The CHAOS Gods Are The GOOD GUYS?! Chaos Deep Dive | Warhammer 40k Lore.
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- Are the Chaos Gods actually the good guys? There's no doubt that the chaos gods do some pretty messed up stuff. but did you know that the Warhammer gods actually have a good side? it doesn't get talked about much, but these beings have been worshiped for millions of years by millions of different cultures. Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and Khorne, these are only the names we know them by, but they've gone by many names across time. if so many people worship them they cant be all bad right? lets take a closer look at the good elements of each of the chaos gods and try to figure out where everything went wrong.
If you are a warhammer 40k fan or a warhammer age of sigmar player, the lore of the gods is pretty similar, as chaos is trans universal.
I still plan on doing a comprehensive deep dive of the chaos gods, this was a short that was running long so i decided to flesh it out and turn it into a full length video. so expect a follow up in the future! there is SOOOO much to cover when it comes to these impossible creatures!
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Warhammer and Warhammer 40k are copywritten to Games Workshop.
All footage and art in this video are used for educational purposes only.
Opinions expressed in this video are solely those of Weshammer and in no way reflect the views or opinions of Games Workshop Ltd.
Artwork throughout this video is used for educational purposes. if you see your artwork and would like an art credit, message me. - Hry
Quick explanation. this was supposed to be an April fools video but it ran longer than I ment it too and went up April 2nd. The chaos gods are definitely not good guys. That being said joke or not. I did my best to take the video as seriously as possible and put fourth a compelling argument in their defense.
I had a good time with this and will make more videos like it. Although in the future, if it's not April fools I'll make it more clear it's a thought experiment. If it is April 1st, all bets are off.
Nah it’s perfect as it is, Honor for the Honor God, Glory for the Glory Throne!
So what's the flaw in your argument @WesHammer? Why are they "definitely not good guys"?
*Breathes sigh of relief* It was entertaining too!
*puts inquisitorial Rosette away* *whispers into ear piece* "call it off"
I think I want to destroy all Empire people I hate 40K And I kind of blame Be'lakor in Theory.
This video is a great example of how the Chaos gods can easily warp your mind.
Yes and don't they take pleasure in it, and one day the pleasure will be all there's, that's the good news :)
This is fairly obviously satire.
@@TheWorkmonkey1 says the chaos sympathizer
@@FLBLUE777 based
I'm a complete newbie to Warhammer but this video seems like 30 minutes of hearsay. But I'm slowly growing fan of the orks and necrons so it's a pot calling the kettle situation lol
Khorne: “There is no honor in killing children or the elderly.”
World Eaters: “I’m gonna pretend I didn’t hear that.”
*He cares not from where the blood flows.*
Also Kriegsmann in a siege
World Eater:"what's that Korne? I can't hear you over the sound of Angron scre"
ANGRON: RRRRAAAAAGGGHHHHHH
The World Eaters and Angron were absolutely not his first choice as his chosen legion I think.
@@ManlyManperorofDadkind-qv3ienot true. At least originally. Originally, he was the god of martial prowess. War, not mindless slaughter.
"Hey inquisitor? Yeah, I'd like to report a Heresy"
🤣🤣🤣
I'd like to see a Khornate warband that takes those who cannot fight them, trains them and arms them, then battles them in arenas. Refusing to kill an unarmed foe, but also refusing to allow the foe to submit until one of the two are dead
Here's the thing: he cares not from where the blood flows.
He has never preached mercy for the weak. He is Bloodshed and Murder.
Just ask his Bloodthirsters what he thinks of the weak and inferm as they drown worlds in blood.
there is no way in fuck any kind of human could stand against an unarmored marine.
@@kobold7466tell that to Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium
@@kobold7466 I would imagine if a khornate warband kidnaps you with the intent to train you, youre not going to stay a normal human during that process
true. actually would probably just round up all the civvies to use as slaves to maintain their ships and other menial task and ones that could be warriors they turn into space marines or enhance in some way (blood gorgons enhanced humans with daemon blood) and fight in an arena and if they win they get to join the warband.@@CaptainPrincess
My man has literally fallen for the ruse Chaos uses to gain followers. Fascinating to see this ACTUALLY take place.
I will never, ever again say "how the hell do they get tricked by four literal satans in lore, when it's so obvious that this is evil?" when I've just seen literal chaos corruption IRL, and they aren't even real in our world
ikr, in a real world perspective it's like blaming the Jews for what Hitler to them. lol
Yep, there is not a spec of good within them.
He's more than likely a "progressive".
In his failed attempt to destroy the chaos gods the emperor of man became a fifth one, laying claim to all the positive aspects of the others which is why they're evil
"Korne instructs his followers to show mercy to the weak" *citation needed*
If I remember correctly, Kyras, one of khorne's demon princes said that "the universe will burn, corrupt and innocent, weak and strong". I do believe that a demon prince is quite in line with his demon lord/god
Khorne- GIVE ME ALL THE BLOOD I DON'T CARE WHERE IT COMES FROM JUST KEEP IT FLOWING
Soy boy- Wow he's such an honorable God I'm sure he grants mercy to the people I identify with...
Yeah. I thought Khorne’s views were more alone the lines of “Kill literally everything gnyargh blood blood blood incoherent snarling”
I remember every Chaos God has a two side, one is evil and one is good. It depends of the emotions of the intelligent creatures in the universe.
For example, Slaanesh is the God of Sex Drug and Rock n' Roll.... I mean excess, in he's dark side, but the God of art and beauty in he's bright one.
Khorne is the God of Anger and killing in the evil side, while being the God of Martial Arts, Strategies, Discipline and Honor in the good side. Honor makes you show mercy to the weak.
Even though the good side of all 4 gods is hidden, there may be something left in its personality.
The Bloodletters of Khorne are known as the most discipline lesser daemons, they remains in formation under the bloodsoaked banner before the melee combat, which shows the discipline or maybe strategy aspect of khorne.
So there may be some case of Khorne shows his mercy upon the weak.
Though, the Chaos is chaotic, even the Chaos Gods are sometimes self-contradictive. And Warhammer lore is written by multiple authors, each of them have their own interpretation of it, causing many incoherence in the lore.
Also, from a unreliable translated source I've seen. Khorne will still take the Skull of the weak, but it is after the combat with the strong
Thank you Wes for showing a wonderfully accurate depiction of Chaos corruption/propaganda.
Well i think it's nice to get a break sometimes from the other 80-90% of the fandom that reflects imperial propaganda.
This is a perfect impression of someone who has clearly been tainted by the forces of chaos. Very Educational and informative brother, well done. Now, return to your duty.
*Stares in Grey Knights, inquisition and space Wolves*
I found the heretic. I have him in my sights. The emperor protects. Waiting for orders.
( by the emperor did I do him well. For this attention.)
You stand surrounded by the true believers and your emperor has abandoned you welp.
@@nickcort3773*flash bang Escapes without a problem*
Was looking for this comment. Take the shot, Vindicare; may the Emperor bless your aim.
Better yet, I typed that without reading your name
@@Azzatur orders Acknowledged firing.
I like the moment where skarbrand waited for khorne to turn his back and when he did skarbrand tried to kill khorne but he survived and was furious not because he tried to kill him but the fact that he waited for khorne to turn his back
It can be summarised as this "Khorne was not angry because Skarbrand attacked him like if he just charged in screaming when attacking him Khorne would be impressed but instead that his most powerful demon tried to pull a sneaky on him so he yeeted the fucker into the sky and broke his wings".
Cut to the little guardsmen unloading his weapon right in to the God face.
KHORNE: you get a new car!
Skarbrand swung so hard but all it did was barely even chipped the paint lol then got yeeted across the universe
@@vicegt and now the poor guardsman is being followed around by a blood throne of Khorne.
@@Blaze_Raven there are worst fates in the year 40k.
*Korne gets hit in the back*
"Im not mad, just disappointed"
I always thought "Cares not where the blood flows from as long as it flows" meant Khorne didn't take sides in wars - he just supported the real war and the warriors who fought it. edit: meaning they would be fighting any war - they are serving combat, not social entities.
I think his followers corrupted the teaching to just kill everyone
That is generally true, except for wars and conflicts with outcomes that can actually benefit him in a significant way. All of the chaos gods are in a power struggle with one another, so Khorne will absolutely pick sides if it might give him a leg up.
that is an interesting interpretation of the meaning of that quote. and it fits this video's main idea. that the followers twist the true meanings of the words, that the meaning changed due to different interpreations.
😊
😊
“Are the gods not actually slaves to us?”
That sent chills down my spine
the relationship between the chaos gods and life is pretty much the chicken or the egg scenario. An ouroboros of inconsistence.
@@jonathanathor117 It's actually really simple: If the chicken exists, the egg has always been.
@@oddtomato1049 Honestly that concept eternal existence doesn't really work for chaos gods. I mean that just implies that chaos won before anything ever started or it's some self fulling prophecy a cycle repeats like Ragnarok. Like yeah they're powerful but not that powerful.
Necrons: they damn well should be or they're going to have to get into the pokeball
@@xbleaksquidx Uncle Ruckus: I got the whip right here.
The way you describe what the chaos gods could've been before the warp was corrupted reminds me of Azrael's famous "Evil is an abstract" speech from the movie Dogma. He basically says that before human souls showed up in Hell; the "punishment" that existed there was merely the absence of God's presence, and seemingly endless silence. But when mankind began to sin and found it beyond them to hold themselves responsible for that, they'd carry their guilt and their desire to be punished with them to Hell. In so doing, Hell became the den of horror and misery to conform to mankind's desire for suffering in the name of repentance.
That kind of reminds me of Berserk where ultimately man kind made god, or the ideal of evil.
Holy shit I've never seen or heard of this scene until you suggested it. Just watched it and damn, it was chilling.
@@qvultaggio1 From what I've heard; it was cut from the movie for the sake of time. You ask me, they could've removed that whole thing with the Golgothan to give the Azrael scene the time it needed.
sounds like shin megami tensei haha
@DragonmanX90 Completely agree bro! This scene gives motivation and context which is honestly nonexistent without. Like, it changes the dynamic of Azrael's whole arc. Tbh aftet watching it im more inclined to believe they just didn't want us to sympathize with big bad rather than for the sake of time keeping, how about you?
That pic of the god emperor standing before the 4 gods is hard af
Dude I have only been fully into warhaammer for not only 2 years. And all of your content so far, has been a great way for me to catch up, espically to have them play in the BG while i paint, really helps me get in the mood to bring the lil guys to life
We worship Nurgle for the sanctity of life
We worship Khorne for the honor of soul
We worship Tzeentch for the wisdom of mind
We worship Slaanesh for the virtue of heart
We worship Chaos for the order of universe
We are the Graceful Host and for mankind we will liberate our gods from the corruption of universe's filth.
this was a battle chant i came up with a couple days ago, for a chaos space marine chapter that has a rather radical view of chaos gods.
today youtube recommends me this video.
coincidence?
Nope. Tzeentch is up to something...
Lol! This was cool bro
Damn man.... make sure you got that saved somewhere in case GW comes poaching this stroke of Awesomeness!!!!
I place nothing beyond the reach or capacity for greed of large corporations....
@@m15t3r_n8 Honestly, I would be glad if they saw this and do something with it. It is not like i would be using it for anything. If anyone else is interested in using this for something feel free to do so. Just a reference to me would be nice in case it is something public. :)
This is exactly what I want to make for my Chaos army when I make it.
I always loved the Idea of a small force of chaos fighting to bring some light back into the darkness of the warp and protecting one of the few bastions of peace for humans and perhaps even xenos who join their cause.
Thank you for the inspiration Alpaslan this gives me inspiration to make my own more good aligned chaos legion.
@@treystorz3181 You are welcome. If you make it put a showcase video on youtube. I would like to see it :).
Khorne: Honor through Bloodshed
Nurgle: Peace through Nihilism
Tzeentch: Knowledge through Madness
Slaanesh: Identity through Desire
Edit: HOLY-- MA! GET THE CAMERA! I'm famous!
Yeah, try saying that to the warlord titan outside your door.
@@thejevil7958 You mean under my pillo- CREEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDD
Identity?
Pleasure. No chaos follower has an identity separated from their god.
Thats some 1984 stuff right there.
@@jingbot1071 oh, what a Wilde comment.
"What if I told you.....?" Smells like heresy in here. You should have a talk with your local Inquisitor, he will be very interested in your intriguing ideas.
Written by a follower of nurgle before bieng killed:
"Nurgle is the protector of life. Maggots, diseases, insects, and parrasites are all living bieng that are just as alive as any sentient creatures. We can feed of him and be part of his flesh and he will see us as his children. All we need to do is to accept that the maggots feeding on us are our children in their own right. We are one happy family with everthing that lives, one with our own decay...
And that is true love."
(This is work of fanfic brought you by nixx, uou welcomed)
Onces I was asked why I choosed nurgle as my favorite chaos God and faction. On the surface I love the style, I love how forgiving the models are for making mistake while painting. A bit rust here , a touch of nurgle rot there and everythings fine.
But on a deeper level than that I have chosen nurgle because of my once received curse. I was diagnosed with cancer 4 years ago and to be honest it was one of my biggest fears. Being 25, happily married, two beautiful daughters and then a cancer diagnose. I felt fear, I felt anger I felt like I f hate the world and everything. My mind became dark. I fought against the odds and to be honest or was hell. At some point I accepted it. I accepted my fate and I accepted that if my time has came I will die. It was a bit relief not constantly worrying. I felt happiness again. I got the weird strength to really enjoy my last days on earth. I made awesome memories. We've been to Disney land, we went to a trip to island and all the other places we wanted to see but we couldn't because we collected our money to buy a bigger car or a house. Things that society wanted. I realized that sometimes we just need to live in the moment not caring about the future. Luckily I survived. The cancer resisted every therapy but at some point a therapy helped. I know this sounds super weird but for me it was clear. This diagnosis was given to me so that I finally realize that not only the future matters. Sometimes the here and now, the present matters.
When I started Warhammer I dived deeply into the world and all of their races and a friend lend me his books and the 'Lords of silence' was the one I've read at first. It really hitted hard but I'm able to say I can remember my darkest days and I remember how I felt about my situation. I remember nurgles present. Once I have seen it as a curse now I can say it was to greatest gift that was ever given to me.
Thanks for reading and have a good day. And I hope all of you can live a long and healthy life.
Papa nurgle welcomes you brother.
TLDR
Don't care.
@@wumpusmcgrumpusesquire6965 it takes 0 effort not to be rude and yet here you are, not reading what he typed in and yet commenting that you don't care cause you were too lazy to read it.
@@jna6767 Ok, I read through his post and my takeaway is that he's an idiot who identifies with a fictional entity in a universe created to sell plastic. CRINGE.
I love how complicated and dense these deep dives are. And I think it’s pretty cool you felt a connection to the possible interpretation of nurgle. Connecting with stories and ideas like these is a very human thing and it’s dope you found that. Hope you live a long healthy life man.
It's easy to forget that Chaos is, in fact, chaotic. It is a mess and inconsistent and it's possible to find possitive attributes in that mess, for example a general phrase I heard for life is to _embrace the chaos_ which is often seen as a positive phrase
the fact that one minute khorne will order his warriors to butcher an entire star system of innocent defenceless people and the next minute invade a world of space marines and avoid the civilians, is what makes them such good antagonists, because yes they are the big bad guys, but there's always good in them since the warp was never always like it is now, it was once a sea for souls to live in bliss
Yes inquisitor, this comment right here is heretical. Do your duty!
Which makes them neutral not good per se?
The only constant in the warp is inconsistency.
They may not be bad but they aren't good.
More of a true neutral that is influenced by belief. Seeing they only exist due to the negative emotions they represent.
@@DevoidGoat yeah, it does
Does raise an interesting question: If the Warp didn't get well...chaotic, would the Emperor even exist if he is meant to be a God of Order meant to offset the Chaos?
I'm probably overthinking it, but definitely a neat idea to think about!
I’ve always liked the idea of order and chaos being amoral forces of nature in need of each other: without chaos, order stagnates and dies out, without order, chaos cannot change into something meaningful.
The emperor is not the god of order, though the imperium would wager otherwise. They fight valiantly, but at what cost? What of the other species? True order is crystalline, stone, or metal. Would then the Necrons be the true and ancient force of order? The emperor is a puppet, an engine, the sacrificed psykers hold the warp back at a rate which race cars burn fuel. For all that is done in the emperor’s name; he’d fit right in with the old gods who’ve become twisted with the malice and bigotry of humankind.
The german channel "1000 für den Imperator" made the thesis that the World Eaters are a threat to Khorne because they are mindless berserkers, so their actions deprive Khorne from the honor and skill aspects warriors have. This is why the Blood Angles are important for him because they provide these aspects.
One thing I’ve always wondered about the chaos gods is how their followers would act in complete isolation. Say a khornite follower was dumped onto a uninhabited world with know hope of rescue, would they lose themselves in endless training in a search for mastery over their weapon or would a slanneshi learn the beauty and contentment in what surrounds them if there was nothing else to enjoy?
You're not THE Matt Ward...are you?
They probably will kill each other and commit horrible acts anyway
@@tigermunky what the fuck?
Assuming you're not Matt Ward trollin us.. I know that khornite followers mentally implode if they don't kill a soul for a day or two, and could attract the attention of the boss himself. Not sure about Slaneesh, I reckon with higher up followers with multitude of sensory receptors they either get creative and find some exciting stuffs in the barren world, find ways of pleasuring themselves, or get wacky much like we normal human losing our sanity after few hours in a silent chamber
I mean, a Slaneesh follower would turn to self mutilation, a Khorne follower would die of boredom, a Tzeech follower would try to now everything about the planet, and a Nurgle follower would maybe try to make the planet a little garden in the image of the grandfather's
Wonderfully presented - if there was no advantage to turning to the chaos gods, then no one would ever do it.
Still, the heretic must be purged, and all that.
What? The advantage is power and/or recognition from a God... That's always an incentive for many to do horrible things...
This wasn't wonderfully presented, this was a cult pamphlet saying "don't believe your lying eyes, those thousands of species worshipping the same chaos gods that all came to the same demise, just did it wrong... But were still rewarded for doing it wrong."
You would literally drink the Koolaid, wouldn't you?
@@ElementalEcho I have to admit there must be some allure to chaos or some advantage or no one would ever turn. But as I noted, the heretic must be purged. The Emperor commands it.
you speak heresy yourself blasphemer, the inquisition has noted your location you will be purged!
@@jdraven0890 nurgle gives you immortality and removes all pain from your life.
@@TobikunOuO By causing your body to necrotize, thereby rendering you in so much constant agony that you can't feel anything.
In the case of nurgle, i wouldn't call it just stagnation but also stability. And through that maybe not the acceptance of despair but the strength to withstand it. And the comfort found in a simple day to day life where nothing ever changes
Downright the best video on this channel. Watched is like 5 times and it's still good.
The realm of chaos being a reflection of our emotions reminds me of how in buddhism hell is created by someone's bad karma. Your evil deeds literally created hell.
So in a messed up sense, we created our mobsters without trying.
Except, well, even the evil deeds you think of doing with no intention of actually doing count.
And that why the Chaos gods are inherently evil.
@@ericsonkennway9651 seeing them as evil only makes them more evil. Shying away from the darkness only makes it fester.
It's a Catch-22 perpetrated by an empire that fundamentally misunderstood its rational Emperor's message. Much like how Yeshua tried to cement the divinity of every human being in the way that Eastern religions have, only for the Church to say, "Jesus was the divine Son of God, and we should worship him. No one else is as divine as him!"
Even to this day, the vast majority of Christians can only agree on the basis of Yeshua being the divine Son of God. *Any other way is heresy!"*
@@shoeberrypie finally, someone speaking truth.
If you had to dedicate your self to 1 god which one would you pick
I've always been a huge nurgle fan but I also love slaanesh. Honestly I love all of them Tzeentch is the most risky, nurgle is the most reliable. Slaanesh is great at first but then it goes real bad REAL quick... honestly Khorne sounds like the most fun 😅
Grandpa Nurgle is the only good choice.
Nurgle he’s so kind
Khorne
@@sheevpalpatine2128 that's quite Khorney.
As the warp is effected by thought what if the emperor deliberately made people concentrate on the bad parts of the gods so they turn bad
Maybe he needs the war to make him more powerful so the empire feeds him psyches so he can transcend to into a god
He doesn't need to. Negative emotions are already much more common than the positive ones. Especially with the amount of war and suffering in the 40k universe even without the chaos gods.
Mostly made, started, maintained and promoted by mankind. 😅
@@Damesanglante There are many other sentient species than Mankind in 40k
"The heresy is right over there, Inquisitor." Seriously, the problem with the Chaos Gods is their lack of moderation. They encourage the noble and positive aspects of their character only to those who are not already followers. Followers get sucked into the extremes of the emotions they embody. Khorne may talk up honor and bravery, but becoming a homicidal maniac who forgets all thought of honor and bravery won't get you a "Hold on, there," from him; if anything, he juices you up so that you can express your mania in ever-more-extreme ways. Ditto for the other three.
Never played a 40k game (likely never will) but thanks to this channel I’ve already ordered Gaunt Ghosts.
Hope you enjoy them! I haven't read them yet, but I've got the first one downloaded and ready to go. I've Been told there's some of the best 40K fiction
Gaunt’s Ghosts are a great set of literature some the best reading I’ve done full stop.
The Gaunt’s Ghosts books are incredible. I am on Warmaster right now and I have to say that it is one of the best series I’ve ever read.
Tanith first and Only! I would also recommend the Eisenhorn novels and anything Ciaphas Cain
@@joeclown4612 thank you for the recommendation! I’ve already made note of it.
Note: 'protagonist' does not mean 'good guy'; for example, Light Yagami is a protagonist, but also a villain. The protagonist is simply the primary perspective character.
Thank you for saying that so I don't have to. Excellent point.
but everyone is the hero of good guy of Their Own Story
@@jacobaugustine4052 I just explained that a protagonist does not have to be good, or positive, or a hero, regardless of what THEY believe. The protagonist is just the guy with the most screen time who the audience is supposed to be most interested in.
@@farkasmactavish but isnt light an antagonist
@@rafsanstudent3792 no. Can you read or not?
I think a better way to phrase Slaanesh always existing is that unlike her brothers, who were gradually formed from across the galaxy, she was formed from a generally more central location. The first god formation (Nurgle, Khorne, Tzeentch) would've ripped the warp into the chaotic form we know today, and since it was already a raging sea when Slaanesh goes from spread out idea of joy/pleasure etc to a coalesced entity embodying it, the sea gets more turbulent and erupts where the disturbance was, spilling into the material realm.
Even our current understanding of physics holds that time may not be a straight arrow… it is our feeble human perception that asserts the perspective that time is fixed. It’s all fun and games until you pass the event horizon. I feel like, though a wonderful image, your understanding of the event is similar to how most misunderstood the theoretical “big bang” event.
Just wanna say I'm so happy you got so many subs dude.
Your video quality has gone up like crazy and it's cool to see how you get better n better!
Keep it up!
Speaking of Nurgle, the Tau found an extremely abundant agricultural world that worshipped one of Nurgle’s Greater Daemons (Rainmaker, I think was its title). When the Tau attacked, this Daemon came and defended its followers, turning the planet into a horror show that destroyed the invaders. i assume everything and the people were restored after this was accomplished. The Chaos Gods don’t care what aspect of them receives people’s energy. The average Chaos follower is a demonstration that Chaos is not the problem, we are.
sounds interesting, where is this from?
If there was nothing about it changing back, then it was not changed back. It probably got swallowed in the warp, along with its denziens.
Sounds like heresy my guy ;)
@@nicolajluttinenscheel4509 you sound like imperium propaganda my guy
@Samar3n you sound like someone in need of a gauss shot my guy
I like that this implies that the difference between being a loyalist and being a chaos follower is just one afternoon of open-minded thought and open-ended knowledge
This is a metaphor for reality
This has got to be one of the most well made videos I've ever seen
Really love your take on all 40k lore. hope you keep doing more and more 🎉
If we take your example of Khorne as also being the god of honor, pity for the weak, tradition and discipline. Then logically warriors who take on those aspects, in a sense a balanced warrior, should reap the most rewards from Khorne. But that is not the case at all, the biggest champions of Khorne are bloodthirsty one-dimensional demons with no restraint or balance whatsoever.
They may still have a warped sense of honor, but that just a rationalization to justify their despicable actions.
Chaos gods are just not balanced like you describe, they are excessive in every regard yet cloak themselves in leniency to draw in their victims.
cos negatie emotions dominate imaterium so reward for bloodshed are proporcialy larger than for honor
like you said they are not in balance but like one jedi knight said "there is still good in them"
Or is it just the greatest rewards we know of SO FAR?, what if khorne can bestow even greater unimaginable rewards but no follower of his has been balanced enough to be worthy?
@@mzamethodman7134
That would be the coolest shit I've ever seen
thats the point of the video. They once were and have been twisted and corrupted from their previous selves
@@mzamethodman7134 that would be interesting
I'm curious, can an individual be blessed by 2 chaos gods? We know of people like Abaddon, who are blessed by all four of the gods, but can something like this happen on smaller scale? Can a scientist who finds pleasure in their work be blessed by Slaanesh and Tzeentch? Or one will inevintably take over?
Yea but than there would be war and you would need to impress one of them to get the boon. At least with Undivided you work for Chaos as a whole. So it is either Undivided or Single god. Nothing in between.
Chaos undivided like Perturabo and Logar
I could only see Tzeentch being ok as you go to spy on his brothers. I wonder if Malice would be for it as well?
Usually most of the Gods see the others as rivals so there would be a fight so the mortal focuses on a single one, unless of course he or she pledges to Chaos undivided
@@masterblaster5186 so all in or pick your favourite. Not gonna lie, it's a bit disappointing.
I really enjoyed this vid. It was like an audio book with pictures. Thank You!
Great Video!!
I think the Emperor realized the Chaos gods at their basis are just conflicting thoughts and desires that just have a seriously over the top leaning towards the negative emotions not just because the negative is necessarily stronger but vastly more plentiful. Perhaps his web way was not to cut off humanity from the warp but to keep the thoughts and emotions contained and away from the chaos gods so he can render them bad to being non sentient thoughts and emotions.
Or turn them back to whatever they once were before mortal negativity fucked them over
And in truth, human emotion leans more towards the negative because it serves us well in making us avoid danger. It's why we have to work so hard to be optimistic and hopeful for the future, as opposed to being hostile and fearful of the world.
In the grimdark Warhammer universe, turning to the Chaos Gods might not necessarily because you want to do evil, but it's just that life is so damned hard and worthless in that universe, that you'd want something to seem to care about you. The Chaos Gods are accepting and generous with gifts (even if the purpose of that is to bring humanity down), compared to the cold, rational Emperor who proved that not even his powerful self could lead humanity on without vast sacrifices. And when even his sons falter because of hardship, how can you expect the common citizen to fully accept their role as a throwaway cog in a vast, crumpling empire? It's kind of the same thing as choices at the end of the Dark Souls games.
You're giving too much credit to the megalomaniacal bio-weapon that mutated free will and used it to cripple mankind for its own ego.
I had this same thought. Further, I think the Emporer may have been attempting to remove as much of the fuel for the Chaos Gods as possible from the Galaxy, even before his plan to move mankind to the webway. His genocidal treatment of alien societies may be less about him being Space Hitler and more about him removing any powerful sentient life, particularly psychic capable, from the Galaxy before mankind's exodus.
According to that (quite insane) plan, while mankind undergo their next step in evolution and all become psykers, safely ensconced in the webway, the real world Galaxy is very low on fuel for getting the negative side of the Warp fired up. After thousands of years, mankind might be able to return to real space and might find the Warp quietened, like the supposed tranquil sea it was prior to the war in heaven.
In this way, the Emporer wasn't trying to destroy the Chaos Gods, but instead render them inert and harmless. Maybe even Benevolent.
If this verse get upside down where Chaos Gods in Benelovent form and Emperor is Evil Destructor their story still interesting
Another thing to note about Khorne. He believes so much in honour that when Skarbrand attacks him from behind he throws away his single most powerful follower and leaves them as a husk of what they once were
even after he believes he should have earned khornes favor again, he just laughs him off
Technically speaking he rewarded him his bravery, send him down to a place where there is a lot of stuff to kill.
@@Mr2Helios nah, khorne was pissed because he attacked form behind, had he attacked khorne from the front he’d be fine with it, happy even
@@bruhed1117 That's completely beside the point I was making but ok.
@@Mr2Helios Attacking from behind is not bravery, though attacking a god is. I think Khorne would have been somewhat happy, but it would also make sense if he was VERY pissed.
Great video! I think this has just sold me on setting myself up a Chaos army one of these days. Now I have to meditate upon which of the gods I'll sell my soul to.
I recently found your channel, and have been trying to learn more about the lore. I've found several Playlist of shorts of yours. But I can't say I enjoy the format. Do you have a list of these longer videos? They are MUCH easier to enjoy.
As Magnus once said:
"I HAVE NIPPLES ON MY HEAD?!"
I think this is enough to say they are truly the bad guys, and the emperor is always right
Unlike "Appeal to Authority" being a logical fallacy "Appeal to Nipples" is not. Anything with nipples not on a boob or a potential-boob from a base genetic template is proof of evil. Well done!
The Big E may be right about certain aspects of chaos but his plans for humanity are still convoluted and contrived at best. I mean unnecessary genocide, xenophobia and r/atheism didn't fix anything.
"But you are wrong King of Nipples!"
Itll help drive model sales
Yeah, I am pretty sure also that if one sits on a thrown of skulls, that pretty much says evil. Then there is the other one developing bioweapons against others, so yeah, another evil.
And yet like the daedra in elderscrolls, these "infinitesimal" beings are one-note entities, simultaneously extremely powerful, yet slaves to their domain, unable to truly behave and make truly free choices in the vein of mortals they hate/manipulate.
Infinitesimal means extremely small, if you didn’t know. It’s largely used incorrectly and seems to be the case here.
@@snake4228 I see, like infinite and decimal, a fraction. I admit I've heard this word used predominantly in media and from others. Thanks for the info, It never crossed my mind to look up the true definition, you kind of just look at the word and assume the context.
This is my second time watching this & honestly this is impressive.
Late to the party, but I enjoy your long form content. Don’t have time to read the books and follow the lore, but I often have your videos on in the back ground. So whatever you’re doing, keep it up, it’s good shit!
Magnus in "If the Emperor Had a Text-To-Speech Device" put it extremely well in episode 19.
Tzeentch - archetypal trickster and schemer, but as such, he's also an agent of change, which is sometimes necessary to grow.
Nurgle - stagnancy, but as such also stability, and he's effectively a primal force of life, death, and renewal.
Khorne - God of war, but also justice, vengeance, and honor.
Slaanesh - Tortures the hell out of people as part of self-indulgence and hedonism, but as you said, also representing sheer joy in existing.
And the biggest point he had to make - killing the Chaos Gods would result in a psychic backlash so large that the universe itself would effectively get wiped out.
That was unfortunately old lore. It has since been (not so much as retconned but rather ignored) and they no longer really embody any of the more neutral/good traits.
@@RockyX123 I thought the reason why the good traits of these chaos gods are gone is because of the followers insistent malicious worshipping?
@@RockyX123 that is the stupidest lore change I've ever heard, and I'm not just saying that as someone who might legit worship chaos if it were real, that's just plain dumb, sometimes I think GW doesn't actually now what they're doing
Not the universe, I don't think the chaos gods can reach out to other galaxies, plus, you would need infinite power to destroy an infinite universe
Amazing vidéo ! its full off poetry, great questioning and explanation !
Glad you made it longer
The perfect channel for introduction into the franchise, short content to get you hooked, and then long content that throws you into the rabbit hole
A certain, loud-mouthed Australian would tend to disagree
and then Luetin to really go into deep dives
@@shrekthecrusader8111 hahahaha
Yeah its perfect with majorkill
Nah. All you need is Majorkill and Leutin
I just want to put this out there, I think it's great that you've started with these longer videos!
It really fills a "warhammer-lore void" on CZcams that I've been feeling, since your tone and attitude makes the Warhammer lore suuuper easy to consume.
also, this is some MAD heresy right here.
I really like the eldars/durkhari part in the "birth" of slaanesh and overall corruption to the warp. Kinda sad there was such a focus on humans in this.
This was actually one of THE best takes on the nuanced nature of Chaos that I've EVER seen.
Also everything is the Necrontyr's fault.
In case of both Tzeentch and Nurgle - there is a saying in my family: There is a lot of optimism in the sentence "It can't get any worse". I see a lot of that in those two gods.
"It can´t get any worse"
Nurgle: It will!
Tzeentch: It may.
Slaanesh: It MUST!
Khorne: Is that a challenge?
Finally, someone who appreciates the Grandfather! One thing though, the Grandfather doesn't pause time for you, he simply makes you more resilient and takes the pain away. You will still die as you should, but you will endure far more than any heretic ever could! Things like having your heart cut out or organs shredded to a pulp will be inconveniences but if your lucky the wound will bring some new gift! Normal humans (non-space marines) still live their normal short lives but it will take some serious "killing" to end them before Papa deems it's time.
You have earned my sub with this well spoken video!
Preach brother!
For he who brings life, death, and rebirth! For the great father of all that rots and decays, FOR NURGLE!!!
Not only that, but Nurgle _loves_ you. Nurgle cares for his followers. Problem is that through all this bad writing, is that Nurgle has the wrong gender, Nurgle is a female aspect of emotions.
@@revcrussell what the warp are you even saying my guy, the Grandfather has no gender, same as all the lesser chaos gods
The creators of 40k have an interesting take on the theoledgy of their world. Many aspects of that obveiously stem from our own world. Each of those "Gods" stem from our deepest depraved desires. So I think in the 40k universe it's fir to say that without the emotional influences of man there would be no gods just greater demons that could be sent back to the Warp theoreticly making them slaves to man.
Oceans of greenskins make changing Khorne pretty tough imo, even without mankind's influence. Same with Slaanesh and the hordes of Drukhari in the webway- mankind isn't the only problem here
Loved this video❤
"The Imperium is founded on Chaos " to quote a Imperial Historian.
The Warp is a realm that has been posiened by us mortals, and it is a realm outside time, however they can see into the past but never the whole picture of the future. They can see all its possibities but never it where it ends up.
No, the warp has been fooked to Chaos because of the war of heaven, and the horny ancient eldari
@@Yes-kb5yv Yes and no. Considering how vast the warp is, everything that has lived as poured their emotions into the warp. This includes War in Heaven and Eldari, but thats just one piece of a much bigger puzzle
@@NobleWolf hard disagree. Every piece of lore we have about the warp before the war in heaven paints it as pretty ok. It was stirred up and turned into the hellsacpe that it is now durring the war in heaven and even was what ended it with the whole enslaver plauge.
@@madnessguy1300 I never said anything pre war in heaven. The Elder did pour and create their own gods within the warp during the War in Heaven.
Not to mention the thousands of other races out that with any level of presence within the warp. Theres a lot we are left to assume and think about.
Oh we are just one of many that poised The warp.
War in heaven was i think more inportant poison.
Well. Nurgle seems to be a neat guy. I mean, he's jolly and deeply cares about his people. The way the "Tome of Decay" for Black Crusade presented things made me rethink about Nurgle's philosophy. He's not death, he's overabundantly vigorous and spreads life everywhere, in frenetic cycles of endless birth, decay, and birth again from those who died. Also, Khorne knows his hatred and anger, he obviously is evil and takes pleasure in that. Tzeentch just don't care, what's morale in the grand scheme of things... Slaneesh is far too conceited to see as good anything else but what pleases it. But Nurgle wants to deliver us from the suffering, and embodies the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". There's no winning against decay. Except if you become decay. You get pumped up with positive energy and primal joy, all your pain is gone, and you feel the need to share these boons with the poor afflicted souls. Nurgle is mercy in its purest form. The others are douche. But fatso the stinker, he's OK in my books.
I agree about the stuff said about the other Chaos gods, but not Nurgle. He is jolly that he can spread biological plagues to others. They survive or are reborn for him to try new types of plagues. He is the emissary of eternal torment.
@@cainabel6356 Nurgle tests your mettle. You have to resists as long as you can, then accept Gramps. It's not just a question about giving up to disease. Those who have endured and then accepted Nurgle are freed of pain and embrace their true mission, of spreading salvation to the galaxy through disease, an eternal cycle of endless death and grim rebirth. But ever so joyous and festering.
Tell that to Isha
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 Isha actually likes Nurgle the same way he likes her, they both challange the other and Isha is old enough to actually remember Nurgle before his corruption. She even plays with his kids...
@@Hestaka I'm gonna need a damn reliable source for that because it is the single most anti-warhammer thing I've ever heard
Aprif Fool's video or not, you raised so many good points that i'm willing to accept this as new chaos cannon XD.
This video was absolutely brilliant. Thank you for giving the other side of the coin.
Now that think about it all makes sense... Khorne is a teacher of honour and how joyful it is to fight your equal, Nurgle teaches us that sometimes stagnation and relaxation is needed, Tzeentch teaches us is that we are no one's slaves and that our destiny awaits us and Slannesh teaches us that we can enjoy the thing we do to a certain degree like playing cards with friends and or anything in particular. I really liked the video, keep it up
And the emperor of mankind is basically a man that's acting like he's Jesus christ
And 9 times out of 10 tzeentch hand crafted that destiny by making a thousand son marine step on a daisy 300 years ago
@@vid9511 As a necessity.
@@vid9511 wrong. The emperor hated religion and did not want to be worshipped.
@@WillButtlerYeets I say that cuz I just find it funny
I love how happy Nergle and his demons always look.
Pigs in shit.
*they are yucky 🤢*
It's why Nergle is my favorite Chaos god. He only wishes to share his gifts and deliver people from the pain and suffering of reality.
thx for your work :) from fan to fan
The warp gods being the collective manifestations of sapient thoughts/desires/feelings is something I learned early on via lore videos. Heck, the warp itself is canonically known to be a sort of "collective unconscious", and the birth of Slaneesh all but confirms your conclusion.
I like how it's a fools video, yet doubles as a genuine analysis of how chaos actually fundamentally functions.
Conflating "good" with "not entirely malicious" is the mark of a fool.
Also: Khorn doesn't encourage mercy, he encourage contempt.
Same could be said for conflating the unknown with evil
@@Luk4zguy97 Relevance to the discussion?
@@Ackalan it's the other side of the conversation. These are subjects that are defined by their relationships to eachother. It's very relevant
@@Luk4zguy97 But the chaos gods aren't unknown to us, we know both sides.
@@Ackalan what is chaos then? You might find you know less than you thought if you question the things you take for granted. Like the dichotomy of good and evil...
Yeah, the chaos gods are very complex if you look a moment deeper into them.
They are broad concepts more or less personified. Khorne is honor and all forms of combat, Slaanesh is pleasure and joy, Tzeentch is learning and improving, Nurgle is life and healing. But also all the extreme versions of those concepts.
I very much enjoyed your thoughts on this.
This begets an interesting possibility with the idea of a Warp Follower who practices all of the "good" tenets of the Chaos God's. Practice and discipline, mastery over ones power and self via Khorne, the search of knowledge answers as well as being a learned scholar and mage from Tzeentch, one who loves so deeply and dearly, absolutely in tune and master of their emotions that there is no end, no darkness with Slaanesh, and the acceptance of the end, while living as fully as possible, bracing life to the fullest from Papa Nurgle. What kind of person would this create. How strong would this being become. Mastery of Oneself to the fullest extent
Then it turns out trayzn caught the mf in one of his pokeballs
Quite true and thus you see how some enemies of the chaos faction became a massive threat to the emperium
you see more of a display of this in warhammer fantasy where good, evil and neutral gods (Sigmar, Solkan, Shalia, Kurnous, Khaine...) manage to maintain a semblance of power in the mortal world due to their faithful, even though their power cannot compete with the chaos gods.
you get the emperor...
I mean Fulgrim kinda went after being as best as he could to a perfectionist, harmful level and look what that did to him
Very well done, bro. This long content is exactly what I've been looking for
He's so good at it, for someone who just kind of arrived on the scene and claims to barely have any equipment or experience the general quality of his work is very up there.
Hard agree.
Majorkill is also a pretty good source if you're looking for long form content. I still like Weshammer a lot, though.
If slannesh is sooo nice why does she eat eldari souls when they die why isn't she like "yo you can pursue any pleasure you want i won't kill you or torture you"like she killed many gods too after her death
There’s few who can produce a long video with quality the whole time, Wes is capable of it, it’s my person opinion of course but I think he’d help himself and the community a lot if he made longer videos like this and then just did his normal shorts as well
Wow! Insta-subscribe. Great view of the chaos gods, I like Nurgle even more now. :)
As much as i could never see myself actually playing the games, the lore is simply fantastic. Dark, gritty and full of explosive battles.
Khorne: Martial prowess and veneration of honorable warfare
Nurgle: Release from pain and a sense of belonging
Tzeetch: Freedom gained from knowledge and the chance to change
Slannesh: To enjoy every experience denied to you your entire misbegotten life
on the other side of the coin you could argue that the Emperor is a god of chains and subjugation through his frankly kind of close minded rhetoric
Chaos is Freedom in its truest form: no rules nor laws, the illusion of control doesn't exist
While Order is the complete opposite of that: its beautiful since it took chaos and applied control unto it, turning an overgrown forest into a beautiful garden.
Khorne : Courage and Truth
Nurgle: Serenity and Love
Tzeetch : Knowledge and Hope
Slannesh : Emotion
Khorne the god of Honest Murder
Nurgle the god of why bother
Titsneech the god of 10d chess
Slutneesh the god of weird shit
Khorne marine here and your correct
Chaos will be forcing you to intensify those emotions to the point of self-destruction.
Before the Horus heresy and well the eye of terror, when in book 2 the warp was relaxing colorful clouds, I believe would’ve been a decent time serving the chaos gods, but when things got wacky and wild as the chaos gods realized they were about to be destroyed by the emperor eventually, that’s when I feel they got really angry and twisted, though it definitely was twisted before
The war in heaven also did a number on the chaos gods
Now I want to see a narrative campaign of a war between factions that represent the different ideologies of ANY of the chaos gods.
One side representing the good aspect, the other the bad.
Your channel is actually pretty good. 👍👍 I like the story videos too. Although I still say possessed pig-kid-Nurgle thing is predictable. But nevertheless it was fun to listen to.
Pretty interesting video and as for my thoughts on the matter trying to describe them as good or evil is too simplistic. I would however describe them as predatory. They each encourage the kinds of emotion that give them strength, like Nurgle appears kind and generous to the diseased and outcasts, but one should still remember that he is sometimes the cause of said misery. Slaanesh is like a drug dealer giving all sorts of promises and encouragement to indulge more in one’s desires, only finding out later that you need more and more stimuli to the point you spend more time searching for that high than actually experiencing it.
I think that's the best way to describe them: they're ancient predators who know how to get their way.
They are neither good nor evil not because they don't easily fit into those categories... but because they don't care about how people view them, only if they'll gain power and control from those that worship them.
As it's perfectly put, Khorne cares not where the blood flows from
They are all drug dealers, frankly. The chaos gods tend to lead with their positives, but they will always lead their worshippers down a destructive path.
Slaanesh is as you say, just an endless downwards slope to depravity.
Khorne instills honor and drive to defend others, but will eventually twist that into unending bloodlust.
Tzeentch gives knowledge and hope, while at the same time feeding your ego and prepping you for a fall.
Nurgle certainly bring peace to his followers and perpetuates a cycle of life, but many who follow him are struck with depression, and that life cycle more exists for others to enjoy the "joys" of dying over and over again.
That's the truly terrifying part of chaos, all these benign and positive things can suddenly twist you into an insane cultist. The fact you can be doing everything right, and still end up corrupted. There is a reason the oath of the Inquisition is "Innocence proves nothing."
I think the way Khorne tempts mortals is that he justifies one’s anger. Pledge yourself to him and you will have the strength to never be oppressed, ridiculed, and bound again. To take revenge against your enemy for past humiliations and injustices. I think that’s how the chaos gods get you they don’t immediately show the extreme parts to you, but instead play into what you want. The strength to seek justice or to protect oneself, the ability to endure whatever the universe throws at you, to savor every joy in your relatively short life, and the hope that you can change your fate. It all seemed so innocent at the start.
I think a being that sole driving motivation is to feed off and encourage excess counts as evil. Regardless of what their core motivation is, they all will universally encourage their followers to always take it further. And when you take anything to an absurd extreme, it will eventually become toxic. Hell, make a chaos god of charity, and eventually it will get to the point that it makes its followers tear out and give away their own organs to random passersby, and try to shower others in so much gifts that they end up crushing people under the sheer bulk.
The Chaos Gods are essentially emotional feedback loops, constantly pushing their followers to greater extremes.
I'm torn, my death guard army says you're right, but my ultramarines say you're a heretic. who should i believe?
Never believe an ultramarine
If your armies are saying stuff to you, get your pills/s
I may be biased as a Khörnate but listen to the Death Guard. Anybody is better than the Omega Boy Scouts.
When in doubt listen to papa Smurf, he’s the only person in the story who makes sense.
@@blademaker9843 Your blueberry acai tax collector can lick the bloodiest part of my chain-axe.
"And we do not manipulate them. If anything, they manipulate us. We are their toys. Their dolls, if you will" Morpheus of the Endless, The Sandman
Connects weirdly well
The more positive aspects of the Chaos Gods are more seen in Warhammer Fantasy. Many Warriors of Khorne are renowned tacticians and duelists. Festus, champion of Nurgle, was a doctor, who was corrupted in an attempt to cure one of his plagues. He secretly runs a nurgulite cult of doctors and physicians that operate hospitals across the Empire.
I do really like this take of the chaos gods not being evil antagonists but simply gods with a belief that is interpreted in both good and bad ways. Of course they clearly arent the good guys but it would be cool to see more sides to them besides murderous eldritch horrors.
I've always seen 40K as examples of extremism of archetypes. The Imperium is order ad extremis....zealotry in its purest form. The Chaos gods are pure, unfettered, emotion. What happens when you repress feelings as a civilization to the point where asceticism is too crazy a party? And mix in a large amount of psychically powerful people? Yeah...that's my head canon anyway.
Man this is some top tier heresy.
Love your videos :)
36,000 souls lost to Chaos and only 515 faithful.
This video is heresy.
I would love to see some nurgle related art or models that represent more of the rebirth aspect of nurgle, rather than just decay. Nurgle represents the cycle of life and death, not just endless decay and dread.
It would be cool to see nurgle daemons or warp mutations that have a visual theme of new growth and flourishing life.
yes, inquisition? i have some heresy that needs to be looked at.
I have already reported myself to my local inquisitor.
@@weshammer then you did the right thing. May the emperor shine his light upon you again.
I can see the chaos gods being effected by the necrons as the beginning of the fall and then the after effects becoming a feedback loop. It could, in theory, also provide an avenue of redemption if the authors eventually wanted to explore that.
This might be the best 40k Video put there. Amazing work.
I just hope the Inquisition won‘t stumble upon this…
I don't care if this was a joke, it's so well done and the arguments are compelling
12:40
It seems more strongly implied that as the old ones weaponized the warp to greater and greater degrees it "broke" suddenly and transformed into it's modern form. Meaning the warp underwent a Chernobyl like shattering and was never cleaned up
Of course this also implies that the warp can be "fixed" eventually
I think that is almost what the necrons do in their campaign in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2, they close the eye of terror. Of course that event is not cannon.
Fixing the warp is actually what I think the purpose of the Tau is. Think about it - we know that chaos gods can be born from massive surges of emotion experienced by trillions of sentient beings at the same time, like how Slaanesh was born from the Aeldari hedonism. The Tau are focused entirely on uniting all sentient life - trillions upon trillions of souls - in the pursuit of peaceful cooperation and the greater good of all. What else would that do, given enough momentum, but create a new God? What effect would a universe at peace have on changing the warp?
@@BirthofaPainter tau dont believe in demons though so after they unite everything there will still be a massive chaos presence because tau will know they exist and therefore manifest them but will not do anything to deal with the warp itself.
So eventually there would be massive sectors of cultist planets all pretending to work for the greater good.
@@Bakeddru that really shouldn't matter though; the warp - and by extension the demons which inhabit it - are built out of the emotional energy the galaxy provides them with, so if that energy experiences an overwhelming change, so too would they
Perhaps but the chance of that happening is very slim. Especially since the chaos gods followers are actively making such a positive shift damn near impossible with all wanton violence, scheming, and depravity.
If anything, good old emps always tried to dispel the notion of 'gods' being somehow better than humans. He advocated for a human concept free of any divine conditions.
The gods resemble so much the human condition simply because, for [reasons] they seem to like the human souls above all others. Which makes them dependant on us, not the other way around. You acould argue that humanity needs them too, but, that is wrong; we are creatures with feelings, but, unlike other species in the setting, we are capable of mastering them.
They may represent a wide range of emotions, but the point is, worshiping the gods of chaos, devoting to one or more of them implies the notion of a human being slaved by their emotions. The project of the Emperor was to guide humanity to a state where us, as a species, were masters of our emotions, not get rid of them, they are part of us after all, but to not be slaves of our wrath or be misguided for a code of honor, nor to be slaved by the thirst for knowledge, nor to accept our state, nor to be slave of our vices.
The gods of chaos may not be as bad as the imperium's want them to appear, but they are not the protagonists, nor the good guys.
I believe the chaos gods are like these self-improvement and auto-help gurus of our world, all of them offer you hacks and shortcuts to improve your life, to become better, stronger, smarter, etc... but at the end of the day, there's only one way to improve, and that is trough discipline and developing good habits. Both this things are what the emperor represents, the will to put yourself restrains and to choose to do the things that will help you to become better, not what feels nice, nor what makes you accept your condition.
"Improvement through discipline and good habits."
Is improvement even something real? I mean true improvement. An improvement at the deepest level of one's heart or mind. An improvement that would stop suffering. One might argue eating well and working out is an example but that is just superficial change on the surface. You might still have the same gluttony you had towards food change into perhaps carnal desires.
So you see, the problem has an astounding depth to it. And in my opinion the folly of such thought patterns are infinitely more dangerous than all chaos gods combined.
@@nighteatingyou no improvement can stop suffering, but you can change the meaning you adscribe to it. In order for your suffering to have a better meaning you start small. In your exercise analogy, yes, you will still want to stuff as many junk food but you may want to not do so because in will ruin your weeks effort.
To change is not wishful thinking but it requieres a tremendous amount of effort. But it is possible.
They are dependent on us?
Sure, as a lion is on a zebra.
What if you just worship all 4 gods equally for the greater Values they hold, wouldn’t that just make you a messiah
i can't remember the war but in a certain sector tyranids were wiping everything out. The imperial decided to lead in the orks so they would clash. it inevitably made things worse because orks pop us as fungus and tyranids feed on biological matter to grow. This cluster was going to end to the complete loss of the sector and for some reason at that moment one of the chaos legions came in and started fighting them. Ultimately they could've seen this as the start of the true end and wanted to circumvent it to keep the food supply of mortal singular souls in check. Ive seen them as mirrors to life and their extremism having developed because of the emotions of each proceeding generation and war.
Nod twice if you're being held hostage by Zinch
6:53 to 7:00 I think that this can honestly be applied to the real world, and is advice that we need to listen to.👍