The Great Kendrick Lamar Debate
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2017
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I swear kendrick gonna release his 50th critically acclaimed album and people still gonna say
"he ain't there yet"
exactly
Dusty Computer Always want to wit till their gone to give credit
Very true. its sad to see people would only call someone great until they're dead and thats really stupid to me. Like, why not appreciate the artist as he/she is alive and give credit where its due.
*Dead lmao
Yeah you nailed it
End of debate when u say u don't listen to hip hop
Thank you! My thoughts exactly. How great would it have been if Justin was like "oh, well in that case..." [removes headphones, stands up, walks away]
this is a great example of a debate between someone with almost nothing to say and someone with way too much patience
Dj Def Kendrick is an artist that not just a rapper, the voice of an era makes him more, like a Marvin Gaye with what's going on, or Stevie's talking book, he is beyond rap. Not a GOAT; yet.
a lot of people compare him to baldwin, I think thats a good comparison. Both people kinda trying to carry the whole conversation at once
That's precisely why I don't listen to Eminem fans.
"Look man" "All I'm saying" "20 Years" "Spoonfeeding" "Scarface" "I don't even listen to rap anymore"
Hideotic lmfaoooo
HAHAHA
I literally skipped to a random ass part of the video(12:53) and I died laughing
This is perfect
get his old ass otta there
I'm a white girl who listens to a bit of rap but my background is more in poetry and I would say you can take his stuff and put it on paper and it stands up in the context of that history. And that's why it's transcendent. It stands up in the context of rap, in the context of music, in the context of performance art, and the context of the written word. In that regard the conversation shouldn't be about the best rapper of all time but about his place in the pantheon of artists transcendent of mediums.
Allie Doak great point
Allie Doak
Allie Doak this is what makes him GOAT for me
oneManArmy but see my GOAT for say photography is Max Ernst because he's undoubtedly a master with very specific skill but he doesn't have mass appeal only art nerds care about his work. For me a GOAT must demonstrate the highest level of skill within their medium and I think there are people technically better than Kendrick like scarface and a few others.
Makes perfect sense.
There's a certain greatness to Kendrick Lamar, it seems like everything he does is the right step
Malik Yehia THIS!
Couldn't agree more. I think this is an overlooked aspect of his career so far.
I hear you, but there was a point when people said the same about DMX. The first three albums he could do no wrong. I think that's the arguments they're making about longevity.
Malik Yehia Kendrick Lamar is the real deal no doubt but he add up to the legends he on the porch not in the house for me ...but he has a lot of outkast influence i got 3 stack above him but Kendrick creatively is off the charts
I think Kendrick is Outkast love child
"I think nostalgia is a hell of a drug"
Justin killed em with that.
Tell that white dude a five star hotel is a five star hotel , it could be surrounded by motels and downgraded 2 star hotels but it doesn't change the fact that it still remains a five star hotel.
One of the greatest rappers to ever make a studio album is Lauryn Hill. And she has 1 Studio Album ..... So the amount of albums is irrelevant. Its the impact of the artist on the game
Derrik Cook True, to an extent, but no one would say L Boogie is the GOAT emcee. She's one of most crucial figures but not in that top 5-10 discussion.
with lauryn she also has the fugees under her belt but onto the point, its a hard argument to make since the issue is "they only had 1-2 albums, so we dont know if that was their peek, and they had nothing else" so in the case of kendrick i feel its hard to argue that he isnt at least top 5 with him being able to make 3 albums at what are imo biggy and tupac level albums
artistonartists first off she was nominated for FOURTEEN grammys and won SIX grammys in one year, and off of ONE album. She is one of the most sampled hip hop artists today and a lyrical genius. Take three seats with yo uneducated self. You dont even know hip hop lil dude
Kendrick was nominated for ELEVEN grammys and won five last year and won two the year before off of ONE ALBUM. So that means Kendrick won seven off of TPAB which means he's got more than lauryn. Apparently you dont know hip hop, big guy. Lol.
Man please, understand that this is after kendrick released MULTIPLE albums with hella features. Lauryn did ONE studio album by herself with no features. Know your facts lil homie
I feel like Drake should be considered Pop/R&B/hip-hop which widens the audience of his music so if he beats Kendrick in number of units sold its because he has a wider audience, while Kendrick is solely the genre of hip- hop/rap. When it comes to pure skill/who's better, I will have to say Kendrick. Kendrick shows diversity in his catalogue, different flows all around, and he goes out of his comfort zone. Drake has too many similar tracks with the same 4 4 flow or 3 4 flow or 6 8 flow. There can be no comparison because Drake just doesn't measure up.
EDIT: Yo i know kendrick takes from soul/funk/blues but he INFUSES THAT into his base layer of RAP. Maybe I worded it wrong, but I already stated Kendrick is diverse with his catalogue, AKA using different genres mixed together to make new sounds. Also, just because Kendrick is featured on a pop artists song, that doesn't whatsoever categorize Kendrick as "POP". To finish, I fuck with both artists in the end so this is really just my opinion on a 1 v 1 catalogue match up.
I agree, Drake dickriders love bringing up numbers and sales but Drake only has more sales because he's a damn popstar.
Tree Houz this arguement is silly there both different type of rappers that make different type of music and paint different pictures you cant say one is better
Kendrick shows diversity but drake doesn't 🤔🤷🏻♂️ idk
OblivionEssence Kendrick has featured on two popstars songs. That means he has a pop following? Trust me, he does not. Humble debuted at #2 because of his HIP HOP fans. Even if Kendrick did have a pop following are we really gonna act like that measures up to drakes following? I know many eople who don't listen to ANY rap music. They hate hip hop but they know who drake is and like his music cause his music isn't pure hip hop/rap it is more pop/r&b/dance hall than rap music now. Drake hasn't been seen as a rapper since NWTS and IYRTITL
Tree Houz I like Drake better than Kendrick, but at least Kendrick is rapping. He wants to be the greatest rapper of all time, Drake wants to be Michael Jackson.
Did this man say he doesn't listen to rap anymore on HIPHOPDX
The Glasser lmao. .. time for the video to stop and let Justin talk only.. lol
The Glasser Justin is on Jude's shows bro the all out show and Jude's been involved in the rap/hiphop scene before you where born man just because he doesn't to hip hop that's coming out now doesn't mean he can't speak on it he works on a rap station he has to listen to rap at least when he's working he's not totally oblivious to hip hop
The Glasser lmaoo
So how can he disagree ? I don't get it
As soon as I heard that I skip.
William Shakespeare was one of the biggest thieves in literature yet he is still regarded as the goat because he improved on those who came before him. At this point Kendrick's body of work is so strong that he is being compared to The Beatles and Pink Floyd, not so much due to his lyricism but his ability to conceptualize. He acknowledged that he borrows from 2pac, Eminem and you can hear Andre 3000 in his story telling not to mention Biggie's wordplay on his mixtapes. Still, if MCs are judged by lyrics, punchlines, depth, vocal cords, precision and creativity I can't think of a mainstream rapper who does as many things as well and as consistently as K-Dot.
Yep, and we as black people we judge our art harder than anyone else. Which to me makes no sense. Either you understand art or you're just judgemental with little understanding of art and culture.
SHUUSHHHH
Wtf did Shakespeare steal? Maybe basic plots from history but there are only like 9 types of plot. Have you been watching some bullshit documentary? Out of all his contemporaries he is the one with the most historical evidence and record to back his achievements. I bet you haven't even read his shit.
People say BIG is the greatest and he only had like 2 studio albums
Trevor Ward Those people are wrong.
You calling us rap illiterate fuck boys when you yourself saying that Eminem never has made a classic album? Have you heard of Marshall Mathers LP? Slim Shady LP?
I was just listening to Ready to Die last night. I'm not putting down Big he's one of the best, I just think it's hypocritical to say that kendrick can't be the best after 4 good albums and Big can after 3. Hell people say Nas is the best some times and he's fucking incredible don't get me wrong but he's got arguably one classic, Illmatic, and he rest are solid but not necessarily classics
BENEDiCT DONALD nah man, I don't agree with that, SSLP and MMLP were both classics, Eminem Show? Probably not, dope albums but not a classics, but those other two were, they brought something really different to Hip Hop, showing that hip hop doesn't have to sound all the same
BENEDiCT DONALD as soon as you said Eminem has never had a classic album, you lost 10 times over
Kendrick continues to push the hip hop culture forward. Who else could have Bono and Mike Will Made It on a song together? Who fused jazz fusion with the trap music? He is being the hero hip hop deserves.
"But not the one it needs rite now"
This white guy is doing some gymnastics just to keep his point. He trapped himself with his own logic. He doesn't realize that KDOT released 8 joints over as many years.
Borrowing is what we are supposed to do. Everything is a derivative of something else. Kendrick is in the convo and that's all.
Right. If you include mixtapes he still falls short of many other artist. Sha Stimuli did 12 in a year, twice. There are a lot of mixtape series that are further along than Kendrick's entire catalog.
So are many mixtapes. Just cause a project is good doesn't mean you should include it in his albums.
thats why Justin corrected himself and said he had 7 projects
so were all 24 of sha stimuli's mixtapes in those 2 years great?
Trevor Handberry Kanye has stated a tribe called quest is what made him, and people say he is one of the goats. And it's like everything is a derivative and kendrick hasn't had a bad album yet, but Kanye has. Based on what I said this white guys logic is so flawed
"Welcome to compton" where Kendrick Lamar shows us how "to pimp a butterfly" in "section 80." The man is a "overly dedicated" "good kid in a mad city" that tells us you can either chose to stay "untitled" or become "the youngest head nigga in charge" that kills every rapper with "C4"...... Damn.
Negan I see what you did there kung fu Kenny for the win
*that kills every rapper with "C4" on his "Training Day" alone.....Damn. Good shit tho bruh
Negan the lack of recognition nowadays nicely paraphrased yo
Thank you!
Mad corny
justin is such a chill ass dude to be able to deal with the white dude's shit 😂, far out i was getting triggered
naw the black dude dont know wtf he talking about
SMASHERGRILLA justin knows his shit but its all opinion
Whaaaaa? Judes blacker than a lot of black people.
King Kendrick Lamar
Malik Yehia Facts
Pure Facts 💯🙌🏾
Malik Yehia W
You compare body of work. It's simple. k.dot's critical consistency is unprecedented, regardless of album or single. GOAT.
Jack Doogue critics can be bought
Shepherd Chimera they can. However, I don't see TDE or Kendrick resulting to doing that
Jack Doogue Ever heard of E-40 consistent for 30 years and never dropped a whack album, PAC had 5 albums all great, jay-z consistent I can go on and on. Kendrick is not the first he is right now.
Majj Mahal P
Kendrick is in the topic. His lyrics, productions, thoughts, and the time he takes and still remains relevant but he actually talks about situations that rappers make a simple song about, turns the thought and opinions on them. Such as Israelites, his past, fathers past, government, and personal situations he deals with now. No rapper before has bled on tracks and gave all of these different topics and continue to make new ones. Such as Pac, my second previous favorite artist, but he just doesn't have different flows a lot, his music remains on certain topic. Biggie's was focused on his past, nas the same. Eminem was his problems but he doesn't last anymore he's not talked about as much. Kendrick is young with years left (no tragedy predictions) and he changes the flow, implementing the blues, more jazz, and r&b but makes it into rap that we know and respect. That's just my opinion though, if you have negative comments save them.🤷🏾♂️
Kamaric Harrison great breakdown!!
Kamaric Harrison I agree, I take quality over quantitative consistence any day. A gem will shine because that's what gems do. Not because of what it's compared to (hypothetically speaking). I've liked Kendrick for a while. NO ONE I've listened to has portrayed this level of poetic prominence. Yeah you can talk about rivalry, drugs, money, and sex.... but "let's dive deeper than that" and "pimp a butterfly"
bro er wrong he aint doing or saying shit that aint already been said and done foh
You was making a good point then went off the rail
Kamaric Harrison a
why debate this with someone who doesnt listen to HipHop?
kendrick is the greatest rapper right now and he has put himself easily into that conversation of best ever. he's there for me
LookItsShak best ever? You have legends who revolutionized hip hop and birthed 90% of the rappers in the genre. Kendrick isn't even close yet smh
Exactly. Kendrick is changing the way concept albums are being done to me. No one is doing albums like he is right now. Not as good at least
My question is, what does Kendrick have to do to be considered the goat?
being consistently progressive so that his growth shows in his art.....so far thats exactly what he's doing. Growth consistency and range.
this comment is dumb as fuck! STEVIE WONDER IS A FUCKING LEGEND and he's still ALIVE!
he has to be consistent 5-7 years from now. Rap is watered down so his music will get more praise. But I don't think he'll ever get the goat status because the legends like Nas, Rakim, PAC and Big revolutionized rap and inspired 90% of most rappers
"Dying is common" smh lol. So common every human being ever has done or will do it.
Biggy Bwana He can not be the goat but he can be top 5 all time. Tupac can not be passed. Just like Michael Jordan in Basketball. Pac is the reason most of our favourite rappers are rappers. He was just something else. So nobody will ever reach that spot. But he can be top 5 and be alive just like Jay-Z and Eminem. Both of those guys are so consistent. Jay-Z almost has 15 albums. 12 solo albums all of them platinum. Eminem is also so consistent. Kendrick needs to keep it up. With the quality content like DAMN. I think he'll easily be top 5 all time.
Kendrick Lamar like Kanye West will never be without a career. They are always gonna be able to take years off and come back better than ever.
Eden Mugar The Intelligence Of The Gemini.
lee veney
Absolutely right!
Kdot, Kanye, Lauryn Hill, Maxwell, 2pac, Biggie, Ice Cube, Angelina Jolie, heck even Trump & Kodak Black... Geminis will always have ever lasting spotlight.
Not just them though!
You pretty much described every celebrity there is. 🙌
Eden Mugar Except Kendrick Lamar is not a sociopath and is way more artistic.
I think what Rude Jude is failing to realize and Justin is trying to preach is that Metacritic gave the album a 96 rating so far. That is one of the highest rated hip hop LPs in HIP HOP HISTORY. Not current competition. Meaning the new era rap like Lil Uzi and Kodak aren't the only ones being rated here. That is why I personally believe that Kendrick Lamar is Hip Hop's GOAT right now. He's on a streak, and I don't think he's going to stop in 10 years.
You can't be the GOAT of right now. GOAT means Greatest Of All Time. He's the best mainstream rapper right now no doubt. But saying the GOAT of right now makes no sense.
METAcritic does not give ratings, it collects it.
Potency Gaming agreed. People are so quick to jump to the GOAT conclusion
bro wtf r u talking about metacritic has only been around since 1999 so that shit is irrelevant to the discussion
Aaron bro 10 years? His music's gonna live 4 ages n his gonna keep on improving n improving. Kendrick is 1 of the MVPs of rap alive, his music is gonna be relevant, necessary and important just as Eminem's or Jay Z's or any other great's n that's a fact.
Lmao all the callers say this generation of rap is too low. I say these callers ability of hearing is too low if they can't recognize great material and see that kendricks first 4 albums shit on many greats. To say that he just borrowed some rappers blueprint before him is blasphemous. Because that's what rap essentially is, to take styles before you and make them better which is exactly what Kendrick did.
no no E40 is the real art
I grew up listening to Kanye, Lupe, Mos Def etc in the 2000s. As someone who was too young when Pac, Biggie, Nas etc were around I've never seen/heard anything like Kendrick. I'm able to go back appreciate these greats, but right now we're living and breathing Kendrick. For me, Kendrick's the best artist I've ever heard. Kendrick has put out the highest quality albums and before that mixtapes for over a decade. It's easy for me to call Kendrick GOAT. Lupe is my favorite rapper but he can't do what Kendrick does and there are moments in his discography I want to skip. I have yet to be let down by Kendrick for over a decade! That's fucking incredible! My other favorites Mos Def, Kanye, Common all have albums that I don't listen to, I still love them but it's still something to consider. I think it's perfectly okay to appreciate greatness when you hear it. For me, Hunte said it "5 album streak at this level." Kendrick=GOAT
Max McIntyre you haven't heard much hip hop then, if you are too young, you can't say Kendrick is the goat if you haven't listened to everyone
You're right I haven't listened to everyone, but I have heard a good deal of hip-hop and enjoyed going back and listening to 90s rappers. I didn't live in that time, so it's difficult to pick up on everything that was going on. In my comment I was trying to say that from my perspective and maybe others around my age, Kendrick is something incredibly special. In the future nostalgia may shade my perspectives but right now and over the past decade he's continually raised the bar and never let down. From the perspective of Kendrick's generation I think its pretty easy to see him as the goat. But I understand and respect the older generations views too. The greats influences are seen throughout Kendrick's work, and are what originally inspired to go and listen to them.
Max McIntyre your favorite rapper rapper is Tupac. Tupac is the best MC
I'm 36. I witnessed almost every Era of hip-hop except the mid 80's. I really REALLY love Kendrick. But you youngins didn't witness Illmatic and It Was Written, didn't witness Eminem's 3 diamond selling album run, didn't witness Andre 3000, Scarface etc.
You can listen, for example, to Andre 3000 now and appreciate it, but the game has evolved since then so it doesn't sound as incredible because you've heard the stuff he inspired and how they evolved the game taking his styles.
Kendrick is great. But he has a LONG way to go. Making a great album in 2017 is easy, we have more information and more understanding of how to make a great album. When these old school cats were doing it, they had no point of reference at all. They were innovating.
Mac Lethal Good points, OutKast were incredible innovators. I listened to Aquemini in the late 2000s and that was still fresh as hell. At least Kendrick is still evolving the art form, even though he does have the blueprints laid out for him by the older generation.
We can all agree on this - we all love Justin
No one ever mentions Lupe Fiasco, J. Cole, or Joey Baddass when they speak on lyricists of this generation.
That's a weak excuse for not saying K.Dot is the greatest rapper. I personally don't think he is the greatest at this point, but saying he's not due to the talent of others is dumb. You can't compare it to sports because his ART doesn't go head to head like in sports. No artist's greatest can play "defense" on his ability. JayZ and Nas co-existed. One being great didn't stop the other from being great. And they didn't need each other to exist. They were great and happen to go at each other.
Kendrick is doing his thing on a level that most of his peers are not and even many in the 90s weren't. His greatest is due to his artistry and that's the only guidelines we should hold as standard for his worth. Who gives a shit that the Lil Uzi Verts 2 Chains Troy Aves, etc......aren't on his level with their artistry. That shouldn't effect his worth.
Kendrick exists because he is great, not because others aren't.....POINT BLANK......stop the bullshit hating........
Again, I don't feel he is the greatest yet or if he will be that, but he has a resume that is worth putting him in the conversation regardless of peers lack or resume.......
As soon as he said "I don't even listen to rap anymore, Its just logic" i stopped listening to what he said lmao
Man 20 years from now I'm still going to listen to good kid M.A.D.D. City that is my everything.
Getting close to 10 years and GKMC is a classic.
Hip-hop isn't basketball the performance of other rappers during your time period doesn't directly influence your rap skill, you can compare Kendrick next to pac just as easily as you can to Cole
Kendrick Lamar is the greatest rapper to release a studio album. feel free to get mad
Fat VanillaNutzz this is objectively false
Tattooed Banana share with me why you think this
also this guy is annoying me talking about scarface being the first. Burke was the first 100m record holder but bolt is the best, bill russell was the first to be called the greatest but Michael Jordan is, just like how tupac biggie scarface ect were once the greatest but Kendrick Lamar is now. if the first person to do anything is considered the greatest there's no point in aiming for greatness.
music literally cant be objective, its all subjective
Fat VanillaNutzz my nigga where is your picture from I can't fuckin think of it😂
Nostalgia is deceiving
So is the present. It's very easy to be prisoner of the moment.
Both good points.
It's funny how these guys keep comparing Kendrick to the shitty mumble rappers of today and leaving real heavy hitters like Joey Badass, Earl Sweatshirt, Danny Brown, Big KRIT etc. These dudes are real mc's, real artists, real competition, maybe they just don't sell as well or get that recognition from mass media. Stop comparing him to J Cole, Drake, Yachty, 21 Savage, I can't stand those guys, they aren't the competition Kendrick is battling, but even then he smashes on all of them. My favorite hip hop albums up til about 5, 6 years ago were 36 Chambers, Low End Theory, The Infamous, Aquemini, etc but after hearing Kdot's catalog, I think I'm gonna have to rethink that list.
The original Kung Fu Kenny... Don Cheadle in the video.
This nigga said e40
tell me when to GO
I put 40 in my top 5. he one of the sickest.
No other Goat from early 90's, except for Scarface, is still putting out good albums in the mainstream except E-40. If you are putting out Anthems in 94 and still putting out Anthems today (20 years later). How can you not put E-40 in the conversation. If you haven't listened to the Mailman you shouldn't comment on him.
E-40 has a patented flow. I have never heard anyone able to bite E-40's style. Never. He is the most original rapper to every live. I didn't understand him at first. a lot of his fans didn't. Then one day it just clicks (no pun intended) for you. His flow is just genius. One day your face just screws up while listening and you start mean muggin and you feel it. Go listen to "In a Major Way". Genius....and GOAT
Sea Pea ghostface imo is still putting out good albums. Raekwon is another with his latest release the wild (which gets my vote for album of the year).
Both you guys are suffering from old head 90s syndrome. considering how many sound cloud rappers you got ,and every week someone new's supposed to be the next big thing,this guy deserves credit for just staying relevant. Plus I don't agree with the "he doesn't have that much competition argument " :Earl is one the best lyricist I ever heard in my life. Drake is most commercially successful rapper since Eminem. Pusha t got bars for days. Joey badass is like a lyrical gymnast,logic makes corny albums but can rap his ass off.
karma delivery theres always been garbage in thr rap game but that is now what the industry is glorifying
Plus a lot of the albums the white guy's quoting don't stand the test of time. Mob deep are great but for only the 1st album stands the test of time (in my opinion )
karma delivery people use the term "classic" too loosely
karma delivery being the best lyricist doesnt equate to do great music lol... kendrick just makes great and better music than anyone in the game right now
karma delivery they are talking about mainstream rap which kendrick is apart of. Most SoundCloud rappers to me are underground rappers. SoundCloud in general is a mixed bag tho lots of trash on there.
If Kendrick came up in the 90s rapping, how would he rate then?? Answers.
he would be in the top 3 with Pac and Biggie
He'd likely be irrelevant
For real my nigga, change the time and this wouldn’t even be a convo, he would be undisputed held up to pac nas and biggie but they wanna not give credit cause of the date and the newness, bullshit, greatness is greatness regardless of generation or time and if a nigga can’t see that he ain’t got the awareness to even be in the conversation
James McCabe If I'm being serious, Kendrick is one the greatest I've ever heard. Amazing story teller. However, people really need to calm down. Of course he's going to seem like the GOAT when he's currently putting out music. It's literally nothing like you've ever heard before, while Tupac still has the same song that's been playing for 2 decades. Obviously, the latter has been overplayed to hell, and as music evolves his stuff will continue to sound more and more outdated. However, clearly, it hasn't yet, even two decades later. And that's what makes people like Elvis, the Beatles, and even fucking Beethoven so great. Their music, their words, it stays even as times change. So that's why you can't call the guy who's currently pooping the GOAT. He has mad potential no doubt, but we don't know if it'll carry on for decades. A GOAT is someone that transcends, so that even people that don't care for the craft, know about this one person. We can appreciate Kendricks ability, and compare him to the recognized greats. But to call him a GOAT, it takes time, whether people like it or not.
John Doe man I️ feel you brotha, for real, yes it is so true that no matter how old an artists art is it will still hit you the same way it did 20 years ago, take Nas “if I️ ruled the world” I️ still get chills when I️ hear him start it on that track, all I’m tryin to say is I️ think it’s criminal to not include Kendrick in GOAT conversation because of his newness, feel me? People was sayin biggie was the GOAT after his first album and that convo still holds up today, all I’m sayin is I️ feel in 20 people will feel the same about Kendrick, not calling him the GoAT but definitely recognize his greatness, to me greatness is something that is pretty immediately recognizable and in MY opinion I️ recognized that back when he was k. Dot. Same for cole man I️ think his music will stand the test of time. Great comment and question though my brotha it’s questions like that that keep the heart of hip hop alive. Peace.
Mel came with the facts, that was a good answer
EVANS 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿
When you have 4 straight classics it's only like 3 rappers has done ✅
Dj Def kendrick is my favorite rapper ever but damn isnt a classic
Antonio Evans *yet
+Antonio Evans shits a classic to me. I can relate.
sief antoine its not a classic tho. We'll have to see 10-20+ years from now to see if his albums live the test of time
I say 2 maybe 3 to be considered a great rapper to me you gotta have three. and not alot do. I Def think kenny will get there tho
Nigga, I've listened to rap since the late 80's. TPAB was the best Rap album released in at least 2 decades.
***** I have to disagree with that too. I'll have to revisit The Blue Print. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is great, don't get me wrong, but what depth does it have? I'm a huge Ye fan, but MBDTF was fan service. Ye said it himself. In my opinion, Yeezus in all its imperfection is superior to MBDTF. The reason why is because to me, Yeezus is timeless. Also, Yeezus marked an era. Think about all the cultural change that started from that album. The Yeezus tour was arguably the Greatest rap concert of all-time. Digressing, MBDTF was entertaining and had great production, but TPAB was immersive. It pulled you into Blackness. It pulled you into the psyche of Kendrick, his depression ,self doubt, and the war within himself, along with speaking on the social climate of today and black people as a whole. My favorite track is U. How many rappers show you that level of insecurity? The album as a whole was cinematic. You couldn't just put it on and like the beat. It made you work to understand it and go through his journey. I didn't say it was the best just because I like Kendrick. I did because he put the level of detail into his album that it would take to write a great novel. I rapped as a kid, and I write as an adult. And I appreciate the album on all levels; as I black kid who grew up in the hood and experienced the poverty and racism etc, to an intelligent adult that lives a financially nice life and knows some shit about constructing a story. Kendrick is next level.
vinniboxer one of the best comments I've seen on a music thread in a long time. Very insightful and thought provoking.
Its Agile thanks.
Don Cheadle was the original Kung Fu Kenny
thanks for posting these!
WHO'S FAULT IS IT THERE ARE NO OTHER GOOD RAPPERS OUT THERE???? ( personal opinion I think there are a few rappers who can give kendrick a run for his money, js).
But Its not fair to discredit K.dots career or to say he is overrated due to his competition. Kendrick has stepped his game up and he has even called out other rappers to do the same and take their careers to the next level with his verse on control for example. Another example to debunk this idea that was present in the video, if a student receives an A on an exam and the other students fail the same exam you dont discredit the student with an A, you question the students who arent getting A's.
Giving kendrick Lamar competition will challenge and pressure him to make better music and that is an example of how good kendrick is. Does Kendrick not bring his A game on every TDE feature? Does Kendrick not kill every pop song feature hes on? Does Kendrick not kill every trap/hood feature hes on? Kendrick time and time again has proven how great of a rapper he. The discussion of K.dot being the best of all time should not be answered with "It's too early".
Midnight Menace pusha t
Midnight Menace make this comment top ! I Agree bruh
Midnight Menace bro I was thinking the same thing. So because of him being born later than Scarface or Pac, and everyone else around you sucking ass that can PREVENT you from being the GOAT regardless??? Then from an artistic standpoint, what's the point of trying to be the greatest? Lyrics alone are a collection of words... they don't change. How can lyrics not be compared to different eras?
thank you, this needs top comment
Midnight Menace and what rappers would that be? other than Em.
This is the wrongdude to have this debate with... old heads just don't wanna admit it Justin tried his best to make him understand his point so must he have to die in order to be called a goat who knows what Tupac would have been had he still been alive...Kendrick is our generations goat that's it's point blank period
Jesus Perez Im an old head and Kdot is definitely in the conversation. You CAN have the conversation with old heads who are not all in there feelings.
You're right I might of went too far with the old head part but this debate made me cringe it seemed like the kid who's getting beat at his own game so he starts making up rules as they go along
Kendrick is unmatched, no questions asked
Facts
Rude Jude is wrong on this one. I grew up on Rakim and Golden Era, Kendrick is far different and superior to every other rapper in the game right now. Rappers switched up styles before but nothing like this.
I like Scarface, but Kendrick > Scarface.
Am I the only one who thinks 4 great projects is good enough. You can't expect someone to make consistently great music for years and years on end. Both Nas and Jay have dropped off, Scarface included. Scarface is not even relevant today(not throwing shade) but it is the truth.
SpinToWin true but peep deeply rooted by scarface, that album was dope af
SpinToWin Jay-Z was never on
Deeply Rooted was and is the best album I've heard from anyone in the last two years. It's probably my favorite Scarface album and I used to think the Fix was his greatest album ever.....
"You look sick...i ain't mean to say that. I can see it in your face...you look like shit." lolololol
Fans today want a "legend" in there generation so badly that they'll downplay legends to exalt the current greats. Old heads have a tendency to hold onto nostalgia way too tightly
Darrel Be exactly both sides biased asf so we’ll never have an answer.
Darrel Be cause teenagers love garbage music
Michael c True, teenagers like trash music but there is substance to Kendrick's music especially To Pimp a Butterfly. I'm not saying he's top 5 yet. Even though you can definitely defend him for being so.
that point is over made
not true. stop trying to tear down this generation.
The black guy sounds like a white guy and the white guy sounds like a black guy lol I know that's ignorant to say, but ijs
Man are you that friggin rude dont say that
I said that exactly, and then your comment A year ago!! 😂😂💪💪
this makes no sense. he says kendrick is a great artist in a time where no other artists are good, so we cant say hes the goat. but why cant we compare him to the old rappers? i compare him to pac biggie nas everyone and i come to the result that no one is as good as kendrick lamar. he got the flow the message the lyrics everything. bye.
Servay preach preacher
Servay have you listened to those other rappers tho? Kendrick isn't the goat
ofc i have. i listened to alot of pac and biggie but they are by far not as lyrical or intelligent as kendrick. i also like kendricks flow the most but thats just my opinion. example: listen to kendrick's verse in ''that part remix'' and show me a verse of pac which is as complex.
Servay The second verse on Me Against The World. Dude the best bit is 'Pac ain't even trying to be lyrical, he's just trying to be accessible to let everybody hear, understand and feel his music, you can't even say 2Pac isn't intelligent.. Dude 2Pac was probably the most intelligent rapper ever, his endeavours, discography and his interviews show that, Kendrick himself wouldn't agree with your comment. But I do get what you're coming from, but you can't make statements like that lol.
i never said tupac was not intelligent :) and i just ment by the lyrics and the rhymes of kendrick lamar, you can see he is more intelligent in his raps then pac. even tho intelligent might be the wrong word, i would rather say eloquent.
K dot is finally getting all the props that he deserves
Andrea Amador Im glad thats the case. its sad when people wait till the greats are gone to show respect
People been saying it but after this album it's seriously being realized and debate about
This Kendrick Lamar debate was pretty far from great tbh
The biggest thing for me is that, Kendrick creates masterful albums. I cannot think of an artist who creates such in depth and cohesive albums as Kendrick. I understand I'm young, I've tried to listen to all the people these guys are referencing. But I am yet to find an album like GKMC or butterfly that tells a story as masterfully and intricately as Kendrick does. That's why he's my goat
Exactly my reason. Nothing compares to even gkmc. I know it's hyped but I don't think it's hyped enough.
Drake man I respect you and I'ma let you finish, but Kendrick is the Greatest Rapper of All Time 🐐
I prefer Ice-T especially with his direction with Body Count. Kendrick is a retread to me. Ice-T doesn't need to sample since he has a real band behind him. Ice-T has also branched out beyond the common themes of hip hop.
Ok, this question:
If Kendrick was killed tomorrow. Would he be the goat
Tom The Fish if tupac and biggie were around, would they be considered
Tom The Fish listen to mortal man
A White Guy good question
Antonio Evans I heard all of Kendrick's stuff.
Mortal Man, I could see being brought up a lot if he died
A White Guy that's a good question too. They'd be one of the old cats for sure, depends what other albums they'd made and it they stayed the same quality.
Snoop Dogg only made one classic album and the rest is hit or miss, so he ain't the goat
I appreciate Jude's consistency
I love these radio shows. You should post whole shows or something man.
Yo Justin.Love this radio spot.Jude is cool too.The Breakdown is doing crazy numbers and comments.This is growing too.
Thanks Justin! How you been man? Great to hear from you!
Kung Fu Kenny🔥🔥🔥
I'm so tired of people saying "Kendrick's not there yet." So at what point does he get there? Kendrick's made 5 classic albums (6, including O.D.). What else does he need to do?
Chris Ferguson your definition of classic are low then he
has 1 classic mabey another debatable album, 2 great albums, 1 alright albums
Nas (G.O.A.T) has 2 classics only mabey 3
2 great
2 good
Chris Ferguson 6 classic albums? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 People like you are literally the reason why Kendrick gets hated on.
Bro he's there
That's what great about music it's all subjective, YOU simply just know good music when YOU hear it so whoever is the best is your best
If this dude don't listen to rap anymore then why df is he having this conversation
Dudes who haven't actually heard his catalogue got a lot to say
what is medi credit where to check the website please i wanna the rating
I just realized this is the SAME conversation i was listening to on my way home yesterday lol.
Honestly there aren't that many rappers who have four essential albums. How many rappers are even commercially relevant after five commercial albums. I'm just saying.
Also, you're acting like Earl Sweatshirt isn't a couple years from being this generation's DOOM... talk about a rapper who's slept on - that man bodied everyone including Kendrick on Really Doe... everybody mcdonald gtfoh man
Random Songs From Vinyl that verse on really was easily the best of 2016
Don't overrate earl
He's not even half of what doom is in terms of artistry and creativity
He has just same style
zoro roronoa you’re crazy Earl is every bit the MC DOOM is. Earl can go bar fir bar with anyone period.
The reason I love Justin and Jude is Justin can look at every side and agree and Jude is so stuck in his ways he stubborn I love it. keep doing ya thang
Rude Jude is dope. Really gave something that made this conversation great.
we not even going to mention the fact that he kills every guest verse he is ever on?
He is the son of hip hop he combination of the best tupac,biggie,kurupt,rakim
Shawn Jones well said
I think the idea expressed by people nowadays saying that the older decades had more talent and competition, but in reality the rappers that are popular today are only built up that large because the masses don't prefer conscious good hip hop, and the great hip hop artists today that would've blown up in the past, today, aren't appreciated by the masses anymore
Untrue, people want conscious more than ever, atleast they want a counter balance to Drake's mainstreaming. Hip Hop has room for diversity, and the young people experimenting is good for hip hop
Nas released 1 good album and everyone was like " Nas is the fucking goat" Kendrick releases his 4th album of which 3 are some of the greatest rap albums ever and people be like"nah he is too young"
Jakob Weber Oh great, another person who is the reason why Kendrick gets hated on. Cheers.
Jakob Weber 😂😂😂😂😂 you are so right
he is too young in a game thats getting older and older, nas was young in a genre that was young.
The rap genre is too wide for there to be a goat. Who is the goat in rock, in blues, in country, in any other genre? Why can't we just enjoy the history that is being made at this time? We should just enjoy the genre. But that is just my opinion.
The First I agree.
The First the debate is part of the passion and joy
I dont agree. Kendrick is the best read my response why on the top
I feel like all you have to do is put any Kendrick album up against albums in the past and it still holds up. Don't just judge him based on his peers in the now, judge him on all who ever did it and trust me he still holds up. Four albums in and he's killing it. Making ground breaking moves and statements. Creating feelings and energy that is felt by so many across a diverse group of people. He has a way of doing what the greats in the past have always done. Make an audience of the listeners, their peers, the critics, and the key holder. Force them to pay attention. Kendrick does just that.
Major Progress that's the thing. Kendrick is HISTORICALLY competitive. If these albums came out in the 90s, they'd be revered as well.
Major Progress that's the thing. Kendrick is HISTORICALLY competitive. If these albums came out in the 90s, they'd be revered as well.
Major Progress that's the thing. Kendrick is HISTORICALLY competitive. If these albums came out in the 90s, they'd be revered as well.
Major Progress Major Progress that's the thing. Kendrick is HISTORICALLY competitive. If these albums came out in the 90s, they'd be revered as well.
HipHopDX I also give him props for still being ground breaking even when the competition is, so called, "weak". He is going to stand out obviously because he and his team are creating something exceptional. But knowing he doesn't have to raise the bar and could wade in the lazy rap river, if he wanted, album after album and probably still sell. The fact the he chooses not to do so is another sign of greatness. He's on his way to taking his place up there with the rest.
i was trying to listen to this other dude arguing kdot ain't the goat, i was really trying to hear it. but at 13 minutes he literally says he doesn't listen to hip hop. wtf you even doing on this channel then busta.
if you listened to Kendrick you'd know he's the goat or top 3
PickeringSamuel he's saying he doesn't listen to the shit they put out now because it's trash
but how can you say something trash and not listen to it?
Antonio Martin because like he said, all mumble shit sounds the exact same
Kendrick & J- Cole are my favorites in this era.
PickeringSamuel it's to damn early call him the goat WTF smfh
The second the counter argument simply becomes 'He needs more time', then the argument is over.
I think what needs to be set in stone with any discussion like this is, it's never not going to be an opinion. Even the point where you think they're the greatest due to accolades is, in itself, an opinion. There's no list of things that gives concrete evidence that you are "the best rapper ever" or even "best rapper alive". This also changes from person to person down to which rappers they have been exposed to. My personal opinion is that Kendrick is the best alive rn but I haven't been exposed to enough of the changes brought about by the 90s era of rap and hip hop to even know if he's close to being the greatest of all time, all I can say is he is one of the only rappers right now that I can listen to and not be disappointing with what I'm hearing 99% of the time.
So true, I think 2chainz is the best rapper ever to be alive, it's just a matter of opinion
My thing is that I understand older heads in their opinions some have turned their nose up to the new generation of music. Plenty of artists that are incredibly talented because you're forgetting about the rest of TDE for instance. Ab-Soul and Schoolboy are incredible in their own right.
Joey Bada$$, Earl Sweatshirt, J Cole, KRIT, Danny Brown, Denzel Curry, The Underachievers, YG is a like a modern day Spice-1/E-40/C-Bo combo...
I mean we have a depth of rappers this generation as well, but the thing is that all of the talent is buried under the mumble rappers.
Also, Justin could you do a video on Killer Mike dude? He's IMHO one of the best to do it, but without the accreditation until forming RTJ with EL-P.
this is the episode I've been waiting for
What happened to Stepbrothers 3? Why are there no mention?
I really like this show... akademiks/buddens is good too, but these two guys got a chemistry and interesting viewpoints.. i like both shows
It's hard to say now but time is the biggest aspect to determine how great u r. Kendrick is the closest in this generation to get into that elite class of GOAT 🐐 MCs. I believe 10 years he will be top 5 cuz we will have the time digest his legacy
This is awesome!!!
The white guy's sweater is one of the fuckin dopest pieces of clothing I've seen in weeks
this guy will only acknowledge Kendrick when Kendrick is dead
kirin he acknowledge him
I appreciate what you guys said about biggie I never understood that either.
I've been sleeping on this channel, damn.
When he said " I don't even listen to rap anymore " I ended watching this video lol
Not the greatest ever ,but definitely definitely top 5! Don't wait for the man to die before you praise him
If they swapped timeliness, people would be say Nas good but he ain't on that kendrick level yet (Not that I'm saying kendrick's better than nas)
karma delivery I used to say the GOAT was Nas and then number 2 was Kendrick, but with DAMN now I feel like Kendrick has enough music released that I can call him the GOAT!
Andrew Hedstrom I literally the same thing, but especially cause Nas is putting out a new album this year, I don't wanna say it just yet
Kendrick is better than Nas though. Nas only put together three great albums and admittedly the sweetest dis track anyone will ever hear. Kendrick is already four great albums in and unless he falls off similar to Nas next album he's got more on the way.
iiscd I mean now it's just preference, I'd say Nas is a better rapper than Kendrick, but it's extremely close
iiscd I think Illmatic, Stillmatic, God's Son, Street Disciple, Untitled, and Life Is Good are all great. Nas only bad album is I Am..., but none of those Nas albums are as good as TPAB.
Kendrick Lamar to Rap is what Lebron James is to the NBA.
Valued talents in an undervalued era of sports and music
nether one of you is wrong, great discussions like this will never end. very thought provoking
22:48 "YO...WHATS POPPIN......my bad that shit was lame"
😂😂😂😂😂
I dont think this is a weak era. Maybe not mid 90's, but the real weak era was between 90's rappers getting old and TDE coming up, so say 2005-2010. Hypes around Cassidy, Papoose and Saigon who never got much further than good mixtapes, but no good MUSIC.
Disagree with the argument that Kendrick is overrated due to lack of good competition. Rolling with the steak analogy its not like rap fans tried amazing steak but forgot how it tastes and now even a half decent steak tastes good. Those 90s albums are still there, we can try the original steak and compare it against the current steak (Kendrick) ANY time we want. Its not because other rappers are less talented he stands out, its because hes stands toe to toe with the greats regardless of raps current climate. Stop acting like we cant compare present and past like the past just disappeared.
Great debate, this is what hiphop journalism should be like. Have seen a few episodes of Joe Budden and Akademiks yelling at each other, compared to this it just seems ridicolous. Keep up the good work!
Great convo, much respect for bringing up Scarface and the influence of nostalgia