You talk non-stop for 14 minutes in a language that's not your mother tongue, and yet the info you are giving is precise, concise and incredibly informative. Grazie mille, sei un genio!👏
As PhD chemist myself and an amateur mechanic I could not be more thrilled with your approach, description and result, this is CZcams at its very best! I salute you sir!
@@beyond.ballistics They will likely take your formula to the USPTO. If you have an even better(secret) formula, and I bet you do, launch a brand yourself!
There are many effective ways to remove rust. Evaporust isn't selling a rust remover as much as it is selling convenience and relative safety. Their market is not threatened by DIYers like us.
Not theoretical :D I got the ingredients today and immediately tried it. Works like an absolute charm at only a fraction of the price of commercial stuff.
I already buy citric acid in bulk (to make lemon super juice), and I had the washing soda on hand for electrolysis. This is a pretty big game changer for me, and I confirm it works very, very well.
To those of you who have made some, could you derust something and also add a bit of some other common metals like aluminum, copper, and brass to see if there is any corrosion to them?
This is Peak CZcams! It is what the internet promised to be all those years ago! Beautifully explained, valuable information by a knowledgeable host all without baiting the audience.
And considering how painstaking and laborious some of his restorations are I think it's fair to assume he is fuelled by a 50/50 mixture of strong coffee an stubbornness. So yes, our dude deserves the best beans!
He already knows the best.We blacksmiths for years have used one part acetone and one part ATF to loosen rusted nuts. I repair old cast iron skillets in my shop and use simple electrolitical method which is found on CZcams also..
I tried this formula today. 1 litre hot water, 100 grams citirc acid and 40 grams washing soda. Soaked an old rusty brake caliper over night. Came out looking like new! This works!
might work for soaking but i made a batch and tried applying to rusty surfaces via spray bottle. doesn't do anything. naval jelly In the same area made the metal shiny.
@@JamesW-li5oi try soaking a towel with it and leaving it on the area you wish to clean. Place cling film or plastic over it to prevent the towel from drying out. I've seen that used with Evaporust.
There needs to be some sort of "blue collar" category for the Nobel Prize. I hereby nominate this man. I'm also certain that, if the gods are just, this video will end up with 100m views years from now. This is truly a Juggernaut of a discovery.
It appears that the citrate solution acts faster than the evapo-rust - which leads me to think that a better comparison test of the effective-ness of each solution, is to measure the base metal dissolution at the point where the rust has been removed. As opposed to waiting a certain amount of time for each solution to damage the base metals. If the citrate solution is substantially faster than the evapo-rust, the part would require much less time in the solution, which would mitigate some of the increased base metal dissolution. I would be interested to see a test of a uniformly (intentionally) rusted steel sheet, in both products, removed once the desired rust removal has occurred. Then measure the change to the host material (as well as the evolution of hydrogen from the adverse reaction if possible). Another great video, I love these technical firearm videos!
Agreed, it seems like this particular experimental process did his solution a potentially considerable disservice here. That said I suspect people would often leave parts in long after the rust has gone, perhaps leaving parts overnight to process so it's still relevant.
This formulation works AMAZINGLY well! I just tried it on a whole bin of rusty drill bits and it cleaned them perfectly in only 30 minutes. It didn't harm them at all and they're still sharp. And as is said in the video, the solution is STILL active and continues to clean. I've tried straight citric acid, oxalic acid, vinegar and so on and have never been happy with the results. But this simple chelating agent does the job perfectly. This is truly the best and most useful restoration video I've seen anywhere EVER. Thanks so much!
I 100% recommend this video. I read the comments at the beginning of this video, they sound like you got 100 or more acquaintances to comment on your video, but then I watched your video, they are right. This was my s CZcams at its finest this is exactly what you are looking for when you click on a video but rarely get if ever find. You Sir, not only came up with an AWESOME diy rust removing chemical solution but also managed to make a no fluff no BS succinct yet entertaining video. Amazing
Woooooh. Yeah! As a gunsmith, I look forward to your videos as much as i do Mark Novak's. You do a great job going into the chemistry details that other folk wont dare to do. Keep up the great work!
As a beginning gunsmith (waiting on FFL to process) I absolutely love learning from this guy's channel, Mark's channel, and many others. Best retirement career ever!
Fantastic! Stays on topic, extremely informative, and concise. No waffle, no unrelated stock images/video, well paced, no obnoxiously long channel intro, no BS. This is the standard all instructional videos should follow.
I appreciate you giving the formula time location at the start however, after listening for a few minutes I realized that the information you provide is valuable and worth the time of listening. I subscribed.
Same here! Rust is a horrible omnipresent thing for us. I think I heard there's an Evapo-Rust gel that can be applied to fixed structures which can't be bathed in it. How could we do the same to this solution?
Your not gonna restore your tools you will simply eat them away you know that adjustable wrench with a dial that fits together nicely yeah if that dial corroded to a point where it falls out you don't have an adjustable wrench anymore you effectively made a paper weight
There's a good article with tests from a German chemical manufacturer titled "Effective chelation with citrates and gluconates" - it has some useful figures on sequestering value vs. pH and solution temperature.
Words fail me on how to describe how much easier and better you've made many people's lives by researching, experimenting & posting this video (not to mention the formula, which you could well have made millions on had you been greedy). I'm flat broke at the moment but you can bet one of the first ports of call after buying the ingredients & soaking some tractor parts will be your patreon to make a donation to the cause. Thank you, really appreciate you sharing this.
One test I'd appreciate you performing is how it does on Nickel or Zinc. Not destroying those two is one of the other major selling points of EvapoRust. It's one of the major reasons I am using EvapoRust. Especially when restoring parts where only a section is rusted.
Although I haven't tried that specifically, Nickel is a very chemically intert metal, and I wouldn't expect the citrate solution to do any harm against it. Not sure about zinc, that I'll have to try.
I used citric acid to remove zinc plating on bolts. I do not know if reaction with washing soda will change that. You might want to try some bolts to see
@@desobrien3827 nickel is pretty damn resistant. Only way I see it taking that off is like how hard chrome comes off - the base steel has oxidized enough that when the rust is attacked, the plating no longer has anything to hold on to.
Wow! I know nothing of guns, really, but I like history and as part of that, view a lot of photos. I am the same with model airplane and aircraft recognition. When he dropped this magazine in the solution I found myself thinking “Bran”. The mind is an amazing thing!
I will be giving this a try! I've had five gallons of Evaporust soaking in the fuel tank of a 1952 Dodge M37 I've been restoring, which had old fuel sitting in it for over 25 years in the garage after my father parked it in 1997 and only tinkered on it a few times before burying it under junk and forgetting about it. The tank had a disgusting amount of scale within that vinegar and marbles didn't want to touch. The Evaporust indeed worked at first however I noticed it rapidly stopped working and there's still far too much rust in the tank for me to feel its satisfactorily clean. I was planning on finishing with a lot of vinegar rinses- but your formula here seems to be a much better solution. I was planning on using more Evaporust in the water jacket of the engine as well- but if this stuff works in the tank, I'll give it a whirl there too.
I am also wanting to try this out on the water jacket of an engine, and see how it goes. I was going to use Oxalic Acid, or Evaporust, but now I am keen to try this formula
You might think about using electrolysis...I did this with great success on a large motorcycle tank. Used an iron pipe as the electrode with tape on it to prevent it shorting out (put it in the sender hole). Had to grind the rust off the pipe every night, and it took like a week...but it was basically free and did an excellent job.
@@scottclark7559 this is a monstrous 24 gallon tank. I did a Volvo engine block in a poly 55 gallon drum before and I agree- it works. This tank is impractically large for something like that
@Booze_Rooster The MC tank was from a Goldwing...10 gallons maybe? I just filled the tank with water and hooked one end of the battery charger to the tank, and put an iron pipe down the sender hole for the other electrode. I would think if would work fine with a bigger tank, but would probably take longer. The sender hole is probably a lot bigger though, so you could probably also drop a much bigger pipe inside.
I don't even restore guns (I'd like to, but literally I wouldn't know where to start), but I watch every video you make and your advice is precious for other hobbies as well! This formula makes no exception! E il fatto che tu sia italiano rende tutto ancora più bello 😁
I started about 4 years ago working on shotguns and cheap iver johnson revolvers. I'm in the US so it may be different for you. But just jump into it with a cheapish, non collectable firearm as practice.
Green tea extract might be a decent choice for a safe corrosion inhibitor. It contains catecholins, which can create a single molecule protective layer on bare metal, but actually helps to solubilise oxides. It’s used in chemical-mechanical polishing solutions. Works at very low concentrations, so two or three tea bags worth per litre should be sufficient. Also, you could try adding a little more sodium salt to the mixture, so you end up with a higher pH. It’s still a very effective chelator and I bet just nudging the pH up to 5.5 or so (10-15% extra sodium carbonate) would put it at the same corrosion level as Evaporust.
@@PaulHanak Honestly, not entirely sure. Industrial solutions use an extract which is purified to contain just the helpful compounds, but the other things in green tea, like tannins and other phytochemicals probably won’t cause issues in this application so yeah, definitely worth a go just trying it the way you said.
@@simontillson482 I have a litre batch of the recommended solution on the bench. I will split it and add 2x teabags to one half and use the other as a control. We will see if they can be differentiated.
This guy is what CZcams is meant to be - honest simple straight to the point and consise with confirmed results at the end - you earned a sub here 👍simply brilliant 😄🇦🇺
Excellent video!! Super!! I am so impressed. I am a chemist by the way. Did you test your solution with dish soap against a formulation without dish soap? You use the dish soap as a surfactant. A more effective and common surfactant is the liquid fabric softener that you use in the laundry. The next time you do your laundry, and there are bubbles all around, throw in a capful of liquid fabric softener. The bubbles will disappear because they need surface tension to form. I do agree that a surfactant is helpful in your formulation. From Wiki: "Rinse-cycle softeners usually contain cationic surfactants of the quaternary ammonium type as the main active ingredient." Keep making these great videos.
Great video, I made up the solution as detailed using washing soda but I used an old bottle of Kodak Photo-Flo 200 which I had lying around from B&W film processing days as a surfactant. Photo-Flo is "...a wetting agent used to minimize water marks or streaks during film development. It is used after the final wash when processing films to decrease the water-surface tension and promote faster, more uniform drying." Does not contain perfumes or colorants like fabric softener or dish soap. Worked really well!
Tried your recipe a week or so ago - for the first time... Then made 3 25 litre buckets of solution up, it's been a brilliant means of restoring tools that have built up rust over the years... Thank you for putting this out there.
Adding the base to water first then acid is much safer and doesn't bubble, just tested it as it is the common way to mix acid. For me mixing the base last, it started smoking while bubbling and it really stings to breathe in 😅 The other way around there wasn't any bubbling or smoke. And to prolong the mix, clean the parts in straight lye and soap first. If there is any oil on it this removes the most of it
Right, I make soap like you said, first adding lye to water, than add lye water to liquid oils and in the end adding other ingredients like citric acid.
Citric acid is a much weaker acid than hydrochloric or sulfuric where you need to worry about that. It is safe as he described. If you used washing soda or baking soda and didn't get bubbles regardless of mixing order, there is something wrong. Bubbles here are carbon dioxide from the base, rather than boiling water from heat from diluting strong acid.
Man this is FASCINATING. I've been avoiding buying a new bottle of evaporust because it's expensive. I already have citric acid and washing soda at home, so now I'm good to go! Thank you so much! I'm pretty excited because I have a pile of old tools in need of restoration.
I've made a batch this afternoon and tested it on an imposibly rusted peice of 3mm x 25mm angle iron. It took 2 hours, but it dissolved all the rust. EXCELLENT STUFF!😁
This is an extremely magnanimous action on your behalf!!!! Corporations/governments want to ring everlast cent from us, and you're doing this out of decency, and kindness! May our Creator bless you!
I know this comment is likely too late to ever be seen, but ive taken your recipe and did some experimenting in an ultrasonic cleaner, at 50c the solution appears to be the most effective (tested from room temperature to boiling), ive been running the ultrasonic cleaner for 30min with out prepping the metal at all and it does a wonderful job, it allows the solution to penetrate threads and removes scale in places you cant access with other equipment. i submerged a cast aluminium water pump with metal bolts entirely seized and full of corrosion, after the treatment it spun freely, removed all corrosion and all bolts were removed with ease. thankyou.
This was a fantastic find! I work with model trains, and for the pre-WWII trains, there is frequent discussion on how to safely and efficiently remove rust. I am sharing this with my friends.
You, sir, are an official MVP for all Men of the world who work with tools/DIY/Automotive/workshop/metalwork. Thank you for your service My good man...
Big THANKS!! I'm doing a full restoration on a 2007 Volvo XC70 I bought as a project. Your video has been a life saver! I paid in Canada about $14 for 2lb of citric acid anhydride. I saw the tip of the green tea as inhibitor. I plan to spray with brake cleaner and prime/paint right after. As an engineer I loved your DOE and how you actually made a scientific approach with similar samples, baseline etc. I give you A++
Wonderful video, thank you. I have used citric acid for years as a rust/corrosion remover. I discovered that it worked better with a little Dawn dish soap added. I used baking soda to neutralize the acid on the finished product. I NEVER would have intentionally mixed the three together and expected a BETTER product.
Thanks for the great vid and all your hard work! Note: pH 1 to 4 is 1000x less acidic; Logarithmic means 10x per unit, so 3 units is 10^3 = 1000 Bonus tip: 0.3 units is double (roughly) Geeky note: this is for the 'natural logarithm', ie, 10; youbcan have any number Cheers Edit: log bases are evil, Base answer exponent ie, Log (10) 1000 = 3 Equivalent to 10^3=1000
Well, mostly right. Except there are two log scales that are used frequently, Base 10 logs and natural logs (Base e). e is an irrational number like pi and is approximately 2.71828. The pH scale uses the base 10 log scale where the pH value (ph 4, for example) means the concentration of acid is 1.0 x 10^(-4) = 0.0001 moles/L. "pH" comes from the German language form of negative log.
@steveh8724 yup you're right about natural logs, and natural logarithm is "ln" (pronounced 'lawn') Didn't know about the German origins of pH tho! Thanks 😺
I've been following your channel for a long time, in terms of theory and practice in restoring weapons to their original condition, i.e. without fakes, in my opinion the best here!!!! I had already assumed that you worked professionally in the chemical industry. Big praise for your work and sharing your knowledge, keep it up 👍🏼 Best regards, The Electroplater 😉
This was well, well worth the wait. As a non-chemist, I tried to recreate Evaporust, and failed. You're awesome for making this video and the clear presentation of the content. Thank you!
so happy to see this today. I'm retired, and have a small hobby shop. I like to repurpose found steel, but cannot afford to buy 5 gallon buckets of EvapoRust. This is a perfect solution, and with materials that I already have on hand. I always have citric acid and washing soda on hand, I can't wait to try this.
This is a fantastic solution you've found. There's a lot of "real life needs" here too. In most cases whether firearms, tools, or just rusty machine parts what we need is ALL the rust GONE in one application and it's perfectly acceptable for the base metal to be attacked as long as it's only a tiny amount. Also the job needs to be done in a couple hours or less. This ticks the boxes. I've got a rusty bandsaw that needs to be restored and this may just do it. I can actually afford to mix up several gallons of this unlike buying a 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust that would cost me half what replacing the band saw would cost defeating the entire purpose of cleaning it up.
This is an amazing video! Thank you for continuing to help gunsmiths around the world with your unbiased testing and dedication to the community! I've learned so much from watching your channel... Thank you so much!
Finally, an excellent video on making your own rust remover that works. Thanks a million!!! Excellent video on all counts! I should also add: For years I have been making my own Washing Soda as I need it for electrolysis when I cook metal to remove rust - but I'm liking this video's solution better! To make your own washing soda, take baking soda and pour on any cookie tin/sheet and place in a 400 deg F preheated oven for 1 hour 10 min, occasionally mixing it every 20 mins or so. That's it! Once I went to the store to buy washing soda and they were out. Ever since, I just make my own. I buy 50lb bags of food grade baking soda for around $70 Canadian. Hope that helps. This also means that the washing soda will always be fresh and at full strength.
This is genius. Your planning and execution of these tests was near flawless. You even provide precise instructions for how to replicate your results. This is the internet at its very best.
The internet delivers! A smart guy on youtube tells me how to make my life better, and it doesn't involve me stopping eating icecream! Many thanks for your efforts, and everything that went into sharing this!
This is historical. The amount of people who have been needing and searching for a solution is unmeasurable. You have made a massive leap in all things metal restoration. Also is that a Bren magazine?
Please do the inhibitor tests, that video will be the holy grail of all rust removal videos for the rest of time if it's of the same quality as this one, and I have no doubt.
In my experience, using an ultrasonic to loosen pitting corrosion will make the evaporust work beter, but I might try your solution as well. Thanks for posting this.
I can confirm this works perfectly! I watched this video 2 days ago, immediately ordered the citric acid online and went to a local store for the sodium carbonate and then the citric acid came in today I tried it out. I live in the NL and paid 17 euros for 2kg of citric acid and 95 cents for a kilo of sodium carbonate. I made a test batch with 500ml of water and dunked a cut off piece of angle iron in it that was rusty AF from being outside for at least a year. It removed/converted all the rust in maybe 4 hours time. Going to make a roughly 20 liter batch now so that I can remove the rust from inside a motorcycle tank.
@@rupertthomson For what it's worth: I measured 500ml of regular tapwater, added to that 50 grams of citric acid powder and stirred until it was all disolved. I then added 30 grams of the sodium carbonate (which in my case came in the form of 'silver soda'. The fizzing was immediate and lasted for around 10 seconds. I stirred it all again so that no solids were visible in the water. There will be some bubbles in the water but it'll be an all clear liquid. Do you want to share what happened during your first attempt?
@@pyramidsinegypt You know, I was wrong! It did work, I just didn't see it properly because I was lazy and just looking through the solution. When I took it out, it had indeed taken a lot of the rust off. I have just given the item a scrub and put it back in for another overnight soak. The item is a small steel wedge I found on an abandoned railway, it was covered in hard red rust, almost like it had been wrapped in sandpaper. It is mostly grey coloured now. I will try with some rusty bolts tomorrow. As for the mixing process, I mixed up the recipe for 1 litre of tap water (very soft here, not much in the way of dissolved minerals) using 100 g Citric acid and 63 g bicarbonate of soda, poured the water in and got the big fizzy reaction you described. When the fizzing stopped I mixed in a small squirt of fairy liquid (dishwashing liquid) as in the video. I added maybe 3 ml of it. The biggest lesson I have taken from this experiment is to properly examine the work rather than relying on a glancing look! Ha ha!
THANK YOU. I cannot stress enough my gratitude for this useful information you have presented. I have always been skeptical and hesitant to use most of the commercial rust removers. It struck me that for them to as affective as described, they also had to be damaging the base metal. Commenting on your channel, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. You come across as sincere with all your presentations, they are clear, derailed, and easy to follow. I have learnt a lot from your videos. Keep up the good work.
Effing brilliant, Mate. This is important information for any field that confronts metal exposed to the elements. Combine this with rust proofing techniques and you can preserve components indefinitely.
This is great! Definitely saving this video for future reference. One further thing of interst is how does your solution perform in mixed metal and painted situations - where perhaps something like Aluminum or brass is mixed in mechanically with the base item to have rust removal done. Evaporust performs adequacy most of the time in these circumstances.
Simply stunning. I was skeptical and expected nothing when I tested this. I was happily surprised. I like working on old cars and old shop equipment - both breeding farms for rust. I tested one piece for which I had a virtual twin in the same rusty state as a control. Amazing! I cannot say thank you enough. This will save a ton of work and a ton of unnecessary grinding - wire brushing. Thank you sir!
i went into this a total skeptic. im a huge fan of evap-o-rust but annoyed at its cost. im also a hobbiest machinist and enjoy restoring tools and machines so metal loss is a big fear of mine. well sir, im impressed!! THANK YOU for sharing this. subscribed!
Love the formula idea. I was interested in chatgpts opinion and possible improvements and it suggested For 1 liter of water: 100g Citric Acid 40g Sodium Carbonate (or 63g Baking Soda or 30g Caustic Soda) 10g to 20g EDTA 1g to 2g Sodium Nitrite Dish Soap (a few drops) EDTA chelating agent for improved removing and sodium nitrite for rust inhibitor
I almost never comment. Now I do. I can confirm the method works! My case the most surprising fact was that it requires no effort. Bury the stuff in it, sprinkle the acid solution. Literally works in any combination.
Thank you, my friend! I am a coin collector and I have just mixed up a batch of your juice to see if it would shift green verdigris from old bronze coins. It works very, very well! I tried it on some scrap coins ranging from modern to Roman times. It is very good for bronze and zinc coins, but you should be careful not to leave bronze in the solution for too long. It cleans brass too but it lightens the colour of the metal almost immediately, which is not ideal. I will do more careful experiments before using this on good coins, but it is going to be a very useful technique for my coin preservation activities.
@@HermitFab Much information can be gathered from the Safety Data Sheets, there are several for Evapo-rust (country specific I think) and some contain more information then others.
The German SDS has the ingredients listed and a percentage range for each ( not specific percentage) This is because, unlike USA, Australian and other HSE law the manufacturer cannot make vague claims as to the ingredients, even when the chemical is deemed to be safe.
So Evaporust is a mild acid. When in the video citric acid is mixed with washing soda, the bubbles tell that washing soda is neutralizing citric acid and make a gaz in the process. It still act faster as it's more acidic than evaporust. But if you want a less acidic solution, the best is still to put less citric acid (and you save some money not using washing soda). The second ingredient in evaporust is a corrosion inhibitor. If you want 5% citric acid like in evaporust, simply use 50g of citric acid per liter (that's the beauty of the metric system).
Absolutely EXCELLENT information conducted extremely professionally! My only suggestion for improvement is when pouring the 20 liter container, turn around so the opening is at the top. That way, as you pour, it will flow out without sloshing which is a much better technique to pour liquid from a container. I mean no disrespect, only pointing it out so as to show a better technique.
I've tested for many days having a socket in 30% solid citric acid and 2% salt it was HEAVILY rusted and took about one day to get rust free. I then left it around 3 weeks without any damage on the remaining steel. Citric acid is really cheap, i bought it from a farmers market for about 40 USD for a 25 KG bag, if buying in regular store it costs over 150 USD KG! Will try your blend
Turns out somebody already did back in 1995! After my "discovery" I researched the matter more in-depth and found a patent saying basically the same things that I'd found out
@@beyond.ballistics Yeah, there are so many humans now, it's easy to find 2 or more people having the same idea at the same time or finding someone beat you to it. I'm glad you still did your experiments and found a cheap rust remover for gunsmiths and maybe mechanics.
Automaticly if you have a video on the internet or any text describing the mix the no one can patent it later anyway 😉 You have to start the patent application before uploading the mix on internet (at least by my local laws for patents) i know this since i was about to apply for patent for a tool i made but it would cost at least 1000usd and it was not far from some other known tool so i didn't bother. It was a linked sliding hammer tool specifically for automotive oxygen sensor since on my old Audi RS4 B7 to change the wideband one everyone and the OEM manual says to drop the gearbox or whole engine and that is a 24H job, making the tool and replacing all 4 was 1.5 hours 😅😁
Kudos for your commitment and to your own time spent on researching something that will work for many of us. This is truly amazing and this is why I always go to your channel for actual information provided in a clear way. You had my curiosity, now you have my attention!
Thanks a lot for your scientifically well -based presentation. I am a chemical engineer with 40 years spent in the oil industry where I could gather all kind of experience from very widely separated areas. You are great.
You say the only advantage of Evaporust is the lack of hydrogen evolution. In fact this is a highly significant difference. Hydrogen embrittles alloy steels which is an issue where springs or high strength steels are used, for instance in automotive applications. Mild steel is not embrittled so bracketry, sheet casings etc are unaffected. But you would definitely be ill advised to use an acidic solution for cleaning stressed parts made from high carbon steels. In industry acid pickling is followed by baking at high temperature to diffuse out the hydrogen but it is much better not to introduce hydrogen because not all can be removed this way. It disrupts the crystal lattice forming weak points and being a small molecule it can relatively easily diffuse into the crystal lattice.
That's definitely still an advantage, but the thing is if you're refinishing after de-rusting, you most likely will need to evolve at least a bit of hydrogen on the surface. That is true for phosphating primers, parkerizing, electroplating, and the pre-bluing etching. In all these cases the hydrogen coming from the citrate composition will be small compared to the finishing one. I'd still be careful with long soak times on high strength steel kept under load, like a loaded leaf spring.
Been using citric acid for years on rusted parts, saw it long ago on some forum. My mix is 0.5kg on 10 liters, it acts slowly and leaves a black hard residue that goes of with a light pass of a steel brush. Did gastanks, brake calipers, suspension bits etc. Will definitly try this, seems better in every way!
I have both Bren and Sten magazines like yours although in better condition. For the anecdote I have found them with a German bayonet some gun powder and plenty of bullets in a wooden box hidden in a barn own by my family. This barn was used as a shelter by the french resistance during the war. Finding this box was like opening a time capsule, such an amazing feeling!
Great handling of this topic. Really like you you get the point across so clearly and quickly. My career has been for decades, getting boilers clean on their initial as built condition. All boilers are welded together from rusty iron and steel, but the interior needs to be rust and corrosion free to be useful to run. Not surprisingly, with the volumes of systems like this, 75,000 to 100,000 gallons, cost is an imperative part of the decision. For reference and to search the correct terms, try "commercial Citric boiler cleaning" We start with the degreaser hot for a few hours, then ADD the citric acid directly to the solution, with the inhibitor. A few hours watching the Iron content looking for it to go steady, then add the carbonate to the same solution. We dont use caustice usually because locally near the addition point, iron can fall out of solution and foul the system. Then we cool somewhat and add in Sodium Nitrite to passivate. (Nitrite not Nitrate). Works a treat... there is also a more expensive but more selective process that uses EDTA. Also something to look up.
THIS HAS TO BE THE BEST VIDEO ON RUST REMOVAL I HAVE EVER SEEN. I HAVE BEEN USING HOME MADE SOLUTIONS FOR AT LEAST 50 YEARS. YOUR WORK ON A KILLER FORMULA WITH AN EMPHASIS ON LOW COST IS THE BEST SO FAR. I HOPE THAT I CAN ADD TO YOUR PROGRESS IF I CAN. I TIP MY HAT OFF TO YOU SIR. JOB WELL DONE. PEACE TO YOU TOO, V
@@unclefista MUCH EASIER TO SEE LARGE TEXT THAT IS ALL. I AM NOT SHOUTING EVEN THOUGHT THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE SAYS I AM. CAN YOU FIND IT IN YOUR HEART TO FORGIVE ME ?? THANKS V
Trilon-b costs a penny, removes all rust without touching the metal. BUT, if you leave it in water for a long time, new rust will form from the oxygen in the water and the water (in the water), and it will also dissolve it, so you need to pay attention to the details. It costs a penny, a 25 kg bag costs a hundred bucks or something like that.
I've seen people on forums suggesting adding urotropine to trilon-b solution for this exact purpose - corrosion inhibition. But I don't remember the exact concentrations
ElementalMaker did some testing on an EvapoRust alternative and he settled on tetrasodium EDTA and citric acid. Na4EDTA is the same active ingredient for Trilon-B
@@MechTechMax EvapoRust IS EDTA, check datasheets. EDTA, Weight + 10% solution for 18-20C temp, cleaned old rusted horseshoe in about 10 hours to white metal without scrubbing.
Thanks for sharing your fantastic formula. I have seen a video with a guide made a homemade you wm evapurust very cheap, ph of 7 but took a lot longer to work. Tetrasodium EDTA 5mg per 100mls distilled water. Add a very little amount of citrus acid it to bring ph back down to 7. Tetrasodium EDTA is cheap in his country but not cheap in Australia. Cheers Graham
An epic discovery for many uses! Will be a game changer for rusted motorcycle gas tanks. I'm quite surprised at the quick degradation of the Evaporust, considering the cost.
Could be the citrate solution is more concentrated than the EDTA in Evaporust. Have you tried making a more neutral solution? 30g of NaOH is basically only half the citric acid since citric acid has 3 acid groups so you need about triple the amount of NaOH to fully quench it. You could add NaOh until the PH goes from 4 to 6 (basically you have quenched 2 of the 3 groups at that point), should take another 10g of base or so. You would still have a few free carboxyl groups on the citric acid left at that point but it would do far less damage since iron can passivate against the acid at that point, so you could end up with something that only dissolves rust but the iron is relatively immune. Really, really hard to post thanks to youtube now. if the text reads weird I had to remove some words.
Yeah, YT's AI removes comments with many math formulas, symbols, odd syntax characters, as well as the names of some political parties, and references to any other smedia company.
It doesn't matter how many acid groups it has but what is an equation for the complete reaction calculated using atomic / particle mass. Then you have to take into consideration that those compounds are not chemically 100% grade and/or contain moisture. Best bet would be to do the theoretical reaction calculation and simply give a bit more of the soda compound just to be sure all citric acid reacted. And then the final sodium citrate has also so ions going on in the water solution so that itself is determining the PH. He could cheat a little making it a bit more diluted.. like erm 3 times, based on his experiment and then really we could tell which solution is doing more damage to the bare metal, that would really be more like an apple to apple comparison. Anyway the experiment is excellent besides this minor flaw and it looks like such a simple way to get unexpectedly awesome results and all that done in a shed not a lab 😅
@@DamianB82 It does matter how many groups it has. Believe me 1mol of citric acid needs 3 mol of NaOH to bind all acid groups on the citric acid - I have done this before. 40g of NaOH is 1mol, 100g citric acid is about 0,5mol, therefore you have reacted a bit more than half with the 30g or what it was, also the pH still being 4 is a pretty good sign there is still a lot of acid left. Due to the multiple carboxyl groups, each having their own ph at 3,4 and 6 if the pH is still 4 all of the strongest groups are filled but over all there are still some open, if the pH drops to 6 all pH4 groups are sated. EDIT: Oh and wiith the strong base NaOH you can't go fully neutral, it will always remain slightly acidic, with the weak bases you can (sodium carbonates). You can google "weak acid strong base titration" or "titration curve citric acid naoh" - it has been 20years since I've done this in the lab so I am not 100% on the details anymore to be honest but you could definately get a more neutral solution .
@@Snarlacc Ok, well I guess i didn't understand really what you had in mind with the 3 acid groups, thought you were to say that since that you need ratio of 3:1 by weight, which is not the case and while the neutral solution certainly need 3 parts of NaOH for one part of C₆H₈O₇, that doesn't mean you need 3 weight parts of caustic soda for 1 weight of citric acid :D It's 20 years since I've been doing those kind of calculations but I believe it should look something like this: C₆H₈O₇ + 3NaOH → Na₃C₆H₅O₇ + 3H₂O C₆H₈O₇ = 6x12+8x1+16x7 = 72+8+184 = 264 3NaOH = 3x(23+16+1) = 3x40 = 120 So basically the ratio for fully neutral reaction should be 264/120 = 2.2 So if he used 100g of citric acid (assuming anhydrous citric acid > 99) so to neutralize citric acid he should use ~45,45g of caustic soda (again assuming anhydrous >99%) But I believe this is not the expected outcome, since for this to work out sodium citrate is working here as an inhibitor to prevent further metal oxidation from happening, while the rest of the acid is eating up iron oxide (rust) which is easier to react in this environment. The real question is what is the optimal ratio for this, but knowing reaction of this whole process is beyond (rusted) knowledge, pun intended :).
@@DamianB82 Not neccessarily, like EDTA citrates are chelators, so this could work by skewing the dissolution konstant in the aqueous soloution by sequestering free iron ions to force more iron to dissolve and rust dissolves first. This does not depend on acidity, and it would take a lot more time like buffered EDTA solutions (in the hoours to days), but it would be a very soft process. That was my point, I have seen it doone with neutral EDTA on a rusty sword with a fine engraving, where it worked spectacularly, but the EDTA was also bedded in AGAR so it stays on instead of dipping the whole in aqueous solution because of the wood and brass on the hilt. Not depending on the acid but purely on its chelating properties. I have tried, abe even a totally neutralized solution will eat rust! - If very slow, but that also keeps the damage to a minimum. You are dividng atomic weight that's not how acid-base reactions are calculated, it's mol per mol per group (although the final carboxyl group dooes not really like to dissociate and it might not be exactly 3:1), and you have miscalculated for citric it's 192g/mol. My book says it's three times the amount of single value base to a 3 value acid.
How do you dispose of this mix? Evoporust make a point of saying it can be poured down the drain safely, can this also be disposed of likewise? Great video, thank you!
Citric acid is lemon juice and the soda's range from baking over washing to drain cleaner, so I dare to say it can be dumped in your household drain without worrying
At my place of work, we use EDTA solutions of strengths 3-20% as a chemical cleaning agent for calcium based scale. The chemical works well, but the chemical is extremely expensive. I have been planning on neutralized citric acid/ sodium citrate as a cheaper alternative. Funny to see that we had a similar idea here.
You talk non-stop for 14 minutes in a language that's not your mother tongue, and yet the info you are giving is precise, concise and incredibly informative. Grazie mille, sei un genio!👏
Staying on a specific topic for longer than 30 seconds is a vanishing skill. But if someone has it, they can do it regardless.
he really is a fantastic presenter, which is even better given it isn't even his native language.
Hurrah! Thank you for giving him this compliment. It’s so well-deserved!
If only the current US president could do that.
@@ieetpeople4003 I hear they're looking for a new one!
As PhD chemist myself and an amateur mechanic I could not be more thrilled with your approach, description and result, this is CZcams at its very best! I salute you sir!
Evaporust corporate leadership calling an emergency morning meeting today
I tried getting in touch with their customer support about two months ago. They didn't even bother to reply. I'm sure they'll regret that now.
@@beyond.ballistics They will likely take your formula to the USPTO. If you have an even better(secret) formula, and I bet you do, launch a brand yourself!
I’m sure their lawyers are working on a way to get the video taken down
are they serving citric acid at that morning meeting ?
There are many effective ways to remove rust. Evaporust isn't selling a rust remover as much as it is selling convenience and relative safety. Their market is not threatened by DIYers like us.
You did it. You actually did it. A theoretical DIY rust remover better than Evapo-Rust has been the holy grail of garage mechanics forever. Wow!
Not theoretical :D I got the ingredients today and immediately tried it. Works like an absolute charm at only a fraction of the price of commercial stuff.
I already buy citric acid in bulk (to make lemon super juice), and I had the washing soda on hand for electrolysis. This is a pretty big game changer for me, and I confirm it works very, very well.
To those of you who have made some, could you derust something and also add a bit of some other common metals like aluminum, copper, and brass to see if there is any corrosion to them?
This is gold. It was what CZcams started off as, for people like you, sharing precious information.
This is what my CZcams looks like. Try subscribing to more channels like his and that's what yours will be like again.
Yeah, and it used to have no advertisements. They promised us there would never be advertisements, even once it would be sold and forever after. Lies!
@@michaellauinger7406 get premium or use an ad blocker
This is Peak CZcams! It is what the internet promised to be all those years ago! Beautifully explained, valuable information by a knowledgeable host all without baiting the audience.
I wish you that every coffee you order ist just perfect. Men like you do not deserve any bad coffee!
And considering how painstaking and laborious some of his restorations are I think it's fair to assume he is fuelled by a 50/50 mixture of strong coffee an stubbornness. So yes, our dude deserves the best beans!
Everyone deserves a bad coffee here and there. Makes the other ones taste better.
I wish him both sides of his pillow is cool and comfy
Sweet! Subscribing now.
We gotta tell Project Farm about this ASAP
@projectfarm Check out this dirt cheap, effective, EvapoRust alternative! :D
He already knows the best.We blacksmiths for years have used one part acetone and one part ATF to loosen rusted nuts. I repair old cast iron skillets in my shop and use simple electrolitical method which is found on CZcams also..
What's atf?@@ericsprado4631
IKR!?
@@ericsprado4631 What is ATF? And how does acetone help in the process?
The recipe:
* Per 1L of H2O
1: 100grams Citric Acid.
2: 40grams Sodium Carbonate / 63Grams Sodium Bicarbonate / 30grams Sodium Hydroxide.
After reaction has completed, add final ingredient.
3: Arbitrary amount of liquid dish soap.
whats in that dish soap?
@@DeFlanko Dawn
Will the rust come back after a few days?
@@vananinurrizki3374 rust always comes back if you don't protect the metal.
@@PandaMan02 protected with what chemical compatibel?
I tried this formula today. 1 litre hot water, 100 grams citirc acid and 40 grams washing soda. Soaked an old rusty brake caliper over night. Came out looking like new! This works!
It would even be possible to do it with the caliper still attached to the car, but not in its working position, of course
@@erik_dk842 I wouldn't risk weakening pins and piston rubber gaskets and brake fluid lines tho
might work for soaking but i made a batch and tried applying to rusty surfaces via spray bottle. doesn't do anything. naval jelly In the same area made the metal shiny.
@@JamesW-li5oi try soaking a towel with it and leaving it on the area you wish to clean. Place cling film or plastic over it to prevent the towel from drying out. I've seen that used with Evaporust.
@@EttoreB93 Nothing worse than driving through a few weeks of Northern salted winter roads
Best restoration channel on CZcams
It is, absolutely!
Agreed! I just found him and binged 3 videos filled with awesome info! Subscribed for sure!
The best after his main channel: www.youtube.com/@Backyard.Ballistics 😉
@@retro-mondo Self-explanatory 🙂👍🏼
Rust-oration😂😂
There needs to be some sort of "blue collar" category for the Nobel Prize. I hereby nominate this man. I'm also certain that, if the gods are just, this video will end up with 100m views years from now. This is truly a Juggernaut of a discovery.
It appears that the citrate solution acts faster than the evapo-rust - which leads me to think that a better comparison test of the effective-ness of each solution, is to measure the base metal dissolution at the point where the rust has been removed. As opposed to waiting a certain amount of time for each solution to damage the base metals.
If the citrate solution is substantially faster than the evapo-rust, the part would require much less time in the solution, which would mitigate some of the increased base metal dissolution.
I would be interested to see a test of a uniformly (intentionally) rusted steel sheet, in both products, removed once the desired rust removal has occurred. Then measure the change to the host material (as well as the evolution of hydrogen from the adverse reaction if possible).
Another great video, I love these technical firearm videos!
Absolutely well explained.
Agreed, it seems like this particular experimental process did his solution a potentially considerable disservice here. That said I suspect people would often leave parts in long after the rust has gone, perhaps leaving parts overnight to process so it's still relevant.
How often do you get things that have a uniform layer of rust tho? That's the real world issue you need to work around
This formulation works AMAZINGLY well! I just tried it on a whole bin of rusty drill bits and it cleaned them perfectly in only 30 minutes. It didn't harm them at all and they're still sharp. And as is said in the video, the solution is STILL active and continues to clean. I've tried straight citric acid, oxalic acid, vinegar and so on and have never been happy with the results. But this simple chelating agent does the job perfectly. This is truly the best and most useful restoration video I've seen anywhere EVER. Thanks so much!
thanks for letting us know you tried it out!
Best legit channel on youtube. This guy is legit OG.
I 100% recommend this video. I read the comments at the beginning of this video, they sound like you got 100 or more acquaintances to comment on your video, but then I watched your video, they are right. This was my s CZcams at its finest this is exactly what you are looking for when you click on a video but rarely get if ever find. You Sir, not only came up with an AWESOME diy rust removing chemical solution but also managed to make a no fluff no BS succinct yet entertaining video. Amazing
Woooooh. Yeah! As a gunsmith, I look forward to your videos as much as i do Mark Novak's. You do a great job going into the chemistry details that other folk wont dare to do. Keep up the great work!
As a beginning gunsmith (waiting on FFL to process) I absolutely love learning from this guy's channel, Mark's channel, and many others. Best retirement career ever!
@@paulis7319 he makes extremely underrated content. He really deserves more views and subscriptions.
Fantastic! Stays on topic, extremely informative, and concise. No waffle, no unrelated stock images/video, well paced, no obnoxiously long channel intro, no BS. This is the standard all instructional videos should follow.
Waffle comment wasting my time
Thank you for not just showing off, but teaching in a clear way.
I appreciate you giving the formula time location at the start however, after listening for a few minutes I realized that the information you provide is valuable and worth the time of listening. I subscribed.
Agreed!
I also needed a inexpensive deruster for automotive parts. I'm going to try this.
I was thinking of my brake calipers the whole time I was watching this. I was also wondering if it would help or be safe in an ultrasonic cleaner.
HOLY MOTHER!!!!!!! I live close to the sea. Rust on tools is a constant battle for me. You are a GENIUS BUD!!! THANK YOU for this!!!!!!!!!!!
You're welcome
Same here! Rust is a horrible omnipresent thing for us.
I think I heard there's an Evapo-Rust gel that can be applied to fixed structures which can't be bathed in it. How could we do the same to this solution?
@@MoritzvonSchweinitz maybe Methylcellulose /wallpaper paste?
@@MoritzvonSchweinitz fumed sillica
Search youtube for How to thicken / gel phosphoric acid for rust removal
Your not gonna restore your tools you will simply eat them away you know that adjustable wrench with a dial that fits together nicely yeah if that dial corroded to a point where it falls out you don't have an adjustable wrench anymore you effectively made a paper weight
There's a good article with tests from a German chemical manufacturer titled "Effective chelation with citrates and gluconates" - it has some useful figures on sequestering value vs. pH and solution temperature.
That's very interesting, I'll read that. Thank you for suggesting.
A few details or link please.
@@murray4826 That's the exact title, it's searchable. CZcams removes nearly all comments with links.
@@scilojI've found that even posts with a URL spelled out as domain_name dot something will often be removed.
Jungbunzlauer ?
Words fail me on how to describe how much easier and better you've made many people's lives by researching, experimenting & posting this video (not to mention the formula, which you could well have made millions on had you been greedy).
I'm flat broke at the moment but you can bet one of the first ports of call after buying the ingredients & soaking some tractor parts will be your patreon to make a donation to the cause. Thank you, really appreciate you sharing this.
I now know why I was putting off de-rusting all my old rusty tools - I was waiting for the perfect DIY method. Now I have no excuse ! Great work !
One test I'd appreciate you performing is how it does on Nickel or Zinc. Not destroying those two is one of the other major selling points of EvapoRust. It's one of the major reasons I am using EvapoRust. Especially when restoring parts where only a section is rusted.
When I have used Evaporust, it took the zinc coating off...not sure about nickel.
In my experience it does that when underneath the coating lies rust.
Although I haven't tried that specifically, Nickel is a very chemically intert metal, and I wouldn't expect the citrate solution to do any harm against it.
Not sure about zinc, that I'll have to try.
I used citric acid to remove zinc plating on bolts. I do not know if reaction with washing soda will change that. You might want to try some bolts to see
@@desobrien3827 nickel is pretty damn resistant. Only way I see it taking that off is like how hard chrome comes off - the base steel has oxidized enough that when the rust is attacked, the plating no longer has anything to hold on to.
Mk 1 Bren Gun magazine.
My thought exactly
Me too...
The first thing that popped into my head when I saw it was "Bren mag", before he even asked if we knew what gun it came from.
Wow! I know nothing of guns, really, but I like history and as part of that, view a lot of photos. I am the same with model airplane and aircraft recognition. When he dropped this magazine in the solution I found myself thinking “Bran”. The mind is an amazing thing!
I will be giving this a try! I've had five gallons of Evaporust soaking in the fuel tank of a 1952 Dodge M37 I've been restoring, which had old fuel sitting in it for over 25 years in the garage after my father parked it in 1997 and only tinkered on it a few times before burying it under junk and forgetting about it. The tank had a disgusting amount of scale within that vinegar and marbles didn't want to touch. The Evaporust indeed worked at first however I noticed it rapidly stopped working and there's still far too much rust in the tank for me to feel its satisfactorily clean. I was planning on finishing with a lot of vinegar rinses- but your formula here seems to be a much better solution. I was planning on using more Evaporust in the water jacket of the engine as well- but if this stuff works in the tank, I'll give it a whirl there too.
I am also wanting to try this out on the water jacket of an engine, and see how it goes. I was going to use Oxalic Acid, or Evaporust, but now I am keen to try this formula
You might think about using electrolysis...I did this with great success on a large motorcycle tank. Used an iron pipe as the electrode with tape on it to prevent it shorting out (put it in the sender hole). Had to grind the rust off the pipe every night, and it took like a week...but it was basically free and did an excellent job.
@@scottclark7559 this is a monstrous 24 gallon tank. I did a Volvo engine block in a poly 55 gallon drum before and I agree- it works. This tank is impractically large for something like that
Booze Rooster, if you do try it, please post on your original comment what your results are. 👍
@Booze_Rooster The MC tank was from a Goldwing...10 gallons maybe? I just filled the tank with water and hooked one end of the battery charger to the tank, and put an iron pipe down the sender hole for the other electrode. I would think if would work fine with a bigger tank, but would probably take longer. The sender hole is probably a lot bigger though, so you could probably also drop a much bigger pipe inside.
I don't even restore guns (I'd like to, but literally I wouldn't know where to start), but I watch every video you make and your advice is precious for other hobbies as well! This formula makes no exception!
E il fatto che tu sia italiano rende tutto ancora più bello 😁
I started about 4 years ago working on shotguns and cheap iver johnson revolvers. I'm in the US so it may be different for you. But just jump into it with a cheapish, non collectable firearm as practice.
Green tea extract might be a decent choice for a safe corrosion inhibitor. It contains catecholins, which can create a single molecule protective layer on bare metal, but actually helps to solubilise oxides. It’s used in chemical-mechanical polishing solutions. Works at very low concentrations, so two or three tea bags worth per litre should be sufficient.
Also, you could try adding a little more sodium salt to the mixture, so you end up with a higher pH. It’s still a very effective chelator and I bet just nudging the pH up to 5.5 or so (10-15% extra sodium carbonate) would put it at the same corrosion level as Evaporust.
Multipurpose tea usage: Britishness confirmed.
If I'm reading this right, just throw some regular green tea bags into the mixture and let them steep and then...good to go? (sorry, I'm tea ignorant)
@@PaulHanak Honestly, not entirely sure. Industrial solutions use an extract which is purified to contain just the helpful compounds, but the other things in green tea, like tannins and other phytochemicals probably won’t cause issues in this application so yeah, definitely worth a go just trying it the way you said.
@@PaulHanak the more important question is whether to use Typhoo or PG Tips.
@@simontillson482 I have a litre batch of the recommended solution on the bench. I will split it and add 2x teabags to one half and use the other as a control. We will see if they can be differentiated.
This guy is what CZcams is meant to be - honest simple straight to the point and consise with confirmed results at the end - you earned a sub here 👍simply brilliant 😄🇦🇺
Excellent video!! Super!! I am so impressed. I am a chemist by the way. Did you test your solution with dish soap against a formulation without dish soap? You use the dish soap as a surfactant. A more effective and common surfactant is the liquid fabric softener that you use in the laundry. The next time you do your laundry, and there are bubbles all around, throw in a capful of liquid fabric softener. The bubbles will disappear because they need surface tension to form. I do agree that a surfactant is helpful in your formulation. From Wiki: "Rinse-cycle softeners usually contain cationic surfactants of the quaternary ammonium type as the main active ingredient." Keep making these great videos.
that's absolutely fascinating. What are your thoughts on adding a small amount of TSP?
TSP?
@@shanonallen5395 trisodium phosphate, I think
How about the surfactant used in dishwashers?
Great video, I made up the solution as detailed using washing soda but I used an old bottle of Kodak Photo-Flo 200 which I had lying around from B&W film processing days as a surfactant. Photo-Flo is "...a wetting agent used to minimize water marks or streaks during film development. It is used after the final wash when processing films to decrease the water-surface tension and promote faster, more uniform drying." Does not contain perfumes or colorants like fabric softener or dish soap.
Worked really well!
Really impressiv, Gunsmithing feels like chemistery sometimes !
Tried your recipe a week or so ago - for the first time... Then made 3 25 litre buckets of solution up, it's been a brilliant means of restoring tools that have built up rust over the years... Thank you for putting this out there.
Sharing this with my FB smithing group...like several other vids lol!
Thanks for your time!
Thank you for watching!
Adding the base to water first then acid is much safer and doesn't bubble, just tested it as it is the common way to mix acid.
For me mixing the base last, it started smoking while bubbling and it really stings to breathe in 😅
The other way around there wasn't any bubbling or smoke.
And to prolong the mix, clean the parts in straight lye and soap first. If there is any oil on it this removes the most of it
My chemistry teacher always said, "do it like you oughter; add the acid to the water" so we'd remember. 50 years later, I still do.
Right, I make soap like you said, first adding lye to water, than add lye water to liquid oils and in the end adding other ingredients like citric acid.
Citric acid is a much weaker acid than hydrochloric or sulfuric where you need to worry about that. It is safe as he described.
If you used washing soda or baking soda and didn't get bubbles regardless of mixing order, there is something wrong. Bubbles here are carbon dioxide from the base, rather than boiling water from heat from diluting strong acid.
Man this is FASCINATING. I've been avoiding buying a new bottle of evaporust because it's expensive. I already have citric acid and washing soda at home, so now I'm good to go! Thank you so much! I'm pretty excited because I have a pile of old tools in need of restoration.
I've made a batch this afternoon and tested it on an imposibly rusted peice of 3mm x 25mm angle iron.
It took 2 hours, but it dissolved all the rust.
EXCELLENT STUFF!😁
This is an extremely magnanimous action on your behalf!!!! Corporations/governments want to ring everlast cent from us, and you're doing this out of decency, and kindness! May our Creator bless you!
We need a paper written right now! This is such an amazing discovery for all diy rust removal
I know this comment is likely too late to ever be seen, but ive taken your recipe and did some experimenting in an ultrasonic cleaner, at 50c the solution appears to be the most effective (tested from room temperature to boiling), ive been running the ultrasonic cleaner for 30min with out prepping the metal at all and it does a wonderful job, it allows the solution to penetrate threads and removes scale in places you cant access with other equipment. i submerged a cast aluminium water pump with metal bolts entirely seized and full of corrosion, after the treatment it spun freely, removed all corrosion and all bolts were removed with ease. thankyou.
That's epic brother. I might try that. Got a large Headboard mesh for my hilux ute tray and it is absolutely Rusted to death.
Can we have a shootout for the subtitles Carlo has made? They make a difference over here, so thanks for the extra effort.
This was a fantastic find! I work with model trains, and for the pre-WWII trains, there is frequent discussion on how to safely and efficiently remove rust. I am sharing this with my friends.
Always do a test sample - there may be alloys this recipe might be too agrressive with.
You, sir, are an official MVP for all Men of the world who work with tools/DIY/Automotive/workshop/metalwork. Thank you for your service My good man...
Hat off tou you. Also for not 'milking' the subect, but rather trying to squeeze as much info as possible on this one video!
Big THANKS!! I'm doing a full restoration on a 2007 Volvo XC70 I bought as a project. Your video has been a life saver! I paid in Canada about $14 for 2lb of citric acid anhydride. I saw the tip of the green tea as inhibitor. I plan to spray with brake cleaner and prime/paint right after.
As an engineer I loved your DOE and how you actually made a scientific approach with similar samples, baseline etc. I give you A++
Wonderful video, thank you. I have used citric acid for years as a rust/corrosion remover. I discovered that it worked better with a little Dawn dish soap added. I used baking soda to neutralize the acid on the finished product. I NEVER would have intentionally mixed the three together and expected a BETTER product.
Thanks for the great vid and all your hard work!
Note: pH 1 to 4 is 1000x less acidic;
Logarithmic means 10x per unit, so 3 units is 10^3 = 1000
Bonus tip: 0.3 units is double (roughly)
Geeky note: this is for the 'natural logarithm', ie, 10; youbcan have any number
Cheers
Edit: log bases are evil,
Base answer exponent
ie,
Log (10) 1000 = 3
Equivalent to
10^3=1000
Well, mostly right. Except there are two log scales that are used frequently, Base 10 logs and natural logs (Base e). e is an irrational number like pi and is approximately 2.71828. The pH scale uses the base 10 log scale where the pH value (ph 4, for example) means the concentration of acid is 1.0 x 10^(-4) = 0.0001 moles/L. "pH" comes from the German language form of negative log.
@steveh8724 yup you're right about natural logs, and natural logarithm is "ln" (pronounced 'lawn')
Didn't know about the German origins of pH tho! Thanks 😺
I've been following your channel for a long time, in terms of theory and practice in restoring weapons to their original condition, i.e. without fakes, in my opinion the best here!!!!
I had already assumed that you worked professionally in the chemical industry.
Big praise for your work and sharing your knowledge, keep it up 👍🏼
Best regards, The Electroplater 😉
This was well, well worth the wait.
As a non-chemist, I tried to recreate Evaporust, and failed.
You're awesome for making this video and the clear presentation of the content.
Thank you!
so happy to see this today. I'm retired, and have a small hobby shop. I like to repurpose found steel, but cannot afford to buy 5 gallon buckets of EvapoRust. This is a perfect solution, and with materials that I already have on hand. I always have citric acid and washing soda on hand, I can't wait to try this.
This is a fantastic solution you've found. There's a lot of "real life needs" here too. In most cases whether firearms, tools, or just rusty machine parts what we need is ALL the rust GONE in one application and it's perfectly acceptable for the base metal to be attacked as long as it's only a tiny amount. Also the job needs to be done in a couple hours or less. This ticks the boxes. I've got a rusty bandsaw that needs to be restored and this may just do it. I can actually afford to mix up several gallons of this unlike buying a 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust that would cost me half what replacing the band saw would cost defeating the entire purpose of cleaning it up.
This is an amazing video! Thank you for continuing to help gunsmiths around the world with your unbiased testing and dedication to the community! I've learned so much from watching your channel... Thank you so much!
Finally, an excellent video on making your own rust remover that works. Thanks a million!!! Excellent video on all counts! I should also add: For years I have been making my own Washing Soda as I need it for electrolysis when I cook metal to remove rust - but I'm liking this video's solution better! To make your own washing soda, take baking soda and pour on any cookie tin/sheet and place in a 400 deg F preheated oven for 1 hour 10 min, occasionally mixing it every 20 mins or so. That's it! Once I went to the store to buy washing soda and they were out. Ever since, I just make my own. I buy 50lb bags of food grade baking soda for around $70 Canadian. Hope that helps. This also means that the washing soda will always be fresh and at full strength.
Could your solution be turned into a gel? That would be super useful for large parts. Great video thank you.
I'm curious too, maybe xanthan gum, cornstarch, or guar gum would work.
A little googling indicates xanthan can handle acid solutions, for what that's worth
This is genius. Your planning and execution of these tests was near flawless. You even provide precise instructions for how to replicate your results. This is the internet at its very best.
The internet delivers! A smart guy on youtube tells me how to make my life better, and it doesn't involve me stopping eating icecream!
Many thanks for your efforts, and everything that went into sharing this!
This is historical. The amount of people who have been needing and searching for a solution is unmeasurable. You have made a massive leap in all things metal restoration. Also is that a Bren magazine?
Please do the inhibitor tests, that video will be the holy grail of all rust removal videos for the rest of time if it's of the same quality as this one, and I have no doubt.
In my experience, using an ultrasonic to loosen pitting corrosion will make the evaporust work beter, but I might try your solution as well. Thanks for posting this.
I can confirm this works perfectly! I watched this video 2 days ago, immediately ordered the citric acid online and went to a local store for the sodium carbonate and then the citric acid came in today I tried it out.
I live in the NL and paid 17 euros for 2kg of citric acid and 95 cents for a kilo of sodium carbonate. I made a test batch with 500ml of water and dunked a cut off piece of angle iron in it that was rusty AF from being outside for at least a year. It removed/converted all the rust in maybe 4 hours time.
Going to make a roughly 20 liter batch now so that I can remove the rust from inside a motorcycle tank.
Please tell me you meant 2 kg of citric acid... 😮
@@rupertthomson Hahaha, woops, yeah, 2kg - backspaced a little to hard there :D I'll update my comment, thanks for pointing out my mistake!
@@pyramidsinegypt I'm glad it worked for you, my attempt failed miserably. I'll give it one more try...
@@rupertthomson For what it's worth: I measured 500ml of regular tapwater, added to that 50 grams of citric acid powder and stirred until it was all disolved. I then added 30 grams of the sodium carbonate (which in my case came in the form of 'silver soda'. The fizzing was immediate and lasted for around 10 seconds. I stirred it all again so that no solids were visible in the water. There will be some bubbles in the water but it'll be an all clear liquid.
Do you want to share what happened during your first attempt?
@@pyramidsinegypt You know, I was wrong! It did work, I just didn't see it properly because I was lazy and just looking through the solution. When I took it out, it had indeed taken a lot of the rust off. I have just given the item a scrub and put it back in for another overnight soak.
The item is a small steel wedge I found on an abandoned railway, it was covered in hard red rust, almost like it had been wrapped in sandpaper. It is mostly grey coloured now.
I will try with some rusty bolts tomorrow.
As for the mixing process, I mixed up the recipe for 1 litre of tap water (very soft here, not much in the way of dissolved minerals) using 100 g Citric acid and 63 g bicarbonate of soda, poured the water in and got the big fizzy reaction you described. When the fizzing stopped I mixed in a small squirt of fairy liquid (dishwashing liquid) as in the video. I added maybe 3 ml of it.
The biggest lesson I have taken from this experiment is to properly examine the work rather than relying on a glancing look! Ha ha!
THANK YOU. I cannot stress enough my gratitude for this useful information you have presented. I have always been skeptical and hesitant to use most of the commercial rust removers. It struck me that for them to as affective as described, they also had to be damaging the base metal. Commenting on your channel, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. You come across as sincere with all your presentations, they are clear, derailed, and easy to follow. I have learnt a lot from your videos. Keep up the good work.
*detailed, not derailed. Sorry.
Effing brilliant, Mate. This is important information for any field that confronts metal exposed to the elements. Combine this with rust proofing techniques and you can preserve components indefinitely.
Fantastic! Bravo on figuring out your recipe and well done for the unbiased thorough testing. This is a great resource for many, thank you!
This is great! Definitely saving this video for future reference. One further thing of interst is how does your solution perform in mixed metal and painted situations - where perhaps something like Aluminum or brass is mixed in mechanically with the base item to have rust removal done. Evaporust performs adequacy most of the time in these circumstances.
This is incredible. Absolute game changer for me. Thank you for this wonderful contribution.
Simply stunning. I was skeptical and expected nothing when I tested this. I was happily surprised. I like working on old cars and old shop equipment - both breeding farms for rust. I tested one piece for which I had a virtual twin in the same rusty state as a control. Amazing! I cannot say thank you enough. This will save a ton of work and a ton of unnecessary grinding - wire brushing. Thank you sir!
Thanks! This is a lifesaver. I'd love to see it as a gel application for very large parts. and if it's safe on chrome parts
Wallpaper paste is the solution. It will gel it up quickly.
@Travellerwiz Anwered the question which just popped into my head...how to make it into a gel! Thank you.
I'd love to see a test with the solution gelled up.
i went into this a total skeptic.
im a huge fan of evap-o-rust but annoyed at its cost.
im also a hobbiest machinist and enjoy restoring tools and machines so metal loss is a big fear of mine.
well sir, im impressed!!
THANK YOU for sharing this.
subscribed!
Love the formula idea. I was interested in chatgpts opinion and possible improvements and it suggested
For 1 liter of water:
100g Citric Acid
40g Sodium Carbonate (or 63g Baking Soda or 30g Caustic Soda)
10g to 20g EDTA
1g to 2g Sodium Nitrite
Dish Soap (a few drops)
EDTA chelating agent for improved removing and sodium nitrite for rust inhibitor
Okay, just looked up sodium nitrite and that's maybe not a nice chemical to use hehe
I almost never comment. Now I do. I can confirm the method works! My case the most surprising fact was that it requires no effort. Bury the stuff in it, sprinkle the acid solution. Literally works in any combination.
Damn. Probably one of the MOST informative videos I have seen on YT.
Thank you Sir! Subscribed!!!
You are the no 1 on you tube in restoring and information sharing. Thank you.
For a surfactant use jet-dry or dishwasher rinse-aid
Update your comment after you try it. I’m curious. I get myself in trouble sometimes with science experiments.😬
Thank you, my friend! I am a coin collector and I have just mixed up a batch of your juice to see if it would shift green verdigris from old bronze coins. It works very, very well! I tried it on some scrap coins ranging from modern to Roman times. It is very good for bronze and zinc coins, but you should be careful not to leave bronze in the solution for too long. It cleans brass too but it lightens the colour of the metal almost immediately, which is not ideal.
I will do more careful experiments before using this on good coins, but it is going to be a very useful technique for my coin preservation activities.
Evap-O-Rust Recipe
Water 55-65%
triethanolamine phosphate 20-30%
Aluminum Sulphate 1-5%
Citric Acid 1-5%
Dipropylene Glycol Methyl Ether 1-5%
Nice… what’s your Source?
@@HermitFab evaporust MSDS maybe? not sure
@@HermitFab Much information can be gathered from the Safety Data Sheets, there are several for Evapo-rust (country specific I think) and some contain more information then others.
The German SDS has the ingredients listed and a percentage range for each ( not specific percentage) This is because, unlike USA, Australian and other HSE law the manufacturer cannot make vague claims as to the ingredients, even when the chemical is deemed to be safe.
So Evaporust is a mild acid. When in the video citric acid is mixed with washing soda, the bubbles tell that washing soda is neutralizing citric acid and make a gaz in the process. It still act faster as it's more acidic than evaporust. But if you want a less acidic solution, the best is still to put less citric acid (and you save some money not using washing soda).
The second ingredient in evaporust is a corrosion inhibitor. If you want 5% citric acid like in evaporust, simply use 50g of citric acid per liter (that's the beauty of the metric system).
Absolutely EXCELLENT information conducted extremely professionally! My only suggestion for improvement is when pouring the 20 liter container, turn around so the opening is at the top. That way, as you pour, it will flow out without sloshing which is a much better technique to pour liquid from a container. I mean no disrespect, only pointing it out so as to show a better technique.
You're killing it, as usual.
I've tested for many days having a socket in 30% solid citric acid and 2% salt it was HEAVILY rusted and took about one day to get rust free.
I then left it around 3 weeks without any damage on the remaining steel.
Citric acid is really cheap, i bought it from a farmers market for about 40 USD for a 25 KG bag, if buying in regular store it costs over 150 USD KG!
Will try your blend
Well done! Too bad you can't patent it. I'm glad it will help you and other gunsmiths.
Turns out somebody already did back in 1995! After my "discovery" I researched the matter more in-depth and found a patent saying basically the same things that I'd found out
@@beyond.ballistics Yeah, there are so many humans now, it's easy to find 2 or more people having the same idea at the same time or finding someone beat you to it. I'm glad you still did your experiments and found a cheap rust remover for gunsmiths and maybe mechanics.
Automaticly if you have a video on the internet or any text describing the mix the no one can patent it later anyway 😉
You have to start the patent application before uploading the mix on internet (at least by my local laws for patents) i know this since i was about to apply for patent for a tool i made but it would cost at least 1000usd and it was not far from some other known tool so i didn't bother.
It was a linked sliding hammer tool specifically for automotive oxygen sensor since on my old Audi RS4 B7 to change the wideband one everyone and the OEM manual says to drop the gearbox or whole engine and that is a 24H job, making the tool and replacing all 4 was 1.5 hours 😅😁
wait you have an audi? drop the money for the patent 😂
@@beyond.ballistics so it has expired (patents last for 20y)
Very nicely done!
Wow, I would have never thought to see you here! Thank you for taking the time!
Kudos for your commitment and to your own time spent on researching something that will work for many of us. This is truly amazing and this is why I always go to your channel for actual information provided in a clear way. You had my curiosity, now you have my attention!
Thanks a lot for your scientifically well -based presentation. I am a chemical engineer with 40 years spent in the oil industry where I could gather all kind of experience from very widely separated areas. You are great.
You say the only advantage of Evaporust is the lack of hydrogen evolution. In fact this is a highly significant difference. Hydrogen embrittles alloy steels which is an issue where springs or high strength steels are used, for instance in automotive applications. Mild steel is not embrittled so bracketry, sheet casings etc are unaffected. But you would definitely be ill advised to use an acidic solution for cleaning stressed parts made from high carbon steels. In industry acid pickling is followed by baking at high temperature to diffuse out the hydrogen but it is much better not to introduce hydrogen because not all can be removed this way. It disrupts the crystal lattice forming weak points and being a small molecule it can relatively easily diffuse into the crystal lattice.
That's definitely still an advantage, but the thing is if you're refinishing after de-rusting, you most likely will need to evolve at least a bit of hydrogen on the surface. That is true for phosphating primers, parkerizing, electroplating, and the pre-bluing etching. In all these cases the hydrogen coming from the citrate composition will be small compared to the finishing one. I'd still be careful with long soak times on high strength steel kept under load, like a loaded leaf spring.
Been using citric acid for years on rusted parts, saw it long ago on some forum. My mix is 0.5kg on 10 liters, it acts slowly and leaves a black hard residue that goes of with a light pass of a steel brush. Did gastanks, brake calipers, suspension bits etc. Will definitly try this, seems better in every way!
I have both Bren and Sten magazines like yours although in better condition. For the anecdote I have found them with a German bayonet some gun powder and plenty of bullets in a wooden box hidden in a barn own by my family. This barn was used as a shelter by the french resistance during the war. Finding this box was like opening a time capsule, such an amazing feeling!
I bet it was!
Great handling of this topic. Really like you you get the point across so clearly and quickly. My career has been for decades, getting boilers clean on their initial as built condition. All boilers are welded together from rusty iron and steel, but the interior needs to be rust and corrosion free to be useful to run. Not surprisingly, with the volumes of systems like this, 75,000 to 100,000 gallons, cost is an imperative part of the decision.
For reference and to search the correct terms, try "commercial Citric boiler cleaning"
We start with the degreaser hot for a few hours, then ADD the citric acid directly to the solution, with the inhibitor. A few hours watching the Iron content looking for it to go steady, then add the carbonate to the same solution. We dont use caustice usually because locally near the addition point, iron can fall out of solution and foul the system. Then we cool somewhat and add in Sodium Nitrite to passivate. (Nitrite not Nitrate).
Works a treat... there is also a more expensive but more selective process that uses EDTA. Also something to look up.
THIS HAS TO BE THE BEST VIDEO ON RUST REMOVAL I HAVE EVER SEEN. I HAVE BEEN USING HOME MADE SOLUTIONS FOR AT LEAST 50 YEARS. YOUR WORK ON A KILLER FORMULA WITH AN EMPHASIS ON LOW COST IS THE BEST SO FAR. I HOPE THAT I CAN ADD TO YOUR PROGRESS IF I CAN. I TIP MY HAT OFF TO YOU SIR. JOB WELL DONE. PEACE TO YOU TOO, V
WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?
@@unclefista MUCH EASIER TO SEE LARGE TEXT THAT IS ALL. I AM NOT SHOUTING EVEN THOUGHT THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE SAYS I AM. CAN YOU FIND IT IN YOUR HEART TO FORGIVE ME ?? THANKS V
What a brilliant video. I am 100% going to use this to restore my old power hacksaw
Trilon-b costs a penny, removes all rust without touching the metal. BUT, if you leave it in water for a long time, new rust will form from the oxygen in the water and the water (in the water), and it will also dissolve it, so you need to pay attention to the details. It costs a penny, a 25 kg bag costs a hundred bucks or something like that.
the actual weight of the rust that dissolves is almost equal to its own weight; for 100g of rust you need 100 grams of Trilon-b
I've seen people on forums suggesting adding urotropine to trilon-b solution for this exact purpose - corrosion inhibition. But I don't remember the exact concentrations
@@TRiToN219 Pure Trilon-b dissolves rust very quickly and absolutely.
ElementalMaker did some testing on an EvapoRust alternative and he settled on tetrasodium EDTA and citric acid. Na4EDTA is the same active ingredient for Trilon-B
@@MechTechMax EvapoRust IS EDTA, check datasheets. EDTA, Weight + 10% solution for 18-20C temp, cleaned old rusted horseshoe in about 10 hours to white metal without scrubbing.
Very good, as advertised and no clickbait.
I absolutely *LOVE* this channel. It's generally entertaining and informative. My only issue is that you don't post daily 😉 😂
I wish I could...
@@beyond.ballistics Us too brother. Just know we'll be here patiently waiting for your next upload.
Thanks for sharing your fantastic formula. I have seen a video with a guide made a homemade you wm evapurust very cheap, ph of 7 but took a lot longer to work. Tetrasodium EDTA 5mg per 100mls distilled water. Add a very little amount of citrus acid it to bring ph back down to 7. Tetrasodium EDTA is cheap in his country but not cheap in Australia. Cheers Graham
Incredible! Thank you so much for open-sourcing this!
Any time!
An epic discovery for many uses! Will be a game changer for rusted motorcycle gas tanks. I'm quite surprised at the quick degradation of the Evaporust, considering the cost.
Could be the citrate solution is more concentrated than the EDTA in Evaporust.
Have you tried making a more neutral solution? 30g of NaOH is basically only half the citric acid since citric acid has 3 acid groups so you need about triple the amount of NaOH to fully quench it.
You could add NaOh until the PH goes from 4 to 6 (basically you have quenched 2 of the 3 groups at that point), should take another 10g of base or so. You would still have a few free carboxyl groups on the citric acid left at that point but it would do far less damage since iron can passivate against the acid at that point, so you could end up with something that only dissolves rust but the iron is relatively immune.
Really, really hard to post thanks to youtube now. if the text reads weird I had to remove some words.
Yeah, YT's AI removes comments with many math formulas, symbols, odd syntax characters, as well as the names of some political parties, and references to any other smedia company.
It doesn't matter how many acid groups it has but what is an equation for the complete reaction calculated using atomic / particle mass. Then you have to take into consideration that those compounds are not chemically 100% grade and/or contain moisture. Best bet would be to do the theoretical reaction calculation and simply give a bit more of the soda compound just to be sure all citric acid reacted. And then the final sodium citrate has also so ions going on in the water solution so that itself is determining the PH. He could cheat a little making it a bit more diluted.. like erm 3 times, based on his experiment and then really we could tell which solution is doing more damage to the bare metal, that would really be more like an apple to apple comparison.
Anyway the experiment is excellent besides this minor flaw and it looks like such a simple way to get unexpectedly awesome results and all that done in a shed not a lab 😅
@@DamianB82 It does matter how many groups it has. Believe me 1mol of citric acid needs 3 mol of NaOH to bind all acid groups on the citric acid - I have done this before. 40g of NaOH is 1mol, 100g citric acid is about 0,5mol, therefore you have reacted a bit more than half with the 30g or what it was, also the pH still being 4 is a pretty good sign there is still a lot of acid left. Due to the multiple carboxyl groups, each having their own ph at 3,4 and 6 if the pH is still 4 all of the strongest groups are filled but over all there are still some open, if the pH drops to 6 all pH4 groups are sated.
EDIT: Oh and wiith the strong base NaOH you can't go fully neutral, it will always remain slightly acidic, with the weak bases you can (sodium carbonates). You can google "weak acid strong base titration" or "titration curve citric acid naoh" - it has been 20years since I've done this in the lab so I am not 100% on the details anymore to be honest but you could definately get a more neutral solution .
@@Snarlacc Ok, well I guess i didn't understand really what you had in mind with the 3 acid groups, thought you were to say that since that you need ratio of 3:1 by weight, which is not the case and while the neutral solution certainly need 3 parts of NaOH for one part of C₆H₈O₇, that doesn't mean you need 3 weight parts of caustic soda for 1 weight of citric acid :D
It's 20 years since I've been doing those kind of calculations but I believe it should look something like this:
C₆H₈O₇ + 3NaOH → Na₃C₆H₅O₇ + 3H₂O
C₆H₈O₇ = 6x12+8x1+16x7 = 72+8+184 = 264
3NaOH = 3x(23+16+1) = 3x40 = 120
So basically the ratio for fully neutral reaction should be 264/120 = 2.2
So if he used 100g of citric acid (assuming anhydrous citric acid > 99) so to neutralize citric acid he should use ~45,45g of caustic soda (again assuming anhydrous >99%)
But I believe this is not the expected outcome, since for this to work out sodium citrate is working here as an inhibitor to prevent further metal oxidation from happening, while the rest of the acid is eating up iron oxide (rust) which is easier to react in this environment.
The real question is what is the optimal ratio for this, but knowing reaction of this whole process is beyond (rusted) knowledge, pun intended :).
@@DamianB82 Not neccessarily, like EDTA citrates are chelators, so this could work by skewing the dissolution konstant in the aqueous soloution by sequestering free iron ions to force more iron to dissolve and rust dissolves first. This does not depend on acidity, and it would take a lot more time like buffered EDTA solutions (in the hoours to days), but it would be a very soft process. That was my point, I have seen it doone with neutral EDTA on a rusty sword with a fine engraving, where it worked spectacularly, but the EDTA was also bedded in AGAR so it stays on instead of dipping the whole in aqueous solution because of the wood and brass on the hilt. Not depending on the acid but purely on its chelating properties. I have tried, abe even a totally neutralized solution will eat rust! - If very slow, but that also keeps the damage to a minimum.
You are dividng atomic weight that's not how acid-base reactions are calculated, it's mol per mol per group (although the final carboxyl group dooes not really like to dissociate and it might not be exactly 3:1), and you have miscalculated for citric it's 192g/mol. My book says it's three times the amount of single value base to a 3 value acid.
Car wash as a detergent instead of dish soap may improve results as car wash is PH neautral.
Well done, love your channel!
How do you dispose of this mix? Evoporust make a point of saying it can be poured down the drain safely, can this also be disposed of likewise?
Great video, thank you!
Citric acid is lemon juice and the soda's range from baking over washing to drain cleaner, so I dare to say it can be dumped in your household drain without worrying
@@erik_dk842 Thanks for the info, appreciated!
Amazing video! Thanks so much for not only showing me that it works, but for proving your mixture’s longevity, as well as its pros and cons!
At my place of work, we use EDTA solutions of strengths 3-20% as a chemical cleaning agent for calcium based scale. The chemical works well, but the chemical is extremely expensive.
I have been planning on neutralized citric acid/ sodium citrate as a cheaper alternative. Funny to see that we had a similar idea here.