How to Sound Like Siamese Dream (The Smashing Pumpkins)
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- A more detailed look at the lead sounds is here: • The Lead Guitar Sounds...
This is how I get close to cloning Billy Corgan's Siamese Dream recorded sound for my covers.
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Black Guitar:
2019 Fender American Professional Stratocaster w/ R/S/B Lace Sensors
Tuning - E Standard
Surf Green Guitar:
2002 Fender American Series Stratocaster w/Seymour Duncan JB Trembucker and Dimarzio Chopper
Tuning - E B B G B D#
Amp:
Marshall SC20C JCM800 in a Mojotone 18 watt cabinet
marshall.com/marshall-amps/pr...
www.mojotone.com/Cabinets_x/C...
Pedals:
Big Muff OpAmp - www.ehx.com/products/op-amp-b...
Made by Mike DistII - www.madebymike.co.uk/dist2.shtml
Wampler Tumnus - www.wamplerpedals.com/product...
MXR Phase 100 - www.jimdunlop.com/mxr-phase-100/
Eventide H9 Max - www.eventideaudio.com/product...
Bass:
Squire Affinity J Bass direct
Gear for Recording:
Universal Audio OX
Yamaha UR22 Interface
Logic Pro
Amplitube Custom Shop - Hudba
it's actually terrifying how close that sound is in the beginning, best tone replication i've heard on youtube!
Thank you very much!
As another longtime pumpkin fan and collector of anything that can get me closer to that tone, I have a trick you can do with the Phase 100 to make it sound even more pumpkin like. Put the phaser thru the return/send of your marshall. It let's the phase float right on top of the fuzz. You might already be doing that but just in case you haven't tried that it's worth a shot. Gives the tone a very mellon collie feel
I'll give it a shot 👍
the live sound of pumpkins with the orange amps was insane in that era. too bad I cant find specs or info about the pedals (a few) used live or marshall jmp1 settings.
You have done a wonderful service by figuring out how to do this with modern materials. Thank you.
jesus you fucking nailed that sound. It really shows the love and dedication you've poured into examining their material. Kudos man
I discovered SP in 1996 and it instantly became one of my most loved bands, i still love them, though i dont listen as much as i used to. Great video and thanks!
You really nailed that BC style solo in the intro! As a fan and a guitarist, this was really fun!
Thank you!
Thanks for running use through this set-up. Excellent work.
Jimi Hendrix playing with My Bloody Valentine
So good man great take on sound ... love your covers best I’ve seen on CZcams
daamn, Soma sounds amazing!
Excellent work. Sounds great.
Great video bud. Thank you for your time and commitment...
Really love this channel and these vids. I've been a pumpkins fan for 20+ years and started playing guitar 3 months ago. Would love if you did more pumpkins covers or even lesson type vids.
woaaah this sounds spot on, nice job!
Thank you!
That’s amazing. Thanks for sharing that!!
Just awesome. Perfect tone 👌
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Hands down the BEST video I’ve seen for this subject AND best video I’ve seen by an account under 500 subs. If you keep up content like this I would not be surprised if you became a regular stop for gear info for myself
Thank you very much! I appreciate that! I'll be doing a deep dive on the separate lead tones from the album very soon. I've learned a few things 👍
@@EddieClark YES PLEASE 😇 subbed!
Wow, nailing it!
The sound of my teenage years! this video is perfect
Very awesome! Cheers man!
Good job. Best pumpkins guitar tone tutorial ever.
And I like how your guitar sounds just like me playing when you are not even playing.
Hehehe. I'm glad you liked it and thanks for watching!
That intro track is everything I want out of a guitar. 100 percent the sound I am chasing.
Instasub dude you killed the tone the first minute. Cheers from a fellow guitarist!
Thanks for uploading this! Was looking forward to it since your original Reddit post!
Glad to and I hope you liked it. Thanks for watching!
Eddie Clark most definitely liked it. I'm not familiar at all with pedals and amp knowledge, so watching you explain what they do was great. Would love to see one of machine ii if you ever decide to :) This one kicked ass btw :D
Good stuff. That Marshall looks great rehoused.
Amazing video dude, you've really nailed the tones which is a real achievement since you've managed to translate the sound from a studio recording sound into a pedalboard. I've just checked out the eventide pedal and safe to say I might have to wait until I think of getting one since Ive already bought two new pedals this month 🤪
you got it pretty close, and you re a really good comunicator, thanks man
Glad to! Thanks for watching 👍
A good friend of mine is (Billy) in a Siamese Dream tribute band. You've absolutely NAILED it!
I think you nailed it!
Thank you! 👍
Sounds great!!!!
Mad respect man!
Thank you 👍
Awesome. Love it. You look like me when jamming out to Pumpkins.. big ass grin and just eating it up.
Holy shit that solo sound. Perfect.
So sick
been curious about that Siamese Dream era tone for years. I knew bits and pieces of it, such as the JCM 800 head with KT88's, master cranked with the preamp controlling the gain structure, Distortion+ into an op amp Muff, and so on. I got the Lace Sensors and the op amp muff, but couldn't quite wrap my head around the rest of the equation.
I decided to build a pedalboard recently and learned about IRs. I've been using older modelers for years, as I just mess around in my room by myself, and had no idea how far the tech had come... IRs have opened a whole new world for me. knowing that it's possible to get there with gear I can actually afford (or save up for over the years) is a very happy surprise. I presumed it would be out of reach or infeasible, given all the expensive gear, rack stuff, super involved production techniques, and so on.
this has pretty much all the missing pieces of the puzzle -- or at least, all the major ones I couldn't figure out! I'll have to take a stab at modeling some of the aspects with modern software / tools in conjunction with my pedals while I save up for other bits and pieces. simply incredible.I'm really excited to keep exploring, and that's a godsend as this pandemic drags on and I keep wrestling with other things that bring me down. thank you so much for sharing this.
Great video man. I need to get that lead tone lol
That lead is insane
Very nice! You just got my sub for this
Thank you! Glad you liked it.
Not sure how anyone could dislike this video. We appreciate your work!
I'm one of the people who hit the dislike button. I don't like people who wear hats inside. It's rude and just straight up inappropriate. There are probably kids who are gonna watch this video and they are gonna see this guy wearing a tuque inside like it's the end of the world or something. It's such a terrible example to set. For shame to this man and anyone else who liked this video, including yourself, buck-o!
@@jimtroeltsch5998 youre so stuck up literally no one cares about wearing hats inside
@@jimtroeltsch5998 are you even serious?!
@@narnball lol what do you think?
Dude, thats my dream rig right there! FUCKING NAILED IT!!!
Cool , just subbed
Thankssssss !!
thanks for sharing Eddie. Hummer was perfect.
Glad to and thanks!
Great video
Thank you 👍
Interesting, when I heard Siamese Dream for the first time I assumed it was a crazy number of layered guitars, this is the closest I've heard to the Smashing Pumpkins sound for sure,well done!
well itnis a crazy number of layered guitars. Soma has 40
@@kristopherryanwatson lol what?
I subscribed I love the pumpkins
NICE
nice
amazing work! you got super close to the tone. If you do a match eq of the stems with izotope ozone though, you can get that tone 100% by replicating the whole signal chain. i did it and it is sooo fun to play.
i was just thinking about doing this
lace sensor are the best pickup ever made
This has a lot of comments, so I’m sure this is already been said. If you have the Siamese dream tablature book in the forward Billy breaks down his entire rig and what pedals he uses and what AMP uses and settings. It is actually from a guitar world magazine interview he did shortly after Siamese dream came out. A lot of people were fascinated by the wall of fuzz. I have been chasing that sound since 1995. You have done very well. There used to be a girl on here name fuzz box girl. She had a couple of old big muffs with the op amp mod and her tone was damn close. Unfortunately she deleted her channel and took down all her videos. I have no idea why.
Absolutely. That is where I learned the settings for my amp back in the mid 90's. The amp in this video is the modern 20 watt reissue of that amp mentioned in the tab book/article (2203 JCM 800 w/KT88's). That article has a few good tidbits but doesn't dive super deep. It handles the rhythm sound decently but only gives a little info on the leads.
I made a second video after this one that dissects the lead guitar sound beyond what is in the tab book or interviews
czcams.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/video.html
Thanks for watching!
I want to know more about this girl and her fuzz box...
what were the amp settings stated in the book?
Could you perhaps do a vid or an instruction on how you set up the settings on the H9 for Soma? Love all your videos! Can’t wait for the next!!!
I second that! I use delay and chorus when I play it, but whatever you were doing sounded way better/closer.
very cool
Damn that sounds good. So addictive to play aint it????
When you played through the amp speaker I was meh but suddenly you played through amplitude and that was IT
i don’t understand how you can get so much distortion and still actually be able to tell what notes you’re hitting. that’s always been my problem with recording heavy songs and adding a second or third guitar on makes it even more muddy
Hahaha, love the Mr. Bean photo in the background
He's a constant source of inspiration in our household 🤣
Great sound!! Love the intro! Just wondering if you have played around much bypassing the amp completely and trying to achieve the same using amp sims? Softube do a range of Marshall’s including a 2203 with KT88’s. Be interesting to hear what you get.
I've played with a couple and they get VERY close.
I’ve seen someone use a half-cocked wah before the overdrive and muff and nailed the lead tone. Add in a phaser with the rate all the way down and depth all the way up and you’ll get the Cherub Rock lead sound.
I could see that working really well. I use a Microsynth, phaser and Jordan buzz tone to get that sound.
czcams.com/video/TDSZsjFkjTg/video.html
@@EddieClark nice, i just checked that out, yeah I think yours is dead on for Cherub Rock. You even managed to get that broken speaker sort of sound you hear in the last second or two of the song, always loved that.
I really enjoyed this video and would love to know how you went about making the custom SC20. I’ve been wanting to do the same and the way you did it looks great!
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
My local amp tech made the tube change for me. The 12" enclosure is the Mojotone 18 watt combo with a 7.5" back panel to accommodate the extra amp chassis depth.
Eddie Clark Shout-out, this is one of the most useful videos I've seen on this type of subject. The gear is out of my price range but I appreciate how you don't just talk shop but show us rubes out there how all this gear achieves that sound. I'm looking to buy a Fender. I've always played nylon classical guitars and know zip about electric guitars. Any advice on what strats to stay away from?
Thanks! I'm glad you found it useful. Best advice I can give is go play as many as possible and find one that just feels right.
Great tips especially the speakers! Only thing you're missing is Billy's fingers😉
I’ll see if I can find a set on Reverb 🤣
Just picked up a 1985 Marshall Master Lead 30W solid state. Supposed to be very JMC 800 like. Looking forward to trying your amp settings!
That's awesome! I like the '80 solid states so much better than the '90s Valvestate garbage 💪👍
Thanks for watching!
Don’t dream it be it!
Had that g12 in a Marshall Studio 30 combo back in the day.
Yeh, it’s gone...and I regret it.
I've got a few of those regrets too 👍
itd be sweet if you showed how to get these tones in amplitube exclusively. i can get relatively close using my marshall and big muff, but i am just getting into amps and pedals, and unfortunately cant go buy the microsynth and harmonizer... been chasing the siamese dream tone on amplitube forever now with no avail
also a Peavey classic chorus 212 wit SUPER SAT Distortion can get those distortion sounds and less compresion
Hi mate, love your work. Thanks for the info, especially for the dist2 - I've been looking for a mxr dist ii clone for a while and this looks perfect. Thanks again. I'm also interested in the eventide harmonisor effect for soma intro. Which harmonisor are you using and what settings? Thanks.
Thank you!
I'm using an Eventide H9 so it will fit on a pedal board. The module in the H9 is called "Resonator". It allows you to set 4 steps of ascending (or descending) pitch filtered delay notes. In stereo mode, it does a left/right ping-pong that sounds amazing.
I could have stopped watching at 35 seconds and the title would still be accurate
Thank you 🙏
I filmed this one a while ago and was off on a few pieces. Most specifically; how important the MuTron Bu-Phase was. Still very much appreciated.
On a side note…
…. user name checks out. 🤣
@@EddieClark well, IMO the big muff is equally important to the phase jobby.(as far as just in the room, recorded obviously is a different story)
This guy Billy Corgans. KT88s in a Marshall? Check. Red Lace Sensors? Check. These are all those little details I remember as a teenager from the Siamese Dream tab book, lol. The only gear I went for in the 90s to be Pumpkins-y was 'a Big Muff' - which Big Muff, though? (This was before the internet was much help, remember!) I got the Sovtek Green Russian, and, well, at the time I thought it was great, but it's quite a different beast from the OpAmp. But even after getting the OpAmp reissue, I still go back to my ol' Greenie for nostalgia's sake (and it has surprisingly better clarity for individual notes!)
That sounds familiar to me! My first muff was a green sovtek as well. Couldn't figure out why it didn't sound right 🤣
That said; they're still my favourite muffs outside of Pumpkins tones.
Thanks for watching 👍
How different would it sound if I were using a stock SC20C without any mods? Great vid btw, absolutely the closest and most informative video I've seen on this topic!
I don't think it makes a huge difference TBH. Using a G12T-75 speaker is a much better investment for nailing the sound.
Awesome! Thanks
Eddie, I love these videos. I am now thinking about getting an H9. Can you talk how you got the SOMA sounds on the H9?
FYI, another great way to tame/kill that noise on the cheap is to add a second (Cheap-o Amazon tuner behind all the gain pedals)
I was chasing this tune a few years back w/ a Digitech Bad Monkey boosting an Op amp reissue into an old 80's Marshall LEAD 15 solid state mini stack (gain low/master high).
Honestly sounded pretty awesome mic'd up!
I no longer have that mini Marshall tho. : (
Damn...
Now I'm all melancholy😐🤨🙃
Very cool. Check out the Pumpkin Pi by Stomp Under Foot, I bought one the other day instead of the op amp muff. I use it with a TS9 and the tone is identical
I've tried it. It's a good fuzz pedal 👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Great video. Are you using the amp head also in amplitube or just the cabinet and speakers?
Thanks 👍
Just the cabinet and speakers. The amp is the SC20 into a UA OX for its DI feature.
Amazing walkthrough of the Siamese tones. I have a fender Strat with all single coil pickups. I love the neck pickup for warm clean tones, but am considering switching out the middle and bridge pickups for something else. What do you recommend for Siamese tones?
Just try a red lace sensor in the bridge and leave the middle for now. The Silver in the middle of the SD era Strat is just a copy of a far Strat pickup which is almost decked/level to the pickguard.
Thanks for watching!
I've always felt that in most things guitar related the first 85% of perfecting something is fairly easy for anyone who plays regularly, be it fingerings, tone, rhythm, etc. Cheers to you for working out a way to nab that last 10 or 15% and then sharing with all. I see you have other strats in your rack so I'm curious how much of a role you think the lace pickups have in getting the total sound versus standard single coil/humbuckers? crucial or just icing on the cake? Also just curious if you've ever tried a Zvex fuzz factory for lead? imho it nails that "exploding guitar" lead tone ala cherub rock w/o having to stack a bunch of gain pedals up
Thanks for watching! I've never tried a fuzz factory but I'm sure I would love it. As for Cherub Rock, I figured out how to get 99% the way there without any tricks in post after the making of this video.
czcams.com/video/QY0a63439bw/video.html
The Lace Sensors do play a role but I will be demonstrating that in my next tutorial video (going through each lead tone on Siamese Dream independently)
When you're talking about the eventide, are you referring to the H-3000? I managed to find one on eBay and it's awesome
Yup. I was just using an H9 on my board to get close but yeah the H3000 is amazing!!
Thanks for watching!
I just set up a custom MKII Pro electric kit, and I haven't played drums since 2006,3 months and I'm playing Gish and Siamese Dream, which I've never played before ,i have to start making videos,
Hey Eddie you think you would tackle some Mellon collie covers and would you do F*** You and ode to no one ? The solo in that track sounds so sporadic and awesome like corgan did it in a take on the whim. Would love to hear you play it your corgan solo tributes are the best.
I've never tried that solo. It is chaotic. I'll have to give it a shot! Thanks for watching 👍
If I remember right Billy has said he was in the room with his amp cranked all the way so he had to play that solo tight to keep it from exploding w feedback
Please do a Melon Collie tone video
This is so awesome! Would you ever make another video about the tone since you seemed to have perfected it even further in your newer videos. Also do you have Ig or something? I have so many questions 😄
Yeah, I figured out the lead tones better than here. I'm planning on eventually doing one covering the different album lead tones.
@@EddieClark Yeah, I'm definitely eager to see more. I have a marshall dsl40c, the closest I've gotten is the op amp ri, phase 90, boss super overdrive, and lastly a TC electronic mimiq which makes a huge difference in my opinion. I'd love to find an octave pedal to nail the leads but I wanna try and get as close as possible and stacking an octave fuzz along with op amp bug muff i feel like is too much, idk tho. From my own research I though he just stacked the big muff with the dist.ii but when you mentioned stacking fuzz I was surprised. You seem to know a lot more than me tho 😄
@@lake3749 there's a few pedal combos for the leads. The Mimiq is a great idea for getting the album layered sound. I do the same with a Strymon Deco
@@EddieClark If you make another video it would be much appreciated to go more in depth with the pedals and their settings and stuff. I'm not too familiar with the deco but remember seeing another video where they used it for a dub. Idk much about it, it looks like a very complicated pedal to use lol
Also, I'm very curious how the microsynth fits into the rig, is that how he did octaves? I find the octaves to be the hardest part because they always sound like an organ and stacking with the fuzz always makes it sound a but strange if it isn't an actual octave fuzz pedal. Any ideas? I'd love to see that encorporated into the final rig rundown lol
I have an op-amp big muff and I’m running it into my low gain input on my jcm 800, but I’m not sure how to dial the Marshall in.
I truly believe you will nail the lead tone when you figure out which octave pedal to use. Its in that octave pedal
Probably using some oddball, killer octave fuzz from the 60s/70s, that was sitting around that multimillion dollar studio of Billy's. I have a v4, and v5 opamp Muff and there is an "octaveness" in the muff naturally, so you really need to hunt down a v4 v5 or v6 to go along with that magical , and mysterious octave pedal he REALLY used. I honestly dont think the studioboard had as much to do with it.
😁 the octave effect is a Microsynth
The Lead Guitar Sounds of Siamese Dream (The Smashing Pumpkins)
czcams.com/video/KCegzAXgpEA/video.html
Here it is in use
czcams.com/video/QY0a63439bw/video.html
Hey man, great stuff here. Curious on your thoughts between the SC20 and the full 100watt JCM800. In your experience does the SC20 match the original in terms of that big muff into low gain channel sound?
I grew up with a 1983 JCM 800 2203. I loved it. The SC20 is 99% of the way there. Being able to run the master on 10 is a huge part of the sound with that amp. It needs to be wide open. Doing that with my 100 watt growing up is why I have tinnitus. I can do this with the 20 watt version and not go deaf. The 100 watt version may produce a little more low end but not in a way that anyone will notice in a mix or live situation. Hope that helps and thanks for watching!
TLDR - yes the 20 watt version can match the sound.
@@EddieClark Awesome! Thanks so much
Hey man, great video! Which Custom Mojotone Cab did you use for that SC20 and what kind of Tolex did you use for it??
It was in the 18 watt Marshall style enclosure in this video. The tolex is black levant like a vintage Marshall.
Thank you for watching!
This is amazing I’m starting guitar and got a strat because I love the rhythm tone of SP. Do you think a boss ds1 could also give a similar vibe to this? I definitely want to get a big muff but I also like heavier tones
Always great seeing more people start playing! A Boss DS1 is a different animal altogether but it's a great distortion sound. It may not sound like a muff BUT Pumpkins riffs will sound great if you use it anyways! Something to keep in mind is Billy himself never uses a muff live. 👍👍
@@EddieClark Thank you for the reply. Im looking for a specific sound, distorted with a dash of pumpkins. Im going to try out the Boss DS1 and then get a muff later on
I have all of these pedals and am pretty close to the sound. (Thanks to you!) Can you let me know exactly how you ran the board here. Especially how you went into the looper. Want to make sure I am hooked up correctly. Is the big muff off the looper so when I go back to rhythm the Muff stays on? I want to get it run correctly. Thanks Eddie!
behringer super fuzz on mode 2 with the big muff gets close to the siamese lead tone for cheap. excluding any modulation effects
Its really noisy and messy though
@@leob4403 skill issue
@@frankymcdonald7176 you cant get the micro synth sound with the behringer and big muff thats for sure
Was the intro improvised? It sounded freakin awesome!
Yes it was. Thanks!
We need a melon collie video
I agree
Great video! Out of curiosity, what made you pick the Phase 100 over the 90 or 95?
Thanks! I have a phase 90 as well (which I actually think sounds better on its own). The 100 is just what Billy used on Siamese Dream.
@@EddieClark Good to know!
Wonder if you’ve heard of the fender lt25/50/GT amp. Got a bunch a customizable tones and wondered if you knew of the fender-renamed tones I should use
Unfortunately I am not familiar with that amp.
MAde by mike livesley UK mike is the freaking man. I love my dist ii.
When you’re playing cherub rock and use the red + silver pickups, do you mean the out of phase bridge + middle strat sound? +Eddie Clark
Yup! That's the position I'm using but they're not out of phase. They are in phase. Out of phase sounds very nasal
I think the speaker should be greenbacks, because when Billy sold some of his gear on reverb.com a few years ago one of the mellon collie 4x12 cabs was only 100w...if it was t-75's then the cab would be 300w...also on rig rundown Billy said the cabs were always blowing speakers, way more likely to blow a greenback 25w vs a t-75 75w...lastly, on the rig rundown Billy said he always uses the classic celestion, which would most likely be the greenback seeing how ACDC & EVH used it, the t-75 didnt get popular until later hair metal and metallica, etc
www.spfc.org/band/equipment.html?equipment_id=236
I can appreciate why you might think that but the SD cabs were the standard 75 watt models. Perhaps MCIS and beyond are Greenbacks.The greenbacks just sound nothing like Siamese Dream when recorded. If you check my Mayonaise Cover, it's done using the UA OX Pumpkins preset which uses greenback IR's (Greenbacks are a common misconception) and it is the furthest of all my covers from the correct sound. By a huge amount. Greenbacks are great speakers though and I love them. They just weren't on Siamese Dream.
Do you leave the sm57 mic off in amplitude and just record using the single 414? Or perhaps alter for double tracking?
Once u played soma I subscribed!!
Okay so that last part about octaves and pitch shifting seems essential to the lead tone but it's kinda confusing. Would I add an octave down with a octave down pedal but than could I use a pitch shifter pedal (as opposed to recording and then pitch shifting post op) to add the octave up (and if the pedal allows an extra 7th)?
In this video, I added one octave up and a 7th up for the recorded lead tone. Using the octave down was just to demonstrate that adding any octave effect into the lead gets somewhat the same effect on the leads.
@@EddieClark Okay so to clairfy I dont need an octave down just upwards and maybe an additonal 7th
Hey got a question for you... Im running a marshall DSL combo with fuzz pedal into my 2notes captor attenuator and into wall of sound cab sim plug in.... If I use amplitube instead do I just turn the virtual amp off since I am using my real amp but need the cabinet and mic simulation?
That’s exactly it. I turn off the speaker simulation in my UA OX and set it to DI mode. Then I disable the head in Amplitube 5 and just use the G12T-75 speaker sims with the C414 and Senn 421
Awesome I mucked around with it yesterday and got some thing close. I just got a bit of clipping having maxed the volume on my amp and used my gain as a volume control. Love your videos mate, massive pumpkins fan.
To my ears the rhythm guitars sounded like it was miced up too far away? I don't know the album sounds a lot more direct without much room sound. But awesome either way sounds great.
Edit: Nevermind you addressed it, seems my ears a bit better than I thought