Shimano Bike Wheel Hub Overhaul (Cup and Cone)
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2019
- This video covers the overhaul and setup of Shimano Cup and Cone hubs. It takes you through from the dismantling of the wheel, servicing of the balls and bearing surfaces, reassembly, correct setting of preload and reinstallation on the bike.
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To answer a few queries raised in the comments. There were a few people that said I should not spray degreaser into the freehub. The Shimano seal is located on the outside and free on the inside so it will run down towards the middle, although I agree if you can avoid it do so. Additionally, every time I have tried to take that seal out - it has gotten damaged. If someone knows how to do it without damaging it then please let me know.
Magnetizing of the balls - I don't think that is going to be a show stopper on this size of bearing.
Use a rounded lever to remove the seal without damage, a plastic tyre lever can be useful for this, nothing with sharp angles edges
I don't think tyre levers are thin enough
@@Hambini Instead of normal degreaser just use suspension clean (like Maxima) since it will not harm the seals anyway. I use it on all bike related stuff that needs cleaning.
I use a flat bladed screwdriver and pull carefully, no prying. It's just easier to clean behind the seal and to reinstall the BALLS. A convenience thing not a requirement. I have five XTR or DA rear hubs. Two things I do special, 1. I use two types of grease, the "official" DA grease on the BALLS. Then a silicon based grease on the seals since it's more water repellant. 2. grease on the outside of the seals for extra protection. Only killed one hub so far by tightening the cones too much when I was a noob at this 10 yrs ago.
I love you as an engineer, but you're not (yet) much of a bike mechanic!
Cotton buds are a quick and easy way of cleaning the old grease out of the cups (if you nip the end off with side cutters the old grease even gets forced up the hollow stick rather than getting pushed around).
If the axle ID is smaller than the balls you can lodge it back in the hub up to the cup to stop the balls falling through when you replace them.
I don't grease the freehub body personally, but I would grease (anti-seize) the axle/cone/locknut/end cap threads.
If you're not going to properly clean the cassette (be honest - you didn't!) then hold it together tightly on removal and you can slide all sprockets and spacers back on in one go just by lining up the narrow spline - much quicker than doing them one by one.
I'd love to make a video with you where we can rant at each other about stuff like this!
I have been overhauling and rebuilding cup-cone hubs for years. Even rebuilt some sealed cartridge systems to overcome play and drag. When dealing with cup-cone quick release hubs you have to leave some play in that adjustment. The quick release rod will compress and distort the axle-bearing adjustment. This distortion will produce drag. You can take a brand new cup-cone hub, that feels perfectly smooth with no play, close the quick release in a frame and the hub will develop significant drag. That little bit of looseness you leave at the axle, as part of the adjustment, will not be detectable at the rim when the wheel is anchored in the frame and drag is reduced.
"The quick release rod will compress and distort the axle-bearing adjustment. This distortion will produce drag" -- Didn't know about this till date.
Thanks for that tip.
Spot on, was gonna say he missed this.
This is why I went with a sealed cartridge bearings. Cup and cone is such a headache when you don't have a cone spanners and a vice.
normally yes, but not so with Shimano's digital cone adjustment design.
Maintenance tips from the guy who's never cleaned his bike 🤣
I know!
@@Hambini This is the opposite of all those GCN videos: "8 ways to improve your bike; step one - clean the bike". Well done from a fellow dirty bike advocate. But even I would have given the rims a little love before putting the wheel back on the bike.
The only part of a bike that actually needs to be kept clean is the grease in the bearings and maybe the wheel rims and brake pads.
Excessive washing just increases the risk of getting water contamination in the bearing grease and rusts steel parts like cables.
@@Ed.R I don't get much dirt on my bike but when I do, I just wipe it off with a cloth, very rarely do I use water or soap/degreaser on my bike.
If anything, that makes him better qualified! The uncleaned and neglected bike is often the one that requires the most maintenance.
Anyone else thinking... meh feels about 40nm... by an engineer?! Love it.
I want a shirt that says "a 5 yr old told me, so it must be true" and on the backside Hambini!!
I use finger position on the allen key as a torque guage. Nothing broken, nothing fallen apart.
Once you've done it you know what it feels like.
Sez a man named "boner"
Looked a bit more than 40Nm to me from the effort put in - or Hambini needs to hit the gym a bit...
@@slowerandolder It's pronounced "baahhhner".
In the bad old days, the main bearings used to be inside the flanges. As cassettes got wider and wider and the RHS bearing got further and further from the dropout we broke more and more axles at the RHS cone (keeping in mind we're still in the steel era). Then Shimano came up with the idea of putting the main bearing on the outside of the freehub ... and the axle breakages dropped to zero.
I'm feeling a little uneasy watching Hambini not swearing in his video..
No sign of the pink princess blanket either ....
Alex Goe Thats because he’s working on good stuff. Shimano’s hubs make sense, they’re simple and last a long time. They just need some love and attention!
I cuss at exceedingly simple things made difficult all the time. Its the bane of my existence! K.I.S.S. !!!
I much prefer it this way
Especially when the chain from the chain whip kept falling off. I would have said a few choice words!
I did overhaul my wheel hub two weeks ago yet I enjoyed watching every minute of this video.
I’m learning a lot and it’s fascinating. The un-rushed pace of the video makes it easy to follow. Or in the words of Hambini “fucking good” !
Thanks Hambini.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really liked your step-by-step, non-glossy work including engineering diagrams and funny use of home made nano-meter guide. My Dad was a tool and die maker and taught me to wrench. His torque meter was also "by feel". Thanks again!
That is one filthy bike.
IF only mrs Hambini was that dirty
@@Hambini she is, 🤔 oh you didn't know🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rides better like this 😎.
I'd take that over a bike that's cleaned all the time because the bearings on Hambini's bike haven't had the grease washed out of them by being washed with surface tension reducing solvents all the time. Santa Cruz actually published some results they had from their customers showing that the cleanest bikes were going through suspension bearings more quickly than the dirtiest ones. the chain is the only thing worth cleaning regularly on a bike.
peglor The best way to clean your bike is with a rag wet with some sort of cleaner. Wet rag then dry rag with some polish. My best advice is to not spray anything on the bike.
Still, I dont clean my bikes that often. Id much rather go riding!
Youre right, a clean drivetrain goes a long way to keep your bike running smooth and quiet. Over oiling is the big problem I see on roadie’s bikes all the time. MTBers seem often to have cleaner drivetrains!! If you can see oil on the outside of the chain youre doing it wrong! That oil becomes a dirt magnet which prematurely wears the entire drivetrain.
Apply just a drop to each link, work it in by riding and shifting a bunch, then thoroughly wipe ALL OIL off the outside!
I clean and lube it almost every ride and check the tires. Those are the two most important parts on the bike! Hubs are really important too. Most people neglect them because theyre dirty and hidden! Whenever I clean my bikes, the wheels come off, I check bearings. If theyre loose or gritty, they get an overhaul. It really isnt that hard or time consuming. Cup and cone bearings are smart, affordable and EASY to service with inexpensive tools! Shimano and Campy have used them a long time for a good reason.
Bearings and hubs are REALLY IMPORTANT. Its how we roll!
@5:07: There's a glitch in the Matrix
Benz Ouyang do you ever have déjà vu?
Where's the cat😎😎😎
Groundhog day.
Yes Mr Anderson 😂
I came here to say exactly this. Thank you.
If you're ever planning on washing that bike - PLEASE MAKE A VIDEO! I'm sure a lot of us would die to see it 😂
Made me laugh! Yeah, absolutely.
He should give it to GCN. They make a video about "Wash your bike!" every now and then but they usually haven't really dirty bikes available :-D
Just dip the whole thing in a diesel bath then replace all the grease and seals. Repeat every 10 years.
You forgot to mention inspecting the cones for pitting. I'd say that's one of the priorities for a cup and cone hub overhaul.
Except this is a commuter bike that has seen no love. All it's parts are going to be trashed.
@@loopie007 commuter bike with dura ace wheels that have trashed cup and cone surfaces? ouch!
It spun smooth and he probably gave them a visual. Plus I expect as they're meant to last they're probably good and any failure would be obvious. Of course, you could always try ceramic..
I was certain that once you mentioned Zipp that your normally colorful language would let rip, but it never did! Finally one of your videos I can watch when my grandkids are in the room. Thank you!
Love this video. Hands to action, methodical and precise. No swearing (no one needs a teardown here), just efficient adjustment.
Love it and yes to the advice on flat surface, I spent the better part of a night looking for a lost bearing. And I prefer coloured grease for contrast but other than that this was a beauty.
16:34 The freehub ball race cup looks damaged/cracked at the 11 O'clock position, to the right of your finger at 16:36
Personally I would clean & examine it V/closely before just "filling with grease" and replacing the bearing balls.
I'd also clean & check the balls for damage.
Much as I respect/admire your skills as an engineer, your maintenance and cleaning regimes leave a lot to be desired.
Keep up the good work. I do enjoy your videos.
One way to keep your balls from dropping everywhere is to put a towel down below to keep them from bouncing and pinging everywhere. With a latex glove and degreaser, you can roll your balls around in the palm of your hand, then use a paper towel to finish the cleanup before they go back in... or get new bearings if you see any metal flake in the old grease caused by wear. Those grease guns that fit to tubes of grease are a wonderful addition to your tool kit. Far less messy and much faster for servicing.
First time doing, I had absolutely no idea what to expect. With your video it was easy task to regrease bearings and adjust cone on Deore XT. Thank you!
It's really amazing to see how much this hub resembles my 25 year old Shimano hubs. A bit of cleaning and maintenance over the years, and they are still buttery smooth. There's nothing sexy about the cup and cone bearing design (at least any more, now that any marketing literature I had has been lost). It just gets the job done.
I think there's something quite attractive about tried, true, tested and proven! I was a machinist in a test engineering lab at NASA. Shimano hubs are probably the best value of all IF you dont ignore them. They do require more attention but it's simple and quick compared to most fancy hubs. Angular contact bearings which cup and cone hubs use, allow adjustment for preload and wear. SO, if you take care of them, they'll last much longer than a radial contact sealed cartridge bearing (most fancy, anodized, loud $$$ hubs use these) which can't be adjusted. So you tolerate wear until bearings are shot or just replace them lots. Only a very few high end hubs use angular contact cartridge bearings.
Ive got Campagnolo and Shimano loose ball hubs that are several decades old!
@@rollinrat4850 BS of the highest grade. You con't imagine how quickly i can smash out sealed bearing cartridges and smack them in on more modern hub design. The first time may be a bit difficult because they typically smack them in without greasing the seatings. But once you have done that it is far quicker then this fiddling around with loose balls and preload guessing.
@@rosomak8244 I'm still riding 45 year old Campagnolo Record hubs not only because they're smooth as silk, but because I take good care of them. Old cheap Shimano's too. I'm using decades old Chris Kings as well. These aren't going to wear out in my lifetime, not even the bearings. Ive never needed to replace one.
Never forget, we roll around on our bearings. Wanna go fast and far? Good bearings help.
Precision bearings are precision devices. DONT hammer them in. It ruins them. You drive the races into the balls which dents the races.
A good mechanic or machinist presses bearings in with a press or a threaded shaft type press. You push on the outer races or both races at the same time. Never drive in the inner race alone on a cartridge bearing. That can damage bearings.
We're not talking about department store junk here. Ive beat bb cups into cheap frames with one piece cranks using a block of wood. This is effective and proper because you're NOT beating the balls into the races. For crap bikes that's fine.
I was taught to take the time to do a thing correctly. Once you perfect your technique and procedure, only THEN try to work faster to earn more. Take pride in your work or leave it to professionals. Otherwise it's very temporary and you'll need to fix it again too soon, wasting time and money. That's unprofessional!
Smacking in' precision bearings with a hammer sounds not so professional! 😂 But be my guest. I might remove old junk with a hammer and punch because it's getting thrown in the shit can.
Home mechanics and green mechanics are often my job security. When they screw it up, we charge extra.
WOW, many thanks to show us about how dirty our hubs actully are.I do have a set of Dura Ace C40 and really wasnt aware about he cups and cones that shimano use.
Nice timing...off to clean my bikes hub now 😀
That looks like a well used bike!
I think you can see the concave wear on the braking surface of the wheel. Almost time for replacement#!
I have that exact same wheel set thanks for the video.
@hambini you would love a parts washer and a pressure washer and a clean towel. They are as awesome as some of the tools you use. The cleaning part of your video was like watching someone run a key down a Ferrari... It was just hard to watch. But of course, love your stuff. Keep being you.
Excellent video Hambini.
I'm just a home mechanic but have done this many times and offer these tips. If your drive side has a 5mm hex, you can stick an hex key in that and loosen the non-drive side. That way you would not have to remove the freehub and cassette, which would be OK in the case where there are separate wheel and freehub bearings (as in the Zipp design presented earlier in this video, but NOT as shown with Hambini's wheel here). Particularly handy for quick inspections and periodic cleanings. Also, if you're going to do a complete job nicely, it has to be a lot cleaner than this, and at the same time you can also clean and lubricate (with oil, no grease) the pawls and springs . Another tip is to set the preload while the wheel is in the frame and the QR secured (possible on Campy and some other hubs), in order to remove the most play while keeping the wheel spinning freely.
thanks. This is well done and very useful. A great long term reference
These new fangled Shimano cup and cone hubs may be different, but on their older stuff you have to pre load the bearing ever so slightly lose as the rest of the play is taken up by the QR.
Damn I thought I was bad on my bike not cleaning it, but Hambini beats me to it. I feel great, thank you! :P
Everyone using a bike as a daily commuter around the year will have the same situation as Hambini has here.
Great video. Recommend changing colour of mouse pointer to bright pink or enlarging it at least for any future videos. Thanks for taking the time to put this video together.
Great video. Very informative 👍
GREAT VIDEO. VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU.
I learned that in a quick-release hub cup-and-cone bearings should be adjusted with the tiniest bit of play as the squewer compresses the assembly slightly when it's tightened. You have to play with the adjustment to get it right but this gives you the best spinning bearing.
On a hub that uses nuts to hold the wheel in the drop-outs (cheap bikes) there shouldn't be any play as the nuts just tension the axle where it passed through the drop-out and don't compress the hub.
I read that too, I find it nonsensical; there's no way the QR can press tight enough to compress all the metal a hub is made of; I have done my hubs several times, and when I did that, leave them with a teeny tiny bit of play, they just, remain with play after the QR is on.
This is old school & it's correct on old school hubs - where the bearings on each side of the hub are held in adjustment by a cone and locknut threaded onto the axle. The QR pushes each cone/nut combo toward the center of the hub by the thread tolerance, tightening the bearing adjustment.
@@slowerandolder Old school or not, I imagine it's still the best way to adjust any cup and cone hub? The cones are threaded onto the axle in all of them. If you leave a tiny bit of play in a Shimano or Campagnolo hub, it definitely goes away when you close the QR tight. I always thought that's the best possible adjustment, and it's easy to get since you can adjust the NDS cone with the wheel in fork.
I was told the middle of the qr axle buckles a tiny bit
The Shimano directions outline that procedure. The QR compression is small; the adjustment delicate. If I am to ham handedly screw it up, I prefer slightly loose to too tight.
So Hambini shows how to overhaul DA hubs on a very dirty S5 commuter bike and people are commenting on the way he cleans his balls 😂.
Loved the vid and love the ease of service on Shimano hubs.
Hambini, probably one of a handful of people around the world who commute in ironman style.
speaking of back hubs, you can also talk about gouging problems on the nowadays top level Alloy freewheels
I have the new Dura-Ace hubs, very similar to yours but mine are the 12mm thru axle and I wonder if they are basically the same. Glad I watched this video because I will be digging into my hubs someday.
Great content and delivery as always. You need to ship your wheels to the GCN network to get washed.
14:10 I pulled off my very old and well used shimano freehub. I soaked and spun the freehub in a container of 2 stroke gasoline (outdoors !) and I could see tiny metal flakes. 2 stroke gas is like diesel, it always leaves a bit of oil behind. After I let it dry, I soaked it overnight in heavy gear oil. It seemed to be smoother afterward.
“You can probably get it from a hardware shop” almost certainly translates as “I stole this from work”?
Aero bike for commuting is ideal, that's where you really need the energy savings. Save a couple watts on a commute and that's food money saved.
Galen Kehler Haha, that's funny! I ride more as an excuse to enjoy more food!
Great video. Love it thank you
Great video coming from a pro bicycle tech myself i was going to do a how to video on replacement of the axle/bearing assembly of this exact wheel but you did a great job very detailed step-by-step 👍
I'm a fan of Shimano wheel bearings however I've always found them with what I feel is too much pre load from the factory. I'm not doubting their reason but I prefer to just take the play out and service annually. You can also buy the lower spec wheels/hubs and replace the bearings with high grade balls. Smooth as silk.
Shimano over tighten their hubs from the factory deliberately so the cups/cones/bearing bed in to each other quicker. The idea is that you run them like that for the first few hundred kms then readjust the cones so they run smooth. Which of course no one has ever done in the history of bike mechanics.
Hubs are most likely tight because they're assembled on automated machinery or very quickly by assemblers. Bike assemblers are often paid by the unit. So go figure....
We readjust the hubs on almost every new bike in my shop. Even inexpensive bicycles. Some professional mechanics actually understand machinery and take pride in a job well done!! New hubs are almost always too tight. Bad adjustment and ignorance is the way to ruin your wheels. Angular contact bearings don't 'break in'. That's just plain stupid.
Thank you this was very helpful :)
on my all bikes i retrofit the Shimano hubs with skf e2. ball bearings, my hubs are 10mm axle so i removed the cups and put 6000 on front hub and at rear 6000 at disc side using the lockring as bushing and 61900 at freehub side. removed all the cones too and add new nuts and some spacers.
the definitive end for c&c tensions and maintenance problems.
There's a discernible amount of balls being preloaded, shafts wiggled and otherwise female parts in the video. Then again it's Hambini so this is exactly what I came here for. Thumbs up!
very informative thanx for sharing.
Hambini: "Let's clean it" *makes a huuuuge mess* xD 5/5
Handy little vid 👍
Thanks, great video
"Turn it..give it a wiggle."
- Hambini, 2019
An unexpected Hambini appears
It was refreshing to get a bit of a more professional video. Keep up the good work 👍🏼
Nice video,
I need to replace the rims on this model wheel set, c35 , any recommendations ?
Thanks a lot.
What are your thoughts on bike chain maker KMC’s Titanium Nitride coated chains? It seems like the additional hardness of the chain caused by the coating would have a similar effect on the cassette and chain ring over time as ceramic ball bearings have on the softer inner and outer races.
Keep an eye on that concave breaking surface matey
What's the best practice for cleaning the non-drive side (with the balls trapped in the plastic retaining ring)? Can't take it out without removing the seal. In a pinch is spraying lots of degreaser (or even wd-40) in there, wiping it down as much as possible, and waiting for it to dry up before regreasing reasonable?
FYI if your chain tool does not wrap around and keeps falling off use the parts bin and install a longer piece of chain on the tool
I have swapped a lot of cassettes, having bikes with 9 and 10-speed setups, and only powertap hub. I find by not really overtightening the lock nut, it cones apart quite easily. This, to me, is the only advantage over the old style where the top cog was threaded on.
yeah, I hardly tighten it with any force (5-10nm) and it has never come loose.
8:00 That's torn it, You've made a clean bit!
Now you'll have to clean the whole bike.
Nigelnightmare - won’t ride as good 😁
Is Hambini's S5 named Newt?
@@DavidMulligan Aliens reference?
@@hippoace Yes.
The state of uncleanliness with which you reassembled that hub kinda hurt my soul.
16:53 I was like bruh clean that shit first
"wipe clean" ... uses a rag that's positively filthy
That bit about removing the end caps (at 8:35), I have a wheel (a PArcourse Grimpeur) that has identical looking end caps but there is only a smooth round bore inside, instead of a hex (for an allen key). There are no external flats or other obvious method for gripping the end caps. Any ideas how I might undo that setup?
I like your Facom wrench set
How about re packing a bearing. Heard people say 1/3 the volume should be grease, anymore or any less negatively effects performance. Is this a good guide or is it greese dependant?
Well done!
Could you look at some other hub designs and point out why they're good or bad, e.g. king, dt swiss, hope etc? Each brand makes claims about being great so it'd be interesting to see your take on the designs!
Josh Poat Cup and cone, loose bearing hubs will always be the best valued hubs there are. Shimano makes excellent hubs for a reasonable price. Campagnolo used to, now they're hard to get at least in the USA.
Cup and cone hubs advantages are:
1. They're adjustable for preload and wear. As bearings wear they get a little looser. Adjustability means you can keep them in perfect adjustment. Most Sealed bearing hubs don't allow this. Once bearings wear, (everything does!) you tolerate the play until it gets bad enough to require replacement.
2. Serviceability. Cup and cone hubs generally require very affordable cone wrenches. Not more expensive bearing removal and press tools like cartridges. Loose ball hubs can be overhauled in10 minutes once you've done it a few times. Very simple and straight forward.
3. Angular contact bearings. All loose ball hubs are AC. It handles 'common' rolling stresses the best unless you're worried about absolute efficiency (dumb if you don't compete) such as triathlon, time trials and ride mostly in a straight line. Cartridges bearing hubs are mostly radial contact and use bearings designed for electric motors. Hardly ideal for bikes.
If you're the sort of rider who hates maintenance or procrastinates, loose ball hubs are not for you! Neglect, (common in what our bikes roll on!) ruins their races and ironically that's why so many riders think they're crap. Its their fault!!Lazy riders are stupid and always shelling out needlessly!
If you get a sealed cartridge hub just buy DT. Parts are available everywhere and they're easy to service. Their star ratchet driver is pretty strong.
ALL CERSMIC BEARINGS ARE A SCAM, don't waste your money!
There's a few other quality hubs on the market, but I recommend Shimano, Chris King, DT or Campagnolo. In that order. That's mostly what Ive sold and built to over 30 years or so.
Most high end, blingy, noisy, expensive hubs use cheap Asian bearings. Don't fall for their bullshit marketing!
If you want the best bearing components made on earth and don't change bikes like shorts, save your money and buy Chris Kings. He is the only manufacturer that uses his own angular contact bearing design just for BICYCLES! AND manufactures them in house. Even the balls! They are preload adjustable. These bearings are SERVICEABLE, EXPENSIVE and intended to last a riders LITERAL LIFETIME. Mine have! You don't throw away these bearings if there's brains in your head! King components are an investment in long life and reliability!! King's materials, tolerances, finish and quality level are literally as good as medical devices. His driver has been tested to 800 ft/lbs of torque!These hubs are pretty simple to service with care and patience. They are so well sealed service is required only every 2 years or less unless you ride tons of miles.
I'm a career machinist, wheel builder and bike mechanic. Ive got lots of experience with incredibly expensive bearing assemblies. Ive built things that fly in the sky and space.
I'm curious as to why you opted out of replacing the balls? I always do so cause it's cheap and easy.
I missed this one. I've got an old Shimano xt wheelset I should overhaul.
You may have flushed out the freehub bearing grease when you sprayed degreaser on the drive side. I would spray a cloth with degreaser and then clean .
so, balls on the nds do not need to be taken out and cleaned along with nds cup? What is the deal with smaller (inner) pair of bearings, do they need service?
Helpful video mr Hambini. I have just one question. I followed your video steps but during the process I found that my preload screw was over tighten by the LBS that had previously performed my annual service. I managed to unscrew it but I had to wear my garden gloves to hold it in order to avoid hurting my hand. Now, after completing the full process and after screwing the preload screw with light hand force the wheel spins more smoothly. My question is: is there any chance that the previous hard tightened preload screw damaged the bearings? Thanks.
Hubs are often over tight from the factory on new bikes. Many shops don't check them when new bikes are sold. Professional shops ALWAYS check adjustments of bearings!
Riding with cones overtightened or loose could certainly make the bearings and races wear faster or even damage the races. I always put new balls in during every overhaul anyways. Good quality balls are quite inexpensive.
As long as the axle doesn't feel notchy or rough after the overhaul your hubs should be okay.
EVERYONE should learn how to inspect, adjust and overhaul their bearings. We roll around on those things!! Loose ball hubs can last a long long time IF you take good care of them. If you NEGLECT them you can damage them and they won't last nearly as long.
Bearings are pretty important for an efficient, reliable, proper functioning bicycle! We roll around on our bearings!
No princess blanket, 3/10
He's probably turning it into a mechanic's coverall?
Can you do a video about using/maintaining a bearing with a very fast grease.
Great video!! Is there any way to grease or lube the freehub body without having to by a new one, my friction and a bit of grinding seems to be coming from the freehub body it's self. My axle was also turning with the wheel. I think the extra grease helped with that though.
Remove the freehub body from the hub and remove any dust seals. Drip Triflow (a quality penetrating oil) into one end, spin it, drip more, spin more. Keep doing that until triflow comes clean out the other side. Now blow everything out with compressed air really well. Lube with freehub oil, Phil's tenacious or a lighter oil if it's pretty cold. Again, work the lube in by spinning and lubing until fresh lube comes out the other end. Keep spinning until it stops coming out much.
I recommend using way less cleaner and not spraying it. Instead get the most dirt and grease off by wiping/rubbing it off and then put cleaner on a towel or old T-shirt and clean off the tiny bits that don't come off easily. Also if I would not bother to clean my (originally) shiny Dura Ace wheels I'd go for WH-RS100 wheels and dump them after one or two winters without having to service them whatsoever :-p Love your vids!
I bet you wouldn't say that now in August 2021 when components are like gold dust...
At 0:36 he mentions there's another video for the front wheel. Anyone know where that video is?
Bring that bike over, I’ll clean it for you Hambini!
You didnt take the bearings out of the non drive side to clean... according to Park Tool, you leave just a hair of play in the preload adjustment, as squeezing the wheel in the dropouts will take out the millimeter of play.
I thought about that too, but this doesn't seem like the kind of axle that would be subject to flexing under that kind of compression.
That doesnt make sense, the presention screw cannot be moved by pushing against it
JogBird try it. Crank your quick release or axle super tight and watch how it over preloads your bearings...unless sealed bearing it wont.
Ive heard quality closed cam QRs will exert 1000lbs/sq. in. It will compress the axle and cones become closer. I dont think a thru axle does that nearly as much.
The proper method to adjust preload is to mount the wheel into frame and check for play at the rim. If theres play try adjusting again. Sometimes you get it right 1st time, other times it takes a dozen. tries. Practice makes perfect! Its worthwhile. Hubs are what we roll on. You can feel over tight preload by spinning axle with your fingers.
And this is a big part of what really sucks about most hubs with sealed bearings and no preload adjustment (most high end, blingy junk). Once the bearings wear just a little they’re compromised and wear even faster.
Some high end hubs like Campy, Chris King and Zipp have a threaded collar which allows preload to be adjusted with the wheel mounted in the frame. Thats the best and most convenient desgn. If youre gonna invest in the uber high end, get Chris King. Comparatively, everything else is a waste of money with crap for bearings that don’t last long.
Campy and Shimano make really good hubs! Loose ball, cup and cone hubs are very practical and roll fast.
Hubs are all about the bearings and drive mechanism,not the noise, # of engagements or shiny colors.
RollinRat True, Campagnolo is so easy to get spot on with hardly any faff.
People are quick to criticize Shimano hubs because they're not cartridge bearing, and the cups can be a bit prone to pitting, however the cheap Shimano hubs are probably what sour people's experiences with them. I've got some mid 90's XT "Parallax" hubs that are still perfect after 23 years, and they weren't necessarily serviced regularly, or at all.
With a flat screwdriver you take out that seal little by little until it pops out.And then you are puting it back with that end bolt ring that tightens all the sprockets but without the sprokets,then you see that the seal is going back evenly
Have you ever tried replacing the balls?
I have a N31 hub dynamo on my commuter and replacing the balls with G5 made that piece of junk run maybe even smoother than a SON. I had the hub lying around but even when you don't the monetary aspect of this upgrade is worth considering before getting yourself a super expensive hub for low drag.
So to reduce drag in these bearings, I would suggest for you to try this.
What is the lowest level Shimano hub that has this beatiful pre-load mechanism? I got pretty sick of triyng to adjust the pre-load with the cheap ones, when you have to have three hands in place to keep both the axle and the cone in place while tightening the locknut otherwise it'll just move the cone closer to the locknut.
Not bad for an engineer!!!
Love your content, love the fact that you call out brands on their bull crap!
I've learned a lot from you.
Keep up the great work!
Cheers from Montreal QC.
I see that we both use the same 40nm torque setting. 😎
The preload is best tested by rotating axle in you fingers and feeling how it turns. If the bearing is clean with undamaged races and balls, the resistance will go up smoothly and then start to cog if way too high. Cogging/roughness tells you you are too tight or the races/balls are damaged. Adjust until it feels smooth with just a little resistance. The axle should be able to spin more than 1/2 a turn when flicked. Testing with wheel spin is not so accurate as the large moment of intertia of the wheel can disguise an over tight bearing.
could you please make a video of replacing a cup in say WH-RS30R or alike?
Was the drive side race galled?
Oh man, I wish that shimano would put that type of preload system into every hub, almost every other non dura ace one is a pain to get smooth spinning with no play
With Shimano's cheaper hubs. the preload can be adjusted using the closed quick release skewer for a more accurate setting. Not sure if there is a CZcams video; it is the method taught by Barnett Bicycle Institute.
@@trekkeruss i used this method after i mod my hubs to bearings, is the best method but still a pain to adjust properly.
Yeah you need cup wrenches, and need like to use 3 at the same time; but you only have two hands, and tightening one nut loosens the other and tightens the preload as a side effect, so you basically need to be an octopus to hold things together.
@@egonzalez4294 depends. you can tighten one side very firmly (on the rear obviously the cassette side), then you can use that side to move the other side's two parts together. they tend to move together. you just watch to grab the one parts which get tighter into the direction you move them (so to tighten you grab the 2 outer parts and to loosen the two inner parts). you take 2 thick 10mm id washers, tighten the qr and check the play.
Its just not that hard. It takes patience and practice, thats all. My father taught me to overhaul hubs at 9 years old on a cheap Schwinn Stingray. If you have that much trouble you’re not doing it enough. Just let a shop do it if you’re mechanically inept.
On the construction of the Shimano Vs. cartridge bearing hubs, one fundamental difference that should be commented on is that on Shimano hubs, the axle supports the hub at each end of the axle, since the freehub is bolted to the hub, making the hub structure effectively rigid across the full width of the hub, so there is almost no bending on the axle, while on most cartridge bearing hubs, the hub bends between the hub bearings and the freehub bearings, leading to fatigue failures in the axle if the hub is being ridden hard.
Also, you can get much smoother running on cheaper Shimano MTB (And presumably road too) hubs by fitting XTR bearings instead of the ones the hub came with. In Shimano's MTB range XTR is the only rear hub they make that can take heavy use and high(ish) mileage without shitting out a freehub body every 6 months (I have an XTR on one bike that's over 10 years old with no more maintenance than a bearing adjustment every year or two - still run's smoother than a Deore with a month's use). Since the UK Shimano importer is basically useless, the easiest place I've found to get parts from is bicikli.de/shop/ - last time I got them XTR bearings were €7, XT were €4. Get part numbers by looking up the exploded diagrams of the parts on the Shimano website - that's what they're there for.
You just need to overhaul whatever hubs you've got more often. Its quick and easy.
This is why Shimano hubs often get a bad reputation. Because dummies can't be bothered to maintain their 'junk'. Dummies believe everything should last forever.
Lesser hubs may have lesser seals.
In reality, with good maintenance and proper adjustment, Shimano hubs are probably the best value on the market.
Ive got decades old XT, LX and Deore hubs that are still smooth and fast. I got a used set of XTR hubs for free that were slightly damaged because they were ignored. They're still nice fast hubs though!
Ive also got 40+ year and older Campagnolo Record and Dura Ace hubs! They just don't make em like they used to
@@rollinrat4850 I have better things to do with my time than rebuilding my hubs every 2-3 months, which his more or less what would be required to keep an XT hub running perfectly - and the freehub body will still break anyway (Freehubs breaking is a separate issue to the bearings going grindy). I put a value on my time, so I'm more than happy to spend more money to get parts that don't need minding.
This is why Marzocchi going out of business was the worst thing to ever happen in the bike industry - their open bath coil forks were genuine fit and forget items. There's literally nothing on the market now that'll work anything like as well for as long with no maintenance beyond basic cleaning.
@@peglor In several decades of hardcore mtb, Ive wrecked one freehub body from deep creek crossings.
But I hear ya there! Ive got 3 old Bomber forks that still work great. As long as I can find new seals . Bombers are the 'cockroaches' of forks! They work way better after I service them or change the oil though.
Usually, the most I service my bearings is before every winter and after every winter. This has always worked well for relatively dry Wackofornia.
On my really long distance bikepacking and touring rigs I use Chris King hubs. These are probably the highest quality hubs on earth. I used to machine and inspect medical devices and recognise this level of quality. CK recommends service maybe every other year. Whenever I do mine, they don't really need it. The first set I bought were from 1995. After over 100000 miles, they're still using the same bearings! Chris King makes awesome stuff but it comes at a price! Its a great value as far as I'm concerned because I keep riding the same custom built bikes for decades.
@@rollinrat4850 Where I am it rains for probably 9 months a year and there's mud all year around. The natural soil is mostly acidic bog, so unless a hub has good seals, the black bog water will pickle the grease out of badly sealed hubs in a few hundred miles of muddy trails.
Hope hubs are the best solution I've found for the money, because they're designed and tested in similar conditions - though their XC rims split down the centreline after about a year.
Chris Kings are supposed to be great hubs, but I don't know anyone putting high mileage on them in mud, and some of the documents I read on them when I first looked at getting one many years ago basically said they prioritised low drag over good sealing as a design decision, so I can't see myself trying an experiment that expensive.
The secondary issue with the Chris King is that the face washer freewheel mechanism is extremely sensitive to contamination because as soon as anything gets between the ratchet faces, nothing engages properly at all, so it's a lot riskier than a pawl based freewheel design in very muddy conditions.
@@rollinrat4850 I've a few sets of Fulcrum and camp wheels with cup and cone bearings, I'd like to service them but as I'm not a mechanic I'm clueless but would like to learn! Are there any tips you might have for a novice spanner user? Any Campy (and Fulcrum) specific tips that may be different from the Shimano instructions in this video?
Can you make a video about the tools that don’t suck (wrenches, ratchets,...)?
Let's start a gofundme campaign to get our dear Hambini some new blue shop towels
i have the grease that nlgi grade is 2-3 i think it between 2 and 3 i dont know will it lastlong in bicycle hub it is synthenic grease thank
Hi - Watching this to redo a cup and cone bearings on a rear hub of a Specialized Sequoia. Took it apart to find the cone on the drive side is galled. Thought it would be an easy fix with a quick trip to the bike store and a few dollars for a cone. Screw it on fuss around a bit and set to go. No luck,Specialized does not stock that part. Bike is only 1 1/2 yrs old. Looking at a new hub. Tried alot of shops and online,no solutions Even tried a machine shop but limited as it is a hardened surface. Any thoughts? Kinda Shite.
So basically get shimano wheels an your sorted.
Aerospace engineer services rear hub, you really could not get a better demo than this, golden 🙏
could you comment on whether you think that the shimano cup and cone arrangement would be improved with a cage or some such system to hold the balls apart as they rotate. surely there is power loss with a ball contrarotating against the one in front (or behind)
That is correct. The cage does create friction but it's less than the balls touching each other
Very interesting channel
I'm just doing an adjustment. Do I need to skip forward?
Sir, Apologies if i missed it, but did you remove the nds bearings? I saw you add grease to (in effect) the pre-load nut & inner race combo, but not remove and clean the nds bearings. If my eyes didnt deceive me, could you explain why you felt there was no need to do so (and new grease to the inner shoulder was enough)? Thanks again for more no-nonsense content. :)
Did you remove the seals? And if so was it easy