Summing Mixer vs Console, Mixing Analog Tape Tracks
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- čas přidán 20. 02. 2024
- Summing Mixer vs Console, Mixing Analog Tape Tracks @RiotHomeRecording
The console mix is the exact mix from the last video.
The api mix is the ITB processing from the last video, but I used digital plug in compression & Eq in place of the analog hardware compression & Eq.
Many people say that plug in processing caught up with hardware.
Everyone can decide for themselves.
Summing & Console comparison at 10:42
Link to console mix video:
• Mixing Analog Tape Tra... - Hudba
A few side questions, please: Do you know how this MCI 400 series would sound versus a 500 series and/or a Yamaha PM2000. Have you tried Sphere, Raindirk and/or Electrodyne consoles?
Also, how would your MCI tape machine sound against a Scully 280, an Ampex MM1100/1200 or a later Sony APR, if you’re aware, please?
Thanks.
I’ve mixed on vintage Neve consoles, Vintage api, new api, sphere, SSL, Quad Eight, Mci 400 series, mci 600 series, Neotek, Tac, Midas, Soundcraft, Mackie, Yamaha PM series, Allen and Heath, etc…
I’m not familiar with a raindirk console.
My Mci 400 series is a very stripped down primitive console with not a lot of components in the signal path it has a lot of transformers and not a lot of capacitors. An MCI 500 series has many more capacitors because it has more features that require more components. I like my 400 series because it’s very simple and has a musical color, it sounds wide and dimensional.
A sphere console is cleaner and more hifi sounding in comparison. An Mci 600 series does not sound like my 400 series at all. It’s chip based with no transformers. A 500 series is closer to what I have but again has more features.
My tape machine is a 1983 Mci JH-24
And it’s sounds great, but in my opinion a Mci JH-16 with transformers sounds a bit sweeter.
Scullys are great, ampex are great, and Studers are great, 2 inch tape in general has a sound that certain styles of music can really benefit from IMO.
The great thing about JH-24’s is that they’re easy to fix and there’s a tons of parts available and still being made for them. And they’re relatively cheap.
I hope this helps.
Thank you!
@@RiotHomeRecordingThat means much; thanks.
I've mostly been trying to decide between a 400, a modded 500 and a modded PM-2000. I'd definitely need to modify a 500, of I were to go that route, but I like that some 500s work on 32V rails.
I really like the sound that you've been getting from your MCI 400 and R2R.
Thanks
@@RiotHomeRecording As a former JH-16 owner and former JH-24 user, the JH-16 may sound a little thicker but I would think the JH24 is perfect with your JH400 so things don't get too wooly. The JH24 is really one of the best sounding tape machines ever as it's more refined than the also excellent JH16. I do not like the 500 series that much due the complication and technical issues they can have but they do sound good. The JH500s can be good if you really keep up with the maintenance. I really did love my JH16 24 track though. I used it with a more modern Soundtracs console so it balanced out it's vintage sound just right.
Fantastic execution of moves on the console and summing mixer. I really dig the MCI air, girth, and separation. Both are top notch and would be grateful for either.
Thank you for the kind words!
Awesome. Great box, great idea. This is a very well-curated selection of top-notch gear - which, as we can hear, does what it's supposed to do. No substitute for analog, and especially Vintage analog.
Well said! Thank you!
I’m not a big fan of summing mixers but your API is very likable. I got the Waves 160A some months ago and it’s an excellent compressor. I hope to get a couple to replace my DBX266’s but I’m first saving up for a nice bus compressor. The goal is not to spend any money on plugins this year, only on hardware.
I love your channel and your amazing cool setup 👌🏼
The the weight and punch of the mix on the MCI just absolutely stomps on the API summing mixer, to my ears. Wow.
Thanks for your feedback!
That console sounds amazing! Holy wow. Really digging it. The API sum was really cool but you could feel the music that much more with the console. It wasn't close for me with this song. Thank you for the cool video!
Amazing! Thank you for your feedback!!!
Your assessment is dead on great ears! And thank you for the tip on using busses for paralleling the C2. I understand exactly what you mean. I guess I just wish they added that to the actual compressor. I emailed Allen Smart about having it done. I’d have to mail it out of the USA which I’m just not willing to do with other work arounds available like the one you just mentioned.
Thank you!
Excellent video! I always enjoy your videos. Really interesting comparison.
Both mixes sounded great, but the console was the clear winner for me!! I totally agree about the waves CLA 76 as well. I find it works well when you double up on it. Then I really like it.
Thank you I’ll have to try doubling up on it! Appreciate the tip!
the console is a trillion times better! thanks for the unique videos! All the best to you!
Thank you!
For me, that song comes across warmer on the MCI.
The mci adds color due to the amount of transformers that add saturation.
The api is cleaner and has a definition I hear especially in the low mids.
beautiful!!!
The console mix is the exact mix from the last video.
The api mix is the ITB processing from the last video, but I used digital plug in compression & Eq in place of the analog hardware compression & Eq.
Many people say that digital plug in processing caught up with hardware.
Everyone can decide for themselves.
Summing & Console comparison at 10:42
Link to console mix video:
czcams.com/video/4pEOGwac_Q8/video.htmlsi=6dFKqrQ3U-qMmOVb
This is a great real world example. If people think doing an ITB mix vs a Console mix means trying to match them identically, they are missing the point. Horses for courses. You simply make it sound right for each situation and wasting time worrying about exact same EQ and outboard settings doesn't make sense. Both mixes sound excellent. I much prefer working on a console however, so that's what I choose.
David 100% correct! There’s too many variables and how you push into one mixer the end result will be completely different pushing the same way into another mixer. Same with eq, compression, gain staging, etc… I mix based off my instinct and react quickly and move on. Many people beat a mix to death and wonder why every new revision sounds worse then the first print.
@@RiotHomeRecording exactly!
The console mix is in an entirely different universe and hands down far better. It sounded cleaner, more separation of instruments, had more body and contain the right amount of sheen. It instantly pleased my ears. No offense to the summing, but it sounded flat and a bit dull, almost like a purely ITB plugin mix. Because of costs I was considering a summing mixer, but you just saved me money.
agreed
When I mix I go off my initial instinct based off the feeling you just described. Lots of people say plug ins are just as good as hardware. Then why don’t I feel inspired the same way I do when I mix with hardware? Why don’t I hear the size and dimension in the plug ins like I do with hardware?
@@RiotHomeRecording exactly. While I do not have the same level of experience or equipment as you, I completely agree as I have found that to be the case. For example my UAD LA2A plugins do not sound the same nor achieve the same results as my UAD MK610 even with the preamp bypassed. I cannot understand why popular mixerson CZcams, even the so called legends tell people these falsehoods, but I assume for sponsorships. What these mixers do not tell you is their tracks have already been processed through consoles so they CAN mix and stay ITB at that point, but it was not tracked that way. My gear smokes my plugins. I'm a newbie and I can see this. I love your channel and your work. Please keep it up.
Fantastic sounding MCI board.
Thank you!
Thank you!
The console mix has a better bass response, more mid range.but also sounded a little louder as well, great job
more than a little ;-).. so thats a deal breaker for me in a comparison. And also a completely different EQ.
Thank you I appreciate your feedback!
The API is fantastic. But the console is bigger in lows, highs and separation
Love your videos
I appreciate that!
API sounded ok but the Console sounds like it is the original mix 👍🏾
Hey man! Love your channel. Im a bit of a noob when it comes to physical consoles. How does the signal come out of your converter/interface into the console? What cables and devices are used?
Ben,
My converters are a Burl Mothership with XLR outputs. I could wire my converters directly to my consoles line inputs, but to make life easier I wired my converters to a patch bay that is normalized to my console. This way when I want to send the DA output’s directly from my computer to any other device I can simply patch it in like I do here with my summing mixer. Otherwise I’d have to crawl behind my console and that’s a hassle.
Console all the way!
I appreciate your input!
All it takes is a blind test to dismantle you. 😅
That console sounds 3d. amazed
Yes it’s dimensional I agree.
Thank you
It,s s big difference between API and MCI mix in the stereo field.
The API have wider spread in the field and the MCI is more mid centred but also the pans of each instrument stands out much more, brass section- hard pans to each side faster each time it plays in the mix .The MCI sounds more slick and punchy and the API more natural. It’s also very big difference in the bass guitar on the MCI it sounds more compressed Eq,d and forward jumping out more in the mix on the API more even and natural sounding.
-you can do parallel compression on your mixer using the busses. Insert the C2 on two of your busses send all channels to the master and also to the buss with the C2 compressor then send the buss with C2 insert to the master. Now you have a parallel connection and the possibility to mix in 0-100% C2 on everything you send to the C2 buss.
If you don’t have routing directly to master buss from the busses you have to patch it in buss out- C2 - in to the mixer channel- send to master.
Your assessment is dead on great ears! And thank you for the tip on using busses for paralleling the C2. I understand exactly what you mean. I guess I just wish they added that to the actual compressor. I emailed Allen Smart about having it done. I’d have to mail it out of the USA which I’m just not willing to do with other work arounds available like the one you just mentioned.
Thank you!
i like the mci mix
Thank you!
Impressed by that summing mixer mix actually. Is there any summer mixer on the market currently that you have used and like the sound of? The Capi one seems interesting
@@lobit12 I like the inward connections mix 690.
@@RiotHomeRecording the Oracle one looks interesting as well. Would be hard to judge once over the other without hearing them but Im sure they are both great
I think i like the neve summing better than the api from what i heard on here
🏆🏆🏆
Idk the mci sounds like something you'd hear in the 80s on a TV show sounds legit
Absolutely!
Thank you!
♥
Sounds great. The MCI mix is like night and day. What's the name of the band? Sounds like Boz Scaggs
Thank you Malcome! I don’t know the name of the band I found these tracks on an old master tape. I’ll have to look up Boz Scaggs.
@@RiotHomeRecordingSilk Degrees is a perfect record
Great videos and great mixes! What band are you mixing there? :) Cheers, Mikkel
Thank you!
Wow, worlds apart. The console version is way better! Still, great mix in both cases, and great performance from the musicians. But i'd only buy the console version of the album ;-)
Thank you for your feedback!
the editing is great🫶🫶
Thank you!
MCI Console mix wins for me here... better bass and kick content, more upfront sound and it feels more dynamic.
Agreed thank you for your feedback!!!
You hear digital and you feel analog when mixing period. I hope digital gets there some day but it's just not there yet.
That’s a great way to put it.
Thank you!
I heard you say that you didn't like the sound of the api plugin versus the hardware. How do you feel about the uad Manley eq plugin?
It wasn’t the api plug in. It was the CLA 1176 Waves plug in compared to the hardware.
Thank you!
Ok. Have you tried the Manley passive eq by UAD? How do you like it?
Why your monitors are set flat not toed in? Coz you leaning to one side in ur sitting position? Thanks for video
I have perfect phantom image. My speakers and room are aligned.
@@RiotHomeRecording great, did u measure and reposition or also using a room correction solution?obviously u have a great room anws
Love the channel! Do you have a contact email for mixing rates? Love to chat more with you- im based in Nashville
Yes it’s voltiac@yahoo.com
Thank you.
Curious why your monitors aren’t angled to the listening position?
I have perfect phantom image and my monitors are aligned to my room.
So this is a console mix that was done using external HW (from the previous vid), with a new, purely ITB mix run through the API? I'm confused.
Yes, The console mix is the exact mix from the last video.
The api mix is the ITB processing from the last video, but I used plug in compression & Eq I place of the outboard compression & Eq.
Hope this clears it up a bit.
@@RiotHomeRecording Got it. So the big difference is due to different compressors and eq, different summing, AND different ears (i.e., you mixed it again). I point that out because some of the comments simply think this is about "summing mixer vs console" only.
Thanks
@@ParadNorthProd
Correct the analog hardware processors were replaced with digital plug in processors. On the summing mix. The only hardware on the api is the Mixbuss chain Smart C2 & Xfilter.
Bomb Factory; Dave Amels of Anamod ATS-1 fame
I remember the Anamod!
Console this time around
Thanks for your input!
Console to me.
And many others!
Both sound great man, the console has a bit more high 'S" frequencies, no?
Yes it does! Thank you!
Didn’t know Willem Dafoe ran a studio.
There’s a level-matching issue here. No way are they the same volume. That will account a lot for the commentary preference for the console.
Well now you know Bitch! William Defoe is in da house!
Thanks for taking the humour in the spirit it was meant. Your voice is a dead ringer for his.
And great videos! Loving them.
pr efer the console mix. sounds wider, clearer
Let me mix Dat stat on my console.
hello sir, how much do you charge per mix?
Console sounds way better!!!
Thanks for your feedback!
Of course console sound better. Never touched the drums, no eq no parallel compression..I didn't see him do anything but touch up the horns, vocals and organ...welp..lol..all and all still sounds great
There is parallel processing on the drums and I did treat the drum tracks, as I stated I’m taking the tracks from the first video and processing them through my summing mixer.
Thanks you!
@@RiotHomeRecording ok gotta check out the first video..
lol. Man that plug in sucks compared to the hardware piece...
And your point was you cannot mix in the computer? OK.
No that’s not my point, it’s just not as inspiring IMO. 😂
Thank you!
I think you can
So you're proving you have a big ego or no talent?
I just can’t believe negative people ,this gentlemen is doing a fantastic job ,must be a Windows user,Great job ,extremely interesting,totally awesome great song too❤
@@MartinMartin-yi9to
I do this out of love for the craft and have been doing it since I was 16 years old I started with a Tascam 424 portastudio cassette 4 track. If you don’t like me or my videos hit the thumbs down and it will take my videos out of your feeds rotation.
Hope all is well take care.