Tower Controller FORCED a pilot to land for dangerous behavior. Phoenix Gateway airport. REAL ATC
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- čas přidán 16. 02. 2024
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"you definitely should not be taxiing around without an instructor, that's dangerous" after been force to land at an ulfamiliar airport is odd!
If you listen, he says "instruction", not "instructor". He probably meant that if unfamiliar, she should ask for more specific instruction rather than trying to figure it out on her own.
@@BlueSkyUp_EU This is what was actually said. But also, she HAD an instruction from the tower. It was something like “right on kilo, then half-right on XXXX” and I believe she stopped on XXXX when told to stop moving and contact ground. I’m not a pilot, so not too familiar with the tower-ground handover, but she definitely had turn-by-turn instructions.
She was given an instruction to cross 12R and then contact ground. She needed to contact ground for a taxi clearance before proceeding beyond where tower had cleared her to. She proceeded to taxi without contacting ground and (therefore) was taxiing without a clearance.
@@PakledHostage look at 3:21 in the video. She was told to make a half-right turn onto Victor, cross 12R, then contact ground. Those instructions are out of order, but that’s what the tower said. If she turned onto Victor before contacting ground, that’s because she had instructions to turn onto Victor. Contacting ground was the last thing she was supposed to do, per those instructions. If the tower has a problem with her doing what she’s told, that seems like a tower problem. An I missing something here? I saw another video on this that labeled the taxiways, and the one diagonal to the runways is indeed Victor. She followed all of the instructions.
I don't have an airport diagram, so you might be right. But "turn right onto victor and contact ground" is also different than proceeding along victor without contacting ground. I like to think I would have stopped and called ground, even if unsure (because that's the normal thing to do and the tower's instruction WAS weird), but under the circumstances, maybe I would have made the same mistake? At the end of the day, it was a mistake though, and that's what they were upset about.
We're missing whatever caused the atc to call for an immediate climb to 3500, which obviously pissed him off something fierce
Terrain maybe?
@@garystewart3110 Closest terrain is the San Tan Mountains, about 6 miles to the south and not that high. There was definitely a second aircraft from the recording. My guess is that there was a traffic conflict between XD and that other aircraft caused by something XD did, but that it's not in this clip because it wasn't captured by LiveATC.
That has to be the case because there is definately something missing here@@geoffreyreuther5260
i assumed she was in airspace with out permission (why he was mad) most of the class delta in area tops out around 3000
and Bravo is over all that
Would love to hear what was going on before this audio starts. As it is, not sure what kind of expedited climb he was expecting out of a 172.
That's exactly what I thought. Did he think she was flying an F-16?
Exactly, "expedite" the dawdling 400-600 fpm climb at 60 knots or so. It only counts as a steep climb because it is barely going forward.
I thought it was because she turned before or as she climbed not climbed then turned as instructed.
You guys don’t understand, she turned right in front of a jet causing a conflict between outbound and inbound..along with being at the wrong altitude and turning the wrong heading. She was a train wreck..
Hello ! May Allah protect and guide you to his light and happiness in this life and the hereafter, God bless, Ameen. Excuse me for giving a little presentation of Islam, because it is very misunderstood nowadays, especially on those « Antichrist's » times, where media and politics are mixed to distort history and truth. And terrorists (puppets of the Antichrist) who misinterpret verses, out of ignorance and political motivations, and take them out of historical context (just like radical atheists do by the way) don't help either. Thank you very much for your time.
First of all, if you have any questions regarding Islam and yourself, just open the Quran randomly, and you will find the answer in front of you, like a miracle and a sign from God.
Islam is an arabic word that means the Surrender to the One and Only God, our Creator, Protector, Provider, who gives us life and all that we have, we are safe and sound by his will and grace, we are His and to Him we return, and we have to thank him in this trial life by submitting to him by our free will, or later in the Day of judgment when it's too late to save our own skin. Islam was the original Religion descended to earth from heaven with Adam and Eve (peace and blessing be upon them) in the beginning of humanity. and was passed to people with the succession of the 124 000 prophets and 315 messengers of God to all nations and civilizations since, passing by Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ismaël, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, David, Solomon and Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon them) during the history of mankind, the last replaces and completes the previous, until the succession of the last messenger of God fourteen centuries ago, Muhammad (Peace and blessing be upon him) to complete the noble morals of all mankind, to bring humans and jinns out of darkness into light, and to purify people's religion and belief from corruption and polytheism, and return it to purity and true monotheism, like it was in the times of the prophets (Peace and blessing be upon them).
Many Religions that we know nowadays, at their beginning were true and under Islam, initiated by one of the prophets of God, but their original teachings, history and scriptures have been corrupted over time with falsification and polytheism, or lost and replaced with false ones. That's why Islam is the only Religion accepted by God nowadays, which consists in bearing witness that there is no god besides Allah (God in Aramaic, the original language of Jesus and the Gospel), and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger, just like Jesus and Moses and others are His servants and messengers. Never a messenger of God said he was God or literally son of God, it was the people after him who changed the words of God and corrupted the Religion. God is unique and absolute, He does not need to have a family and sons or to associate anyone else with His kingdom, He can simply create whatever He wants, everything belongs to Him, and to Him everything will return. Allah said in Surah Al-Mu’minun : “God has never begotten a son, nor is there any god besides Him. Otherwise, each god would have taken away what it has created, and some of them would have gained supremacy over others. Glory be to God, far beyond what they describe. The Knower of the hidden and the manifest. He is exalted, far above what they associate. (91-92 / Translated by ITANI).
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Allah said in Surah Al-Ikhlas : In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
Say, “He is God, the One. God, the Absolute. He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none comparable to Him.” (1-4 / Translated by ITANI).
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Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with thee, say, "I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me!" - and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as all unlettered people, "Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?" And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away - behold, thy duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.
Verily, as for those who deny the truth of God's messages, and slay the prophets against all right, and slay people who enjoin equity - announce unto them a grievous chastisement.
It is they whose works shall come to nought both in this world and in the life to come; and they shall have none to succour them.
(19-22 / Translated by Muhammad Asad)..
God said : Say, “We believe in Allah, and in what was revealed to us, and in what was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and in what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We do not differentiate between any of them. And to Him, we surrender.”
(2:136 / Translated by Community)
Salam (Peace) -----------------------------------
Former Center controller here, I never knew you could force a pilot to land at an airport. I don't think we could, this is odd
So many deadly GA crashes lately. Some of the pilots were known among ATCs (& social media followers) for having poor aviator skills. Probably some would still be alive if ATC would have done something similar with them. Maybe FAA is trying to do smth about it, idk
The controller may be well intentioned, but he has ZERO authority to direct anyone to land. He can file a report, or pilot deviation, which he did, but anything more would be advisory. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
@@hziemba Shouldn't she have known he has no authority and therefore refuse to land? If it is as you say, both the pilot and the controller are playing a game without any of them knowing the rules of the game...
I think 911 proved that ATC can force planes to land.
@@Boodieman72Under a full government command, yes. Though not allowed from a single tower controller. It’s public airspace. I dont see any single problem at all with what happen.
This controller is a known problem.
Thinks he knows everything and that he is gods gift to ATC. Been this way for years.
Seems to be a more common occurrence over the past decade or so. The quality, and attitude, of ATC has been in rapid decline.
ATC: Here’s a possible pilot deviation because I expect you to climb like an F16 in a C172.
No, it was a PPD because she wasn’t reading back assigned headings, or anything for that matter, and she turned to the wrong heading causing a jet to literally sky rocket..so she turned right into the departure corridor. That’s the issue, and being someone who flys jets..it’s a major issue and aggravating when idiots like this turn right in front of us due to incompetence.
I... really need more context. This whole thing is very bizarre. They treated her like a child.
Rumor at the FBO is she was so emotional after they berated her on the air she cried for an hour then sold her plane.
@@exploreraa983obviously had no business piloting an aircraft if a tone of voice made her vapor lock.
@@exploreraa983 No way… you serious?
@@pjhaebe i disagree, that was public humiliation and beratement more than tone of voice. u listen to the whole thing? how would you feel if everyone you flew with heard you get called a danger to aviation and restricted from flying out? that has nothing to do with piloting a 172
@@ddthompson42 yes. FR24 shows a sale recorded YESTERDAY and a position flight today at Houston.
Forced to land at an airport, then gets yelled at for not being familiar with the airport? I must be missing something that happened previously but not seeing why she was labeled as a “danger to the NAS”.
She barely had any idea how to fly and listen to instruction. She deserves all the trouble she's getting. The instructor that passed her needs to be punished as well
I disagree that was hardly an infraction compared to what goes on daily.. @@smudent2010
She cant master english either
She has an accent and speaks slowly. That’s... not actually a problem. I see nothing here indicating that she failed to follow any instruction, though we’re clearly not getting the whole story. The person saying “she barely had any idea how to fly” is basing that on what, exactly? Also, anyone who has a problem with her English needs to A) say exactly which transmission they can’t understand, and B) demonstrate their proficiency on the radio in their second language.
@@ahgflyguy Agreed. There's some clear biases in a lot of people's opinions here and everyone wants to point fingers at SOMEONE but honest I feel there's not enough information here to pinpoint blame at anyone. Controller seems like an ass though based on this short clip.
Expedite climb immediately.
I’m in a 172!!!!😂
I’m giving her all she’s got , captain !
@@22noobtube 😂
The video started with no explanation what she did wrong, which probably was a justified reason for "forcing?" her to land, I just have never heard of this done before in my 55 years of flying. Mabe it was busting into controlled airspace areas, which I agree with the controller but wish the video maker would have explained. I found it a little harsh though chewing her out about landing at an airport she was ordered to and not being "familiar" with. They should have given her progressive taxi instructions from the get go. It sounded like they shook her up pretty bad. Anybody knowing more about this incident or the outcome please let me know would be appreciated. In the interest of Aviation safety of course. JOE. CFIAM Lake Havasu, Arizona.
Yes, as I can't get this off my mind, I definitely would like to hear more of the ATC tapes. Because if all that attitude was for no "good" reason , shaking up an obviously low time private pilot could have endangered her life. CFIAM JOE. Lake Havasu, Arizona.
At KLAF, we had a "cleared only for FULL STOP" when a student pilot wanted to keep working in the pattern after ignoring 3 instructions, overshooting centerline, and causing another airplane to maneuver to avoid a head-on collision. The Tower said "nope, you can't keep flying today, you are cleared only to come back to the ground"
Agreed. If he thought there was danger, he should not have overloaded her in the air. Coax it out of the sky like a wild bird, deal with your feelings on the ground.
@@webcucciolo Yikes! Definitely justified there.
I agree..she's clearly a somewhat new Private Pilot, and this guy was razzing her mercilessly. ATC is there to HELP pilots.
Really not a fan of the ground controller piling onto this lady and saying you shouldn't taxi at airports you're unfamiliar without an instructor, implying pilots can never fly to an airport they haven't been to without first getting a airfield ground familiarization from an instructor? Nah we have airport diagrams, NOTAMs, and hot spots so we can preflight it ourselves and if we ever feel lost it is totally within reason to request progressive taxi. Also she didn't want to land there, yall threw her into this.
Whats 'progressive taxi'?
@@markcardwell when you request taxi instructions from the ground controller. So if you’re trying to go to a particular part of the airport, you can request a controller to give you directions on the ground. “ Turn left here at this taxiway or turn right here on this taxiway. “ etc
The captioning is wrong. The ground controller said she shouldn't be taxiing "without INSTRUCTION." He didn't say she should have an instructor.
@@Pilot_Perspective86 they're not gonna hate you for doing that?
@@markcardwell no they’re not gonna hate you for that unless the controller is an asshole. You can request progressive taxi if you’re unfamiliar with an airport but it is highly advised as a pilot you should have an airport diagram handy and at least familiarize yourself with the airport that you’re flying to however, in some cases, when you land at an airport that you weren’t planning to land to, you can totally request a progressive taxi.
Despite the obvious 'Asian woman operating heavy machinery' jokes, I don't really see much wrong here. She was climbing up to 3500 on 180, and mistook a radio call for someone else. Unless I'm missing something here, it's not crime of the century
She sounds Hispanic not Asian.
The other radio traffic on the frequency would help. She was crossing into the face of pattern traffic who had to avoid her. The making her land thing was weird though.
Yeah, I'm at 2:26 and so far not liking the tone of the voice of ATC, at all. I can't help but wonder what's behind it.
@@exploreraa983Owner is MLS Aviation, Yorba Linda.
Were you being a misogynistic xenophobic nutcase? You don't sound like it, though.
@@exploreraa983seems to be based at Chino but owned by a company. Flew today. What is the date for this atc recording?
I found the same thing reported by a similar channel, says actual date unknown.
Based on what we heard, she didn't seem to be a threat to "aviation safety", as described by ATC to the point where she had to be commanded to land where she didn't want to. Unless there was something that we missed, it seemed like heavy-handed overreach. She seemed to be a newer pilot, so maybe he could have worked w/her instead of forcing her to land?
Falcon field, which I'm assuming is her home base, seems to be where she wanted to go. Depending on precisely where she was relative to gateway, it may have been equally close, likely visible to her
Given that the first controller instruction contains the word 'immediately' that would imply some previous issue.
Holy hell, both of these controllers really overstepped their bounds here. They have zero authority to force someone to land. If she busted airspace, they can deviate her and issue headings out of the way--which they did, but that's about the extent of it. Dude didn't even tell her why she was an issue in the first place. They don't control the pilot nor the destination. Super, super out of line.
And to the snarky ass of a ground controller--have you never heard of progressive taxiing? Maybe offer that instead of being unnecessarily rude. Nobody is born with inherent knowledge of all taxi diagrams for every airport, and she was not even intending on landing at your field.
Of course, nothing will happen to the controllers because they're a bunch of Serco contract jagoffs at Gateway. Do better or find a new line of work.
So effing true! FAA controllers are WAY nicer and cooler than contract controllers!! I did the majority of my training at KIWA and they are the absolut worst… and im not the only one who thinks that haha.
Listen to what the ground controller says again... (don't read the captions).
Missing a ton of information on what happened here. With that being said, ATC did a terrible job all around. 172s cant exactly expedite a climb, especially with a newer pilot at the controls and in Arizona where the DA was probably quite high. Obviously they were trying to et the Cessna clear of landing traffic, and they decided a turn and expedited climb was the best option? ATC also doesn't get to tell you that you must land somewhere, they can tell you to leave their airspace, but thats it. Telling the pilot they are "going to the FBO" at an airport they obviously dont know, then handing them over to ground without passing on any of that information to the ground controller, who then tells them they shouldn't be taxiing at an airport they are unfamiliar with (which they were 'forced' to land at) without an instructor on board is pure bullshit. Obviously the private pilot was struggling, especially with the non-standard bullshit ATC decided to make up on the fly, but ATC should have been more interested in helping than criticizing. I'd hate to have an emergency in their airspace because they would end up being more of a hindrance than help.
controller had zero right or authority to command an aircraft to land based on his minimal flight experience
I think this is fake. If real, was shocking. Controllers are not using proper pilot/controller glossary. The Mesa controllers And stressing out an obviously stressed out, incompetent pilot is the last thing any controller will do. If there is a special situation, I'd suspect the supervisor would jump on the panel.
@@Diesel0821 comments above seem to indicate it's a known sitiuation from several years ago, and. imply thath this (non faa, contract controller) faced repercussions.
Where were these controllers on 9/11? Shouldn’t be taxiing around without an instructor at an unfamiliar airport? WTF? You forced her to land!
i mean, they probably weren't working then. The amount of controllers that were around on 9/11 and are still working today is probably in the minority
of course is Mesa Gateway airport... I did a flight in 4:30 in the morning and called them Mesa Ground, they got so mad and said "we are not mesa ground, the name is Gateway"
Seems like someone is in for attitude adjustment at MESA Gateway Tower..
I’ve had that happen too. Not the most friendly airport in the world.
Ground is saying that it's dangerous for a private pilot to taxi on an unfamiliar airport without an instructor? 😆 That's ridiculous.
Progressive taxi has left the chat, wtf?
I thought they would offer that right away but instead they just gave complicated taxi instructions to a shaken pilot W t f .
They said “instruction”.
"without an instruction". listen closely
This was over 10 years ago and the tower controller faced repercussions. Even the almighty IWA tower learned they can’t impound airplanes.
Is there an article or some type of publication that explains what happened? I'm really curious because everything the controller had the pilot do was quite confusing.
Can you provide some identifying information so that somebody could verify your comment?
The ATC did not face repercussions
@neilkurzman4907 Not op, but if you look at the latest flights for N738XD, it hasn't left California in nearly two months, I don't think this audio is new
@@noahcooperman271 Not op, but if you look at the latest flights for N738XD, it hasn't left California in nearly two months, I don't think this audio is new
Something's amiss here, did anything happen before the clip started? I wasn't aware a controller could force you to land, or force you to hire an instructor to fly out of an airport (and the ground controller's comment was strange too). Don't flame me, but there was a hint of misogyny in some of this (without knowing the full context).
Sounds like the controller is on a power trip. This is way outside of his authority. Really would like to know how this started. An ATC controller is NOT synonymous with law enforcement officer.
I saw another version of this with more of the surrounding traffic. She was crossing the pattern into the face of pattern traffic which had to avoid her. Everything else that followed was super weird though.
@@MeerkatADVshe was nowhere near the pattern.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 How do you know? We don't have her location info. the YT vid puts her on a sat view, but we have no way of knowing if it's cottect.
From what i see here, she's Aviating, Navigating and Communicating decently. They pushed her to land and like a good student she followed instructions. I wonder who's gonna pick up the tab on the FBO fees and landing fees.
She wasn’t a student. She said she has a private pilot license
I wonder what led up to that to the point where the audio started.
The pilot seems to understand the instructions and to cooperate. Doesn't appear to be confused - she read back the phone number with no issues.
Both these controllers on the other hand have a somewhat bad vibe, I can't explain this. Like very corrupt cops in a bad TV series. The Tower remembered to give her taxiing instruction after how much time??? And then blamed it on her?? That alone sounds like entrapment.
Without any kind of context (dislike!) this seems like an awful situation for the pilot. Her only problem is not being assertive.
Doesn't appear to be confused?? I think her situational awareness is horrible and her taxiing was a mess, not following instructions
@@isaska100 if only there were any instructions provided..
@@isaska100After being berated by the tower controller and given an unexpected "order" to land at an airport that she may not have planned to land at in the first place, there's no reason to be surprised that she was not familiar where things were on the ground there. And being rattled at that point would not be surprising either, especially if she was a relatively new pilot.
the video starts with ATC already giving her a hard time. I think this controller has forgotten ATC EXISTS to HELP pilots, not act like a tyrants of the skies.
Pilot Deviation??? Pilot Deviation??? Sounds more like Controller Deviation to me. Forcing a pilot to land at an airport they don't want to land at? Is that even legal/permissible? Best guess is this controller FAILED to spend a few minutes hugging his cat before he walked out the door. A day can only go downhill from there.
Does anyone know how old this recording is? Lately I've seen plenty of channels posting 10 years old audios without any date stamp or context...
Apparently from another comment, this recording is over ten years old, so yeah.
from registration info-This 172 looks as if it was sold in 2013, by a mesa company. so predates that sale.
We're not getting the whole picture here. What caused ATC to give the pilot an immediate climb instruction. We need a good 5 minutes of ATC / Pilot communications before this incident occurred. Was the pilot lost, wrong frequency or just incompetent? We just don't know. She mentioned wanting to return to Falcon Field ( airport ) which is about 5-6 nm north of Gateway so I assume that's where her flight started.
I am just a private pilot single engine been flying over 20 yrs but I was not aware that ATC could order me to land at a airport. I can understand if busted a TFR at a military airfield or air space . but not a civilian airport . but you never stop learning in aviation and I learned something new from this video
ATC can NOT command you to land. They can suggest it, but this guy’s tone leaves no doubt that he means it as mandatory.
Most people have a tendency to do what they’re told, even if they’re not sure they have to.
Falcon field would have been less confusing than Gateway. If ATC is concerned about the competency of the pilot, directing her to a 3 runway airport that has airline traffic, two flight schools and has a puzzle for taxiways does not make sense. The airspace bwn KPHX KFFZ KCHD and KIWA is not for the faint of heart either.
totally the controllers fault, controller could have vectored her out of the area and sent her on her way to the airport that she was intending to go to, but instead he gets her to land at an unfamiliar airport and then they have the nerve to tell her that she shouldn't be taxing around at an unfamiliar airport without an instructor on board. Now an instructor has to be flown over to that airport to fly with her back to the originally intended airport. This shows me a total lack of experience on the part of the controller.
I always like how tower numbers are bleeped out even though they are public.
Maybe to reduce spam
She asked to go back to her airport, they said no, made her land where she didn’t want, and then got mad at her for taxiing without an instructor.
Amateur hour in the control tower.
Why does this audio sound like something AI generated? None of what happened here makes any real sense here.
This recording originated at least as far back as 2012. Whether AI had the capability to fabricate something like this that early, I don't know.
She did nothing wrong. This was ATC ego tripping.
I would have told ground to give me Progressive Taxi because I’m at an unfamiliar airport and I left my instructor at home.
I gave progressive taxi instructions all the time. It's no big deal!
The captions are wrong. He said instruction not instructor.
LOL 3:00 - ATC 'police' - yea no, that aint happening - I would have turned around and gone back up.
I know you would want too but remember the hazardous attitudes and that if you did nothing wrong, you shouldn’t feel bad about it AFTER THE FACT.
@@robburgundy9539 this should have been a simple phone call after the cessna got down in the ground at the destination
@@ghostrider-be9ek i agree 100%
OK... what are we missing? Seemed like a reasonable reaction time from XD. Hard to tell how much time elapsed between the call and the climb since the track was sped up.
we just don't have to info to assess. She may not have been climbing beyond 3300' given that atc called traffic at that level to a different landing airplane.
Her flight path was taking her towards Falcon, but she's on Gateway's frequency. It's not on Guard because she's hearing traffic calls meant for other aircraft. It sounds like she was on the wrong frequency and about to bust into Falcon's airspace, which is below 3400'. No telling what she was doing before, though the flight path looks like it would take her through the Sky Harbor Class B. I've flown through there quite a bit and if you're not wired tight with you nav and comms, it's really, really easy to bust airspace.
“You’ve proven yourself a risk to aviation safety” ouch.
"Expedite climb immediately"
"Okay, I've got 'er cranked up to 300 FPM"
That Ground controller is insane...so you need to bring an instructor with you every time you fly to a new airport?
Honestly, I’ve heard controllers let a LOT of pilots exhibiting concerning behavior go a long time and never call out their danger to safety, when they should have. I am curious…had this not been a woman with an accent, but ole Charlie-from-hangar-3’s daughter up there, or ole Charlie himself at an advanced age - would the same instructions been given? Not that he’s picking on her, but rather not being as rightly cautious with other non compliant or confused pilots. A question every controller should ask himself. I applaud the concern here. So much better safe than sorry. You can only wonder what went on prior to this clip.
🙄
yesm, but this pilot was a woman with an Asian accent.... that makes it 10x worse.... try and convince me that's not what this was.
Honestly thinking the same thing
@@exploreraa983Have a go with ATC recordings for male pilots. You'll hear for yourself how much more aggressive controllers are with males.
Don't ask the industry to wear gloves with women, but rather encourage the women to become great aviators, able to handle rough situations.
If an engine is going to fail, is not going to say "Oh, there's a female pilot so I will not flame out".
On a stall, the plane won't say "Oh, no, there's a female pilot, I better not stall"
So, if women want to fly but can handle some snarky remarks from some random ATC, how will they handle critical life threatening emergencies?
@@andreea007nobody says those things. I think you need to take a step back and look at this thing with more of an open mind.
Something ugly happened in the 5 minutes before this tape. And I just read this happened 10 years ago? And the controller was in trouble? Was he sent to that tower in the Bay area?
Unless there was something else before the clip started - hard to see what the fuss was about. I have never heard a controller being able to make a licensed pilot land their aircraft.
There was. This starts where she goes from just bumbling to dangerous. "Expedite climb immediately and turn" is a clue that things are getting a little too unpredictable.
@@exploreraa983 - He seemed calm enough and apologetic. It's not his emotions on display, it's her incompetence.
@@GWNorth-db8vnno, he (his voice) sounds like a raging bull, but we don't know why. BUT it's really odd that ground then also pounces on her. I really want to know what happened here
@@angelinasouren - No, I'm not buying that. You're hearing what you want to hear.
@@GWNorth-db8vn her incompetence? Like what?
It seems to me that this video and audio only confers the confusion after an incident. What were the events leading up to this? I assume her path conflicted with the other plane on final, but how did she end up there?
Racist controller on a power trip. Hope she files complaints from top to bottom on him. At the minimum he violated her civil rights.
He just doesn't want to fool with an inexperienced pilot
She could have landed and wait until midnight, when the tower is closed, and then take off.
I don't know what she did that pissed off the controllers, but they have NO authority to force her to land.
She could have just informed the tower that she is turning north and proceeded out of their Airport Traffic Area, the area that tower controllers have control.
What is up with the audio? It sounds unreal.
True... No date, no context, trimmed to leave out part of the interaction, incorrect transcript.
no background on the incident... so what was the dangerous behavior that allows a controller forcing someone to land at a different airport?
I feel like we got half the story here. I don't know what led up to this.
This entire episode was bizarre. They expected an expedited climb in a C172. They forced her to land, at an airport she clearly wasn't familiar with. Once she was on the ground safely, they didn't explain where she was supposed to go. Yes, she did proceed to taxi after leaving the runway, without contacting ground and getting instructions. That's on her. I bet she was never at an airport with a separate frequency for ground traffic, or perhaps only once. Regardless, they still didn't offer her progressive instructions for taxiing. Just a poor job all around. She must have done something to really anger them, before this video started. Also, it is clear that she is still learning English.
I think k before the recording started she flew through the surface and first shelf of phoenix bravo. Looks like it from the line/map/track.
Where can I find more information about this flight?
that was painful to listen to
ATC needs to be ashamed of themselves.
ATC can't force you to land. "Unable" and keep it pushing.
FWIW, without any contacts the ATC controller sounds like an arrogant sob, who really didn't offer any help or assistance before throwing his weight around. And then the comments from the controllers mate on the ground, were a joke. Unless there was some kind of imminent emergency or danger that's not apparent in this video, I can't help feel sorry for that pilot. This comes across as really poor form, from ATC.
What the actual fuck happened here? Why the hell were they giving this lady such a hard time?
I know of no regulation that says a controller can force a pilot to go to and land at a specific airport. If I’m intercepted sure. This dude at ATC? Not that I can think of.
Lol a controller can’t force you to land😅
What was her sin to cause this action from ATC?
I think Possible pilot deviation is the worst thing you can hear on the radio.. this lady having not much experience I Can imagine how those words made her extremely nervous possibly making the situation worse.. should've just made her land and explained her the situation once on the ground.
FYI, this incident was already being discussed on the Pilots of America forum as of Sept. 19, 2012.
Where did the flight-track data come from? Do FlightAware records go back that far?
BS. It was unnecessary extreme use of force I'd be madder than a peeed on chicken somebody's going pay for this
She could have told ATC to go to hell
Did she have to pay for a instructor pilot to fly back with her to Falcon? 😮
Is this setup to get view on CZcams? Sounds like it's on a simulator? Vatsim?
I wonder if she was having a medical event? Carbon Monoxide poisoning?
Did ATC even consider this?
Whenever I flew a 172, I'd need 2+ minutes to gain 1000'.
Those controllers need to be disciplined
Seriously, do they just let you buy pilot licenses at the grocery store in the US?
Someone like this would never pass their check ride in the EU.
why ? based on what ? What did you hear that we didn't ? Can you point out exactly what it is she did wrong ?
Is this recorded from transcript? It sounds fake.
There are several class D airports right there side by side and then under the umbrella of the Bravo, but Falcon field is just North of Gateway and I probably just would have let her land at her home airport cause probably less liability. If you look at sectional chart it is the Delta just North of Gateway.
she needs to be grounded ASAP and not allowed in the air. She needs to figure this out, and being forced to land should emphasize it
Ok...but her airport was of equal length away...so you land a pilot that you feel is not competent at an unfamiliar airport, not knowing weather, NOTAMS, taxi diagrams, ect?? Plus and ATC controller can't force you to land at any airport....they can keep you on the ground, and they can keep you out of " their" airport..unless you declare emergency, but not make you land. Not defending her, just saying call her home airport tower and let them know what happened then when she lands there they can handle it. I go in and out of many airports and its hard at some even when prepared....
@@smudent2010
@@smudent2010 what makes you come to this conclusion? This audio does not give us the context that leads up to ATC getting super pissed. She was climbing as instructed. She may have low flying hours and being in unfamiliar airspace/airport, a little direction goes a long way.
@@chefruggy8022She triggered a conflict with other traffic and she was instructed to expedite climb in order to avoid a midair crash. ATC was being busy with keeping her and the occupants of the other aircraft alive. The situation didn't allow for social politeness...
@@andreea007If ATC is counting on a C172 to expedite a climb in order to keep everyone safe, then ATC already screwed the pooch! On a hot afternoon that plane has a climb rate of about 300 feet per minute.
Not to mention, according to the animation she wasn’t yet in gateway’s airspace. The animation could be of, but if it’s correct she should have just told them “cancel flight following” and changed frequencies.
I would have told the controller to f off and flew home and call him. is that even legal what they did?
She is very close to the airport and the approach path, which I guess may be what preceded this. And she sounds like she is not hearing all the radio clearly Otherwise the controller sounds out of line.
I’ve always thought it was a mistake to use the name ‘controller’ I suspect it gets to some of their egos.
The controllers could of done better job handling this situation! Instead of attacking knowledge of pilot they should have offered a positive form of help to put the pilot at ease. I have heard worse than this situation and had resulted in a positive ending for both the pilot and controllers.
That atc attitude is not acceptable
Boy, there needs to be A LOT of background context & further info as to what happened (didn’t happen) here!
IWA has weird VFR arrival procedures so my guess is that she wasn’t aware and interfered with a jet in the pattern at 3100. Typically they just tell people to get out of their airspace so this must have been a big fuckup.
There's something strange and fishy about this video
They can barely drive. Its no shock they dont fly well either 😂
Thats what I imagine the person who ate that bat in Wuhan was like, clueless
No one seems to state when this incident occurred, but all the videos with the audio reference liveatc which would absolutely have a date/time for the recording.... so what's the deal here?
This incident was being discussed online as early as 2012.
Not sure where was the deviation here or why the controller was pissed, asked her to climb and turn right heading 180 and she did, didnt do it at the rate he wishes but that's not considered a deviation, any pilot can say unable to comply and thats it, i really dont get it, if it was me i would have given this controller a piece of ma mind.
too be honest I think the pilots accent may have influenced his decision
ATC is way out of line and I hope they get investigated.
When did this flight happen? I can’t find anything on flight aware or flight radar and there are some major holes in the general ongoings of these transmissions? What did she do that was so egregious that the tower controller thought he had the authority to “force” her to land? Even if she full blown violated the class C they still wouldn’t “not allow” her to return to falcon field. Also interesting point of note, that tail number is registered to a company in CA and I can’t find how it got to AZ
Nvm. She went blasting through the Phoenix Sky Harbor bravo. Wasn’t on frequency with anyone and Mesa Gateway was the first tower to get her on frequency.
Not being a pilot; I’m trying to figure what she did in the first place that started all of this. There was no intro as per usual.
Nothing. With what we got in this video wrong she did nothing wrong. Most people are confused about whats happened here.
Someone commented that there's another video providing more recording time. They say she placed herself in front of traffic in pattern and thankfully the other aircraft was able to avoid her in time, thus avoiding a tragedy.
This would explain ATC's decision. She was obviously shaken by the experience and landing asap would avoid further potential incidents.
@@andreea007 I searched and searched but did not find such a video. Do you have a link? What someone said means absolutely nothing.
@@jake_ I haven't looked for it yet. But I've realized that this audio also provides similar information. The problem is that the uploader doesn't show the other traffic. It just shows her plane. But we do hear communication with another aircraft so it's obvious that she wasn't alone in the airspace.
ATC can’t force a pilot to land wtf
Can atc even 'force' you to land? Could i just say, 'unable, unfamiliar with the airport'?😅
Missing context and real time altitudes, it sounds for all the world like the controller is just being an a-hole, but i am confident this is not the case.
Not a pilot. Can anyone explain what this pilot did wrong? She appeared to follow every instruction given to her by ATC? She also remained calm on the radio throughout.
We can't tell. Presumably she entered airspace-either the PHX bravo without a clearance-or a delta without establlishing two way rdaio comms, first. And it sounds as if she may have been interfering with trffic landing at gateway. But we don't have the needed info/context in this vid to make the call.
99 bottles of beer on the bus 🎉
Glad she followed his demands, but she didn’t have to.
So we get no context, they want an exported climb out of a 172 (good luck) and then they shake her up and force her to land at an unfamiliar airport and chastise her for not being familiar. If you’re that concerned why not give progressive taxi instructions?
I think there is some issue here that has nothing to do with flying. This controller oversteps his authority.
low talker forced to land.