Buzz Saw and Belsaw: A Needed Touch Up
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2020
- A Dearborn buzz saw that was the subject of an 8 part series on conversion into a 3 point category 1 rig has been adapted for use as a stationary rig with remote power unit and driven by use of a flat belt. It's operation is exactly the same whether its powered by the right angle drive off the now dead 800 Ford or the PTO pully on the side of a different tractor....well....in theory anyway. The reality is the fact that it operates a bit better because of the increase in the diameter of the belt pully. The right angle drives pully is a bit smaller, but it is set up to deliver the arbor on the old saws at roughly 600 to 650 rpm through the wood. I haven't calculated it yet, but I'm guessing by the feel of it, the rpm is running 700 to 750 rpm. Is that bad...? Probably not too awful, but it is going to depend on the condition and type of bearings as to whether that increase is suggested or not.
If you have cheaper non-greaseable bearings, I would not recommend too much of an rpm increase. They have an expected life expectancy and chances are at their age, the increased rpm would signal an early death. If you have a higher quality grease able bearing set my suggestion is that it probably would not be too bad providing you keep good high quality grease in them. Some guys think grease is grease...but it is not. The suggestion is to pick the highest quality grease that doesn't lose its ability to stay in the bearing under heavy use, grease daily under heavy use and feel them occasionally to check for increased operating temperature.
For years I hand filed the blades following the process learned from the old man from late in the '50's on. Fast forward to about 25 years ago when a buddy offered this old Belsaw model 10452 grinding tool as a trade for an old International B Cultivision with a bad engine. The 'even' trade resulted in the grinder and the whole compliment of the accessories that go with it....well...I'm missing the chain saw sharpening attachment, but hey, I can sharpen scissors. I digress....well it sat in the corner of the shed collecting dust for more than two decades until this exact saw was converted a couple years ago to a three point system. It was time to drag the grinder out and try to figure out how to put it to use. And boy am I glad I did. It has certainly lightened the burden of not only reshaping and sharpening, but just touching up the blades as well. So much quicker and much more accurate maintaining the geometry of the teeth all the way around the blade. It kinda aggravates me to have not pulled it out of the corner 20 years ago.....
So the video is 'old hat' to some that follow my videos but it may be that a few find it nice to see for possibly the first time. And of course there's the professional sharpening guys out there that really know their stuff that may be chuckling a bit to themselves at all the mistakes made.... But that's ok, if doctors can 'practice' medicine, a guy like me can 'practice' sharpening buzz saw blades don't you think...?
This is by no means a 'How to' video, and its total expressed intent is to provide the viewer a few minutes of entertainment watching an old guy with old tools working on an old saw rig. Oh yeah...I am continually searching for input for improving the quality of the result of the sharpening process. So If you've a suggestion, feel free to pass information on in the comments because its not only me you'll be helping...you may inadvertently be aiding those that read your comment as well.
Happy sharpening to all !! - Zábava
Thank you for thinking of us in Canada great video always nice to watch and learn
Well Jacques, I find the more times the correlation between F and C is made the easier it is for me to commit to memory approximate temps without looking it up on a chart. But for some reason, there seems to be a good number of Canadian viewers and every one seem to be of the most pleasant nature....judging by their supportive and complimentary comments. So thank you for watching and taking the time to comment sir.
... and pretty much the rest of the world.
Very interesting video. Appreciate you making it. Always wondered how to sharpen the big circular blades
I have a couple other uploads on hand sharpening, tooth lay out and also using the Belsaw 10452 for the first time. Those may be interesting to you as well. Thanks Jeff for the interest and soon there'll be a video on spiking this into the ground and connecting to the tractor with the flat belt. czcams.com/play/PLk72G9DTzZ1vR5HU-MFrvAt8RCHx_nK5k.html This is a playlist of buzz saw sharpening and 'in action' videos to date. Feel free to peruse if time allows.
Once again interesting info I don’t think I’ll ever have a use for. Heck I may try to sharpen an old skil saw blade just for practice lol. Now lets get on to some sawdust making pole wood chopping. Take care brother.
Hahahaha...I'm editing the next video right now pinning it to the ground and cutting just a little to make sure it all works as it should. On another note, the straight faced tooth won't work too good on a hand held circular saw blade because those have to have more of a hook angle to move the sawdust generated at such a much higher rpm. It'll just plug up the teeth. LOL...but I know you were joking anyway. Take care buddy and don't work too hard !! I don't...
Wow. Excellent video thanks. That whole set up you have there certainly looks to make things more precise. And i now see the link to another video i'll look at. Cheers again
Hahahahaha....this layout is for a cross cut blade which is what most buzz saw blades are. A 'rip' blade has different angles and tooth configuration. Check this one out for a hand filing of one while still on the buzzsaw, then tell me what you think: czcams.com/video/ed8WSvOXvkw/video.html Thanks for checking out the buzz saw videos. Here's a monster playlist.. WARNING: You may burn out on buzz saws though by the time you watch them all: czcams.com/video/WmhUk52fMdk/video.html
@@tractorman4461 thanks that playlist has been saved (by me) so i'll be able to refer back to it, quickly. I'll watch them one by one. That way i can also allow for the info to be taken in thoroughly too. I'm the type who''l sometimes need to watch a video a time or two or three, before i can get to fully understand the details. I wont burn out. That right angle box looks like it would be a versatile set up
@@slimdusty6328 that right angle drive is salvaged off a late 50's or so John Deere hay conditioner. It's a1 to 1.1 ratio, so the output speed is 540 plus 54. Or roughly 600. The sheaves are both nominally 8'' so that means the arbor speed is 600 nominally, because their ratio is essentially 1 to 1. Standard pto output at wide open throttle on the old tractors is 540. The way to figure increase or reduction of rpm's is to take the input rpm times the diameter of the pully. Take that number and divide it by the diameter of the pully on the final drive or in this case the arbor shaft. That will equal the speed of the arbor. You can increase or decrease the final drive by adjusting the diameter of any pulley (or sheave) in the setup. You have to recalculate to keep track of the rpm change. Make sense ?
Hi Wendell! That’s quite an impressive process you go through to sharpen those big buzz saw blades! Looking forward to seeing that thing powered via belt! Thanks for sharing!
Martin...you know those comments we miss...?? There's a spam file in the comments in Studio and I found about 80 good comments in mine. Skimming through I saw several from you alone...!! Thanks for watching and I'm sure you knew about that already but I didn't. LOL
Hallo hawe muche for the machine
I need one pleeas helpe me
Good morning Wendel, nice to see the Buzz Saw in action. I have not processed any firewood the last 3 days alot of rain and other projects getting in the way. Take care buddy.
I had to stop the day after this was put in place for the test run because we too had a pretty wet three days. I cut only enough to make a video...and it started in about the time the tarp went on the tractor. Thanks for stopping by Mark...happy cutting buddy !!
What a great explanation! Thank you so much!
Thanks Eric for watching and making a cool comment to go along with it !! Different type blades sharpen at different angles, and this is as good as it needs to be for what it is we do in the woodpile. Some guys sharpen the back of the teeth to give it a 'negative' tooth angle because in crosscutting the negative angle (leaning back tooth) won't grab and want to 'roll' the wood out of your hand. But I have never had a situation where this style ever tried to do that. I've started helping my dad on the old buzz saw at home before I was even ten so I have 60+ years experience on them sawing tree branches and sawmill slabs and this tooth, to me, has a very good geometry. My dad learned from the old blacksmith my grandpa hired on the farm in the 19 teens through the 1930's/40's. The old timers did what was necessary to get the jobs done. Of course Dad had none of these fancy new tools and hand sharpened his whole life which is where I learned what he knew. He would also 'gum' the teeth on an old wood lathe with the blade hung horizontally on a chain. 'Gumming' is a term used for deepening the gullets of the individual teeth to an even depth to correct mis shapen teeth. Thanks again for watching and I hope this wasn't too long and boring.
This beats doing my trim table saws by hand 😅
With an old Belsaw like this one you can get any kind of grinding wheel imaginable for them. Even wheels for carbide. Yes, these are great to have in the shop !!
@tractorman4461
I use a Jockey Jig on a drill with a Diamond wheel for my 48" head saw.
Thanks for making this video, would love to see more!
Good evening Sir, Brrrr ! Now 3 C it is getting closer to Winter ! What you have lady finger for a hand ??? LOL !!! Great way to set up the sharping pattern ! Can't wait to see it in live action. Have a great Sunday Sir Cheers !!!
Heck yeah Dave, my hands are soft as a newborn baby's behind !! They are so soft I've even turned down Hollywoods lucrative offer to be a 'man-hand-actor' for expensive jewelery and other manly products adorned by rich guys. LOL
@@tractorman4461 Sir I'm laughing so much right now I' cant see anything,,,, LOL !!! Cheers and keep up the good spirits of your Sir !!!
@@RCAFpolarexpress Hahahaha....that's funny Dave. Have a wonderful day mon ami !!
After this vid I'm ready to go to the shop and sharpen my buzz saw,,,,except I don't have one! But if I did TM44 Friend I'd be doing it! S instead I am raising me evening cuppaJO your way in honor of that old buzz saw and your Old Man who taught you well. Aren't we fortunate to have had those willing to take the time to show us things we use all our lives? I am always grateful to have the skills to fix most anything! Perhaps surgeries are out of my range but I'd give it a good attempt. Cheaper too! And with every surgery a free cuppaJO! So good to have a 44vid for Saturday eve! So I need to replenish me cup to raise your way! A fine Sunday to you and Missus with many Blessings for all at44 Headquarters! DaveyJO outta heer
Well by golly DaveyJO...you should keep an eye peeled for a cheap one. One of mine was ran with one long V belt hooked to a five HP electric motor. I know a couple guys that use a side shaft 5 HP gas engine to run them too. Can't cut quite a fast as this one...but it works !! By dang if I'd just halfway paid attention, I coulda learned a lot more...but you know how kids are. I am glad though that I kept one eye open on occasion though. LOL. Take care my friend and I'll toast you a good hot one in the morning sir.
Tractorman44 A nice hot cuppaJO raised your way in the morning as well Friend Wendell! I often wonder what ever happened to he old buzz saw my Grandfather had on the farm. Somewhere I have a picture of he and my Uncle Gene at that old saw. My Grandmother loved that old dry standing chestnut to split into kindling for the cook stove. I even have the old settee that sat on their porch with a hatchet for splitting on the seat. It was painted many coats and my Mom had it refinished when I was a kid. It's a pine plank seat and all the stretchers, legs and arms are walnut. I have it in my shed for lack of room in the house. And the plants are in now so it's green inside the greenhouse, sunroom, Alice's studio and the kitchen. Greens are nice in winter when the snow and ice abound outside,,,,,if we have any snow! I think we had one huge snow at 11/2",,,,Whoopieeeee! So time for a snack and I bid you a cup raise inna morning! Blessings from my holler to yours! DaveyJO
@@daveyjoweaver5183 That'd be cool to see a snapshot out of the past with the old buzz saw. My Much Older Brother still has the one we grew up on. It was mounted on the front of a tractor and hinged down to the ground and tightened the belt as it hit the ground. Not a tilt top though. It is cool to have and use some of the old 'staples' used in the normal ways of life for the old timers ain't it. Right this minute dad's good hatchet as well as the hatchet of the old hobo, Herkimer are sitting right on my fireplace. Even the one the old man put a handle in for me as a kid 60 years ago...sitting right there. At the same time I'm tilting a cup of black stuff to the great NorthEast and toasting you 'uns down in your holler !! Have a warm day ol' buddy !!
Great video, I love the information on the buzz saws, Id love to find a saw sharpener like that. I have a dearborn saw I use on my 8n, I have another that is home made I plan to do a video later this winter
That's cool. I would love to see it so when you do please remember to let me know in a comment so I can check it out. About the Belsaw Sharpener keep an eye on FB Marketplace. I saw a fellow that listed a pile of stuff from a deceased family member that just wanted someone to take what they could use because it was going to the scrapyard. Of course it might not have been near you...but you never know. That happens more frequently than I realized too. facebook.com/groups/215796871946901/ This is in Maine and I don't think it was even the one I saw. Good luck with finding one.
Wendell, when "your" 63 Dodge has a 225 slant 6 in it I had a water pump shaft sheer and the fan put 2 slits in the hood. I don't think it did anything to the radiator. I was sitting at a stop light when it let go, so it was just at an idle. I can't imagine what would have happen it I had been going down the highway.
I've had water pump failures in the past, but this one that literally went through the radiator was the worst. The bad thing is the fan blade costs more than the water pump for the old Ford. Btw...who knew the 225 produced enough torque to do that much damage...LOL.
Gotta be a big lady to have lady fingers that large. Thanks for the vids! Always enjoy watching them.
Hahahaha... my hands ARE small compared to my Dad's. He hand milked the herd of Holsteins from the time he was a kid in the early 1900's. He and his brothers continued hand milking and delivering milk and cream to dozens of families in town through the early stages of WW 2 when the younger brothers all got drafted except him and one older brother. Ironically that was just a few years after they installed a DeLaval milking system in the barn. Long story to say his hands and fingers were large and thick with forearms hard as a rock. Thanks David for the comment !!
Great video TM. I have a Foley Belsaw Sharpall as well and love it. I've sharpened a few of my friends Woodsman's cordwood blades and reset the teeth. However, my old 1948 Farmall Cub saw has a Top bevel as well as a face bevel. Foley rigs had a small "step" bevel gauge spacer that could be placed under the back of the Tilting arbor to tilt the blade forward to get the Top bevel needed. I do not have that bevel gauge and wanted ask if you did? If so could you send me the dimensions so I could mill one? It looks like a tiny set of steps and is the width of the Saw arbor base arm. Thanks!
No Andrew I don't recognize the accessory as described but if I did, I would surely figure a way to get info to you. I think your blade may be a rip saw and not a cross cut.....?? The angle of the teeth on the rip saw are around 60 degrees and are faced on the back side of the tooth. Sorry I missed this comment...somehow it was sent to the spam file along with about 80 others.
As a professional saw filer I can say you are using that grinder properly. If possible you should set a stop for t he grinding stone so all of the gullets are the same depth.
I think on another video I show the depth stop on the front center of the Sharpall. I probably didn't properly show its adjustment on this particular video though. A lot of guys sharpen these to a negative hook angle and sharpen the backside of the teeth...which I never quite understood. Thanks Dan for chiming in with a comment.
That's one big combination wrench you've got there. Is that a 2" size nut?
Good eye Powrguy !! Dead on....2'' exactly. I think my Proto set goes to 2 7/8''. Thanks for watching and commenting sir.
Hey tractor man, how much wood can you cut between Sharpening? I know there's a lot of variables for a question like that. How much does it cost to have one sharpened if you aren't set up to diy?
You can cut a LOT between sharpenings !! These blades will cut easily through grit and dirt that would knock a chain saw out in a few dozen cuts. I've had good strings of wood product that was so clear I have gone as long as two whole seasons between sharpenings. But it was clear and clean wood. The more grit and dirt, the quicker it needs attention. I actually now try to touch 'em up at the beginning of each cutting season. You'll know when they need it though. When you have to apply more pressure than normal to cut.....its time. The shape of the teeth (tooth geometry) and depth of the gullet are really important to a good cutting blade. I've never paid to have one sharpened, because all you really need (if the teeth aren't buggered up bad) is a 10 or 12 inch flat file and a wedge shaped block of wood to sharpen them.
I used a Belsaw years ago , can figure out rake on tooth easier than that
This is the way I learned to lay out the teeth from my dad for regrinding freehand on the wood lathe. And yes I can do it easier too Eddie.
I have a woodsman buzz saw that needs a new collar and nut to hold the blade on. Any ideas of where I can get one????
Is it by chance a newer Vernont Woodsman..? If so, their parts department should be able to accommodate you. If its an older one like mine, your best bet is to keep searching marketplace for a parts machine. Many of the older ones have the same size arbors. You may even get lucky and find an old arbor with a blade mounted for a few bucks at an antique store. I've gotten some parts for some of my relics that way. Good luck with your search !!
I have had it for about 15 years so its older. Do you think a machinist could make a new collar?@@tractorman4461
Machine shop can make new ones
Hey tractor man you ever do blades for other people?
I have not, but there's no one near me with their own buzz saw that's needed me to.
@@tractorman4461 where abouts you from I’m in Maine
@@douglasthompson4047 Holy Smokes, You're almost in another country !! I'm in Missouri, so I'm not expecting a visit anytime soon...LOL The Missus recently said she wanted to vacation that direction because we always go north, south or west and never (N)east. She specifically mentioned Maine.
It’s a beautiful place to visit in the summer but it pretty cold and snow covered right now
@@douglasthompson4047 and boy o boy Douglas, I am not a fan of cold weather. I worked outside my whole career and have had enough of it !! (-;
44 learned something again they you can not teach a old dog new t
Hey Peter, good evening my friend. So many things are pretty easy if you break 'em down step by step !! Thanks for watching and stay warm tonight..... It's dropping pretty low.
HI 😊😊 the old wood saw blade years ago U had 2 sharpen W a flat file by hand and a saw blade at the sawmill was the same way 😮😮 until they the hand crank sharper 4 them they were faster 😊😊 now they have the electric saw sharper 4 the sawmill blades and its better alot of the old equipment U had 2 sharpen it W a flat file or a old wet stone hand crank sharper U had 2 a water 💦 😊 drip can 🥫 😊 that is a wet stone in town years ago there use 2 be a shop were U take things like that 2 have it sharpen 😊😊 OMG 4 22 2O24
We hand sharpened our 54'' inserted tooth mill blade all the time and swaged the bits from time to time too. We never had the hand crank. Too fanciful Clarence. Thanks for stopping in with additional input my friend.