My FIRST DAY Back In Germany Left Me SPEECHLESS...
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- I traveled back to Germany a second time at the end of August and I spent the first day relaxing and trying some of the things I missed out on the first time... HOWEVER, I did encounter a few problems with this trip when it came to using the deutsche bahn... BUT you'll see all of that and more in THIS VIDEO! Enjoy :)
For those that are still reading: I actually have ONE MORE TRIP this year locked in for November, and I'll be visiting Hamburg and some surrounding towns and cities around this time! I know it'll be bitter cold, but I'm prepared.... TRUST ME! If there's any place you want me to visit that's close to Hamburg, let me know in the comments down below!
Apfelschorle is actually a mix of sparkeling water and apple juice, thats why it tastes not that strongly
Depends on the juice. Naturtrüb (naturally cloudy) is so much more flavorfull.
@@CarryCherry92 yeah true, I forgot about the naturtrüb one
@@CarryCherry92 But "naturtrüb" is not very common, scarcely seen at all.
He also filled half the glass with ice😂
@@nicklenz7030 Really? That's the only one I ever drink and I've had it at restaurants plenty of times. Usually Fritz Spritz or Lütts though Lütts might be more of a local thing.
It is not a delay. Deutsche Bahn is just so generous, they grant everyone extra minutes.
Seems like you had the full DB Experience. A delay, a change of formation of the wagons, a new platform. Welcome to Germany.
Right. It's not a bug, it's a feature. 😁
Yeah, since we have the VW Beetle/Käfer....😂😂😂
this would make me so mad glad i dont use DB at all lol
DB giving us side quests on a daily basis.
Schön, das du dich in unserem Land wohl fühlst, interessant Deutschland aus der Perspektive eines jungen Amerikaners zu sehen. Wünsche dir eine gute Zeit!!
Hey James, keep in mind, that when a train is expected to be 20 min late or more, your ticket is no longer bound to that train. So technically, you can just take the next, delayed train going in your direction and perhaps arrive earlier than planned, when the delay of 20+ minutes n your train is anounced early.
that statement has "when the teacher doesnt show for 30 minutes you can leave" energy :D
Also, James, if your train in Germany arrives more than one hour late from what you have booked (including the cases where you had to take a later train because the first one was canceled), you are entitled to a refund of one-quarter of your ticket price. And if it is more than two hours, it's even half of the ticket price. We just experienced this with two consecutive ICE trains from Brussels to Cologne being canceled, plus a plethora of technical problems with the train we managed to catch in Cologne after all later, resulting in a 4 hour and 50-minute delay of our arrival in Hamburg-Harburg. I put the refund request into the mail today and I'm curious how well DB will handle it.
@@tillneumann406 Can be handled a lot easier, at least in many cases - since he booked his train in advance and had paid for it, the best way would have been to simply go to the service station and ask for a "re-booking" to the next train going the same target location, or even near, like Bonn, Leverkusen or something similar, cause from there, it is just a short hop with the local public transportation to cologne and would have spared a lot of time.
You just have to know about it, but .... now you do ;-)
@@Eysenbeiss In our case, it was not that simple since no other train than the one we booked would go in our direction, and we even continued to Liège to make sure instead of getting off at BRX midi. We couldn't just take the Eurostar/Thalys instead, nor resort to a bus from Eupen and then a Flixtrain from Aachen, since neither are DB trains.
Now. Here is some real wizardry. If you have an IC or ICE Ticket and your train is late you can use your ticket to board any other train in that price range for FREE. That means if you have a connection in Mind that runs several trains with different price ranges you can pick the cheapest Ticket that is most likely to be late (talking about DB this is more then likely to happen) and use that on the train you actually meant to take. Saves a lot of bucks.
To name a bakery at the Frankfurt airport simply "traditional bakery" knowing that 99% of International travelers, who visit Germany, are told to go to a traditional bakery will go down in history of clever marketing! 😂
But for the cheese part of that dish: The next time you are in Aachen you can literally walk over to the Netherlands, the land of the cheese!
Well as a Dutch guy I have to say don't forget the French cheeses or the British or Italian and Swiss.
And also the German ones as Allgäuer or even Obatza (Camembert mixed with fresh cheese), a find cheese to a Beer (but not Kölsch😂😂😂)..
switzerland:
hold my beer....
@@spaltersar 🇨🇭 Hold my Rivella...😂😂😂 I want to Raclette...🎤🎹🎸👍🤘
@@martinkasper197geil Rivella! Ich liebe Rivella! Jedes Mal, wenn ich in der Schweiz bin, trinke ich das.
If you look at the german map you see, that all the town you visit are almost all connected, there are technically one mega city, there isnt much difference because its all the same cultural space, you need to go to different Bundesländer to see the cultural differences.
Yes, the "Ruhrpott" megaplex.
Note: any place that calls itself "Traditional Something" is LITERALLY anything but.
I was like "Oh no. Who's gonna tell him?" 😅😅😅
@@sailspo a lil piece of me knew that but i was hanging on to false hope 😂
@@JamesBray3 one should trust one's little piece way more often
@@JamesBray3 it's not that those bakeries aren't BAD it's just that there are way more traditional bakeries than e.g. Wiener Feinbäcker, and you'll definitely won't find them near train stations. That being said, you can't really go wrong with Laugengebäck, so well done!
Real traditional Bakeries are located in backalleys and are called "Bäckerei Haferkamp" or something along the lines, and they haven't been refurbished since 1965.
In regards to pizza: What Americans call "peperoni pizza" is different to what Germans call "peperoni pizza". American "peperoni" is called "peperoni salami" in German and the German "peperoni" is "chili peppers" in America (usually green ones with medium heat level). So the German "peperoni pizza" is essentially a hot veggie pizza.
Pizza Diavolo ?
@@Karl-me4mh that one is a hit or miss. Sometimes you get a pizza with chili peppers and garlic (and sometimes onions), other times you get spicy salami and chili peppers and no garlic. It really depends on the restaurant
@@m.h.6470 Aye, but still it's an option hidden behind a certain name.
If you ever visit Germany around the christmas time, I really suggest you to visit some iconic christmas markets, for example the one in Leipzig, Lübeck or Nürnberg. I've been to the Leipziger christmas market a few years ago and it is absolutly astonishing how beautiful it is.
Hamburg and Dresden are also worth it.
And also some smaller ones are worth seeing, Quedlinburg, Münster, Braunschweig, Wolfenbüttel....
@@anunearthlychild8569 Yes, you're definitely right. Thank you for adding those :)
Yes, but, ironically, for Christmas markets Cologne is also a must destination :D
@@Lucas-xe1ow So he should just visit every christmas market :D
@@anunearthlychild8569 I was in Dresden last a few days. Its breathtaking along Elbe river. I am from Braunschweig, Wolfenbüttel. Its nice but a little boring. Quedlinburg turned out very nice. Also Thale and Werningerode. I saw this after the reunification. Things looked completely different then. They did a lot there.
The best part of Spaghetti Eis is the whipped cream on the bottom, which is just a tad bit frozen. That sh*t is beyond delish! 👌🏼👌🏼
Schorle always means (apple, orange,...)juice or wine mixed with mineral water.
I notice first signs of germanizing. He reduced his voice level 😇
You really have to come to southern Germany or also check out Austria and Switzerland so you have a feeling for a different but still somewhat similar identity and vibe but for sure because of the scenery like the mountains
Best thing about spaghetti ice cream is the frozen whipped cream inside
@James Bray : If you're visiting Germany's north, don't just stop in Hamburg... further north you'll get to see the mudlands of the North Sea (Wattenmeer), Schleswig and Haithabu (an old Viking town) and Flensburg for a quick trip to Denmark
So James, wenn du in Hamburg bist, musst du unbedingt Fischbrötchen essen (Matjesbrötchen), Krabbenbrötchen , Franzbrötchen , Labskaus , Grünkohl mit Mettenden geräuchert und Kassler , Friesentorte , Beer'n, Boh'n un Speck , Steckrübeneintopf , Frikadellenbrötchen Rot Weiß , Bremer Knipp und eine Nordwestdeutsche und Niederländische Pommes spezial mit Curryketchup !
alleine vom lesen hab ich schon 2 kilo zugeleget ...aber ja, recht hast du!
alles richtig aber die fritten gibts mit joppi wenns belgische/niederländische pommes sein sollen. ist gleich n guter laden am HBF XD. / all true but the fires schould have joppy (mayo/mustard sauce with raw onions) thankfully there is a great little food truck right at hamburg central stations XD
@@elwourmo993 lieber keine Pommeskette sondern eine gewöhnliche Pommesbude Meneer ....
🙃
Die Hälfte davon ist ungenießbar und wenn ich das als Berliner sage, dann gilt das für einen US-Amerikaner unter Garantie ebenfalls.
Das ist zwar sehr ungesund aber sehr geil also krass das du das alles gesagt hast ich lebe zwar in deutschland aber das habe ich alles noch nie gegessen außer die Currywurst
Loved the little bit of solo exploration. Having a guide is always awesome und you get to some awesome spots, but I'd love to see you just randomly walk around some neighborhood finding local treasures no-one knows about too. And you're pretty safe when doing it in general, I doubt there would be any issues.
you will find flammkuchen in the south like baden-wüttemberg
Cologne is a nice city but you stayed in one "state" of Germany so it's very similar around there. Hope to see you visit some cities in east of Germany too! Leipzig, Erfurt and my beloved home city Potsdam (a day trip from Berlin) are beautiful cities. Berlin of course is worth visiting too, it's just crazy and big... Not super pretty but you find a lot of cool stuff there.
I love that you keep exploring Germany. For your next trip you should really check out some other areas, like the north and south of Germany for some different experiences.
The next time you are in Germany, you should go to Dresden. I was there once and it was insanely beautiful!
Totally agree! I am living in northern Germany but my favourite town is Dresden. So much beautiful architecture, the "Zeughaus", "Grünes Gewölbe", Garden-Palais, the Zoo, Dresdener Zwinger, the viewing list is endless. Marvelous: the "Fürstenzug" in the Old Town!
And if you have enough of walking the citiy and culture is becoming to much, the National Park Saxonian Switzerland is only one hour away and one of the greatest hiking areas of Germany!
@@24darush Und so viele nette rechte Vollpfosten, vor allem in der Neustadt ...
I love Spaghetti Eis and Johannisbeeren are amazing! As a child I always tried to convince my parents to get the Spaghetti Ice.. and Johannisbeersaft is also really delicious but very strong so its amazing with sparkling water. Its even better than Apfelschorle in my opinion.
Uhhh that's way to sour. And i like Sour myself normally very much it's a weird taste. Himbeere beste. 🤏🏻 (And citrone)
You should visit Wuppertal for the "Schwebebahn" the suspension railway, since its very close to cologne anyway :) Another city nearby worth visiting is Solingen, one nice landmark there would be "Schloss Burg" or the "Müngstener Brücke", which is germany´s highest railway bridge ^^ - Well just seen the end of the video XD Can´t wait to see you visit wuppertal in your next video!
16:30 That's called a town square, it is normal to have one in traditional towns and cities and it is often in front of or near the town hall.
Die Sache mit dem Spaghetti Eis fühle ich zu 100%!
Und deshalb gönn ich mir das jetzt gleich mal wieder.
He eat the whole Johannisbeer thing... bro thats wild....
Great Video @fabi
Flammkuchen comes from Alsace, but usually, pizzerias make them, too. It's the same dough, except with cream, bacon, onions and cheese. Have you tried Sauerbraten and Klöße (potato dumplings), or Kohlrouladen? The Johannisbeeren are called "gooseberries" in English.
Flammkuchen is bread dough not pizza dough
Nein, rote Johannisbeeren sind "red currant". Stachelbeeren sind gooseberry.
It was created by created by farmers from Alsace, Baden and the Palatinate regions.
Culture doesn't necessarily follow country borders. Mind blowing, I know.
Sandwich works perfectly fine as a German word but “Belegtes Brötchen” is the very German way to say it
I would say yes, sandwitch and Belegtes Brötchen are two different things. :D Sandwich is really just the one with American white bread.
@@anncosmooI mean, yeah that is true. But we all know that most ppl in germany, or at least the younger ones will call both sandwich
@@anncosmoo Schreiben nur Ahnungslose, die nicht mal wissen, dass der/das Sandwich aus England stammt ...
In Hessen würden wir Weck sagen
@@florianruppert1251Weck mit was druff.
Preparing the strawberry sauce is actually not complicated at all. Simply puree the strawberries with a little sugar (depending on how sweet the strawberries are) and maybe a little lemon juice, and you're done. Of course, it tastes best when made with fresh strawberries... but frozen ones also work very well.
Warte ist das wirklich Erdbeere???
😒@@chaosinfernoid9008 Es gibt ja auch Erdbeersoße, die gekocht wird und dann eher wie Marmelade/Konfitüre aussieht und schmeckt...
Abgesehen versucht James ja auch immer gerne die "Deutschen Spezialitäten" zuhause nach zu kochen / zu machen. Ich dachte, da wäre es hilfreich ihm zu erklären, wie simpel es ist, die Art Erdbeersoße herzustellen, die für Spaghetti Eis normalerweise verwendet wird.
Baumkuchen, Dresdner Stollen, Dominosteine ok, they're normally only available during autumn or winter time but you can try it, when you see it... 👍
"They make the sauce themselves" ...probably form real strawberries, no addtional flavours and probably they even made the icecream themselves. I wouldn´t be surprised ;-)
Thank you for staying open minded for cultures
the "boah echt geil bro" was so authentic👌😁 I really felt this
next time you come to cologne you have to check out Keupstraße if you haven't already. Its like the Turkish hot spot in Cologne where you will get the best Döners. The places there are real restaurants with very high standard. The skewers are self-made just like the bread. Every day fresh out of the oven. And for the weekends, when things are going on the keupstraße, they make skewers so big, you can't even put your arms around them. You smell the Keupstraße before you actually get there. The restaurants even sell their Döner just for take away because they don't want to be characterized as fast food or something cheap. I love this place and I aint gonna lie to you. there were times I ate my Döner several times a week on the keup. sometimes two times a day. hahaha. no joke. for me keup is the real deal. if you need some recommendations hit me up
Im from germany and its nice to see how you like it
I love that you are talking about the cheese. its my absolute favourit food
Plastic Strwas are forbidden in Europe/ EU. Some of the restraunts are using Paper straws. So in the most plaxes you won`t get a straw in your drink
The berries you ate with the stem is Cassis "rote Johannisbeeren" , there are also "schwarze Johannisbeeren" which is black currant in English.
Kir Royal was a favourite drink in the 1970/80s... Champagne with Creme vde Cassis (liqueur). The drink of the rich and beautiful...😂😂 It even got his own TV series about a guossip and celebrities reporter called Baby Schimmerlos...🤓 You had me laughing when you ate the whole thing with the stem..
Im german and i like how you like our stuff and thats actually funny bc this is completely normal for me but nice video❤
Lets go!can't wait any longer.💪💪💪
Welcome back to Germany! Pro Tip for going to Hamburg from a local: Don't do it in the winter months: It'll be fifty shades of grey. To be fair, it also will be "50 sog" in the summer, but slighly warmer 😉
Could not agree more, i live in Hamburg as well Mai till Oktober is ok, the rest of the year its awfull.
Hamburg weird ass nga 💀💀😂😂😂
James ist mein absoluter lieblings Ami ...ps: jetzt will ich auch ein Eis 😆
Next time check out the Eibsee on the Zugspitze. There is a Restaurant where you sit directly at the water and they have amazing Flammkuchen and Kaiserschmarrn
Haha, eating Johannisbeeren with the stem is dope bro!
Welcome back and have a nice trip!
You are eating a Spaghettieis!! A German must have 😂
Man you have to come to Switzerland. Is really great here.
Do you plan to visit the south more sometime? :) The Black Forest and the wine regions along the Rhine, or the medieval towns of Rothenburg, Dinkelsbühl etc... not that Cologne is not also beautiful, but you're really missing something 😉
I'd love to see you visit Munich or Berlin. Or maybe Trier - Germany's oldest City! I'm 100 percent sure you'd love it!
Oh yes, come to Berlin 😅
bro, you have to go to southwest germany near the french border. flammkuchen originally comes from the elsass (part of france, but was occupied during 2nd world war from the germans). black forest is a very beautiful region and besides that, very good and tasty food ;)
You have to drink a beer at the place where you stand at the end with the pink elefant. There you get an awesome selection of beers from Belgium.
U have to visit Cologne in the Wintertime when the Weihnachtsmarkt has open, they are so beautiful and had A LOT of different Foods that u only get one time a year
You're always welcome brother.
Enjoy your stays.
I love how fascinated you are of all this even though you are staying in one of the ugliest parts of the country :D Like Colone is fancy when comparing it to the Ruhrpott, which is a big cluster of many cities melted together. Hope youll leave the Bundesland and check out others. Hope you had a great time!
Flammkuchen? Yes and yes. Please try it. And not just the Original from the Alsace-Region, but if you are up for something special, try a version of that with pears and goats cheese! Cheers!
Travel tips around Hamburg: Lübeck, Schwerin, Lüneburg & die Lüneburger Heide
Yet again: great Vlog Bro! 👍🏻👌🏻
I really like/love to see how much you adore and respect our way of living in the cologne-area! Believe it or not: it WILL be a hell of a lot different in other areas around germany.
To be honest: Hamburg isn't really that much different to Cologne, so you made the perfect choice!
Berlin, Munich, Dresden/Zwickau would be a huge contrast to what you've allready experienced, for sure, without the slightest doubt!
It's up to you: if want to get the feeling that you're not welcome, well, than visit the south or east of germany. So far you came to the most free, open-minded and relaxed Cities of Germany.
It’s so cool you enjoy Germany. I hope you have a very good time.
And yes: Spaghettieis is awesome!
I bet not only the strawberry sauce was home made, but all the ice creams as well.
You should try the baked cheese rolls at the bakery. They are seriously addictive. In Cologne, on Keupstrasse, you can find the best döner kebabs, but you must have them with homemade Ayran - that's next-level flavor!
The red berries were Johannisbeeren, red currants in English.
Some information about them. I copied it because I am a lazy ass.
"Red currant (Ribes rubrum) is a member of the genus Ribes and part of the gooseberry family (Grossulariaceae). It is native to Western Europe and has long been cultivated in the United States. In the early 1900s, currants were banned in the northern United States to prevent the spread of white pine blister rust. However for most states, including Utah, the ban was lifted in 1966. Most red currant varieties are actually immune to the disease, with black currant being much more susceptible. This ban is largely the reason that consuming currants is not part of the U.S. culture, as it is in many areas of Europe."
Außerdem haben die chinesischen Einwanderer die Gojibeeren mitgebracht, die fast genauso aussehen, aber botanisch eine andere Art darstellen. Gibts aber auch in Europa schon ewig, Wolfsbeere, gemeiner Bocksdorn.
better copied than wrong explained
Johannisbeeren are red currant. I love them with sweet dishes like ice, cream of wheat etc. And of course you can make mean out of them. I grow them in my garden.
I like it a lot that you're just curious and interested. It's very charming how you explain your impressions.
Thank you a lot.
That allows maybe other views on things that are common...usual for me.
Thank you.
Next time you book a train connection from your arrival airport, use a „flex ticket“. It costs just slightly more (usually) but you can use any train on the route and don‘t have to waste precious time waiting. However, if you have a seat reservation, that will stay on your originally booked train, so you will have to look for an empty place.
Man you need to come to Munich, you would love it! Bavaria is a lot of different to the rest of Germany, just check it out. Munich is like very greenish with many parks and garden, has a huge food and beer culture. The NFL was here last year and everybody loved it! The German American Community is also like huge - many US army garrisons are stationed in the area. Moreover there are many lakes around the city area (Starnberger See, Tegernsee) and it’s very close to the Bavarian Alps, Austria and Switzerland.
Enjoy your time ,welcome back :)
It's so much fun to see you exploring places and enjoying yourself, especially as it seems to be becoming more and more natural for you to be in this familiar environment now.
By the way, what happened to your video quality, it has improved massively 😃👍
I really love your videos from Germanys, it's so interessing to see my country from your perspective
Ahhh, shit, you were in my hometown Moenchengladbach. Missed to meet you in person.
Bruh the train thing is no joke - I recently was in the western part of Austria and took a train to Switzerland that came from Germany for the first time and ofc it was delayed! Lmao
This is so much more interesting and creative than all the other mukbang channels :D
Hearing about the sweet apple juice always reminds me about a childhood trauma. We have the apple juice with added sugar in Germany as well. I once ordered a glass of apple juice at a bar when I was a child, and I didn't know they had the one with added sugar, which I had never tried before. That stuff was so sweet, disgusting is an understatement for it. I couldn't understand how you could do such a horrible thing to what was my favourite drink back then.
those berries are called redcurrant and I like them as much as blackcurrant 😄
Nice Essen. Meine Heimat. Viel Spaß. Hier gibt es schöne Ecken.
dude 11:08 HE: "wtf are theeeese" and he ate the whole thing with bush-stick 😂 that kills me man
When James tries new food, he reminds me more and more of Master Beerus
In terms of Ice-cream there's also "Schlumpfeis" (Smurf Ice) or "Blauer Engel" (Blue Angel) basically blue icecream which either tastes like bubblegum or different, more like vanilla-ish. Might be a nice experience to taste it and check which version it'll be.
The stations in Cologne and Frankfurt are notorious for Deutsche Bahn chaos.
Hey Dude, you´ve got to come to southern germany, i grew up with americans in the Heidelberg area and know how you´re thinking of the culture, food and things...i loved taking americans on a 4 countries trip on 1 day and stuff...but love to see you enjoy germany and appreciate the little things here we take 4 granted
No matter what future will be, you will always have a place in germany, youre welcome ❤
Welcome to my hometown :D Its nice to see you here !
Dein Deutsch wird jedes mal besser. Ich fänd es super dich einmal zufällig zu treffen. du musst dir auch mal unsere Wälder und Berge besuchen. Ich kommentiere extra in Deutsch da ich mir sicher bin dass du das verstehen kannst. Liebe grüße aus Deutschland
Hey mate, you have to try "Heiße Himbeere" :)
don't apologize for re-visiting Cologne! I've been 12 or 14 times - holiday and work. Twice at Christmas! Cologne & Bochum earlier in the year! Würzburg 1st week December 😊
Drinking Kölsch like a Pro. 👍Love your videos, dude, keep them coming! And you should visit Bonn some day. It's like Cologne, but much smaller. And not as dead as they say. 😉
no way! You are even closer to me than last time :D
For a good flammkuchen you have to go near the border of France...
Best flammkuchen if you ask me :)
Or go to a medieval festival!
You will love it there!
If you come to south germany, you need to try the Leberkässemel, it's delicious.
Or LKW 🚛 as we say in Swabia... LeberKäsWecken....
Wenn du in Hamburg bist steige bitte in die Bahn und fahre, für einen Tagestrip, nach Lübeck.
Hey a recommendation from someone who lives in cologne; you really have to come back to the german Weihnachtsmarkt on Heumarkt, Neumarkt and Domplatte at Christmas time. You can really try a lot of food and see a lot of german culture. I think you would enjoy it :)
I am sorry you had to visit Mönchengladbach. 😅 Hope I am gonna see some footage and adventures from my neighborhood.
You nailed the definition auf Apfelschorle😅. Schorle is a mix of sparkling water with juices
You go to Wuppertal too? Welcome in my hometown, like to see your video of the Schwebebahn and hear about you experience.
Hey James, fantastic Video!
1. That was not a "good" traditional Sandwich.
2. It would be nice if you visit some citys in eastern germany. ( Dresden or Leipzig for example )
3. "Apfelschorle" = Applejuice + sparkling water, what you got there was not only this.
4. if you order water you can say : "Still" ( Without Gas) or "Medium" ( a little bit of gas ) and "Classic" ( mostly with much gas)
5. It´s actually very normal that the sauce for icecream is made by the cafe´s itself.
6. Never use DB if you have to change you train more then one time at the track.
Thats all... I hope you enjoy germany so far.
Nobody says "with gas" ..... the real term is "carbonated" .... goes with "non" or "medium", or standard, if you don't make a choice.
@@Eysenbeiss thx..
Ich liebe Apfelschorle. Es ist so lecker und erfrischend.😍🍎
You have definitely have to go to the Klapsmühle at a Wednesday evening it will be a absolute cultural shock…
Because of the drinking culture….
I like your videos. I guess, you explored more of Germany than I as a german already did.
Have you visited a german football game even if your not interested in football the atmosphere alone makes it a crazy experience. Cologne and hamburg are the perfect places to get an amazing experience
When do you come to land of the fjords? Norway we have much to make you speechless as well
i love norway
This drink looks like naturally cloudy apple juice with sparkling water and ice. 😊
1:40 I think the bread is a pretzel plait. Braid, because it looks like a braided plait. Lye is the ingredient that makes the lye pastry what it is.
It's more like a burger bun, a bit more dense