Clincher Tyres On Hookless Rims - Is That Dangerous? - Road Bike Maintenance
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- Clincher Tyres On Hookless Rims - Is That Dangerous? - Road Bike Maintenance
There’s a lot of Tubeless Hate out there right now. Because of this, people are opting for the old fashioned clincher tyres and tubes…… and ditching their tubeless tyres. Too often I hear people say “Why would I want expensive heavy tubeless tyres, when I’m running inner-tubes?” Well, there is a very good reason, you may not have a choice.
In this video I discuss whether you can run a traditional non-tubeless clincher tyre on a hookless rim.
HUNT Clincher Quote:
help.huntbikewheels.com/suppo...
Continental Clincher Quote:
www.conti-tyres.co.uk/tyre-ri...
Peak Torque - Hookless - out of the shadows:
• Hookless - out of the ...
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Why anyone would want hookless rims is beyond me.
You ride them if they throw enough money after you. Can't think of any other reason. I'm not yet old enough to die so I stay with my hooked rims.
To be honest, some people don't realise they're doing it.
@@ribblevalleycyclist True. but, one of the reasons I bought my Cannondale super 6 recently was that it came with hooked rims. I've tried tubeless on my road bike twice & both have been a major disaster. More than happy with my standard rims/tyres & latex tubes.
All depends on your use case. MTB wheels have been hookless for a long time. Wide tires at low pressure (45-55 psi) and larger than the rim internal width, will be fine. I run 25mm internals, hookless with the STR's and Maxxis Refuse TR - all without issue. But pressures are low (below 55 psi) and larger size 30 & 32mm, which measure 32 and 35mm respectively on the rims. Problem is, as I have observed in my 45 years of riding with groups, people (riders) in general are pretty non-mechanical and fairly lackadaisical in their understanding of the tech on their bike. Most riders can barely fix a flat tire, and rely on their shop for everything. And many shops just do not (in past years) understand the hookless use cases. Other riders, buy the latest wheels they see on CZcams and just assume they'll work. All adds up to people who just do not know what they are doing, and a case of bike tech which is beyond the knowledge level of the customer.
For anything woder than 36mm they are great. For road, suicidal
Summed up, really well, why I wouldn’t ever want to buy hookless. It’s too limiting, you then have to buy very specific (usually the most expensive) tyres.
To be honest, some people don't realise they're doing it. Some peoples buying cycle looks like this.......'Are they carbon? Are they light? Is the freehub obnoxiously loud?' If it's a 'Yes' to all of those point, then they buy them.
It won't be long before every tubeless tire over 28mm is hookless compatible.
Not all tubeless tires are hard to fit. Recenetly I switched to tubeless for the first time and chose conti terra trail. No issue with fitting. I was able to get it on without tire levers. There was no problem with first inflating. Just sprayed a little bit of pure water on the bead and that was it. It sealed perfectly from the get go. But overall I am dissapointed with them - 4 microscopic punctures over 1500 km that the trezado sealant didn't seal. Considering the cost of the tires which are more expensive than tubed ones, the cost of sealant you have to periodically fill in and it's not cheap at all, tubless are not worth it. Sure, they are noticably lighter and accelerate faster due to less rolling mass, but for an average cyclist it's a pointless gain. The claimed advantage of running them on lower pressures compared to tubed tires is also questionable because although it's harder to puncutre or snake bite a tubless tire than tubed one, it is still possible and fixing or patching a tubless tire (if the repair knot does not work) is a mass and may not work so eventually you have to carry a spare tube as a last resort so what is the point of tubless anyway? Once I wear down these conti tires, I will go back to good old tubed tires.
And as for the hookless rims I think it's a devil's contraption with which the industry wants to force us to go tubeless. All the more these foam insert that are supposed to protect the tire from falling off the rim when deflated and which need to be replaced every 2k km are iidiotic. It's a solution for a problem that should not exist but was engineered on purpose, to drain out money out of our pockets for consumables that the need for was artificially created.
Very well put and informative. I have both hookless and hooked rims and have not had any issues touch wood. That said, I have always followed to guidance with tyre width and pressure for the hookless.
Exactly this ☝️. I too have both, and have enjoyed safe cycling, because I have both understood and followed the rules. The trouble is, many don't know those rules...... And why should they need to, they're just riding bikes. The industry should keep them safe!
Interesting and well presented video. Thanks
Thanks, Martin 👍
Although I personally believe that hookless rims are fine when used correctly with appropriate tubeless tires, I completely agree that there is too much room for them to be used inappropriately with clincher (or tubeless!) tires at higher pressures than they are designed for. This lack of poka-yoke (or mistake-proof design) presents a huge risk for consumers.
Said perfectly.
Clincher forever! Safe... light.... easy ....cheap!
I have the Conti GP5000 AS in 35mm tubeless on a hookless rim and it works perfectly so far. It's a light-gravel/all road setup
Hi Jon, loved the video which is quite relevant to me and others I'm sure!! Could you do a review of pressure gauge accuracy especially where hookless/ tubeless tyre pressures are so critical. I have three gauges, a topeak digital, a woowind battery powered and a good old fashioned manual!!
My tale,........I bought a Giant tcr last year, sadly with hookless rims!!! I hate tubeless start to finish, so ditched the sealant and Giant tubeless tyres for ride now tpu tubes and the correct tubeless tyres......... schwalbe pro one tle! Job done..........
no more pfaffing around with ruddy sealant every 6 months or more!!!! I must admit the tyres proved a pain to seat properly initially so consulted my local bike shop and hey presto with a bit of diluted blue fairy liquid seated a treat! I did a bit of research to make sure I could do the swop and this indicated a normal tyre would not be safe!! Btw I run all my wheels with 73 psi in them now.
Hi Aveedub,
Interesting tale indeed. Unfortunately, as I''m sure you know, Giant only offers hookless in their ranges. It's nice to see you did your research, and put the correct type of tyre on your bike. I think the trouble is, we're all used to running at roughly 90-110psi, so when we're told we mustn't exceed 73psi, we dice with death, and pump to the limit. Agreed, having an accurate gauge is a good idea, but even still, I don't think we should be running at 73psi. All it'd take is a bit of snot on the rim or a bit of oil in the bead when seating those tyres, and you've got a setup that won't hold back that maximum recommendation. I personally run 28's at 60psi........ but I'm an old slow git nowadays 🤣🤣🤣
The bigger question is, why would people even buy hookless? I like life.
To be honest, some people don't realise they're doing it. Some peoples buying cycle looks like this.......'Are they carbon? Are they light? Is the freehub obnoxiously loud?' If it's a 'Yes' to all of those point, then they buy them.
I'd rather pay for hookless wheels than get free hooked wheels. Love my daily drivers. Cheapo aliexpress 25mm internal rims(30mm deep) that I paid $250 all in for, I laced them to DT350 hubs and they're just over 1200g. 2-3 times a week(when it's not snowing), I'm descending HC climbs on them and the width with low pressure can't be beat, especially since those roads get so beat up in the winter.
@@veganpotterthevegan 😂😂😂 cheap aliexpress wheels and hookless? You got a death wish. I wouldn’t even buy hooked wheels from them
@BikeLife154 they have over 20k miles on them and I'm 90kg. No worries here at all. *Plenty of people buy wheels elsewhere that are made with rims from the same factory🙃 I'm probably going to buy some of their 34mm wide rims for my hardtail soon.
@@veganpotterthevegan anyway enjoy your riding. Stay safe!
I ran hookless for awhile. It was great but after having to clean the sealant out once I went back to tubes.
With TPU being so light i don’t see the need for my personal circumstance anymore.
Hookless has been fantastic for me on Gravel. Of course, my tire pressures are in the 30’s.
I have a giant TCR with hookless rims and no problem with these rims or tires. And all that talk about it being life-threatening is really BS. When disc brakes were introduced in professional cycling, it was not safe, etc. etc. And now look everyone is driving those things.
It’s not bs if the wrong tyre is used. The point in this video is the mis-information on some wheel makers websites with respect to tyre compatibility and also the ignorance of some riders as to maximum tyre pressure of hookless combos. Another question is if the wheel manufacturer and the TR tyre manufacturer state different recommended max pressure on a hookless set up, which one do you use? A friend of mine had some new enve hookless wheels and whilst he had the right tyres and tubeless fitted he told me the ride was really harsh, this was on a dogma. I check his tyres and he had 95psi in them! I immediately dropped them down to about 65psi and he was now comfortable but more importantly safe it would have been only a matter of time the tyres would have blown off the rims
What do you think about the mini hooks for example of the Shamal wheels from Campagnolo? Normally I‘d use Tubeless tires on my gravelbike. But on long journeys may be one day the tire is totally damaged and I have to buy a standard tire in case of emergency. Campa says you can use it. It could be so easy 🤪
You can use a normal tyre because Campag/Fulcrum have sensibly stuck with hooked rims, the great thing about them also is you do not need rim tape on their rims.
Thanks for explaining what hookless rims and clincher
No problem 👍
Besides slightly lower weight, and perhaps making the installation of tubeless tires easier on hookless wheels, can someone explain what are the other reasons/benefits of using hookless wheels?
The whole “weight saving” argument used by manufacturers is also such marketing BS. The weight saving from removing that small hook profile on a carbon rim must be tiny. Especially as you then have to fit heavier tubeless tyres anyway!
Fair point that I'm not going to disagree with!
The pressure limit is a big issues. For example, a 25mm hookless tyre effectively has a rider weight limit of about 73kg (11.5 stone)
Agreed, it is an issue. Hookless has a limit of 5bar/73psi.
I bet 80% of cyclists don't even know if they have hooked or hookless rims.
I've run clincher tyres on very loose hoked rims (Zipp 404) and on tight hookless rims (Velosa, chinese brand) and even ran Specialized turbo cotton's in tubeless mode (at 75psi, ran great) and had no issues.
You could as well argue that running any clincher tyre (can't accommodate a tyre foam liner) is stupidly dangerous (lose all control after pinch flat). Just as running tubeless w/o that liner. So much fear mongering, oh my.
I thought hookless road-bike rims (i.e., narrow) are risky for tubeless tires, too; they are only OK for MTB tires (i.e., wide rims). Check out Thomas De Gendt’s crash at the UAE Tour-he was riding a Zipp 353 NSW with a tubeless setup. That's why the high end manufacturers like Princeton, Roval, etc. have hooks for tubeless tires. Love your channel,amazing contentl, but partially disagree on this topic.
I think the average cyclist can use hookless, if set up correctly. I'm not sure it'd withstand the sideways load a pro rider with 'Special' tyres will put on it, but for the average Joe with the right tyres, it's fine. However, given the choice, I'd opt for a hook, because it makes more sense to have it, than not.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Not sure. If pro techs fail (they used tires that you can also buy from your shop), average riders will likely fail, too. Rim width/tire width ratio is the key for hookless setups (that's why MTB tires are OK). Agree on the hook, there is no disadvantage other then the a few grams and questionable aero resistance.
After watching this video, I immediately ran to HUNT's website to see if my SPRINT AERO WIDE wheelset and my Rim brake 4 SEASON AERO WIDE were hooked or hookless. Thank God that they both are hooked, but It would have been nice and would have made the video complete if He had mentioned that HUNT makes some models that are hookless and others that are hooked. Therefore I dislike the video; incomplete information that cause me an unnecessary panic attack
And if I had mentioned that HUNT makes some wheels that are hookless, and others that are hooked, what would you have then done? Exactly....... Fingers crossed you will one day recover from your unnecessary panic attack. Thanks 👍
Last year I bought hookless wheels and two sets of tyres, one being gp5000 clinchers. At that point in time, they were hookless compatible, because otherwise I wouldn't have ordered them. Also, we've used them on 3 wheelsets and nobody died. Also, Farsports absolutely make hooked rims as well as hookless. They'll make anything you want, you just got to ask by email.
The only GP5000 that Conti ever classified as hookless compatible are the STR's. Whoever you got the non STR's from as hookless compatible were either ignorant or made a potentially lethal mistake.
I think the main point to take onboard here is that hookless rims are potentially dangerous when combined with an incompatible tyre. The trouble is, many don't know those rules...... And why should they need to? They're just riding bikes. The industry should keep them safe!
@@ribblevalleycyclist this too much faff to consider and account for, just like with tubeless tires. With clincher tubed tires you only care about the tire and tube size as per ERTRO and that's it
@qwertyazerty2137 Agreed, clincher/tubes are a lot less ‘Faff’. But the counter argument to that is that I used to get, on average 6/8 punctures a year. 2022, 1. 2023, 0. 2024, 0……. so far……. But I’ve probably just gone and jinxed that now 😂😂😂
@@ribblevalleycyclist as with every opinion, it depends on your personal experience. I for example for years have been riding on my road bike or winter biker either with conti gp4000 23/25c or conti gatorskin 32c both tubed versions. Not a single puncture on the road or on the gravel. Just one pinch flat on a deep hole in the pavement and one puncture in the garage caused by a shifter cable thread lying on the floor. Mind you that I tortured these conti gatorskins in every weather conditions and surfaces - road, gravel, mud. These tires in particular are panzer and this what I care about. I don't care if the tire is fast or not. I also used cheap tires like cst pika 32c and got maybr like one puncture a year...
Great video, hookless rims are so, so dangerous when used incorrectly, which unfortunately is frequently. Great on MTB not so much on the road. I predict they will be banned for racing soon.
I think you may be right
Is Hunt a manufacturer? Surely they purchase generic rim from Taiwan and slap stickers on
hookless equals toothless🤐
HUNT 44 Aerodynamicist Carbon Disc Wheelset are HOOKED RIMS.
So?
You'll see the range of wheels being offered by HUNT contains less hookless rims nowadays. Can't imagine why that may be!!!!
It’s pretty simple just look for hooked or hookless rims. I have a pair of Hunts and they are hooked
There’s no way I’ll ever buy a set of hookless rims. I’ll stick to hooked, thanks!
The hook on a rim isn't what keeps on a tire
Not all hunt wheels are hookless their alloy wheels appear to be hooked
Yeah no shit, because alloy wheels cost the same to make regardless of whether they are hookless. Hookless exists purely as a cost saving measure in carbon manufacturing.
Agreed. This is because you can't make an alloy rim hookless, because it'd need to be about a centimetre thick! Additionally, you'll see the range of wheels being offered by HUNT contains less hookless rims nowadays. Can't imagine why that may be!!!!
If only people bothered reading instructions, eh. Continental are very clear about what is and what isn't hookless compatible. Granted, if you're new to cycling getting up to speed with all the compatibility nonsense is a pain in the back.
Their website contradicts itself. It says the GP5000S TR is the only hookless tyre, but it also says the GP5000 AS TR is hookless.
They're just riding bikes. The industry should keep them safe!
I ride tubelees tires for years never have a problem but never hocklees rims
Its baffled me that some big major brands can do proper tyres for they hookles wheels, aka Giant. SO if Giant can make hookles tyres why other tyre manafactures can't?
Giant has to, because all of their carbon wheels are hookless. The trouble with making a hookless compatible tyre, is that you're saying it's hookless compatible, and that statement has a risk.
Nice demo, but it doesn't answer simple observations like: what if fit IS tight on hookless + clincher - does it mean, the combo is safe? And vice versa, if Tubeless tyre on hooked rim flaps like crazy - is it safe to run? And how does hook prevents deflated tyre to go off the rim (answer - it doesn't)? You didn't answer that, so sadly video is not very logically laid out.
You're criticizing my video because I didn't answer something that it never set out to answer. I set out to explain that standard (non-tubeless) tyres should not be used on hookless rims. And that's what I did.
Folk not following guidance and having issues shocker!
100%highly dangerous I broke my ac joint of my shoulder 👌👏👍🙏
Your statement at 0:58 is misleading. People will interpret that as wheels from those companies are all hookless, which is not true.
Tubeless ready tyres are still "clincher" btw. It's clincher as opposed to tubular, not tubeless.
True that, but since most refer to tubed tyres as clinchers he's not misleading anyone there.
@@channul4887 I never said he was misleading anyone, the video as a whole is still sound, just using the wrong terminology.
@@thrawed mans on dat terminology ting, ugeddme.
So let's get this straight:
We had tyres that came on and off easily and were perfectly safe.
Now we have rims that need tightly fitted tubeless tyres that can be a nightmare to install and make things more conplicated by conpatibility issues.
Get this crap off the shelves immediately!
Absolutely zero issue mounting tubeless GP5000's onto Zipp 404's.
Fear mongering
@JoshuaTootell Agreed, no problem mounting them. However, the manufacturer tells you not to. But I’m sure you know best, and I’m just fear mongering.
and that is exactly what we could see with Pogacars front wheel in the 3. stage of the Giro - the moment he lost pressure at his front tire he road directly on his rim, and of course it slipped away. Thankfully that happened when he was riding slow, but imagine with this setup a puncture on an alpine descent🙈🙈🙈 I think the UCI should focus on safety and care about these things instead on such nonsense like color of bib shorts
Same thing would have happened with hooked clinchers(tubed or not). Same thing could happen with a flat tubular since they'd maybe give a false sense of confidence and he'd take the turn faster
@@veganpotterthevegan no! I have seen guys riding for some km on flat tubulars with much higher speed and nothing happened, I rode flat tubulars myself and they were good controllable. You can test it by yourself: take a hookless rim like this Enwe and a GP5000TT TR (or any other similar tire) - the moment you loose pressure you can take the tire off the rim with one finger without any effort. They are dangerous!
@filmevoncosima I've seen all kinds of things too. That doesn't really mean anything, they're just anecdotes. The two worst crashes of my career came from people rolling tubulars off their rims in front of me, neither were flats. That's still just an anecdote though.
*I have ENVE hookless rims, and Zipp hookless rims. It's tire to tire and wheel to wheel. Sometimes matching tires front and back don't even come off the same way.
*When a tire comes off too easily, I add a layer of tape. I've always done this with hookless and hooked rims...for road, mountain and gravel bikes.
Riding any hookless rim is dangerous
You guys try simple tire liners…like Mr tufffy. It works, stop following these silly trends.
There is nothing "old-fashioned" about clincher, any more than rim brakes are old-fashioned, They are both tried and tested technology since something like the 1940s. TV antennas have been about since the 1930s and still work today as well as since the 1930s. Most of this is marketing crap to get you to spend more money. Wake up!
I suspect we have differing opinions of what Old-fashioned’ means. I’ll assume you’re not from the same county as me, and it means something is outdated where you’re from.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Live in Bristol UK. Old-fashioned seems to imply an insult, not tried and tested and still works fine. There is an old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't understand why so many seem to suffer from do many punctures. The last deflation I had, well over a year ago, was a valve failure and cannot recall how long ago a normal puncture. Maybe Continental tyres have a secret!
of course it's dangerous. and crazy. do people really do it?
Unfortunately, yes. People don't know they're running hookless. They look at whats popular in the tyre world, and buy the size that matches their wheel!
7:00 You dont have a tube fitted in the P Zero.
I feel that this video stopped at a crucial point before an explanation as to why 'a hookless rims must run a tubelss tyre'. I am guessing that is it because tubeless tyres are made to tighter circumferable tolerance?
My Giant Defy has hookless wheels and Giant say that any tubeless ready tire can be used, provided they are run below 72psi. They also say that the tyre should be 28c upwards but there's no explantion why a 25c cant run below 72psi. Its all a bit of a mess so I'm sticking with Giant's own tyres for now, so there can be no finger pointing if I have a blowout.
I do, you can see it at 7:10, look for the Pirelli logo, and you'll see the valve.
Thought I explained it, sorry if it didn't make sense.
Personally, if a tyre states on it that it shouldn't be run on hookless, then I'm listening to the tyre manufacturer, after all, they know their tyres better than anyone else.
Hookless equals toothless.
I will never buy a hookless road wheel
Hookless are pointless!
Tubeless is nightmare to fit and to remove
That is rubbish "tecnology"
Hookless is just fundamentally wrong and stupid
Just buy shimano wheels , they are hooked and they are spectecular.
Don't know why i wasted my time here.
Tubeless and hookless, and the GP5000's on Zipp 404 FC's have been fine. I run 55 PSI max.