The car so bad it shocked Mclaren
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 04. 2023
- They call it the Forgotten Mclaren. A car that was revolutionary, truly ahead of it's time. maybe too much so. Designed by Adrian Newey as a desperate attempt to get back on top of Ferrari going into the 2003 Formula 1 season, the team pushed technology past it's limits and bit off more then they could chew. But what happened, really?
Problematic F1 Cars - 2003 Mclaren MP4-18
Mclaren MP4-12C, Mclaren MP4-17D, MP4-19. Kimi Raikkonen, Mika Hakkinen. David Coulthard. - Sport
Probably the best thing about the MP4-18 is that it showed how good the MP4-17 was
Let’s not forget how Kim was consistent enough to be able to keep up with the Ferraris and Williams despite how there were times where the car had little updates.
@@chanchaniceman Ye, its a shame that Mclaren/Ron Dennis didnt recognize in time that they should have put all their efforts into MP4-17 in 2003 after seeing how problematic Mp4-18 was, let alone how competitive MP417 actually was after its worst reliability problems had been sorted out from 2002.
But as a result they compromised both their 2003 and 2004 seasons. Where as putting all the efforts into upgrading MP4-17 more they might have had better chance to win the 2003 championship.
@@Balnazzardi that’s what puzzles me is the decision to put the MP4/17 as an afterthought when the car basically had 1 reliability issue and Kimi was getting consistent results with it while putting every ounce of resources on the MP4/18 when the car was so difficult to work with. Dennis’ decision to overrule Newey was more or less what puts them on the backfoot. The decision to put all its resources on the mp4/18 literally ruined 2004 completely before 2004 started.
@@chanchaniceman The car was clearly the fastest on the grid until michelin was found to be cheating
If they'd just made the 18 an evolution of the 17D instead of trying to revolutionize the wheel, they'd have beaten Ferrari
Man, this car really was the Wurzst
IT’s worst
@@louisbeerreviews8964whooooosh
I did nazi that coming
I am sure some ancient king of Macedon would have done great.
@@JJStonnerrwhat
The concepts trailed on the MP4-18, -19, -19B, were ultimately vindicated in the almighty MP4-20. The -20 also introduced new concepts that were detailed in Newey's book, How To Build A Race Car. One of F1's finest ever cars was plagued by poor engine reliability, strategy blunders, and erratic driver errors (Montoya mostly), and meant both titles were lost when McLaren should have ran away with it. The greatest F1 car that did not win the championship.
The MP4-20 got 10 wins (when it could have been 15), 7 pole positions (could have been at least 10) and 12 Fastest Laps, but even with prime Kimi Raikkonen at the wheel, could not overcome the relentless and consistent challenge by Fernando Alonso in the superbly reliable Renault R25.
The McLaren MP4-28 should be the next topic.
The MP4-20 and the MP4-28 share many themes. Blistering pace with a blundering garage and unreliability. Both could make this list.
However the most problematic car of all time has gotta be a finale episode on the F2012
@@GoldHunter606 MP4-27 of 2012(?), was a near repeat of 2005. The -27 started the season very well with a clean, sleek and elegant car design that easily made it the best looking car of 2012 season in both the AUS-BAH low-nose, to the ESP-ABU high-nose configuration. Keep in mind 2012 season featured the first of the 'stepped nose cone' cars, from the decent Lotus E20 and Red Bull RB8, to the angular and aggressive Ferrari F2012. The MP4-27 introduced the most sophisticated interpretation of the Coanda blown-exhaust system, until Red Bull debuted the definitive 'ramp and tunnel' version on the RB8 in Singapore. Cannot find the source, but the -27 also had a functioning 'double-DRS' rear wing around the same time Red Bull had it on the RB8. It is also worth mentioning that the -27's front wing did not receive the development that the RB8 and F2012 did in the late season, and remained relatively simple in its layout.
Yet again, as so often happened with McLaren from 2000 onward, they always end up losing. What was to be Hamilton's final McLaren, was, much like Raikkonen and the MP4-20 in 2005, plagued by reliability issues, operational blunders, catastrophic team strategy calls, and overall bad luck. Hamilton lost up to four race wins, that would have altered the final result of 2012 season dramatically. The team also wasted half the season getting Button back up to pace, effectively throwing away the -27's performance advantage had development been focused on Hamilton. The superior performance of Vettel and the RB8 late season, and the relentless and consistent form of Fernando Alonso in the F2012, meant McLaren's title fight was over that night when Hamilton's crippled MP4-27 pulled off to the side in the streets of Singapore.
As of 2023, the MP4-27 remains McLaren's latest F1 car to competitively challenge for the championship. Daniel Ricciardo's win in Italy 2021 with the MCL35M, was significant to break the team's nine year win drought. But it ultimately had little impact on the team's fortunes going into the ground effect era 2022 onward.
Ron Dennis surely was a lovely individual
Just thinking how the 2005 Mclaren Mp/4-20 was such a beast with its blistering pace and how Kimi was able to extract this car performance to near perfection.
@@GoldHunter606 F2012 had great reliability though, and really wasn't as bad as everyone claims. The F14T on the other hand.......
Kimi really deserved so much more in McLaren regarding machinery.
It wasn't just the machinery though. I think Ron Dennis was too hard on Kimi and didn't want him to party that much. They wanted Kimi to be much more of a company man but Kimi has always been his own man. I think that's a big reason why he went to Ferrari in 2007.
@@zarategabe I won't disagree. I just wish he got more from McLaren to match his brilliant efforts.
It’s just unfortunate how his years at McLaren were held back by botched developments of the 2003 car then you add how terrible the 2004 car was along with how unreliable the 2005 and you had a lot of internal politics there that more or less held the team back.
Kimi was the most overrated driver this century. Got real teammates, lost to them lmao. It shows how Kimi FAILED with McLaren that he didn't win a title there because much better drivers like Alonso and Michael struggled to beat him
@@dxfifa I'd like to know what substances you take. In his prime he beat all of his teammates tf you mean. He had a shit McLaren, aerodynamics from Newey couldnt save it's terrible engine reliability. Massa bottled it multiple times, while Kimi was consistent. He put Lotus in debt because he got more points than expected. Yeah, outside his prime (which was not beyond 07) Kimi could've cared more and done even better, specifically with the Ferrari shitbox while being paired with Alonso. He is not overrated, in fact, his skills are mostly undermined due to his interesting character taking the spotlight.
the mp4-18 actually raced in 2004, newey said the 19 was the exact same as the 18 and everyone knows how shit the reliability was that year
Indeed, it was pretty much the same car, with only name change. It was only starting to unlock its potential towards the end of the season when Kimi took 1 pole and won in Spa, but by then it was too late. How I wish they had just focused more on developing MP4-17 since it was actually fairly competitive in 2003 after its worst reliability issues had been sorted out after 2002. But instead they compromised both their 2003 and 2004 seasons.
@@Balnazzardi and without blown diffuser, i heard that one of the car shorcomings were caused by the exhaust gas temperatures caused by the v10, the gasses overheated the pieces to the point the car could get punctures or get damage in some zones at least in the mp4/18
@@Balnazzardi Didn't McLaren introduce a completely new car halfway through 2004? The MP-18 was too far ahead of its time and it cost McLaren both in 2003 and 2004.
@@mrdraw2087 well they introduced B spec of MP4-19 in middle of 2004 season but it wasnt entirely new car. Helped them to get more points in second half of 2004 than during the 1st half though
great video, this series has certainly become one of my favorites on CZcams.
But I think there are two things missing from this video:
The first is that Newey discovered the source of some of the car's aerodynamic problems, and to solve them they would need to redesign the chassis. However, other engineers disagreed and said that it could be solved without redesigning the chassis, in the end they took a vote, Newey lost and was pretty pissed off.
The second is that technically this car did race, as the 2004 MP4/19 was largely based on the MP4/18. As expected, it performed terribly and when Newey was finally able to redesign the chassis the way he wanted the car proved to be quite competitive.
I don't know if you're into old cars a lot, but I think it would be worth making a video about the Fittipaldi F6: The car that was supposed to be a revolutionary project that would place Fittipaldi among the great teams in F1, but which turned out to be problematic and was the beginning of the end for them.
Loving this series! New F1 youtuber absolutely crushing it out of the gate? Well done!
The 18 would go on after some work to become the 19 and it had the overheating problem until mid-2004, when the updated 19B came out, which fixed the aerodynamic shortcomings of both the 18 and 19.
That’s the short version of the story
For me the Mp/4-18 was way ahead of it’s time and for it’s time it was definitely a revolutionary peace of engineering. Introduce ideas and designs that would later become the norm in the 2010s be it the latter days of the V8 era and in the v6 hybrid turbo era.
These revolutionary ideas became the norm in 2010, because that was when the technology to manufacture these ideas into parts had developed sufficiently. Sorry mate, but I disagree with you when it comes to calling the Mclaren MP4-18 revolutionary. If the MP4-18 was revolutionary, it would have competed more then a lap without falling apart on the test track.
Great insights. Thanks a lot! This channel deserves way more subscribers.
Man this channel is absolutely amazing. Keep it up dude 👍
Man this channel is absolutely amazing. Keep it up dude . Man, this car really was the Wurzst.
Oh this made my morning, please more of this
love your holistic approach!
your content is a banger
Uhhhhhh, this is gonna be a great video, the car that scared Kimi
"Bwoahhh"
Channel quote "this is only the beginning", i sure as hell hope so because your content is great.
Great video ! I don't agree about the Mika Hakkinen bit, Mika won races even in his last season, the motivation to stop was mainly personal and the fact that he wanted to let space for Kimi, while he was seeing McLaren wasn't going anywhere. I would argue that Mika could still be a champion in 2001 or 2002 if he had a good car.
The 2001 McLaren was a pretty good car. Häkkinen just was incredibly unlucky and probably shaken after his Melbourne crash.
@@mrdraw2087 sure, pretty good, but not in the same league as the F2001.
Great content, keep it up
These videos are great please keep it up
Keep up the good work bro 💪 💯
Great concept, waiting for F14T
The McLaren MP4/18 never raced, but the design cues and lessons can be seen on future McLaren cars from the MP4/19 to the MP4/23.
Also in defense of Newey, he was just the biggest name in the team and basically end up being the magnet of the blame. But he was not the sole responsible for it all and did not have full power at McLaren when it came to engineering and design decisions, having some decisions being ruled out by vote. All of this was one of the main reasons Newey left to RB where he received the treatment and freedom he wanted and well... You can see the results. RB went from "just another team" that the paddock saw as a novelty to a dominant powerhouse in a few years.
Great video :)
I just watched Aiden Millward's video about this subject!! Which is a great video and channel. This is a very good video as well. You've got a new subscriber.
Hey Jonny, great video. However, from what I see, there is a small error. The image of Neil Oatley is incorrect as it shows Patrick Head, the lead engineer of Williams, whom Adrian Newey had worked alongside previously. Once again, great video. I am impressed with your documentary.
Beat me to it
Great chanel👍
Jonny looks like a guy that knows how to rev match. A very attractive trait
There so many things in just the first 2 and a half mins that are just wrong. Just a couple. No Mclaren had not being doing well for awhile. They had a good 98 and 99 other than that they had been pretty bad. Even going back as far as early 90's, that Senna lost faith in the team and switched. Mika's horrible crash in Adelaide was in 95, way before his titles, he lost interest in the sport for other reasons.
In 2000 and 2001 they were fighting Ferrari for both titles. In 2002 they were bad, definitely.
McLaren in 2003) That is the worst car we ever made.
McLaren in 2015) Hold my beer, and i will show you a lot worse.
I remember the english media creaming its pants on the weekly about how beautiful this car was and with just a few tweaks they could bring it to the track ....never to be seen.
Ik im late to this convo but if they just worked with foamed ti al they would have a very light very strong housing for the gearbox an every other hard components this is madness multimetalmaterials an carbonfiberformed metal materials are a thing of the past
I remember Kimi driving on McLaren and we bet on when the engine would blow.
Too bad.. With better luck Kimi could've got 2 championships with McLaren, 1 with lotus and 5 with Ferrari. At least.
Is it true that McLaren more or less turned the MP4/18 into the MP4/19? Something like a updated version or a B-Spec Typ of car?
Yes
MP4/20. iirc the 18 became the 20 and was still very fragile and unreliable
Man, I miss those NAv10 engines, and those 13 inch tyres
So I’m a newer American formula one fan (I know, I’ve heard it all, come at me! And yes, DTS got me hooked into the sport!) but I seriously love this series! I love learning the history of formula one and the backstory of teams! And with all of that said LETS GO SUPER MAX!!!!
At least, you support Max.
The reason for reliability problems and losing ground in 01 and 02 was primarely due to a Ferrari protest about Mercedes engine and usage of supposedly cancerogenic material for piston arms inside of the engine. Ferrari itself would probably still be an invincible force, but Mclaren would be able to compete much closer to the top if Mercedes would not be forced to change their materials.
Funfact: Pat Fry who was working on the MP4-18 told that after just a few winter tests McLaren had bill of 50.000 £ just for the fire extinguishers!
Interesting video, but man do you need to look at what clips you're using to go with your comments.
Talking about a blown diffuser, you show the BGP001 which did not have a blown diffuser.
Talking about crashes Mika had in the late 90's you show one from the early 90's.
And those are just the examples I can remember.
Speech so fast it made me check if I had YT set to 1.25x speed.
Love the videos but damn it's fast!
Er...@ 0.27 the guy on the right is Patrick Head of Williams, - NOT Neil Oatley as stated.
Dont forget in 2003 Ferrari brought their f2003-GA in spain. The races before that they ran a modified f2002 as well.
Why do you have a picture of Patrick Head when you said Neil Oatley?
I love the fact that Lando now has a shot race victories (if max retires from a race that is) just 3 months after you saying this! I am a Red Bull fan so I am enjoying the past 12 races while the past 23 years but I've also been a Lando fan for a while. I'm really hoping that unchecked those contract runs out and Lando's contract runs out window becomes 1B at Red Bull. Well after a season he would be at that level. First-year he would definitely be a number 2 driver.
00:26 Isn't it Patrick Head (black&white image, in a Mobil 1, Canon and Denim jacket)? But not Neil Oatley.
I was just thinking the same thing. And yes, that's Patrick Head.
It stopped me watching any further. Anyway
"Please bro no more"-Wurtz
How to make this video: read out loud all the available online articles and cut videos don't connected to the topic.
That's not how not to make quality content
8:03 spitting image of Max, even though Jos has gained lots of weight haha 😅
Yeah one of the main reasons the McLaren lost pace from 2000 was that the FIA banned what Mercedes had been using for the cylinder liners that allowed the late 90s cars to run hot and fast. The liners had been through a hardening process which used I think a type of spent radioactive material or something. It was banned because every time an engine did go up there was a fear it would also blow radioactive material everywhere. Without the hardened liners the engines just didn't produce the power or reliability of the 1998 -99 McLarens. What also happened was that Bridgestone, who'd been bought into F1 as a dedicated tyre manufacturer by McLaren, turned traitor and made exclusive deals with Ferrari with regards to tyre development. In essence it meant the tyres for the entire grid had been developed to work on the Ferrari but not necessarily everyone else's car. It meant Ferrari had insight to wear and tear of the tyres allowing them to optimise their use. None of the other teams had this advantage and were left playing catch-up which they never could. When Micheline entered the sport they began the decline of Ferraris' dominance which all but disappeared with the switch to Pirelli tyres.
The blown diffuser was absoultely not revolutionary in 2003, it was in use since 1983. In fact, it was getting replaced because the high-revving engines needed shorter exhausts. The MP4-18 was McLaren's last attempt at the blown diffuser before switching to the very short side exhausts with the MP4-19.
pronunciation of wurz was almost perfect. just more of ts sound at the end instead of the soft s sound you made.. like the end of "Fritz" or the hotel "Ritz"
The kiss will never now how elite Kimi was in his prime.
Adrian Newey was involved in designing my favourite F1 car ever. The Williams FW14B. The car that enabled Nigel Mansell to finally win the World Championship in 1992. He deserves a pass for getting the MP4-18 wrong, for the reason I mentioned, if nothing else!!
And, please don't call me Shirley.
VERTZ you pronounce his name Alexander VERTZ, you're welcome.
0:26 that's Patrick Head, not N.O.
O Alexander wurz passou maus bocados testando esse mp4/18.....cockipt apertadissimo mesmo para um piloto com tamanho mediano(wurz é um piloto muito alto) e o carro tinha tantos problemas de aquecimento do motor,panes hidráulicas e chassi torcia demais causando problemas de suspensao
The title of this video should have been: "the non-honda engined car so bad it shocked mclaren"
Carro lindo mas frágil demais....
MY GUESS is that the car was really bad for the same reason anything made by Lola in 1997 was shit: the wind tunnel wasn't calibrated correctly
Back in 1997, all CART teams wanting to use Lolas and the Lola-MasterCard team all suffered from awful handling in pre-season. It's not that the engineers were trying to use "crazy solutions" or whatever but that the wind tunnel was poorly calibrated and was given inaccurate results. Nobody in CART except for bottom-tier teams used Lolas for 2 whole seasons (in 1996, Newman-Haas, Galles, Coyne, Patrick, Scandia and Tasman teams all used Lolas) and the F1 team died after a single round.
That's why the McLaren MP4/20 was good, they had the right ideas all along
Actually Mika's career was on an ending spiral after a crash in the mid 90s in Australia where he was hurt. McLaren, mostly Ron Dennis, believed Mika still had the champion thread and sought to reinvigorate his motivation. They did this by telling their new driver David Coulthard, Senna's replacement at Williams in 94, to slow down and allow Mika to over take him in a race David would have most definitely won. It was Mika's first win in F1 and worked to revive his desire to drive. in the following years it was Mika who claimed the glory not by out driving David but by being more consistent. For every race David won in a year, which was literally only one or two Mika would win three or four, but also finish in good points paying positions to reinforce his championship challenge and F1 Championships in 98 and 99. In later years David has refuted this story, as well as confirmed it and said he wished he'd never let Mika win that day. I guess it's because it reinforced in his own mind that he was seen as the number two driver at McLaren and would be until Mika's retirement.
So you're saying that Mika's career was on a downward spiral before he ever won a race or championship?? That's some interesting logic you have there....
God you know that you know nothing about F1 when you use a picture of Patrick Head at the start instead of Neil…
I still get nightmares from this car
Why did you not mention the 19 and 20?
You win some, and you lose some. Still, the man record speaks for him
Adrian Newley is the best designer in F1. The only car that was off was MARCH (Max Mosley=M Adrian Newley=A Robin Herd=R and Christian Horner=CH) And after they all left it was Leyton House MARCH. When you mouve to a new team you fix problems from the previous designer. So season 1 is hard for a Designer as you are limited to what you can do in a 1st season. And Newley and Horner are at Red Bull and killing Mercedes today in 2023.
10:48 photo of MP4-19B 😢
Kimi should have won the championship with McLaren at least one time
At 8:03 Jos really looks like Max.
British engineering at its finest! Build things to break!
2 points are not car development that was all down to slick Micheline tyres McLaren and Williams were using.
That hakkinen crash wa sdrom before his championships
Lol at 9:27 It worked to a of point of 300 races wins...🤣🤣
This explains their poor start to the 2004 season.
Why not this issue with the RB18?
newey said the MP4-17D was developed as far as it could go. they literally couldn't make it faster. newey said the 2004 mclaren is exactly the same as the 18
And that's the last we heard from Adrian Newey.
Until Red Bull Racing joins the grid
Not the McLaren we know today. man how times have changed in 3 months
This car was just the result of typical McLaren things😂😂
do the 2015 gp2 mclaren next, or the 2017 car, or the 2018, lol mclaren
Newey not an aerodynamicist only
The MP4-18's blown diffuser was not revolutionary, the Renault RE-40 from 1983 was the first F1 car to feature a blown diffuser. Many teams during the 80's and 90's ran a blown diffuser.
It was actually called MP4-18A.
This was all conveniently left out of his book
Reverso world is going to be shut down too easy.
Kimi was definitely the fastest man in F1 2003-2005. He deserved at least 2 more WDC's.
After his shunt at Adelaide, he went on to win 2 world championships. So the 'putting a dampener on his motivation' statement is wrong.
0:27 thats patrick head not neal oatley
I mean McLaren loves to blame their (usually ones of the greatest) driver during sketchy crashes on tests.
but it is, for me, the best looking Mclaren F1 ever.
Waiting for RB10
the 2015 2016 and 2017 mclaren was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORSEEEEEEEEEE
最初の燃えてる所ってポールのかな?
7:25 it’s pronounced Vertz
How bout a Problematic Driver series? 1st episode: Kimi 'Drunk in Public while Sponsored by Johnny Walker' Raikkonen.
That Hamilton guy has never had a car from that best car designer Aidien Newey or it would be that same old Hamilton guy would be winning most of them dam races again 😂
Would’ve finished behind Renault in 4th if they ran this car.
Great video, but layoff Williams
Your accent seriously sounds Chicagoan.
0:27 - That's Patrick Head, not 'Neil Oatley'....