After 35 years as a bicycle mechanic, I couldn't agree with you more. Sometimes if the bearings are just slightly tight I will use a cone wrench on both sides and simultaneously back them both off. This loosens them slightly, and it also locks them even more tightly against the locknuts. On the contrary, if there is just a tiny bit of play I will grab both locknuts and tighten them simultaneously. This works well for final adjustments. On cheap hubs it is often impossible to get a perfect adjustment, but such is life. Anyway, great video!
Hah genius! It takes me up to 30 min sometimes to adjust it properly! And yes, in other videos it looks so easy. I was beating myself over this! Thank you sir!
A minute amount of play (when the hub/wheel is not clamped into the frame/fork) is actually desirable with a QR hub. If the hub is adjusted for no play, it will be too tight once the QR is closed. Stein Tool makes hub vises specifically for adjusting QR cup-and-cone hubs. I use the left rear dropout as a substitute: just clamp the wheel so it sits to the left of the frame.
Great video, it is useful when the process is explained in detail and shown how it's done. I have just done my front wheel hub last night and I agree the vise came in handy. Between the knees may work but may not be as effective. Cheers Fred!
Legend - as a man that left Limerick 13 years ago for Italy, hearing your accent brought a tear to my eye. A pleasant surprise for me trying to figure out how to service my bearings 😅 brilliant video, thanks 👍
1. You can get it to work perfectly between your knees. 2. It does take a few tries. 3. You can use the cone wrench to make force, which makes it possible to work between the knees.
This is brilliant, I wish I had found this video a week ago, I have cup bearings and couldn’t understand why my front wheel wasn’t spinning smoothly, through long nights I have played with the cups and nuts to educate myself on how to tighten them correctly. I watched the whole video too and it all makes sense now, well done mate
Very tidy workbench! I always told me that it was easier to adjust bearing for a car than on a bike. Yes because I adjust bike bearings on my "knees", and it is impossible to do that for a car.
I think people mistake the thin nut for a lock nut. It's a jam nut! The locking comes from the skewer or domed nut outside the fork. This jam nut should be done up with care, leaving the right amount of play. When you finally put the wheel back in the fork, or dropouts, the real lock nuts (or skewer) will add additional force and take out the final slop. This can be tested on the bench if you make up a pair spacers (very much advised). The skewer, or nuts, should never be done up with much force at all. A wobbly wheel will almost always ruin the cones eventually. It is the best reason to support your local bike mechanic!
What a great tip. I've never thought of using the spoke as a guide and losening it in increments. Thank you so much, will use your technique from now on.
Excellent video... im 60 now and ive been restoring bikes for 45 years...your right...after a while i got the feel of knowing the right amount of tension... i finalise my cone adjustment on a bench so i can feel the play in the axle while i lock it down seems to be an art technique thing....a vice works well also..great video thank you for sharing..
Greetings from the far east, it's sunny in Singapore. This video has helped me understand how to properly tune and tighten the hub and cone spindle. Your technique is brilliant! Thank you Sir!
awesome video Fred ! cheers from east coast , Canada ! It can be hard at times but an art form in the end . The true lesson starts when you mistakenly remove the cones on both sides like a fool.
Yup that's the truth, I feel bad for ppl trying it for the first time that follow videos where they dismantle everything, u can still put it back together but difficult if your new ,it's just unnecessary frustration 🤜🤛
Easy mistake to make as a newbie hub rebuilder when you see both cones are pitted. On the plus side there is so much learning going on as you work to recenter the wheel.
I just replaced a bent axle on my ebikes wheel and used your method. My cones were tight so I made them less so but with zero play and after I gained 2mph in top speed!.
Super helpful, thanks mate. Just getting started out with doing my own bike maintenance and seeing the 'real' process instead of the shiny pro videos made much more sense. Nice one
I know exactly what you were doing, you have to have a point of references when adjusting things, I am an ex aircraft technician so I get it, but there are a lot of people watching these videos to either enjoy the repair of bikes, or, because they can’t afford to and when it goes wrong they are left pretty dejected. It might be their first time doing something and it completely destroys their confidence. Well done on a good video
Yea hate to think anyone would give up after the first try thinking they did everything right when all they needed to do was to keep at at it and try again 👍
Great explanation. Actually Sheldon Brown suggests the same method when adjusting the cup and cone bearings, clamping it into a vice so that the axle doesn't move.
I like to tighten the cone until it just contacts the bearings, back the nut off about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, install the locknut, and start from there. I try to move the cone nut 1/2 to a full "flat" on the nut. I'll have to remember using the distance between spokes. Today I put my wheel in a socket installed on a 3/8" breaker bar, and used a C-clamp on the bench to keep the axle from rotating. Pushing the tire into the wall with my stomach, while the axle is sitting in a socket gave me the third-hand I needed. Great video!
Great explanation of the process and the common problems encountered! Think I learned enough to give it a go and not expect perfection on the first try. I think your tip about using the spokes to gauge the amount of adjustment is excellent, and should help the process to successful completion sooner. Thank you for taking the time to make this video! And no, I don’t feel you came across as “throwing shade”.
I’ve done hundreds of cup and cone wheels…occasionally I’ll get it right on the first adjustment…typically 3 or 4 adjustments! I also take an old aluminum pie pan, punch a small hole in it and I place it between the vise and the axle. This way when I pull the wheel off of the axle I catch the bearings in the pie plate instead of them rolling around on the shop floor!
Wheel is wobbling mad! I love it, a Dub here. Also avoid damaging the axle threads by using an axle vice, or at least soft jaws. For a qr axle the axle vice is very useful!
G’day from Downunder Fred! Very nice video my friend and very entertaining presentation, enjoyed it immensely. My bicycle experiences back around 1960 when bikes basically has 1 gear. By the mid 60s my bike had 3 gears, an old Sturmey Archer 3speed hub which usually ended up a single speed when the selector pin broke. 😂 Anyway, a year or 2 down the track and for the passes several (15) years I’ve been looking after my grandkids’ bikes, and haven’t they changed and hasn’t the cost of things changed. Back then a wheel respoke (lacing) would cost 1 pound or $2. Sound cheap? Well back then the old boy could buy 10 schooners (15fl oz beers) 😂. Wasn’t happy if we needed wheel work done. As for bearings, we’d run ‘em til the broke the beg, borrow or otherwise obtain them. Sometimes we’d give them a kero bath then jam grease in any way we could. We never worried about brakes, they were usually one of the first things to go 😂. Mudguards, chain guard & brakes 😂. With my kids not so much, but I repaired the frames a few times welding slugs in & stuff, punctures etc. So now with the GKs, derailleur gears? Whole new world! Holy SMOKE! The eldest grandson’s bike has more bloody gears than a Mach bloody truck! And special tools! Stone the bloody crows! Anyway, a kero bath & rough enough’s good enough isn’t standard practice these days, so shortly I’ll set to and make up some stands & jigs…. Bikes, they ain’t what they used to be 😂😂😂 My Irish mate told us many years ago that the English invented english, Irish taught them how to effectively use it and the Australians destroyed it 😂😂. He would captivate a group with fact and then through his story would gradually incorporate utter bs in a factual manner, implied evidence and his reassurances. Anyway, thank you Fred for an informative and entertaining video. 👏👏👏 👋👋👋
Top drawer! Yeah, Over tight cones will disintegrate the bearing surfaces in service. It's also Well Worth checking all cones on a new bike. There's way too many bikes coming out with badly adjust cones on the wheels (or pedals!) from factory, typically too tight. I'd add that if your reconditioning a well used rear shimano hub with 8+ cassette your probably better off degreaseing & using threadlock on the right hand cone lock assembly (freehub side) this is because you can only get at the outer nut and if this backs off you will need to disassemble the lot to sort. Mostly an issue on a well used axle with shiny threads. After that fine tuning on the other side is an easier task. (found this out the hard way, damaged a nice ultegra hub when the right cone had backed off a smidge with my loaded pannier) Anyway, great video, cheers 👍🏻
THIS! is the video I've been looking for! thanks!! I'd appreciate some objective values for preload: inch * lb or NM . Probably, there's a chart somewhere that shows a generic value for the various bearing sizes.
Thank you! I am just learning the how to work on my bike. I enjoy you telling me the truth, that it is hard. Keep up the videos They definitely help me.
Brilliant video. I often wondered how these guys got it right the first time! Perhaps they didnt! Very helpful video. Holding in the bench is a great idea and backing off the cone spanner by using the spokes as a guide. Thankyou very much an love the accent! Must be Southern Ireland!!
@freds-shed Yea we took the family to Dublin for the weekend from England a few years ago. Absolutely loved it. Folk so friendly and couldn't belive some folk were speaking the Irish language or Galic I guess. Loved the Guiness from the factory!! Keep up the videos. They are brilliant and very informative. You have a wealth of knowledge! What about doing a strip and rebuild of one of your bikes!
Just knowing that I'm not crazy is a huge help. While rebuilding my latest wheel I just could not get it right and couldn't understand what I was doing wrong. When I looked at the axle closely as I was setting the lock nut you could see that the axle was moving as I was tightening it down. So frustrating. Having a vise would definitely make the whole process easier. Thanks again!@@freds-shed
ok, that one spoke method is briliant! I will try this and I guess use it for life! Thanx!! It is soo anoying to view video's where the veteran pro tells you after 25min that you have to feel for it... Oh man such a relief this video!
Ay this is awesome. I just took out my rear axel a couple days ago and I -did not- tighten the cones properly. Glad you made it clear that those cones are actually a very specific job. I figure I can get the wobble out of that axel later today! thanks man. In canada we say "throwing shade" too, I think it's kind of a gen Z slang though.
Nice bit of reality there for 'real' bikes that are thrashed by real kids etc. It was lovely to see that wheel had just a little bit of buckle/wobble. Some folks are all too protective of their bikes, just like the car fiends who polish their mobility machine every Sunday morning.
Superb video. I never get it right first time either but never use a vice. I have a vice mounted on a piece of channel so I’ll be using that from now on because I’ve never got any room on my bench to to use the bench vice. but that’s another issue. Cheers George
Good to see a variety of tool brands behind you and not "PARK TOOL BLUE" all the time . I have a variety of tool brands myself and they serve me well .
I picked all mine up over thd years ,I buy loads on Aliexpress, Ebay, Amazon etc ,the only Parktool i have is my cable cutter and i mind that likd its a child 🤜🤛
I had to work in a TREK store, and the guys there claimed they can do it between their knees. They did do that, but their results were awful. They claimed that the lower end hubs need to be tightened more, as they develop play sooner... I tried explaining to them that it is due to them overtightening them and thus making them wear faster. Using a vice was the strangest sight for them.
@@freds-shed I found that there is more to setting cones because of this methot. To get the perfect preload on the bearings you should leave a tiny bit of play when not in the frame. Once you clamp down the hub with the QR skewer, the axle will be compressed enough for the play to be removed. A QR has a force of up to 2kN! This is a more advanced level, the trek guys could not understand it at all.
Great video fella. When you have not got a vice (old skool) your knees become the vice. Its not idea but doable in a sitting position with a little patience. My advice for you regarding not doing content because a million other people have done it and you may feel you cant compete with the production quality etc... Dont let that stop you! There is enough for everyone. Do the basic videos the way you want and if people like the content and your style and learn something on the journey they will sub and like. Thats where the subs came from ;)
Great video. I never thought of using the spies as an adjustment guide. Just serviced my free hub and wheel bearings but the wheel doesn’t turn freely enough for my liking. I’ll give your advice a go. 👍🏻
Great video nothing more annoying than watching a video and they do it in one go. Life’s not like that. I have my own way of setting the bearings. It takes 5..10 goes to get them spot on. Thanks for tips
This cup and cone invention iteself was crap, so much of errors and hit and trials to make it perfect and serviceable. Pretty crap! Thanks for the video, explanation was lovely!
I'm servicing an old front wheel, nothing fancy and however I've been doing really fine tuning I find imposible to get no play without draging. I get play if I run it smooth. I'm tired of it, just gonna leave it with drag but no play.
Yea I hear ya, there is no right or wrong answer in my opinion, but the more u do it the better u get at it. or maybe we just get used to accepting it will never be perfect :)
you can do it between your knees! put 2 cone wrenches on 2 cones and just uncrew a bit. one of them will move on the thread, even if they are locked with a locknut! the question i have is this: is it better to have some play or to have slight grinding/rumbling with no play (i can still turn the axel easily with fingers, but not as easy as if there is some play)?
Personally I like as little play as possible but I am also aware that its will tighten more when fitted especially wityh Quick Release , yea I agree u can do it between the knees but I have never gotten it right on the first go like i see people do in other videos
@@freds-shed yeah, there's no way you can do it on the first go. they probably have too much play, but they just show you nicely spinning wheel. i dont think you can actually compress the axel with quick release, which would be needed to tighten cones even more. stopwatch test of spinning wheel could be done. if you make a video of it, please remember to share a link here with me :)
I really like the video! How do you feel about upgrading the bottom bracket to a 68/73 euro bb, or a bmx mid bb, and just swapping out those garbage cup and cone things all together, that in my opinion could leave you stranded? Let me know if I’m incorrect
I want a vice, but as a home mechanic I don't have the space. Maybe on the ground. But I have done 6 or 7 of those infront the tv or in the garden. And it's not easy. Doing this professional, without a vice, will be a pain and time consuming.
I’ve got a multi-angle Stanley vice, it attaches to any flat surface via a built-in G-clamp. I open the cupboard under my kitchen sink and clamp it to the worktop. It doesn’t need to be tight for a job like this.
@@nkt1 This looks useful for my situation. Thank you. I'll try and find it here. I presume it's not as big, but rather small. I'll not be using to hammer stuff, just to be my third hand.
I tighten the cone against the lock nut rather than the other way around (after setting it just too tight, only just catching the bearings / feeling notchy). That action of backing off the cone to tighten it against the lock nut being held stationary introduces just enough play in the system to allow the bearings to run freely. Often works first time. No idea how often you should grease the bearings though? any thoughts?
I actually enjoy doing my hubs. My biggest question is what bearings to get Chrome Steel, Carbon Steel or Stainless Steel and what grade G25, G10 or G3? I have Chrome Steel G25 but thinking there is a better option what is your view?
Ive spent hours trying to get my front hub just right😮 i settled on the slightest side to side movement of the tire when clamped because i want ZERO rolling resistance. Is that okay?
It should be fine, but I would check it after the first ride and regularly after that as they have a habit of loosening. if you really want the slightest rolling resistance, then set them so they are right and feel good, then hold the lock nut and squeeze try to back the cone off anti clockwise squeezing it against the locknut. You will get a fraction of movement that will loosen the cone, Its tricky but it can be done and u might damage the cone spanner as they are not designed to take force, hope that makes sense
The hub you worked on is one of the worse hubs to work on, Joy-Tech. My self when loosening a lock nut I will always if possible use a scissor action, this way I'll have better control of what I'm doing. Clamping of an axle I'll always use an axle vise, when using an axle vise you'll have less slippage and the axle vise can also be used for straighten axles as well or I will used V grooved soft jaw blocks I will have a bench vise with a rotating head meaning I will be able to rotate the head so I will be able to clamp the axle with a better position. 99.9% of the time I will never vise up bicycle parts without the use of soft jaws, this way the jaws of my vise roughly 25 years later they are still square and sharp. When over hauling low quality hubs I will never use the old carbon balls which are grade # 300 or grade # 400, I'll always rebuild with chromium grade #25 balls. When reassembling such a hub as Joy-Tech I will always add a washer in between the cone and Lock nut, when trying to finish up the bearing adjustment I will use 2 cone wrench's one on each side then I'll be backing them off the cones from the bearings, this is where the added washer will help with lessoning of the loosening of the lock nut, doing it this way It's quicker for me when finding that bearing adjustment sweet spot adjustment and I'm one of those guys that will be flip flopping the wheel on my lap. Also if I just need to do a minor bearing adjustment, if the hub is a nutted hub then you only need to remove one mounting nut, leaving the other side fixed onto the bicycle then use a thinner wrench to lock onto the lock nut and the needed cone wrench and go at it from there, I've done this 100s of times with out any problems at all and if your having a hard time finding that sweet spot adjustment then it also could be the axle, it might be bowed or bent, take the whole unit apart then roll the axle on a nice flat surface, if the axle needs straightening, this is where the V grooved soft blocks are needed, but you will need where the bend is then insert the axle to that spot then use a small cheater bar to straighten out the axle, in fact I just performed this fix last week. Also if for some reason if the bearings don't feel as smooth as you would like it to feel then it could be the use of low quality parts, maybe the bearing race of the cone and bearing races could be bad, then the races could use some polishing, this can be done with a 50/50% 50% grease and SEMI CHROME then ride 100 miles or more, then overhaul the hubs again, then the bearing race contacts should have a nice smooth bearing race then rebuild again with fresh grease. Sorry to say no AliExpress cone wrenches for me nor Park or Pedro's! I once had a sales person come into my shop 30 plus years ago and he gave me some new park wrench's to try out, on his next visit, he asked me, so what do you think about the Park cone wrench's I said, do you really want to know the truth, he said Yeah! I grabbed the bunch and right in front of him into the garbage can they went, I'll use HOZAN, TACX, SHIMANO and CAMPAGNOLO.
Just taking to my friend about this whole nailing shit the first try. Makes me feel like something is either wrong with the part im fixing or that im a knucklehead and cant take simple instructions lol😂 Just better to show the whole process for all of us simpletons😊
I prefer cup and cone bearings over cartridge bearing because of the adjustability over time and how easy they are to service and modify you can even polish the insides if you wanted too and replace the insides for ceramics for max performance ❤❤❤
u forgot a major point, which even you made the mistake of doing. if you are measuring spoke to spoke for your cone nut adjustment, you must not spin the wheel. if you are lining up with a spoke, and then spinning the wheel, you are obviously turning the cone nut. thats why it was still too tight 3 times in a row, you can see you kept spinning the wheel after moving the wrench to another spoke
Yes I understand what you are saying, however, as the axel is free to move independently it would not matter how many time you move, remove, refit or change the reposition the wheel in the vice. Every time you loosen the locknut and move the cone clockwise by one spoke you are lowering the cone position by that distance and tightening the bearings between both races
@@freds-shed the axle is clamped into the vice, no? you were inadvertently turning the cone wrench clockwise while attempting to turn it counter clockwise, because you were relying on the position of the spoke to remain the same except you were spinning the wheel a few degrees while tighting cone nut to lock nut
@@freds-shed Look at 13:50-14:00 in your video. you are attempting to loosen the cone nut by "one spoke", but as soon as you put a wrench on the locknut, you spin the whole wheel clockwise with the cone wrench, undoing any adjustment you just made. that's why it took you 3 adjustments to make any progress
@@bmxscapeand he basically said that he's only trying to illustrate the degree of adjustment and make a point. I think we all see the variables here and understand to do what he says not what he does. His point is find a reference point and use that as you go.
Please make videos on how to put together a 16 pound titanium road bicycle with Shimano Ultegra groupset. Please use quality parts that are affordable. And put links on aliexpress for where to buy the parts and the tools. It will be a high end race bike that will last a lifetime at an affordable price. Thank you.
After 35 years as a bicycle mechanic, I couldn't agree with you more. Sometimes if the bearings are just slightly tight I will use a cone wrench on both sides and simultaneously back them both off. This loosens them slightly, and it also locks them even more tightly against the locknuts. On the contrary, if there is just a tiny bit of play I will grab both locknuts and tighten them simultaneously. This works well for final adjustments. On cheap hubs it is often impossible to get a perfect adjustment, but such is life. Anyway, great video!
That's a great comment and I will do the same too 👌👍👍👍
I read about this technique on Sheldon Brown's web site. It was a battle until I understood this method. Now it's a fairly quick and reliable process.
That is a great method, requires 2x the number of spanners and also loads up the threads so be weary of wearing the threads out
Hah genius! It takes me up to 30 min sometimes to adjust it properly! And yes, in other videos it looks so easy. I was beating myself over this! Thank you sir!
A minute amount of play (when the hub/wheel is not clamped into the frame/fork) is actually desirable with a QR hub. If the hub is adjusted for no play, it will be too tight once the QR is closed. Stein Tool makes hub vises specifically for adjusting QR cup-and-cone hubs. I use the left rear dropout as a substitute: just clamp the wheel so it sits to the left of the frame.
I watched many tutos, only your is working. Your video should come from on the top of all others
@ytrew9717 Thanks my man, great feedback 👍
Great video, it is useful when the process is explained in detail and shown how it's done. I have just done my front wheel hub last night and I agree the vise came in handy. Between the knees may work but may not be as effective. Cheers Fred!
Thanks very much, I appreciate the feedback
Legend - as a man that left Limerick 13 years ago for Italy, hearing your accent brought a tear to my eye. A pleasant surprise for me trying to figure out how to service my bearings 😅 brilliant video, thanks 👍
Thanks mush 😉, good luck with serive
1. You can get it to work perfectly between your knees.
2. It does take a few tries.
3. You can use the cone wrench to make force, which makes it possible to work between the knees.
This is brilliant, I wish I had found this video a week ago, I have cup bearings and couldn’t understand why my front wheel wasn’t spinning smoothly, through long nights I have played with the cups and nuts to educate myself on how to tighten them correctly. I watched the whole video too and it all makes sense now, well done mate
Thanks 👍
Very tidy workbench! I always told me that it was easier to adjust bearing for a car than on a bike. Yes because I adjust bike bearings on my "knees", and it is impossible to do that for a car.
I think people mistake the thin nut for a lock nut. It's a jam nut! The locking comes from the skewer or domed nut outside the fork. This jam nut should be done up with care, leaving the right amount of play. When you finally put the wheel back in the fork, or dropouts, the real lock nuts (or skewer) will add additional force and take out the final slop. This can be tested on the bench if you make up a pair spacers (very much advised). The skewer, or nuts, should never be done up with much force at all. A wobbly wheel will almost always ruin the cones eventually. It is the best reason to support your local bike mechanic!
What a great tip. I've never thought of using the spoke as a guide and losening it in increments. Thank you so much, will use your technique from now on.
Thanks John, great to be able to share stuff online 👍
Excellent video... im 60 now and ive been restoring bikes for 45 years...your right...after a while i got the feel of knowing the right amount of tension... i finalise my cone adjustment on a bench so i can feel the play in the axle while i lock it down seems to be an art technique thing....a vice works well also..great video thank you for sharing..
Thank you very much ,great to get such positive feedback
Greetings from the far east, it's sunny in Singapore. This video has helped me understand how to properly tune and tighten the hub and cone spindle. Your technique is brilliant! Thank you Sir!
You are very welcome sir
Thank you. Cant wait to try this method. This adjustment was a nightmare when working on my bikes. I was never happy with the result.
awesome video Fred ! cheers from east coast , Canada ! It can be hard at times but an art form in the end . The true lesson starts when you mistakenly remove the cones on both sides like a fool.
Yup that's the truth, I feel bad for ppl trying it for the first time that follow videos where they dismantle everything, u can still put it back together but difficult if your new ,it's just unnecessary frustration 🤜🤛
Easy mistake to make as a newbie hub rebuilder when you see both cones are pitted. On the plus side there is so much learning going on as you work to recenter the wheel.
or when you squirt de greaser into the freewheel assembly and cant figure out how to get it off
thank you. it is the detail that many other, "how to" tutorials slide by, so to speak. again thank you for the detail.
I just replaced a bent axle on my ebikes wheel and used your method. My cones were tight so I made them less so but with zero play and after I gained 2mph in top speed!.
Love it , great stuff
Super helpful, thanks mate. Just getting started out with doing my own bike maintenance and seeing the 'real' process instead of the shiny pro videos made much more sense. Nice one
Thanks my man ,and best of luck on your project 👍
I know exactly what you were doing, you have to have a point of references when adjusting things, I am an ex aircraft technician so I get it, but there are a lot of people watching these videos to either enjoy the repair of bikes, or, because they can’t afford to and when it goes wrong they are left pretty dejected. It might be their first time doing something and it completely destroys their confidence.
Well done on a good video
Yea hate to think anyone would give up after the first try thinking they did everything right when all they needed to do was to keep at at it and try again 👍
Great explanation. Actually Sheldon Brown suggests the same method when adjusting the cup and cone bearings, clamping it into a vice so that the axle doesn't move.
Sheldon was an absolute legend 🙏
Years ago I destroyed a hub due to improper adjustment, this is an important video thank you.
That's very much 👍👍
I learnt the hard way too but it gave me the opportunity to replace and re lace my wheel.
I like to tighten the cone until it just contacts the bearings, back the nut off about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, install the locknut, and start from there. I try to move the cone nut 1/2 to a full "flat" on the nut. I'll have to remember using the distance between spokes. Today I put my wheel in a socket installed on a 3/8" breaker bar, and used a C-clamp on the bench to keep the axle from rotating. Pushing the tire into the wall with my stomach, while the axle is sitting in a socket gave me the third-hand I needed. Great video!
Great idea, im definatly going to give that a go 👍
You should get those aluminum jaw things for your vice, protects the axle while clamping.
Agreed, I bought them sinse
Fantastic video! Been struggling with a 50's front hub and will keep the "spoke as reference" technique in mind. Love the accent by the way :)
Thanks for the great feedback 👍
I have a bench vise but it never occurred to me to use it for this task. Genius!
Great explanation of the process and the common problems encountered! Think I learned enough to give it a go and not expect perfection on the first try. I think your tip about using the spokes to gauge the amount of adjustment is excellent, and should help the process to successful completion sooner. Thank you for taking the time to make this video! And no, I don’t feel you came across as “throwing shade”.
Thanks my man, and good luck doing yours, it will be no bother to ya
Thanks Fred, watched this twice recently I'm restoring an old steel mtb and the hubs were bone dry. This really helped with getting it right!
Great to hear that buddy 👍
I’ve done hundreds of cup and cone wheels…occasionally I’ll get it right on the first adjustment…typically 3 or 4 adjustments! I also take an old aluminum pie pan, punch a small hole in it and I place it between the vise and the axle. This way when I pull the wheel off of the axle I catch the bearings in the pie plate instead of them rolling around on the shop floor!
Love the pie pan idea ,Thanks
Thank you so much for this. Those other videos are so frustrating.
Wheel is wobbling mad! I love it, a Dub here.
Also avoid damaging the axle threads by using an axle vice, or at least soft jaws. For a qr axle the axle vice is very useful!
100% I need to get one 👌
G’day from Downunder Fred!
Very nice video my friend and very entertaining presentation, enjoyed it immensely.
My bicycle experiences back around 1960 when bikes basically has 1 gear. By the mid 60s my bike had 3 gears, an old Sturmey Archer 3speed hub which usually ended up a single speed when the selector pin broke. 😂
Anyway, a year or 2 down the track and for the passes several (15) years I’ve been looking after my grandkids’ bikes, and haven’t they changed and hasn’t the cost of things changed. Back then a wheel respoke (lacing) would cost 1 pound or $2. Sound cheap? Well back then the old boy could buy 10 schooners (15fl oz beers) 😂. Wasn’t happy if we needed wheel work done. As for bearings, we’d run ‘em til the broke the beg, borrow or otherwise obtain them. Sometimes we’d give them a kero bath then jam grease in any way we could. We never worried about brakes, they were usually one of the first things to go 😂. Mudguards, chain guard & brakes 😂.
With my kids not so much, but I repaired the frames a few times welding slugs in & stuff, punctures etc.
So now with the GKs, derailleur gears? Whole new world! Holy SMOKE! The eldest grandson’s bike has more bloody gears than a Mach bloody truck! And special tools! Stone the bloody crows!
Anyway, a kero bath & rough enough’s good enough isn’t standard practice these days, so shortly I’ll set to and make up some stands & jigs….
Bikes, they ain’t what they used to be 😂😂😂
My Irish mate told us many years ago that the English invented english, Irish taught them how to effectively use it and the Australians destroyed it 😂😂. He would captivate a group with fact and then through his story would gradually incorporate utter bs in a factual manner, implied evidence and his reassurances.
Anyway, thank you Fred for an informative and entertaining video.
👏👏👏 👋👋👋
I could read stuff like that all day long, its sad how we are living ion a throw away world, thanks for the reply fella ,that brightened my day :)
Top drawer! Yeah, Over tight cones will disintegrate the bearing surfaces in service. It's also Well Worth checking all cones on a new bike. There's way too many bikes coming out with badly adjust cones on the wheels (or pedals!) from factory, typically too tight.
I'd add that if your reconditioning a well used rear shimano hub with 8+ cassette your probably better off degreaseing & using threadlock on the right hand cone lock assembly (freehub side) this is because you can only get at the outer nut and if this backs off you will need to disassemble the lot to sort. Mostly an issue on a well used axle with shiny threads. After that fine tuning on the other side is an easier task. (found this out the hard way, damaged a nice ultegra hub when the right cone had backed off a smidge with my loaded pannier)
Anyway, great video, cheers 👍🏻
Ur 100% correct ,I definitely should br using thread lock and I couldn't agree more about checking all new bike's, I do everytime .Thanks for watching
THIS! is the video I've been looking for! thanks!! I'd appreciate some objective values for preload: inch * lb or NM . Probably, there's a chart somewhere that shows a generic value for the various bearing sizes.
Thank you! I am just learning the how to work on my bike. I enjoy you telling me the truth, that it is hard. Keep up the videos They definitely help me.
Keep it up my friend,loads to learn but nothing you can't manage 🤜🤛👍
Brilliant video. I often wondered how these guys got it right the first time! Perhaps they didnt!
Very helpful video. Holding in the bench is a great idea and backing off the cone spanner by using the spokes as a guide.
Thankyou very much an love the accent! Must be Southern Ireland!!
Thanks my man, yea im down here in Cork 👍
@freds-shed Yea we took the family to Dublin for the weekend from England a few years ago.
Absolutely loved it. Folk so friendly and couldn't belive some folk were speaking the Irish language or Galic I guess.
Loved the Guiness from the factory!!
Keep up the videos. They are brilliant and very informative. You have a wealth of knowledge!
What about doing a strip and rebuild of one of your bikes!
Great topic. I’m struggling with this right now. Not having a vise is most of the problem. Thanks for posting and sharing your knowledge!
I hope it goes well for you 👍
Just knowing that I'm not crazy is a huge help. While rebuilding my latest wheel I just could not get it right and couldn't understand what I was doing wrong. When I looked at the axle closely as I was setting the lock nut you could see that the axle was moving as I was tightening it down. So frustrating. Having a vise would definitely make the whole process easier. Thanks again!@@freds-shed
ok, that one spoke method is briliant! I will try this and I guess use it for life! Thanx!! It is soo anoying to view video's where the veteran pro tells you after 25min that you have to feel for it... Oh man such a relief this video!
What I love most about cup and cone is i don’t need to spend hundreds of dollars for (usually) proprietary tools just to install/remove bearings…
I agree, you need to have a vice! Thanks for the video, it does take a good bit of patience to get it right.
Very rewarding also 👌
Ay this is awesome. I just took out my rear axel a couple days ago and I -did not- tighten the cones properly. Glad you made it clear that those cones are actually a very specific job. I figure I can get the wobble out of that axel later today! thanks man. In canada we say "throwing shade" too, I think it's kind of a gen Z slang though.
Thanks for that comment my friend 👍
I really liked the “spoke trick” as referencepoint
Thanks Freddie,works for me 👍
Thanks nice job. Informative been doing cup and cone never did them in a vice. Wow makes it much easier. Nice job
it's a good demo of being precise and getting it optimal, not a "know it all" but just wanting to share a great technique
Thanks very much 👍
@@freds-shed it's knowledge that used to be passed along from elder to youth, how else do we expect to advance
Great video thanks.
Practical advice, loved it. Helped me out a ton!
Now I get what I was doing wrong thank you!
Your very welcome 🙏
Great video,very well explained. Will save this video for future reference. 🚴🏼 Texas 🖐🏽👍🏽
Thanks 👍
Nice bit of reality there for 'real' bikes that are thrashed by real kids etc. It was lovely to see that wheel had just a little bit of buckle/wobble.
Some folks are all too protective of their bikes, just like the car fiends who polish their mobility machine every Sunday morning.
Reuse is the name of the game 👍
Superb video. I never get it right first time either but never use a vice. I have a vice mounted on a piece of channel so I’ll be using that from now on because I’ve never got any room on my bench to to use the bench vice. but that’s another issue. Cheers George
Vise helps a lot indeed. Furthermore, I noticed that with a hub only, you can feel far better if it is binding as opposed to with the spokes and rim.
Thank you for the video. Sometimes on YT things that are hard and tedious to do are made to look deceptively simple.
Thank you a very good and interesting vloge. Thank you for your time and experience, from David in Northampton England.
Thanks David 👍
Good to see a variety of tool brands behind you and not "PARK TOOL BLUE" all the time . I have a variety of tool brands myself and they serve me well .
I picked all mine up over thd years ,I buy loads on Aliexpress, Ebay, Amazon etc ,the only Parktool i have is my cable cutter and i mind that likd its a child 🤜🤛
@@freds-shed My Park Tool cable cutters only last one year before needing replacement as they get blunt . The new ones are made in China .
Thank you. About to try it and your experience is appreciated 👍
Best of look buddy 👍
@@freds-shed Worked quite well, used the vise and the spoke by spoke refinement until it was just perfect.
Good one....always found this part of the bike a litte bit arcane but...no more'
Thanks lots'
Great video.
Thanks buddy
I had to work in a TREK store, and the guys there claimed they can do it between their knees. They did do that, but their results were awful. They claimed that the lower end hubs need to be tightened more, as they develop play sooner... I tried explaining to them that it is due to them overtightening them and thus making them wear faster. Using a vice was the strangest sight for them.
I hear what you're saying, i just like yo make my life easy 👌
@@freds-shed I found that there is more to setting cones because of this methot. To get the perfect preload on the bearings you should leave a tiny bit of play when not in the frame. Once you clamp down the hub with the QR skewer, the axle will be compressed enough for the play to be removed. A QR has a force of up to 2kN! This is a more advanced level, the trek guys could not understand it at all.
Great video fella. When you have not got a vice (old skool) your knees become the vice. Its not idea but doable in a sitting position with a little patience. My advice for you regarding not doing content because a million other people have done it and you may feel you cant compete with the production quality etc... Dont let that stop you! There is enough for everyone. Do the basic videos the way you want and if people like the content and your style and learn something on the journey they will sub and like. Thats where the subs came from ;)
Great video. I never thought of using the spies as an adjustment guide. Just serviced my free hub and wheel bearings but the wheel doesn’t turn freely enough for my liking. I’ll give your advice a go. 👍🏻
*spokes. 😅
Good luck with it buddy 👍
Thanks; it took me loads of times to get it right!
Same,but great when its done right
Great video thanks for the tip on how to adjust a front wheel with cup and cone.
Thanks Kenneth👍
Great tutorial....!
Thanks Eddie 👍
Fantastic video this is exactly what I needed to know thanks!
Thanks buddy 🙂
Do it by fingers first and do not clamp so hard so that one can adjust faster
Thx for ur video. Do more videos about anything
Top man.
Great help for the DIY 'er n "real life"👍
Thank you bro. May Jesus bless you. I need this information.
U are very welcome 🙏
Thank you! This was very helpful.
No problem,good luck with your project 👍
Great video nothing more annoying than watching a video and they do it in one go. Life’s not like that. I have my own way of setting the bearings. It takes 5..10 goes to get them spot on. Thanks for tips
Yea spot on, I get why they do it ,they want to make a good video but thats not great for ppl trying to do it for the first time 👍
This cup and cone invention iteself was crap, so much of errors and hit and trials to make it perfect and serviceable. Pretty crap!
Thanks for the video, explanation was lovely!
Great job. Really enjoyed your video and I learned alot!!! Subbed😊
Thanks very much buddy 👍
This makes more sense, having tried the other method, I think this would be more accurate, the spoke reference is ehat I will do. Thank You Sir.
I'm servicing an old front wheel, nothing fancy and however I've been doing really fine tuning I find imposible to get no play without draging. I get play if I run it smooth. I'm tired of it, just gonna leave it with drag but no play.
Yea I hear ya, there is no right or wrong answer in my opinion, but the more u do it the better u get at it. or maybe we just get used to accepting it will never be perfect :)
you can do it between your knees! put 2 cone wrenches on 2 cones and just uncrew a bit. one of them will move on the thread, even if they are locked with a locknut! the question i have is this: is it better to have some play or to have slight grinding/rumbling with no play (i can still turn the axel easily with fingers, but not as easy as if there is some play)?
Personally I like as little play as possible but I am also aware that its will tighten more when fitted especially wityh Quick Release , yea I agree u can do it between the knees but I have never gotten it right on the first go like i see people do in other videos
@@freds-shed yeah, there's no way you can do it on the first go. they probably have too much play, but they just show you nicely spinning wheel.
i dont think you can actually compress the axel with quick release, which would be needed to tighten cones even more. stopwatch test of spinning wheel could be done. if you make a video of it, please remember to share a link here with me :)
I really like the video! How do you feel about upgrading the bottom bracket to a 68/73 euro bb, or a bmx mid bb, and just swapping out those garbage cup and cone things all together, that in my opinion could leave you stranded? Let me know if I’m incorrect
It's no wonder newer hubs are going for cartridge bearings.
Excellent, thanks.
I think it would be helpful if the locknuts each had an alignment mark so you knew how they came out of the factory (both alignment marks aligned).
That would be great
Quick release hubs next? They need to be clamped in a dropout (or use washers) to get the right preload when clamped in the forks.
You are not showing what the vice is holding on to ,is it the lock nut ,? Would it be holding the axle thread ?
I want a vice, but as a home mechanic I don't have the space. Maybe on the ground.
But I have done 6 or 7 of those infront the tv or in the garden. And it's not easy. Doing this professional, without a vice, will be a pain and time consuming.
Yea ,I'm very lucky to have this workshop and I use my cheap little vice nearly every day
I’ve got a multi-angle Stanley vice, it attaches to any flat surface via a built-in G-clamp. I open the cupboard under my kitchen sink and clamp it to the worktop. It doesn’t need to be tight for a job like this.
@@nkt1 This looks useful for my situation. Thank you.
I'll try and find it here. I presume it's not as big, but rather small. I'll not be using to hammer stuff, just to be my third hand.
@@vehicle-stuff Yeah, it’s on the small side, ideal as a third hand.
will tight axle or nut on bench vice ?
I tighten the cone against the lock nut rather than the other way around (after setting it just too tight, only just catching the bearings / feeling notchy). That action of backing off the cone to tighten it against the lock nut being held stationary introduces just enough play in the system to allow the bearings to run freely. Often works first time.
No idea how often you should grease the bearings though? any thoughts?
I really like that idea ,i will do that next buddy ,thank you
I actually enjoy doing my hubs. My biggest question is what bearings to get Chrome Steel, Carbon Steel or Stainless Steel and what grade G25, G10 or G3? I have Chrome Steel G25 but thinking there is a better option what is your view?
I usually go for G25 and buy the same brand all the time , I'm not sure I will matter too much by the time they need to be changed again lol
@@freds-shed My worry is 25s damaging my hubs quicker due to lower tolerances. Have you ever tried using ceramic bearings in a cup and cone?
Is oiling required for loose bearing? if yes after how many klm
Some soft jaws to not damage the threads might be a good idea.
Likewise! Anyone who is setting the preload in one try is either under or over loading the bearings.
100% ..I find it rewarding to do it over and over again until I know it's perfect 👍
What are your thoughts about leaving a bit of play and then neutralizing it after it clamps with a qr, all for maximum spin?
Yes I do agree, I don't get a lot of quick release cup and cone to do but it would be great video for sure👍
Ive spent hours trying to get my front hub just right😮 i settled on the slightest side to side movement of the tire when clamped because i want ZERO rolling resistance. Is that okay?
It should be fine, but I would check it after the first ride and regularly after that as they have a habit of loosening. if you really want the slightest rolling resistance, then set them so they are right and feel good, then hold the lock nut and squeeze try to back the cone off anti clockwise squeezing it against the locknut. You will get a fraction of movement that will loosen the cone, Its tricky but it can be done and u might damage the cone spanner as they are not designed to take force, hope that makes sense
@@freds-shed thanks for the reply
Graunchy as hell with those knackered old bearings…. that was painful…
Hi can you make a video on truing a wheel? (no stand) thanks
The hub you worked on is one of the worse hubs to work on, Joy-Tech. My self when loosening a lock nut I will always if possible use a scissor action, this way I'll have better control of what I'm doing. Clamping of an axle I'll always use an axle vise, when using an axle vise you'll have less slippage and the axle vise can also be used for straighten axles as well or I will used V grooved soft jaw blocks I will have a bench vise with a rotating head meaning I will be able to rotate the head so I will be able to clamp the axle with a better position. 99.9% of the time I will never vise up bicycle parts without the use of soft jaws, this way the jaws of my vise roughly 25 years later they are still square and sharp. When over hauling low quality hubs I will never use the old carbon balls which are grade # 300 or grade # 400, I'll always rebuild with chromium grade #25 balls. When reassembling such a hub as Joy-Tech I will always add a washer in between the cone and Lock nut, when trying to finish up the bearing adjustment I will use 2 cone wrench's one on each side then I'll be backing them off the cones from the bearings, this is where the added washer will help with lessoning of the loosening of the lock nut, doing it this way It's quicker for me when finding that bearing adjustment sweet spot adjustment and I'm one of those guys that will be flip flopping the wheel on my lap. Also if I just need to do a minor bearing adjustment, if the hub is a nutted hub then you only need to remove one mounting nut, leaving the other side fixed onto the bicycle then use a thinner wrench to lock onto the lock nut and the needed cone wrench and go at it from there, I've done this 100s of times with out any problems at all and if your having a hard time finding that sweet spot adjustment then it also could be the axle, it might be bowed or bent, take the whole unit apart then roll the axle on a nice flat surface, if the axle needs straightening, this is where the V grooved soft blocks are needed, but you will need where the bend is then insert the axle to that spot then use a small cheater bar to straighten out the axle, in fact I just performed this fix last week. Also if for some reason if the bearings don't feel as smooth as you would like it to feel then it could be the use of low quality parts, maybe the bearing race of the cone and bearing races could be bad, then the races could use some polishing, this can be done with a 50/50% 50% grease and SEMI CHROME then ride 100 miles or more, then overhaul the hubs again, then the bearing race contacts should have a nice smooth bearing race then rebuild again with fresh grease.
Sorry to say no AliExpress cone wrenches for me nor Park or Pedro's! I once had a sales person come into my shop 30 plus years ago and he gave me some new park wrench's to try out, on his next visit, he asked me, so what do you think about the Park cone wrench's I said, do you really want to know the truth, he said Yeah! I grabbed the bunch and right in front of him into the garbage can they went, I'll use HOZAN, TACX, SHIMANO and CAMPAGNOLO.
Just taking to my friend about this whole nailing shit the first try. Makes me feel like something is either wrong with the part im fixing or that im a knucklehead and cant take simple instructions lol😂 Just better to show the whole process for all of us simpletons😊
I prefer cup and cone bearings over cartridge bearing because of the adjustability over time and how easy they are to service and modify you can even polish the insides if you wanted too and replace the insides for ceramics for max performance ❤❤❤
never in the first go
u forgot a major point, which even you made the mistake of doing. if you are measuring spoke to spoke for your cone nut adjustment, you must not spin the wheel. if you are lining up with a spoke, and then spinning the wheel, you are obviously turning the cone nut. thats why it was still too tight 3 times in a row, you can see you kept spinning the wheel after moving the wrench to another spoke
Yes I understand what you are saying, however, as the axel is free to move independently it would not matter how many time you move, remove, refit or change the reposition the wheel in the vice. Every time you loosen the locknut and move the cone clockwise by one spoke you are lowering the cone position by that distance and tightening the bearings between both races
@@freds-shed the axle is clamped into the vice, no? you were inadvertently turning the cone wrench clockwise while attempting to turn it counter clockwise, because you were relying on the position of the spoke to remain the same except you were spinning the wheel a few degrees while tighting cone nut to lock nut
@@freds-shed Look at 13:50-14:00 in your video. you are attempting to loosen the cone nut by "one spoke", but as soon as you put a wrench on the locknut, you spin the whole wheel clockwise with the cone wrench, undoing any adjustment you just made. that's why it took you 3 adjustments to make any progress
@@bmxscapeand he basically said that he's only trying to illustrate the degree of adjustment and make a point. I think we all see the variables here and understand to do what he says not what he does. His point is find a reference point and use that as you go.
@@LemonySnicket-EUC and i basically said that the way he illustrated it doesnt work
Awh this is how the limerick wans do it lol
Please make videos on how to put together a 16 pound titanium road bicycle with Shimano Ultegra groupset. Please use quality parts that are affordable. And put links on aliexpress for where to buy the parts and the tools. It will be a high end race bike that will last a lifetime at an affordable price. Thank you.
От накуя переднє колесо показувать, там і коню все понятно?!? Краще б хтось подетальну збірку заднього Parallax показав 👆
skill issue