Dead on regarding the highest level mix engineers working totally ITB, but in addition to that… most of those guys have moved their mix rooms into their houses… budgets having shrunk even for the big guys… it’s SO much more cost effective to not have to purchase and keep rack fulls of outboard in perfect operating condition… but also and possibly most importantly: instant recall. It’s the nature of the business… Being in the box makes them more profit. I always try to remember they need the people they work for to accept ITB as completely legit. Not to suggest it can’t be/isn’t. Just saying. Many, if not all, of the guys so vocally ITB have their own lines of plug ins for sale.
Thank You for clearing that up! My console was retired in 2009 & I felt something was missing while mixing ITB. I purchased the SSL SIGMA & love it. My HW compressors have more headroom than their UAD counterparts & using 2 hands on a compressor yields faster results . There are still a few things that no one has been able to emulate..
hell yea! love yoru vids.I got a capi sumbus 32 ... your api custom summing mixer is awesome. awesome extra features. I use a anatal xbay digital patch bay to route all my stuff fast and can save presets. I want to print to my ampex 351-2 from the sumbus soon. i should try and do some vids. Cheers!!!!
Great video brother, I appreciate the work that you put in. And I’ve been saying the same thing for years, every time I watch a video of a big name mixer doing his thing. These guys haven’t seen a bad track in 25 years most of the time. The MCI print is a clear winner for me. It definitely takes a lot of extra work to get an in the box print to have that kind of size. The MCI print just immediately sounded like a great Steely Dan record. Clean yet punchy and three-dimensional.
It's always a pleasure to watch you work, my friend. I don't perceive you as being parochial about either format (digital, or analog). You try to get the mix right by any means necessary.
I'm choosing my Burl Converters over anything tbh. Neve 1073s + Burl = THE SOUND OF ROCK N ROLL 100% agree with you on every single point you made in this video. I do all of my surgical post-EQ in the box (FabFilter Pro-Q) and use a FabFilter MB on my mix bus sends. I have outboard gear where it matters, and I mix in the box. To me what's more important is capturing the SOUNDS at the source. Getting the right sound going into the box is the most important thing, and there is no substitute for good engineering in that regard. Also, the API Summing Print and ITB sounded the best. Not so much on the console. I'm so glad I found this channel. Keep up the great content.
Hi Steve, I think you nailed it when you said what process that inspires you. This is what it's all about. We do live in a age where we can have to best of both worlds. People do need to take in consideration how the tracks were recorded. Top mix engineers and/or producers are working under totally different environment than most regular people. The demand and time constraints are on a different level. Their client recorded tracks are done professionally. So when it comes mixing, it's an easier workflow. For those that get the results they want completely recording and mixing ITB, that's great for them. For those who want to just analog or/and hybrid to get the results they want, that's great for them. Personally, I enjoy using the hybrid method myself. There's a lot of great analog and digital tools available to all of us. We should be using the tools that inspires us to get the results we want. We need to learn to appreciate the art of it all. Plus, I did like to the energy of the console mix the best of three. Any one of those mixes would work. 😉
Im glad i found your channel! I have some AS gear and i am starting a small collection of plugs so it can help me clean the sound in the box before i run it through my outboard.... keep posting, i am learning a lot. 🎉
Each version of the mix from ITB to the API summing mixer print to the console print got increasingly better and dimensional. No question about it. I actually find it discouraging that content creators like you have to do videos like this and explain yourself to the group of viewers - almost certainly neophytes - who leave salty, smarmy, non-constructive, butt hurt comments because your personal process and what your ears prefer doesn't align with their confirmation bias. I dare say a lot of that comes from dealing with an inability to get their hands on gear by convincing themselves it's redundant before they've ever tried it and casting themselves into an internet echo chamber of "everything in the box is as good or better than hardware." Which they don't realize is almost entirely just a sales pitch pushed by the people who sell the hardware simply selling them plug-in's instead; "Can't afford a 1073? No problem! Try the Neve licensed 1073 emulation for just $9.99 a month! All the tone, without the vintage hardware price! Don't believe me? Well here's our paid partner Chris Lord-Alge (a guy with more hardware than East West Studios that he isn't going to be parting with anytime soon) to tell you how he's "all in" the box in this era of low-to-no budget major label recording projects! You know, except when he can do things the way he _prefers_ to do it. Which is with his _RACK_ of blue stripe 1176's, his massive and consistently maintained E-series SSL console, Pultec's, 1084's and every other classic piece of hardware known to man."
I couldn’t of said this better! Correct! 1000% correct! I get comments saying but you used hardware on that mix compared to the ITB mix!!! Well if plugs are just as good or better, why are you bothered by the hardware gear on a mix? Like some how if you use outboard it makes it unfair!?!?
Dude, you asked which mix was preferred. I also told you about my ITB work flow. Sorry if I offended you but you said the best mix engineers work ITB. No drama mate❤
I loved all 3 mixes! It's great to have choices. Some days I love Steak and mash potatoes, some days pasta, and some days Chicken, at weddings I have all 3 in one sitting. Life is AWESOME.
What I hear: The vocals and the snare sound much more crisp, clear and open on "MCI Console Print", when you compare that mix with the others. I have zero experience with hardware units, I listened without any kind of bias! :)
100% such a cool unique set up with the control room over looking the live room. Great vibe! That’s the studio that put calrecs on my radar. So many great studios went away. I’m glad sunset is running.
The API mix is my favorite for that song but you are 100% correct in your assertion that hybrid or straight analog sounds better and I admire your passion for gear and for getting the sounds you want.
While I was concerned about level-matching in the Console/SummingAmp comparison in the previous video, this was more on par. The console did win out for me. But the summing amp was a huge step up from the ITB mix. Made me jones for a CAPI Sumbus
I like the api mix the best wasn't looking at the screen - voice is more present dynamics flow better and the cymbals are smoother. Tape sounds a little too old school tbh with some audible time artifacts and squishy compression with reduced frequency response. I happen to have several api 8200 sidecar summing systems that cascade to a 7600 master section and this video reinforces the rationale for it. I've picked ups a few audioscape pieces over the years thanks for the bump.
As always great video. It is a shame you had give the preamble because we live in an age of maximum anonymous rudeness via social media. The differences between mixes are worlds apart and CANNOT be achieved in pure digital as it is the equivalent of polishing a turd. You can go 8 plugins deep each track and it still will not get there. One GREAT point you made as it needed to be said, these famous mixing engineers ALWAYS leave out when they are pushing this ITB/plugin BS is that by the time the mix is in their hands, it has ALREADY been tracked and recorded through world class, upper echelon gear. They are not working with tracks ran through focusrite Scarlett, a starter Rode mic, Sm57 as a room mic, tracked in a bedroom. Even my Sales Engineer at Sweetwater, whose never steered me wrong and has tons of industry experience, hipped me to this game early on. These big time mixers are in on the con game with the corporations to sell you bottom of the basement gear on repeated basis that they themselves do not use, new plugins each week, along with a subscription plan, so they can get their sponsorships while the companies stack the revenues. They do not love you, have no allegiance to you and are not out for your best interests. They only goal is to separate your cash/credit card from your wallet as often as possible, but in a deliberate manner so as to not seem too obvious. I am not against digital or plugins as they very useful and needed use them, but realize they have their limitations and they are NOT the same, but the corporations and their lackeys are hell bent and invested in convincing people otherwise. Not everyone can obtain quality gear so a plugin may have a role until opportunities present themselves. But keep in mind when deciding on spending more on the newest compressor is that even a cheap DBX 266, that can be found for about $110 will give you better sounded results than the best API 2500 plugin even stacked.
You said it better than I could, and you and I are on the same page! I agree with you 1000%!!!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Yea how come a hardware dbx 160a sounds better than a Fairchild plug in?!?😂😂😂
Your MCI Bends the sound and gels nicely. The API sum sounded good. Less the store and cleaner, but with great Separation. The in the box mix sounded good because it sounds like the tracks were recorded analog but it was more mono centric. I have been doing this for a long time and I myself analog because I prefer it. All mixes sound good.
Again, the console mix is by far better. Open, the most musical of all three. I will say the hi-hate, kick, and bass groove is awesome on the api summed mix. The overall groove is deeper and yields much more weight with the board. I think it should be mentioned that all mixes were cool but the console was just out there better. Thanks again for the insight.
very well said. Your insights are invaluable. People like you have told the truth which has helped musicians like me to understand both the realms. I do not own any analog gear yet, but i tried a few via someone and yes i can see what you are presenting. I have worked as a software engineers, i also do not see the voltage and circuits imprint on sound probably cannot be fully replicated via software. So, i am not sure about it, sound is energy, probably that aspect of sound needs a bit of electric circuitry to enhance and shine the sound in a way which analog can only do. Again with full humility, i would say, absolutely ready to be proved wrong and learn from that. Thanks for these invaluable videos. Would you do a video on 500 series vs full rack gears, since there is a difference of voltage in these, what you make of it. thanks.
Thank you very much! I the only 500 series modules I have are api preamps and eq’s. I do have an Eylsia Xpressor 500 series but don’t have the 19” rack unit to compare it to. If I ever get the chance I will make a video on that subject.
Very good statement. I agree 100%. Actually i love gear and imho most of the time it sounds better as well. Maybe not better but different and sometimes its a matter of taste. I grew up with 2inch tape and giant consoles and i still love tracking on it. But nowadays such places are rare and there is no budget anymore. I prefer mixing ITB course recalls a so easy and i can mix at home and get stuff done. If clients had the budget and the Time i´d rather mix hybrid. but ...
Whatever this fellow's preferred method is, he should keep using it; his mixes sound top-notch. Some home recordists, however, who started fully in the box and then acquired analog gear have noticed that, when compared to analog-emulation plugins, Real hardware offers A) nicer harmonic distortion [closer to the sound of classic recordings], and B) a far more Open top end - among other things. The high-high frequency loss from analog-emulations is striking when heard side by side with the real deal. It is probably the main reason modeling plugins tend to sound Flattened, or sort of plastic-like against their analog counterparts. Using straight digital plugs, like EQs, limiters, etc., in the box seems fine, and makes perfect sense. It's the modeling plugins (which, to be sure, sound better than using Nothing At All) that one should perhaps be wary of, especially if great analog alternatives are available.
First off thank you and I believe your spot on with your comment. Also I’ll add that this ITB mix was transferred through over $20.k of converters and mixed on them as well. As I transferred each track was hitting transformers on the way into the computer and for mixing even tho it was mixed ITB playback via DA was through discrete opamps. Ultimately as you know if the band is good it makes recording and mixing easier. Thank you!
Similar experience to yourself and similar conclusions. Well said. On these old ears the API summing won out. I liked the MCI console print, more vibe perhaps but less clarity.
Im using a Mackie 32.8 with a PRO VLA II, a DBX 166 and a Warm Audio G Comp with a UAD VOLT 476 and Pro C Cables with Alesis MK1 Active MK2s with a Lewit Mic and AT70 and AT40 headphones...with Bitwig for Producing and Vocals and Mixing and Mastering with Reasons and Access Analog I mix with Nebula and Acustica Audio ITB
Perfect, prefer MCI, ITB and API.MCI be cause it fit the track, ITB because of stereo field, and analog in general because it slightly smeared the mix.
Dude, if you want a viral video make one about Suno (and related Sora) and how it's going to affect you. I've been working in tv/film sound for 27+ years and seeing Sora unveiled a week ago (along with Suno coming out recently, etc) us humans are going to be out of the "mix" in literally 2-3 years from now. No businesses (film, music, commercials, etc) are going to pay for songwriting, production, mixing, royalties, etc when they can pay a tiny subscription and have an AI do it all for them. Just a few months ago most people thought we had years to worry about it and adapt. We don't. Experts are already saying in just a few years 90% of what you see online will be AI generated and there is a 10% chance by 2027 AI will be able to do ALL human jobs better (grows to 50% chance by 2047 but timelines are exponentially getting faster). If by any chance you haven't seen these new "tools", it would be interesting to see your live, first reactions. It's scary that these are the 1st generation models and only going to get better from here. Sorry weird comment for you video probably but the ITB/OTB argument is now over when Logic in a couple years can mix music better than humans and has billions of reference models to learn from. We're all going to have the same fate as telephone switchboard operators.
lol I work in AI...you couldn't be more wrong. Artists are what they are...there is no replacing the real thing. All AI is going to do is enhance what is already there. That's it. You still need to prompt the tool, and even then you need an artistic engineer to mold it correctly. AI is a tool. That is all. Go listen to Relentless Doppleganger if you want an idea of what AI created music sounds like. lol
That’s a very interesting comment and I do believe AI will continue to grow 10 fold, but my favorite part of this process is capturing and hearing the creation from humans. Plus I don’t care how many AI mix’s present themselves. I’ll be riding faders and turning knobs. Digital and AI is so great! But I don’t hear “that sound” or get “that feeling” like I do off a very simple analog recording to tape. Thank you for the comment! It’s definitely interesting to think about.
@dhont9816 Do yourself a favor and google "suno ai", go to their "explore" page, find the genre you like and then proceed to cry yourself to sleep tonight when you realize this is the FIRST generation of this stuff being offered to the public as a product. It's weird that you guys still think AI is 10+ years out when it's moving at a substantially exponential speed. Why do you think NVidia stocks are flying? Why do you think AI company stocks are flying? No one thought it would be improving at this pace. EVERYTHING changed just this week in tv/film with the release of Sora. Tyler Perry himself just this week cancelled his Billion dollar studio lot expansion after seeing the Sora demos coming out. Machine learning is exponentially speeding things up faster than even the experts predicted a year ago. Its just so funny to see the negative backlash online from the "artists" who are deer in headlights pretending it's not going to destroy their future business. Im not here to convince anyone of anything. I already know what's about to happen. I thought it would make for an interesting video for this channel ESPECIALLY if he's not up to date with things. Peace.
Yes I have it wired up normalized to my patchbay to go directly to my DAW. The console mix does have hardware compression and eq on it. But that shouldn’t matter because plug ins are just as good.
the kick and bass are barley there in the api summing, in the mci they sound great. Would not the api summing sound better if you just turn up the bass and snare. You could prob mix the into the api differnt to make it sound better..?
Yes I could of done a million different tweaks that would of made it sound better to some people and others would say it would sound better if I would if did this or that. I did these mixes quick all within a couple hours while filming and explaining on the videos. Overall they’re not that bad. Could they be better? They could be different. Thank you.
ITB print is truly amazing given the money you save. If anything a slight boost on the tops to bring out the hats a bit more and its done. ALl the mixes sound great though. But the ITB mix is pretty remarkable, makes me wonder where we will be at in 10 years with ITB mixing.
Keep in mind this ITB mix is going through over $20.k in converters hitting transformers on every track on the way in and discrete opamps on the way out.
@@SHUTUPANDRECORD Used plenty own a few. Been musiking for 25 years with studio. Like u relentlessly searching my ultimate sound... Your burl and outboard will play a part in the ITB mix (if you tracked it), but to my ear the console stages smeared the transients too much and took away focus. Clean pres from a decent interface, a way of tracking with fx for the talent and smart work flow is what you need on 2024. We gotta roll with the times
@@simonpaynesoulmusic I love the simplicity and speed I can work ITB... but significantly more than half the time I compare outboard to ITB stuff (and I do extensive blind listening... it's basically my hobby)... I find the OB stuff more pleasing. BUT, I don't always find it enough to spend the time to go OTB! lol In the end, it's the carpenter not the hammer?!
API Summing > ITB > MCI Console Sorry guys, to my ears, the console was the worst ...didn't like what it did to the vocals and didn't sound cohesive. Best was API, and then ITB for me.
Thank for your input, there’s no reason to apologize the ITB mix does sound good. Great musicians, recorded in a great room, with great microphones and console to 2 inch tape goes along way. And this was now captured and mixed with over $20k worth of conversion. All is equal these ^^^ parameters are the same on the summing and console mix. Even the ITB mix are you hearing that analog warmth coming from the average studio using todays methods?
@@RiotHomeRecording yea totally, itb sounds warm, punchy and cohesive and is totally usable. API just had that something extra in allowing the vocal to pop out and the drums had a nice top end without sounding harsh. Great experiment would love to see more of this
A wave is a wave weather it's sourced through digital or analogue... study the wave, master the music... analogue adds to the wave, digital just recreates the wave. Analogue sounds great as standard (because of the addition), with digital you have to add to it yourself.... What are these additions. HARMONIC DISTORTION..... no more pearls from me.
Dead on regarding the highest level mix engineers working totally ITB, but in addition to that… most of those guys have moved their mix rooms into their houses… budgets having shrunk even for the big guys… it’s SO much more cost effective to not have to purchase and keep rack fulls of outboard in perfect operating condition… but also and possibly most importantly: instant recall.
It’s the nature of the business…
Being in the box makes them more profit.
I always try to remember they need the people they work for to accept ITB as completely legit.
Not to suggest it can’t be/isn’t. Just saying.
Many, if not all, of the guys so vocally ITB have their own lines of plug ins for sale.
That’s correct!
Api and Mci sound amazing! I don’t like ITB mixing that I hear dead sound. Thanks to your efforts!
Appreciate your input!
Thank You for clearing that up! My console was retired in 2009 & I felt something was missing while mixing ITB. I purchased the SSL SIGMA & love it. My HW compressors have more headroom than their UAD counterparts & using 2 hands on a compressor yields faster results . There are still a few things that no one has been able to emulate..
I’ve always wanted to try the sigma. I heard it many times but have not done a full mix myself on it.
Thank you!
hell yea! love yoru vids.I got a capi sumbus 32 ... your api custom summing mixer is awesome. awesome extra features. I use a anatal xbay digital patch bay to route all my stuff fast and can save presets. I want to print to my ampex 351-2 from the sumbus soon. i should try and do some vids. Cheers!!!!
Thank you Jesse! You should make video and share it with us!
Great video brother, I appreciate the work that you put in. And I’ve been saying the same thing for years, every time I watch a video of a big name mixer doing his thing. These guys haven’t seen a bad track in 25 years most of the time. The MCI print is a clear winner for me. It definitely takes a lot of extra work to get an in the box print to have that kind of size. The MCI print just immediately sounded like a great Steely Dan record. Clean yet punchy and three-dimensional.
1000%!
It's always a pleasure to watch you work, my friend. I don't perceive you as being parochial about either format (digital, or analog). You try to get the mix right by any means necessary.
Thank you Malcome and that’s exactly right!
I'm choosing my Burl Converters over anything tbh. Neve 1073s + Burl = THE SOUND OF ROCK N ROLL
100% agree with you on every single point you made in this video. I do all of my surgical post-EQ in the box (FabFilter Pro-Q) and use a FabFilter MB on my mix bus sends. I have outboard gear where it matters, and I mix in the box. To me what's more important is capturing the SOUNDS at the source. Getting the right sound going into the box is the most important thing, and there is no substitute for good engineering in that regard.
Also, the API Summing Print and ITB sounded the best. Not so much on the console.
I'm so glad I found this channel. Keep up the great content.
We are 100% in agreement! Thank you!
Hear ye, Hear ye.. He hath spoken! 😆 Love what you do man. Thanks for continuing to deliver the goods.
👊 💥 💯
Hi Steve, I think you nailed it when you said what process that inspires you. This is what it's all about. We do live in a age where we can have to best of both worlds. People do need to take in consideration how the tracks were recorded. Top mix engineers and/or producers are working under totally different environment than most regular people. The demand and time constraints are on a different level. Their client recorded tracks are done professionally. So when it comes mixing, it's an easier workflow. For those that get the results they want completely recording and mixing ITB, that's great for them. For those who want to just analog or/and hybrid to get the results they want, that's great for them. Personally, I enjoy using the hybrid method myself. There's a lot of great analog and digital tools available to all of us. We should be using the tools that inspires us to get the results we want. We need to learn to appreciate the art of it all.
Plus, I did like to the energy of the console mix the best of three. Any one of those mixes would work. 😉
Thank you!
I agree and prefer the hybrid mixing approach as well!
Im glad i found your channel! I have some AS gear and i am starting a small collection of plugs so it can help me clean the sound in the box before i run it through my outboard.... keep posting, i am learning a lot. 🎉
That’s the way I do it too.
Thank you!
Just keep doing your thing...no need to explain.i only wish I had what you had.
Greetings from Philippines!
Thank you!
Each version of the mix from ITB to the API summing mixer print to the console print got increasingly better and dimensional. No question about it. I actually find it discouraging that content creators like you have to do videos like this and explain yourself to the group of viewers - almost certainly neophytes - who leave salty, smarmy, non-constructive, butt hurt comments because your personal process and what your ears prefer doesn't align with their confirmation bias. I dare say a lot of that comes from dealing with an inability to get their hands on gear by convincing themselves it's redundant before they've ever tried it and casting themselves into an internet echo chamber of "everything in the box is as good or better than hardware." Which they don't realize is almost entirely just a sales pitch pushed by the people who sell the hardware simply selling them plug-in's instead; "Can't afford a 1073? No problem! Try the Neve licensed 1073 emulation for just $9.99 a month! All the tone, without the vintage hardware price! Don't believe me? Well here's our paid partner Chris Lord-Alge (a guy with more hardware than East West Studios that he isn't going to be parting with anytime soon) to tell you how he's "all in" the box in this era of low-to-no budget major label recording projects! You know, except when he can do things the way he _prefers_ to do it. Which is with his _RACK_ of blue stripe 1176's, his massive and consistently maintained E-series SSL console, Pultec's, 1084's and every other classic piece of hardware known to man."
I couldn’t of said this better! Correct! 1000% correct!
I get comments saying but you used hardware on that mix compared to the ITB mix!!!
Well if plugs are just as good or better, why are you bothered by the hardware gear on a mix?
Like some how if you use outboard it makes it unfair!?!?
Very well said - and VERY true.
👏🏼👏🏼
Dude, you asked which mix was preferred. I also told you about my ITB work flow. Sorry if I offended you but you said the best mix engineers work ITB. No drama mate❤
I am so in love with the sound of my MCI JH-500. It's also just a fun tactile workflow, and having no latency for anything is great.
Agreed 100%!!
Absolutely ❤your stuff man great song I agree 10000 percent
Thank you Kevin!!!
Digital or analog... it's all great. We are all blessed to have what we have no matter what it is. Cheers.
1000% agreed!!!
Api all day long , that is the sound of my childhood 💯 thanks 🙏🏽
100% correct, you nailed it. at the end its tools and what inspires you "IS" whats right...
Thank you very much!!!
I loved all 3 mixes! It's great to have choices. Some days I love Steak and mash potatoes, some days pasta, and some days Chicken, at weddings I have all 3 in one sitting. Life is AWESOME.
Well said!
Thank you!
What I hear: The vocals and the snare sound much more crisp, clear and open on "MCI Console Print", when you compare that mix with the others.
I have zero experience with hardware units, I listened without any kind of bias! :)
Good ear thanks for your input!!!
Just commenting on Wall2Wall in your thumbnail. Terrific studio. I miss that place.
100% such a cool unique set up with the control room over looking the live room. Great vibe! That’s the studio that put calrecs on my radar. So many great studios went away. I’m glad sunset is running.
The API mix is my favorite for that song but you are 100% correct in your assertion that hybrid or straight analog sounds better and I admire your passion for gear and for getting the sounds you want.
While I was concerned about level-matching in the Console/SummingAmp comparison in the previous video, this was more on par.
The console did win out for me. But the summing amp was a huge step up from the ITB mix.
Made me jones for a CAPI Sumbus
I listened to you and knew I better level match better this time!
Thank you!
I like the api mix the best wasn't looking at the screen - voice is more present dynamics flow better and the cymbals are smoother. Tape sounds a little too old school tbh with some audible time artifacts and squishy compression with reduced frequency response. I happen to have several api 8200 sidecar summing systems that cascade to a 7600 master section and this video reinforces the rationale for it.
I've picked ups a few audioscape pieces over the years thanks for the bump.
As always great video. It is a shame you had give the preamble because we live in an age of maximum anonymous rudeness via social media. The differences between mixes are worlds apart and CANNOT be achieved in pure digital as it is the equivalent of polishing a turd. You can go 8 plugins deep each track and it still will not get there. One GREAT point you made as it needed to be said, these famous mixing engineers ALWAYS leave out when they are pushing this ITB/plugin BS is that by the time the mix is in their hands, it has ALREADY been tracked and recorded through world class, upper echelon gear. They are not working with tracks ran through focusrite Scarlett, a starter Rode mic, Sm57 as a room mic, tracked in a bedroom. Even my Sales Engineer at Sweetwater, whose never steered me wrong and has tons of industry experience, hipped me to this game early on. These big time mixers are in on the con game with the corporations to sell you bottom of the basement gear on repeated basis that they themselves do not use, new plugins each week, along with a subscription plan, so they can get their sponsorships while the companies stack the revenues. They do not love you, have no allegiance to you and are not out for your best interests. They only goal is to separate your cash/credit card from your wallet as often as possible, but in a deliberate manner so as to not seem too obvious. I am not against digital or plugins as they very useful and needed use them, but realize they have their limitations and they are NOT the same, but the corporations and their lackeys are hell bent and invested in convincing people otherwise. Not everyone can obtain quality gear so a plugin may have a role until opportunities present themselves. But keep in mind when deciding on spending more on the newest compressor is that even a cheap DBX 266, that can be found for about $110 will give you better sounded results than the best API 2500 plugin even stacked.
You said it better than I could, and you and I are on the same page!
I agree with you 1000%!!!!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Yea how come a hardware dbx 160a sounds better than a Fairchild plug in?!?😂😂😂
💯✊🏾💯✊🏾💯✊🏾💯💯💯💯✊🏾
Thank you!
MCI Console, API Summing, ITB. The console & summing have that 3D, movement and low end that ITB doesn't.
Yes!
I totally agree!
Agree 100%!!!
YES! I like the MCI summing. The hibass is nice (very analog) and mix have nice depth. Nice example! Thanks
Your MCI Bends the sound and gels nicely. The API sum sounded good. Less the store and cleaner, but with great Separation. The in the box mix sounded good because it sounds like the tracks were recorded analog but it was more mono centric. I have been doing this for a long time and I myself analog because I prefer it. All mixes sound good.
Great ear, agreed!
You are spot on with regards to MITB
Thank you!
Great video!
Thank you I appreciated it!
Again, the console mix is by far better. Open, the most musical of all three. I will say the hi-hate, kick, and bass groove is awesome on the api summed mix. The overall groove is deeper and yields much more weight with the board. I think it should be mentioned that all mixes were cool but the console was just out there better. Thanks again for the insight.
Thank you for your input! It’s very much appreciated. I hear that as well.
very well said. Your insights are invaluable. People like you have told the truth which has helped musicians like me to understand both the realms. I do not own any analog gear yet, but i tried a few via someone and yes i can see what you are presenting. I have worked as a software engineers, i also do not see the voltage and circuits imprint on sound probably cannot be fully replicated via software. So, i am not sure about it, sound is energy, probably that aspect of sound needs a bit of electric circuitry to enhance and shine the sound in a way which analog can only do. Again with full humility, i would say, absolutely ready to be proved wrong and learn from that. Thanks for these invaluable videos. Would you do a video on 500 series vs full rack gears, since there is a difference of voltage in these, what you make of it. thanks.
Thank you very much! I the only 500 series modules I have are api preamps and eq’s. I do have an Eylsia Xpressor 500 series but don’t have the 19” rack unit to compare it to.
If I ever get the chance I will make a video on that subject.
Thank you very much! (if I have the money, I’ll just buy the console!) (I hope Solid State Logic Duality is not a bad console!?!?)
That’s a great console!
Very good statement. I agree 100%. Actually i love gear and imho most of the time it sounds better as well. Maybe not better but different and sometimes its a matter of taste. I grew up with 2inch tape and giant consoles and i still love tracking on it. But nowadays such places are rare and there is no budget anymore. I prefer mixing ITB course recalls a so easy and i can mix at home and get stuff done. If clients had the budget and the Time i´d rather mix hybrid. but ...
I completely understand budgets play a roll in the decision processes. And again if it’s tracked right, that goes a long way.
Thank you!
Whatever this fellow's preferred method is, he should keep using it; his mixes sound top-notch.
Some home recordists, however, who started fully in the box and then acquired analog gear have noticed that, when compared to analog-emulation plugins, Real hardware offers A) nicer harmonic distortion [closer to the sound of classic recordings], and B) a far more Open top end - among other things.
The high-high frequency loss from analog-emulations is striking when heard side by side with the real deal. It is probably the main reason modeling plugins tend to sound Flattened, or sort of plastic-like against their analog counterparts.
Using straight digital plugs, like EQs, limiters, etc., in the box seems fine, and makes perfect sense. It's the modeling plugins (which, to be sure, sound better than using Nothing At All) that one should perhaps be wary of, especially if great analog alternatives are available.
First off thank you and I believe your spot on with your comment. Also I’ll add that this ITB mix was transferred through over $20.k of converters and mixed on them as well. As I transferred each track was hitting transformers on the way into the computer and for mixing even tho it was mixed ITB playback via DA was through discrete opamps. Ultimately as you know if the band is good it makes recording and mixing easier.
Thank you!
In the box is the best!
Similar experience to yourself and similar conclusions. Well said. On these old ears the API summing won out. I liked the MCI console print, more vibe perhaps but less clarity.
Good ear!
Thank you!
Im using a Mackie 32.8 with a PRO VLA II, a DBX 166 and a Warm Audio G Comp with a UAD VOLT 476 and Pro C Cables with Alesis MK1 Active MK2s with a Lewit Mic and AT70 and AT40 headphones...with Bitwig for Producing and Vocals and Mixing and Mastering with Reasons and Access Analog
I mix with Nebula and Acustica Audio ITB
I need to check out Acustica!!
Sounds like a great set up!!
Peace. Had no idea you were in IL !
Yes sir!
Api sounds nice
Agreed and it’s full recall!
Mixing tape to 2 track = no rounding errors.
Perfect, prefer MCI, ITB and API.MCI be cause it fit the track, ITB because of stereo field, and analog in general because it slightly smeared the mix.
Thanks for your insight!!!
Console print sounds way better..
Thanks for your input!
And there are guys like me who want to dive into analog so much but it just doesn’t make sense financially, at least for now.
MCI mix is noticeably wider, fatter and deeper. IMO. great sounding mix.
I hear that as well.
where can i get your t-shirt?
Hahahaha 😂 I will have to ask my son he bought it for me when he was stationed in Korea. (Airforce)
Dude, if you want a viral video make one about Suno (and related Sora) and how it's going to affect you. I've been working in tv/film sound for 27+ years and seeing Sora unveiled a week ago (along with Suno coming out recently, etc) us humans are going to be out of the "mix" in literally 2-3 years from now. No businesses (film, music, commercials, etc) are going to pay for songwriting, production, mixing, royalties, etc when they can pay a tiny subscription and have an AI do it all for them. Just a few months ago most people thought we had years to worry about it and adapt. We don't.
Experts are already saying in just a few years 90% of what you see online will be AI generated and there is a 10% chance by 2027 AI will be able to do ALL human jobs better (grows to 50% chance by 2047 but timelines are exponentially getting faster).
If by any chance you haven't seen these new "tools", it would be interesting to see your live, first reactions. It's scary that these are the 1st generation models and only going to get better from here.
Sorry weird comment for you video probably but the ITB/OTB argument is now over when Logic in a couple years can mix music better than humans and has billions of reference models to learn from. We're all going to have the same fate as telephone switchboard operators.
lol I work in AI...you couldn't be more wrong. Artists are what they are...there is no replacing the real thing. All AI is going to do is enhance what is already there. That's it. You still need to prompt the tool, and even then you need an artistic engineer to mold it correctly. AI is a tool. That is all. Go listen to Relentless Doppleganger if you want an idea of what AI created music sounds like. lol
@@charlesrocks sorry you’re wrong and you have your head in the sand. Good luck you’re gonna need it.
That’s a very interesting comment and I do believe AI will continue to grow 10 fold, but my favorite part of this process is capturing and hearing the creation from humans. Plus I don’t care how many AI mix’s present themselves. I’ll be riding faders and turning knobs.
Digital and AI is so great! But I don’t hear “that sound” or get “that feeling” like I do off a very simple analog recording to tape.
Thank you for the comment! It’s definitely interesting to think about.
Have you even tried AI mixing stuff? It SUCKS and is unusable in it's present form..
@dhont9816 Do yourself a favor and google "suno ai", go to their "explore" page, find the genre you like and then proceed to cry yourself to sleep tonight when you realize this is the FIRST generation of this stuff being offered to the public as a product. It's weird that you guys still think AI is 10+ years out when it's moving at a substantially exponential speed. Why do you think NVidia stocks are flying? Why do you think AI company stocks are flying? No one thought it would be improving at this pace. EVERYTHING changed just this week in tv/film with the release of Sora. Tyler Perry himself just this week cancelled his Billion dollar studio lot expansion after seeing the Sora demos coming out. Machine learning is exponentially speeding things up faster than even the experts predicted a year ago. Its just so funny to see the negative backlash online from the "artists" who are deer in headlights pretending it's not going to destroy their future business.
Im not here to convince anyone of anything. I already know what's about to happen. I thought it would make for an interesting video for this channel ESPECIALLY if he's not up to date with things. Peace.
Hey long time you didn't posted, hope everything ok for you ?!
so the console's going directly from and to the daw ?
Yes I have it wired up normalized to my patchbay to go directly to my DAW. The console mix does have hardware compression and eq on it.
But that shouldn’t matter because plug ins are just as good.
the kick and bass are barley there in the api summing, in the mci they sound great. Would not the api summing sound better if you just turn up the bass and snare. You could prob mix the into the api differnt to make it sound better..?
Yes I could of done a million different tweaks that would of made it sound better to some people and others would say it would sound better if I would if did this or that. I did these mixes quick all within a couple hours while filming and explaining on the videos. Overall they’re not that bad. Could they be better? They could be different.
Thank you.
Where are you located?
South Chicago Suburbs I work in downtown Chicago.
The console is beefier
I appreciate your input!
ITB print is truly amazing given the money you save. If anything a slight boost on the tops to bring out the hats a bit more and its done. ALl the mixes sound great though. But the ITB mix is pretty remarkable, makes me wonder where we will be at in 10 years with ITB mixing.
Absolutely!
Console wins for me.
Thank you for your input!
Hate to say this but console sounds better than the other two.
Thank you for your input!
Agree man, agree 😄
I prefer the itb mix, and with better use of transformer, tube, pre amp and compressor plugs, it would be no contest
I’m not saying this confrontationally or sarcastically, but with sincere curiosity… do you own/use any outboard gear?
Keep in mind this ITB mix is going through over $20.k in converters hitting transformers on every track on the way in and discrete opamps on the way out.
@@SHUTUPANDRECORD Used plenty own a few. Been musiking for 25 years with studio. Like u relentlessly searching my ultimate sound... Your burl and outboard will play a part in the ITB mix (if you tracked it), but to my ear the console stages smeared the transients too much and took away focus. Clean pres from a decent interface, a way of tracking with fx for the talent and smart work flow is what you need on 2024. We gotta roll with the times
@@simonpaynesoulmusic I love the simplicity and speed I can work ITB... but significantly more than half the time I compare outboard to ITB stuff (and I do extensive blind listening... it's basically my hobby)... I find the OB stuff more pleasing.
BUT, I don't always find it enough to spend the time to go OTB! lol
In the end, it's the carpenter not the hammer?!
@@simonpaynesoulmusic
The burls play a part because I transferred it through the burls and mixed using the burls. If you prefer the ITB mix that’s it.
API Summing > ITB > MCI Console
Sorry guys, to my ears, the console was the worst ...didn't like what it did to the vocals and didn't sound cohesive. Best was API, and then ITB for me.
iTB grooved more and moved me more than the console mix.
Thank for your input, there’s no reason to apologize the ITB mix does sound good. Great musicians, recorded in a great room, with great microphones and console to 2 inch tape goes along way. And this was now captured and mixed with over $20k worth of conversion.
All is equal these ^^^ parameters are the same on the summing and console mix.
Even the ITB mix are you hearing that analog warmth coming from the average studio using todays methods?
@@RiotHomeRecording yea totally, itb sounds warm, punchy and cohesive and is totally usable. API just had that something extra in allowing the vocal to pop out and the drums had a nice top end without sounding harsh. Great experiment would love to see more of this
@@darkozoric4184
Thank you!
A wave is a wave weather it's sourced through digital or analogue... study the wave, master the music... analogue adds to the wave, digital just recreates the wave. Analogue sounds great as standard (because of the addition), with digital you have to add to it yourself.... What are these additions. HARMONIC DISTORTION..... no more pearls from me.