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The Magnificent Magneto
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Magnetos are plentiful in farm equipment. Here in Finland lot's of old small combine harvesters had VW aircooled industrial engines with a magneto.
You are a hundred percent correct
Same here in the states on the older tractors.
When I got serious about anything mechanical, at about ten, I began paling around the garage with my dad. One of my earliest lessons was being told to hold a specific wire while holding on to the frame of the bike with another. Dad gave the Norton a kick and I have no doubt my hair stood up. After which me dad says "Now you know to never do that"
It worked.
When I was a teenager, my friends father had a midget racer he was running in PA. They wound up with too much oil in it and the Chevy II engine packed up so they took it apart in the basement. We were checking out the parts and I picked up the magneto and gave the gear a spin, ZAP, I will not forget that!
UT I got a distributor curved in like 2004 by an 80 year old man. He just got done curving a mag and he asked me to hold it just like Dallas and then spun it on me. He laughed so hard I thought he was going to piss him self....
Ha, our small engines teacher in high school did something similar. Before disassembly, we tested the engines for spark. He'd have half the class hold the plug wire near the plug while the other half pulled the engines over. Right on cue, half of us got simultaneously shocked. He grinned from ear to ear.
😄😄😄😄👍🏼👍🏼
I used to mess with old lawnmower engines as a kid, built a 5 HP Briggs for a minibike. Briggs had the solid state mag out on market then. I remember pulling a spark plug on a running engine to shut er down. MAN I got poked. Arm hurt for a while after, lol. I think it was a 40,000 volt spark? Can't remember
If you think that hurts I was looking for a dead cylinder on my Firebird with an MSD set up on it and the biggest coil I could find. I went to reconnect the plug wire and my zipper on my jeans arcked to the car lol
My shop teacher used to get kids with motorcycles. He would go when they werent looking at take the plug cap off and draw a thick line on the porcelain from the terminal down to the body of the spark plug with lead pencil. And when they went to start them , it was no bueno.. LOL, they kicked and kicked and wouldnt find the prank until they pulled half the bike apart
Back to when they designed parts that last
The mags I was familiar with, Vertex, went to full advance at around 400 rpm. The retarder, usually 12-15 degrees, was so that the engine could be started, then it went to a fixed advance.
Perfect, especially for pull or kick starting.
Thank you 👍
I took a aviation history class as an elective in high school and its amazing how much airplane tech found its way onto the drag strip those 18 year old who flew fighter planes over German picked up alot of knowledge and reapplied it
My son in air cadets learned about magneto. They are still used in air planes. Wico still makes magneto for old tractors.
Almost all recip aircraft are still mag powered, its time tested and very well proven. Starting to get more electronic ignitions now, especially in experimental craft.
What I always liked about aircraft mags were the impulse coupling design. Usually just one mag of the two has it. Spring loaded cam that snaps the mag over at a set point giving a good hot spark with little to no rotation of the engine 👌. If the engine had some prime, you can literally tap the prop around by bumping it and once the impulse coupling snaps over it could start! It also makes it more hazardous to work on if a mag is mistakenly live.
Yeah mags are very reliable model t ran of a magneto attached to the flywheel ive seen them almost a 100 years later still working
Look at all the overhead cam and multi-valve technology in todays passenger car engines - that stuff is straight from WWII aircraft....
@@Motor-City-Mike right, people now marvel at these new cars and there technology like its a new invention when its not its been around for along time
Great explanation, I wish we had a way to put them in new cars and get rid of the computer nonsense,
ElectroBOOM would be proud of these guys feeling the power of High Voltage AC through their bodies lol
ElectroBOOM is great, always a good laugh.
In the late 60's I used to hang out at Eliminator Speed shop on Atlantic Ave in Woodhaven Queens. The guys there hooked up a magneto to the aluminum trim on the counter and every once in a while when you were not expecting it you got bit by it. They only did it to the regulars who knew about and we all had a good laugh when one of us got it.
Back when I was about 11 years old Dad took me out to S.I.R. to watch the races. And being the inquisitive young lad I was at the time. I asked him, why are they pushing the cars to start them don't they have starters? Dad working at Alaska Airlines for many years enlighten me on the magic of magnetos. And he told me to look for the cars that had the push bars on the back. That's a general clue that the car has a magneto. I was just starting to figure out the basic Kettering ignition system, and now you throw Magneto's at me? Great explanation on it Tony, and it's not every day you can get someone with the old magneto trick anymore. Yeah it's good. Had that pulled on me once. And only once.
Near an engine and anyone says , here hold this ! Yeah I'm not an electrician !
When I was a kid we used to charge up condensers and play catch with unsuspecting friends.
😆😆
I remember reading in a car mag back in the sixties that said the only thing you replaced on a magneto was the engine block.
Your not a true gear head until you've been "bit" by a Magneto ⚡⚡
Worked a little bit on a vintage (1959) hydroplane with a 360 cid. Chevy sprint car engine. Dry sump, 14.5/1 compression, Brodix, Hillborn injection on methanol. Engine in backwards and the prop was direct drive straight from the front of the crank snout, no balancer. Couldn't push start the boat so it had battery/starter setup, but used the Vertex magneto. Very fast wooden hull boat. 160 mph. Lots of fun!
Tony got a "charge" outta that mag!!
Lol reminds me of the old lawn mower ignition pranks. 👍😨😈
Same principle.
Gotta be the coolest velocity stack ever.
Uncle Sam WANTS YOU to KILL TIRES.
I was taught the major benefit of the mag was high sustained RPM. Where points fall off in voltage the mag is still going strong.
I like when people hold them in their hand and spin the drive!
My old 1956 Triumph had a magneto and it was so reliable even though the Lucas electrical system was crap.
1/4 turn of a mag for a farmall f20 (1932-39) about knocked me on my ass.
Knew a couple guys who rebuilt them, one had a contraption for remagnetizing the magnets.
I felt like he read my mind when he covered up that distributor hole when Tony was taking that apart! LOL
Allen (my friend) and I were at a high performance shop in Grand Rapids mi. That had a used speed part section. He picked up a mag and spun it before I could warn him. He threw it down so hard I STILL cant believe he didn't break the glass topped display case! His eyes were the size of dinner plates! Another good shock to be had is from a old model T coil. A guy i worked with would wire up another guys toolbox with a charged T coil so when you put your key on the tool box it would ground out and you would get a rather nasty poke! Very funny.....when it isnt happening to you! (Ask me how I know)
Magnetos are still used on piston engine aircraft. Two of them, for reliability.
Having two is also used for more complete combustion..
@@joetroyner kinda hard to blow out a combined 8-10A of 30-40k spark action no matter how many inches of manifold pressure you’re pushing through an engine…probably even if your plugs are fouled!
@@samsonian I'm not sure if you're commenting on reliability or performance. What I can tell you is during a 1700 rpm runup before takeoff, we check both mags by turning each side off one at a time. There is a noticable difference in performance on one mag, usually between 85-125 drop in rpm. As far as reliability, they do fail from time to time, that's why we look for the drop of rpm when we turn each side off, it's to make sure we're not running on only one good mag..
@@joetroyner both…but the part about manifold pressure and continuing to run even if the plugs get fouled has more to do with what little I know about WWII fighters and bombers and the robustness of running twin magneto setups on each power plant. I don’t pretend to be very knowledgeable about the actual nuts-and-bolts everyday running of a prop plane, even if I am somewhat obsessed with radial-powered DHC-2s I’ll likely never get to do more than ride in. Thanks for the granular input, amazing how such simple and time-worn technology can continue to be as- or even more-viable in certain applications than the newest and shiniest!
@@samsonian I see what you're saying now. Some newer aircraft are using electronic ignition, but most pilots don't really trust it. That may change, but in the meantime I'm happy with robust, time tested equipment. When the plugs are fouled, we just lean out the mixture at high RPM on the ground which raises temps, burns off any carbon, and the engine wakes back up in about a minute. You can't do with your car! Also, the Beaver on floats in the mountains is a dream retirement goal for me!!
The old supercharged grand prix cars from the 1930's ran a twin magneto set up. Such a great ignition system.
I'll admit I never thought I'd see Mag talk on this channel, very awesome. I love my old tractors with mags and hand start. They can sit for months, no need to worry about a battery, just go over turn on the gas and crank and they fire right up. Simple technology that many (including me) have lost the ability to fix without finding a specialist, though I can at least clean and set the points if need be haha. My old rigs don't even have a kill switch, just shut off the fuel and wait for it to run out!
in east Germany (old sozialist part of Germany) we had production motorbikes where you could choose between normal accumulator inigtion and magneto inigtion, the disadvantages was that you had to push the bike to start it, there eas a simple reason to build in the two opportunities, since we had a shortage on everything in sozialist times even on accumulators, you have been able to use the bike with a dead accumulator until you have been able to organize a functional one and be able to use the comfort of a kickstart again, as a background to by a car you hade to wait 10 to 15 years until your order was produced, motorbikes had been an important in transportation an commuting
I ran a Joe Hunt mag.in my 63 pan head. Loved it. Nice and simple.
Of course Tony would know all about this mag. As a kid I had a magnet that came from an airplane or tractor or something, it was huge. Tied a rope to it, you could pick up stuff out of the lake.
The great old Wisconsin engines always used magnetos early on, hard to complain about them they always work, The old farm tractors always use those back in the 20s and 30s the old antiques! Hard to find anybody to work on those anymore that’s the problem!! Great video Tony I love it!!👍
I was driving an OLD ditch witch with a Wisconsin , almost no exhaust no maintenance and just before crossing railroad tracks it sputters and I parked it ! Somebody else who knows how to get it restarted can do that ! Lol I think it was opposed 4 cylinder .
@@mikesr3407 OMG Mike, at least you didn’t have it quit on the railroad tracks that wouldn’t of been a good day!! There’s people that work in magnetos, just basically have to do your research in your area hopefully it’s something simple maybe the points are bad or The rubbing block on the breaker points got worn down decreasing the gap!! Could be many things, but obviously I would start there see what the gap is!!👍
You can teach an old dog new tricks because this old dog just learned something watching this video.
That uncle sam Top hat Stack ties it together
Such a knowledgeable man you are Tony thank you for keeping it simple with explanation 🙂
Wow. That’s a name I haven’t thought about for a while, Scintilla Vertex Magnetos.
Cirello was the bees knees in the early days of drag racing and fuelers. Very cool looking mags too! They just look right on old drag cars! The Vertex style became very popular after that 👌
Thanks so much Tony. If i remember my tech, Magnetos also provide what is called "trailing" spark to ensure firing on every stroke. If a hi power mill with a lot of fuel entering the cylinder managed to flood/ground out the spark, it still had the capacity to fire the charge up to something like 15 - 20 degrees late when the plug gap cleared. This happens in like a 0.3 of a thousands of a second. I'm sure Tony can expand on the importance of this reliability factor and also in not sending unfired fuel charges through the exhaust.
Cheers
Wisconsin Air cooled engines used a Fairbanks Mores Mag. Had a bunch of fun watching a kid that thought he was sharp on small engines knock himself across the shop floor several times as he couldn't grasp that when he slowly rotated the engine up to TDC it would throw one hell of a spark. Had to explain that the click he was hearing was the armature spring assembly throwing the assembly over real fast so it would start throwing a spark as soon as the engine turned even slowly. You have to pay attention when timing them or you get a nice reminder.
Saves the 10hp needed for an alternator.. I have one on my 392 hemi ski boat , My father used to race. On vacation, we have to charge the battery . No alternator needed. Joe Hunt and Cirello are popular in California.
love to see UT laughing at his prank! I know nothing of magnetos (well I know a lot more now) and I have never seen one, very interesting thankyou
When you said, "I used to chase my cat around with one of these" That made me laugh my butt off!!!
I’ve always been curious about the “distributor” on a top fuel dragster. Now I know. You always learn something on the UTG channel
Alotta smaller air cooled engines use em too. They work great.
And somehow as of lately they've figured out how to electronically advance timing.
Uncle Tony is a car info " GOAT " my friend John Goodman ( RIP ) was the same way. When I first saw one of these videos I was 10 again making my B & S motors go fast!
Thanks UT on the spark plug gap!!. I've had problems with my Fairbanks Morse Mag, it's on a 1932 Fordson Tractor built in England, converted from the original "Spark Box".
Basically a Model-T engine on steroids. 1st thing I actually ever drove at age of about 9 or 10, pulling down whole trees by the roots with my Dad. I had to stand on the clutch while pulling up on the steering wheel. Boy, I got whacked by plenty of branches. Those were the fun days during a hot summer!
Haha, that ending Tony cracking up... great interesting lesson. MY uncle had a magneto in his 27 T Bucket dragster
Great Vid UTG! Love magnetos. there are lots of stationary engines form the 1920's that still run the original "horseshoe" maggies. Just one thing @4:48 platinum tipped points. Very important to clarify that they should not be filed with a normal points file as that will ruin them. They are very expensive (if you can obtain spares) and many have been ruined by well meaning but ill informed people in trying to file them as if they were "normal" points.
You forgot to mention Joe Hunt Magnetos. The Chevy versions have a hole in the base to lock them on Cylinder #1 in the 'points open' firing position to make it easy to set initial timing.
We still use magnetos in our Lincoln welders same ones from the 40s they weld to electronic ignition in the 80s but no one would buy em lol so they went back to mags
Good Stuff! DV was telling me that he did a Dyno test years ago . He was amazed at how much power was lost driving a Mag compared to a regular distributor setup ... That would be a fun test to do...
Andy
Planes use mags.
But they use impulse couplings at CFA king speeds to get a hot spark.
Most of em have dual plugs , and when you drop a mag during a run up mag check , she drops about 50rpms.
The power to produce the spark has to come from somewhere. But, to get that good of a spark out of a “normal” ignition system would require a lot more weight you have to haul around.
@@MrTheHillfolk the impulse it to kick the mag internals over faster for hotter spark at start-up.
Well, it's gotta drive a small generator.
And running a .020 plug gap does not help low end power at all
⚡when I was about 11 or 12 yrs. old the older guys I hung around with that taught me about cars had a gasser that had a Vertex pulled a good one on me, he told me to touch the end of the rod on the mag he said "does this feel sticky here?", and just as I touched it he spun the gear and it about knocked me to the floor my arm was numb for close to a day!!! Lessons learned!!!HAHAHA!!!!
This is the best nobody can say shit about this video because they could only dream about knowing what that thing is that’s why I love you Tony!
Tony, great video! I saw one of these "mags" for the first time on a nostalgia nitro funny car recently testing at Darlington. The car is called Gone Ballistic and the owner/driver Brian was explaining it to me. Very cool topic to discuss! Thanks!
Tony you spinning that thing reminds me of helping my older brother with his drag car back in the early 70s. It had a magneto in it a 67 Camaro with high winding 327 4 speed. I held the mag once and he said "Don't spin it!" then he showed me why. If you've ever taken a look at Herb McCandless' channel he shows one of the Hemi cars he ran back in early 70s and it had 2 mags and dual plugson it one direct drive the other belt driven off the first. Wild stuff.
Only experience I had with a magneto was on a tractor. But I know this it will knock the crap out of you!!!
Scintilla made mags for small engines also and probably motorcycle engines.
Tony's the man👍😎
Scintilla/Bendix was a big name in aircraft mags for a long time too.
THE AMERICAN BOSCH MAGNETO CORP STARTED IN AMERICA IN 1906 IN SPRINGFIELD MASS.
I love that you mentioned sprint cars.
I've spent a LOT of money with Lynn over at Mondello's. I've never had the pleasure to speak to Joe though...
Magnetos ruled the day once upon a time with farm tractors. Wico, American Boush, Edison Spitndrof, Fairbanks and Morse all made mags. Tractors built in the late 40s on started to use a distributor however today the points are not a very good quality so I have actually converted them to electric ignition. But the old mags work great.
V-12 Ferrari's from the 60's had 2 6-wire distributors running points with the Marelli magneto's built in underneath. If your ignition should die you flip the toggle switch and now you're running on mag power !
Mind blown once again. Great video uncle Tony
The ‘215’ was actually pretty common in the U.K. as the ‘Rover 3.5L V8’ (Buick sold the tooling to Rover after they were done with it) it ended up in all kinds of different things!
100 year old part and uncle Tony like a kid on Christmas ready to open it 👍🏼
Great video Tony and nice seeing some more Buick 215/300 content! I've debated fitting a magneto to my Rover (Buick) 3.5 in my Land Rover, just to make it apocalypse proof! Only one thing is really stopping me: were these magneto systems ever available with vacuum advance? I often sit on the motorway for a long period of time so vacuum advance is a good aid to economy!
Back in the 70's my dad bought a
Blown SBC flat bottom boat with a magneto
Years and years ago at Wyotech in Chassis Fab & Hi Perf Engines class, had 3 old drag racers teaching and one brought a Vertex to pass around the class, no cap on it, he knew damn well what he was doing 😄
I grew up drag racing, I knew what a magneto was all too well. I see kids passing it around, turning it a little. I forewarned one dude, "that thing is going to zap the piss out of you!" Nobody had grasp how a mag worked yet. Saw a kid give it a good snap and he about dropped it and peed his pants! They didn't get it makes high energy spark without batteries or anything hooked to it. It was a good laugh 😅. It was even funnier when i put the coil post on the classroom table frame and zapped a whole bunch of guys too close to the desk 😆.
I can say getting hit by an MSD 7AL2 Pro w/ pro power coil was worse! Our promod had Mallory SuperMag IV's tuned by Don Zig, that bastard was like getting hit by lightning!
Tony cirillo was the magneto magician.
I waited for tony to shock himself. took 8 min. lol. I played with mags for a lot of years on old harley's they are a great ignition.
We use these in airplane engines too because they allow the engine to keep running if the electrical system fails. A typical setup is a 4 cylinder engine with 2 spark plugs in each cylinder, with 2 magnetos so you still have partial power to all 4 cylinders if one magneto fails.
Oh god. So i have a motorized 2 stroke bicycle. It has a magneto ignition. I havent messed with it in years but had it out couple month s back. I tried to stop the engine but the kill switch stopped working. I wasnt thinking and reached down and tried to quickly unplug a wire from the magneto to an external coil. I got zapped HARD. So bad that i couldnt let go of the wire! Haha. So it took maybe 2.5 seconds for the engine to finally stop rotating. That was a long painful 2.5 seconds lol
In June of 1973 I bought a new Yamaha DT-3 250 Enduro. The ignition was a magneto.
They used to put them on bicycles mounted against the tires and they were called bottle dynamos. Technically not the correct term since a dynamo creates DC.
They were low powered AC producing magnetos. Anybody remember those?
Are referring to the ones that were to power a headlight? Crazy amount of drag on those.
@@luvr381 TANSTAAFL
@@akallio9000 ?
@@luvr381 www.google.com/search?q=TANSTAAFL
Magnetos are still popular in outboard motors too. I had to figure out how to wire a boat motor from scratch when i bought my boat and the magneto was the only part i couldn't figure out cuz i didn't know my motor was coil-on-plug, when older brands like that were usually switch-block.
Pretty cool. You could combine one of these with one of those hand crank, spring starters and run it without a battery.
Uncle Tony is the car version of ask this old house, and antiques roadshow.
Broke my elbow on sprint car frame in 94....found the bad cap the hard way...still hurts when I hear magneto 😆
Old Harley's had em. Mine still does
So cool. I love archaic stuff.
My dad ran a mag on his old #v8 stock car. He is 84 now! The number of the car v8 was because they mixed different paints together and the color was tomato juice. Also a flat head.
Henry Ford's model t used vibrator coils , a AC spark. That's why they called them trembler coils
I got one of those from my grandpa.
Well my dad has it.
At the shop.
I gotta get on him ,we should futz around with it.
He knows a little , and I know nothing about them, so we should be fine 😂
Who else saw the healthy paranoia? Tonys bro grabed some tape i think an put it over the diz hole in the block. I to would hate to have a screw drop in there, nice work. One thing i have learnt over the years, never think na it will be fine.
I was going to say make sure you keep it grounded when handling it i go shocket and droped my vortex mag on my boat back in the days
Great history lesson UT thanks
It's a work of art. Can a Magneto be use in a daily driver?
I worked on magnetos of all kinds for 45 years and yes you can run them in a daily driver I ran them in Chevy trucks for years with out trouble
Uncle Tony's fibulator!
That _"is"_ a good lookin engine!
I'm not familiar with "back in the day" Buick hardware UT but these videos you're doing have been very interesting, filling in the gaps brother thank you! Oh,h,h,h I like how he just casually puts a piece of tape over the distributor hole to keep those tiny screws from falling in!
Having suffered a sheared distributor drive gear in a /6 '70 Valiant 35 years ago from a dropped screw into the bowels of the distributor - followed by installing the replacement off by 1 tooth and finally readjusting it 1 tooth at a time the wrong-way-round - I cannot emphasize enough how important a piece of tape can be!
Another old-time casual factoid regarding building a Buick: because it's such an uncommon musclecar build, nearly all of the scant few aftermarket parts available for it tend to be high-zoot, higher-cost parts, resulting in Buick builds being the baddest in general terms.
I saw that , he is a cool cat ! No big deal snuck it over the hole without a word !
Yes l caught that as well... 😆 😆👍🏼👍🏼
I ran a Vertex mag in my first dragster, a B/Econo. One night a friend of mine were fooling around with the mag seeing how big a gap the spark would jump when the wire grounding the plug to the mag popped off and he had his hand between the wire and the mag. I can still remember the yell he let out and how far he jumped. Nearly 50 years later we still laugh about that.
In every rundown of parts used in dragsters and gassers in the old magazines 'Vertex Mag' was always in there.
I have 37 of them I have gathered up since the 70,s
Thanks Tony
Very cool! I love how much unique and rare stuff we get to learn about by watching your channel.
Now magneto is old technology I can get behind. Even though a MSD pro mag is like $2000 and up. They are cool on 60s and 70s kick start twin cylinder 4 stroke bikes as well.
I'm trying to put a Vette together, it has one of these. And now I know quite a bit more.
I smiled when I saw the guy stuff a rag in the hole after T pulled the mag......been there before.🤣
Magnets in the cheap chinese gas powered generators will lose strength when sitting.
Ive made a few bucks over the years buying seemingly dead generators , starting them, plugging in a drill and manually spinning the drill to tickle the field and start making juice. Leave it run under load for an hour or so and its good to go again..
dallas with the quick move on shop rag over the hole hahaha
Some technologies, no matter how old, are still the best for a given job.
An ignition system that doesn't rely on an external power source = magneto, an ignition that delivers a stronger spark at high rpm and is capable of firing the plug at extreme cylinder pressure = magneto, an ignition that simple, has few parts and is easy to repair if needed = magneto.
AG equipment used them forever because if the electrical system on the tractor failed the tractor could stay in the field working anyways.
It's much like the traditional all mechanical injection diesel (before electronics), you could push start one and it would run forever strictly on air and fuel - no electricity required.
Sometimes technology moves us backwards...
Being able to control something with a digital processor isn't always a step forward, when absolute reliability and in the field repairability is key then the magneto is the answer.
Loved that, cover the hole.
I believe my 1977 103 LVS Peugeot moped had a magneto, in all its 2 hp fury!
Tony in the last 3 yrs or so sprint cars started running a joe hunt mag thats coil on plug
Cool old tech! Good video