Super Simple Evaporust Clone for Pennies! - ElementalMaker
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2021
- RECIPE BELOW: I developed a pretty darn good DIY knockoff version of Evaporust that costs about 75 cents a gallon to make. We also test it against real evaporust, white vinegar, and citric acid
Link for Tetrasodium EDTA: amzn.to/3kKsYD0
Link for Citric Acid: amzn.to/3bheDec
Link for Evaporust: amzn.to/3ad8nSP
My Favorite Ph Paper: amzn.to/3sWTU5j
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Recipe: The best results I found were 100mL purified water, 5g Tetrasodium EDTA, enough citric acid to buffer to 6.5 Ph, and a few drops of dishwashing liquid (any good surfactant should work)
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Sponsored by YOU! No seriously I couldn't do this without your support, so a big thanks to my patrons at www.patreon.com/elementalmaker. Please consider throwing a dime at this homeless guy you call ElementalMaker. Hes' homeless because he lives in his workshop. Not really. But Maybe.
Are you actually autistic? Me too.
thiourea and sulfamic acid? Two good suspects for the Evaporust secret recipe.
Edit: /salute from another 'technically homeless' guy living at work. This economy sucks.
Youre not homeless! Homeless guys have nasty beards, youre just a pair of Adam's Family extra's & a disembodied voice - your "home" could just be a pair of gloves! 😉
can make a vid on brewing and distilling alcohol?
You remind me of mr wizard from the late 70s- late 80s
The big advantage of Evaporust is you can flood the surface using an aquarium pump. Run that overnight and rust is gone.
That's a great tip! Never thought to do that
and it's reusable. filter out particles and put back in to a clean container. keep used Evaporust separate from new Evap'st.
I found some patents for rust removers that use sodium EDTA and thiourea dioxide. Thiourea dioxide is a relatively stable reducing agent that (apparently) assists in converting rust to a more-soluble form. As can be deduced from its name, it contains sulfur. A paper by some Japanese researchers indicated that the best rust removal is obtained when the solution pH is close to neutral. Thiourea dioxide is used in the textile industry so should be readily available. An alternative to it might be sodium bisulfite. This also according to the Japanese research.
I tried this method to de-rust the rear end of my car in a large tub (didn't want to buy $600 worth of evaporust). What I found was that after soaking for a day, there was no visible difference--but I did notice I could more easily scratch rust off with my fingernail. So I decided to try taking it out and power washing it. Except for the very heaviest rust spots, the rust just washed away like dirt! It was miraculous! Hope that helps someone. Many thanks to ElementalMaker.
Thanks for posting !
Could you share the recipe on that large concoction?
I de rusted body panels on my car by using Hydrochloric Acid, and ordinary sand (as the scrubber). Wearing safety gloves, I soaked a rag with hydrochloric acid, then dipped this in dry sand, and started to scrub away. This really worked for me, and then I rinsed with plain water, because the rusting is immediate. Then treated the scrubbed surface with a Phosporic Acid. Washed this off the next day, and primed the bodywork with paint. Obviously, you must not breathe the Hydrochloric Acid Fumes, so please wear the appropriate Mask.
When I evaporust, I take the part out a few times a day and brush it.
That is what I used to do too. But, the evaporust seems to keep the part from rusting after rinsing a little better - especially things like gas tanks. Also, some items I use zinc-chromate primer, and that keeps the metal from rerusting. @@peterduxbury927
Seven dislikes are from evaporust's patent lawyers sweating nervously
It's at 14 dislikes now
When I reverse engineer, I go STREIGHT for the SDS or MSDS! sometimes one gets lucky
@@davefellhoelter1343 No help in this case, unless you can tell me what "Trade Secret" is.
@@1978garfield I can't get my hands on any Evaorust to read the Haz or Active ingredients, but "I Have" OJT for Passivation in pharma, aero, electronics, and industrial. short of this my "go to" is Citric acid(vitimin C) @ about 180f after cleaning solvent of TSP at same temp for iron oxide rust removal.
@@davefellhoelter1343 vitamin C is ascorbic acid
I've never tried Evaporust myself, but I love trying to solve puzzle videos like this.
My quick analysis is that the green color is an important clue. It's showing that there is iron in solution, but it's starved for oxygen. You can test this by taking some of the green liquid and putting a little hydrogen peroxide in it, and seeing if it flashes to brown. If it does, but then turns green again, then there is another layer of buffering. To make your version better (I know it's already cheap as is, but better is better), it needs something to deplete the oxygen in the partially-used solution. The green iron oxidation state means it is ready to steal oxygen from rust, but the new fluid is supposedly clear to yellowish, so it must start with a first layer of oxygen remover to preserve it until initial uses, and to verify its freshness upon receipt. Based on the assumption that one of the ingredients is ferrous hydroxide, which is clear, but turns green when contaminated by oxygen, but you're assuming it contains soap, and watching a video of new liquid being poured... I suspect that one of the pH/oxygen buffers is glycerine.
You stated that it smelled a little like burned sugar too, and the MSDS says it's pretty much harmless to everything.
I therefore suspect that the ingredients include ferrous hydroxide, from ferrous sulfate and sodium hydroxide, and glycerine, which may smell sweet in a chemical reaction, but will form a useful soap with the excess hydroxide, while helping to buffer the pH, along with something like citric acid to get the pH down enough without using an excess of glycerine.
Wow. Look at that. Lots of useful information here. Anyone try this? I need a lot for a gas tank.
methanesulfonic acid
Chelating agents like phosphonates (>5%), possibly NTMP, EDTMP and DTPMP, are mentioned in their compound list.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 That makes sense. It would occupy dissolved rust and keep it from doing much chemically. Those kind of things would be behind making the solution last over multiple uses.
Hey Buck, have a look at what I have just posted and let us know what you think. I found and downloaded a US Military spec. "Corrosion Removing Compound, Sodium Hydroxide Base;
For Electrolytic Or Immersion Application" They state also "without causing material change in the dimensional characteristics of the treated article." Hydroxide conc. is pretty low.
Wait, this isn’t ProjectFarm! :)
Hahaha I was thinking the se thing!!!
NO thank god!!!! lol i love that channel but the speaking or lines or whatever u call the style he delivers he lines is soo distracting n hard to listen to, it would absolutely b one of my favorite channels if it wasnt for that, i guess it just seems kinda lazy with just reading off cards with no context its messes up the flow of the video n again is distracting. hell have cards or points written on stuff he wants to cover in the video but he reads them verbatim, like "evaporust is a great product. i use evaporust any chance i get. Evaporust wont damage the metal. Evaporust also hurt your skin and evaporust is non toxic" after a few times u can just say it!!!! lol that drives me so crazy i cant even watch the videos lol i write and its just lazy writing, u need to combine your thoughts at the end and let them flow without repetition or youll bore the reader
This is FrojectParm
I wasn't the only on thinking it, lol! I don't know what it is about that thumbnail/title combo that makes it look so ProjectFarm.
Evaporust at my local Advance Auto Parts is about $28 a gallon.
If you have any EDTA left over after you are done, remember to keep it handy in case of vampire attack. It explodes on contact with vampire blood. (source: "Blade" 1998)
The *EXACT* moment he said EDTA, I immediately thought of Wesley Snipes saying that 😄
Here's two chelants with sulfur atoms (softer electron density): dimercaprol, and succimer.
Dimercaprol and succimer both smell terrible. They might work, but your family might not be thrilled with you when you are using it.
In Australia evaporust is $100 per gallon so this helps me a lot 😁
@@AEON. - only the fancy beers... Just bought a 5 litre container for $A70, on special. $A425 for a 5kilo concentrated form that makes 30 litres (about 7.5 US gallons). Since Tetrasodium EDTA is about $25/kg, this is so much cheaper. Now to buy a small plunge pool and a crane...
Dear god, that's insane! I see a business opportunity. Start getting people to carry a couple liters in their checked luggage when they go to visit and we've got ourselves a nice little racket! Is that $100 in Australian monopoly money or American dollars?
Yeah $100 fuck that Vinegar or citric acid is cheap
Same in Canada
*I use this in a large bath to repurpose large rusted parts (radiators, compressors, transmissions etc etc) and have found that agitation is key to reducing the times.* If I can I simply place large totes inside my work vehicles, and the vibrations do all the work. But if the parts are too big, then I use a solar bubbler to keep the fluid moving. A "wiffle ball" is great for tumbling around and knocking into objects gently enough to work times down significantly. I just finished a car radiator and a HVAC evaporator in 3 hours. Shine like they are brand new!
A small nitpick: Citric acid is not a "buffer" and you are not "buffering" the solution back to neutral. It is just an acid, and you are adjusting the pH back to a neutral value using an appropriate amount of the acid.
A buffer is actually something different. A buffer contains a balance of particular chemicals which work together in such a way that they _maintain and resist changes to_ a particular pH level _even when other acids or bases are added._ That is, buffers will not change their pH even if you add acids or bases to them (up to the limit of their buffering capacity).
None of the stuff you are using here is actually a pH buffer in the standard chemistry sense...
Great to know, I had no idea
Neat. Thank you
He's not "adjusting the pH". This is called neutralization reaction. He's neutralizing the solution, Mr chemist.
yep and NaHCO3 is good, cheap and available every where, it keep the PH at aprox 7.5-8
@@suprememasteroftheuniverse "Adjusting the pH to a neutral value" is _literally the definition_ of what "neutralizing" means (in this context). Just because you chose to use different terms which mean exactly the same thing does not make anything I said actually wrong.
@ElementalMaker: I used to work in a cheese factory where we used citric acid to remove rust stains from the concrete floors. We just sprinkled granulated citric acid on the stains and got them damp with a hose. After about 5 minutes we''d hose it off and the stains would wash away. I always wondered why it seemed to pull the rust out of the concrete. It being a chelating agent makes it obvious why. Thanks for this video.
For the last 50 years or so, I have been using a solution of approx. 15 to 1 water to molasses to remove rust ! It takes a while, (a week or two) but it is the least expensive and most effective and safest method I know of !
Interesting that EvapoRust smells sweet and you've found molasses capable of removing rust. Maybe adding a surfactant to your molasses solution would help speed it up a bit? I *think* (I could be wrong on this) that molasses also contains a bit of sulfur, too.
@@floorpizza8074Molasses create weak vinegar so nothing extra.
It destroys alloys and certain other metals.
I use molasses and then after washing, dip it in phosphoric acid to give a protective coating until ready to paint.
@@lazyj4732 what destroys?
@@otofoto Molasses
Apparently it contains water, a chelating agent, and a detergent.
The FAQ says that "once the chelating agent has removed the iron, a sulfur bearing organic molecule pulls the iron away from the chelator and forms a ferric sulfate complex which remains water soluble. This frees the chelating agent to remove more iron from rust."
So the chelating agent isn't the one that has the sulfur atom - it's probably the detergent.
A sulphur based surfactant then.
@@bitTorrenter SLSA maybe? first thing that comes to mind from when I made soap back in the day
Perhaps the chelating agents such as the phosphonates NTMP, EDTMP and DTPMP? It is mentioned in their compounds list.
sodium petroleum sulfonate
In New Zealand Evaporust is $85.00NZD for 5 liters, $54.00USD for 1.3 gallons. I found it very hard to find a company that sells EDTA to the public But I will keep trying because I am eager to try your solution (No pun intended). Thanks for the information.
Pure nature sells the Tetrasodium EDTA, price was reasonable & service was great :)
Always a good day when Elemental Maker uploads. Love the videos! I'm always checking the channel to see if I missed an upload
Now I can afford to soak engine blocks! Thanks!
Cook a cornstarch + vinegar goo then apply like paint
@@mamupelu565 this works?
@@Joe-bm4wx
Haven't found a english-speaking video but according to this one it works:
czcams.com/video/f2DUJl6cCqg/video.html
(he said that vinegar + salt in electrolysis is much better, but it has to be in a ventilated area and the object has to be submerged)
@@mamupelu565 yeah salt gives off chlorine gas under electrolysis
Ya but I don't want to be smelling vinegar for any amount of time but ya he said in the description about$0.75 a gallon you are going to pay that for distilled water so get a container big enough and should be good
So I have been obsessed with cloning evaporust for a while and this video pushed me to get started. I have been working and tweaking and finally came up with something that I think gets as close you can to the original formula while still being cheap and easy to get ingredients. Total cost is about $5.35/gal The rustlick has the benefit of also helping prevent flash rusting when you remove the parts from solution just like evaporust.
To make ~4L (approx 1 gal)
4L liters water (ideally distilled or R/O water)
200g EDTA 4NA
200ml Rustlick B (73011)
~30 ml sulfuric acid drain cleaner to buffer to approx 7pH
******* Use eye protection, gloves, all the usual gear when working with strong acids/bases********
Dissolve water and EDTA until completely dissolved then mix in the Rustlick B
Add the sulfuric acid slowly, I would suggest adding 15ml at first, take a pH reading and then add 5ml at time until you hit the mark.
You can use another acid to buffer such as citric acid but the sulfur is supposed to be beneficial.
if you are still interested:
the european SDS of evaporust lists "Diammonium
Phosphonatbuilder" and "Natriumpetroleumsulfonat" as the additional ingredients.
No clue if it's the same mixture as overseas tho.
See: kunden.tda.at/pumpkin/images/news/Sicherheitsdatenblatt_Evapo-Rust.pdf
Whats wrong with citric acid instead of sulfuric acid?
@@meocats it doesn't have sulfur.. The bond to iron must be better. But I'm no chemist
@@_mylastname "Sulfonat" sounds awfully like sulfur :)
@@ChriFux Translated from German to English it says: Composition / information on ingredients - Substances / mixtures: List of ingredients according to CLP (EC) Regulation No. 1272/2008 CAS component EC no: water 70-90%, diammonium phosphonate builder 2-12
%, Sodium Petroleum Sulfonate 3-10%
Diammonium phosphate is one of a series of water-soluble ammonium phosphate salts that can be produced when ammonia reacts with phosphoric acid.
Sodium Petroleum Sulphonate may be used at concentrations of 10% to 22% by weight in selected industrial and metalworking applications. Sodium sulfonates have had a long history of use in metalworking fluids. It function as emulsifiers and corrosion inhibitors.
I put evaporust in my 1931 model A , filled the cooling system and left it for days . Some say they drive it around with it in there . It definitely gets some crud out !
👍 Bloody expensive in UK mate. $20 for a litre. So thank you so much for making this Video. I'll never buy it again at this price.
Same in Germany. I'm making my own, too.
White Vinegar in an ultrasonic cleaner with the heat turned up and cooked for 45 minutes to an hour. Then let sit overnight and in the morning brush off the mucky stuff. Great results.
If evaporust finishes better maybe go with the diy mix for heavy intial removal and switch over for finishing. Then the evaporust lasts much longer.
I've used phosphoric acid as a rust removal agent for decades. There are certain grades of steel that it attacks, including most springs. The application where I liked it best was in restoring old motorcycle and classic car gas tanks. I also had no qualms about using it on cast iron. The big challenge is that finding a surfactant to improve the wetting of the solution is not easy; acid-stable candidates can be had in the industrial chemical market, but usually you have to buy them in unrealistic quantities. (I did that in the past, and ran out of what I had about a decade back.)
I recently started cast iron restoration, Great video!
Thank you!
We must consider the temperature in the evaluation. Vinegar can go from just sitting there like water to visible bubbling just by placing the container in the sun or other warming. Probably goes for the other rust removers as well. Also degreasing is so important, as the chems must reach the rust. And wire brushing away thick rust first saves time and the acid doesn't get used up as fast.
I was wondering the same thing about temperature. I had a piece of aluminum that I had broken a steel tap off in while trying to tap a thread. I had read that soaking it in a solution of alum would dissolve the broken tap. Nothing much seemed to happen until I heated the solution and then it worked amazingly quickly.
When I use Evaporust, I definitely heat the solution (not too hot to touch) first and will continue to reheat it often. There is a dramatic difference between room temp (70-75°F) and warm solution. Warm/hot solution works much faster. Of course, this is true for most chemical reactions.
Having a lot of chelating power in solution increases the effective solubility of Fe3+ ions. There is no oxidizer in solution, O2 will not be bubbling out, the oxygen in Fe2O3 (real rust is not exactly that, but that does not mater for this point) will go into solution as oxide ions (O with 2- charge) and that immediately rips off a proton from a water molecule, forming two hydroxide ions. So the solution will get more basic as you dissolve more rust. But due to the low amount of rust its probably not noticeable.
If you’ve got plenty of time (like a week or two) a basic molasses solution (around 9 parts water to 1 part molasses iirc) works great & is very gentle. Only problem is the smell, after a while it gets mouldy & doesn’t smell nice at all, but it works a treat.
I was thinking the same. I willing to bet evapo rust contains un-sulfured molasses.
Doesn't smell nice would be the understatement of the year :-)
@@richardwindsor60 you ain’t wrong… it molds up nicely. I wonder if citric acid and edta cures that problem.
@@TheVTRainMan i bought some cheaper version of EvapoRust & that grew mould on it as well. It didn’t stink like the molasses though.
But when you're done you can just pour it out on the ground like the coca cola that I use!
I used to work at Evaporust, and I can tell you that it is made simply of distilled unicorn tears.
In Australia they have to make the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) readily available to everyone. The MSDS for Evaporust indicates the active ingredient is Sodium Bi-Sulphate at 3% concentration (also known as Sodium Acid Sulphate or NaHSO4). NaHSO4 is commonly used as a pH decreaser for spas and dissolved in water would be an acidic solution, requiring buffering but perhaps Evaporust is just a mix of 3% Sodium Bi-Sulphate and a small amount of Tetra Sodium EDTA? May be worth another experiment?
Oops, I think the MSDS actually said Sodium Bisulphite (NaHSO3)
@@jimmylastname5321 How in the world is this off-topic?!? More info is good. Calm down and top trying to play gatekeeper.
According to the government, cola Coke is not chemical.
@@theaussienurseflipper.8113 Everything is made of chemicals. Coke is a food product and as such must have all the ingredients (ie. chemicals) listed on the label and in some countries it will also need an MSDS. The label indicates that Coke contains Food Acid 338 which is phosphoric acid, very definitely considered a "chemical" by the government. Phosphoric acid (and to some extent the dissolved carbon dioxide) is what gives Coke it's slightly prickly (ie. acidic) feel. Phosphoric acid is a key ingredient in a number of commercial rust converter solutions and this is why people will say that Coke can be used to remove rust but it isn't very effective because the concentration is low.
@@emilebarrett1167 it's on the label, I don't believe safety data sheet for coke.
This is pretty genius. And wow! The price difference is just mind blowing.!!
Here in Aus, a gallon (actually 5 litres) costs at least $60, and most places are asking $90, so it is expensive here. I had a look at the MSDS for evaporust, and it appears to be 15-20% sodium bisulfate (metabisulfate in solution), 80% water and a small amount of a surfactant. A DIY version would be 150-200g sodium metabisulfate, 800ml water and a couple of drops of dish soap.
Did your MSDS also said something about diammonium phosphonate?
Apparently sodium bisulfate is a strong acid used as a buffering agent. If you don't have a alkaline solution already, sodium bisulfate will make your solution very acidic. Do you know of a base used on evaporust to take the acid or vice/versa?
Metabisulfate doesn't exist, you are confusing with metabisulfite, used in homebrewing. Sodium bisulfite NaHSO3 only exists in solution (Na+ HSO3- aq.), it precipitates as sodium metabisulfite Na2S2O5. But that is unrelated to this process, which used sodium bisulfate NaHSO4, which does exist as a solid. It is basically partially neutralised sulfuric acid H2SO4, and still pretty damn acidic.
Thats interesting litres here in NZ 5 litres cost me NZD 50 at $10 a litre its cheaper than any other rust converter available. Including the CRC tantic acid based converter.
I realize this is an older video. Thing I have to offer using vinegar is it woeks 10× better when it is hot! Not boiling, maybe coffee temp or slightly below. Changes its ability to remove rust dramatically. Not sure if the motility of the solution being hot/super warm is the key, but, works way better.
Great tip thank you!
and, afterward you can drink it. I hear it cures cancer, lol.
Hi I started using molasses and water 9:1 mix after watching an Australian fellow dipping an entire car in the stuff for rust removal. the stuff really works, much slower than Evaporust and the upside🤣 if you have some molasses left over you can make some cookies.
Rich
I loved your video because I'm starting to restore to restore a 1996 Ford Ranger that's in pretty good shape for it's age,except for small areas on the engine compartment and mounting hardware!
Your video was an answer from heaven.
GREAT VIDEO I HOPE YOU KEEP MAKING MORE!
Thank you.
Great video. Thank you for the research and testing. I love Evaporust. I use it all the time.
Oh, no way, I though this was a project farm video when I clicked on it!
you could kinda tell it isn't because the title lacks "let's find out!" on it lol
You absolutely can etch metals at neutral pH, especially when chelating agents are involved. Look up Pourbaix diagrams to learn more about this sort of chemistry. I'm an amateur, but it looks like iron is best protected against etching between pH 9-13, before complexing species (of which chelators are an example) are involved.
Are you suggesting that more citric acid be added to get to 9pH?
@@wantmp3 Adding more citric acid would lower the pH *below* 6.5 (And in any case, evaporust is at 6.5, not in the 9-13 range.)
Good job on trying for evaporust. On old radios what is used as well as evaporust is naval jelly. Use a tiny brush to put on the Naval jelly and it makes old rusty radio metal look new.
Where I live I have to order Evapo rust, and the total comes out to $80 a gallon, its absolutely ridiculous, I now will try this, should save me an incredible amount, thanks!
I've used Evaporust for years, tried a bunch of other stuff and by far is the best. Yeah I wish it was a bit more affordable. I'm usually doing small parts and have found a soaked paper towel around the part in a zip type plastic bag with the air pressed out is a good way to economize that stuff.
Am i the only person who just breaks off tiny little pieces of ph paper rather than using whole strips? Its quite cost effective. Also. A great rust solution is sodium sulfate, i usually have ALOT in my boiling flask from the fuming nitric acid distillation process. Its usually a big rick hard mass at the bottom that requires using water to dissolve it in order to remove it. Put it in a bucket and add in your rusty steel.. it makes hardened high carbon steel look very nice.. and if antool or blade is differentially hardened then you can see a really great contrasting demarkation between soft and hard steel. Really cool.
a little video about this process and effects won't hurt
I get 3 tests from each of my strips, I use tweezers to avoid getting it on me.
Great follow-up video, glad you made this one.
Ordered and received all ingredients and good to go! Thanks for sharing.
A comparison with oxalic acid would have been interesting, as it seems to have a good reputation for rust conversion. (Serendipity! I was _just_ looking for information on evapo-rust.) Very good, thank you.
Thank you for figuring this out and validating it!
If the citric acid or vinegar don't seem to be getting to all the rust, perhaps adding some dish soap to those chemicals as well.
Also, I've found that putting the container of solution in an ultrasonic machine filled with water speeds up the process significantly.
Thanks you for creating such great content. Actually using evaporust on a post vice restore. Will keep this recipe handy for the next one. 👍
Wow you almost nailed it. Evaporust uses Tannic acid and Ca EDTA. Very cool video my friend.
How did you find what they used?
@@jackgriffiths6366 I am a chemical engineer.
For small parts, I have found that a warm solution of citric acid(as shown here, approx 80-100F, if you want warmer, best to test) in an ultrasonic tank works very well, and the ultrasonic motion helps to agitate the loose particulate away from the parts. Of course, using a proper dilution is helpful. But its insanely cheap, can be dumped on the backyard garden/grass without issue, unlike heavier chemicals. Plus, citric acid is cheap cheap cheap. R/O water from the local water store, my local also offers RO/DI. With an ultrasonic, make sure to use a secondary container to hold your working solution in the tank of water. I use the same process for cleaning parts with solvents, things like small engine carbs and parts when rebuilding engines. Ultrasonic really speeds up the time, plus using a heated/warm solution vs room temperature.
It's safe for your grass, but be careful around bushes: I spend way to much on chelated iron as a safe herbicide to take out various broadleaf weeds. Seems I should have been using citric acid/edta and junk parts the whole time!
Cheers for that, for years I've always used vinegar 50/50 with water for car panels that are only slightly surface rusted, never had it come back but for heavy rust I'll be making some of that solution you have come up with. 😁
Very good. I read the subtext. I wish you were a neighbor. Your equipment is similar to mine. This video was gold. Well done!
Nice! I've always wanted clones for my pennies.
I've used plenty of phosphoric, and it doesn't clean rust off surfaces - it's great at converting what rust remains after you've cleaned a part up, leaving a finish similar to the Evaporust, but it's not really any good at getting the surface rust off in the first place.
Thank you for providing this video; great stuff.
Very good video, thanks
Also, notice how the citric acid solution went a lot more yellowish-green instead of brown. That is due to base metal corrosion, the Fe3+ ions and the acidic environment together dissolve some Fe metal and form Fe2+ ions, which are green.
You remove a lot more iron sanding them with citric acid and I'm not seeing anybody complaining.
The citric acid sounds like it might be one of the best alternatives to evaporust just because of the accessibility. You can buy citric acid everywhere, so you don't have to order it.
It also doesn't require a hazmat charge for shipping, which also helps reduce shipping costs(if you need to have it shipped).
Thanks. I have been looking for a better rust remover and Evaporust looks like what I need.
Brilliant, thank you for sharing. I'll have to make some.
I was happy cause cant get Evaporust where I live, but then found out I cant get Tetrasodium EDTA either. Oh well :(
Honestly, nearly every form of EDTA should work...
it is just EDTA plus sodium hydroxide. you should have lye
....EDTA is used in food industry , right ?
It would be interesting to compare each of them with occasional agitation vs being in an ultrasonic cleaner.
Good stuff, and great explanation! I really like how you reverse-engineered this so well! I have some phosphoric acid lying around, so I might have to test that out in a video...
This is incredibly useful! Thanks a bunch!
Neat! I know for a fact that it's not EDTA in Evapo-Rust.
A few commenters noted that the German sds actually lists the full ingredients. Unfortunately I can't obtain the main one outside of buying in metric tons from China. Big fan of your channel! Thanks for dropping a comment!
@@ElementalMaker So, what is the "main one" that you cannot buy ... ??
@@ElementalMaker Can you guys steer us in the right direction?
So what is it then?
……we all “know for a fact” you’re not going to share your “knowledge”……pity.
There has to be some chelator simmilar to EDTA, if not it. But on top of that, it also contains a sulfur compund which reacts with iron bonded on chelator molecule. It can liberate used chelator molecule, making it reactive again. Sulfur molecule probably has to create some sort of iron complex in the reaction.
If you can wait a week and want a 55 gallon tank, you can not beat molasses. Two gallons of molasses in 55 gallons of water turns the rust into a black silt that washes off under a tap. Get the molasses from an animal feed suppliers, people feed it to horses. It's about $11 a gallon although I think it is sold by weight so it's maybe 10lbs that looks about the size of a gallon. I have left stuff in for weeks and it forms some kind of a passivation layer that is resistant to rust flashing after the black silt is washed off.
Cool, thanks. I live in Michigan and work on cars a lot so I know all about rust. I've also been amazed by the effectiveness of Evapo Rust. The price isn't terrible but it can add up if you need to buy a lot, I'll look into giving this a try next time I need to de-rust something big.
Although I'm sure you're way past this experiment I just came across your video and appreciated the idea trying to replicate the evapo-rust formula. I use gallons of the stuff so I can actually personally benefit from trying to make it. Your mention of the somewhat sweet, sulfur smell in the original product made me think about possible additional ingredients which might account for that and actually balance the formula. They may actually be using either cane or beet molasses which has a relatively stable pH 5-7 or nuetral for beet molasses. And since they also promote the product as environmentally safe to handle this ingredient makes sense . What do you think?
I will give these old nuts a longer soak any day of the week if I can save a few bucks 👍. Solid video, rust removal is just so satisfying.
Great video and info. Thank you.
Fascinating! For an old axe or similar tool, I do 24 hours in vinegar (don’t leave it in until it eats the metal), then hit it with a wire wheel. At this point I can usually see the temper line. Then I do a day or two of electrolysis, wire wheel, then a few days in Evaporust, and final wire wheel. I don’t mind spending a few more days, if my Evaporust is a lot cheaper. 👍
Need to sit outside their factory and write down all the DOT labels on the trucks/rail cars going in.
From the Evaporust site: When finished, rinse item with water. If deep rust remains in pits, re-immerse item until all the rust is gone. Un-rusted metal will not be affected. *NOTE: This stage is VERY important in getting the best results*
I'd rather just do the citric acid... Probably the same steps, you think?
I have tried many of these to remove rust over the last few decades including reverse electrolysis. Each has their pros and cons.
Yes, Citric acid does a great job but as he stated... it WILL remove good metal too if you leave it in the solution too long. Just like vinegar.
You really should neutralize the acid after (rinse or soak it with 1 cup baking soda to 1 gallon of water).
Try citric acid or vinegar on a part you don't care about just to get an idea of what it might do if left too long.
I accidentally left a part with a MIG welded joint in citric acid for over a week. The weld almost disappeared. It looked like a piece of wood that wood worms attacked.
Way back when, racers would dip their car bodies in acids like vinegar or stronger to lighten them.
@@Joe.Doucette "I accidentally left a part with a MIG welded joint in citric acid for over a week. The weld almost disappeared. It looked like a piece of wood that wood worms attacked. " Yeah right. FOS.
@@teebosaurusyou FOS? Really? Well bless your little heart.
What's BS about that? If the weld wire was softer and more reactive it would become a sacrificial anode and get eaten up quickly.
Excellent information - thanks.
Good vid, thanks for your efforts.
I'm guessing it's a lignosulfonate of some kind from what I found while searching. It's an organic byproduct of paper making, a chelating agent, and is listed as smelling like molasses.
I used ascorbic acid in an electrochemical cell with a carbon anode electrode to free up some rusted solid steel, did do a good job on the rust, but of course nothing it could do about the pitting it had gotten. Ascorbic acid as I had a bag that was a few years expired, so not classed as edible, but still good as an organic acid. Also works well to anodise aluminium parts, again with the carbon cathode. Took a few seconds to anodise aluminium nicely, and a few hours with a 12V battery and a 50W lamp in series to get the rust away.
Not that I see Evaporust here, only things for rust removal are acids, and then passivate with phosphoric acid, or use rust remover gels that are acid based.
Good thing about phosphoric acid is that it takes very short time.In about 5- 10 min it eats the rust away,it wont eat deep rust but if you use a wire wheel and reapply it ,its very fast.When it comes with a contact with rust it starts to bubble with a white foam.If you wash it with water it wont leave it thou.I buy it in a hardware store ,its sold in a 75% solution as a rust remover.I used to use a vinegar but its not that cheaper compared to acid and its painfuly slow and you have to use a wire brush.Great thing with acid is that you can submerge the part in it or simply use a brush.Oh you can just wipe it with a rag and paint over it in no time.
Nice .. Love a good rust remover.
I wonder if instead of Citric acid that they might be using methylsulfonic acid. You had mentioned a sulfur compound and methylsulfonic acid is used in the recovery of metal salts like iron oxides and zinc. Combined with a chelating agent like EDTA I think it would be pretty effective.
I was recently at my local home improvement store (Menard’s) and was looking at rust removers. WD-40 now has their own formula. The darn stuff is $25 per gallon!! Comparing WD-40’s MSDS, to Evapo-Rust’s MSDS, they have identical physical properties, but neither lists their specific ingredients. A patent search for each product returned nothing. They’re keeping their recipes secret. Definitely, a very smart move.
Great information. TY. If you ever repeat this experiment, I'd like to see adding your surfactant to all 4 solutions, not just the tetra sodium EDTA/citric acid solution.
Another awesome video with great info
This is excellent! Evaporust is super expensive and weirdly hard to find by me.
Here in Japan, a quart of Evapo-Rust is like >$200 USD!
Look up the patent application?
Yes! I've been wanting a cheaper evaporust for years!
Keylating Agent.!!!!! Wow so Cool You stated that. Best info I have found ! Thank You tons I have several projects that will be worked on now .!!!! A wrought Iron lamposost most of all.
.... "you can see the control hasn't changed, crazy"... lol
If you sent a sample to an analytical chemistry lab, they could use things like a TGA, FTIR, ICP-OES, to work out what's in it. It would be unlikely to give you the exact composition, but the ICP would probably be able to say "these elements in this ratio" from which you can do some further tests with the FTIR to work out if there's a hydrocarbon in there, which one.
legal trade laws would have to come into play there right? because its a protected formula, once the computer realized what it was, would it just say its private? or would the problem just come in if u attempted to manufacture it?
@@4dirt2racer0 For it to be a protected formula, it would have to be patented, which would legally protect the inventor from others reproducing his solution, as invention takes time, effort, and often money, and we want to reward this investment and allow them to recoup their costs and make a little profit. But the patent is a guide on how to make it, so once that patent is up, anyone can legally sell a cheap knock off. That's why they didn't patent Dr Pepper or the Coca-Cola recipe. They are trade secrets instead. Which means anyone who has information on how it's made is under NDA, but there is nothing you can do to stop someone investing the time and effort into reverse engineering it, hence Pepsi-Cola and the other numerous knock offs.
There's nothing to stop you breaking a patent at home, personally. It's intended to stop people commercially producing your product and taking a cut of your profits before you've recouped your investment.
A lot of the equipment I mentioned works off a data base of "fingerprints" of materials. So it would give a list of potential matches with a percentage match to each. Something like pure ethanol would be easy to identify from boiling point and density, or maybe a gas chromatograph- mass spectrometer (GC-MS). That could also identify combinations of solvents.
I used a GC-MS to analyse what compounds were comprising an odor and it told us a list of the composing compounds. The university I worked with on the project were using similar technology to reverse engineer whisky, they can detect a fake with high quantitative certainty. They were also doing something on the decomposition of a corpse.
@@Leo99929 - doesn't a patent 'just' protect the owner from people profitiing from the patent? If you were to make some equivalent solution entirely for your own use, not sell any on, then are you breaking the law?
@@thosdot6497 Totally! You can make as much for personal use as you like. You just can't sell it. The cost of prosecuting individuals for patent infringement makes it infeasible .
@@Leo99929 - I see that completely as a win-win! Evaporust don't have to bother making the stuff, and I don't have to bother buying it from them!
Compliments on your efforts here bud. Thanks. I have some tools that were abused by leaving them out. I'll be trying this out.
Nice! I know I'm alte to comment but that's gone right into my Maker Tips playlist. Phosphoric acid (H3PO4) is in a lot of soft drinks to make them a bit tart, coca cola I think for one - and I've had a phosphoric acid based "rust passivator" which you use to turn the metal black and not rust again. But a bit got through my rubber glove into a fresh cut and it was DEFIINITELY acidic (ask me how I know...) and so I immediately went to wash off and look up phosphoric acid and found out it's a food ingredient so wasn't likely to end in my slow agonising death. But I'd though it was s rust remover when in fact it converts rust so the best way I found to finish was to roughly wirebrush back thick rust and then apply the H3PO4, give it time to do its thing, and then wash down afterwards. It was also good to wirebrush bare new metal, spray salt and vinegar water over it and let it rust, then hit it with H3PO4 and - black surface that didn't rust again.
I literally just threw out some bolts that sat in vinegar too long xD
I keep a concentrated solution of citric acid on hand so I don't have to dissolve it each time I need it. Thank you for this video very helpful!
Very helpful video
It will eventually attack the underlying metal if the item is left in it for months or a year+. I had some items left in evaporust for like a year and the spring dissolved and the metal files fell apart.
The abnormal component of the chelating agent used would be the high selectivity they claim, saying it "bonds to iron exclusively" this is not true for EDTA which has quite a strong affinity to zinc (just to pick one of many), One other odd component is that they say it has no effect on hematite.
It does mention that 'Evapo-rust will remove "sacrificial coatings" such as bluing, browning, zinc, or other oxides'.
Evaporust cost a fortune in the UK so your formula is much appreciated
Many thanks for that. Useful tip.
Could it be that if you used Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4) instead of the citric acid as the neutralizer it would work faster? That might be the source of the sulfur.
I wonder what you can find if you send evaporust to a chemical analyzer