NZXT is Irresponsible & Dangerous: H1 Riser Fire Hazard Should Be Recalled
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- We believe the NZXT H1 case PCIe riser poses a long-term risk in the event metal screws find their way into them. NZXT needs to fix this beyond just plastic screws. Use code THISISFINE for 10% off a GN toolkit, mouse mat, or other items: store.gamersnexus.net/
NZXT RESPONDS: • NZXT Responds to GN's ...
Watch part 1 here: • Unsafe Computer Catche...
Although some people have complained of the NZXT H1 overheating, others had more literal issues with overheating. In part 1, we showed how the NZXT H1 case's PCIe riser has the potential to cause a fire. This is something that NZXT itself formally stated at the end of November, but it's still rolling-out fixes now entering 3 months later. NZXT previously noted the US Consumer Product Safety Commission got involved and that the two parties settled on a nylon screw "fix" or "repair kit" for the NZXT H1s that are in the field. We're concerned that (1) a lot of people have voiced online, shown in this video, that they've been waiting multiple months for these simple nylon screws, and (2) this is not the root cause of the issue, which is the PCIe riser. If someone ever uses this riser again and out of context (whether they forgot why the nylon screws were there, never knew why, or bought it second-hand), it's possible that a fire will burn-up whatever GPU is plugged into it. The more connection cycles these PCIe risers go through, the more risk there is, by our testing.
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 | Fire Hazard Conclusion First
07:09 | The "New" NZXT H1 & "Fix"
08:15 | NZXT Didn't Even Install it Properly
09:40 | Developing a Hypothesis
11:23 | Inspecting the Fire Damage
11:40 | Patrick is Disappointed - We're So Proud!
12:37 | Science Experiment
15:15 | Screw Movement Causes Sporadic Shorts
16:47 | Point Proven
19:57 | Let's Start Another Fire (Safely)
21:10 | Building a Fuse
22:25 | 54-Amp Short (Clamped!)
27:20 | That's Not Good
28:05 | Conclusion Part 2 - How It Malfunctions
30:54 | Inspecting the PCIe Riser Screw Hole
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Host, Research, Editor: Steve Burke
Test Engineering: Patrick Stone
Test Diagnostics: Patrick Lathan
Camera Operator & Editor: Andrew Coleman
Editor & QC: Keegan Gallick - Hry
Use code THISISFINE for 10% off a GN toolkit (now in stock & shipping, as well as previous back-orders!), mouse mat, or other items: store.gamersnexus.net/
NZXT RESPONDS: czcams.com/video/ZnDWxiFvUtE/video.html
Watch part 1 here: czcams.com/video/9XIKOSrQdQ0/video.html
This is the second appearance for Patrick Stone. He has helped occasionally behind the scenes for about 8-9 years now, but just joined our team officially. We're really excited to have him. He is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher (and former network engineer), and it really shows in this content. Hope you all liked having some additional technical detail provided by him!
This is fine 🐶🔥. 🤣
Clearly NZXT isn’t the only one throwing out memes out there 🤣
That's some quality shade
Developers should take notes from content like this. It only benefits them.
Waiting for series x.😃
NZXT are crossing you off their Christmas card list as we speak
😂😂😂
I'll race you to see who gets blacklisted by the whole industry first. We've both got ASRock in common!
I'm new here... So what's the story with ASRock? 🙄
@@GamersNexus it's a speedrun
@@A.Akbar1983 ASRock were shitty that they called them out on their shitty Z490 boards
Steve enabled rage mode in the bios
😂
Lmao
I was thinking the same thing
Archer: RAMPAGE!!!!!!!!
@Gamers Nexus, UGH will NEVER buy an NZXT product ever with that kind of lazy response and PR spin. Going elsewhere thx!
I was told that this was the hottest case on the market right now. Turns out - my Intel was correct.
now your Intel is on fire, try switching to AMD
@@elektra81516 swap to amd ul be on fire more then this case
@@Metabrotropic nah, an oced 10900k can easily get to 100°, even the 5800x is way cooler than this
@@teralio9940 this isn't Bulldozer anymore... AMD isn't "hot" compared to Intel. Gtfo
TAKE MY 400TH LIKE
Ok, manufacturers. When reviews turn into an episode of Electroboom... you have a PR problem on your hands.
The corpo PR did not speculate how blunt and bold gamernexus would be.
Should've known when he said their "i" version of casings are useless piece of shits.
Looks like it's ready to blow up in their face
Absolutely, lol the incompetent designer needed to watch more @electroboom
Lol great channel, but sadly you're 100% right.
If I saw those plastic screws I would almost be guaranteed to think that the manufacturer cheaped out, or that a previous owner did not have the right screws, and I would replace them with proper ones made out of metal. That "fix" is no such thing.
Same. I’ve replaced plastic screws in the past due to them being utter shit.
same
Why is this wobbling?
*Tightens screw.*
*SNAP*
now I have to go find a real screw.
"proper ones"
If I didn't know about it I'd 100% swap it with a metal screw.
However I do know about it, so it just makes me mistrust all NZXT products if they're not going to recall shockingly poor design.
If my government knew about this they'd force a recall. There could be many legal repurcussions if they don't disclose and rectify.
NZXT ignores Gamers Nexus
Steve: So you've chosen death.
brilliant
Nzxt should be losing gamers respect as a quality part maker. Its pathetic
I love it when Steve rips companies apart when they deserve it, especially after ignoring his advice when he's clearly right.
NZXT ignores even their customers... My RGB fans stopped functioning and they isolated the issue as hardware failure and then they started ignoring. Now they stopped responding to my email. This is pathetic customer service!!
*Strokes beard*
I live how Steve is slowly building himself a consumer protection lab in his studio. Seeing 3 people huddled around the PCH with multimeters and high magnification camera setups and surgical lighting is wonderful.
I'm normally just a lurker, and no one will probably see this, but this just made me straight up sick to my stomach. This is gross negligence at the highest level. As many others have pointed out, 10 cases are 10 too many. The sheer fucking incompetence and carelessness displayed here should be all the evidence anyone ever needs. They say they can't see what the problem is, yet they ship nylon screws. I am never buying an NZXT product till the day I die
I am also a lurker, and congrats on the likes 👍🏻
Also I’ll be doing the same. I’ve never seen a PC company pull this kind of crap.
It really is baffling that registered companies such as them are legally able to sell fire hazard products? What if I child is building his first computer and leaves it on over night? The house could burn down and the child could be fatality hurt, this needs legal attention, and the products should be banned.
@@reposter6434 not only a child. If i build a new computer and i put it on and leave it running my house can burn down, could also kill anyone including kids in the house, or the house of the neighbours. And its not that they didnt know. And its not something i would actually think about. I leave my pc running a lot even when im not around to dowload a game for example. Wich would be very likely on a new build pc. You just build it, it posts and so you start it up and let the thing install al the things you want on it and you can do something else in the meantime. Now appearantly you cant because it might catch fire...
@@gabbermaikel this is true, it's reasons such as this that console players mainly stick to there LIMITED! console, and tbh I can see why, if companies can't be trusted to make safe working componenets why should they? Not saying all the brands are bad, it's meerley just this one, however new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget, and this is the type of thing new builders will choose, it's not safe and shouldn't be on the market, plain and simple.
@@reposter6434 What do you mean with "new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget" If you mean that new builders tend to go with a more low budget spec for their build then i could possibly agree yes. But if you got for a budget spec build you wil NEVER EVER touch a nzxt H1 as they are €350. I think that is actually in the top of the range price wise. And yes i know, it includes the aio cpu cooler and the power supply. But there are a lot of cases that would come in a lot cheaper then this even if you bought a expensive psu and a 240mm aio cooler(and this only has a small aio)
I feel like lately, a lot of companies are just trying to clown in twitter rather than professionally do their work outside of social media...
It'd be fine, if they didn't also bring the clowning into their marketing, customer service and business ethics. But I guess all hope is lost for companies like NZXT
I've known a few social media managers, it's just as likely a case of "customer support won't respond to our emails either so all I have for you is memes"
NZXT is one of the worst offenders their Twitter is a joke.
it's cheaper: lowest possible margin is the professional business way... even if it kills people.
Being a meme is fine if you do it like Wendy’s. But there’s a balance to be had between memeing for the sake of amusement and internet marketing and being professional when there’s an issue faced by customers and the like.
NZXT failed in this aspect.
I have been designing PC Boards for 20+ years and this problem should have never occurred. Internal traces and copper planes must have a minimum clearance of 1mm from the board outline (includes mounting holes). This PCB design would never have passed a standard design rule check. This is a poor design with insufficient rules. NZXT should fix this issue immediately with a recall of the product.
You are 100% right. It also may have happened that the hole was too small for the screw that they put originally so even if there was some clearance the PCB was chewed by the threads.
All PCBs I've designed have no traces nor planes whatsoever (except GND) not only certain distance from the edges but also not under whole head of the screw.
Yeah, it’s very puzzling. I’ve seen custom PCB manufacturer (who often deal with noobs) reject client’s design for this kind of simple mistakes, very easy to check.
I don't even know why the 12 V is even there to begin with. The PCB is little more than an interconnector between the Cables and the Socket. None of the Traces need to be longer than a few mm, maybe with the exepion of Ground, which you might want to put on a different Layer for shielding. But why bother, when the Socket isn't shielded, so why is a thace there and +12V of all things. Seems like a Rookie mistake which got approved somehow.
I'm wondering if this isn't so much an issue with the design, but potentially the manufacturing? Sure there are problems with the overall design, but could the tolerances be off in their manufacturing process? And, hypothetically assuming that is the case, are there typically any kind of QC or QA testing for something like this on a finished product or is it not usually necessary?
@@CreativityNull i’d say it’s solely a design error. PCB manufactures have very tight tolerances, otherwise you’d have wrong traces/shorts elsewhere. The decision to have the 12v plane going so close to the screw hole is a (not good) decision when you lay out the PCB in cad software, so whoever designed this did not take it into consideration
Send this video to UL and US National Fire Protection Agency. The biggest concern for UL is fire.
What is UL ? (sorry, I'm not American)
@@fridaycaliforniaa236 UL is a safety testing lab. In the US we don't require UL like Europe Requires CE. The situation is you can be more easily sued if you release a harmful product to the public. UL stands for Underwriter Laboratories, who comes up with safety standards like IEEE and NFPA, National Fire Protection Agency, ANSI and ISO safety (and CE now) to determine safety tests and standards. A manufacturer gets certified to meet the standard if they choose, at their expense. A fundamental rule is a single point failure can NOT produce risk to the end user, most importantly, No FIRE. If your product is not UL, then the end user can not get insurance on their home/business as you are putting unsafe stuff in the building, so most manufacturer s get UL.
it was finally recalled by cpsc...
As an electrician, I find electronics so fascinating. This is where your knowledge of electrical theory and troubleshooting shines. I really appreciate Everyone in this video shedding light to the dangers of electricity, and how easily a happy moment could’ve turned out otherwise. Watching you guys work it out inspired me to build my first pc. Now I’m hooked.
I lost my mother and little brothers in a house fire when was a wee fella. The total disregard to a serious potential fire hazard from a large corporation just to save a few dollars really just makes me angry.. and to think they throw around the number "10" reported cases as little... that's 10 lives, 10 household, 10 families!! Won't be looking to buy nzxt products anytime in the near....wait, never! Keep up the great work lads.
10 fires for a unit that has barely hit the market - and at $350 is a low volume unit to begin with - is actually already alarming enough. Especially coming not from some kind of inherent difficulty, but from dumb engineering neglect and lack of validation, entirely avoidable.
I'm so sorry to hear that, Matt. You are absolutely right that "10" (or even 1) is not a small number when it comes to the potential of fire. Sure, the first few might have lost video cards, but if the conditions are there, losses could be homes, sentimental value, or in extremely unfortunate scenarios, lives. Thank you for sharing and for adding your voice. You have an important voice here as it is one that knows the severity. I appreciate you taking the time to write this comment.
@@GamersNexus how are you guys so professional? That is a very well written response right there on a very well written and tested video
Might have to show this to the retailer's here selling this case. Looks to me like that the case meets he definition of "electrically unsafe" www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763615.html
All companies make choices like this. We could make cars very safe in accidents by making them into basically tanks, but no one wants to pay the cost of making them into tanks.
Not the companies, not the end-user.
send it to rossmann we would love to hear him tell us every reason that they are stupid for 5 hours straight
Making 10 consecutive videos like with the gamestonks thing and comparing it to apple running a 50 volt line next to a cpu data line
@@irvingchies1626 was it CPU, I thought it was LCD that had a 50v line next to data
I won't buy nzxt ever.
@@quiveringcalm4697 It was a line going directly from CPU (or signal switch if you were lucky and had a separate GPU on board) straight to LCD.
YES
I lost a very good friend due to a house fire.... this whole issue gives me chills and pisses me off.
As being product liability investigator I completely understand and feel your passion! Wow ...Funny you mentioned the Ford Pinto defect. Our office worked this case back in the day and it was found to be a SHEET METAL SCREW, when rear ended, punctured the single walled fuel tank. Fuel tanks are now double walled. Our company worked directly for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Peterbuilt and several more back in the day. NZXT is NOT the only company to be mentioned here!! The manufacture of the cable needs to be at the forefront! JayZ is correct, companies unfortunately do not address the issue til the issue becomes financially larger then the fix! “AT THE PRICE OF A LIFE” on most cases. And yes ... how sad is that?!?! The proper statement for NZXT would have been “TEMPORARY FIX”.. what they should be doing is reaching out to customers and insisting they immediately stop using the product and return for repair OR refund no matter the cost! Attorneys list everyone associated with the company in lawsuits!! Even if they were no where connected to the defect. And now that you are addressing this, even in a positive way and we’re affiliated with NZXT, you would most likely be listed as well. How crazy does this sound? Very! It’s deep pockets.... anyone who has $$. You would most likely be dropped off the suit. Seen some crazy law suits. The plaintiff attorneys are like locus! NOT ONE LIFE SHOULD BE LOST PRIOR TO A MANUFACTURER TO TAKE ACTION ON A KNOWN DEFECT!!!!! It’s all about the $$. Companies knowing their product has a defect that can cause injury or death and not do anything bout it til the law suits come, is in my eyes, MANSLAUGHTER / MURDER. Good job Steve! You’ve made difference!
Reminds me of the waterslide "Verrückt" that decapitated a 10-year-old boy. It wasn't even designed by engineers; it was designed by the park owner. During testing, the rafts would go airborne, but they opened the ride anyways. They knew it was bad, but they didn't want to fix it out of greed.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how Steve and the GN team actually care about consumers and put it all on the line for them, great work guys shame on nzxt
Right? So glad I found GN will forever come here for whatever news, reviews, testing etc that they relase. full transparency on a professional level does nothing but promote sales (usually) shame on all these companies sucks that it always comes down to "us" having to hold the 'big dawg' accountable.
Yep. I ordered from GN and was honestly never going to otherwise. If you have disposable income you sort of have a duty to support good people or at least good deeds.
Meanwhile NZXT has lost me as a customer forever. That's the only solution to such recklessness and they should go out of business. This is a mistake that never should have happened in the first place let alone how they're handling it. It's akin to giving people rubber gloves because a product shocks them. I've probably purchased 90 NZXT cases over the years for personal and customer builds. No longer. I don't care what customers may want now. NZXT is finished.
Few channels would be willing to burn bridges like GN, they would kowtow to the corporations. Speaks volumes about GN's character that they are valuing safety more than dollars.
Cue applause! Way to go Steve and team.
An additional factor around the screw eroding the PCB material. That slot is expected to contain a heavy graphics card. The case is a small and relatively portable case. It's reasonable to expect that people may transport it to a friend's house, or similar. Vibration during transport may well cause progressive erosion of the hole, as it restrains movement of the graphics card.
Good point.
I am now kinda curious is a similar noob error can be found on NZXT's N7 motherboards.
And then the question is weather enough copper could be exposed to make a contact without a metal screw
Yes, shock testing was not done on that hastily chosen fix either. The screws will be loaded in shear by the graphics card weight. Nylon screws (especially ones stretched by over tightening) are not durable. Shock and vibe over time will lead to failure of the nylon screws and ultimately replacement by metal screws.
I'd say that depending on the actual weight of the graphics card such erosion/breakup could happen in virtually no time. It would only take the car bumping once on the road on whatever blockage that is there and you've got a riser card not only rendered useless, but instead turned into a blaze source.
"Use code THISISFINE"
I fucking love the tongue-in-cheek
This is going to be used as an example in a university PCB design class. It's just too perfect. "This is what can happen when you override your clearance rules"
It already was. i first saw this video on our first pcb design lecture at university. I study to be an electric engineer.
That was the most pissed off ad spot I've ever heard Steve deliver.
1: GPUs are heavy, you might not even need to unscrew the riser for the hole to degrade to the point where the 12V plane is exposed.
2: The 12V plane might make electrical contact with something even with the nylon screws if the hole is degraded enough.
3: The hole should be plated and grounded.
4: There should not be a 12V plane ANYWHERE NEAR A FUCKING SCREW HOLE.
With manufacturing variance as well, not all holes will align perfectly either on the riser or on the support it attaches too. Misalignment increases the likelihood of threads cutting into the board due to the lateral force. It's just not a safety first design.
A first year engineering student could design a better PCB. Source: Was telecom engineering student.
@@802Garage Shouldn't you be doing CPR on an old Japanese car right now?
Yeah, this is my concern. It may be uncommon, but someone moving one of cases around these around with a GPU causing the riser to wiggle around might change a unit from being very close to a short to shorting. Imagine a GPU in a riser travelling in a car from one place to another slowly nibbling away at the sub-millimeter distance between the screw and the 12V plane. It's essentially a shake-n-bake computer case.
@@Mountain-Man-3000
😂 First time I've heard that. Love it. And yes!
"To say that this pissed us off is a tremendous disservice to the actual emotions we felt here"
This is THE most eloquent way of articulating your emotional state I have ever witnessed. I will endeavour to utilise this verbiage henceforth good sir!
To me this looks like a 100% NZXT botch-up, not the riser card supplier's fault.
Seeing that there are multiple fixation holes in the card, I would argue that this is an off-the-shelf, general OEM product whose holes were not designed for screw assembly (probably rather for plastic pins). Also, the "PCB dust" is a clear sign that the holes are too small for the screws -they should only dig into the metal case, but never into the PCB. Screws work by pressing the PCB against the case with the force being created through the thread digging into the latter one, but never by forcing a counterthread through both components, because here one could never ensure a snug and flush fit and control the tightening force, which is a key parameter to warrant a correct fit. There's a good reason almost everyone (especially car manufacturers, but also your trusted mainboard or SSD brand) give you a torque value for tightening the screws.
So, total NZXT failure - designers integrating an unsuitable component, issue remaining undetected by design reviews and QA, PR disaster.
next email from NZXT
"Due to the current situation, we have decided to not send you any "FE" NZXT cases in the future.
We would be happy to revise it, should your editorial direction change.
NZXT"
would it help if they covered how beautifully the light radiating from the flames was ray traced?
Lol ! like GN cares anymore...... 😉
@@misterthegeoff9767 my iPad could only see that image @10fps, I need an nvidia gpu for this
They can do that... But that doesn't stop him from buying retail. 😂
this is going into disappointment PC 2021 and it's not even the end of January lmao
“...our ability to burn bridges...” and a riser cable is used as a bridge for a mobo and gpu. So good!
Oh thats classic 🤣
Their pun game has been noticably strong as of late. It makes me happy.
I will never, ever buy an NZXT case. Thank you for pointing out this dangerously defective product and the unbelievably faithless response by the manufacturer.
Their cases like the 710 and 510 and fine but their response is ehhh
@@venom9370 "Ehhh" is if they took a week to respond. This is all completely dangerous, childish bullshit from a company that would still love to be paid for it.
@@jonathanelliott1338 I meant it relatively
Engineer: " _how hot do you want your product to be_ ?"
Marketer : " _Burning hot_ 8) "
Engineer: " _uh... Ok_ "
More like
Marketer: Can we make it cheaper by not plating it?
Engineer: it could short, so I wouldn't recommend it
Marketer: who cares? Just make sure it doesn't touch it directly and start selling them!
I just went through a house fire in December (unrelated cause) and even when you dont lose every single item you own its still a nightmare. Suddenly I am displaced, I lost thousands in belongings, and where I set up my life is suddenly a black husk. Its not something id wish upon anyone. You are doing something important here for sure GN.
Devastating to hear these stories because we nearly had a bad one a few years ago. I know the fear but not the loss. I hope things will improve soon, and I appreciate your message.
House fires are *never* a laughing matter. I’ve lost a good friend of mine in a house fire caused by a faulty PSU in a desktop (this is why you don’t skimp on PSUs, guys).
Very disappointing to see NZXT treat this without the urgency and seriousness expected given what’s at risk
6 years ago our house burnt down, and the devastation it brings to your life is immeasurable. Family pets died and we lost everything. The whole family had to live in a 1 bedroom flat for a few months waiting for insurance and to rebuild the house. As the op said you're doing important good work
Hope things improve for you soon, sorry that happened to you bud
I wish you the very best pal, hope you recover very soon from this devastating event.
Wondering would GN have the honour of being blacklisted by yet another firm
Wear it like a badge of honor, pass it around and share it
@@GamersNexus I wanna hold it next !
Being blacklisted is a pro in this case. Potentially prevents your store buisness from burning down. And it costs less then fire insurance !
@@GamersNexus This needs to make it into a set prop in the background
I think NZXT is desperatly trying to get the January-Slot for the 2021 disappointment shirt.
It's not easy with everything that happend so far, but maybe they escalate it even further in February to grab that slot.
I guess we have to see and wait for what they are up to.
every prebuilt company should make their pcs like steve is buying them
There's a few things that are a bad idea in life, like pursuing Lu Bu in dynasty warriors, or cooking bacon with your shirt off. But one thing you *NEVER* do, is tell Steve that he's wrong about a PC case.
I'm genuinely surprised by the response by NZXT. I'd imagine that their legal department would be terrified over the potential liability in this situation, but apparently not.
I suspect that the "It was not being used as sold" defense would be used for that. Manufacturer can't be held responsible for your modified usage
Its all about money, risk of retaliation by lawsuit/fines vs how much it will cost to recall and fully fix. Any business does this all the time
no, I'm betting they did an analysis and calculated how many units sold vs how many building will burn down and said "This is fine"
@@chrisfortune1813 Considering that you have to set up and configure a case anyway, this wouldn't fly at all in front of a judge. That's like saying Lego kits could be defended with that.
@@afelias I was not trying to say they were right but pointing out a previously used and accepted defense of this type of this from other industries, notably the auto industry. An extreme example would be drinking bleach, the producer can't be held responsible for you if you do that even though it is physically possible to drink a fluid. This is why this kind of work by GN is so important, companies will take a fix that covers them rather than fix the problem if they think they can get away with it.
Product code "This is fine" hahaha
The MEME this is fine is one of my favorites and it fits so well for this NZXT product hahahahahahaha...
I was about to also comment on this lmfaooo
hahaha
"That's pretty cool"
GN needs to be more careful with its puns. Somebody could get burned.
I have one of these and its incredible how no one contacted me about this issue, hopefully, I found this youtube video in time to do something about it.
Just wanted to say thank you for all of your hard work in cracking down on this issue with NZXT. I got the nylon screws in the mail, installed them, and definitely felt like their "fix" was half-assed. Because of you guys, they are now sending me a replacement riser cable (which I really hope is PCIE 4.0). Groups like you are the reason that consumers can still get a fair shake. Cheers!
There are 2 fundamental flaws in the PCB. 1) The screw hole is not even a proper size for the screw being used. 2) There is no copper "keep out" around the screw hole. One of the first thing I was taught about creating PCB layouts was to place "keep outs" around holes and connectors where you do not want accidental contact. This is beyond lazy and is absolutely dangerous as has been demonstrated.
interesting..
That's NZXT for you.
and that's why they didn't put any plating in the screw hole, it would short the Damn thing, it's madness.
Yes, the part librarians should have added courtyard to the screw hole, but even with that, DRC on the drill lyr should have automatically pulled back the filled zones. My guess is they designed it with a smaller hole and then drilled a larger one in production.
@@endless2239 A plated through hole would not have had this issue, as it's got GND layer near power planes and that's like the first DRC rule you set (distance from filled zones to other nets). The issue here is that the through hole is unplated and it drills through a copper pour (filled zone) on another layer, which would not be caught by the edge cuts DRC, nor the filled zones / traces DRC (which would have caught the plated through hole). The issue is that they didn't pull back the filled zone based on the drill layer, which is pretty odd, IMO. I suspect they designed a smaller hole by mistake, everything passed DRC, but then they realized it was too small and upped the drill size in production or after the PCB was made as a sepearate step.
Anyone else love when Steve calls out these companies on their bullsh!t ? It’s incredibly entertaining and interesting.
it is, and it gives me immense respect for steve and the whole GN team. sub'd originally for the product reviews, stayed for the industry accountability pieces
It's why I like channels like Thunderf00t, also because raging nerds are great fun 😎
Or anyone else knowledgeable just shutting bullshitters down, especially when it also saves me money 🤘😁
Now if we only had a Steve for politicians.
@@ebolawarrior451 I think there's many politicians who start with the noble goals, but often they have to play the game to get into position to affect change. By the time the get to position they've become compromised. Moral leaders resign, so the selection bias of lifelong politicians are either those without major backbone or those who love the corruption.
Now the video is dead and people have forgotten.
This is some incredible investigative journalism and for anyone to say that CZcamsrs can’t be as such are inherently stuck within the past. Amazing work to Steve and your team. Your journalism combined with your technical knowledge can and WILL save many people from property destruction and injury/death!
3:56 Don't really think it was a "hotfix" if it didn't "fix" the "hot"
NZXT continuing to prove they have the hottest cases on the market
This legit would be a post on NZXT Twitter lmaooo
I have a feeling they will keep digging. NZXT don’t seem to understand how bad this will hit their reputation
"The company ignored us for seven days, then basically responded with a meme." So, NZXT support as usual.
Hello Games those that too, except for 700 days.
I don’t use the word ‘cringe’ very often, but their Twitter feed... holy shit.
Their instagram content and stories are also just memes, are all their employees 13 year olds?
And then in reply GN memed way better. "This is fine" promo code is awesome
One thing I've learned as I've gotten older is that companies never want to be accountable for their screw ups.
This is hardcore negligient. As someone who uses his home PC for work remotely I would be hella scared to have my computer at home be made of components by NZXT.
Big Yikes
Imagine shipping plastic screws instead of addressing the problem.
Plastic screws aren't that cheap as well...
cheapest and fastest "solution"
@@AaronShenghao 4 plastic screw is like 1dollar or less.
Well, plastic fix the problem.
They would need to properly design the PCB. Clearance hole that is larger than the used screw and use proper keepout zones to have no traces right next to the hole. Even the basic throughhole in EAGLE won't let you get close to it even with 0mil clearance rules. And DRC would scream at you anyway. So no idea how they even managed to spin up that board.
Customer: Hey NZXT, my house is on fire
NZXT: Just Blow Hard
*insert laugh track*
I'm wondering if all riser cards are built like this. NZXT might not be the only people who are making riser cards like this.
@@christopherkidwell9817 There are definetely products out there which do not have this problem.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Fortunately no. This is someone failing at safety testing of creepage during design. I wonder if they are UL rated under EN 61010 or EN 60950 or EN 62368, probably not.
Nice job.
18:26 your camera operator needs a raise for that ninja level zoom and focus action
lmao fr xD
Thank you for the time and effort you all put into exposing this hazard. You might have just saved some peoples' lives.
I like angry Steve. Angry Steve is justified and a hero.
Dude is no fucking hero
@@b85douglas more hero than you
@@b85douglas I don't even know your name lol
@@b85douglas You a NZXT employee?
@OGgieBOOgy302 without people like this you'd be spending your hard earned money on absolute trash. So at least acknowledge his persistent efforts if "hero" tilts you that much.
This puts your case thermal tests in a whole new perspective.
Lmao you made my day
Now that you said it...
Outstanding research and testing! I don't own one, but it's defiantly most important to reveal . Like y'all said "Over the years of use and then going to a second hand user", it's not safe at all. Thank you for all of the countless hours involved.
This is actually... pretty terrifying. Thanks for drawing it to the attention of consumers and the update of the official recall last week.
NZXT realized that their cases were already brick ovens, so they decided to make the H1 a literal pellet stove.
I mean... someone's gotta compete with the KFConsole right?
Rocket Stove!
Ah nice, we already have the first topic for the 2021 disappointment tour shirt
Thanks guys for this EPIC and informative video!! I have been considering buying parts for a new build and due to NZXT 'oversight', I have decided to exclude using ANY parts from them.
Thanks! I'm making a PCB for a student rocket and I just went in the EDA and plated the mounting holes, connected them to the ground plane.
And they hated Tech Jesus, for he spoke the truth.
Long live tech Jesus
Amen
What's happening here is a high impedance fault. The 12 volt rail near the screw is connecting to ground when the short is occurring. They are relying on the case being grounded and the screw being bonded to the case. The problem occurs because their is a weak connection to ground through the pcb to the screw and to the case. This creates a short to ground, but the resistance is too high to create enough current to trigger any over current protection. The screw hole should be shielded all the way through creating a strong connection to ground if there is a short. The 12 volt rail shouldn't be anywhere near that screw hole. This is a bad design. High impedance faults are dangerous because fires and electric shock will occur even when safety measures, such as fuses and circuit breakers are used. This being only 12 volts means you won't get a severe shock, but if you had this type of design flaw in a higher voltage device, such as a lamp or a toaster or a washing machine a person would be electrocuted to death if a short occurred. Even a circuit breaker or fuse would not save you. This pcie riser needs to be recalled right away.
Hi Roger. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise and knowledge. We can do decent troubleshooting, but don't have the vocabulary or EE foundation you seem to have. I really appreciate the extra knowledge. It may prove useful if we revisit this topic again.
One problem, the company is not going to do the safety recall that unless government agency intervenes.
Next level bad design for sure, bargain bins at shenzhen are probably better than this. Larger clearance around the mounting holes (which is usually default in most cad sw) and increasing the drill dimensions of them would probably solve the issue completely, not even bothering with plated holes if they wanted to be cheap about it.
@@xericicity I think they went for unplated holes because they were aware of how close that 12v trace was to the screw point, if you're manufacturing other parts with plated holes then switching to unplated is more costly than just reusing the same plate process, this whole mess was deliberate.
@@rebchizelbeak5392 The key here is that it's a specific kind of short. If it were a low impedance short (like dropping a screwdriver on the back of a GPU and bridging the power pins on the 8-pin PCI power connector), it would have lower resistance (impedance) and higher current, and would trip the OCP of the PSU. Like that wire you see Patrick using with the power supply. As soon as he turns it on, it current limits to 4A. The computer PSU would shut down.
The issue here is that the resistance of the short is too high to trip OCP, therefore the PSU can deliver it's specified current and OCP is not tripped, causing a fire.
nothing like a board that slowly exposes the 12V lane to warm up your day
Gamer's Nexus is quite possibly saving lives with this video. Bravo!
This isn’t just an “oops” mistake, this is complete negligence by an Electrical Engineer, and further negligence by the company to immediately fix the situation the correct way. This product needs to be reported to the relevant US government agencies so it can’t be sold.
This was probably designed by their newest intern.
I mean when these companies try to squeeze every cent just to make a product, this is what you get, as the saying says “what is cheap could end up being more expensive “
Let's be real here. The electrical engineer probably didn't design this to be possible. Somewhere up the command chain someone decided to save money by using a cheap riser instead of a sturdy one.
its poor design, but in testing, it might not have come up cause it may not have been broken by the screw to get exposed.
@@oneaboveallferrarifan2725 Problem being this is the opposite of cheap, you pay just over 300€ for a case with a potentially fatal flaw
I can hear the anger in some of the inflections in your voice. Love your passion.
This one was pretty upsetting because it really felt like they weren't listening to how serious it is.
@@GamersNexus They know, but saving lives don't make their big investors happy.
Why would the PCB designer have positive voltage in a layer going anywhere near a mounting point, thats so stupid.
It's possible that it wasn't an original mounting point and that it was drilled. :|
Cost cuts
@@Captain_Irk it's unlikely any manufacturer is drilling into pcbs.
I was considering getting a NZXT Cooler, but this has halted that idea. Glad you guys do these things, it's important that you take care of people vs companies. Love this channel for that reason.
"If not only for morality, at least for liability, NZXT should be replacing all of these PCIe risers."
Now that's a fucking burn 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Somewhere at NZXT, there's an accountant weighing the cost of a lawsuit against the cost of replacing the riser cables for 40-60% of the H1 cases sold ('cuz roughly half of H1 owners won't know about the issue or won't bother requesting a replacement).
nah burning is what the CASES are doing
It's insane that somebody else did all the research for free and provided the company with a solution, and they still refuse to fix it properly.
AMD Fans: Nvidia/Intel runs hot!
Intel Fans: AMD runs hot!
Nvidia Fans: AMD runs hot!
NZXT: Amateurs.
NZXT: I'M ON FIRE!
@@bacintom That was a good thing in the 90's along with being "da bomb". Now both of those gets you put on the terrorist watchlist. Welcome to the Brave New World of Covid 1984!
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
nice profile pic
Some time ago my NZXT Hue+ control box also caught fire, also my user account got banned from their forum for complaining.
You guys are amazing for this! Keep emailing them until they fix this! Kind of ridiculous that you have to go through all this for them to fix it..
KFC: ”-This PC heats a chicken!”
NZXT: ”-Hold my beer!”
KFC PC warms your chicken....
NZXT flame grills your chicken....(or is NZXT going to build a case for Burger King???)
More like "Boil my beer!".
NZXT: This PC heats your house
Ive designed my own PCBs both for etching myself and also for fabrication by services like JLC now you can get them professionally made for cheap prices. Adequate clearance for traces around holes and away from edges is a basic part of design. Having any trace, let alone one capable of delivering significant current, go anywhere near a screw hole is a ridiculous error to see in a commercial product.
Also the hole is undersized. I would never spec a hole to be effectively tapped into by a screw. The hole should be ~0.5mm wider than the screw so the PCB is clamped down on rather than screwed into. This is super basic design stuff that even I, as a hobbyist, would never get wrong in my own projects. Or if I did, I'd bin the PCB and start again.
Well said, i guess NZXT are complete amateurs.
Adding to this, most applications can run a basic clearance check, even open source apps like Kicad can detect a fault like this. This feels like someone moved a pcb through-hold or widened it without running any automated checks.
This sort of thing is common in CAD and software, because people are rushed and QA isn't heavily enforced. Someone clearly didn't understand the weight of their design decisions, nor the liability if they failed in their designs.
Most EDA systems will automatically add keepouts around screw holes, you dont even have to do it manually. And I agree, tapping a PCB with a screw is just plain retarded. There is literally no reason to do this.
Yep, came here to leave the same comment. This is just plain horrible design. Every single PCB design tool I've ever used (whether free or professional) by default runs DRC and will not allow you to have traces near a screw hole. There's always a designated keepout zone, and you have to make a conscious effort to work around it. Even having a screw thread into the hole shouldn't result in any copper being exposed.
This looks like absolutely trash design + someone spec'd the wrong screw.
My suspicion would be that this PCB was made without any screwholes originally, and thus there was never any hole to be checked for in DRC, and NZXT got a bunch of these holeless PCBs in inventory for whatever reason... and then someone got the "bright" idea that they could just drill holes in these holeless PCBs.
Shockingly, even my cheap eBay special PCIE risers are better in this particular regard.
A) The plane is cut much before the through-hole _|or|_
B) It's a basic plated-through hole to prevent this very thing
I really don't understand situations like this when it comes to companies... Youre going to end up paying a fuck ton more out in damaged, compensation and fines nevermind hug loss of sales across board and stock price plummeting than just solving the problem properly to begin with!
But that's rarely what actually happens these companies basically take a calculated risk once they discover a problem like this that the number of times that the event will happen is small enough that they're better off for the lifetime of the product just paying off individual lawsuits and then signing an NDA and basically betting against any large enough group of people becoming a class action lawsuit against them and they're usually pretty right in that assumption The simple truth is that when a really bad event happens you often need the money and the instant payout more than you can afford a longer class action battle since you probably don't have the resources
Ford Pinto. Crash course in fucking up cost effective risk assessments.
For muricans it's opportunity to buy cctv to show the fire and put it near curtains and "objects of priceless sentimental values of 1 million usd". Just need a half decent lawyer
Puts the "lit" in "litigation", doesn't it?
In almost all cases. If not all. They can gauge how many they'll sell compared howant are faulty and now much they'll have to pay out and in most cases they still make a profit
Finally! Steve joins the ElectroBOOM army! He said he wants to “RECTIFY” the NZXT
😂
Is the fix a zenor diode ?
Bro I haven't heard of ElectroBoom in so long...
we should get them together. instead of the thin wire used in this video they'll just use his body.
@@stagdragon3978 but then the fire would start in the case, as he is the STRONGEST LINK
Just an observation here: The original metal screws appears to be of the "self-threading" type. (Identified by the slight triangular shape of the screw instead of cylindrical)
That would be VERY bad.
Self-Threading screws are DESIGNED to eat away material in order to create threads for said screws. When my dad was teaching me to assemble PCs he specifically told me to: "Never place those screws directly in contact with any PCBs. EVER."
Obviously he said this for the very reason demonstrated in these videos.
That's what I thought right away as well looking at the removal of the metal screws. I was like wtf they using screws for plastic?
Yeah... I really don't understand why they did that. When you screw mother board for example to the case, hole in mb is just an hole for screw to go trough, actual screw is tightened into the case. I mean that is the standard way to do it, why the heck would they make the hole smaller?? It just seems like such and basic thing and very clear design flaw. The very least they could do is to call back current design and replace the risers, and ofc extend that offer to people who bought the case. Even if you replace the metal screw, the pcb is already damaged if at some point metal screw was used for the riser. It just the metal debris could cause the short.
It's such an stupid mistake. They would have noticed the issue with prototypes or first assembly.
It is also standard practice to keep copper fill and any pcb traces at least a few millimeters away from the screw head size. So it's also highly negligent on the PCB designers part.
@@oliverer3 Fully agreed. That's what I do on my PCBs to prevent exactly this situation. A 'route-keepout', or 'copper pullback' are the usual EDA terms.
That’s honestly pretty interesting. It’s also interesting how BADLY they fucked up by decided to use self-threading screws.
I almost bought this case when it was released but decided to go with a Louqe Ghost S1 instead, due to the fact that I was building a portable rig and wanted to avoid both the tempered glass and the bottom ports. After seeing all of this, I'm so glad I decided to not buy this case.
Thanks I was considering one of these cases (for a future build when parts become available) but no way will NZXT be my next case of choice
Because, as everyone knows.. PCB stands for..
Pyrotechnic Contact Bolt.
Puffy-Crispy-Burnt.
Pretty Case Burnt?
and FR4 stands for Fire Rage to the 4th!
Yes! Been looking forward to this after yesterday's community post.
Was looking to build a computer. Thought about getting this case too but now watching this I know my answer now. Thank You!
Best channel ever! The amount of service they bring to the community is fantastic!
Hell, I just finished the video and you showed it right there. Copper strands were visibly protruding from the pcb. If one of those strands is pushed into the exposed threads as you screw it down, then it will burn down at first start up. If the power supply malfunctions, then it becomes an area of heat buildup if the circuit doesn't terminate properly. This is REALLY bad. And just because reported cases are not common now, doesn't mean that they won't be increasing in frequency and severity over time
I can feel steves disapointment ..yet nzxt must address this asap
Nope, just never purchase NZXT crap again and spread the word. If they want our houses to potentially burn down, let's return the sentiment in kind and burn the company down into bankruptcy.
It is simply the karma of the golden rule of life. Don't do unto others what you wouldn't do upon yourself.
@@frs682 hey im brazillian and i found that amusing
@@frs682 NZXT fixed what in Brazil? They probably "fixed" it with nylon screws that they crossthread violently. They FOR SURE haven't remanufactured the defective boards, you can't do this in such a short time, it would take at least 3 months. You seem to be misunderstanding the whole issue. What was expected from them now in January, now that issue was become known, is not to hotpatch the issue and throw the case with a still defective board back on the market, but to take it off the market until they can replace the faulty part completely, and at least promise everyone a replacement riser, not a pair of flimsy plastic screws that can barely hold it in place.
This is a huge miss for their PCB layout team. eCAD layout tools include rule definitions and checking utilities to prevent issues exactly like this with power layer pours encroaching on other vias and mounting hole locations.
Thanx for having our back Steve and everyone at gn
I was considering building a system on this, now fuck no, especially after seeing how they're reacting to this. I will not be supporting a company like this.
Same, NZXT has lost my business and many others should look at this before giving their money to a company that treats their customers like they have
Don't buy nzxt ever.
It's a terrible case even without the fire hazard. In the Optimumtech review, even a 2070 Super goes above 80+ degrees C.
@@gabo007x1 wow didn't know that. I'll have to search for a proper good one as I'd like to get a 3080 and a R5800x in a mini ITX build
@@joaovarela4854 With those components, the Coolermaster NR200P is a very solid choice (around 18L). If you want to go smaller, the Ncase M1 is also excellent (around 12L) but it's a much more pricey "boutique case". Those two should be able to keep things cool and relatively quiet, with other sff cases you will most likely have to sacrifice cooling and / or noise performance.
I can honestly say that seeing stuff like this and how the company responded I will never buy any NZXT products. Absolutely ridiculous.
They'll probably ignore it until someone gets hurt or someone's house actually catches fire.
there's a chance there will be change in direction after this
@@carlangelo653 true. i mean almost all incidents in the world are like that.
Hey Steve and team at GN, I got a new riser cable for my H1 from NZXT today.. all the way to India. Thanks so much for the effort and time you put in to make this possible. Keep it up. TC
Steve laying the smackdown and all I hear in my head is "Fatality!!!"
Wow, GN upgraded this to a 2 Patrick video. Shows how important they thought it was.
We wanted to go for a Patrick Hat Trick, but couldn't budget for the third!
With both Patricks out you know it's serious
@@GamersNexus Would that technically be a Pat-Trick?
imagine being a first time builder only to burn your house down on accident... jesus christ. this is crazy
They simply need to add a 'route keepout' around the screw hole for the next PCB revision to fix it, and yes; recall all the old ones as you're totally right, it's a fire hazard. Their PCB engineers should know better.
I think your work on exposing fire hazards is vital! Great Job!!!!
You keep re-stocking mouse mats, but when will you start stocking cat mats?
Elaborately designed PC-themed cat mats... Hmmm...
@@GamersNexus Specifically, it would be nice to get a product that will once and for all solve the issue of cats sitting on top of PC cases and blocking the top exhaust.
They should put that fire retardant they use to put on NES and the SNES from the 80s and 90s. Give it that vintage its fire fam look
@@GamersNexus Cat beds aswell Steve, not just mats, and a Gamers Nexus scratch pole perhaps?
@@GamersNexus Yes.
Invoking Louis Rossmann is a nice move ^^
invoking louis rossmann is like invoking voldemorts name to lots of big companies. hes he who shall not be named
I always love when Steve does his best undertaker impression for the thumbnail
The fact you could so quickly reproduce this error is impressive. Well done.
Mr Stone comes across as a wealth of knowledge, and was refreshing to hear his take on diagnosing the riser
Thank you for the kind comment! I'll pass it along to him. He has the deductive reasoning skills needed for a complex issue like this one.
Let me be clear, I'm not trying to simplify people down to analogous people, everyone has their own personality and I like most of them. That being said, Mr. Stones expertise, presenting style and calm confidence remind me of LTT's Anthony Young, which is a compliment just to be clear. Fantastic talented guys.
"NZXT has met enough of a slime prerequisite to head up a hedge fund now" lmao
Sludge fund
A different but effective way of shorting your stock.
Or gov.
You make a really good point with the nylon screws. If I saw those and one broke, I'd think nothing of replacing it with a metal screw. That just makes sense, unless you know it's a fire hazard ahead of time...