the instruments were sitting db-wise or where you personally like to keep each instruments db-wise.
Kindly requesting a video as a new subscriber.
🙏🏻🤟
I would just love to spend a day with you at the studio, you really like a nice guy to hang around and learn from. You are talented in teaching audience in a simple and home-feeling way.
I may adjust input gains to get my familiar session fader shapes.
Awesome video as always! What are you using to record your videos that let's you zoom in and out on the desktop?
Because you mentioned the input gain control in this video - the input gain doesn't have a command for macros. I know macros are more Gregors thing, but it would be a great workflow enhancement
Hi Joe.....I've been doing recording & mixing since 1980, in MALAYSIA during analog time, Protools, Cubase 3, 5, 6, 9.5, 10.5, 12 & now Studio One 6. I always follow ur ways of Static mix, everything hv their own folder & buses. Then all busses will go to my Submix fader, b4 going to main mix. I will put MASTER BUS PROCESS if needed AT THE SUBMIX insert. This way, if my mix is to soft or too loud, I can just CONTROL AT THE SUBMIX fader b4 going to main mix, & this won't disturb any thresholds at the submix insert, cause that fader is a complete mix with bus process......My question is, IS THIS WAY BETTER OR WHAT??
Was looking to understand gain staging when we put on reverb and delays. it apparently boosts overall levels on the master.
Not exactly sure how to handle this.
On the reverb channel also the input levels should be around -18db? And how about output from reverb channel ? I would assume both have to be at around -18db..yes ?
Hey Joe...I just found your channel and have been watching some of your videos. Lots of good information. Anyway, I just watched the 5-Step video series you have and in Mix Step 3, you start your static mix with all your track faders pulled down and build your initial mix up from there. I just finished watching this one and you're talking about keeping your faders close to zero and adjusting the gain knobs of the individual tracks. Have you changed your philosophy on how you build a static mix?
Interested in this too.
Maybe one way to go around it is to to the faders to -inf and then balance thing first, and then in a second time pulling all the faders closer to unity.
Hi Joe, Love your videos. Quick question: I’ve seen some composers talking about adjusting overly hot samples in Kontakt before the audio ever get’s to the DAW. Any benefit to doing that instead of doing it on the track gain or on the bus?
Prechannel levels should only be adjusted during the static mix phase before adding any plugins to your channels. If you adjust Prechannel levels after you have inserted plugins you will likely have to start adjusting your plugin settings again , especially on compressors and dynamic eqs. Once channel plugins have been inserted, its best to adjust individual volumes using the channel fader.
Yes, I dont think he mentioned this. Or when using an amp sim, lowering pre gain (I think of it as trim) would send less level into the amp=less grit.
Or add mixtool after the amp sim to adjust levels, leaving faders at zero still.
Should i gain stage in aux send / fx send track?
Hi joe, I am a reaper user and on track basis I use clip gain. I also check my metering a lot pre-fader. One thing though, when filling up your buses, aren’t you clipping the input of your bus channel with the “massive” signal? I usually end all tracks fairly quiet (faders at unity though) while elevating pan law also weakens the signal on your bus (in reaper that is)
same for me, but i think the solution is just to insert a gain trim plugin at the first plugin of your bus, to adjust its input level, as suggested in the following video around 07:15 :
czcams.com/video/UvclmTMmGv0/video.html
BUT then it changes the level of your bus in the entire mix, so whee do you compensate for that level change ? Bus fader ? Because then you risk "low fader syndrome" and not having your fader near unity before using it for level balancing in the mix ... So maybe you add another gain plugin at the END of your bus FX chain to compensate for that level change ?
Hi Joe, how can i see the bus folder in the mixer?
Ins't the input gain the same as your audio interface input gain meaning would you risk clipping or does it fall immediately after recording since the recording is already there?
Which is effectively gain staging which in another video you said you don't do. 🤔
Why wouldnt you utilize the clip gain for gain staging? Why are you telling ppl to move the faders for gain staging? I'm not sure, but nothing of what you said has made sense for gain staging.
Why on earth are there at 100 tracks? I never understood why I record that sounds simple. Has 64 tracks. There is a kick drum snare, pets keyboard, lead bass, guitar, vocal background, vocal, maybe. But that’s still roughly 25 tracks. What am I doing with the other 75 tracks?
Glad it's not just me that makes the faders almost redundant... 🤣
I’ve had a question about studio one for some time but not sure how to reach out to ask it, but for some reason I’ve not been able to rename tracks or busses since I pay updated the software. Im wondering if it’s because I’m running two screens with the faders on one and the tracks on another for editing, or if it’s because I have the track info window open (where I CAN rename tracks but not busses). I felt like this is a good video to ask on since it pertains to using busses for mixing and I’m at risk of being confused if I don’t take manual notes
Yeah I've never heard of that. Submit a support ticket at my.presonus.com.
When gainstaging do I gainstage without any effects on the buschannels or do I keep the effects on while gainstaging?
I would check and adjust gain the first time "dry" (without plug-ins enabled). Otherwise, you're getting a gain level that X number of plug-ins are possibly adding in as well. Just myself, I'm also checking levels after each plug-in is enabled if it's inserted or per effect bus if it's a send group effect (like my delay/reverb send).
@@DeltaWhiskeyBravo13579 Thank you so much, it is what I have been doing, thank you for confirming!
@@arbnorshaqiri you're welcome
I also mix like this, but Logic doesn’t have input gain on each track. I have to add gain plugins to all my tracks and then open each one whenever I need to change the input gain. Awesome to see Studio One has input gain directly on each track.
Can't you change the gain on the audio clips ("items" in reaper) themselves ? I do that in Reaper, and it also has the benefit of "gain-staging" the waveform :)
@@djabthrash Thanks for that. I could do it that way, but I prefer to keep clip gain for when I want to change level on individual clips. Just personal preference.
@@rohankayYT I'm pretty sure you can do a first pass of clip gain for overall gain-staging, and then do a second pass to change level on individual clips.
Just sayin'
@@djabthrash Yep, could do that. Don’t want to.
@@rohankayYT fair enough :)
everyone knows you should color drum tracks red...GAW!😀
no man
engineers always sound like mad scientists. It seems like they over complicate everything. Almost like some sort of mental thing for lack of a better word. A mix could be perfect to my ear, which is untrained like most of the music consumers, but to an engineer, they can sit there and twist and tweak knobs for a month for no reason because we never hear the difference lol when I mix my music I don’t know decibels and all of these technical terms I turn it up. Turn it down I fade it left or right I like how it sounds. I’m done. Lol..
Your mic audio is brutal...you should fix this!
First 😁
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