2024 Canyon Grail CFR Review - Why it’s BETTER but also FLAWED!
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- This is the brand new Canyon Grail CFR, an update on the original launched in 2018, the German company’s first gravel bike. This one has been made much more aero and racier but has some nice versatility built into it. I've been riding it for several weeks to find out what it's like.
Blythe Grail here www.canyon.com/en-gb/gravel-b...
Be sure to check out Matt Page's GritFest event, it's highly recommend gritfest.co.uk
Content
00:00 Intro
00:26 More aero handlebar
1:26 Frame design
2:13 Comfort seatpost
2:27 Tyre clearance
3:13 Tyre size gripe
3:21 Frame storage
6:12 Prices and equipment
7:56 Ride impressions in Wales
11:45 What’s the new handlebar like?
12:23 Fit and geometry
12:55 Is it comfortable?
14:05 Likes and dislikes
15:46 N+1 Killer?
16:19 Summary
Supported by Saddleback
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The placement of the frame storage is the thing they have missed on the new Endurace. On that bike, the top location is horrible for room and esthetics. On the new Grail, bot the triangle bag and storage in the bottom tube are spot-on. CFR version will make a lot of bank-accounts turn red ;)
Exactly! I had the newest Endurace for a couple weeks before returning it. Location of storage is a terrible idea given that most of sweat drips right onto that flap. On top of that I couldn’t use it for anything given that proprietary Canyon tools weren’t even on sale for 4-6 months in the U.S.
Btw don’t get me started with the proprietary accessories for the new Grail and lack of availability in the U.S. You can buy the newest bike today but none of the cool accessories they promote for Grail can be purchased till Spring 2024! What’s the point?
If you can, please do a follow up with 30-32 mm road tires if you can, and comparison to the new Endurace for road riding. Thank you!
Dear Canyon and all bike manufacturers, integrated bar stem combos are slick…but please let us choose bar width. Nothing like getting a several grand bike only to have to drop 300+ to get a bar that actually fits you. I’d ride a large, but no way would I want a 44cm bar…even on a gravel bike.
And stem length.
Oh bro, got the new madone slr 7 axs, now ready to drop 750€ for a new bar + stem combo
More customization is coming at the end of 2024 for Canyon. Kinda like what Orbea offers
@@frienduro24 Let's hope.
44cm is it small or large for you?
One of your best videos. This format where you go out and ride it's cool
Glad you liked it!
Great review David! I am glad to see prices are coming down. Love your new office space, it's a fixer-upper. Regards from Arizona where we have hardly any rain.
Awesome video, and really fun to watch. Great bike too! Thanks David 👍
Thanks! 👍
In my opinion an way better execution that their endurance bike.. Lots of cool features with actually good solutions in comparison to whatever the tool belt was in the top tube on the endurance
yes, given that this bike and the Endurace have almost the same effective stack / reach, I don't see why anyone would choose Endurace over this bike other than gravel specific gearing and tires.
@@aacemyan The average male is 176cm. That puts us on the small frame Grail. There's only a 0.3deg difference in HTA and 10mm longer chain stay at this size. This bike is effectively an upgraded Endurace for most people.
I’ve just had a test ride on this at Canyons HQ in Koblenz. I’m 188cm tall, 91.5cm inside leg,and although the geometry chart on the Canyon website suggests that I need a large the staff there told me that they recommend a medium as it’s a long bike. All of the staff said I spoke to said that in their experience everyone needs to go down a size. The medium felt like my Endurace large, both in position and handling. I tried a large and it felt enormous was not comfortable. I normally ride a 58 Specialized Diverge, and this felt so much more nimble and fast. The lighter weight probably makes most of the difference, but it felt good. I’m tempted, but I really want a mullet gearing with a 10-52 and 42 chainring. I love climbing and technical surfaces but I only have an FTP of 215, and at 66 I’m not going to get any fitter. The Crux may be an option but I’d like downtube storage and top tube mounts. The Enve Mog is another one I’ve looked at but haven’t ridden.
Hi, i'm 190cm and 92.5cm inside leg. Would you still recommend the M Version? The canyon size finder does recommend a L or XL. Thank you for answering.
@@ZotexH4voK I can't recommend that you get a medium, you need to try it yourself. But other testers on CZcams haven't found the sizing out that much and have gone with their normal size. I suspect that a large would be fine for you, as you are a little bit taller. I did try a large and it wasn't a bad fit, it just felt a bit stretched. But I didn't buy one in the end. I decided that the geometry and tire clearance wasn't perfect for me and the riding I do. I'm not at the pointy end of a race, and I enjoy long (100-200km) and technical off road. So a mix of comfort and handling is prefered over aero and fast. My Specialized Diverge 58cm with 45mm tires and a 40t and 10-50 mullet ticks all the boxes.
I’m 6’2” with a 34” inseam. Ride a 58cm Emonda and went with a size medium grail. I’ll let you know how it is when it arrives. Looking at geo the size Medium grail is a bit bigger (reach and stand over height) than my emonda.
@@lathamhardee They are completely different bikes. The size should be different. I think the Emonda comes with a 100mm stem
@@lathamhardeewhat was the outcome, do you like the medium?
I love that bag AND downtube storage! The bag in that location is probably better for aerodynamics too. If this Grail came out last year, I would have likely bought it over the Cannondale SuperSix CX. Although I do absolutely love my CX and that gray/purple/black paintjob is amazing. I would probably go with a different paint scheme on the Grail personally. I love the look of it, but I have never had good luck with matt black. It quickly looks like garbage with use. Just looked that the website and it looks like they all have the matt black on the front.
Really liked the clean and probably aero frame bag integration. Great colour scheme.
Tnx a mlllion for this review. I would really like you to test a 45mm tire and see if any brand would fit. Keep up the good work.
This is the closest i have yet seen to the mythical quiver killer. I can totally understand why they went with those tires and that level of clearance - those tires are batshit fast (i am running a set at the mo) and certainly i can imagine people wanting to run a double crankset on this. Great bike. And cheap.
yeah, the tires are fantastic
Shimano really needs to update their GRX DI2
@@lorsch. And offer 2x 46/30 to 36 cassette as SRAM wide, yes. Maybe even 40.
What is cheap about 7k £ for a bike?
they are great but dont hold long, at least that was my experience.@@tonyg3091
Thx you David! Another excellent review. Been waiting to upgrade my ride for what feels like a lifetime. Have it down to the S Works Crux and the new Grail. I'm in Los Angeles and about 10 miles from dirt so need a ride that can do it all (you got to be sharp/quick not to get tagged by L.A. drivers). Do you have an initial opinion on compliance btw Crux/Grail? I love the new upgrades on the Grail but do I need to be concerned about grail's stiffer feel? My goal is half/full centuries gravel races and just taking advantage of the amazing gravel around me for some long days in the saddle. Have eyes on new wheel set that would drop appx 400g in weight and bring Grail bit closer toward Crux weight/my wish-list weight. I'm a bit older so realistically this purchase would be my one and done splurge. As always grateful for what you do.
For over 10 years I've run a small private professional bike shop out of my home/garage near Seattle. Since I do not sell bikes I have no bias when people come to me for advice on what kind of bike and brand is best for them. For several years customers who wanted a nice bike at a reasonable price, I've always recommended Canyon that is until 1.5 years ago when Canyon started getting a little to crazy with their propitiatory odd size headsets, fixed-handle bars that don't fit some riders. And can not get parts to work on these crazy parts. My Honest Advise This, if you want to have a nice bike that is fun to ride and give you a trouble free experience, "DO NOT PURCHASE A CANYON BIKE! You will start to regret it the moment you put it together out of the box, just like I started to experience it my self trying to make fitting adjustments for my customers only to learn it can not be done. Don't get me wrong, their quality is good, but their proprietary thinking is Real Bad.
Great bike! The storage solutions are the best I've seen and the go-fast bits are definitely done well. The limited tyre clearance will be this bike's issue. If you want a real quiver killer, the 3T Exploro with its more than generous clearance will be a better solution, albeit a more expensive one.
Looks great as a race bike or single quiver favouring road.
Is it easy to adjust bar height?
(E.g. slammed for racing, but higher for endurance or sightseeing?).
Agree - any bike with single-piece handlebar should allow you to specify on order….
I’m glad you covered that at the end, I’m looking to also have one bike fits all, looking for a new winter bike and also can do gravel, is this possible with those tyres? Or are there road tyres out there that will fit those wheels?
Hi David, enjoyed your balanced review. A things, firstly, would the standard carbon frame be a bit less harsh than the CRF. Secondly, your rides looked amazing. Any chance of giving some details of the routes you rode when in Wales, or rough location. Thanks Dean
I do like how gravel bikes have almost developed their own n+1.
Gravel bike for racing uci type races
Gravel bike for adventures where you need lots of bags
Gravel bike with monster tyres for rough terrain
Gravel bike for UK muddy gravel
Gravel bike with suspension
Etc
Etc
Oh yeas. I own a Rennstahl Gravelbike for Bikepacking and Endurance Stuff it is a Steel Frame with Campa Ekar. But it is not fast enough for Races so….😅
N+1 then 😂
They were «touring bikes» or «trekking» before the marketing term «gravel» was dropped 8-10 years ago.
I'm riding a Surly CrossCheck custom build which is 11 years old, and then there were no any «gravel bikes» and it was impossible to buy pre-built bike with road geometry, lot if mounting points (fenders and racks at same time) and good groupset (like 105 all around) You need 105+? There is a racing bike for 25mil tires and without a single mounting point. You want a bike for touring with a tent, sleeping bag, gas stove and food for a week? Here is something with a flat handlebar and subpar components.
Humor of the situation is, all modern gravel bikes are the same now - they become weight-winners sport, as road bikes before. Only with wider tires and ugly flared dropbars.
ah thats neat ! lovely colourway.
Glad the double decker handlebar is gone, just didnt see the point!
Really nice video! Looking for the best group-set option on this bike, would like to hear any recommendations. I will be riding on the road for about 50% of the time and other 50% gravel, thus would want something to go ah higher speeds. I also live in a relatively flat area with almost no climbs. Which chain-rings/group-set would you recommend?
Think you’re right about the bar accessory mounts- not sure they’ll stand up to any knocks or offs common on gravel rides. Also those tyres are great for racing but the side wall can split easily as happened to me at the gravel worlds last week😢
Great video, David! Do you know the frame weight?😊
Nice review, just bought the CF, can you post a link to your Strava for the Crychan Forest and Brecon rides please? Thanks
I love the bike and at last a descent paintjob. But I agree with the limited tire width. But I also like the trip you made. Looks great! Unfortunately in Holland this cant be found. I will check the site from Canyon, hope the prices are descent.
"Unfortunately in Holland this cant be found." Do you mean the bike, or the rolling hills? 😅
Been riding a gravel bike as a road bike with 2 sets of wheels for years. One by too. Currently riding a Diverge even with the heavy future shock and Ekar works fine. I find I go for the dedicated road bike less and less and even club rides at road pace are ok.
Great Bike it will be my next one. I one a nother Gravel Bike for Bikepacking. But i tried some Gravelraces this Year and want to buy a Gravel Racer
Could you add fork brackets and cage bags for bikepacking / touring? Wondering if the seat post is less good than the leaf spring Grail version for removing bumps?
The bike looks great, How would you compare the comfort to the Canyon Endurace?
The specs of the bars are kinda like those of the zipp xplr bars which have a 3* back sweep, 5* flare, and 11* out sweep, though the zipp versions are only alloy.
Decided to order a gen 1 after not being overly impressed with the changes on this, for my use. Good for racing, I'm sure, but I'm not doing that. And I do actually want the double decker for comfort and versatility on longer rides and on pavement. On clearance now plus free shipping, best price yet after I've been looking at getting one for a couple years now, this was too good a deal to pass up.
Hey David! How does it compare to Matt’s 3T?! Both seem like super fast bikes with an emphases on exploring. How’s the ride compare? #1 and 2 on my short list.
Thanks 🙏, how does it compare to the giant revolt, when it comes to riding quality ? Cheers, Phil
Off topic, but what lid and shorts are you wearing please David... Thanks Dan
Hi David, great review. Can I ask, what brand are the mudguards you showed?
They are Canyon own brand mudguards
Is a stunner for sure. You are a lucky boy!
Mate, are they still messing about with that 1 1/4" steerer tube?? Thanks.
No frame storage in the CF SL version...why Canyon why???
Are those handlebar mounts adapting with quad lock systems ?
It's a weird decision to make handlebars wide (for bikepacking) and add mudguards option (for commuting), but still decide against fork mounts and 45mm tyre clearance.
Very nice
Great review btw,but can you tell me about the size you ride as I live in Madrid and went to canyon Spain for a fit on the grizl and was told a small,but I’m normally a medium as I’m 178cm.. so are you riding the same size as previous canyons you’ve tested ?? Many thanks 🙏
I'm on a size medium and 181cm tall and very average dimensions, find the fit spot on, and yes I always ride a size medium canyon (unless it's a mtb and I'm on a large then)
Amazing and very detailed review of an interesting bike. Honestly, the best one I‘ve seen.Thanks a lot, David! 🙌🏻
So many amazing bikes for fast gravel out there and the new Grail checks so many boxes. Its utility and integration are stunning.
Currently looking for a new bike, I really have no clue which of these it will be: Aspero, Crux or Grail CF SLX?
Do you think the based model with grx 1by is good value?
Canyon says the max tyre clearance on this bike is 42mm, which is the same as its predecessor, however that figure is with fenders installed.
Front 46 Rear 42.
You can fit some 45s…
I am between M-L what size would you recommend? Thank you in advance
Would tire clearance improve with 650b wheels? On my older topstone I was able to increase clearance from +/-40 to +/- 50.I agree that clearance of 45/47 is a min. for a "do-it-all" bike. Would be nice if there was some info about this...
Of course, 650B 47 is for sure fits.
I like to push the limit of recommended tyre clearance and run 700x42 on my Open UP - it's tight, but fine. I wonder if 700x45 would actually fit with close tolerances on this bike? Worth a try! It's looks ace with lots of cool tricks up it's carbon sleeves.
It might fit if you're willing to forgo mud clearance, I'll see if I can swap in another wheel to check - didn't have time before finishing the video
45 front / 40 rear it is also nice combination :)
Yeah! Or even 45 front and 42 rear
Nice Specialized bottle 😉
The duracell battery paint job is sick
Any news of a Frameset only, like the Grizl?
Does the new drop bar fits the 1st gen Grail?
@davidearthur Hi, i'm in search of a gravel bike for performace and travel. I see the new canyon grail cf slx 8 axs and the orbea terra m21e team. The prices are similar but the grail have carbon wheels. is this bikes good for bikepacking and speed? Is the tyre clerance a limit on the grail ? thanks
Im a enduro guy. I have long well packed gravel trails around but good quiet roads as well. I expect 40% (light) gravel and 60% (don't care about records) road Is this bike a good choice to apply a second pair of road wheels or there are better candidates?
Yes I reckon so, and I reckon sticking with these G One RS tyres will be just fine on the road, they're not slow at all unless you absolutely want to smash it
Any chance you can link the route in the description dave
How close is it to the Endurace with road tires ?
It's and no for me due to the handlebars. I like setting up my bikes with custom stem length and handlebar width. Canyon is really missing out on a lot o potential custumers due to the handlebars being so wide. I ride a 38mm on all my bikes with 120mm stem and Im 5'8 with a very long arm span. 6'1 in fact. If canyon offered different sizes of handlebars I would be interested in upgrading to the Grail. Im actually on the market for a new gravel bike but I think Im gonna buy a Specialized Crux frameset on sale right now.
Sorry 38cm handlebars 😂🥳
According to Canyon's site, the new Grail Rival AXS spec CF frame bike is 500g heavier than the equivalent Grizl... Canyon's site also has the same clearance for both new Grail and Grizl @ 50mm. Not a fan of headset routed cables on off-road bikes.
Don't know about the weight but I just checked the website and it says 42mm on the main page
Cheers@@davidarthur Nice to know the new Grail is UDH compliant and we have some choice between the new Grail and arguably more broadband Grizl (wider tyres, capacity for a springy stem).
are the new bars for 1 1/8 steerers? age of 1 1/4 forks is over?
Can you compare it to the Crux?
For people wondering, items are:
Frame storage bag
Tire pump/multitool
Tire repair kit with inner tube and gas canister
So, can a Iphone 12 be fitted in the storage compartment?
Damn - wish I’d seen this beauty before I ordered my disappointing and returned Endurace, and my very lovely new Trek Domane. This looks like it’d make a decent, swift and comfortable do it all road and rough terrain bike now I’m too old for chasing the PB. Love this vid David - great to see some real world riding through beautiful Britain as part of the review. Great content.
May I know why you picked the Domane and returned the Endurace?
2 things holding this bike back: 1) tire clearance 2) handlebar size not customizable. Also shimano 2x11... would wait on 12sp coming
Dull looks and paint options could also be added.
Will it fit a 45c tire?
Was about to order the Trek Domane, but the new Grail seems to do everything that bike does but then better; Grail is (A lot) lighter, cheaper, has even more inframe storage, similar clearance (slightly more even), and i would assume in terms of comfort it wouldnt be too dissimilar from the Domane either....
I've got a Domane, and I think it would probably fit more internally compared to the Grail, depending on your groupset! I have an axs groupset and have removed the Shimano battery and cable management, and I have two of the downtube storage "burritos", one going down towards the bb and the other going up. As far as weight goes, looking online at specs between the Grail and Domane in comparable models, they're pretty similar but the Domane's are dearer, in some cases a lot! Clearance wise I've seen people running 40mm on Domane's, but you couldn't with mud guards.
What Soviet ZIL truck is doing in the UK woods?
shame the lower end bikes dont have the option on the handlebar
You mentioned the tyre clearance is 42mm, but the website says the frame has clearance for 50mm tyres. Is that a typo?
I really like those handle bars. The downward sweep or really good for the wrists and the backward sweep pulls the elbows in closer to the body. Well thought through.
Yup it’s a typo and they’ve told me it’s been updated now
I like the other bike…the Seigla 😂. How are the scribe wheels?
So gravel and CX bikes have finally merged and it's now all gravel bikes from now on?
Waiting the new BMC Timemachine R review
I wonder what a ZIL military truck is doing out there in Wales ?
Actually that 9K55 rocket launcher is an even greater rarity in British woods. Maybe any kind of woods
I bet in a stiff Kansas wind, the old double decker really flew😂
Have you measured the frame clearance? Their website specs says 'Frame: Canyon Grail CF SL; Tyre Clearance: 50 mm'. But all marketing says 42mm.
That 50mm is a typo sadly
@@davidarthur They just corrected it.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Lauf Seigla as well, I see your riding partner was on one in this video - I have both bikes on my radar as my next bike. This new grail seems far more versatile in accessories, although I expect a lot less comfortable.
This or the crux? I know you're a fan of the crux
same question here :) give us brief comparison
This gravel is very cool But Tire clearance 700x42 is ridiculous... Another gravel you just can riding in summer 😢
700x45/47 is the perfect size for, all Season, all Weather and all tires's brand..
Sounds like a very sensible conclusion....I like most things about this bike, especially the storage options are great, but 42mm just doesn't cut it where I live. There are a lot of quite rocky areas where I want something more comfortable...I currently run Panaracers that come out as 46mm on my wheels...and I never have the feeling I run an unnecessarily wide tire, they roll nicely even on tarmac, so I am not sure why you would spec a gravel bike with such limited tire clearance in 2023...
I sounds very roadie for a gravel bike. I'm guessing the target market is roadies who want to dabble a little on unpaved roads? The storage solution looked well thought out.
No lugs for carriers on the front forks
Anyone know what mudguards he had on the bike in the few shots that showed them installed?
They’re Canyon’s own mudguards 👍
@@davidarthur Thanks, that'll explain why they looked so good on the bike!
And you said you didn't know 😂 50mm clearance and customizable bars and it would be mint 👌
The Bike Industry head me in a headlock sworn to secrecy sorry ;)
Every review mentions being locked into the integrated cockpit with fixed width and stem length, however, everyone is happy with how it fits them. Is it that Canyon has enough sizes that it just works if you select the right frame size? I'm concerned about the width. Seems excessive and would much prefer a 40mm. Lack of configuration choices at Canyon is a big deal. 40mm is an option, but it's extra and you get stuck with a very expensive cockpit.
I was concerned too and found the cockpit fits me perfect. Great ergonomics!
it's definitely on my short-list, but tires and non-custumizable cockpit could be a deal breaker for me
has anyone pushed the tyre size over 42? If so what tyres you using?
I own the new grail fittes with stock 40mm g one rs. At the rear i believe 42mm is the absolute limit.
i have a double-decker grail from this year and i love it as it is very versatile. but the new bike looks insane. Almost wished i waited a little longer, haha. Love how they made the bags more flush and added storage spaces. But they need to allow people to get different sizes when it comes to handlebars, this has always been this bike's issue.
I notice that the Grail, Endurace and Grizl all have have a seat stay, seat tube and top tube junction very reminiscent of the TCR. I would have thought that Canyon would have dropped the stays in search of comfort, which I guess is a trait you’d want with all three bikes. However, my TCR is a comfortable bike, and Mr Arthur says that the Grail is too so I conclude that dropped stays in general are nothing to do with comfort and are used to deliver a marginal aero gain.
Just a question, when did David reviewed a bad bike? None.
The real n+1 killer for me
UDH by any chance?
It is UDH compatible
Hi david, im wondering how tall you are as im deciding between size S and M
I’m 181cm tall on a medium if that helps
Thanks David! Enjoying your videos immensely always! Keep up the good work! I'm sharing your video.
@@davidarthurHi David, and your inside legs? Do you wish a smaller frame or is M the perfect choice for you?
Hey Gary, did you grab a M? I am also in between sizes 180cm
To answer one of your flaws, you can't put SRAM Red on a tire over 42mm. Need the WIDE version which is only produced for Force or Rival tiers at the moment.
Is it better than your Crux?
Good question, maybe I need to get my thoughts down into a video
oh now I get it, you just say 'it's the worst kept secret' at *every* new bike that comes out lol!
FEZZARI VEYO please
has it UDH?
According to SRAM's site, yes.
Still using Pressfit bottom brackets in 2023 lmao
Yeah, hard pass
Prefer that than dealing with galvanic corrosion 5 years down the track.
Agreed 100.
Grear video and bike. Shame abiut tge smaller tires and non adjustable bars.
What height are you. I'm between Canyon M/L on there website
I’m 181 and perfect on a medium - could probably handle a longer stem but don’t mind it shorter when riding off-road