How CHEAPLY Can You EV Convert Your Old Car?
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- In today's episode we see a very happy Jack behind the wheel of a freshly electrified classic Mini, and his beaming face tells you just how much fun he’s having!
Bristol based company Fellten, design and manufacture EV retro-fitting technology for all manner of classic cars, and with their base not far from the Fully Charged offices, Jack drops by to find out more, and ask the question “Will converting a classic car ever really be a viable option?” We hope so!!
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I'm really liking Jack's focus on getting cheaper, simpler. and less powerful EVs over the last couple episodes. All I want is an electric car that gets me where I need to go, not a luxury palace with a 5 second or less 0-60.
Exactly. Car makers cram in so much electric powered gadgets... I'd even be fine with hand crank windows... just give me the basics, I'm not living in my car... just driving my five miles to work!
Unfortunately this is not it.
Me too. I’d love to do this to my car.
fully agreed.
@@chrisbailey1966 still a lot of fun though. And as explained, this is new tech in R&D. Big up to the men in tweed for funding it!
A full conversion kit is exactly what I want, it feels like SUCH a waste to get rid of my old car, plus modern EVs are putting more and more stuff in them that I don't like and find excessive.
Trouble is you can never really know if a pop welded monocoque body would hold together with the stresses caused by the weight of batteries and then passengers. The only "toughened" parts of the mini were the engine bearers and the sub frames.
Might be a project for a skilled engineer but perhaps not a keen amateur with basic welding 101.
@@t1n4444 According to this video the car weighs a hair over stock, so (at least in this case) the weight shouldn't be a problem. That said it may be that the kit for whatever model is being retrofitted in the future might include some strengthening bits.
@@KineticLatency
Hmm, the mention of "strengthening" implies the body or shell isn't "strong" enough to cope.
If you consider the first minis were designed for the "A" series engines and the suspension consisted of rubber donuts then the weight distribution could be quite different post conversion.
As before, a project best completed by an engineer and not a hobbyist.
Now, that said, if we see hydrogen fuel cells designed for smaller cars and can be engineered into old cars then who knows?
Eve are shocking to look at, no pun intended.
My big thing is safety features. That old mini will be crumpled like a coke can if its in a head on collision with a modern car or SUV
3:06 Jack standing in front of that Mini compared with the cars he usually stands in front of really shows how stupendously huge modern cars have become.
I thought the same.It's almost like he's standing in front of a toy car but it's because we have got used to SUV nonsense until we were brainwashed into it feeling like the norm.
@@jamiefox54 it’s not just that, it’s all the safety in modern cars too - these days we fully expect to survive a head on collision. In the days of the mini, you were lucky if you spent a few days in hospital before you slipped away, it meant you had time to say goodbye.
Large and Heavy is a function of the crash standards modern cars meet. The same crash that people will walk away from with a few bruises in that Polestar, are instant fatalities in the classc Mini.
@@PiDsPagePrototypes I think the idea that large and heavy equals safe is largely a red herring. Look at the huge high-speed collisions F1 drivers walk away from. Yes you probably need something larger than a Mini to meet modern safety standards, but there's absolutely no need for the enormous lorries that folk are driving around in today.
@@davidf2281 Never heard Engineering and Crash Survival Standards called a "Red Herring" before. That sounds like the same logic as 'safer being thrown from a rolling car then wearing seat belts'.
1:13 "... will set you about 40,000 Pounds in retrofitting components..."
Thanks for sharing the actual amount, and that too in the beginning!
Please re-do this video every few years with updates! The more I think about it, the more obvious it is to me that this is the way to go for mass transition. New cars are such a colossal waste of resources. We need a parts economy, just like people have been fighting for with regards to cell phone repair.
Wait, it this a re-upload? I'd have sworn I'd seen it before.
Edit: Nevermind, 2:33
No Its not the way at all . @@ChrisD__
It should be EVERY year. this topic should be brought to people's mind more often also by other media channels.
As @Chrisd__ points out Jack even mentioned in this video that they already did it last year.
4 months to go for the next one. 👍
"Buzz bar" would be a good name for it (given the electrical shock risk), but it's actually a 'busbar'. (Busbar being a contraction of "omnibus bar" -- the bar which everything goes through.)
As it just joins two components, is it actually a bus bar?
@@markthomasson5077 yup, it's a bus bar.
The rubber is primarily for electrical insulation, not durability.
Also I have never heard anyone use the word "componentry" before today.
Why not just say components?
@@weeeeehhhhh - Shrubbery… 😉
@@weeeeehhhhh Yup. It's a little hilarious he used that component as an example of something made pretty because they're "doing it nicely" but can be made cheaper (subtext: without the pretty coating) later.
I love your intro about how big we need our cars. Thank you Jack. Long life Fellten and similar-minded people !
Four years ago I was quoted £20K for my MX5 to be EV converted. Instead this year I brought a two year old Zoe, with super low mileage for £16K. Price is key. A conversion is always going to be a compromise and price wise be competing with second hand EVs which are available at very competitive prices now.
remember when companies were making digital sensors on a cartridge to fit in a 35mm film camera? No? Never caught on as technology rapidly developed and the compromises to great. Except for classic cars, cant see this really happening....
£28k for 100 mile range? - Not exactly tempting unfortunately and as Bak mentions Zoes are just great and at 16k and hopefully soon, less, v tempting
I lease the Gt135 and love it, u can hustle it down back roads probably better than a tweaked Cooper S - always out dragging the ICE out of every corner
They also handle torque distribution brilliantly - u can powerslide the front without inside wheelspin :)
Retro EV conversions for classics need to be less than 1/2 price to appeal to the masses - If I had my 916 GTV TS EV converted I would want 250 ml range, 0-60 in 7 secs or less and VNE of 90 min - @ cheaper than a used Zoe - I would still think twice at £12k
Drive in, collect within 72 hrs for sub £10k would be mass market - I appreciate it cant be done now and possibly not within several yrs, but thats how I judge it for the average guy with a sub £5k used classic
A universal BYD retro fit kit for $10k would be a winner :)
@@mattsword41 Ughhh.... not comparable at all. Film thickness digital sensors are technologically just impossible. EV conversion is not only immenently doable, but people were doing it by themselves using homemade parts 30 years ago. But those conversions where not safe do to, sometimes not safe to drive, and often very impractical... back then the motors available were not rated for continuous load and would burn up very frequently. The lead acid batteries available were bulky and heavy. And the control electronics primative or completely DIY. Todays conversion shops have access to the same or similar quality parts as what actually goes into commercial EVs. But it comes with a pricetag.
@@davidstuart4915 The history of technology is always the same. The capability goes way up and the price goes way down. To expect ultra low prices at the beginning of a new technology is unrealistic. I am currently writing this on an 8gb Raspberry Pi single board computer which is the size of a cigarette packet, costs £80 in this version (prices start at £35) and has more capability than the most expensive desktop computer you could buy 20 years ago. It can also emulate all of the most expensive consoles you could get 20 years ago. For a monitor I'm using a 42" Plasma TV that I bought 18 years ago for £1500 and weighs 40kg. My newest TV is a 55" LED with full 3D capabilities that cost £500 and weighs 16kg. From Desktop PCs to Raspberry Pis and from Plasma TVs to LED TVs the technology has become leagues better and way cheaper. That will happen with EV Conversions just the same as it has with every other technology.
Why a 70kw motor in a Mini? Way too overpowered, 40kw would be plenty. Also the cost is prohibitive, £40k plus the cost of the donor car. You could buy a new Mini electric, Fiat 500 even the Honda e and an ice powered Mini for less. I am lucky enough to have owned a few original Mini’s in the past, they were fabulous drivers cars brilliant for tight and twisty B roads and lanes, but not exactly comfortable by todays standards.
I do wish their was a big push for this, in a way of seeing as a performance enhancing kit, I feel like that would get a lot more people on board. Making hybrids and full electric.
Me too but like video say, it a race of on what affordable first, the new ev or the retrofit kit.
Hope retrofit win faster
Not going to happen till it's Self Install.
Why even bother with a DIY hybrid? Once you have the battery, the motors, the high voltage electronics, the software etc, why add the complexity of figuring out how to blend it with a gas engine?
@@patreekotime4578 If you're thinking of the EV component as a way to get more economy, yeah, that's a waste on a classic car. But if you treat it as a power adder, like a supercharger with bypass and clutch, or a large bottle of Nitrous, then it makes sense.
Could probably use the front output shaft of a 4WD transfer case as an input from an add on electric motor to drive the rear wheels.
There was a small push until the Americans jumped in and either killed them or mysteriously the factory burned down.
I think we all demand a CZcams short of Jack getting and out of a mini!!
and shots of what happened to the pointy stick😂
What is here meant by 'the pointy stick'? @@oojimmyflip
It's quite a sight, seeing Jack fitted into the Mini with his legs still bolted on, and even so his head isn't up against the ceiling...and then him standing outside it and wondering just where _did_ the stick go? Because you know it was needed.
Perv.
Mini’s have a lot of room, they are a masterpiece of design
Those legs are wide spread
What the Fellten chap says at the end is key: we essentially have 5 years or so to roll this out across the country if it should make any noticeable difference before people will just buy a new EV instead, so that means every MOT garage you see in your neighborhood should be able to order an off the shelf conversion kit for the respective model and re-do a combustion engine into an EV. Possible? Maybe, but it would need a serious government and all hands on deck approach.
Buying new cars in general is a financial hole, I don't know why people waste their money like that
I love ev conversions and have one of my own, but I think it will largely be an enthusiast thing. Cost and labor are big, but there's also safety. I love the style and fun of older cars, but when it comes to daily driving and thinking about the safety of myself and my loved ones, I gotta admit that modern cars are much more likely to protect the occupants. And that's a huge factor. Plus, the cars that are best for converting are older pre computerizing of everything, which also means less safety features. Once you get to a newer car with more safety stuff, you have a lot more work to do as far as interfacing with software expecting an ICE engine and all the sensors involved with it. Which is why we talk about converting old Minis and Land Rovers, but not, say, a 2017 Sienna.
It's also a bunch of labour and other costs, which is only going to add to the costs.
Doubly so if it turns out your mechanic botched it.
Do you think it could be done for newer cars if we bypasses the electronic gizmos? obviously would mean losing safety features, but if you could retrofit other parts into the build?
Sure, absolutely. Anyone driving modern speeds in this Mini is absolutely crazy. I would use this one to show off occasionnally, and at most as a "city" car that tops at 40-ish km/h in dense areas, maybe 60-65 max (15-20kmh less than the limit) in the countryside. I'm not going on a highway with this.
£27,000!!! To the retrofitter…. Yeah I’m out 😢
In the early 80's, I sold personal computers for around £4000 per unit. The same PC with far greater ability is now £400 or even less. If you requested a custom PC to fit into a retro case, that would inevitably cost more. Thanks for the video and can we see the outtakes of you being eased into the Mini? 😊
Hardly a matching analogy. A car is a mobile cabin, the value is that the cabin can move and take you somewhere in some comfort. The systems behind the motion are a significant part but still there is the cabin and the comfort it provides - this is the value that is retained by a good condition old car to be converted (without even mentioning the nostalgia). The chassis of a PC is of little value even when new, it is just a structure to contain the real value - the compute resources, which at the pace of development in PCs becomes less value much faster than do any particular car, though you can change the PC internals and keep the same case quite often - I certainly did - as long as the standard the chassis design followed is still current for the components.
Mini’s are surprisingly easy to get in and out of and have plenty of room for larger drivers(both height and bulk).
@@sergentcolon1 Except for mutant sized people it seems ...
@@barendencrone try fitting one in an Amiga... 😊
Why would it cost more?
You are using the same motherboard, power supply, wiring and components as the current generation. the only old part is the housing3
I know this because I have a core I 5 and a Core I 10 in cases that originally had Pentium 1 and 3's
With EV's the real problem is the battery cost and lack of energy density
To get an EV with any useful range (sub 100 miles is a joke) you need 700-1,200lb in batteries which doubles the weight of a mini which started out at 1,275lbs.
I've been watching Fellten from the very first video they made on CZcams when they converted a very yellow Mazda MX5. Glad to them here on Fully Charged well done Jack good to see you,re looking further a field than just those big SUV's. At 6' 2" I too can fit in a mini, without the stick and gel though, and it was just like driving a go cart great fun, loved it.
Nicely put together video.
It's much more environmentally friendly to convert an existing ICE vehicle into a BEV. Unfortunately it's not easy, and the newer the doner, the harder it becomes.
After about 2000, more cars used CAN data buses to allow various modules to communicate. Removing the ICE and it's ECM causes all sorts of issues with data buses, giving warnings, codes and sometimes complete failure of other modules in the vehicle. This is the challenge to overcome, which will take many hours of diagnostics by some very smart technicians.
I've been involved with converting an old Freelander 1 from diesel to electric, using salvaged parts from other damaged BEV vehicles, and that's not gone to bad, mainly because the Freelander 1 systems are older and able to function as stand alone units, so the brakes still have ABS, and the speedometer still functions.
I'd like to do a similar conversion on my Freelander 2, but alas the electronics in that vehicle would pretty much prevent a BEV conversion at this time.
i'm dreaming about doing that on my 1999 Citroen XM 2,5 td.
but in DK, taxes are insane 🤬
Would it need custom control modules? Is there such a thing? There has to be a scene building up for that. Since manufacturers lock everything down, the only way would be to go open source on the control units.
@@jochenstacker7448
Type approval" might be tricky to arrange.
@@t1n4444 depends on the country I guess. If you convert a car to EV, you'd have to have it approved as a one-off build, the same as if you nailed it together from Lego and 2x4s. 😁
So I honestly don't know if they check the modules for software, since whatever you'll put in there has nothing to do with the original car anymore.
With newer cars, I would expect there to be all sorts of software locks designed to prevent tampering without approval of the manufacturer. To get around them, I would not be surprised if you ended up needing to rip out and replace almost everything electronic in the car - even components like the radio and infotainment screen which have nothing to do with the combustion engine. The need to do this would, of course, drive up the price of the conversion.
Electro-fitting 🤔🤔
Bang the drum “circular economy, circular economy” repeatedly and loud, may help open up your market. Love it.
Hey Jack, Fully Charged team, you should montage a number of "Jack standing next to a car" shots with the ones next to the Mini, to really bring home the message, how big current cars have become!😉
Oh and I would love to see the video footage of Jack folding into the Mini🤭
Hope it’s not too long a wait until these cost £10k or less. I have a list of cars I’d like to convert!
yes mee too😊
but in DK i'm dont see that happening anytime soon 🤬
we are unfortunately not allowed to do that, not without paying a big amount of taxes
Great video! I’d love to see more electric conversion content! Think of how cool it’d be to see an old Impala or Cadillac running fully electric 🤯
How awesome to watch a CZcams video without adverts! Thank you!
And a really great and informative video!
Jack needs to highlight some companies in the US doing the same.
Well done Fellten. Circular economy needs companies like you. Another interesting review thanks Jack
I'd love to convert my classic Mini. I drive it every day all year round and it's a cracking little run around but the petrol engine with the carb does need some work to keep running in tip-top condition. The amount of maintenance that would be removed just by converting it would be massive and would make such quality-of-ownership difference. I don't know realistically how cheap they could go but if they could get them even down to £10-15k I'd jump at the chance.
MY DREAM: a classic car body on a fully electric platform with modern suspension and braking systems.
Great video, I love this kind of stuff. I'd love to see you follow up and see them install this.
FYI, a busbar is an electrical conductor, I imagine they're using them on the battery packs somewhere. The rubber coating is the insulator.
Nice one, thanks
Great video. And fantastic to see a local company making things too, yes it's expensive for now but hopefully the costs will come down. If the UK govt would support it like the French do with subsidies then it could be like transition one.
It's going to take a while for EV conversions to be anywhere near a new car in terms of dollars spent per horsepower or kwh of range. ( I should know, I'm doing one, $25000 for just the EV parts, and even then it's just 100 miles of range but 650hp)
If you're doing this, it's as a passion project and for fun, or you absolutely adore a specific car and want to make it the ultimate daily driver
Great vid Jack, good to see Fellten's kit in detail. 👍⚡🔋
there will always be folks who love their old tech car and will be willing to go EV.
I have a 1976 Mazda 121 that I would love to give the EV treatment. The drivetrain can wait until I have restored the body though, so there is time for more development
I’ve a 1949 Hudson… bring it on! It gets 10 kilometers on a liter so it’s not that bad but no noise and no smells would be more awesome!
Yeah this will be a hobby for a long time to come
LOVE what they're doing here! It may not be the best in terms of range yet, better batteries/more efficient motors will make this better as time goes by.
I think they should do kits for buses, lorry's, bin lorry's, the types of vehicles that have about a 30 year life expectancy but also are used everyday.
Because the saving in fuel costs would easily offset the cost of the kit. And the people who own buses, lorry's and bin lorry's are massively interested in saving money, show them a spread sheet and they will instantly buy these kits, they don't worry about anything else except fuel costs, maintainence costs.
Plus tons of torque right away, no annoying gearbox, silence and not polluting the cities. It's such a huge win.
Agree. Check out sea-electric in Australia. They are doing a lot of work on commercial vehicles and have a AU$1 billion contract to electrify 8500 Toyota Hiluxes and Landcruisers for the mining industry.
That is the exact reason Musk quoted in the Tesla Semi release event - the savings to the eco-system of reduced commercial vehicle emissions is massive. It's something like 5% of all vehicles, and 20% of all emissions. Plus on top, commecial vehicles often park at warehouse type buildings, add a solar powered recharging station to those, and every time the truck/bus/etc is parked, it can be recharging - some companies could easliy have a fleet of delivery vehicles that effectively cost nothing to run outside of tyres, insurance, registration, suspension mainteance and a replacement battery every ten years - get the cost of the battery down to the price of replacing or rebuilding a truck or bus motor, and companies would be throwing money at the conversions folks.
Check out Kleanbus
There are already companies doing this to buses, since there is a very large push to make buses electric.
So very close to the million subscribers, I’ve been watching your channel growing for 8 years. Roberts a hero, uk
That would be amazing. Would love to see Jack trying to shoehorn in there. Please upload the out takes.
I would like to see a company start turning out revived car lines with EV. The Nash Metro, the Studebaker Lark, the Ford Falcon.
So glad that Zero EV has become so serious and professional under this new banner. Well done and long live Fellten!
The Chinese have been churning out the Wuling mini EV and other similarly sized EV cars. The Wuling is practically the same size as the classic Mini Coopers. That's just proof that small compact EVs have a market.
Great video, I was lucky enough to take the mini with the wrap in for a test drive, an experience like no other was a strange feeling with it being so quite, I believe it’s great to change if it’s going to be driven often but if it’s going to be driven on the odd occasions should be kept classic to enjoy it as original
I have a 31 year old vehicle (not a MINI) that suits me well and is so much fun to drive and I have looked into the idea of retrofitting it to be full electric.
The cost estimates I have received so far have been very prohibitive but if it can become reasonable in the next 5 years, then I will do it since I have already had the rusted out metal replaced with new steel.
I’m surprised that there aren’t companies producing prefabricated conversion kits to turn conventional vehicles to electric. Seems like it would bring the cost down considerably.
In the same vein of retrofitting,
I have always had an idea that I could just put a Tesla axle on the rear axle of my 09' FWD CR-V and have the controller and the battery fit to the boot, where there's plenty of storage space, and then use something like a thumb throttle leaver or something a like, electric bikes use to engage the battery powered axle.
That way I can drive EV when I want to or drive petrol for longer distances. Same concept of a plug-in hybrid but in this case retrofitting an older vehicle to run on either or, instead of in conjunction with each other.
I would absolutely love something like this for our 2011 Astra. Engine in that was absolutely abused by the previous owner so it's misfiring like an absolute beater, but it _looks_ gorgeous inside and out. So to convert that into an EV would be glorious.
Thoroughly impressed that Jack managed to get himself inside that Mini.
Having had 4, I’m not
I love everything about this. I hope to see many electric classic minis on the road soon
I doubt it, there aren’t that many left on the road.
this channel is almost at 1,000,000 subs! i've been a viewer of this channel for about 5 years. 👏🏽
I would love to convert my fourteen year old Peugeot 4007 to electric. It is in superb condition, very comfortable and perfect for my needs. I have had the car for twelve years and have no intention to replace it. I have looked around and not found anything on the market that is as good.
The issue is classic cars are not cheap and getting dearer, a Mini in a usable condition, a Capri or Cortina MK3 GT (these are what I want) will set you back a pocket destroying amount before even thinking of buying an EV kit.
Add in having to modify the vehicle structure, and that kills any resale value, making the bolt-in style a requirement within that cost of conversion.
Nice mini, I would have wanted to lose the rear seats and put more batteries there to increase range but such a conversion is something I would really like to do. Having a generalised kit available would make that so much easier to do. In terms of such kits, I feel it would be for the best if the kit is based on the cars weight and come without batteries so that such things could be tailored to the individual vehicle. Unfortunately the prices mentioned in the video are either the same or more than what you would spend on a new EV (which I really can't see myself being able to afford).
Electric classic cars managed to squeeze more batteries in. Also 300hp! Check their channel.
Well, adding more of the most expensive element is not going to help with the cost issue. Lithium will get cheaper eventually, but I wouldn't bet on it within 2 years.
@@concinnus well I doubt it.
If the demand is high, the price goes up.
And demand, thanks to EU and other maniacs will skyrocket in next 12 years.
Later, after 2035 it will be only worse.
At Fully Charged live in Austin in 2020, there were a few conversions including a 280Z that cost about $70,000 to convert. In a little over three years, it seems the price has come down a bit. I'm very encouraged that conversions will be a thing.
I think the price can come down massively when a company doesn't do them bespoke to order, but brings in cars does conversions on mass to be sold at their car show rooms. That will reduce the cost massively and be a great growth market in the future.
I really want to do an EV conversion on my '86 Fiero. We'll see how expensive that is when I get ready to drop a powertrain in (gotta restore some of the frame first, and I'll probably work on some body panels and what not too)
Love Fieros! Had 3 of them in 80/90s
You want to do it yourself, like we all do with our classics, same as swapping a transmission or adding a turbo, a lot of the enjoyment comes from putting it together in your own garage.... but all these kits seems to be 'Only fitted by authorised,...', same BS as 'Ony Dealer Serviced for Warranty Conditions'.
Did you see the Ronald Finger rebuild?
@@john_barnett yup! It was awesome!
@@PiDsPagePrototypes
Don't forget you'd have to satisfy the DoT (in UK) and your insurer as to a converted vehicle's structural integrity etc, etc. After all it's the insurer that carries the risk.
It might be useful to contact your insurer (any insurer) in advance to determine if you could get cover ... and what certification is required prior to acquiring insurance cover.
Far too many "starry eyed enthusiasts" are blissfully unaware of the legalities of the situation. Not to mention quite a few lack the engineering skills and facilities required.
I’m thinking of converting my old classic 2012 Tesla in 2035! 😂🤣😂🤣
The biggest issue is the availability of charging stations with high charge rates and batteries that can be charged an awful lot quicker than the current ones.
To be blunt, unless you only need a car for short journeys that you can charge at home over night I would give ev's a miss for the next ten years.
Although by then most people will not be able or allowed to own a vehicle I expect.
This seems like the most sensible thing. Please keep actively updating on this. I feel like if we want to be genuine about emissions and impact, this answer makes the most sense, and is the best looking! Classic cars are so beautiful!
I so want the Transition One thing to happen. Modern small cars last a lot longer than classic minis for sure and they would be massively economic to convert. I hope Feltten can do a similar kit
Absolutely, but I'd like to see them switch from a motor bolted to an existing gearbox to hub motors. This way you free up a lot of under-bonnet space for batteries, so that you could have a half decent range.
Currently the range of a transition one vehicle is very low.
I used to think that too. However, with hub motors you add a lot of unsprung mass, which makes the car more uncomfortable to drive and is very bad for suspension in general. Additionally most folks don't like how they look...
@@antontaylor4530 Hub Motos are good for lightweight bikes, they're not good for cars. Too much "Un-Sprung Mass" negatively affects the handling and ride - that's why Ally Wheels are prefered over Steel.
A motor and gearbox that can bolt in under the floor, directly coupled to the Differential of a rear wheel drive, with the battery pack up front to mimic the mass of an engine and transmission, is ideal for a lot of vehicles, from small two-doors up to giant Pick-ups.
Front Wheel Drive is easier to drop in an all-in-one replacement like shown here, with an extra battery where they fuel tank used to be.
What's missing, is a long-range set-up for Mini Vans and Pick-Ups, where the large unused spaces under the rear floor could have extra batteries added.
@@antontaylor4530 For simplicity some converters use the existing gearbox, but the one in this video eliminates it. On many classics the original driveshafts and diffs can't handle the EV torque, so if you are going to replace those anyway, might as well ditch the entire transmission and either place the electric motor in the transmission tunnel, or get rid of the entire drive line and mount the motor in the rear going striaght to the half-shafts.
@@PiDsPagePrototypes There are a couple of EV manufacturers (such as Lightyear and Protean) using them already, and the unsprung mass problem turned out to be much less of an issue than people thought.
These aren't race cars. It's not as critical as it would be in a racing car, suspension technology is advanced enough that the problem isn't insurmountable.
I wonder if the upcoming in-wheel motors (Elaphe, etc) will make conversions easier / cheaper? It'd free up space for more batteries etc.
Adding weight inside the wheel (unsprung mass) is bad for handling and worse for ride. Drive packs that feet in to exsisting Differentials or Drive Trains is a better solution for anything larger then a Mo-ped.
I love old cars and I also want to be environmentally sustainable! I hope there could be a one size fits all solution to retrofitting.
Would love to convert my 70s vw camper but some way to go before it's affordable for me. Wish the wheel hub motor gave a hybrid option, or some of the promised drop in/ 'shoebox' range extender motors meant smaller battery packs were more realistic helping to cut costs. Fingers crossed.
A lot of people are also sentimental to their beloved cars, so such conversions are the best option to go electric and breathe new life to an old flame. 🔥👌
Love the idea, let me know when I can find a kit for my scirocco or better for an RX8 ^^
Sure they could sort you out a kit if you have £40k burning a hole in your pocket
Subscriber number is still subbornly hovering just below the 1million mark. Come on people, this channel deserves to hit that 1 million milestone!
What a cracking episode! Thanks fully charged. Thabks Jack
I feel that as a main stream mean to help transitioning to EVs, converting ICE car into EVs is probably already dead or will remain limited to specific cases. Within the next 5 years, what will happen is that the EV 2nd hand market is going to increase even more and there won’t be any logic/financial interest to convert an ICE car to EV.
It will be only for hobbyists converting classic cars. But that's fine.
@@wiegraf9009good thing I'm learning to drive (and gonna smash it) and getting a classic for my first car. Doing this in 6 years could be really cool and it'd be interesting when everything around is electric anyway
great video, would love to retrofit my car
Mini?
@@philtucker1224 no Volvo 850 but I think it would be a great electric estate, and their is not much choice in electric estates anyhow
@@Jerra3007 yes, very true. However (if you are intending to keep the car as a classic collectible) I still think they will become far more valuable if they still have their original ICE engines…
@@philtucker1224 potentially, system like the Fellten one do not cut or drill anything and the original engine is kept on its caddle in the wooden box the electric drivetrain came in (y)
I've actually been doing this to old 4-runners, throwing a honda 4 wheeler motor under the hood to charge the batteries and selling them for 35k. Essentially it's a 300mpg car that will last 10x what a standard car would.
(Costs about 8-10 USD for the conversion. Helps that I had 4 honda 4 wheelers laying around haha)
Fascinating. I wish HMG would boost these companies rather than big oil. (we know why) it is not a total solution but certainly fills a sector of the car ownership. Minis (original) were Superb. I think Issigonis would love this.He would lead the EV world, Simpler,Cheaper,Faster and more space!
I did mine for £2000. DVLA won't update the V5 to electric though because it's a 2003
Surely there's more to it than its age? What other things are required for DVLA to accept it?
Curious to understand the bureaucracy too - I was under the impression that in the UK you’d need an IVA since the engine/gearbox is a big chunk of the original car. Then the insurance would be a minefield too no doubt?
@@Umski insurance is a pain, only really 1 or 2 options. Its all based on points system, stay within the allowed points and IVA not required. I use original gearbox and so they view it as engine swap. Some videos and overview on my CZcams channel
As the owner of 98 Cooper this video was brilliant to watch. Was left wondering what the charge time was like and the top speed relative to that weight lost.
However I'd love to know if there is a option to have a gear type selection? Half the fun of a Mini is quick shifting up through the four gears, I think I'd miss that if I couldn't replace it with something.
Have a look at the recharged heritage site. Lots of info on there about 0-60 etc
You can't
Fantastic stuff - inspiring video!
Yes, if there’s not, there should be standard kits for many old cars like the mini. There are lots of these old cars that people want to keep and are technically sound. Think of many older model Volvo, BMW, Citroën, Volkswagen etc. However, the price of the kits should under €15.000. There are millions of these cars around and it would be better for the environment, planet, jobs etc., if these cars were not destroyed but converted.😎
Magnificient episode! Loving this recent new content you guys have been producing, and people we are are 2000 subscribers away from 1 million, these guys truly deserve a sub!
*1 mil
@@danz_w Good you noticed the typo, fixed the comment!
First?
You did it
Well put we learnt loads, hope it takes off brilliant stuff
Do not ask where the stick went, but oh it was worth it 😂
I think there's a real future for retrofitting of commercial vehicles. Transits and Vivaros that don't do a lot of range - which is a lot of them, such as tradesmen in London. Lots of room under the floor for a battery pack, and you've got a long vehicle sales lifespan (Mk 1 Vivaro was 12 years of the same model). Not for everyone, but that's what I'd be looking at for a business - particularly with a Vivaro needing a new gearbox every few years, and people generally chucking £5k at if if you buy and fit new at a main dealer.
Great video! Love you channel :)
I'm really happy you asked that final question about affordability and ease of access, because with all these wonderful ideas (I'm not being sarcastic, I find retrofitting brilliant) it's always what it comes down to. And I'm a bit pessimistic when it comes to retrofitting as a "wide" solution to get most if not some people an EV. I think that as long as it's not a strong incentive by big car manufacturers, it simply won't happen. Why would they give the CAD of their models? And for them, yes there is the possibility of like...selling their car a second time, by upgrading one sell already sold to someone else and you bought used, which is financially appealing. But I doubt the cost of manufacturing and maintenance (because there will be returns etc.), all that is worse it for them. I do hope they'll prove me wrong though, but I doubt it.
From what I've seen, I see retrofitting as a wonderful hobbyist thing, but a hobbyist thing nonetheless...I love the idea of converting a Mini Cooper that has some historical or even just sentimental value. But I love more the idea that I could convert my everyday Renault Modus into and EV to produce less co2, and stop paying for the petrol industry. It would make more sense. But alas, my Modus will probably die in five-ten years with a petrol engine inside, and I'll upgrade to an already EV. Or just bike and use the bus for my family I guess.
Electric Classic Cars headed by Richard Morgan (an old friend of Fully Charged) do kits for classic car conversions tailored to specific models. They sell them on to approved fitters who can then pop them in to a fossil car in exactly the same manner as with Fellten. Everything is ready to go. It's not much more complicated than building a radio controlled car kit. That's why it can take as little as ten hours to complete a conversion if the donor car is in good condition. There are a number of companies doing this and it will become an expanding trend.
I would hope the posters take notice of the "approved fitter" thing.
@@t1n4444 Exactly! We are a long long way off affordable conversions. Don't get me wrong I love these things. If you really want a classic and have loads of money then this is great ... otherwise just spend the same on an existing EV and get twice the range, comfort, performance and crucially safety. (Unfortunately an original Mini can only drive on our roads because it doesn't have to meet the latest crash test regulations for new cars. All other cars were much smaller on the roads back in the day ... don't try crashing into a hefty modern SUV in an old Mini.)
The software side will also be wanted I think. It is overlooked at the moment but will probs become pretty standard, I.e. the fusion of gps, drive assist and software control of things like climate, seat position, music etc.
I used to have a VW bus, 69, red w/ white top. Loved it, best camping vehicle ever. It would be nice to have an electric 69. Ok, so the id Buzz is coming out, but all I really want is my old 69 back, fully EV, lots of range, no infotainment screen, no useless gadgets. Maybe a good stereo system, and disc brakes that’s all. All pretty much attainable, except the 400+ miles of range, that would cost.
I have a 1993 Taurus wagon. I would like to convert into a hybrid. Cram a 8kwh or so battery in the floor well of the 3rd row rear facing seat. Install a couple wheel motors for the rear wheels. Install a thumb switch to trigger the motors and regen paddle on the steering wheel. Granted, id still have to start the gas engine, but basically just run it in idle til the battery runs out, and still be able to use regen
If conversions cost more than a brand new EV then it will always be a niche market.
Great video! Explained well the conversion thinking. Not sure why he was wearing the blanket from the back of his grandma's couch.
Everyone talking about converting classic cars, I have a 2007 car and had it since 2009. I got zero intentions of getting rid of it to the point where I am about to seriously put some money into if freshen it up.
When EV has to be a thing I would want to keep my car and convert that (if push seriously came to shove) so I hope it becomes more cost effective and available to a wider range of cars.
ah, that great big "truck" steering wheel ! and that long gear shift ... loved them !
Great ep. Jack. Now I can see just how tall you are next to the mini! How did you manage to shoehorn yourself in there?
Great video, keep up the good work.
my model car had an option for 4wd, mine doesnt have it, however I have considered repurposing the rear driveshaft/differential to make it into a manner of hybrid vehicle, namely regen braking.
I’m interested in this type of thing less for retrofitting an ICE car but more for my interest in expanding the range on my beloved Spark EV - one of the funnest cars I’ve ever driven. Even using the space in the original pack and modern technology you could easily double the range.
Cool, I can’t wait to convert my Mark IV. Retro fitting the sunroof with a solar panel will be a must.
you should do a video on Edison motors, a Canadian Logging company that retrofitted a Diesel-electric powerplant into an old truck and how their impact could be on future of electric trucks. Diesel-electric? Yes. Why, how and every other question is up to you to ask them.
Could be a great video. Really.
Electro Automotive in Felton California started selling EV conversion kits in 1979. After 30 years they have retired.
Really enyoyed this. I know this channel is focused on fully electric, but I have always wondered why no one seems to offer an aftermarket hybrid conversion kit. Say, I own a 2012 Elantra, couldn't they find a why to electrify the rear wheels and get the car to spend a lot less fuel in city driving or accelerating?
Apparently the only big tool you need to do these conversions is a Jack😂
Great video, thanks.
I wish the government would put incentives to this sort of work. I saw a really great looking 1970's Cadillac just yesterday... how great would that be as electric. Also, here in my area there is a big problem with people stealing catalytic converters off of cars... those are not cheap to replace (from what I hear)... how great would it be for them to just convert over. Those are often work vans that really don't need a lot of range anyway as they just drive to a local work spot and spend a good portion of their day in one locale. But I'm thinking this is going to have to come more to the Transition One price point to help the folks who really cannot afford a newer car.
I expect the cat converter thieves are just keeping their hand in for when they start nicking everyone’s Lithium batteries at 8k apiece..
@@philtucker1224 Those things are a bit heavy... if folks start doing that I'm sure you'll hear stories of thief trapped under car battery having to be rescued and then jailed.
This is the sort of thing that needs to exsist, the bafang kits on bicycles have worked wonders for people that want to breath new life into their bikes, Electric installation is much easier than petrol I'm surprised we haven't seen a huge surge from the kit-car market yet
It's been so long since i wanted to see the 1 million mark...you are soooo close...early Congratulations !!!
If you can do the conversion yourself, build the battery packs yourself, and get a great deal on a vehicle that you restore/rebuild yourself, you can make a 100 mile range (great for city) EV for 10K USD.
Source: I did this.
Good policy good help this along. Love to get my hands on a SAAB 900 that I loved as a kid converted to electric.