Setting Your Engine For Instant First Start
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- A crucial part of the camshaft break in procedure is making sure your engine starts and runs within just a few revolutions. Here's how to set up your ignition for an instant start.
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#engines #Hemi #camshaft
When I did my 455, I spent almost all my machine shop money on solid reliability instead of go-fast. I bought a book on building just that engine. I forget who wrote it, and I leant it out and never got it back. But it was a great great book. I followed it to the letter. Instant start, went right to temp and didn't overheat, great engine. My point is: always stack the deck in your favor, get the most knowledge you can. UTG is a library full of great info, for free. Thanks Tony.
and here you thought 7 years of college went down the drain.
Do you remember the author of that book?
@@Ecosse57 TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!
@@williamgolden839 like I say...no
455 Olds, Pontiac or Buick?
My neighbor's 63 TBird has been siting idle for many years. A friend left it in his garage and passed away , then my neighbor passed away and left it to me. In the past few weeks I have just been working on getting it started. Watching alot of Uncle Tony (especially the series "Your first Engine Job"). Today (with Tony's help) and this video, it fired off! Thanks Tony!
Those first start ups are always exciting! Even if you "know" you did everything right, the experience is always satisfying when it lights off! Nope, you didn't miss a thing.
I can't imagine the number of engines you saved with this video. Your videos are always great, no BSing around and always the straight dope. Hope you never quit educating those who really want their stuff right. See ya tomorrow!
Leave valve cover off, turn over engine by hand until #1 intake valve closes. You are now on comp stroke. Keep turning until timing pointer is at 20 degs BTDC. Mark where #1 terminal is on dist housing. Line up rotor tab with mark. Install cap & valve cover. Start. (on BBC you can leave valve cover on, just remove breather and watch intake rocker arm through the hole). Easy breezy😊
This is how I was taught. Toni saying to turn the motor 180 degrees, so the timing mark is at the top of the cam gear, and the timing mark is at the top of the crank gear - lost me. Somebody please explain?
I just rebuilt the 440 in my 69 Coronet RT. Im not a gear head by any means. Bought a book and watched u tube videos. I followed your video here and ill be damned if she didnt fire up immedietly. Fresh build...car had sat for 10 yrs before that. My buddies snickered. Told me you cant avoid the continuous cranking over on a new build. Just wanted to thank you.
So, when we built all of ours, we always took a drill and a homemade tool and primed the oil pump right before we did the distributor, not the day before either. We were taught to have absolutely everything on the table ready to go.. prime the pump for 30 seconds after it picks up oil, then commence to dropping the distributor in. Just something I was taught. Very descriptive explanation UT! Thanks! And just so some others know, the biggest reason we set the time ng so advanced is the microscopic tolerances losing their slack when a tight engine is first turned... There is a load of moving parts.. they all add a little.. anyway.. thanks again UT!
You can't prime the oil system on a big block Mopar using that method.
@@davidleonard8369 true, but all engines it was possible, we primed. Except the 440 of Jimmy's. It's oil system was electric. So we primed it of course.
@@Z_732 The oil pump on a b or RB Mopar is externally mounted and driven off the camshaft. So there is no way to spin the oil pump except by cranking the engine. Assembly lube is your friend. We used to pack the pump with vasoline so it was already primed and would pick up oil faster.
@@davidleonard8369 czcams.com/video/Fgq9leosLxo/video.html
@@Timotheousturalyon I was absolutely incorrect. I will apologize again for being stupid. Well maybe just getting Alzheimer's disease. The last Mopar v8 I assembled was a 426 max wedge and that was in 1986. You would think that even though the oil pump was externally mounted I would remember that it is still driven by an intermediate shaft that also drives the distributor. But nope my misfiring brain kept thinking about the slant six which is driven straight off the cam gear. We used to install the hemi relief valve spring in the slant six pump. Again, my apologies for being stupid.
This is exactly what I needed when I needed it. I just got my engine back from the machine shop yesterday. Looking forward to getting it finished and fired up! Thanks Uncle Tony à
Don't get to excited and rush things. Good luck
@@williamgolden839 yeah, way too much invested to to be careless. Luckily I have a buddy helping me with it who builds dragsters and super stock drag cars. He's a LS junkie but he's knowledgeable with other applications as well.
A fella learns more in one of Tony's videos than 9 month of auto shop class!
I learned setting the initial timing from my father. With the engine set 10 degrees BTDC he used a cigarette paper in the points and would advance the distributor until the paper could be pulled out easily. That gave just a few degrees over the 10. Most engines that I worked on like that couldn't be turned over one full crank rotation without starting.
I just hope ya realize what a service you provide and how much 'we the people' appreciate it , THANK YOU Uncle Tony.
Don’t forget the cooling system. I always make sure it is purged of air and on some engines I drill a 1/8” hole in the thermostat so it can vent any remaining air. It’s new, it will get plenty hot in a 20 min break in run. Don’t want to have to shut it down because the cooling sys is air locked.
I drill the stat on all race motors I build but not street motors as this can cause issues with winter over cooling. Leaving a heater hose off while filling is a good way to let air out of the system.
I have a lot to learn with traditional engines. All my newer vehicles are burped easily by just making sure the car is level or parked uphill.
@@jasonw7497 A lot of newer engines use a thermostat with a very small bleed hole / jiggle pin / check ball on the thermostat that allows air to bleed to the top. Also, some cars use a pressure tank that has a bleed line to the top of the rad, these are self bleeding.
@@bobroberts2371 great info. Can you easily find newer style stats for older engines? Is that a thing?
@@jasonw7497 Go to Rock Auto and look up these numbers below then click on the info tab. This will show pictures, you are looking for the small brass " jiggle pin " .
Basically this lets air bypass the stat but , since water is thicker than air , not much water when the car is running. It looks like these will work with older stuff, stat diameter/ temp is what matters. Note that some import / newer engines ( see MOTORAD 281192 ) use a disc on the bottom of the stat, this is to block the coolant bypass passage when the engine is warmed up.
Examples of stats with jiggle pins.
ACDELCO 12T24D
MOTORAD 240180
GATES 33489
GATES 33489S
Always feels like magic when all those parts you assembled comes to life.
I bet our friends think it’s past just normal ol magic
Great advice and I agree on everything Tony. Have a light attached and ready when you start to crank over before fuel even hits the engine and you can see the ignition is in the ballpark before she gets fuel. RPM's are critical on first fire and you can dial in the timing once spinning at break-in speed. That break-in lube will stick around until she starts slingin' oil if you aren't wasting time. Teamwork helps on first fire.
Tony man I’ve been watching your videos since this channels inception. Your knowledge, insights & wisdom is something you can’t find in the world today. Thank you for everything you do man 🤙🏼
That's one thing I like about GM HEI distributors, it's really easy to line up the reluctor with the magnet just by lining up the "points" (I know they're not contact points, but they're pointy, so what else would you call them?). This is the thing people seem to have the most trouble with when they start their new engine. They think they lined everything up but they usually forget to take the slack out of everything first, then they call me after they've screwed around for 2 days trying to get it to start. Sometimes they get mad when when I start checking everything, telling me they already did that... but I have to be nice and just say, "well, I just want to be sure... gotta start with the basics" and I usually find something simple that they missed. But they're always happy when it finally starts and runs like it should.
Years ago, a friend of mine lost his fiber cam gear on a 1947 Chevrolet. He got it towed home, and we took the motor apart. We were 18 at the time. Replaced the bad cam gear and checked everything else out. I primed the oil pump, rotated the engine to TDC, and stuck in the distributor with the points just breaking. During that time, his battery had gone dead. So, I told him just roll down the hill and let the clutch out in second gear. He got mad as a hornet at me. I assured him that it would start and he reluctantly rolled down the hill. In about 20 feet he let the clutch out and the motor woke up. We drove it around the block a few times and all was well.
Engine work/videos like this is what got me dedicated to this channel. As a younger guy it’s really useful to have these videos for knowledge. Rebuilt a LA 318 because I saw uncle Tony do it to bottle rocket. Mines stock but still probably wouldn’t have done it if it weren’t for this channel.
Always like the 318 over the 360
This is something I have been sweating for a while as I plan my next build. I’m stoked to have a tutorial from UT!
😏 See, you only have to worry about these issues if you're working with anything other than Fords.....But let's say for instance you're rebuilding a stock 65 Mustang fastback, with it's completely original 680hp 289 2v, then you just KNOW it's gonna start the 1st time! In fact, it'll probably be in such a hurry to start, that it'll start itself before you even fully turn the ignition switch!
😉 It's gonna be in a hurry to start, so it's life of beating Chevys and Mopars can begin anew! 😁👍
@@HighlanderNorth1 This is the only time I will unironically say.......Who the hell asked? Sounds like someone is insecure about people's view on Fords on a MOPAR focused channel.
@@blade-fpv9411
Dude, it was a joke. I love old Mopars, Fords, Pontiacs, Buicks, etc! I thought I made it obvious I was doing a little good natured ribbing with my exaggeration of the "680 stock horsepower from a 289 2v". Obviously no stock 289 2 barrel is going to make anywhere near 300hp, let alone 680!
Did you never joke with other car guys about each other's choices in cars, or sports teams? Have you never heard sarcastic cliches like "FORD = found on road dead"? I've heard that a million times, but not once did I assume the person saying it meant personal harm or insult to me Don't go through life assuming everyone is a bad person just because of a little light hearted sarcasm.
@@HighlanderNorth1 Ok I'll admit you got me haha. I guess looking back now I should've seen it lol. You gotta admit there's way too many folks out there who actually talk like that though. Most of the time I can't tell the difference anymore! But hey, my apologies man. Guess I'm just a little jumpy on negativity these days. Hell, there's guys in my town that go out of their way to sling hate towards everything that doesn't have their favorite badge on it. I guess I just got used to others talking down on brands with actual hateful intention. But hey, I'm glad to meet another guy who can appreciate a little bit of everything!
@@blade-fpv9411
Hey, no problem, and I was a bit overly snappy at the way I handled my "comeback" after I saw your post! But yeah, there's a LOT of trolls on CZcams, and I occasionally wrongly assume that someone is being a troll, only to figure out later that they aren't trolling.
Static timing if you're good at it you can have your initial timing within a couple of degrees on startup
For points ignition, i always did static timing with a simple test light. I never understood setting everything to zero and firing it. Made no sense. You know ignition timing is set advanced. Why not dial that in before cranking? Every engine I've done cranked with no issue that way. I just did the engine in my CJ jeep. Even went the extra step of priming the carb bowl using my motorcycle remote tank. Damn thing started and idled like it had thousands of miles on it. Almost forgot to raise the idle for cam break in.
Uncle Tony, You made that very clear. I am 77 years old, when we were kids, you know 15, 16 years old working on cars. We used the cellophane from our pack of smoke's to set when the points were opening. I don't think we knew about moving the rotor back, I am thinking maybe we rotated the engine by hand until the points started to open. Your videos bring back some great memories. One of the fastest cars I had was a 1960 Dodge Matador D500. I wish I had know a fraction of the information that you share, keep up the good work!
Been a while but always would get #1 at 10-15 degrees before TDC, install distributor, wires, hook up coil, then rotate distributor until #1 fired(with an old plug against the engine) and they started up right away.
I'm almost finished with my first everything. It's an L98 motor swapped 92 k1500, and it's taken me 3 years to rebuild and upgrade EVERYTHING in it. I just hit 1500 miles past the break-in on a Lunati 281/293 hydraulic flat tappet cam/pistons/crank, zz4 heads, transmission rebuild, and carb swap. Not bad for 0 experience and no help aside from what i've found on CZcams from channels like yours. I had no idea that it would take me as long as it has, and I just had to swap out a bad distributor that had no spark. But I did my entire ignition based on your videos, and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your content. If I hadn't stumbled upon this channel, i'd still be at least 3 months behind where i'm at today. Here's where i'm at so far. Gotta get my exhaust sealed up, and I think it'll finally be ready for some paint. czcams.com/video/t-im3oa7Pso/video.html
Great advice Tony, I haven't built an engine in over twenty years but this video brought it all back to me. One tip I share with anybody; When filling with coolant, I've always kept one heater hose off the engine until I see coolant coming out of the hose (maybe have a buddy put thumb over the nipple on the engine) then quickly join the hose and nipple and violla' it's totally full of coolant. Maybe a small leak to clean up but it's no big deal. See ya tomorrow
My machine shop guy told me about this very same procedure on the startup for my newly rebuilt 440 worked like a charm it started up so fast it actually startled me, very sound advice that most people don't know about.
Rebuilt my first LA 318 and was having issues getting it started. I then followed UTs instructions and started right up . Thank you sir for all your help.
YES I’ve seen this many years ago but I needed concise refresher. I’m going through an in-line 6 4.9L with a spout connector, and I want a clean first start. GREAT VIDEO THANKS Tony❗️
I followed this to a "T" before the first start of my rebuilt 340. It started on the first touch of the screwdriver on the relay. Scared me so bad I dropped the tool. Thanks for the video. We broke in the cam, and it starts right now with the twist of the key.
Great video Tony, you just taught allot of people what the majority of mechanics don't remember. Not used as much today, but good fundamentals. I would add making sure the ignition wiring is spot on, and all fluids perfect. I used to use a test light to positive to set the points, when my light went out - you're there. Keep them comimg
Good run down on what us old guys have been doing ...
Thanks, Tony, I’ve done a few Chevy builds over the years, some fired better than others… am in the process of doing a stock 350 for my son’s nova, gonna fire it during Xmas vacation. I will revisit this vid again, to get the best outcome. Thanks!
Got my old account up again.. Thanks Ultra KATHY for making other account a Mod also.. You guys really have always been great to me..
Me and my dad broke in his Olds 403 with the Holley sniper efi and it was the smoothest break in we’ve ever had.
Excellent video, Tony. I love it when the engine wakes up on the first or second rotation… very satisfying. And, for novices, ALWAYS be sure that the oil system is fully primed before touching the starter. On old cam-in-block engines, where the oil pump is driven by the distributor, I like to find a matching shaft and spin the oil pump with an electric drill till it audibly loads up, no chance of a dry start, waiting for the filter and oil galleries to fill.
I think you covered it pritty well uncle Tony!!!! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!!
Thanks Unk. Awsome vidio....of course I needed it 40 years ago. I'm feel good about the hemi grind cam I lost because the other 4 cams survived and I didn't even know about braking in cams. Just poured stp over the lobes and fired it up
Wow I learned something today !
Always wondered why buddies would assemble an engine , have the dots on the timing gears lined up for the install part of it and stab in the dizzy and be 180 out cause it's popping and spitting and won't start.
I just figured it was because I didn't help em assemble it😂
Good to know that's tdc exh stroke.
Great video Tony! Everybody (the big car-guy personalities in the public eye) always tell you what you need to do. But they never go in to the how-to details. This is why you rock! Real world, hands on, proven, how-to-do-it RIGHT! This really is the most important step of the actual "build" of a flat-tappet engine after proper machine-work and cleanliness. And soo many people can't nail it. Even people with years and years of experience still fumble-fuck around with the first start. This is not the place to not be 100% sure what your doing. And good on you for mentioning the dot-to-dot situation of TDC on compression. That bites lots of people. Again, great video! I use a piston-stop and degree wheel. Because I don't have as much experience as you to set the crank position your way LOL. And it probably takes me 8 times as long as you. But, the results are always: bang! She's a runner!
Interesting. The timing marks on the cam gear and crankshaft gear of my 105 year old motorcycle (1916 Indian) work exactly the same way that you described for a (relatively) modern car.
Very similar to what an old guy taught me when I was young and dumb. Old guys need to be passing this stuff on. Good vid UT
Man, that's really a great video. I learned so much. I sure did not realize that when the dots are at the bottom of the cam gear and the top of the crank gear that it's TDC of the exhaust stroke. That's worth the price of admission right there.
Dude.....Uncle Tony....this is literally the video I needed. Finally a tech initial timing video with these details. I was having issues directly related to this. I didn't advance enough.
Thanks !!!!!!
I know on the small block Chevy's, I would get to #1 TDC by watching the valves. When it's on #1 TDC the #3 intake valve was open. Like you said advance the dist approximately 10° and usually it fired right off. Got you in the ball park as for static timing. Thanks again Uncle Tony for another great video!!
I've never thought about it before but how do manufacturers break in cams, do they run every single new engine for 20 - 25 minutes?
No, but they use roller lifters now that require no break-in. This is only a thing for flat tappet cams.
Bobby Adams, they actually used to do exactly that, I had a friend that worked at the end of the engine line at Cadillac and every engine got started on a test stand and ran for 20 minutes @2000 RPM
I'm convinced that car likes it there it always comes back to your shop
Lol, this explains some issues I had getting my wagon started. Learning new stuff everyday
So true, making sure the thing will start right up, ESPECIALLY a start after a freshen up or a total rebuild. Love the videos very informative.
Thanks Tony. Another great how to segment.
Thanks for the video Tony. I helped by dad break in a cam in his 70 Duster over the weekend, and after sweeping the distributor we found a wiring issue (low voltage with the Petronix). Once corrected it fired right up and the break in was a success!
Turn the ignition to the on position. Turn the distributor housing against rotor rotation. There will be an audible click and a spark across the points. More accurate than a timing light.
Yep, so true.. it is astonishing how relevant this video is to my experiences. I received engines from two different engine builders on two different occasions and after asking a direct question, was told...it's on number 1 firing position. Both times I'd stab the distributor on number 1 and go to troubleshooting. We'd put it 180 out and get instant start.
Thanks Tony, every time i watch your videos i either learn something new or something i know pretty good is made clearer to me , thanks mate .
Damn Tony, this info is golden - Thank you.
Good explanation Tony as always.:)
Thanks for the old school wisdom Tony. Your videos are always a great source for quality content.
I always set the crank at 0, put the distributor in pointing at number one and just blindly advance it a little..... I like your way better!
I always thought dot to dot was TDC but my father taught me a long time ago I was wrong my friend brought his 79 Z/28 after changing his cam that would bearly and redropped his distributor , car ran great 👍 great video...
Brilliant! Thank you Uncle Tony. This is applicable to the flat four pushrod Porsche engines I’m playing with these days. The fundamentals is fundamental
After all these years,and all these engines i've built/rebuilt,you answered the nagging question...WHY are my engines (more often than not) 180 degrees out of time ? Now i know. Thank You,Tony. I never would have figured it out to align cam gear mark & crank gear dot to "12 o'clock" then put the dizzy in & it will be in time.
I just freshened up my sbc. It's 16, but basically new.
I have Pete jackson sbc gear drive, and lost the instructions. Found them online.
Sure enough, had to rotate untill cam gear dot was on top.
I could have sworn gm chains you didn't have to do that.
I was losing my mind till I found the instructions!
Struggled a bit with something like this on a Toyota 3.0. Had to advance the distributor a tooth against the cam gear to get the truck to light off after The top end rebuild. Not sure what went wrong but that engine liked having the distributor way advanced...
Thank you uncle tony, I have been tryin to do this at leas ten times to my engine 1979 350 - It wasnt until i saw this video that it hit me and then i found this video that backa me up on my crazy thought- I figured the spark should fire at tdc however
everywhere says to get it at tdc including spark YOU SIR - are the only one to explain it like i thought, Thank you sir- She is in a 79 C10 i bought christmas eve- just never messed with her until last weekend and this mornin-
Now since i found your video as backup im willin to give her another chance as i was about to throw her in the bay
All good stuff.
One caveat - I've had occasion where the 0 degree mark on the balancer was
not correct. Always a good idea once you've got the cover on and the balancer installed to
go through the piston stop method of finding true TDC because of this.
That's exactly why he goes through the step of locating TDC first, and then zeroing out the damper against the timing mark before setting it for advance
Excellent valuable timing info !! ....With sprocket Dots lined up, make sure distributor drive gear index groove is Parallel with with camshaft....With his points distributor, any 12 volt test light (dome lite, tail light bulb, etc) will turn On at Exact ponts opening/coil firing degree & eliminate eyeball error...
Great video. Now we all got to go out and find a 426 Hemi, build it, and set up all of our distributors the way UT showed us. Remember, with dual points, you look for the second (trailing) set of points to open for fire.
So now what’s the best thing to do if something goes wrong, like what if she doesn’t light off right away, or if she overheats during the break in. Will it guarantee a wiped cam if you have to shut it off and start over? I see tons of videos on the proper way to break in a cam, but it is really hard to find a vid on when something goes wrong.
Thanks for all the helpful content. You inspire my kids and I to get our 72 Duster on the road again. Didn't happen this summer but maybe next summer we can cruise the Duster around. We can only afford so much each year for the Duster but we're getting there.
Awesome stuff Uncle Tony, this video helped me realize why my balancer marks were off.
Instead of running the motor at first start, I hook up an electric motor to the pully on the crank and run a second motor to drive the oil pump. Run the pump motor about 1 to 2 minutes before you run the crank motor. This gets oil to all bearings before the engine is rotated.
Points are Always the best - 100% agree!
Great video UT!
God Bless
😎
Yes, I did. I got a LOT out of that. Thank you.
If you do it right the timing can be within 1/2° of perfect. That was one of the things that we were required to do at the voc tech school that I went to. Another thing that you want to do during cam break-in is to advance the total timing to about 40° advanced at 2500 RPM. This will keep your headers from turning cherry red. The engine is not under load during break-in so the rotation and is not slowed down causing the fire to still be going after the work is done.
👍🏻 yep there’s actually a method to the madness lol i bet a lot of people get something from all the tech tips you put out keepem coming buddy . Take care!
I like your practical approach. Now I have one for you: To verify TDC with the heads off, cylinders #3 and 5 will both be at mid-stroke (but exactly the same distance). This means that they will be at exactly equal height to each other from the deck. You can measure this with a ruler or caliper, and it very accurately sets #1 piston at TDC without guess work or dial gauge.
Great info. I'm the guy that's always 180 out thinking the timing chain marks are tdc. As you show it is not
No stunt carb, but great information! Thank you! I had a buddy rebuild a Beetle, and he forgot it was set for TDC Exhaust. When he figured it out, he swapped the wires and said, "God help the next guy to get this engine."
How are the dogs feeling after all the cheese?
Your the guy everybody hopes for in automotive shop in high school . 😜
This is a very helpful video. Thank you. Please do more like this. Concise, yet all the tips are there.
Excellent. I wonder if that works as well in getting me up in the morning.
Always learning something new watching Uncle Tony. Thank you for sharing your knowledge
You can use a test light to too seen when the points open trigger or msd
good explanation
I always spark time Mine by twisting the distributor with the number one spark plug wire connected and Twist the distributor till it sparks , with the damper set at 20 degrees advanced. And remind everybody to double-check all lines and hoses to make sure everything's tight and full so you will not have any leaks and not run out of gas or power steering fluid
Stage the engine for that FIRST START! that critical cam shaft break-in first start! got it.
... oh, and the Timing Gear Dot Thing, if I was bumbling it together I woulda put them dot to dot vs dots up!
Great video.. good instructions..big thanks I had my car sitting from ages now it's up and running..keep up the good work.. cheers 🥂
Good information. I also machined a tool to adapt a drill motor to run the oil pump on my 383 before I put the distributor in the engine and started it.
fantastic video. i am putting in a new engine into my f/sa duster 340 stocker i parked in 2001.
this is the best fucking explanation on all of CZcams. you got my subscribe spent 3 days trying to figure out what top dead center to put the distributor in,
Thanks Uncle Tony. Building my first engine. I saved this video for my first start.
Im about to start up a new hydraulic flat tappet build and it terrifies me knowing of all the cam and lifter failures in recent times. Wish me luck!
Where were you years ago my friend!! Great! Great!! Video explained perfectly for us real world guys!
Why is cranking on the starter so bad for breaking in a cam? There's less oil, but you have the break-in grease and it isn't spinning fast.
The engine has to come up to a higher RPM a than cranking or idle to ensure the lifters rotate as they reciprocate. If they don’t do this immediately, they will not break in and wear mate to each respective cam lobe. If they don’t rotate, they’ll wear a groove through the heat treat and wipe out a cam lobe in very short order.
@@johnwilburn Thanks.
This was so interesting! I thought you were just gonna tell us to prime the engine with carby cleaner
CULT LEADER UTG!!!
I don't know how it happens but this information is what I needed next month. Thank you!
Great video Tony ! Big thanks to camera girl ! Y'all are greatly appreciated !
Excellent information. Suggestion when you come up with a new video idea while your filming (detailed cam timing like you said in this video) have a white board near by and make a list of these great ideas fur new content.
Super fantastic video. High tech for some, but you can get it. Backlash is key.
My favorite type of video.
great vid sir recommendation do a thorough perload vs torque n go n different specs of aluminum/steel heads valve lash vid you do a great job i recommended you to all young kids asking questions
Great tech session!