Cheap coilovers - a good option? (FM Live)
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2020
- Thinking of throwing some cheap coilovers on your Miata? Watch this first! This week on FM Live, Keith Tanner examines the pros and cons of cheap suspension kits.
Original live video recorded 7-23-20. Join us on Facebook every Thursday at 2:00 PM Mountain Time for new live content! This is a quick overview video to inform our customers, and is not intended to be a guide or installation tutorial of any kind.
Flyin' Miata is the world leader in Miata performance. We offer a wide range of parts for all years of the Mazda MX-5 Miata.
www.flyinmiata.com
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Keith: “I’m not going to name the brand”
Open MaXpeedingRods box on the floor: “Am I a joke to you?”
niiiice haha
This was a fantastic video. I looked soo much to find a real review on these.
On a street car I've always been a stickler for quality shocks Koni/Bilstein with lowered Springs over similar priced coil overs. This video just reaffirms my thinking.
Very informative love it
adjustable height is one of the benefits of coilovers. I have the flying miata springs and everything stock. They perform well but I wish i could drop the car 3/4" more
Precisely why I opted for Koni yellows with FM springs. Had no need for additional ride height adjustment. Very happy with my choice.
This is the set up I’m considering for my base 02 miata. Are there any downsides other than height adjustments for this set up. What do you run on your Koni’s ..full soft?
We recommend full soft for stock springs and higher numbers for the FM springs. The exact setting for each generation is in our instructions.
Yeah, I thing the dampening recommendations were like 3/4 turn or 75%. Its not a punishing ride at all.
Literally would love to here you talk about suspensions all day. Haha the amount of knowledge and obvious experience you have is awesome. Most peoppe wont listen though. Myself will be picki g up the vmaxx extremes in the very near future.
Also, cNbyou do a video on sway bars for the na/nb and if front reinforcements are necessary...tia.
Thanks Keith! Now you have me wondering if I set up my Tein Flex properly, and how bad is my E84 X1 M suspension. XD
I wish you guys came out with this video a few years back, would have been so informative on what I should've been looking out for. Luckily I ended up getting Ohlins DFV for my NB and I'm happy with the coilovers overall, but I definitely could've saved a few bucks going down Koni's or VMaxx. But I'm curious to find out how your Fox suspension handles.
Riight? Isn't it crazy how quickly a trendy but bad design can just takeover the market and blend in as a good mainstream option.
Love the work you guys done for the miata community! A well designed setup with good travel is extermely important. I had a set of raceland on a 98 impreza outback sport. (this is a daily I paid $1400 for, so don't judge me). Had it at a very standard height. Rear would bottom out soooo bad, it will bounce me up when i hit a speed bump. It never felt anything like that in a car before. Even on my much lowered Miata. The time and cost of unintsalling and returning wasn't worth it for me. It ruined the car, and I ended up selling it. The kid that bought the car loved it because he can slam it.
There is an advantage of adjustable height coilovers that also helps explain their success in this market segment - if you are a home mechanic you can install them and change springs etc on them and unload the spring more safely using basic tools, vs having to mess around with spring compressors. Especially the janky home ones.
Keith, around 13:00-13:30, where you talk about the rear dampers, and having the spring loose at full droop (when the damper is set for 13” ride height) - why wouldn’t you turn up the spring perch to have 0 pre-load on the spring, or even 1-2 mm, to keep the spring snug at full droop, and then extend the bottom damper mount in order to maintain the correct damper distance to retain your 13” ride height?
I'm glad I watched this.
I bought a set of TEIN Flex Zs 3 years ago for my Miata and have done about 60,000km (37,000mi) on them. In my experience they are great if all you want to do is to lower your car and drive on the street. However if you looking to do any track work they are not optimised at all, I find they really just can't handle the bumps at speed and the car almost behaves like a pogo stick.
Is that their reason behind the stiff rear spring to limit the short travel of the rear shock
I just bought 2019 toyota corolla Le Eco I want to suspension spring because I live in New York potholes and high road pavement kills your car. But which would be better suspension spring or coilover?
Great channel a lot of right information to the point.
Would a oem bilstein b8/koni sport be a good combo with a custom spring rate 8-10kilos max instead of a coilover?
Not just for miatas in general
That's too general a question to answer. It all depends on the valving of the shock. It has to be matched to the spring.
Did you put them on a shock dyno before they went to the recycling bin? That would be interesting to see, vs FM’s Fox suspension, FM Vmax, and the yellow and orange Konis.
We did not. We don't have a shock dyno and it was quite clear from driving the car that the shocks were badly underdamped.
Is Roll centre affected much by ride height?
Sad I decided to go with Ohlins over the Fox's for my ND... The "DFV" had me sold without knowing how big of a _true_ difference it makes to have droop travel. Wish I had another 2k laying around to switch.
I'm considering the same choice, thinking about going for ohlins for the same reasons as you. Why do you wish you went with fox?
MeisterR Zeta CRD is considered "cheap"? What's the difference with Ohlins R&T in street fun driving? Thanks
From my experiance weirdly the only car that these coilovers dont have these described issues is subarus. Owned a 1998 gen 2 liberty (Legacy for u guys) got these coilovers brand new (dont judge me XD) and overall, they improved the car, they felt good, none of the issues discussed here. A friend bought them for a Honda and they have the exact shock issues you described, none of the the rear geometry issues tho. Another friend got a pair for their Subaru, feels great no issues. I would NOT get them for my mx5 even if you were to pay me. But I think sharing this experiance is interesting. I have a feeling no research and development was conducted per car, maybe taken setting from one car (maybe a subaru?) and just gessing for other cars.
Why did Koni stop making a coil-over for the NA?
I actually just installed those orange eBay coilovers on my NA the other day. I just installed Hankook RS4 yesterday and now I’m convinced to ditch the coilovers and get some springs and shocks from you guys. I feel like I ruined the car with these crap coilovers.
These videos are great.
And sway bars.
@@daltonconder7 Sway bars are one of the best parts for the money you can do to a Miata in our opinion. We think you'll be much happier with some quality springs and shocks compared to the cheaper bay alternatives!
The important question I haven't seen yet. Say someone were to put the cheap coilovers on a $500 miata, does the extended rear top hat's you guys make work on them? I get on a clean car wanting to fork out lots on a nice suspension set up, however there are people that do want to lower and even upgrade from stock on a budget. Just couldn't justify spending $1000 on suspension for a $500 beater. I also didn't want to do a traditional shock because I do want to experiment with adjustability. In hindsight, I do wish I would have at least picked a coilover that had accounted for the need of an extended top hat to give full travel while being set at lower heights, such as Yonaka's race coilover for example.
I think you need to go back and watch the preload video he does. It explains it all extremely well. Pretty much two piece coilovers are a fast and furious marketing gimmick that usually lack the engineering advantages that performance shock and a lowering spring that could achieve. You could even say they are made to fail, which is a common review comment for any coilover I have seen under $1100. You mentioned adjustability, but a two piece coilover is faulty by design and lacks the basic fundamentals. In sum, if you want adjustability, you gotta pay for it.
JOM BLUELINE are getting really famous ...what would u ssay about those...whould love to ear
I rebuilt a lot of them it’s the best way to have a springs and hardware for a bargain here in Italy I pay 200 euros just for the springs
Have you guys tried out ohlins suspensions? Just like to know what you guys think about them since they are quite popular and comparable with the fox or KW's.
We certainly have and actually have a car in our fleet that runs on Ohlins as a reference. The Fox have more travel, more control at high speed and better ride quality overall in our opinion. Because we're so heavily involved in the design work of every suspension we sell, if we don't think something is as good as it could be we change it.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Hi, its that guy again... "better ride quality" depends on the application and options. I had the Fox Race (don't remember imperial units but it converted to ~10k/8k springs) on my NC and now I have Ohlins revalved for 12k/7k springs. The Ohlins ride considerably better. The reason I made the switch is because I test drove a car with the Ohlins setup when I had the Fox coilovers. The Fox Street prolly ride better, but certainly not the Race.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Do they have the Ohlins have the OEM rubber things installed on them, or spherical bearings top hats? I heard they ride better without the rubber because they interfere with the DFV activating properly and giving a smoother ride
Our complaints about the ride are not centered around "DFV activation" - they feel very good on a slow speed test around town. It's at higher speeds where the travel limitation becomes a problem and the chassis movement gets choppy. Rubber vs spherical is not a factor there.
Sorry they didn't work out for you. Your experience does not mirror ours, but we have only tested the Ohlins with stock valving. The Race was never intended as a plush street setup.
I have these didn’t but them but they came on my car and they’re leaking fluid after 500miles I’ve ordered some s3 suspension coils which were 1,300 compared to the 200-300 for the maxspeedingrods 😂
I know those are maxpeedingrod coilovers from the colors
Awesome video. I just recently got a NB1 with 100k miles on it and am FLABERGASTED how good that thing rides stock. I realllly want to lower the car and get the look I want (and use the wheel I want, apparently it needs a slimmer setup), but I am super afraid I will lose that amazing ride. I understand I will lose SOME of that ride, but still very scared to invest in a good set of coilovers/shock-springs. Looking at your FM V-Maxx Classic's. Do you feel like I will be happy with the ride quality? I don't mind road feel and tightness, I mind jarring.
The V-maxx are good, for the price, but if you don't need all that adjustability, you might be happier with our Koni setup and FM Springs. The V-maxx are pretty good, but the classics don't have damper adjustability, and can't be dialed in the way the Extreme, Fox and Koni kits can. The Koni's ride great, so the only thing you lose is the height adjustability. If you want both, so you can have more control over your ride height and quality, we recommend the V-Maxx Xxtreme Sport Coilovers or our Fox kit. If you need more info or have any specific questions, feel free to reach out to our customer support department directly via phone or email. They'll be happy to give you their impressions and all the info you need! :)
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thank you so very much for the reply. Very informative.
wait what happened to your cuscos?
What about the KYB AGX? How do they compare with the Koni yellows? How do they compare to the V Maxx?
We have a lot of experience with the AGX. Generally, we prefer the damping of the Koni.
The V-Maxx is aimed at a slightly different user - check one of our more recent videos for a rundown of the differences between the Koni and V-Maxx.
Well they can compete with Koni because Koni discontinued the Str.8 for my car :/ They also don't make a total kit. Also Maxspeeding Rods are the cheapest possible ebay ones. The next price/quality grades up would be like: Rev9 hyperstreet2 ~500$, godspeed mono ss 700$, then ksport 1000$, bc racing 1200$, then tein 1300$ then fortune auto 1600$ etc. Also there is a shortage of KYB quick stuts right now, the best quick struts available.
For a street driven car, say a turbo 1.6 Miata, what would be the motivating factors to go with a Koni sport setup and those purple mounts over the less expensing Vmaxx classics?
I recall a mention of 3 adjustable points in the konis but the website doesn’t mention this: what approximate heights do those sit at?
The Koni/FM setup has a better warranty, more overall travel and an edge in ride quality. The V-Maxx has more height adjustment options, higher spring rates and a lower price.
The Konis do have three perch heights, but we recommend using the upper one as that is the perch our springs are designed for. The top one is stock (non-Bilstein), the middle is slightly lower (stock Bilstein) and the lowest is about 3/4" lower than the top with a corresponding decrease in available compression travel.
Flyin' Miata so if one were to go with the Koni/Fm setup and decide to lower the perch it would be recommended to swap out the springs for something stiffer to keep off the bump stops?
I’m not sure if I want to lower my car or simply improve the ride from old stock bits, so I would like to have some measure of adjustability without breaking the bank but I rather like the idea of increased travel. You said you ride konis with stock springs? How’s that compare to the fm springs?
Thanks for the replies btw, you guys seem like an excellent source of honest info
@@BigStreams_ The FM springs are going to lower your car from stock. I'd recommend you start by checking to see what your current ride height is and then compare it to the FM spring ride height. We chose a good height that mixes aesthetics, low CG and maximum useful travel. There aren't really any off-the-shelf springs with higher rates. The good thing about the adjustable perches on the Konis is that you can always set them back again if you try the lower setup and didn't like it. If you DO decide to try the lower setup, I'd recommend using the purple mounts for sure.
The stock springs are considerably softer than the FM ones and the car moves around more because of it. It's a car that Keith inherited from his father, and his dad's needs were best met with this setup.
@@FlyinMiataVideo for light driving, would it be okay to use one of the lower settings?
@@dylanmonnier3559 No matter where you drive your car, there are bumps. Just be aware of what happens when you're driving around with less suspension travel. It's not going to destroy your car or anything, but it won't work as well as it could.
Thank I will only buy from Flyin' Miata
I run Tein Flex Z's and love them. So basically you're saying that If a cheap brand were to add 2 inches of travel to their shock. They'd be worth it?! lol. Great video.
That would certainly make them better than if they didn't add the travel. There's still the quality control and damping quality question.
100%. @@FlyinMiataVideo
I have a question. Are there any "cheap Chinese" coil overs that actually do compete with the brand names?
I actually have the SRT.T's on order, just wondering if you think there is something out there that is generic branded coilover.
The V-Maxx were an inexpensive setup that we tested and found to be acceptable with a bit of tweaking. We haven't come across anything else.
Mostplus*
They wouldn’t tell u cuz that would cut into their business
Meister's are cheap and good
I'm sure you have looked into it already but how's the xida race compare to the fox that you guys sells at the same price point
We're pretty happy with how they work in a direct comparison.
This is probably a dumb question but,
What happens if you design the coilovers with the body of the shock at the top instead of at the bottom? Would you be able to increase the travel if the body of the shock protrudes past the top mounts?
Basically designing an upside-down coilover, but significantly longer?
@@thunderbirdizations That's called an inverted shock. It doesn't really help increase travel because you still have the same limitation at each end, but it's used to decrease unsprung weight. Packaging it in the Miata can be a challenge because the springs end up interfering with the halfshafts in the back and the upper control arm in the front.
Another great video! I just bought a miata, so I'm new to the platform. It came with rev9 coilovers. I'd love to change them, but I'm stuck with them for now. As of now, the car sits too low and is bottoming out. I was going to ask you how I salvage these, but it sounds like I might be best off just selling them and seeing if I can find a used set of kyb, illuminas or koni's? I only plan to own the car for the next year while I finish restoring and modifying my CRX, and I'm trying to keep from putting more money into it than absolutely necessary (and to avoid the wrath of my wife). I also want to autocross it and maybe even take it to the track while I have it. It's going to be a great car to learn off, and I've already improved it by replacing the sparkly steering wheel and dildo looking shift knob. lol
We aren't fully familiar with the Rev9 coilovers, but if they are fully adjustable, you should be able to raise your ride height and adjust the damping to get a better ride and feel. They might not be what you want to stick with, but we recommend at least playing with the settings so you know what you like and what you need before throwing money at it. Feel free to give us a call if you have time, our CSR team will be happy to offer suggestions and help offer some directions for adjustment.
@@FlyinMiataVideo That's great! Thank you for your help! I'll definitely be giving you guys a call.
-Replacing the OEM Bilsteins on a 10,000km ND2 seems like a waste for a street car. What's your opinion about Coilover Conversion Kits which provides various spring weight choices and adjustability while retaining the OEM shocks?
The shocks need to be matched to the spring rates, so this may not be a very effective choice. The ND2 Bilsteins are well matched to the factory rates and will be underdamped for stiffer springs. It might save a few bucks but you'll pay for it in ride and handling quality.
A fm vmaxx shocks twin tubes or mono tubes?.
They're a twin tube.
Honda boiis togo setup Koni yellows with Ground control!
I love the information, but audio level tends to be low
Its easier to hear with headphones
Anyone have experience with the Gaz fixed height coilovers? meant to be a reputable make, but mine feel terrible.
We tested those years ago. The one thing I remember about them was a surprisingly high rear spring rate - the same at all four corners IIRC.
@@FlyinMiataVideo yes, that's exactly what I have found! it feels as if the rear is being thrown upwards over bumps. Its even there slightly after I have the dampers set to 4 on the rear and 7 on the front. Any tips to make it ride better?
@@flairfilmsUK That sort of behavior can be a result of running out of rear travel, so you might want to make sure you're not running too low and you have good bumpstops. It's also likely that you won't want a rear anti-roll bar to keep your handling balance reasonable.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thanks - the suspension is sitting pretty high and the bumpstops are new, it doesn't feel like its bottoming out at all... Maybe I'll try removing the rear ARB. Wish Gaz were more responsive, tried contacting them several times now. Might have to go for the Vmaxx instead...
@@flairfilmsUK The ARB will have an effect on handling balance but should not affect this behavior with the rear end hopping up.
You say the bumpstops are new, but you don't say what they are. And "pretty high" still may not be high enough depending on the spring rate. Or possibly it's TOO high - see our video on coil bind.
Thanks for the video .i was getting ready 2 pull the trigger and everything is on back order.😅😅😅 oh well
Hey, it's me, the dumbass who got the $234 adjustable coilovers. My fronts were blown, and I thought my rears were locked up. I was in desperate need for some new struts, and these were cheaper AND would lower my car. OR SO I THOUGHT. Rear maybe dropped and inch, the preload was all over the place when I got them AND one of the front shock piston rod nut things came loose and started to back off. It rides a little better now but it's still squeaky as hell. That could be all the original suspension bushings from 1993 though.
Learn from my mistakes and GET SOME DECENT SUSPENSION.
Thanks Professor Batshit. Good info
Do the vmaxx and Fox have same travel?
I'd have to check the drawings. They're pretty close.
@@FlyinMiataVideo how much travel is gonne be sacrificed with Vmaxx over Oem Showa and Koni?
@@mdki1996 Basically none. The V-Maxx is a one-piece shock that is correctly sized for the Miata.
@@FlyinMiataVideo which are the peculiarities of your Vmaxx other than different spring rates? Any difference in bump stops?
@@mdki1996 The spring rates are the biggest difference and they're pretty significant. Also, if you're in the US, ours are the only ones with a warranty since we're the only distributor for the Miata units in the country. There are some overseas vendors who try to hide their location, so be careful there.
How do you compete?? Price. Build a good product most of us can afford.
That's exactly what we do, but we'll never be able to compete on price with $200 coilovers with no quality control or engineering.
redeeming qualities: i dont have to leverage my parents mortage on them, im young so i can afford to break my spine a few times.
sign me up baby!
If we are going to be particular about descriptions regarding pillow block bearings then we should be referring to dampers as dampers and not 'shock absorbers' which they are not. The spring is the shock absorber, it stores (absorbs) and releases energy. The damper doesn't absorb anything, it simply damps the spring action.
well you know the old saying... " you buy cheap you buy twice"!!!!
Why wouldnt you carry the cheap coilovers as well? The coilovers in the video are mostplus * and I actually have a set on my daily driver miata 200 dollars* they perform great and lower the car for less than oe replacement shocks. I also have 1000+$ coilovers which do have better ride quality for sure (I bought them from flyin miata) but if you're just starting out modifying your car you likely wont have 1000+ to sink into a beat down na. The mostplus coilovers have held up to a beating so far so what's the issue?
The vmaxx (1000$) other coilovers I have are great and better quality but i would by the mostplus again honestly just because they essentially do the same thing! Slams the car handles way better than stock they just dont ride as well but you should expect that anyway if they are a 1/4 of the price
If you watch the video, you'll find out exactly why we don't carry them. They cannot "slam" the car due to geometry problems amongst other things. And they're not actually "mostplus", but the fact that you can't tell the difference says something right there!
@@FlyinMiataVideo I watched the video and the travel is pathetic on the "orange unbranded" but the lower stance giving the lower center of gravity is going to net a performance gain regardless. The only thing I disagree with you on is these certainly will slam your car I can email you pictures as evidence, honestly these go just as low as vmaxx but it gets to the point at which they become undrivable on rough roads. Also they do rust this is very true so treat them with a clear coat or sealer of some kind if you do buy organgies.
@@FecesPhantom The ones in the video cannot slam your car. The geometry simply doesn't allow it in the back. At 12.5" in the rear, you'd be solidly on the bumpstops at rest so that's as low as you could possibly go. The V-Maxx do indeed allow for a lower ride height.
@@FlyinMiataVideo you're misleading viewers with your bias, the chinese coilover is competitive with low end coilovers. I've put several thousands of miles on the orange 200 dollar coilovers (they're identical to the ones in the video). I have no affiliation with chinese factory x, just a normal dude. The vmaxx extreme I have on one of my other nas is definelty better as far as ride quality but they were over 1K. I'm not going to comment again because I dont want to measure dicks (mine is small like a boy) but it's ridiculous to write off a much cheaper alternative.
My BMW E36 rear suspension broke. It broke so much that the tyres rubbed on the guards so much it was impossible to drive. I survive on a disability support pension. I managed to save $375. I couldn't afford a cent more for OE replacements, V-Max, Teins, Bilstiens, superdoopers or whatever. I had just enough to buy Maxpeedingrods. My car is now drivable and I'm able to get to my appointments. What have I done wrong by doing this? According to you, everything. Perhaps lighten up a bit, hey? It ain't all bad.
We're a Miata performance shop, so our opinions are expressed from that viewpoint. Our standards are set a little higher than "able to move".
We're glad you were able to get your car up and running again, but we were able to find a set of four E36 Bilsteins for $369 shipped pretty easily.
Audio is still compromised.
It sounded fine to me, what are you experiencing?
Was okay for me, if rather quiet. Especially at the beginning
No issues here. Are you using speakers or headphones?
It's definitely improved, but we can't hear Travis, and Keith's coughs are crazy loud.
Keith's going to start repeating Travis' questions - that's a side effect of a mic that isolates the presenter and cuts out background noise. As for the coughing, sorry about that. That's a lot of talking...
It just says to me Koni etc....are charging way too much money for what they offer.
If you're only driving a Miata....who cares? Throw on a $300 set.
The stock parts are made for a mass market option, and for those of us who like smooth ride quality without losing the performance characteristics of a good suspension, there is a HUGE difference between cheap $300 suspension components and a good quality shock/spring or coilover setup. Drive them back to back, you'd be amazed at the difference, even in a Miata.
#ALIEXPRESS
Nice video but damn it’s long
So angry
Not a good option.
That's a much shorter version :)
LIES...