*Reality check* To what DEGREE are vocals edited in 2024??? Well, THIS is the 'Industry Standard'.
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Tonight we're taking a look at an instructional video from 'Studio Hustlers' showing how pitch correction is used in the current music industry!
Original Video - • Melodyne Tutorial - Ho...
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
3:26 How it Starts - Separating Consonants
6:08 Appreciating the Depth of Editing
6:33 Dragging Notes
8:01 Editing Stylisations - Slides
11:29 Stylisations - Vibrato
13:12 Listen, Don't Look.
15:34 It's an Eye Opener
17:04 Should YOUR Expression Belong to You?
18:36 Final Thoughts
20:48 Are Stringed Instruments Next?!
21:04 My Artistic Choices
For more, check out my other sites! / wingsofpegasus www.wingsofpegasusband.com/ / wingsofpegasus Twitter - @wingsofpegasus Insta - @wingsofpegasusofficial - Zábava
An "industry standard" for cheaters. Bring back "natural" vocal tracks... please.
It is happening doing "squarely" is techinical easy like taking a photo is to do a painting a portrait. Now a day painters have to bring stylistic something that pro photografers cant.
The " cursive" singing and more distorted styles are the contrapoint to the all the singing like a midi sound.
Or, if you do use pitch correction, make sure you acknowledge it in the credits, i.e.;
Betty Boop: pitch corrected vocals
That way, buyers know what they are getting. Not acknowledging it is lying.
I’m dreading the day when bots take over human singing. Very scary.
@@glamgal7106 but then who does the publicity and go on tour? Nobody. I really dont think people will pay to hear a satnav voice doing an album TBH
ChatGPT secretly just wants to be a singer. What's wrong with that?
Back in 2001 I was close friends with producer Linda Perry and consequently got to sit in on numerous recordings by both Pink and Christina Aguilera. While I didn’t see any use of pitch correction in those sessions, the big difference I did see was that Xtina’s vocal track’s were edited together from numerous takes (a standard practice for most artists known as comping). But Pink’s vocals were generally done in one unbroken take. And often it was the first take. I also had the good fortune to watch Dionne Warwick lay down a track. In the middle of the take she said “Stop. I want to start again”. Her son said “Don’t stop mom. We’ll comp it in later”. And Dionne replied “ I’ve never comped a song in my life. And I’m not about to start now”.
👏👏👏
Frank Sinatra was known for doing most of his songs in one take, but during the recording of "That's Life", the producer (who, I believe, was not part of his normal crew) asked him to take it over knowing that he would be annoyed. The second take sounded angrier than the first and that was exactly what the producer intended.
I trained like an old school musician .
You practice and learn the song before you got into the studio..
Applause for Dionne ❤️
I can't stand comping. I'd rather have a slightly imperfect but emotionally authentic performance that I can do from top to bottom.
Yesterday I had the absolute delight of hearing a natural voice in, of all places, a Whole Foods parking lot. I was heading into the store and this guy was heading for his car, just singing to his heart's content, not loud, just for the enjoyment of it. No autotune, no technical enhancements, not even a microphone. Just his pure, natural voice, singing for the joy of it. It was a magical moment.
It really is magical when you listen to someone who is just spontaneously singing to their “heart’s content.”
I would like that to happen often, like in a musical. I do it quite a bit, it would be great if others would feel free enough to join in!
Jeez, the industry standard is more fake than Milli Vanilli , it may not have been them singing but at least it was a human.
My mom never fell for the "I'm doing it because everybody else is doing it" ploy.
Mine did. Fortunately it wasn't a very high cliff.
My mother used to say "If everyone was jumping off Grafton Bridge..." which was close to where she grew up.
Are we related?
There is an interesting phenomenon when all the members of the community are behaving the same. It is called "stampede".
@@emilzd More like herd mentality. Or the bandwagon effect.
Heard Nancy Wilson make a great critical comment. She called it ‘listening with their eyes’.
Imagine as a painter to have a contract that gives your agent the option of 'correcting' your strokes before selling it. And a general consensus among these 'professionals' that they indeed have to correct them to the current norms 'within society'. Impressionism, expressionism and most other art movements would be dead before they could start.
I made a similar point...Cubist paintings corrected to look more realistic, Abstract paintings corrected to look more figurative. No artist would ever agree to that!!
I just sing over and over, until I’m happy with how it sounds
Which is how it should be, even double tracking the vocals & altering the levels. Editing what has been sung is ok as long as the natural voice is still there, not robotic garbage that is like bad CGI in a movie tier.
Vocals are probably the easiest track to punch in another, better take. It can take about the same time as all this computer aided junk, unless the singer just can't sing, or the song is out of range for the singer.
They need to be made to put a warning on the product "This music has been digitally altered to make it sound like we think it should"!
They do that with cigarettes but it didn't seem to bother smokers.
@@laveritaforza108 Apples and oranges, tobacco is an addiction. A notice on music would be to inform the public that they are not really hearing the true singers voice.
@@dougstewart61 Right. But there's possibly a new generation of music fans / addicts who just don't see it as a problem in their " virtual" lives.
@@laveritaforza108 Because we're raising idiots to accept garbage.
@@laveritaforza108 I don't care about modern music. I will put in a law to not touch the old music. Like the eagles performances etc...
As the technology progresses, so does the ability to manipulate. Very disturbing to us regular folk.
They'll do without real singers soon!
Agreed. Pilotless planes. Driverless cars. And singerless singing.
THIS is what scares me.
@@davidcritchley3509 ironically that would be more acceptable not that autotune & pitch shifting for singing should exist. If ppl know a LLM has been used for the "singing" then that will be accepted on that merit. Manipulating someone singing so a producer etc want it to sound "perfect" isn't what should be accepted & should always be rejected. that maybe why I reject all modern music over the last 20 years even if some are by my favourites especially if they have aged & cannot achieve the notes anymore, if they can't do it the neither retire & give the mic to another person or just lay down your songs as best you can.
I saw a hologram concert of Roy Orbison a couple years ago. I went for sheer curiosity over the technology; I liked Roy’s music, but wouldn’t be a serious fan. The hologram certainly sounded just like the records, and looked/moved very real.
But it totally creeped me out. So robotic (duh), no spontaneous remarks or reaction (more duh) to surroundings….and those are the big reasons I go to concerts. I can play the music at home. I want to see the performer in action, off the cuff, hopefully some stories or patter.
I won’t go to any others, no matter how technically perfect they may be. It really was beyond creepy. Hard to describe. What should have been expected, but worse.
You are on a mission, Fil, and it looks like everyone supports it. MTV Unplugged was perhaps the last great mainstream idea to showcase bands and singers that could actually play and sing. How far we have sunk since then. Keep going mate and maybe the support will grow so much that the tide will actually turn. Remember when Queen used to put the statement "no synthesizers" on their early albums? Maybe bands will start stating "no pitch correction" on their latest releases. We can hope!
I think of the Ghostbusters logo with 440 in place of the ghost as a campaign logo...on T-shirts and badges .
Fil has a petition for labeling/transparency in music. I would think that the current bands that don’t use Melodyne would be happy to self label as “organic”.
Live concerts need to be transparent, as well. Nobody wants to pay hundreds of dollars to see bands lip syncing (or hear robotic auto tune).
Milli Vanilli were forced to refund concert tickets and album sales. Please sign Fil’s petition. 🎶
@@SuziQ.Thanks for the tip, I didn't know about Fil's petition. Signed!
@@SuziQ.
Where do I find this petition ?
@@gansosmansos ,
I found it. It’s titled “I HAVE to tell you something,” and was posted 3 months ago. Sadly, it’s not in his community tab, but under the videos tab.
This is why I haven't bought any modern music for a number of years. I hate the 440hhhhhhzbbbbzzz I play flute and would never think of altering the sound after it was recorded. Great video 2x👍
What a lot of work correcting vocals. Just sign artists who can sing! I'm glad that I have the old recordings of my favorite singers. Thanks for the analysis.❤
It is easier to fix vocals than charisma.
Many many years ago a producer removed all the breathing sound on A Streisand album. She was not happy and told him to restore the actual sound
She was a perfectionist and could tell if it was off by 1/4 octaves
@@bartschwartz9233 Needs more /s?
Can't tell you how much I love it when Fil sings. What a voice, what a gift, hits me right in the feels.
This probably explains why many recent artists sound similar. I feel very out of touch with music these days. When I listen to current, mainstream pop recordings I have a hard time telling them apart. In the 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s it was pretty easy to tell from the first few notes who you were listening too. Long live the independent artists, the singer songwriters and the open-mic-night grinders who can still sing a melody line with thought, feeling and heart. When these new “artists” try to make money at their live concerts even auto-tune won’t be able save their performances when the lips and the pre-recorded vocal track get out of sync. SMH
We all don’t sound similar
I'm certain there will be a Grammy Award for the "Best Pitch Correction or Auto-Tune" Performance. I am not sure if I am kidding or not. Love all these videos. I will say it is a very rare thing for me to spend any money for music. I have not spent a cent on music of any genre or media. What I collected from the 70's to about 2005 is all I need. Thanks Fil!
The 'industry' is a business. It is not interested in anything except making money.
"I'm using it because everyone else is..." brings to mind something my mum used to say to me, which I used to repeat to my kids and they now repeat to theirs... "If they jumped off a cliff, would you?"
Not even lemmings do that, despite what Walt would have us believe...
@@peterhaslund Those poor lemmings. I was SO upset when, aged around 7, I saw them all swimming out to their death. A few years ago when I learnt that WD had made the whole thing up I was absolutely shocked. That was the end of WD for me!
My mum taught me that too 😊
And this is why I am so glad I kept all my albums and cds because now I don't trust any music produced today.
I have finally, after 4 decades in the industry, achieved the state of "Meh"
I read books and listen to old vinyl/tape now o.o
Thanks to you, now “meh” has a new meaning LOL! 😂
By watching this kind of videos, now I feel annoyed for using melodyne occasionally (2% I'd say of my entire work). I didn't have enough time (money) to spend in a studio and sing as many times as necessary in order to hit the 100% of the right notes. My anxiety also played against myself. And I let myself be convinced by the producer to check everything is right. He usually uses Melodyne. I didn't think it was bad, because my voice sounds natural in my recordings in terms of timbre, expression, intention, emotions...I can say without a doubt "that'me!". I feel I sound the same as when I sing live (obviously without considering mixing things like eq, compression, etc). However, then I started to care about the moral issue of this. Sometimes, It didn't bother me. In other cases, I preferred to record the critical part again or I just accepted the defect. I think it's unfair to consider artificial every single voice for using melodyne. It depends on the case. There's a huge huge difference between using it for some ocassional detuning and using it to correct most of the song in order to manage a extremely perfect pitch, which is lack of humanity for that robotic sound. Anyway, I won't use this tool anymore. I don't want this moral issue again in my mind. These videos affected me seriously. From now on, instead of 98% human, my voice recordings will be 100% human in every song.
Ultimately, it will be easy for an AI to take over, so you don't need any musicians anymore. The biz kills itself.
Computers will never be able to jam.
I had the same thought. The greedy music industry just cut out the "middle man" which is the human person. It goes downhill from there...
Proof that not all technologies are good for us. My advice is to support local music!
Thanks Fil, now I understand why today’s music is soooooo tedious and boring! 😑 I hope I live long enough to see the music industry finally reject this approach and move on. Soon I hope….
Kudos to you for sticking to authentic music, and rejecting the “manufactured” version.
Fil, this was definitely a reality check ! This process seems like a lot of work to make the human voice sound less pleasing. I don't like the fact that truly great singers who have worked for years on their voice are now being compared to others who have not put in the difficult work and time necessary to develop their voice! I find that a very sad fact! Excellent and informative video ! Thank you, Fil ! 💜
I still love to hear natural vocals warts and all. I occasionally use correction, but very rarely. It’s why music pre auto tune sounds better!
Working harder to make something more terrible is the most modern thing ever.
It's not hard work. Money is saved in studio time...no hours of singer re-takes. The 'producer' can edit this on a tablet while he takes a sh1t.
A good singer doesn’t need to do endless retakes. That is the whole point: all these modern day Popstars can’t sing properly.
Engineers using their eyes instead of their ears is how you end up with the absurdity of great historical performances by amazing singers now being needlessly “corrected”
This is why I only listen to music pre 2000! Fil is spot on that the sound engineers need to leave the natural sounds of the voice alone!
It started in the 90s...sorry.
Melodyne was founded in 2000. Auto tune existed prior to that, but it’s really easy to hear its robotic artifacts (which is why so many of us who are used to organic music find it so painful to hear).
Addit: Watch out for remastered versions of classics, though!
@@SuziQ. Fils said it began at the time when Cher recorded 'I Believe', released in 1998.
@@tootz1950 ,
Autotune existed before Cher used it as an effect, but it had a different application (in radio).
Melodyne (a different tool) was released at the 2001 NAMM show. Fil’s recent videos have been focused on the use and abuse of Melodyne.
@@SuziQ. So they're going to mess with voices like Sinatra and Streisand? Whose voices are fine the way they are?
Hi Fil,
Interesting look at Melodyne today. It seems it takes longer to do these edits than I realized. Now having more closely looked at the process, I guess we are not looking so much at a time or money saving effort as it is to just make everyone “on the same level”. But this kind of thinking is disheartening to those of us who worked hard and spent many hours to hone and train our voice. Thanks for an in-depth explanation of how this software works and is being used in the music industry today. Great job! Debbie☮️
Well said ! My thoughts exactly!
Fil, I began watching you a couple of years ago as entertainment, but now I consider you one of the best TEACHERS I've ever had. Thank you again and again. -keep at it! Jimmy C.
Thanks for the kind words!
@@wingsofpegasusPhil most of this singers excuse my french suck what happen to all the great singers because you know it and i know it doesn't exit !
Hey Fil, when you mentioned it was "harder" to sing before pitch correction, which is likely true, but also those singers learned to sing and sound much better, on average, than many current singers. My 21 year old daughter can easily pick out pitch corrected tracks and prefers older songs partiality for this reason. The intricacy of older music also plays a factor.
I'm afraid with AI getting better exponentially, we may not be able to tell the difference in the not too distant future, which is a VERY SAD THOUGHT.
Pitch correction at this level is just scary IMHO. The is no room for the singer to add their touch and micro-pictch variations.
Very interesting!
Some of the best vocals I’ve heard in the last 20 years are in the church. There are some fantastic vocalists that don’t want to be mainstream or rich. They just sing because they love to sing. I haven’t turned a radio on in years. As a matter of fact, I don’t own one! The one in the car is never on. I wouldn’t know what to turn it to! lol 😂
I am so grateful I have also known real, genuine humans who can actually sing with no trickery! One of them sadly passed away a few years ago. She had the most gorgeous voice I've ever heard. I know it was real because 1) I knew her long before this technology came along and 2) I spent time with her and heard her singing just casually in the house, in the car, etc. She was also one of those rare singers who didn't seem to warm up. She'd wake up in the morning and sound great. (Dontcha hate that? LOL!)
Great advice, Fil! "because it's sound, you've got to listen to it rather than looking at it"
How many modern signers are putting their trust in those producers and audio engineers on this subject I wonder? Where they might have gone, 'oh hang on a minute, that doesn't sound right' and then were pushed to trusting the production decision?
Perfect!! I was just wondering this exact same thing! I'm just a casual listener, not a singer or musician, but I learn SO much from your channel!! I did just find a 2 year old video of yours explaining the difference, but this is simplified so that even a novice will understand. Thanks SO much!
TY Fil - It's little wonder I rarely listen to any 'music' created in the last 20 or so years. Life is too short to listen to manipulated, poor music.
When I hear too much of the processed vocals... I turn to Adele for sweet relief of it all. Keep it up, Fil ❤
I agree with you one hundred percent. For my song parodies, I will sing a line as many times as it takes until I'm happy with it. I'm really good at pitch, but I sometimes need to work on my rhythm, cadence, phrasing, and other choices to get the effect I'm going for. I will sometimes deliberately pick a take that isn't "perfect" pitch-wise if I got the vibe I want. At least I know that when the listener hears that imperfection, they'll know it's a real vocal performance and not a computer ticking a box.
The reasons why are a larger discussion, but very soon “singers” will simply be models pitching vocal tracks 100% created by AI-driven plug-ins. We are, of course, already at least halfway there.
I remember David Cassidy saying that when he went to record, he sang the song and then "THEY" did whatever they wanted with it. That was in the 1960'S. Great show, I'm, at 69, learning a lot. Thank you
They sped up David's voice so it was higher. He said that it sounded like he was castrated!😂
@@atreb56 Goodness! Thank you
This video made me think of the song Oh! Darling off Abbey Road. Paul sung that for at least a week. He wanted his voice to sound that way. He put in the work.
I agree. It was harder back then. Sometimes it would take multiple takes or there'd be even fluctuations in tempo, such as Bold As Love by Jimi Hendrix and multiple other examples....
It's really sad what's happened to music...
Pitch manipulation started in the 1940's when studio engineers produced pitch correction by tweaking a reel-to-reel magnetic tape recorders varispeed. In the 50's and '60s engineers altered the pitch by slowing down or speeding up a part of a recording and splicing with the tape containing the majority of the song. Another method of varispeed pitch correction was to slow a tape machine down, re-record a new part at a lower pitch, and then bring the recording back up to its original speed. I owned an 8 track reel to reel with variable speed control. Doing multiple takes to correct pitch is pitch correction. There may have been a handful of singers that were able to record in one take. If a singer did two or more takes to correct their pitch that is pitch correction. When I was recording in a studio in Switzerland in the mid '70's the engineer told me that they did pitch correction all the time and it was very time consuming. The difference now is that they use pitch correction software rather than have to spend hours in the studio doing multiple takes to correct pitch. This is like the pot(not you Fil) calling the kettle black, it's been happening for years.
To me, calling multiple takes to get the right sound "by The Singer" pitch correction, is really stretching the point. And still doesn't come close to what is being discussed here🤨
@@helenmckeetaylor9409 I didn't say multiple takes to get the sound right, I said multiple takes to correct the pitch and doing so is pitch correction. A singer who sings pitch perfect to the human ear can get away with one take. Currently many singers do one or two takes and the engineer corrects the pitch using software. If the singer is against using software then the engineer will do additional takes using punch-in punch-out to parts of the song that's off pitch like they did years ago with reel to reel and that is also pitch correction. It's nothing to do with sound mixing. Auto-tune on the other hand corrects the pitch in real time and is used more during live performances.
@@helenmckeetaylor9409Not true!! When I first started in the industry I was hired to pitch and time correct vocals using a combination of comping varispeed and physical tape edits. Pitch correction Software mimics and automates this old manual process and is no different. The idea that singers did not have their vocals manipulated is a fallacy, and just a reinforced cognitive bias as people what videos like this (which is amazingly good btw) and feel they are an sound engineering expert. If people heard the raw tapes of artists who were deemed to be great singers for the 80s and 90s they would be shocked how out of tune (not in a good way). Actually at times I used to be pitch correct the backing track or certain instruments as match the singer as they sometimes practice the song on a backing track which is different to that used at the session. So there brain has trouble matching the pitching of the voice to updated instruments. Also currently if you produce music electronically everything is even temperament tuned, a lot real instruments and human voices can freely express frequencies that actually correspond to the actual natural correct frequency of a note. I believe this is the main reason female and male harmony groups have disappeared as when great singers sing together they sing the true frequencies of a note and not the even tempered notes. Then you get sympathetic resonance that sound great. Modern producers don’t understand the difference between even tempered notes frequencies and the natural frequencies of notes. And pitch correct harmonies to a even tempered scale which never sounds as good as the live performance due to the dissonant harmonics introduced. So the issue is not with melodyne it’s with producers lack of musical knowledge.
Yes, to be fair, Andy did mention something to the effect of not applying too much Melodyne because the vocals start sounding inhuman. I could be dead wrong on this, but I had the feeling that Andy was giving the message that Melodyne wasn’t the be all end all option, but it was an option. I agree with what you said: if you like what you hear, don’t change it. It’s pointless to alter/edit the sound for the sake of it. You made an excellent point when you said that it must be taking additional time to edit with pitch correction and auto tune when it’s not necessary. I find it pointless to do this to the great singers and musicians…it takes away the artistry and expression. What’s next-the music industry will have bots singing instead of humans as the standard? You made another great point about music being more difficult years ago-yes, musicians and singers had to be more accurate. Truth be told, as a musician myself, I’d go for accuracy, artistry, and ability over fakery from technology. Thanks for a very informative analysis on the use of Melodyne and for all you do, Fil.
I'm a bit curious about the possible use of pitch correction in a movie from 2015 called "I Saw the Light" (Hank Williams biopic) because the actor performed all the songs himself, with reportedly little previous singing experience (but with intense training for the movie, I think approx 5 months...) He also performed one song live playing the guitar during a party and it sounds pretty good to me! The guy is Tom Hiddleston and the song you can find both "studio" and "live" is "Why don't you love me". I'm not requesting a full analisys video, your quick opinion here will do 😊 (well... if you can/want of course).
Back when I was younger, I was attacked, and had my throat crushed... as a "message". It was because I was trying to warn people, of what we're seeing in the world today. I would up as a part of something I had no idea was it was- and when I found out, it terrified me. I've spent much of my life since, trying to warn of what was coming. This, basically, ended my singing career, as one might guess. It took me well over a decade to get to a point I could actually sing somewhat again, but I have "blank" spots in my voice still, from the damage.
With Melodyne? I could totally fix that, AND probably become a decent enough "singer" again, to actually make some money at it. Except I won't. I explained why in the last video- so I'll spare folks that text wall again.
THAT is how "good" the software has become, and how effective it can be. Also, I hated the "robotic" sound it produces, because it makes a vocal performance soul-less to me.
So WHY is this now the, "industry standard". Well, think about it. Very few people can ACTUALLY SING. And I mean, are actual artists. You're either born with the gift, or you're not. Now, a person CAN, through extremely hard work, BECOME a singer? But the mass majority will never put in that kind of effort.
People want EASY. People want FREE. And people want NOW. It's actually quite grotesque to me, but that's just my opinion.
But this opens up the market to make BILLIONS more, because now you have a MASSIVE pool to draw from- The industry can hand pick the LOOK they want, the STYLE they want, and the POLITICAL OPINION they want promoted. And so that's what they've done.
Far more people can carry a basic tune. With things like Melodyne? Now they can be turned into robotic artists for propaganda, agendas, and for ideologies- and these people will do it, because it makes them RICH.
THIS is the real reason the "industry" is embracing the bullshit, and dismissing the actual talent.
Luckily, we DO have independent artists out there, many of whom when I find them on say CZcams? I try to promote them the best I can. Needless to say, my points of view get me censored.. pretty much everywhere. I'm basically relegated to posting comments these days.
And that's fine with me. We have people like Fil out here- younger, who has a set of balls, and whos' willing to SHOW THE WORLD THE TRUTH- regardless of what "The Industry" might think.
Keep it up, brother. You're doing great. - And there's far more that can be done with Melodyne that what people just saw. I'll bet you could take a natural sound that's occurring in the key of say.. "C"? And make it sound like a real singer. Would take a bit, but I'm pretty sure it could be convincingly done.
You are missing all the artists that sings greatly. That don't want autotune. But the record companies fo not care - they still forces use of autotune.
Your claim it's just so they can select artists freely from a larger pool doesn't explain why they would upload adjusted audio to all of Queen's videos as if Freddie Mercury needs help because he couldn't be bothered to learn how to sing properly.
Nope - this is tuning just because it's easy. And bubble brains working for the record companies thinks it makes the music better.
@@perwestermark8920 I don't have to. Fil already did that. They are bringing ACTUAL artists DOWN to the level of those, they actually WANT in their stables- trying to make them equal.
Fil's dead on, on that part. No clarification needed.
Spot on. For me I trace this "beginning of the end" back to the launch of MTV and the notion that style is more important than substance began. Carrying that through brought us to Pop Idol etc. and the packaging of good looking "stars."
Not sure if this is your intention Fil, but I am learning so much about singing from your vids. Totally engaging!
Many thanks!
When I get to publish my own songs I will label them " PC free !" :)
always impress me with your singing skills Fil
Anyone else always amazed whenever Fil so unassumingly demonstrates all these vocal techniques. Different vibrato, controlling the width? Wow.
In short, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Lots of the current 'pop stars' can't carry a tune in a bucket...
Hi Fil😃 Thank you for this informative instructional video about Melodyne software😃👍 I see all the production value in this but what's going to happen when these artists go out on the road and attempt to try to reproduce this live? It's going to get to the point where the artists are going to have to mime the actual song being recorded on stage. Is anyone willing to purchase a ticket to watch an artist mime what was recorded? I have read all the comments... I'm 66 years old and I believe that this is a travesty for the music industry that is becoming the norm and the young people of today just take it at face value. Have a great day and once again thank you for all your instructional videos... they're fantastic 😃👍
It’s as simple as a “double-click”. Wow….that IS EASY! 😳
I just don't understand why vocalists stand for this. Try telling a lead guitarist or a saxophonist you're going to pitch correct their performance and you'd probably get a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. And a fair amount of fruity language. I feel lucky that I've been in the position that for 95% of the time I've had complete control over the production on my vocals. They may not be perfectly pitched, but they're my artistic and emotional expression, and my sound.
There is a scene in the movie '1984' where it shows how all music is now fake. We're almost there.
Just starting this book today
@@kimberlygould5659 The book is great and thought provoking about the world we live in. It also makes the movie better if/when you watch it because there will be little things in the movie that make more sense if you have read the book.
I’m from an older generation and hear old songs and tell my granddaughter that’s one of my favorite singers. How would you look back now and choose. I know there are still very good singers out there today but my list is pretty long. How long is the list now?
The industry standard is now total synthetic music 😂
There is a popular group of singers as an "a capella" vocal group. Once they came in the studio to record a new song, but they hadn't rehearsed enough and they were not quite well prepared for the recording. They did one take, then the recordning engineer told them to do another take, because the first one wasn't good. They told him: " You correct it and make it sound good. We don't have time for that. We are having an interview now and after that we are giving a concert presenting the new album." Their live singing always sucks, btw.
Who?
@@justaguy12345 There is only one popular acapella vocal group right now.
Why do I sit and think Pentatonix right now? 🤔
@@perwestermark8920 Correct.
@@justaguy12345 It was one of the folk singing groups in Croatia called "klapa".
It's this simple for me...I like it natural, even if flat or sharp sometimes. If some artists want pitch correction, they are free to do so...
This was a very interesting and informative video! Thank you, Fil, for another amazing analysis, and congrats on another 1000 subscribers! Rock! 🙂
Hey Tammy. Ever seen "Morisette" Live 107.5 Wish FM ? She sings a cover that would put a smile on Fil's face. ✌
She was a fantastic singer- weather u liked her or not but a true professional 😊
Thank you for explaining so clearly.
I am not even yet 10 minutes in and I'm already horrified. What does this do for the motivation for anyone taking voice lessons and practicing to improve their singing skills? Why bother?!
This is so depressing. I've already found myself doing my vocal exercises less and less. Why bother? Voice lessons were taken from me during Covid anyway.
Sorry to be a downer. But this is really hitting me hard. I love music. I adore singing.
Keep singing. Natural voices sound so much better than Melodyned voices.
You nailed it when you said that the goal is to bring not as great singers up closer to the great ones.
And it's economics. There are a lot, lot more very good singers than there are great singers. So add in a bunch more supply and it depresses the cost of musical acts, because there's so easily replaceable.
As a German I‘m really proud of the guys who invented the software. I think it was invented to correct a single wrong note of a harp in a song. Because that was pure genius. But the extent to which artists use it is evil 😅
Nope, first note "corrected" and real music stops
Great analysis, Fil! I love Melodyne because you can dial in as much or as little correction as you like. It's easy to go overboard and lots of people do, but to me it's a blessing to have these amazing tools. My rule is to only fix the things that I can *hear* that are just killing me and that I know will bother me every time I hear them. Everything else I just leave it the heck alone. But that's just me. I get that over-correction is very much part of the sound of our times. I don't like it but if that's someone else's artistic choice, so be it.
The other comment I have is that these tools can really help singers develop and improve their sense of pitch if they're motivated to do so.
If you think your voice in Melodyne looks shaky, compare with a bass note or guitar note. You'll see that even a perfectly tuned instrument has a lot of sway in each notes.
Great update as always Fil
That Melodyne tutorial seems to be 4 years old. In current version of Melodyne, I think it automatically recognizes and separately manages consonants.
If it hasn’t been suggested before, check out Ren. Particularly any of his duets with Chinchilla. He’s big on continuous take live performances and the lack of auto tuning is what makes the songs perfection.
Yes, I've been recommending Chalk Outlines (live) by Ren and Chinchilla for awhile now. I hope we see it here one day. This song really connects emotionally, in a way that could never happen if their voices were being snapped to the notes.
A horrifying experiment would be to take a singer who is successful but not a great singer, such as Neil Young or Bob Dylan and pitch correct a piece of that vocal. I doubt you'd want to listen to it. I can't imagine a pitch perfect After the Gold Rush or Like a Rolling Stone. I'm sure I wouldn't like it.
Not a great singer ? They have different singing styles
@@kojoefante Neil is almost flat. When they were making the Canadian version of LiveAid, called Northern Lights for Africa, David Foster who was producing stopped at one point and said, "You're a little flat Neil." Neil said, "That's my style."
They are both amazing song writers but Bob's songs always sound better sung by Joan Baez.
If I worked in highway maintenance and filled a pot-hole, would you expect someone to appear after me to flatten out the tarmac, etc., to 'correct' it? Ok, yes, you probably would if the repair was not level or shoddy, but would you then expect me to keep my job and keep being paid to do the same sort of bad job performance?
This is, thankfully, not a problem in classical music or in jazz. This sort of digital manipulation is really the death of pop music.
I am a fan of imperfection in art. Without it, it’s sterile, boring.
Way back in the days of digital infancy, producers would have artists sing the actual recordings ('The real Milli Vanilli'), before others did lip-sync ('Milli Vanilli'). 30 years later we're just waiting for Artificial Artists. Which would be indistinguishable from Miss Swift.
At this point, Milli Vanilli deserve an apology from the music industry AND the fans!
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
I love my 60s and 70s music. I grew up listening to songs with no arrangement to sound better. Music was great back then. Thanks Fil for your expertise.❤
I’m glad I don’t need to use it, yet! 😛
Just because we can doesn’t mean we should.
This is deception .It seems we don't live in a real world any more. Thank you for all your lessons and making us aware of the manipulations that go on in the music industry. I will continue to listen to my old vinyl. Thanks again.
That's exactly what it is. And the "better" technology gets, the worse it will be.
Totally agree we are over correcting for vocals in 2024. We need to get back to foundational great singers singing live. There are definitely groups that do so, but on any kind of TV production is kind of hard to avoid some level of correction that happens by the producers of the shows. I would love to see you react to what I think is a phenomenal singer actually a couple maybe you have. I have checked on your channel or from I think our phenomenal singers that sing live with minimal tuning happening to their pitch correction happening to their voices there’s lots of lives Fan videos of their concerts. Great to see you react to them.
Great, informative video Filip!
Always great stuff from this channel Fil
You realise that a lot of young people view the very concept of “analysis” as being intense or a thing of “hating”
Before one would even get INTO the issue of the analysis. Young people are just turned off at the idea of taking something and analysing it.
Analysing something is akin to “HATING” something now. So glad I don’t come from today’s generation.
The music and the musicians that I grew up around could stand up to criticism being so authentic and genuinely talented and more importantly PRECIOUS about the work they produced
Anyway. An Idea for a video I would like you to maybe look at doing would be a GENERAL sweep of the charts Fil.
Even at my old age of 41 I still like to find new music and artists . As painful as it is, the scouting process can be very rewarding when I come across a little diamond amongst the rough
But I would love for you to take a brief OVERVIEW of the top 20 global or UK download charts from time to time to illustrate a few things about modern day industry standard vocal tracks
Because I am noticing that is almost a COMPLETE shutout in terms of usage now. Meaning. Pitch correction is applied to at least 99% of modern day vocals
I would say that 70% of them are used as a very VULGAR SOUND EFFECT while the other 29% are used subtly in the hopes of conning the listener into thinking the singer hit these notes so accurately
Country & Western just sounds like southern CYBERMEN now 😂
Rap artists use it EXTREMELY to the point COMEDY
pop musicians are the ones trying to SLIP it in but not subtly enough for anyone with an ear for it
But yeah. Just skim over the spotify charts in a video fil.
Maybe make a QUIZ of it? Play the first 10 seconds of a vocal and let your subscribers guess whats going on in a live video maybe
I like this idea. I had heated discussions with my nephew when he listened to auto tuned pop, and refused to believe that voices don’t make that robotic sound. Now he’s into country music, which I never could stand. I wonder if it’s real country music, or what you described. I’m thinking it’s the latter. I think most of his generation don’t know that they’ve been hearing auto tune since the boy bands were popular. Melodyne is more insidious, because it flattens the notes, and removes the emotion from the songs (and it’s not as easy to hear as auto tune is).
@@SuziQ. yeah. Shame isnt it SuziQ.
I think country is country if the singer has a HAT on and there is the hint of a slide guitar in there somewhere
I mean I can say none of it is authentic anything , this and that. Blah blah.
But the truth is that…kids just dont perceive music in the same way as we do/did. Its just this THING they hear along with tiktok vids etc
Its sad from OUR perspectives because we had such a fun lifetime with it. But to them, its NOT sad. Its just..
The WAY it is
I feel we are in a similar PARADIGM shift of cultures as they were in the 1950’s as rock n roll was brought to the masses
Parents and children suddenly became ALIENS to one another.
I think THIS is where we are now. I actually dont think this shift is AS drastic as that one in the 50’s actually.
That one was the original DIVIDER of the family unit. The BIRTH of the “teenager”
Before then. Teenagers were not just EXPECTED to be these stroppy, out of control delinquents they are since then.
That was down to rock n roll.
Culture creation
Gone wayy off topic sorry 😂 pissed
Modern technology applied to the singing voice removes the human heart from the artist- the very thing that connects the listener to artist. When Judy sang Rainbow 8 minutes into the film the listener fell for Judy with or without your permission . Her sound is the sound the heart could make if it had a sound. I’m glad they recorded her natural voice in 39. They would’ve ruined her singing voice if she recorded it today’s industry standard . I still believe our hearts can’t connect to an artist if they don’t have talent because somehow public can hear the corrections . Authentic singing our hearts can still pick up on technology . I’m an eternal optimist .
I'm a singer-songwriter/producer/educator. My recording goal is to rehearse a song until its sounds good on "tape." I'll do a few takes, then comp the best phrases from each take, whether it be voice or other instruments. Finally, I will pitch correct one or two notes that may be noticeably off. If there are serious issues, the track needs to be re-recorded. Before digital pitch correction, multiple takes were conducted and there were punch-ins to replace mistakes, so I don't feel my workflow is cheating. For me, I think the real question is . . . could I reproduce a performance live? If so, sweet. If no, I'm a freakin' fraud.
Wow! You are getting so good at explaining this and educating us. Thank You. This may be your best video to explain pitch correction and autotune and what I'd use to explain to musicians I want to educate.
yesterdays listening for me was Nina S, Billy Holiday, Sarah Vaughan, Madeleine Peyroux all on vinyl followed by Cowboy Nation on CD Would love to see a vid on the Kinman brothers singing ability...
With some of The Warning's recent releases I've not actually been that keen when I've heard the studio version in the music video, but then I've fallen in love with the song when I hear a live version. I wonder if this is part of the reason?
Fabulous once again Fil....but very disturbing.
meanwhile I'm obsessed with the 2 pre-chorus of Travis 'song "Coming Around"
"The music suffers. The music business thrives." Paul Simon
The Matrix is now real for music. 💔 Thank you for teaching us, Fil. I appreciate your authenticity.
Now, this is interesting. I'm not a singer; I play the euphonium, both in bands and as a soloist. Because of several characteristics of the instrument, starting with the fact that the natural overtone series is not going to be perfectly in tune with the A440 tempered scale, the euphonium has a number of notes that aren't quite "on the line," and must be corrected by lipping up or down, using alternate valve fingerings, or using a trigger-operated tuning slide (which my horn does not have). I would love to see what Melodyne could do to a solo euphonium recording. I'm just not quite ready to shell out $250 for what might be only a one-time experiment.
I hope that one day you'll turn your attention to Gloria Estefan, if only to highlight her extraordinary talent.
Thank you Fil for explaining the use of Melodyne being used as a music industry standard. It was very informative. 😊🎸🎵
What about vocals on remastered and/or remixed, albums made 30+ years ago? Are they pitch corrected? With or without the singers permission? (Some of them are dead).
Most sound significantly different, but how much is the artist vs. bigger manipulation? How much difference does the Re-done version make?
I can hear differences in various instruments on the “re-done” version, but not so sure about the vocals…
You’ve probably addressed this before; if anyone can help me find (I’ve looked) giving big thanks in advance!
Great question!
What you are wondering about is happening Betty and Fil has done some exposés on this precise practise of applying auto-tune to older recordings. Send an email to your local political representative and complain that you are being defrauded by the music labels. It is only when enough people scream about it that corrective action will be taken.
@@ToddSauve, Fil has a petition. I signed it. The remasters are being Melodyned, not auto tuned, though. Auto tune is built into microphones, and was originally used as an effect (that echoey sound we hear in a lot of the boy bands, and in its extreme, Cher’s “Believe”.)
As an orchestral musician, I'm pissed when some tech jerk "corrects" my pitch and volume in post production.
You are a treasure Fil ! Thank you so much for your channel. I keep hoping Pitch Correction is just a fad and it will go away … people will rebel at some point and refuse to do this 😰 I keep hoping ✌🏼
Thanks for another awesome video! 🙏🏽 Would love your analysis of miming on Ken Tamplin channel… he claims they are ‘not mimed’ 🤔
This explains why I cannot stand modern audio product anymore...
I still love music though.