“can you get a controller that will at least let us land this time?”
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2024
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Good that we know where the Triton Museum is at
Gotta check it out now!😂
I'm actually on Alaska 876. We're still in the pattern.
LOL
🤣🤣🤣
Roger we copy your frustration. 😂
No, you don't. 🤣
Sounds like a couple’s fight 😂
I was waiting for a "Roger, Roger, what's your vector Victor?"
@@randyhanson837Don’t call me Shirley
That's crazy. If I was that Alaska pilot I'd be pissed too. Tower definitely was at fault for all of those go arounds. Clearing way too many departures and you have someone on a final... this isnt JFK with all of its runways, this is San Jose. I very VERY rarely would blame ATC for something but Tower was definitely wrong in this case.
Sounded like a few had to remind tower for their landing clearance too
Yah I'm not sure what was going on in that tower but it sounded like pure ATC chaos. Perhaps new and not used to a rush of traffic like this, maybe overtired who knows, I dunno but something definitely was wrong there and Tower needed to be replaced or something because a chaotic tower means lives could be lost.
DEI versity hires, yay! Thank Mayor Pete for his fearless leadership from a behind.
People forget that takeoff is optional. Landing is not...
You should copyright that.
True that!
Dude deserves to be pissed. The passengers have connecting flights yo get to, probably assume pilot is incompetent for 2 failed landings and such. To allow takeoffs that close in with a cleared landing is not acceptable.
no way, the pilots would have been telling the pax exactly how atc screwed up
@@ghostrider-be9ek meh maybe. The general pax wouldn't really understand. Even still, was this pilot maybe a little hot on the freq? Sure. But to the general population in the back, it's on the pilot messing it up.
@@cjames4739 its no 'meh' - the pax will understand fully when the crew mentions that ATC is leaving them insufficient space - its not rocket science, even though most pax barely have HS
Nobody is connecting threw San Jose😂
not to mention pilots in the us have a strict duty time limit to prevent fatigue-related mistakes from happening. every go around takes away from their ability to stick to that if say they're scheduled on additional flights that day.
They made him go around because he checked on with 'with you'...
Remember the other pilot that avoided all this bs simply by stating
''if you don't give us 31R, we'll declare an emergency now remove everyone from our way''
can you give the title of the video of that? I think they couldn't just do that without having actually minimum fuel or they would be in trouble themselves right?
@@jemand8462 czcams.com/video/-sQuHnrJu1I/video.html
@@jemand8462 AA Pilot Argues with JFK Air Traffic Control
@@jemand8462you’re right. They would get in trouble for using “min fuel” if they still had plenty.
Actually you use mayday for a fuel emergency
"Lucky number 3" 😂
That made me laugh - and possibly defused the situation a bit
I didn't expect this from San Jose... San Carlos or SFO at night maybe. Tower, Alaska 876 has a number for YOU to call. This reminds me of the Lufty pilot of a 747 at SFO a couple of months ago who had to go around because the tower would not left him do an IFR approach AFTER he told them Lufthansa does not allow their pilots to land VFR after dark. This was an international flight and was running low on fuel.
Great comment
One runway makes it easier
@@Ndub1036 What makes you think a one runway operation makes it easier? It is not necessarily the number of runways that dictates traffic flow; it's the ground and tower controllers charged with moving all traffic smoothly. The busiest single runway airport in the world is San Diego International, formerly known as Lindbergh Field. However, earlier this year during the transition from reverse ops back to normal ops they gave an aircraft instructions to back taxi on the active runway while traffic was landing on the opposite end.
@@TheGospelQuartetParadise it’s easier to have delays, go arounds and issues when you go from two runways to one, as was seen here. It’s less likely to happen when runways aren’t closed that are usually in service. Not sure why that’s revolutionary to you.
@@TheGospelQuartetParadise you said you didn’t expect this from SJC. It’s easier for this to happen when you go down to single runway ops issues.
The pilot simply requested the tower to go around because the tower was not properly stabilized on his approaches.
Some may call the Alaska pilots “unprofessional”, others may say their frustration is understandable. Venting on the radio seems rather strange to me because you’re simply tying up the airwaves (perhaps unnecessarily) particularly in a rather busy environment. Best to check One’s emotions and simply ask for a number upon landing. Just my observation…
I agree.
A lot of the comments are saying the pilot handling radio communications is unprofessional. If he is told that they are clear to land by approach but the tower controllers are clearing takeoffs in front of him, that says that is very poor communication between approach control and tower control.
Shut up. 7:46 was totally unwarranted. No sympathy.
Why would approach tell them they were cleared to land?
@@captaindunsel2806 exactly; in other countries cleared to land is the last instruction, only given when the runway is cleared and will not be occupied or moved on until the one that is cleared to land actually lands. Cannot figure why the US gives that clearance when other movement will occur in the interim.
@@swiftadventurerbecause in the us they run arrivals and departures a lot tighter and use anticipated separation. This is used to take away landing clearances being issued when the arrival is almost or already over the threshold. The rule in the us is in layman terms you can only have one set of wheels on the runways at a time.
Here is a controller (retired) perspective.
One runway operations at a busy airport are nearly impossible without delays. With no landing traffic spacing is 2.5 miles in visual conditions, 3 miles in IFR. This is not enough room or time to get a departure into position and clear the runway before the next arrival. So literally twice the spacing is required, realistically 6-10 miles. So you have 25 arrivals scheduled in the next hour and that’s the capacity for the runway without departures, but you have 10 departures all waiting. Approach controller will make gaps when he can, and tower will use those gaps. But there is a factor that the controller can’t control, and that is the pilots.
St
1st scenario arrival controller builds in 7 miles to get a departure out, both arrivals are assigned a speed which can only be given to the outer marker. Pilot in front needs to do 120 kts and pilot behind is doing 150 kts. That 7 miles which compresses naturally even at the same speed suddenly becomes 4.5 and the second arrival has to go around.
2nd scenario arrivals maintain separation but departure, who should have ample time to get on and our decides to take his time and even though the controller is giving him calls like “cleared for immediate take off” he won’t be rushed and second guy goes around.
3rd scenario. Arrival controller and tower controller has had enough of this and decides the best way to handle this is 12 miles between arrivals. Then arrival capacity drops in half and suddenly planes are holding and diverting, but hey those first few guys got in ok, so as long as you were one of them it’s ok.
"Copy your frustration" and "Copy that, lucky number 3" is one of the funniest shits I've heard
🤣🤣
THAT WAS CHAOS...easy to follow chaos...and 1 screwed up ATC! 😡
I get the frustration. Sounds like a very busy night with single runway ops, NorCal squeezing them in tight and tower just running out of time. Two go arounds are frustrating and they gave him all the space he needed to make the third. There is not much margin in the system for runway closures these days.
Pity that we can't hear the tower controller
What year is this? I hear Redwood and Alaska same freq. Redwood is Virgin America, which is now part of Alaska.
All you have to do is declare an emergency and you get to land. Possible controller deviation.I'll have a number for you when you're ready to copy. Ha ha ha.😅
Two suggestions! One, you REALLY have to include the date of one the icident occured! People in hear spouting off about Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion when this incident happened nearly a decade ago!
Second, I think putting up graphics of the approach, the runway, etc would be more helpful than a static image of an unrelated location
People spouting off about DEI are doing it because it's an election year and DEI, "wokeness" and drag queens are the only subjects they can get their heads around. They should compare America's recent airline safety statistics with those of the glorious mid-60s, when there were far fewer planes and only White men were ever hired to fly them.
Reminiscent of SFO "come on this is twice you guys gotta do better"
I remember Laguardia yelling at me when I was in a Bonanza and he ordered a 737 behind me to go around because I was “too slow.” The controlled said, “I just had to send the plane behind you around because you couldn’t get off my runway.” I sternly replied with, “With a clearance isn’t it my runway sir?” He said nothing in reply. Of course this was before the days of LiveATC and FlightAware, but I never understood passing clearances to multiple aircraft for the same runway as they do. Efficiency at the risk of safety is never a good call IMO. If a runway is clear, a clearance should be given. Pilots should remember those magical words “unable” and that it is a co-op experience with ATC, not a unilateral one. We trust in them having the best picture, but at the end of the day we are the PIC.
I love it when the controllers think they can make the decisions for pilots on how to fly/taxi their planes. My favorite thing to teach students is the word "unable" for when ATC give an instruction that the pilot doesn't feel is safe. The last time I checked 91.3 still says the pilot in command is responsible for all aspects of the flight - and doesn't relinquish responsibility to ATC.
Easy solution. Don’t fly a Bonanza into a major airport. You are WAY too slow on a busy arrival sequence.
@@MM-gw3vx spoken just like a crybaby NATCA member.
Pilots get really pissed having to go around endlessly because a controller can't space properly.
Redwood? That was Virgin America! How old is this?
Could be worse Eastern Airlines or Mowhawk.......
Was thinking the same thing!
That's it? I was waiting for number 4.
Wasn’t a fan of the “no you don’t”. Tower was clearly very busy. I give NorCal credit, this time, for their professional attitudes.
Ehhhh I don’t agree with that. If he’s sending people around like this then he does not need to be in that tower.
Sounds to me like a tower that’s accustomed to an operation where they depart off one runway and land on the other. Now that they’re using only a single runway for a while, well…🤷🏼♂️…seems like there might be a lot more go-arounds in their future. Still, the pilot should chill the feck out.
Nah, the pilot is trying to get his plane down safely, someone else is jeopardising that. Planes in the air have priority over planes on the ground, planes on the ground can’t fall out of the sky because they ran out of fuel.
@@CoffeeMatt10 Oh? Did they mention having fuel issues? Maybe I missed it. The problem here is that they weren’t accorded pseudo-priority to land after having gone around the first time, which is what we do in our unit.
Redwood? Isn’t that the call sign of Virgin America? How old is this incident?
There were a ton of captioning errors -- did a person or AI do the subtitles?
I liked "climb and 18" for "climb and maintain".
Pilot: Possible ATC deviation, I have a number for you to call when ready to copy.
Why does this stuff always happen in the Bay Area
Good question!
I’d be getting a copy of the audio to all the passengers who would all be wondering why their plane was circling endlessly. Why the6 missed their connections and why the receivers have been stood around waiting unnecessarily. Clearly all the other pilot were frustrated as well. Maybe the atc was inexperienced- he certainly speaks slowly.
Its not bad if an ATC speaks slowly, I'd rather them speak slowly and clearly than trying to rattle off clearances during rush hour at LAX or something and no pilot understands them
Little excessive on the approach controller
How old is this recording? Redwood hasn't been around for 6 years.
The real ones look for date of recording. Lot of people being like "muh DEI!", same people not paying attention to "Redwood"
After Go around #2, I would have called company and diverted to Oakland. The company can then file a complaint with the FAA for wasted fuel and time!
I speak from experience even flying a jumbo jet.If you have to go around the chances of you going around again of just tripled. Why is that. I'm trying to put you in a hole that you just can't put in
Sounds to me like they have double the traffic because one runways down. I bet ATC there barely has time to take a sip of coffee the whole shift.
I hear Starbucks is hiring. He can sip coffee all day long.
More and more pressure. Tower and ground missing info and landing and takeoffs with crossing active runway a accident thats going to happen
what a mess. Is flying in the US still safe?
No
As a passenger I would be a little concerned that my pilot was getting so worked up. Is he still flying the plane or in his frustration skipped the "fly, navigate" and become too focused on "communicate"?
Anyone in his shoes would be ticked off. What are you, a robot?
@@bjr4567 Not a robot, but possibly someone with greater expectation of emotional control in someone responsible for hundreds of lifes than you?
@@TexasVernon If he threw a ten amp fuse, you might have a point. But he didn't. He reacted the way any pilot facing that kind of *repeated* screw up would. Interesting how you overlooked that it was the controller who was putting his passengers in jeopardy, and not the skipper.
Unless something unusual was going on in the cockpit, the pilot handling the radio communication is NOT the pilot doing the actual flying… he is monitoring.
It’s very understandable. I’ve been situations similar: a long day, hungry and that nonsense. Btw have you ever gotten upset at your job?
I am not a pilot but as a traveler many times through the torture chamber of horrors the San Jose Mineta airport is, I can verify it is only exceeded in its crapulence by LAX. Long term parking once moved my car for 'construction' work. I thought it was stolen. There were no signs and the arrogance of the people there is astounding and I felt like the Steve martin character in 'Plane, Trains and Automobiles'. The staff are all rude and the TSA are all Nazi wannabees. No trams or moving sidewalk ways but they will let you depart from a gate a mile away from baggage and then hold your bags for ransom if you don't get them soon enough. I can't wait until some of these young turks get a few old age joint replacements and find out that we all can't run like OJ. And the traffic design is horrible and the departure proctors are rude too. F'em all. I avoid it at all costs. SF, OAK or MRY for me if I can help it. Or I'll just drive if it is less than 4 hours.
Must've happened over five years ago. Virgin America aka "Redwood" has long since been absorbed into Alaska Airlines.
forgot who redwood was yeah good ole virgin america its been a while lol was thinking it was a heli or something
That's what I was bout to say
@@Newberntrains glad I was able to jog old memories. As with anything associated The Virgin Group, a chance to slip in a double entendre is never missed. "Redwood" is a great homage to the redwood trees of Northern California where Virgin America was based. On the other hand, once someone is no longer a virgin, the partner will have.....
In Germany we would say: "Echt jetzt?" 😄
Virgin (Redwood) has been gone for 6 years, how old is this?
Too many richie riches buy their toys. It is setting up the ground for a disaster. We will see one soon.
Not real happy with the attitude of that AS pilot. Yes, go-arounds should always be the exception but SJC is running a single runway operation and for many of the controllers, the flow is going to take some getting used to. Is it possible the local controller was being a little too "brave" with his decisions to try to sneak departures in amongst the many arrivals at the time, sure. But for the AS pilot to belittle the performance of the controller to his peers was not only not professional, it smacked of someone whose own competence could be called into question by even making the comments to begin with.
Yup - I got the same feeling. Maybe the red mist was up there, as he had to ask for repeat calls a couple times. Pretty unprofessional to ask for a different controller, IMHO.
One screws their job causing trouble to others, one bears the shame, not hides behind "oh, oh, he's unprofessional".
7:46 was totally unwarranted.
If you’re sent around once, that happens, but on the second try, all efforts should be made by the controller to get that airplane on the ground. I’d be asking for a different controller too. And I couldn’t care less about the controllers’ sorry little feelings. 😢 cry me a river.
I’d be livid too if you made me go around TWICE because you’re sending departures out with improper spacing. Once I get but how do you not learn the second time and send a crew around AGAIN for the exact same thing? SJC has been single runway for awhile now. This should be figured out.
Anyone would think that that AS captain paid for the fuel! A little patience and professionalism go a long way.
You mean the fuel that he’s running g out of having to do multiple go around? It’s the cost of the fuel, it’s the capacity of the fuel and the fact that if he runs out, he’s now an emergency. Planes on the ground don’t run out of fuel, they can wait until the planes in the air are down safely.
@@CoffeeMatt10 I’m not arguing that he was eating into his contingency fuel, but it was the churlish, offensive nature of his comms that lacked professionalism.
All he had to say to the APP controller was that he was approaching minimum fuel and that for the third attempt he would ask that all departures be held until he lands.
Instead, he (almost hysterically) jumped into the radio - when he was clearly PF - and demanded a change of controller!!
Petulant children come to mind.
The captain had about as much emotional control as a toddler with severe behavioral issues. If anything he made the situation far less safe by not being able to keep his composure together; thus, creating a rushed and uncomfortable flight deck for the co-pilot. Folks like this need to throw in the towel and let the adults run things, but unfortunately this career attracts a ton of these types.
Adults? In the tower? Haha.
3 go arounds due to poor separation? I’d be pissed off as well.
If he threw a ten amp fuse, you might have a point. But he didn't. He reacted the way any pilot facing that kind of *repeated* screw up would. You do realize it was the controller who was putting his passengers in jeopardy and not the skipper, right?
@@MikeyCh09 2 go arounds
@@bjr4567 Nah, he lost his cool and threw a fit on the radio. I'm also an airline captain and I've had worse things happen. Reacting like a child isn't keeping things safe. Take care of it via the proper channels at the completion of the flight instead of distracting yourself with emotion is how a professional reacts.
WTF!
Some controllers are incompetent and are not ready for busy traffic.
Just do your damn job and fly the airplane. Don’t fight with the controllers in the air and be belligerent. We’ve ALL had delays and go-arounds and had to deal with them. But you DONT argue with the controllers in the air like that …. That’s going to lead to more frustration on all sides. With that attitude and anger level you’re in no state of mind to safely fly a jet. - and no, not a couch bound flight sim pilot…. 12,000 hr ATP/ CFI/ CFII/MEI multiple jet types.
That’s it? An upset pilot? Plus it’s years old. Some of these posters must really need clicks because many of these ATC videos aren’t even worth posting.
Thanks for your opinion,sir..but what exactly did you expect from this video?
As a 30 year FAA controller, level 10-12, I can tell you that standards were absolutely lowered to improve diversity. They created a new base level for incompetence. In other words, “once lowered to improve diversity numbers, they stayed low for everyone.” I’m embarrassed by what has happened to my profession.
DEI is going to get people killed
Aviation safety has no room for diversity, only the best most competent people should be at the helm
Quiet you old racist.
Nah, nah, nah, this is my career field now too, bud, I ain't gonna let you get away with that bullshit
I'm happy to be fixing what y'all ruined. Diversity is better for everyone and your inability to separate diversity from incompetence makes me think you were also incompetent at separating airplanes.
Hope you're retired, Clint! Cause you sound like a...well....never mind
This incident happened a long time ago, before DEI.
California controllers seem to be terrible. I know it's busy but it's not that crazy busy. Planes on the ground can wait.
"Doucheflight 876 is with you"
Does no good to spout off at controllers. Doesn’t help, doesn’t fix the issue, just makes you look like a tool. Just fly the plane, son.
it actually did seem to help as they stopped all departures until they landed.
@@jemand8462 Probably because they figured this crew was a danger to their passengers and other traffic with their attitudes and needed to GTF outta their airspace quick!
@@yellowrose0910 I don’t think so. For example they didn’t want to accept a short base either which to me sounds like a reasonable request to ensure safety . And they probably also had low fuel in mind without being able to declare an emergency yet, which to me also seems like a good way of avoiding a difficult situation instead of just accepting bad controlling risking to go around a third time and possibly get into a dangerous situation without any reason
The controllers need to stop clearing aircraft for takeoff when you have a flight on final about to land. VASAviation had the better version with the full tower audio. They were within 3 miles when at least one of the aircraft was cleared to takeoff.
@@MeerkatADVThanks for the Intel I'll check that out 👍🏾
Endangering people, but hey, copy your frustration
Unacceptable comms from the FO.
pretty sure that was the captain
Rationalizing a greater tolerance for incompetence. Check.
@@bjr4567 - negative. The incompetence falls on both the tower and the flight crew. It should have NEVER COME TO 2 go-arounds. The petulant tantrum thrown by the FO (pilot monitoring) smacks of unprofessionalism and a highly emotive, negatively-effective flight crew. Unacceptable comms, for this very reason.
EDIT: I originally said 3 go-arounds. There were actually 2 go-arounds, with one approach clearance resulting in an arrival. My apologies.
@@arctain1 - negative. There was no incompetence from the flight deck, only an understandable reaction to it.
@@arctain1 Why are people saying 3 go-arounds? It was 2. TWO!!!
Losing one's cool is not conducive to a safe operation. An obvious underpinning of good airmanship is the opposite.
Very cringy
Sounds like a rookie FO on the radio. Probably one of those new breed of "fast track" ATP types that go from a 172 to a regional jet for a year and then to a major (or Alaska). You get paid by the minute, so enjoy the extra cash. If they were low on fuel, he should have said so. My generation of Military/Airline pilots never sounded like morons on the radio. If they crashed, that guys attitude on the radio would forever be played back for all to hear.
BC
4 decades of flying heavy jets.
Sure sounded to me like that was the captain chiming in on the radio. I’ve flown with enough lunatics with all that glorious experience that act like children when things don’t go exactly right.
sure it was the captain and to be fair, he got what he wanted.
It was obviously the older captain spouting off
@@kineticgames293 He's not spouting off. He's vocalizing what any rational person would be thinking.
@@bjr4567 He compromised the safety of that flight. The anger and stress in that cockpit was not allowing him or the FO to focus on flying the aircraft and listening to atc instructions.
What a dirt bag Pilot. It is all about him I guess.
bullshit, they cleared an aircraft to turn onto the runway and take off while he was 3 miles out. TWICE.
@@MeerkatADVYa, it was a tight call and the takeoff traffic didn’t takeoff without delay, and the controller was trying to fit in a lot of traffic onto a single runway, so ASA cops an attitude like it’s all about him, belittling the controller. Poor baby. Must be nice to never have made a mistake. Grow up.
@@glenwoodriverresidentsgrou136 Stop making excuses for repeated screw ups. It's more that the standards have plummeted, as well as any expectations for them.
More like it was about the safety of his plane and pax
Yes, standards do seem to have gone down. Just ask for a number, be polite, and deal with it off line. What does trashing the controller on the radio accomplish?
Unprofessional pilot.
The pilot is a jerk. I don't care how upset he was.
A jerk: anyone who speaks their mind in the face of incompetence.
Would you care if he was low on fuel and one more go-around would force him to declare emergency? Planes in the air have priority over planes on the ground. Giving take-off clearance to a plane when another plane is within 3 miles of the runway is a recipe for disaster. Get the plane in the air down safely first, then allow take-offs.
@@CoffeeMatt10 well then he would declare pan pan and he would have priority. Just because he's inconvenience doesn't mean anything to anyone.
@@bjr4567 that's what a phone call after he landed is for.
@@GeorgeRapko Soft peddling like you're doing is the reason standards everywhere are plummeting, and screw-ups are routinely being sugarcoated. The end result is increased endangerment of passengers, as well as unnecessary inconvenience (missed connecting flights, additional expense, bad PR, etc.)
Jeeeeezus! Is this as good as it gets? That's an accident waiting to happen!
As if the pilot never had any errors in his career… unless it’s an emergency… relax.
The tower isn’t the one going around multiple times, which means burning more fuel… the pilot is responsible for the safety of his aircraft, someone on the ground is jeopardising that safety, he’s every right to be frustrated.