So it's official. NOBODY knows what MUSIC is any more.
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Tonight we're taking a look at a couple of vocal examples to see what's going on!
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
2:33 Performance (Meryl Streep)
4:33 Meryl’s Vocal Technique
5:23 Auto-Tune vs. Pitch Correction
8:09 The Problem with A440 for Vocals
12:40 Part 2 - The Problem
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We ought to demand a label advising auto tune is used, like hormones and artificial ingredients on food labels. 😄 Very interesting, Fil! 👍🏻
Good thought... I was thinking something akin to sports-enhancing drugs/hormones.
Truth in music labeling. I love it. This is a fantastic idea.
Perhaps we could go still further: DANGER AUTOTUNE. Hazardous to good taste.
Yes! Perhaps a website at least with a listing and warning.
@@SC-jh9qp haha, that would just make it sell better.
Autotune... the death of natural timbre.
The death of blue notes
The death of music! 😢
The death of individual expression and character.
it wasn't synthesizers? autotune is hella g-hey
Jon Anderson FTW! Still amazing at eighty, without ever using autotune!
People need to understand that a good singer does not need to be perfect. So just let the imperfections come through. That's art. Don't ruin it by perfecting it.
Perfection can also be art. Autotune used correctly as it has been throughout extremely popular song isn't bad.
The point is that nowadays most big productions have one autotune preset to just make whatever instead of as a simple tool.
This! Not to mention they slam it to 100% speed instead of only using it in egregious pitch issues or at a lower level to preserve some character of the original track.
My first experience in a recording studio, the engineer told me "I like to make things sound perfect."
Never worked with him again and the final product was just sterile and lifeless to my ears.
@warpbeast69 "Perfection can also be art."
Yes it can, and I'm really bored of it.
Actually the only thing that ruins art is critics like you telling people there's a right and wrong way to DO ART!!! HOW DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE THE IRONY OF YOUR COMPLAINTS!!!!!!
I was talking to a live sound guy who used AutoTune live, saying "it's not to elevate bad performances to good, it's bringing good up to excellent."
I said "I don't know, I think it makes everybody sound equally mediocre."
Now that, my friend, is 100% true.
@@ioeee7563 Phil-Would really like for you to check out Diana Ross's recordings. Jackie Mills (Larabee Sound) and the engineers at the Selma in LA told me that Diana sang FLAT by about a quarter tone to almost a half step, each note, and that ALL of her recordings had to be adjusted! Did they have a form of "auto tune" backin the 70's, by a different "electronic recording NAME" or do you think these were just engineers LYING to me? In order to inspect it you'd have to gain access to the original recordings, wouldn't you---to see if they had ever been adjusted ?? Thanks.
"Don't Let me be Lonely Tonight' original-FredGold&LyndaFaye(solo and the duo)
Copyrighted before James Taylor's !
"I Fall to Pieces With a Touch of Class" RAW VOICE RECORDINGS FOR DIANA !
Yes agreed. Its sad this is happening. Voices are not supposed to sing exactly to equal tempered pitches. Thank god this doesn't happen in classical music, it would reck the industry as everything would sound bland.
"If everyone's super, nobody is..." said wise man long time ago... :)
@@Mtaalas bruh they got ai patrick singing korn, might wanna rethink that, oh and that same program works for instruments, you just program the voice with a bunch of sounds from your instrument of choice, and now whatever you sing can sound like anyone or anything, this also works for making tapping noises or whatever into pretty decent sounding drums, depending on the drum audio you choose to upload
There is beauty in imperfection. Autotune removes the beauty.
Therefore autotune is imperfect? And hence it is beautiful?
No. It removes the imperfection. Auto tune is anti humanity. O bueno.
@@highonimmi so perfection is anti-humanity? Would something totally imperfect be pro-humanity? Like a pile of rubble and dirt, say? Whereas a perfect cube is anti-human?
I play some blues harmonica. If I play a blues riff on a diatonic harmonica using draw bends to achieve certain notes, it has a certain sound and feel to it. Those draw bins evoke an emotional response. If I play that same riff on a chromatic harmonica without bends, playing exactly the same notes, it will not have the same sound / feel, nor will it evoke the same emotional response.
Or try playing Delta blues on a guitar without using a slide. Yes you can play the same notes, but it won't even come close to sounding the same.
It is the imperfections in the human voice, those breaks, pitch wobbles, slides into and out of notes that makes a singers voice unique. These things help convey / evoke emotion. When you change/remove them, you change/remove the emotion that the singer is trying to convey.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that Auto-Tune sucks the soul out of a piece of music and makes it generic. I don't know about you, but I really don't want to listen to generic music.
No. it removes perfection. The human voice / expression is not limited to an arbitrary 12-tone note system.
I love raw voices. The tones, the screw ups, the little nuances that are lost to auto tune. It’s a miserable future when every damn singer sounds the same.
Perfectly sums up my thoughts about this!
@@lyndafaye6748Screw Simon Cowell! He is another who only cares about the $$$ he can make!
@@lyndafaye6748, Why are you posting the same extremely long comment on every thread?
Exactly, and here we are today, where 95% of musicians sound the same.
I love how classically trained singers are recorded often without the tons of reverb etc. in classical music (what you get in pop/rock music). When an musician is extremely good, all those tiny ""mistakes"" become the part of the instrument/vocal character. When voice has very little processing those details can be heard.
Autotuning an old recording, and re-releasing it, is like taking a masterpiece painting and asking an AI to fix the brush strokes, then displaying it in galleries.
Meryl Streep literally sounds like Glados from Portal. 😂
Ikr. I'm usually not good at noticing autotune unless it's meant to be noticeable. But this actually sounded like GLaDOS.
LMAO
It's like changing word choices in Roald Dahl books to "update" them after he's dead and can do nothing to stop it. Outrageous.
Excellent analogy.
Yes and no. It's like when Ted Turner was colorizing all the old classics. Some people will like it, some people won't, but we live in a digital era, so really we have options. It would be interesting to see a good artist release an album bundle in two formats, one autotuned and one not, so people could hear the difference. As long as the singer was strong enough to pull it off, it seems like a pretty good way to produce a lot of extra content for your fans without any extra work.
I tracked vocals with some producer, and even tough my performance was on pitch, he automatically put autotune on my voice, without even asking me first. I had put lots of emotions in my performance, and the autotune was totally destroying it. I told him to remove the autotune, and he looked at me like I was an alien. Needless to say, I'm not working with him anymore.
Good
He pobably was born in the 90s so that's all he knows.
These things are important to talk about with your producer prior to working with them. When my band recorded our album we made sure the producer was comfortable recording a live rock band off the floor with no click, limited edits and no vocal tuning. Getting on the same page beforehand makes the whole process easier as everyone knows whats expected.
Doesn't matter what they're using, if you don't agree with it it shouldn't be a thing. Glad you aren't encouraging what you are not for.
that's kinda on you for flipping out. autotune is fine, you just prefer to sing without it, which is fine. even though you can put any emotion you want in it, it's still just music, nobody with half a brain cares if you used autotune, you could be a terrible singer, just shut up and sing the best songs, that's why we let you in here. musicians always have too many opinions. work smarter not harder for one. and again, there is nothing wrong with autotune, some of the best singers in the world love it. you actually just flipped out on some random producer is what happened.
Autotuning a group of singers literally squashes the natural chorus effect that gives such a richness to the sound.
... but then the engineers go back in and add slight detuning. Because it misses the chorus effect. It's a deadly circle of engineers where they don't belong in the music!
Until I started to watch you analyst music I never knew anything about it.
You are interesting and informative. I didn't know about auto tune or pitch correction before . I have learned a lot from you. Thank you for taking the time to help us to understand all about the music industry, and how it works.
You are a Gem.
If the music industry is not helping performers to make it why do they still try. Don't they just end up owning more money than they make. What is the point?
The most obvious one is Fly Away by Lenny Kravitz. The harmony on that line seems distant and pulls away from your ears because it's so perfectly in tune. Ugh!
I only adjust the notes that sounds out to me. don't mix with your eyeballs! Long live variaudio! fxxk autotune.
I know right. Please bring back natural resonance and dissonance 🙏 it’s like you can hear that mechanical “beating” effect from a sine wave in its fixed rigidly tuned harmonics, where the natural “beating” of resonance in flux has been eradicated…
As a classically-trained singer, I despise auto-tune/pitch correction. I hate to sound like an old lady, but whatever happened to artistry?
Thank you, Fil, for doing these videos. You give me hope for the future of music.
As a former music teacher [band, but I sing also] I couldn't agree more. The country and the world are becoming extremely musically ignorant in every way. Check out Tuba Skinny on youtube though, the cream of the crop of New Orleans Bands doing the trad jazz, very musical and fun. the cornet players grandfather played in Woody Herman's Band on woodwinds.
And what happened to technique and putting in the years of work training your voice? We've come so far in athletics with understanding body mechanics and training bodies to perform better and keep raising the level of achievement, but in singing we've regressed and performance ability now is going downhill.
Similar to writing with spell check. I LOATHE it, like a true engineer loathes the kid who believes everything his calculator says. No one actually proofs their writing. So now, every word is spelled correctly, and when you read it with a discerning eye, you no longer find misspelled words- now, you find the WRONG words, but spelled correctly! It’s all an excuse for laziness.
You don't sound like an "old lady"; you sound like an artist who cares.
Why does the voice of Gotye sound so robotic though? Especially the woman in the first seconds sounds very strange to my ears...
"Autotune is something that just grates my ears", 110% in agreement! That's one invention that shouldn't have been.
The music industry is utterly soulless on a corporate level. It's all about making a profit with as many shortcuts as possible. It's just a product to them. You won't change this, and it's only going to get worse. Thankfully there are smaller artists and independant labels that really are in it for the art. Support them.
I don't agree that it shouldn't exist...it would be amazing as a tool for clearing distorted communications like terrible phone lines and stuff...but using it for music is no better than airbrushing models on magazine covers.
Can we all say it together…?
Autotune can take the soul right out of a record.
We need more soul, not less.
Autotuned anything just sounds HORRIBLE.
What's a record? 🤪
@@binoched9302 a very common term for recording.
It takes the humanity out of music...imagine how many kids with great voices will never sing because they're comparing themselves to a damned software programme.
Keep the anti-autotune rants coming! The technology takes the life out of music.
It depends on context. Usually uncorrected vocals are preferable, but autotune has it's place. It can be used as a tool - a great example is how Skinny Puppy have used autotune in the past as an instrument . There's more to music than virtuosity at being able to physically perform a task, I don't like the idea of banning any tool's use in the creation of art.
Auto tune always sounds like rubbish, because it is. By it’s very design, It removes the soul and self expression from vocals. Auto-Tune = Trash.
@@TheLokiBiz Agree, except all vocals are auto tuned these days, no one bothers with vocal training anymore.
@@symbiat0 All of them? Every single one of them? Not a single person bothers? Not a one?
@@palibakufun What I’m saying is it’s become very common practice, so much so that audiences can’t tell what is a real unprocessed vocal anymore, as was demonstrated in this video.
Pitch correct, (an early analog type of "auto tune" developed from Heil talk box tech) was invented just before MTV started. Amazingly we went from rockers looking like Mick Jagger and Steven Tyler, to a bunch of models and dancers who became "singers" overnight, despite not being able to carry a tune.
I agree with alot of what you said. However, nobody ever accused Mick Jagger of being able to carry a tune! Objectively awful vocalist, but sang with bravado and was definitely distinctive with his delivery, and sang on numerous great songs!
@@RB-oc7ti And I don;t think auto tune would have helped Bob Dylan hahhahaha. If it did it would have spoiled the whole thing about Dylan.
@@RB-oc7tiSo true, but while Mick wasn’t best vocalist, his voice ( and moves!) fit perfectly with Rolling Stones music. Just like Ringo’s voice fit perfectly with the songs he sang with the Beatles.
Can you imagine Janis Joplin being auto tuned? Would ruin her songs for sure.
@@thomastimlin1724oh man Dylan’s voice is so odd. I always thought Roy Orbison was kind of odd sounding, and know Fil featured him in one of his videos. Dylan would be an interesting feature too.
I saw GOTYE live and it was an incredible performance. He could play almost every instrument on that stage. The guy knew what he was doing.
You need to make a cross-over episode with Rick Beato and discussing this topic and perhaps also go through some songs. Would be epic.
Oh, great idea! I'd watch that.
Absolutely. Count me in. 🙂
When Audrey Hepburn sang “Moon River” in the movie Breakfast at Tiffany’s it was easy to tell her voice was untrained….she wasn’t a “singer”. But it still sounded beautiful and innocent. The nuiance would have been totally lost if autotune had been used! This video made me think of that (as just one example).
Just learnt that song for guitar. And though I never will sound as lovely as her, I appreciate it as one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. (PS: I also listen to Punk and Deathmetal, so my spectrum is somewhere over the rainbow😉). Your're totally right in what you say.
Surely Hank didn't care HOW she sang it, as long as it sounded so natural.
Some recording engineers used to say that both Dionne, and Patsy , sang their short up beat notes a bit flat, and always had to be manipulated in the final recordings..u hear that ? ("I Fall to Pieces"....for example?) long intro note?
We'll then, "live' meaning "studio live" right ? Live on stage, Live int he studio, then "live manipulated ?" THREE choices ? Funny how performing naked and screaming in a microphone can even be "termed" to be a "live concern" anymore.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebodyat the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
Great Point. It was more authentic and sweet for Holly Golightly to not sing like some professional.
nuance kk
I spent an awful time watching Moulin rouge because of massive auto-tune on every voice. Like twenty years ago. And nobody understands what I'm going through. Happy to know that I am not alone in this.
art isn't supposed to be perfect, it's an expression of feeling. let's be honest though, big producers aren;t concerned about art, as long as it brings in money, that's all that matters
Art is meant to be perfect.
ART is meant to be personal to the artist. They are human and the little deviations are what gives art personality. Artists leave viewers or listeners to interpret what they feel when hearing or seeing their work.
When someone does a cover of a song, they put their own personality over the original. People should be able to hear the music in reality.
When you see a painting, you see what the artist created. If you take that painting and pixilate it, it loses that human element in the art.
You're right--it's become about bringing in the big bucks and not about art.
Auto tune is akin to removing the brush strokes from a painting.
@@leslieortenzi8875 Totaly agree.
I read an interview in a music magazine about the recording of „Somebody That I Used To Know“, where they talked about the use of pitch correction in that production. They said that they had done a little editing but in the end they decided to leave a lot of that little inaccuracies of pitch as they were recorded because it just sounded better than the edited version. So in the end the vocals were a lot less „perfect“ than a major production would normally feature today. And it still was a huge hit worldwide.
As an amateur singer i do particularly like singing "around" the notes, and i wholeheartedly agree - there is a whole lot of room for expression within that "innacurracy."
I'd rather listen to someone sing severely off-key than a computer that sounds kinda like someone...
We found the Biz Markey fan
I am confident that you would beg me to stop.
@@continental_drift 🤣well, there are exceptions & then again if your singing your dear out with true emotions, those who know would love you for it. No 2nd request perhaps! lol
I really can't sing in tune. If I sing along to a song, I call it murdering the song.
But I prefer it if the singers do not use auto tune.
You would like Florence Foster Jenkins, the soprano. Try her version of Der Holle Rache.
It's true, far too many younger people are too accepting of junk "music" and do not appreciate what real music is.
@gsr4535 "far too many younger people are too accepting of junk "music"" We're entering the age of fake music, fake meat, fake videos, fake chat and fake literature, on top of the fake news and fake photos we've been seeing for quite awhile. The Futurological Congress is coming true right now.
They're too busy on their "instant gratification" cyber social websites to care. Personally view those addicted to that strange world in the music sphere, as modern day cyborgs. Yikes?
@@musicalSFCat I agree with everything you said. 👍
It's what the youth have been given. People who listen to older stuff can know the difference, those who DON'T listen to older stuff will not know (or will forget) the difference.
Sort of victim-blaming really. A lot of casual music listeners just don't know what else is out there and the older generations need to bare the responsibility of passing on the amazing music of the past.
I've been to 3 of Weird Al's Original Songs Only concerts these last few years. He has an amazing voice, can sing any genre and his range is incredible. But what I loved the most, was his personality coming through with all of his quirks.
Thank god we still have an artist who sings his original songs, live, harmonizing with his band of 40 years. All great singers, with their personal touches letting you know you're listening to fellow humans, simging their hearts out.
Best advice I ever had when I started singing - 'Don't concentrate on hitting the note, you can sing, you'll hit the note ok, concentrate on putting emotion into the melody'.
It does help if you can sing 🙂
It's funny, Fil. When you first started analyzing singers' pitch & talking about autotune, I was a bit put off. I'm a professional classical singer and I thought the obsession with pitch was wrong-headed. I was wrong; you were right. You saw where this was leading and it has really gotten bad. I am also a songwriter and I had demos made of my own songs. The audio engineer couldn't stop himself from auto-frickin-tuning EVERY f*ng note. This was a while ago and I wasn't confident enough to tell him to knock it off. It's a few years later and now I basically have to redo the demos. I can't stand AutoTune. It destroys the voice.
Are people really so intolerant of the slightest pitch deviation, or is this the mania of the audio engineers & producers? Because they have the software and they CAN?? It's depressing.
It's like George Lucas couldn't stop himself from "updating" the special effects for his older Star Wars movies every time there was a re-release with the latest CGI.
How frustrating!!! I have disagreements on the same thing! Ok, so if a note if pitchy I will simply redo that part till I get it right. I don't need a machine
For the people in the studio, it's because it's so readily available I think. The actual motivation for it though is for churning out content. Just eliminate the natural variance between vocalists, and they all sound like the same packaged product. They can't just go grab a new Anne Wilson, Freddie Mercury, or Annie Lennox off the nearest street corner, so they have this idiotic workaround of 'fixing' everyone.
@@lesliegaudreau5310 Which is how it should be. But even when it isn't technically 'wrong' they're still autotuning the life out of everything.
You need a video of your own here; do you employ a good engineer ?
Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebody
at the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
Dear god. I had stopped watching your videos for no particular reason. And then, I watched this video. It made me realize that I was being such a horse's ass for not watching you. You teach us all about music in a way that can't be duplicated by anyone else.
Every university music professor should be watching your videos to understand what they really need to be teaching their students.
Him and Rick Beato
Music professor: Good news, students. Thanks to technology everyone of us can now sing like a bird! HOORAY!!! BOO! Who booed???
@astorbeiljer9424 " had stopped watching your videos..." This is actually a very exciting period where all kinds of corruption is being revealed.
@@thomastimlin1724Absolutely!!!
DUH. Every "self-acclaimed " singer should be required to be proficient on an "instrument." too. Simon Cowell doesn't like my comments very much; ha. Comparing apples to oranges as he does.
The "mind" of an orchestrator still baffles me! To be "hearing and envisioning" all of the whole score, and then even have to jot down the physical (audible) representations, must have driven a few bonkers ? (Ah, Beethovan?).I think they might like "considering" it to be a correction to give some engineers extra time $$$ "enhancing." too. ("Oh, we have to fix that track?!" yea sure.)
Some recording engineers used to say that both Dionne, and Patsy , sang their short up beat notes a bit flat, and always had to be manipulated in the final recordings..u hear that ? ("I Fall to Pieces"....for example?) long intro note?
We'll then, "live' meaning "studio live" right ? Live on stage, Live int he studio, then "live manipulated ?" THREE choices ? Funny how performing naked and screaming in a microphone can even be "termed" to be a "live concern" anymore.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebody at the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
"The inaccuracy of the vocal allows that expression to happen." Gold. I used to believe that you need to learn perfect pitch/technique in order to express yourself the way you want to. Thank you for changing my whole view on this. Now, I feel like I'm actually capable of reaching my vocal goals in a reasonable timeframe.
I think a lot of the time people mistake vocals that have been layered or multi-tracked (such as Gotye there) for autotune, because of how the various takes layered on top of one another may "average out" any slight sharps or flats
Well that has been done since the Beatles...
"the inaccuracy of the vocal allows that expression to happen."
Brilliant! I couldn't agree more.
Lofucking L
The old "I got it wrong on purpose" excuse.
It really can't be wrong, if it sounds better, can it? Have you even seen the video? What are you talking about? @@johnd5398
The best art comes from ''happy accidents'. @@johnd5398
@@johnd5398 Spoken like someone who's never hit a note in their life, let alone performed a song that actually means something to them and conveys a message.
@@johnd5398serious? no its called CHARACTER.
Is not JUST the singing, the entire popular music industry today is COMPLETELY dependent on looping the best take over and over, it LOSES CHARACTER.
I noticed it years ago listening to a Beetles song...
that the imperfection was what made it sound good... it was the moment I realized why modern music is SO BAD, they loop it over and over, there's rarely any variation between verses and chorus's now...
On top of the song writing today being ALREADY repetitive.
its FLAT and does not connect to the human soul.
and YES, pretty sure there was a mistake in that Beetles song.. but When I tried "fix" that note on my guitar it sounded bad... It occurred to me why they left it in there.
As a singer who has had skin in the game for a long time----still without commercial success I might add, I am appalled at the fact that everyone----imagine, The Eagles, Eric Clapton, tons of stars----using autotune to sound perfect, let alone Meryl Streep getting note perfection via a computer. I don't know if I speak for other singers, but what makes singing something I absolutely love to do is to try to get through a song the very best way I can, hitting the notes the best I can hit them, using every technique I have ever learned to make the song come alive with a vocal that expresses the words as good as possible. What I have just said in a nutshell is that singing is a human activity; there is no place for an autotuning device in my singing career, because I want to sound like the person I am, a human being whom is far, far from perfect, but willing to try my best to make a song sound as good as I can.
It sounds like what has happened in other industries is going to happen to singing. For example we don't need the woodworker anymore because now it will be done in a factory. You won't have a casket being made by a wood maker with tears in his eyes. You will get caskets that all look exactly the same made by a machine.
Kids won't grow up like you did trying to perfect their voice. They will just learn to use computers and fix any imperfection.
Their ears won't be able to hear auto-tune because that's what they grew up with. I can hear it because I didn't grow up with it
There have been plenty of singers with... unique... voices whose music just worked; Janis, Bonnie Tyler, Dylan, Steven Tyler, Cocker, Pink Floyd, Zepplin, and the list goes on. But what all of them had was talent. They knew how to use the voice they were given. Today's music doesn't take talent; it takes being a model in skimpy clothes. And it's not new, it started decades ago, with lip singing tracks when it was supposed to be a live performance. Now it's lip singing to autotuned tracks.
@@mgass1354 if you are referring to lip syncing* being done on television, it was because of the technology at the time. I remember hearing that Kiss would not appear on television because TV's did not have stereo speakers at the time
@@brendalg4
You had people like Alan Jackson that, during a 'live' performance at the Grand Ole Opry, his drummer was beating the air... and... music! But, in that case, Jackson was pissed off that it was to a track to begin with and wanted to let everyone know it. Then, go back to the Monkees, when they played to a track, as well, before it got exposed and they actually learned how to play. Milli Vanilli was another band that got caught.
And if it was just technology, or lack thereof, what is the difference between playing a track that comes through mono tv's and singing live that comes through mono speakers?
@@mgass1354 I don't know what I am supposed to respond to.
I know that Kiss didn't go on because of the poor quality sound of TVs at the time. I don't know if they were asked to lip sync. I would assume it wouldn't make any difference. If you sing live or lip-sync, you'll still sound terrible either way.
I miss the days when there was no auto tune. I was able to tell the singers apart. FIL is nice even when he is mad 😀
Thanks for explaining this in detail! It's sad because now people might start to (unintentionally) judge natural singing voices as "bad singing" because it doesn't sound the same as the autotune. If you're used to that autotune sound and you think it's what "good" singing is, then it will really mess up your perception. I love natural sounding voices and you make a good point about the vibrato and how it's not supposed to be "on the line". There are a lot of voices that I love and I don't mind if they're not pitch perfect or hitting every note "perfectly" anyway. If I enjoy the sound of the voice then I enjoy the songs.
"Hollyweird" must be teaching that " Talent" is how screwy one can scream into a microphone, while loosening clothing and setting fire to the stage?
Phil-Would really like for you to check out Diana Ross's recordings. Jackie Mills (Larabee Sound) and the engineers at the Selma in LA told me that Diana sang FLAT by about a quarter tone to almost a half step, each note, and that ALL of her recordings had to be adjusted! Did they have a form of "auto tune" backin the 70's, by a different "electronic recording NAME" or do you think these were just engineers LYING to me? In order to inspect it you'd have to gain access to the original recordings, wouldn't you---to see if they had ever been adjusted ?? Thanks.
"Don't Let me be Lonely Tonight' original-FredGold&LyndaFaye(solo and the duo)
Copyrighted before James Taylor's !
"I Fall to Pieces With a Touch of Class" RAW VOICE RECORDINGS FOR DIANA !
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo/utube/Bandcamp
It's already happening !!! When The Barbie movie..."I'm Just Ken" is nominated for an Oscar !!!!
Thank you, thank you! Sadly, autotune is creating false stars, & degrading real ones. Truly, people don't know what they're hearing anymore. Very informative analysis.
I think you are over-doing it. Sounds like paranoia.
@@istankimjong-unbutcantstan3398 he's not
@@istankimjong-unbutcantstan3398 Just sad cynicism about how deceptive our technology is becoming, friend.
Wait till AI becomes mainstream. Auto tune needs to consigned to room 101. Nearly every chart song has some element of auto tune. Can we get back to real singers.
A recording is enhanced, the live performance is the true sound of the singer I see no problem with a studio recording, the real art is the live sound if its any good
Kimbra is a phenomenal vocalist. In fact, her voice is so good that it would be obscene to mess with it in any way.
I love hearing a raw voice, hearing the emotions and variation of tone is what makes a song truly great to me. It kind of hurts physically to listen to the autotune sometimes.
The extent of the problem was made obvious during Eurovision this year, where at least three of the entries, NE, UK, DK, that sounded lovely on the studio version fell 100% flat live - according to the rules of the competition, no Autotune is allowed. Artists simply could not sing their entries without it.
Did someone force you to watch it? Tell me who. I'll come round and sort them out for you.
In the run up to the contest, there was panic in the Dutch camp because the singers realised the song was just too hard for them. In the end they performed a simplified version (and probably still failed miserably, but I did not see it).
THEY CANNOT REPLACE THE BEAUTY OF THE HUMAN VOICE
No, they just seem to take the emotion out of it!
Yet
But that won't stop 'em trying! When AGI (Artificial General Intelligence) gets here, it'll be over for human made music.
But they can spoil it, without even revealing what they're doing.
But they're doing it, anyway..,
Emmylou Harris tells a story about the time she did background vocals for a Bob Dylan album. She was unhappy with her performance, and told one of the other artists (all professionals, mind you), that she hoped for a better result on the next take.
She was told what was taped was exactly what Bob wanted, there would be no re-do.
Imagine if they were using auto-tune in the day - how would Dylan have caught the human element that he wanted??
Thanks for sharing, Fil; I always look forward to your videos 😊
I feel like it always has to do with the record label. They create the perceived notion that everything needs to sound 'perfect' - which basically makes everything sound automated. It's not that new, just unfortunately it's become more obvious as technology has advanced. They don't even let bands record their own instruments sometimes and will hire session musicians when it's not played precisely enough.
It used to drive my mom nuts when I would tell her who was going to get selected on American Idol for listening to them song for one second. The backing track and vocal effects make it super-obvious.
I have a few old Yardbirds, Jeff Beck and very early Stones albums on CD, and I love the real 'human' sounds (slight mistakes, things a bit out of tune or out of time, sometimes tempo speeding up, etc.) and I LOVE it!
It's real! It's human! It breathes! It's not plastic, mechanical, cold and sterile! In fact (having played in some African bands), I heard a lot of music from The Congo, Zaire, etc. (like 'soukous' and 'highlife'), and believe it or not, part of the charm of that music are things like guitars or bass being slightly out of tune, creating a new, but somehow 'pleasing' sound which sounds almost 'intentionally' slightly out of tune! Great playing, but humanly imperfect- in a good way!
One of my favorite tracks ever is "Would?" by Alice in Chains. Because you hear the imperfections. The tempo unintentionally shifts several times in that song, the bass rhythm feels like a dude messing around but in time with the drums, and there's some human error and chaos there that only enhances the song.
AutoTune and beat correction have really taken the life out of a lot of music
There’s another video of Gotye sitting on a stool with a couple of mates doing this song live, and I was interested how he’d go in a pretty casual setting. He absolutely nailed it. He doesn’t use auto tune because he doesn’t need it. Bloke can sing.
Proper artist🤣
saw him play 20 years ago in his band The Basics, drumming and singing. Brilliant musician.
Still a one hit wonder though!
@officialWWM One more hit than most people on the planet. I'd never complain about getting a royalty cheque from a global hit.
@@officialWWM A one hit wonder with 2.1 BILLION views on CZcams alone? I’d take that any day.
That little "partially flat" part is what gives good music its character. That's why most of today's stuff just doesn't any "life" to it...those little "less than perfect" moments are actually what makes good music better.
Back in the '80s, Canadian music stars recorded a song to raise money for those suffering through the Ethiopian famine, just after the Americans did "We Are The World". There was a documentary released about the making of the record. When Neil Young was being recorded, David Foster, the producer, stopped him at one point and said, "You're going flat." Neil's response; "That's my sound, man."
Some recording engineers used to say that both Dionne, and Patsy , sang their short up beat notes a bit flat, and always had to be manipulated in the final recordings..u hear that ? ("I Fall to Pieces"....for example?) long intro note?
We'll then, "live' meaning "studio live" right ? Live on stage, Live int he studio, then "live manipulated ?" THREE choices ? Funny how performing naked and screaming in a microphone can even be "termed" to be a "live concern" anymore.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebodyat the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
I think we find comfort and relatability knowing it's a bunch of real humans doing their best.
Any appreciation for Gotye singing “you didn’t have to cut me off” while getting cut off multiple times to discuss the subject of the video? 😂
Excellent work. I appreciate anyone trying to educate the public on real voices vs computer mangled ones.
I feel so heard. This pitch correction on EVERYTHING trend is hugely limiting the music I can listen to. Very often I find wonderful, talented musicians who ruin their art with autotune and I just can't stand it if ït's over a certain limit
Also the amount of compression currently being used on vocal tracks is outrageous 😱
I was a bit taken aback when I saw the Gotye track being accused of being Autotuned, we have all heard this song so many times and the voices are raw and emotive. It's the exact opposite of the Autotuned, emotionally void blandness that we are force fed these days.
Indeed. He did use autotune on "State of the Art," but it wasn't to try to trick people about his vocal abilities but to tell a story about losing humanity through technology and being more clever than just bashing technology by showing the wonder involved, too. Wally DeBacker might just be the greatest musical genius of the 21st century.
It could still sound organic and have some sort of auto-tune though. As it's an effect, you can raise the intensity from very light to basically sounding like a weird vocoder. I honestly think that if you can't tell it's there then it shouldn't be an issue, if it's the sound you're going for. I personally don't use any auto-tune, not because I'm good but because it suits the way I record my vocals. Bit of a side point but Frank Ocean also uses it as an effect, which he then removes in other parts of the song to show off his natural voice (there's probably still some auto tune but try releasing a major label record without being forced to use it).
@@wvu05 "but to tell a story about losing humanity through technology" This is where autotune is part of the art, rather than the destruction of it.
literally 99% of songs made in the past decade have some level of pitch correction done to them. Sorry to burst your bubble, that's just how it works.
@@Psalm1267 Agreed. That's why I was pointing out that when someone uses something to create something new that has something to say, that is far different from just trying to hide one's inability.
And I thought it was just because I'm old and grew up in the 60s that much of today's music seems lifelessly perfect. Listen to the 2006 Denmark performance of "Whiter Shade of Pale" and tell me I'm wrong. Gary's voice acquired the grit and regret of a man who had lived another 40 years since the original release. It does what all art is meant to do, evoke an emotional reaction. It's a no go zone for computers. 14:21
I'm 54. I was taught in 89 in college at my music class that music would become so boring and simple. Now music from 2000 to now sounds the same.
you are wrong.
@@derda1304 That's completely possible 😆
The Gotye song is amazing and this just makes it better
In the 70’s there was a commercial for Memorex cassette tapes featuring Ella Fitzgerald and the music tag line was, “Is it live or is it Memorex?”. Nowadays you can ask, “Is it live or is it Autotune?”.
Nice
Ironically, if they auto tune that recording of Ella Fitzgerald and then try to break the glass - it wouldn't because it the very oscillation of her voice that shattered the glass, not just the note.
Or lip sync.
Is it real or is it Memorex was the line.
that was because it was about the good audio quality not voice manipulation
So glad to hear that Somebody That You Used to Know is not Auto Tuned. Kimbra is one of my favorite singers EVER!
It's so great I would allow it.
@@Wurldz that's a good point but what about the soul. Autotuned music, even ever so slightly, lstill does sound less soulful than when without it. Especially if we're talking not about major dance hits but such performances like Meryl Streep's one where the whole point is that she is NOT a singer and has to have a lot of soul and natural qualities in her voice.
But let's say it's OK for the new music to use that - what about the re-releases of the old music that's been autotuned? That's really unacceptable because not only it takes the soul out, but also it kind of prevents the audience from being able to clearly study the development of music throughout time. I mean, what if someone decided to issue a new edition of Shakespeare and changed a few words here or there just to make it a little better. That would have been a scandal. Why this is allowed with music, idk.
I guess I'll have to buy some actual tapes and a cassette player just to preserve the original sound)
Sorry, it's been auto-tuned. This video got it wrong. The video he claimed was wrong was actually right.
From way back in music recording history, hearing Alessandro Moreschi, the last castrato singer and the only one who's voice was recorded. It does not take long to hear the 'problems' he had reaching certain notes. He was not accounted as a great singer at the time. And yet and yet, it is strangely beautiful, simply because of that. Beautiful both in its sadness and it's humanity. Any electronic voice 'correction' would only ruin his legacy.
Considering the trans craze, I don't think he was the last castrato singer!
Love the way you hate autotune. I totally agree. Already these short effects on the onsets where you can actually hear the computer starting to shift the audio make me mad.
It's like an infection, a virus. The human being is no longer "good enough" and non-musicians now think if someone is singing naturally (and they don't know it, because everything is corrected), they're singing badly. So sad! Thanks for this.
Phil-Would really like for you to check out Diana Ross's recordings. Jackie Mills (Larabee Sound) and the engineers at the Selma in LA told me that Diana sang FLAT by about a quarter tone to almost a half step, each note, and that ALL of her recordings had to be adjusted! Did they have a form of "auto tune" backin the 70's, by a different "electronic recording NAME" or do you think these were just engineers LYING to me? In order to inspect it you'd have to gain access to the original recordings, wouldn't you---to see if they had ever been adjusted ?? Thanks.
"Don't Let me be Lonely Tonight' original
copyrighted before James Taylor's !
@lyndafayesmusic The only way to do it back then, would have been to chop it up, and speed it up to match the pitch. I'm guessing that wasn't done a lot
Strangely enough, the new generation that has grown up hearing all the music with auto tune, they naturally will sing imitating the sounds that auto tune gives you in songs, so the newest generation will naturally sound like processed vocals.
@@Hardts In the 1960s there was a device called an Eltro Information Rate Changer, an analog reel-to-reel tape machine that could raise or lower the pitch of an audio track without affecting the speed (within limits).
My late husband was a wonderful musician and singer. He despised Autotune and all the digitalized everything. It has taken the magic, wonder, truth and expression out of performance.
@@trteeerryfse-wy2ww As will you be one day and when you wake up one day and say to yourself "where did the years go?", I hope the younger people around you are more compassionate than this comment. I'm sorry, I don't know you but that was just a mean comment.
AGREED 1000%
And what about when autotune is used to create a texture that can not be replicated with the human voice alone? How is that not expressive? How is that not worthy of being considered magical? If used to cover up tiny flaws in an otherwise great vocal performance sure that's not a great use for it, but in allowing new textures for music and enabling those who can't sing well to record their own music, autotune has democratized music production. Surely anybody can see the value in allowing more voices to be heard and new unimaginable sounds to take life.
Definitely has
I'm sorry for your loss, and I can agree that the truth of the performance is lost, but I cannot agree about magic, wonder, and expression. A good artist, auto tuned or not, will know how to convey their emotion through the music. The auto tune has nothing to do with that. I don't care for music being so "perfect" with pitch correction, but at the same time, they are studio recordings. They're meant to be the cleanest, most precise version of the song. If you want emotion, listen to more live performances, or unplugged. There are people in these comments that are up in arms and like, it really is NOT that serious. Good artists make good music, bad ones make bad music. The auto tune doesn't really have anything to do with that innate ability that some have and others don't. The Gotye song is a great example. I think that song will delivers so much emotion, even with heavy auto tuning. That's because it's a great track, with a great message and delivery. It could be raw with no correction and still be a great track.
Kimbra can SING, it's a damned crime to alter her voice. She is soooo good.
Thank you for saying the truth. People are forgetting what is/was real performance.
I feel as though the arts are under attack. Just as Disney turns the richness of real life into a cartoon, the music industry is transmuting real music into a caricature of itself, and jeopardizes the survival of a vital aspect of humanity. Thank you for taking on this mission, and speaking out against this, Fil!
everything human is under attack now
Hmmm, not sure any sort of music is 'vital' to humanity, let alone 'real music', whatever that is. ;)
I'm sympathetic to your sentiment though.
Funding for the arts has declined for years now, cutting out art and music classes from schools.
🗣 @@CurtOntheRadio That would be a good topic for debate... "Is music vital to humankind?"
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
I listened to a recent "live" performance by the Offspring and the Autotune is so heavy handed no one could mistake it for the singers' natural voices. If I may quote the J. Geils Band, "My blood runs cold, my memory has just been sold."
My angel is the centerfold!
@@dathorndike4908 😆
@@dathorndike4908my Angel has been autotuned.
I agree that auto tune for singers is silly but I’ve recently been making a lot of music and as a song writer with minimal but not terrible singing skills auto tune has been so amazing to just get my thoughts and emotions out into the world In a way that is nicer to the ear then my natural signing voice I think there’s a time and a place for people to use auto tune sometimes the words are more important then the singing
As has been said many times, 'before there was Autotune, there was TALENT'...
Fact.
If all you do is listen to robots, you will turn into one.
I used to think the only issue is that people believe certain performances are natural and not auto tuned. I now see that it’s an even bigger issue that people believe certain “real” performances are auto tuned! Thanks Fil !
At the end of the day, it makes me admire artists like the Beatles that much more. When recording the White Album, Lennon wrote a song called "Yer Blues" and wanted it to sound raw and visceral. He got the boys literally in a storage room (closet) and played live to the mics. No autotunes, overdubbing, nothing, just them and it sounds amazing.
Yer Blues is a fantastic blues song.
and I love John Lennon’s voice. It’s the little raspy thing going on that makes me like it do much.
cool story grampa.. tell us how you walked7 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways!
@@johnd5398 haha! That's original. There is some real talent like Mateus Asato, Nuno Bettencourt, and Adele, respectively. Let's face it: most music today is trash, and Rick politely expresses that sentiment. We'll never see another band like the Beatles again. They produced 12 studio albums and 213 songs in less than a decade. You're lucky if you can get one album in five years today. Interests and the industry are too fragmented and homogenized (ProTools) to allow creativity to progress.
And for most of their career they recorded on a 4-track, then 8. Freakin' awesome!!
This is one of the most aggressive autotunes I've heard that wasn't intended to sound like a robot too
So glad you pointed out there was no autotuning on both of Gotye's & Kimbra's vocals. That live video was a radio station performance of the already recorded song.
They used auto-tune.
I was confounded when I saw that Goyte/Kimbra "autotune" clip... I'm glad to see I wasn't wrong and that my ears are still working despite their age. I can usually pick Autotune vocals by the way my blood pressure increases and an incredible sense of violent anger clouds my rational mind.
Same!
The "mind" of an orchestrator still baffles me! To be "hearing and envisioning" all of the whole score, and then even have to jot down the physical (audible) representations, must have driven a few bonkers ? (Ah, Beethovan?).I think they might like "considering" it to be a correction to give some engineers extra time $$$ "enhansing." too. ("Oh, we have to fix that track?!" yea sure.)
Some recording engineers used to say that both Dionne, and Patsy , sang their short up beat notes a bit flat, and always had to be manipulated in the final recordings..u hear that ? ("I Fall to Pieces"....for example?) long intro note?
We'll then, "live' meaning "studio live" right ? Live on stage, Live int he studio, then "live manipulated ?" THREE choices ? Funny how performing naked and screaming in a microphone can even be "termed" to be a "live concern" anymore.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebodyat the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
If you actually get angry when you hear a song with Autotune you should probably get some therapy dog, that’s not normal.
Righteous anger bro', the anger of revolution and justice....@@namjoonssexybrain1679
Well, the studio version was actually auto-tuned, so I don't know where that leaves you and your violent anger. Maybe try channeling it into a fun sport.
Can we trust ANY music releases these days? The beautiful simplicity of the 50's and 60's is not only in the past, but is being erased.
"Can we trust ANY music releases these days?" Absolutely! You can trust that it's all shite.
Actually. the music is just as simple today. The only thing complicated in todays music is the tech trying to make it sound good. That being said, recording is actually a lot easier than it used ot be once you understand the programs. They do a thousand times more than the old recorders. I think recording analog and then mixing digital are the best recordings. Analog adds warmth and computer processing adds edge.
@@jackempson3044 Exactly, we've come back to the early 60s in Pop music terms: super short songs, with very basic chord sequences. The thing that's different is that early 60s recordings sounded more like live music than all the music that came after the multitrack studio became popular.
Even in the 1950s and 1960s, they tried like hell to enhance what was natural, but it was harder. They covered up Annette Funacello's mediocre voice with echo, and sped up David Cassidy's voice to make him sound younger. They also tried to compress records to make them sound louder in a radio rotation, and as they got better and better at this, records sounded worse and worse, with a lot of early-2000s re-masters sounding much worse than the original vinyl. That "loudness war" is yet another can of worms; some radio stations have recently introduced gain averaging algorithms to discourage such compression.
Ok, boomer.
My wife and me are independent musicians who produce and release our own music. She sings and has a great voice and almost always accurate enough. But I think there is one specific situation where pitch correction (auto-tune is just stupid...) has real value: To save a really bad spot in an otherwise amazing vocal take. It happens. Everything is just superb and has the right energy, the correct rhythm but then there is this one spot where it just doesn't sound right. And I think it's better to correct that spot instead of re-recording.
No
@@VonRibbitt Yes
AutoTune and other forms of pitch correction allow you to set a threshold for tuning or to only correct by a certain percentage. In other words, you can tell it to allow a little bit of drift or take a little longer to grab the note so there's more nuance.
I fear a future in which all music is created & performed by Artificial Intelligence - and people grow up accepting it.
That just seems obvious at this point.
That's right and acting will go the same way ?
They won't know any better.
@RSVPini "I fear a future in which all music is created & performed by Artificial Intelligence" The AI version of Art Bell also expressed that concern - that AI would get its content from AI which gets it from more AI and so on.
Glad I won't likely be around then or too old to care.
There are a lot of us who are singing & recording as unedited (as possible) to keep the sound of real voices in the art. But we are very much on our own now & no one understands what they're hearing anymore - they're like "but why isn't it perfect?" Singing is the pursuit of perfection but reveling in the imperfections.
Cleverly stated!
"Hollyweird" must be teaching that " Talent" is how screwy one can scream into a microphone, while loosening clothing and setting fire to the stage?
Phil-Would really like for you to check out Diana Ross's recordings. Jackie Mills (Larabee Sound) and the engineers at the Selma in LA told me that Diana sang FLAT by about a quarter tone to almost a half step, each note, and that ALL of her recordings had to be adjusted! Did they have a form of "auto tune" backin the 70's, by a different "electronic recording NAME" or do you think these were just engineers LYING to me? In order to inspect it you'd have to gain access to the original recordings, wouldn't you---to see if they had ever been adjusted ?? Thanks.
"Don't Let me be Lonely Tonight' original-FredGold&LyndaFaye(solo and the duo)
Copyrighted before James Taylor's !
"I Fall to Pieces With a Touch of Class" RAW VOICE RECORDINGS FOR DIANA !
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo/utube/Bandcamp
@@lyndafayesmusic Ironically, the screamers are some of the only vocalists who don't use pitch correction.
Perfection equals fiction, yet we love to chase it.
So downright adorable. Well intentioned, unassuming and earnest, as always! Thank you for the value you bring to our understanding of music ❤
What a lovely channel. Just discovered you and knew right away I could learn here. A few videos in, I sure have. Thank you!
Having seen Kimbra about 6 times live, I can attest to her excellent vocal abilities. It’s a shame that people are assuming she can’t sing and required vocal trickery on the track.
You honestly believe they can't run a voice through auto-tune at a live show?
Naive.
@@jeffwenberg4321 🙄
@@jeffwenberg4321You honestly believe a person can’t actually be singing live without auto tune? Naive.
Expression shouldn't be manipulated, by anyone. That's how I feel about music being put forth, let it stand as the singer puts it out. As is. Just my opinion! Thank you Fil!🌷
Only if they want their voice to sound like an instrument for creative sake - Peter Frampton's or Roger Troutman's use of talkbox instruments but not for the sake of making them sound artificially polished.
So no one should ever use reverb?
Honestly just putting a load of reverb on vocals will make it sound nice imo, you don't need to be pitch correcting everything. It's fine sometimes but idk, sometimes I just get sick of noticing it in so many songs. I think that's why I prefer smaller indie artists or 'outsider' music, it's so raw
"all my favorite singers couldnt sing" is a silver jews lyric that has always hit home for me, idgaf about technical ability i only listen to music for the emotion theyre trying to convey
I just want to know WHY. Do they think we’re stupid? Do they think we can’t appreciate something REAL? Do THEY not know anything about vocal artistry? Just WHY?
Follow the money, that's usually why. A friend of mine said decades ago, "If it smells it sells."
@@thomastimlin1724 but people in this country (US)don’t use their buying power to indicate their wishes. They just buy without thinking.
They are trying to see how much they can fool you…so they can control the artists….or fake art.
They do it because this new generation is buying into it- literally.
All they care about is the money. If you have somebody that has the right looks but can't sing, Auto-Tune fixes that. They don't care if you can appreciate something real, or the artistry involved... All they care about is how much it sells
It's cosmetic plastic surgery for singers.
Aurora (Singer-Songwriter from Norway) likes to have her songs without autotune, she probably has some pitch correction on some of her songs. Could you have a video about her? I would love to see that :)
First time watching your videos. Saw the thumbnail and thought “oh nah, both the vocals are awesome on that track.” Glad I clicked to see that you were actually paying it respect and that it’s even more awesome, knowing how natural it is.
Many things are fake today. As AI increases we'll have a job to even know what the truth is! Thanks for your work Fil.
If I'm not mistaken, her unaltered singing voice can be heard in Silkwood. At the very end she sings Amazing Grace a capella. It's beautiful.
Yes, and it was nice they didn't ruin the movie by making a major production of "effects" on the song too.
The "mind" of an orchestrator still baffles me! To be "hearing and envisioning" all of the whole score, and then even have to jot down the physical (audible) representations, must have driven a few bonkers ? (Ah, Beethovan?).I think they might like "considering" it to be a correction to give some engineers extra time $$$ "enhansing." too. ("Oh, we have to fix that track?!" yea sure.)
Some recording engineers used to say that both Dionne, and Patsy , sang their short up beat notes a bit flat, and always had to be manipulated in the final recordings..u hear that ? ("I Fall to Pieces"....for example?) long intro note?
We'll then, "live' meaning "studio live" right ? Live on stage, Live int he studio, then "live manipulated ?" THREE choices ? Funny how performing naked and screaming in a microphone can even be "termed" to be a "live concern" anymore.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebodyat the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
BTW this was a really cool video to learn from. I've seen people do pitch correction in programs before, but I've never heard anyone actually explain what it is to this level. As a non-artist this was very enlightening.
Love your work Fil. Been watching for years but just subscribed. Sorry, algorithm made me think I was already subscribed!!
Thanks!
A lot of people seem to confuse auto-tune with vocal comping. In a studio you can record multiple takes, and then just edit together all the best-sounding notes.
That's how most studio recordings are made too. They take the best takes and put them together into a complete song. I don't know why people are so up in arms over this. Is it used disingenuinely, sure - all the time. But it really isn't a freakin war crime like some people seem to think. If you don't like it because it's auto tuned, then be my guest and don't listen to it. It's very simple. Yet everyone these days can't help themselves by constantly trying to invoke cancel culture on everything.
@@Jayson_Tatum I don't mind if new bands are using autotune or whaterver they want, I don't listen them. I got pissed when they *destroy* old music with it.
Also I think if you use autotune all the time means you have no talent whatsoever. A computer now can paint what Michellangelo did back in the days, but that doesn't mean the guy on the computer has the talent.
@@Jayson_Tatum We're up in arms because it's ruining music. Why don't musicians just tink all their songs out on a child's toy? Because it doesn't sound good. Why don't we want to listen to autotune? Because it doesn't sound good. You very flippantly suggest we don't listen, but when everything is being autotuned, that leaves us with nothing. Not acceptable.
And BTW, it has nothing to do with cancel culture.
vocal comping is really not a crime. we must understand that with a recording any error will become more and more evident the more you listen to it. So it requires some sort of unnatural perfection, else those imperfections would start to bother us as consumers. it is a two sided sword tough for sure. Noone should be a doctored performer that can't actually deliver live.
@@Jaburu I don't really think any of these techniques are "wrong" per se, so long as you're not misleading people.
Like sure, sing with live pitch-correction, or even lip-sync if that's what your audience want, just be honest about it.
There were definitely times in the Meryl Streep song where while she was singing, it sounded like her voice was literally being changed by a slider.
I can't watch those Mamma Mia movies, they all sound awful lol
Caught it within the first 2 seconds. There's a tinny, electronic quality to some of those opening notes that smacks of autotune manipulation, and listening further on she definitely sounds a lot more like GLADOS than a human.
Grating on the ears, yes! You are making me wonder how I would sound if I were corrected and tuned?
Love this discussion. 13:04 the tone and the chest voice projection of the vocals is so good.
A little detune fattens the sound nicely
This kind of studio trickery was a pet peeve of mine all the way back to 1976.
Back then, studio production and engineering would overdub or make a musician do a certain part over and over.
When they did the song live, that's when you heard what they could really do.
So I began to search for live albums.
Then I found out that only the drums would be recorded live.
So then I began to search for bootleg albums.
You could find a lot of RUSH, Led Zeppelin, KISS, Pink Floyd, etc.
But they were all main mixing board recordings.
It was a very dry sound with no reverb from the hall or venue.
Fil, it's REALLY HARD to find music that hasn't been synthesized.
Once again, I agree with your opinion.
The more our ears get used to fake music, the more we will lose touch with the real natural human element in all of this.
This is why I still appreciate people like Robert Plant, Geddy Lee, or Brian Johnson.
They can't really sing anymore.
But it's THEM.
And that's what I paid to see and hear.
I don't care if their voices are all but destroyed.
Give me the real thing.
Came here to say similar. I loathe autotune but the idea that people knew what a voice sounded like from studio albums long ago is obviously wrong. I was obsessed with this when I was young- how did those greats in my favorite bands sing like that? When I got GarageBand I learned- from doubling, microphone distortion, compression, fuzz etc...
@hovertank307
The only studio albums I have purchased in the last 20 years have been Beatles albums.
I waited until I heard Paul McCartney had obtained most of his publishing rights back from the Jackson family.
Beatles music is HEAVILY dubbed and engineered.
So is Led Zeppelin.
So it's technically fake.
But... I have heard both in concert, and it can be done live with variations in key for the singer.
I saw Paul McCartney at the Tacoma dome in 2002.
He did 34 Beatles songs.
He spot on.
His band is amazing.
I saw Page/Plant in the same venue in 1995.
Plant dropped all of his vocals down an octave and still sounded great.
KISS recreates their sound better in concert.
So does RUSH.
RUSH is absolutely perfect in concert.
Of course, Geddy Lee can't sing like he did back in the 1970s, but I don't care.
I'm a musician. I'm there to hear THE BAND.
Of course, RUSH retired 8 years ago, and we all know why it happened when it happened. RIP Neil
@@TheErik249 Oh yeah those bands can do that music live and it's still a valid interpretation of the song. They can probably also afford enough other musicians on stage to get to the studio thickness of sound. I sing a few Zep songs myself and take it down an octave (and do something weirder with Immigrant Song) so I am happy to learn that Plant does the same now. I love Led Zeppelin but even as a kid had a slight distaste for Plant's chirpy falsetto sound. I much prefer what he did later when he stayed more in his tessetura (or however you spell that)... Honey Drippers e.g. I now understand that heavy rock/metal mixes require a high tenor to cut through. I find this fact highly frustrating. I also think that autotune is usually unnecessary for current music. Plenty of those performers are also great singers but that robot sound is now what people expect. I just noticed you also spell "Erik" the correct way :)
@hovertank307
Agreed on all your points.
Yes, my Swedish mother knew her cultural background and demanded that my name be spelled with a K.
The original spelling
E-I-R-I-K
Search for Grateful Dead concerts.
This really shows how emotions are conveyed in the small nuances within vocal performances. It's like artificial fruit flavors instead of real fruit, and it's sad that a lack of exposure can dull the senses to the beauty of the genuine article.
Excellent points. I refer to modern popular music (in all its forms/genres) as being digitally washed, which means everything that makes a singer's one of a kind voice truly unique is processed out. I think this is a huge reason why vintage records have become so popular. You can actually connect with an unedited singer and their voice in a way that's impossible with all the digital manipulation.
it's true. seriously, you cannot tell one vocalist from another. it's awful. bleugh :/
I agree with you that old performances shouldn't be tampered with but as a producer (and artist) I see pitch correction as a tool just like any other plugin. People seem to think it works like a switch you flip which just automatically makes you sing better, it doesn't, and properly pitch correcting vocals is a skill in of itself.
I see it like an effect, and just like with any effect you can over-do it. If we're making the argument that vocals should be all natural then autotune isn't our only enemy, as insecure singers are very well known to drench their vocals in reverb to hide away in the mix and apply a stupid amount of distortion, but tbh I don't see the issue there as long as you like the way it sounds, that's all that matters.
For up and coming artists I think it's good for them to experiment and push plugins to their limits, and as a producer if I need to use 100 plugins to achieve the sound I'm looking for I'm gonna use every tool I have at my disposal, including pitch correction.
My step daughter has acute musical hearing which she must have inherited from her dad. When she hears auto tune she shuts off that music. I wear hearing aides so am glad to hear at all but even I notice that a lot of music now lacks character and timbre. I guess this is what causes that. Thanks for the analysis and information.
You can hear Meryl Streep sing without auto tune in the first episode of this seasons Only Murders in the Building. It confirms she had not need for it what so ever.
of course she doesnt... thats why its only audible specifically to have a hightened sense of whimzy in that particular show
...where NOBODY = Wings of Pegasus
I can forgive tuning Meryl Streep's performance on Only Murders, even if it was immediately noticeable when watching the show (which it was).
Her character's back story was that she was actually a tremendously talented actress and singer that Martin Short's character "discovers" as one of the stars of this new broadway. So it makes sense story-wise for her character to be a surprisingly good singer. One of the few instances where it didn't bother me because it worked in context.
For Meryl, people may remember that she sang in both Postcards From the Edge (1990) and Death Becomes Her (1992) and she does have a very nice voice
I haven't watched either of those movies. Her vocals in "Mamma Mia" didn't impress me at all (and she was WAY too old to play that character).
Hollywood is going down.....Meryl is a snot
@@renaerolley5670 yeah, that movie is garbage
@savage_skirt5386 I'd like to see it live with a talented lead.
Yes, and her vocal is great in Postcards From The Edge.
Maybe the record companies are trying to make the old music sound bad so we can't complain that music from the 60's, 70's, 80's was so much better than a lot of new music today.
Ha, GOOD ONE. I used to hate how the BANDS needing work $$$ pushed their singers through their buddies' originals ...LIsten to " I Fall to Pieces With a Touch of Class" sometime...love your opinion of how OLDIES can be done.
If we can stay with the classics, and the roots of classical music, I think we'll all be OK. There will always be a bunch of wanna be musicians trying to AUTO TUNE a quick buck-just like CLICK BAIT became lucrative too?
Intonation, btw, can be "learned."
Don't think Sarah Brightman or Judy Collins will ever allow auto tune.
DUH. Every "self-acclaimed " singer should be required to be proficient on an "instrument." too. Simon Cowell doesn't like my comments very much; ha. Comparing apples to oranges as he does.The "mind" of an orchestrator still baffles me! To be "hearing and envisioning" all of the whole score, and then even have to jot down the physical (audible) representations, must have driven a few bonkers ? (Ah, Beethoven?).I think they might like "considering" it to be a correction to give some engineers extra time $$$ "enhancing." too. ("Oh, we have to fix that track?!" yea sure.)
Some recording engineers used to say that both Dionne, and Patsy , sang their short up beat notes a bit flat, and always had to be manipulated in the final recordings..u hear that ? ("I Fall to Pieces"....for example?) long intro note?
We'll then, "live' meaning "studio live" right ? Live on stage, Live int he studio, then "live manipulated ?" THREE choices ? Funny how performing naked and screaming in a microphone can even be "termed" to be a "live concern" anymore.
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO !I'll PAY Fil if he can find the "poorly executed natural " soprano back up singer , and AUTO TUNE here out of existence in the remake of Silent Night!$$$. ("It was a Silent Night-Revisited.") Seriously---All voices overdubbed contain the voices pre-recorded on each former track, down the last track-and we can't FIND her, to isolate her! It was an attempt to change the lyrics to something more grammatically correct as well as adding ANGELS to the mix! NAME YOUR PRICE. We gave up and many listeners claimed they actually did not "hear" her! (She AND I , always are aware when we've sung off-key!)Problems such as mine would have been solved by either Jackie Mills up on Larabee, or somebody at the Selma Studios; but I've lost contact through the years with most of them.
Sincerely,
LyndaFaye
Computer Illiterate and Audacity Amateur!
LyndaFayeSmusic@Yahoo
The Illinois Harmony Connection,
FredGold&LyndaFaye
"Lynda Faye's Little Blue Mermaid" for children,
By Geofonica, and in Spanish, French and Italian.
For some FUN "Opera at its Worst!"
People thinking "recorded in a studio with multiple takes" equates to "autotuned" shows just how rapidly the collective IQ of this generation is declining.
I have a crap load of old cd's I'm so thankful for them, not trick no auto tune all natural. I'm afraid of listen to an old song on line and it's been auto tuned.