Ford Flathead Ignition Buyers Guide - From Stock To Race Magnetos!!!
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
- Recently Matt took a trip to Mason Racing Ignition to pick up his freshly rebuilt magneto for the 1933 Ford 3-Window build. While there Matt thought about all the added costs that come with running rare ignition that can be overlooked. Today we are going to talk about everything you need to know about Flathead Ignition. Matt covers stock ignition, drop in electronic dual point, dual coil, dual plug and magnetos. He also covers a majority of the vintage brands and what to look out for while buying, and talks about replacement parts. If you enjoyed this discussion please leave us a comment below about other topics we should cover!!
Mason Racing Ignitions - www.masonracingignitions.com/
Rare Ignition Thread - www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...
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Thanks Professor Matt for first period Distributor Sciences 101. A good rule of thumb for me is pick the one that will get you home! A stock distributor with spare parts in the glove box is a safe bet if you drive your car. Have had to be towed home before because I couldn't find parts for a performance distributor I was running. Like you said, Pertronix is a great upgrade and work slick.
Top topic Matt. I thoroughly enjoyed tonight’s show. Ian from Victoria, Australia.
Thank you for this video. My buddy is building his first 8ba and he is about at this point. I sent it to him before I even watched it
I Love your show,Thanks
Wow, I’m not into flat heads although I love the look of them. It’s amazing the ingenuity of people for the sake of more power. Great informative vid .
Thank you Professor for today's flathead ignition class. I took notes.
amazing video on stuff you guys have for the old cars
Hi Matt: Great video. Even tho I don't have a flat head I like to see these "How It Works" video's.
And I never gona build a flathead engine but it is intresting to learn how they done it in the old days.
Excellent Professor! great information, I appreciate it. Thanks Matt, Greetings from Argentina.
Just Excellent ! Thanks guys , Jim
The best flathead ignition rundown I have ever seen. Thanks.
Great video.
Lots of good information. I’m not a flathead guy. But great information for anything on ignitions. Keep up the great work and it’s a joy to watch what you do.
This and the recent frame video have really been good! Chock full of info and the 'small details' that add a lot- keep up the good work, and happy New Year Iron Trap 😃
Nice work on the video Mike ! Great information and presentation -and I am a Chevy guy and retired shop teacher Matt.
Matt and Mike thank you guys for another interesting and informative video ! Take care , stay safe and healthy with whatever you guys maybe doing next ! I heard Mike in the background and had to include him because he was most likely working the camera ! Doing well here in Kansas .
im a volvo guy, love my volvo 245. i will probably never own a flathead but i love listening to you talk about them and learning about them
Hey Matt, awesome video, as with most of your video's, I received a free education....keep this type of video coming, I have had buddies that were knocked on their butts by a high output ignition...God Bless!!!
Home-run Matt, lots of good info. Thanks a bunch for sharing. I’m going to have to watch it twice to absorb all that info.
-Juan in Virginia
Having worked on European cars in the '70s, Lucas was known as "The Prince of Darkness," for its reliability issues.
my 34 pickup (the dupont hotrod) has been running the same vertex mag on its scot supercharged 8ba since 1952. still runs great today!
The man is an encyclopedia. Awesome education.
Hey Matt, yeah cleaned many of points on the early ignition, but didn't know of any other pains out there. Thanks for the video
Hey, great crash course. Thanks.
This was great info. It cleared up a lot of flathead ignition mystery for me with all the different types available.
Thanks for watching!
I had a 49 ford coupe, 286 cu inch, back in 1962 that had the Mallory Mag Spark ignition ...I accidently touched the transformer when I was messing with engine while it running liked to blow me off the fender! I was 17 at the time with a sharp learning curve was real careful after that!
Very good video Matt! I found an old Scintilla for the 4-banger and I'm going to figure it out in the near future... 😉
Very good Show one of My Favorites , I had a Allis Chalmers WC from the 30s with the Magneto , in super cold weather it would start when nothing else would
Thanks Matt
Thanks, very interesting presentation
My experience is with 8BA only, I have a stock 8BA in a 49 F1 pickup and it works OK with all stock setup. I have another 8BA running on a test stand for a 31 coupe project, started it on a stock distributor. It will eventually have 2 Holley 94 carbs so will not play nice with the stock (vacuum advance only) distributor. With info from FordBarn and the HAMB I converted a SBC Accel dual point that is mechanical advance only. I installed in the engine on the stand and fired it up. It has a much crisper throttle response and the weird thing is it was louder!
Great info Matt thanks
Great video Matt! Thanks for pointing out the mechanical advance and impulse issue on a magneto because a locked magneto is no fun in a street car most were push started on the fire up lane (watch More American Graffiti) and were for WOT racing.
Great stuff in the shop
super info thx
I had a Merc 8CM with the cars original 1941 front distributor. I did well with Petronix in it but the installation required some machining. This system worked very well for me.
Great video. Since I'm keeping with a six volt system and the Holley 1900 Teapot on my 53 with the 8BA I am stuck with the stock distributor and vacuum timing system. I have added a Sorensen dual point conversion in the stock distributor. I like the Sorensen because it uses the stock points, just two sets of them.
Great video. Much needed info 😃😃😃😃 so cool thank you Steve
I found a Harman Collins 3 bolt to 2 bolt adapter to put a crab style dist. in my 1939 Ford 2 door sedan, standard. A friend of mine (a flathead and dist. guru) with a Sun dist. set it up for me. It works great!
Thanks Matt. That was informitive. It would be good to do one on timming a flathead. I have seen articles on how to time the early distributors on the bench. I'm sure you are aware if the timming on a flathead is not correct you will have cooling issues. Sich a video I'm sure would help a lot of people.
I remember they were a pain in the ass to change or adjust points as you had to remove them from the car and set them up with a degree wheel and test light, adjusting timing was another pain in the ass
Thank you so much for this loved it. 😎
Interesting subject. . . Great video!
On the tractor magnetos and slow cranking, I have an '51 Farmall Cub tractor with an International Harvester magneto. It came factory where you could start the flathead 4 cylinder engine with either the 6 volt electric starter or the hand crank. With the hand crank, I've never had to pull it more than 2 or 3 tries and it fires right up.
I helped someone repair a mag, it had stripped a gear. The output voltage of the mag at a given rpm was listed on the mag. We put it on a lathe to spin it up to the rated rpm, it was like 1200 so the lathe could do it and we knew it was fairly accurate and then checked to see if the mag was worth buying the parts. It worked fine and the gear was available and not expensive at all. It is the only time I ever messed with one, they are not some hard to work on thing. It was on a 4 cylinder tractor but as you said all those were from one manufacturer. I thought it would be hard to find parts for but we found the part easily. I know nothing about automobile mags, but on that one the rated out put of the mag was stamped on a tag on the mag.
My father worked with Kong Jackson in the late forties at Elgin. Had his dual carb set up un his 53 Chevy.
That standard Ford loadamatic on the the 8ba is such a pain in the arse with not having mechanical advance. You get better performance at part throttle than nailing it wide open ive always found.
great info
Interesting. Thanks to share.
great video matt, thank you!
If you had some original parts, even if broken, you could recreate them in cad pretty easily and 3D print them. I would think that ABS or even a carbon fiber filament would be at least as good as Bakelite. And they would cost a buck or two in material to make.
Lucas - The prince of darkness!
Agreed - maybe because they were on Pilots (UK V8) so a little oddball
All pommy cars had those pieces of crap
Thanks for sharing a friend from Canada Rob ✌😎
Learning to set up and tune a "Grasshopper" distributor was a rite-of-passage thing for hot rodders around SoCal.
I am talking about running 1948-52 water pumps with the top hole on them blocked off .
Speedway sells the OFFY timing covers for the Joe Hunt mags cheep, you can also use a Mallory mini-mag lots of those around and they look cool
There was a guy named Pounden that built and restored magnetos. It was in Sebastopol California. Just south of where I live. There was a foot square sign on the road by his driveway. He has been gone for awhile now, sadly.
SPARKING VIDEO. Thanks. #STAYSAFE
Stomberg has a drop in 6v pos ground electronic distributor that takes remote coil for early 3 bolt divers helmet motors, got one on 1935 21 stud , works beautiful.
My buddy has a duel tractor mag setup. It's got two f4 tractor magnetos on it.
Thank's for the video. As i have been told the plan for the Divers type distributors. was that the customer would come in with ignition problems, the mechanic would swap it out for an overhauled one. And the customer would be driving again within a short time. The the mechanic could then overhaul the broken one in the evening. Regarding The Lucas Dizzy it was probably used in Allard's, but it was built for stationary engines, and it uses only mechanical advance. The interesting (good) thing with them is that they have only four lobes. Allowing them to revving up to 6500 rpm without problems. They use special point's with a wider foot that can be hard to find. Lucas Also built a double breaker distributor with vacuum-brake and a crab looking cap, But it has eight lobes and the points differ. I have used a Chevy Six capacitor instead of the Lucas one, that quite often give up. Been using the Lucas in front and a Bosch in the back, on my German G29T Flathed with repro Elco Twin heads in my 33 Roadster for five years now. Works great www.brandow.eu/ford33/upd8/30.jpg. Finally the Ford 8BA distributor use the vacuum differnce over and under the throttle plate, So if yo swap to two or more carbs it will not work properly, no mecanical advance at all in the 8BA Dizzy. Will stop ranting now :-)
Here is the inside of an Lucas showing the four lobes. www.brandow.eu/ford33/upd3/21.JPG
It might have been said in the comments already, but the early H&C crab dual were modified Ford distributors. Can even see the grind marks on every second cam lobe.
Great topic Matt! I have a early vertex mag- F Grizwald. On a angle drive on my flathead that probably needs new magnets by now. I have been very hesitant to let it out of my site for a rebuild, so I'm glad you gave a name of a reputable person I can consider sending it to.
Matt- Mojo Speed Shop and Lounge
Just send that sucker here I’ll take care of it! Haha
@@IronTrapGarage yeah I guess I should have ended that comment with " and getting it back safely" lol
As you say the dissys that are easier for parts. Twin points can be better, two sparks per stroke is better than one.
Though the most modern way is either an electronic triggering a Multispark box. 12Volt system is required.
Though who uses 6volt these days?
While not a great Pertronix fan for a fairly standard engine they offer a good deal better spark. Both ways can use a standard look dissy.
For no advance distributors the way to start them is have an extra ign switch, get the engine cranking then turn on the ign. You can also get the oil pressure up before starting. Win win!! Something I have used for decades on race cars. Of any make. Though more motorsport application. Though cranking up oil pressure alone makes it a good idea
That coupe tho 😎🥰
BITD (back in the day) we ran a "pancake/crab" distributor that came from a military I believe application. Very hot spark, started on first spin, and had an easily adjustable timing slot. Not sure exactly where it came from but really woke up our circle burner 59 ac Canadian engines. This was in New England and never saw another one. ??????
Great info, very informative. 🇦🇺🇦🇺
You mentioned dual spark plus heads - I understand that the Hogan heads from New Zealand are being re-manufactured now
Can you do a short clip on cams and heads, and maybe old vs new, maybe budget setups for beginners. I don't own anything old YET, but I have been getting more interested since I found your channel, and a couple others. My father owned, and raced several '49 and '50 fords that were flathead powered, in the late '50 to mid '60's I think I might be able to track down a old set of his heads, and a 2x2 intake he gave to a friend when got away from flatheads. Hello from Duncannon, Pa.
Great idea! We’ll do one soon on that!
The WICO mag's do indeed have the "impulse" for cranking over slow, I don't recall ever seeing a self contained mag that didn't?
i very cool
I live in Turlock!
It's interesting that the right-angle drives and tractor magneto drives aren't being reproduced. It looks like all they are is a metal housing and gears.
Please create a video installing a helmet distributor all the electrical system.
Can you use a 8ba distributor and timing cover on a 59A-B block.I know the water pumps are different but can you block off the top hole on the pump and have it work?
Matt-had a lot of Vertex mags apart and never ran into the spring-back[impulse coupling] that you mention?Is it part of the flathead base possibly?I've had Vertex for chev,olds,mopar etc but never for a flathead.On the other side I always run into impulse coupling on tractor mags??The other thing to mention is the narrow plug gap you need to run on a Vertex[.022Love all your videos!!
standard part of a Vertex rebuild used to be re-magnitizing the magnets-most builders now put in a rare-earth magnet eliminating that need-mag rotation can be easily changed by the re builder. DONT ever hook voltage up to the ground post on the mag-instant fried coil!
Do you watch the old movies from the 30 40 50s to look at vintage stuff?
What plug wires should I use on my 46 Flathead, I’m putting a Pertronix kit in it? Thanks
"Joseph Lucas, Prince of Darkness" We grew up with Lucas products out here in NZ. Most of the British cars from the 40s onward. Clever stuff. the Lucas distributor on the old minis directly behind the grille. Every time it rains the car stops. So it was common to have a sheet of aluminum or plywood wired to the back of the is grille to stop the rain soaking the distributor. LOL Any sentence with the words electronic and lucas in is going to be a fail. The The last of the xj jags being nightmare of fix and fail. Any how that was interesting. There is a lot to know about these old flatheads.
I have several of those divers helmet style aluminum housings and some caps I would like to sell but have no idea what they are worth
Have any tips for a magneto for a banger motor?
Why do the English drink warm beer. Lucas makes fridges. Memories from my 1969 MGB days.
Sold a ton of crab cap they were used a lot on v8 boat engines
My head is dizzy with all that information...!!
good pun
For any ignition to function properly Model A frame horns are needed ahead of the '34 crossmember!
This is a 'what if' question, can coil packs could produce a quirkie vintage appearance? I am a tool maker, not an ignition engineer, don't understand any systems. Ford's 4 tower DIS assemblies have tall towers for the sparkplug wire boots, 4 mounting bolts in corner locations. Simple brackets could be constructed to pair them or individual. The Model T had 2 rows of 4 firewall holes to clear the ignition leads. Crown Vic and 4 cylinder 2.0 L used them sometimes in pairs, my '94 Ranger used a pair for dual ignition on the little 4 cylinder. Somewhere an electronics disc (sensor) would be needed for timing, advance and retard? MSD makes a lower more modern assembly.
I can see the wires entering a loom on each cylinder bank from finned aluminum brackets.
Great information if you're running a flatty. Also I think Joe Hunt makes a mag look alike electronic distributor for the late model flat head that runs around $600 new. They are pricey but you get the mag look with the electronic convenience.
THEY ARE JUNK!!!!!!!!
Could be, I've never ran one of Joe Hunt's electronic conversions, but I have ran a few of his mags and found them to be top notch. Over the years I have also sent several magnetos to Joe Hunt for service and never had a problem with them. @@billbabcock6324
If you change to an electronic conversion do you need different plug wires?
Not specifically. It’s more on magnetos you need solid core wires
This seems backwards to me. I've never seen a vertex with an impulse, but I've never seen a Wico without one. Am I wrong?
interesting- maybe
hi very interesting. the trouble with lucas is there quality control or lack there of, they where built down to a price. it is wly in england joe lucas is know as the prince of darkness
That thumbnail !!! Haha. Every man's expression on a desired parts pile. Unless the wife is looking. 😬
Sounds to me is a 8ba is the best choice
No wooden box coils? Model T life.
Old magnetos use to be used for illegal fishing ! It was called dialing up fish ! Anyways it's illegal in Kansas and I believe in North Dakota as well ! Don't ask how I know as I won't say how I know ! 😆 🤣 😂
Do you know of any shops that still modify distributors for retrofit?
Does Bubbas ignition still do the recurved chevy ones?
I think Bubba’s is mostly retired. I know he was having health issues causing him to cease incoming work
@@IronTrapGarage I tried reaching to him a 5 or 6 times in 2020 via phone and email with no luck.
@@IronTrapGarage couldnt remember if id seen that on Ford Barn or not
all this info to take in is making dizzy
I have a Pounden mag on a V8 60 midget.
I just sold a V8-60 midget engine with a Barker V drive.
If anyone is interested I have one Barker V drive for sale,
Mm,
Did you fart 💨 at 2.07 ???