Tearing Down the Marketplace Big Cam Cummins (Is It Salvagable?)
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- čas přidán 8. 03. 2024
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Does the radiator have cooling power to cool this engine
Hey my man just wondering did you look if you can open the washer door from the inside before you went in.
Well you got it all torn down you might as well paint the block and make it look good
if you actually manage to put this engine back together - hats off to you, man!
Your store only has small hoodies, can't order if you don't have any.
WOW! Diesel Creek fans have been blessed with TWO videos this week! Thanks Matt and thumbs UP! Have an awesome weekend everybody!
Thanks! You too!
Most of the time shims are placed under the springs to adjust spring tension. Once the valves are assembled you use a tool to test how much pressure it takes to open the valve. If the spring has a low tension you place shims under the sprigs until they are within tolerance. If too many shims are needed then the springs need replacing. I explained that to a master mechanic who was rebuilding a D8 engine after it caught fire and he told me to mind my own business, but when they started the dozer up it blew the turbo completely off the engine.
That’s what I was thinking too.
You are correct. But it could also be exactly what Matt said. Only way to tell is assemble them and check spring pressure rates.
I was thinking much the same line but, spring height has something to do with it also. Regardless, these big cam engines are pretty close to bullet proof as long as you’ve got some oil pressure and compression, and in this case not being turned up too much.
Great lesson for the shop and for life in general: just because somebody "less experienced" comes along and points out a mistake you made, doesn't mean you're being personally indicted as a trades or craftsperson--it just means you're human and you messed up. "Hey, good one new guy. Thanks!" would've led to a turbo *not* blowing up in this case. But hey, then we'd have been deprived a valuable workshop parable, so where's the fun in that? I bet that "master" mechanic paid a bit more attention to procedure after that... I'd hope so, anyway.
How is a valve having slightly less tension than specified gonna blow a turbo? Like, was it bad enough that it had basically no force and got hammered by the piston on each rev?
Folks like you who took the time to teach me about how diesels work are much appreciated. Great content, clean editing too.
The shims are added to make the assembled value hights to what they were set at at the factory. This is important, so the correct valve clearances and rocker angle and ratio can be adhered to. Also the opening pressure of the valve springs can also be set correctly.
The next time you sell at a Auction make it a Buy It Now and click the Immediate Payment Required box. Then you shouldn't get the fake bids anymore. Just make the item a fair price.
Yup, that’s my plan. I’ve got a list of stuff to sell
That's what I wound up doing. I had a string of half a dozen sales where idiots bid things up over retail cost and then never paid. I never put anything up for auction anymore, I just put a price on it and wait for it to sell. I usually underprice things because honestly I just want things to go away.
Matt ! The shims under the valve springs are to match all springs with height and tension, measuring the height of each spring before and after installation, this was done in a machine shop ! If you mixed up the springs and valves your going to start from the beginning again!
Measure gaskets/shims for lifters covers . You need to reassemble with the same thickness
probably best to start from the beginning again anyway.
OOPS!!!
Good machine shop that goes the extra mile to make it right!
I'm old enough that when I started driving and working on trucks the 220 Cummins was the big dog on the road! The big cam Cummins was a good engine up to about 400 hp. You could get more than that but you were dealing with short life on the bottom end and cracked pistons.
Matt, you’re one of the very few CZcams channels that I can go ahead and click the thumbs up on the intro. When I read Diesel Creek I automatically know it’s going to be some good content from start to finish.
I click 👍on *all* videos I watch as that is the only way I am able to show my appreciation for the entertaining and education content provided to my rapidly declining old brain. If you look at the number of Views and then the number of 👍is is a disappointing 5% to 10% of the view numbers. I don't understand why a single mouse click is so hard for those who watch the videos to provide the Content Creator a small token of their appreciation for their work. 🤷♂
Um @Mark_I_Am, do you like Green Eggs and Ham? 🤦♂ (Sorry but my primitive brain couldn't resist.) I enjoyed Mr Geisel's books 63 years ago and I got to relive that enjoyment again when I read those same books to my daughter before bed time. My only regret was that she absolutely loved _Fox in Socks_ which was a bas-turd of a tongue twister to read almost every night. Apologies for going off topic and babbling but it was some happy memories for me. I hope sir that you have a great day, week, month, year and life. 👍
Oh hell yeah. Best part of being up at 5am on a Saturday mornings is coffee and diesel creek. Got my coffee,boys. Cheers!
I'm torn....I'd say there isnt ANY good part about being up at 0500 on a SATURDAY. But you didnt say good you said best. I just really dont know what to do with that. 🤔
@Dildo_Baggins. I mean if I have to be up,no better way of waking up and enjoying the start of the day. I agree,though,waking up at 5 isn't top choice. Haha
I thought I was the only one with a cup of coffee at 5am waiting on Matt to drop a new video. You know I enjoy his channel more than anyone else cuz he’s just a humble guy that knows what he’s talkin bout!! Here’s ya ya Matt!!
You got that right
Do you burn those pig mats after they’ve been used?
This is why I enjoy your videos so much.. Simple talk, well explained for dummies like me. No scripting, no creative editing, just a man using his skills in a skillful way.. Keep doing this and you'll keep getting my thumbs! :D
Yes sir I have a tendency to gravitate towards these You Tube videos that give a good narrative of the project. Yes there are some that have some humor but also give a good presentation and yes there are some that are downright silly. This channel I like to watch as Matt gives a good presentation, and he knows how to talk to the camera which is a good point.
I love working on big ole honking engines. The biggest one I worked on YEARS ago I think was a 278 A Jimmy. (sp). The piston diameter was about 12 " if I remember correctly. Love the old stuff. Good Job Diesel Creek! Your Dad was a good teacher. You are a terrifice restorer. Love the parts washer
My dad’s a great man but he didn’t teach me hardly any of this. I’m mostly self taught.
@user-fz6vs4de9m 😮Was that engine out of a tugboat, destroyer, or a submarine?
It is critical that you measure the thickness of your cam follower cover gaskets, it is how the injection timing adjustment is set.
Sweet! Matt doesn't even have to go home now for a shower, that new washer is multi-purpose!
LMAO
Pro Tip, people who own forklifts and are surrounded by ample heavy objects don't need to hammer in or out cylinder sleeves. A small metal (something), pulled by your choice strap/chain will suck them out fast. You can also push them back in using forklift and wooden block. Just seeding ideas for the future.
That sounds sketchy. I get it, but the impact shock from hammer strikes helps to break thing loose better than brute force. Not to mention if something binds up you won’t really know it.
Ex@@erikcourtney1834
@@erikcourtney1834 Industry standard is pretty much 'beat them out w/a hammer', otherwise my actual comment as a machinist would be "never use a hammer unless you have no other option". I've never witnessed a sleeve being mechanically or hydraulically pressed/pulled be ruined. I have however had to condemn more than one block because someone w/the best of intentions had a bad day while swinging a large hammer. IMHO, all involve real pros/cons, I've never 'mucked' one up using a forklift or supported crane boom but I'm still young.
@@adf360Thank you. Sketchy, SMDH. It's a popular internet insult word these days for people that don't have experience.
Using hand tools is the best way to know how much force is necessary.
Forklifts don't give any feedback to you!
😂
i first started workin on the cummins in the 1960's mostly nh180/220/250 then i worked on the 555 & 903 v8's always been a great engine. dont make any mistakes adjust tappets & injector, dont remove the cam tappet rollers, it could alter timing.
The shims compensate for the change in valve stem height which occurs when the valves are ground and seated to their final installed height in their respective seats. The more the seat and valve are reground or machined, the more the valves stem will travel up into the guide which results in the grooves that retain the upper spring retainer and keeper to travel beyond to top face of the head. This can cause the springs to be less compressed. The shims are used to take up that dimension and if not checked then insufficient spring pressure could result one the keepers falling out in the closed position under operation. You need to keep the valves organized and matched to the where they came out as the end of the valve stems are typically faced to maintain the specific deck height to keep the rocker geometry correct after they are ground and matched to each seat.
Nice new parts washer. For those who can't afford one, a standard kitchen dishwasher works great. I got one from "The List" in the free stuff category.
When pulling out the camshaft followers, you have to have a special timing tool to reinstall with the right thickness of gaskets on the follower plate. The best thing to do with the injectors, the brass tubes in the heads, need to replace them if they are scarred. I worked on big cams for many years....big project. Good luck on it.
Many people don't know this is the only way to set the proper injector timing on an 855 Cummings. I've seen people put the wrong thickness gaskets on not knowing and can't figure out why the engine runs like crap.
hope he has a timming tool or mic the gaskets.
You will need to find the correct setting for the cam follower plates based on the engine number, the tool and proceedure will challenge you, its not easy without the manual to explain it, get a cummins one, it can be a right pain, trial and error! Check liner counterbores as the liners can and do move and wear the block, machine shop can repair back to standard, i worked for cummins for 12 years, these are good engines if done right
@@prowler2358 data plate won't do him much good here, since the engine is supposedly set up to 600+ hp. In stock configuration you are absolutely correct, but as you modify these engines you have to consider things like compression ratio and injector timing to keep from melting them down.
Reorder the gaskets/shim as per part number of each gasket/shim and you can install them with out having to reset the base timing
Don’t measure the gasket/shim as they have been compressed
I have rebuilt many different versions of the 855
I worked for Georgia Power out of high school for two years with the High Tension Line Construction Division. We had an identical Autocar, except it was 4-wheel drive. It had a Hugh B. Williams hole auger mounted on the bed. That Autocar would go anywhere on the line; it was amazing. I think the truck was 1968, but it had a huge Cat engine.
What was so impressive about that digger truck was everything. The hole auger was used to plant guy wire anchors and dig up to a 52-inch hole 12 feet deep. The really cool part was the Williams digger had a Ford 289 HO with headers pointing up with clapper covers with 4V carb. The ID tag listed 300HP. This was back in 1972.
Matt those cam covers are shimmed to get your timing measure the gaskets and put new shims back also the gasket has the thousands stamped or printed on them if you do not do that you will loose all your geometry from cam to valve lift
Need a timing tool and shim gaskets
3 sizes of them
After working at Cummins, where we manufactured and assembled that engine, be sure to get the cylinder height right, the cam follower boxes shimmed to the proper height and make sure to indicate the flywheel housing for runout 👍
I’m hoping he has a dial to check and a hold down plate 😊
Matt- Make sure to examine the shanks of the head bolts for pitting, and replace if you find any. The pitting is a break in the hardness.
I have a bunch of old cheap plastic backed rugs that were being thrown out. They're great for this type of work. Lay out a rug, your bolts don't roll away, your knees don't hurt, it absobs a little oil.
Then just pressure wash it off when you're done.
the Shims are for the proper spring high. I've see Jims machine on CZcams rebuild heads and use them to get the proper spring high.
16:00 even the dog is excited for the new tool!
Little does he know…
The EMD used a piston cooling system that had a dedicated oil pump paired with the main lube pump that fed two that supplied oil to manifolds the fed the "p" pipes that shot oil into a tapered hole in the bottom of the piston carrier that lined up at each cylinder at the bottom of the stroke
You use shims to set the assembled height of the valve springs. Many things can cause that distance to change. When you get to the reassembly phase, install the valve, retainer and keepers, then measure from the spring seat to the retainer and use shims to bring them up to spec. Shims come in .015", .030" and .060". All the springs should have that spring seat (dimpled backing plate) to keep them centered. You should also measure the springs at the assembled height and make sure they have enough seat pressure. You can make a poorman's spring tester with a bathroom scale and an arbor press or even a drill press.
Man Matt it’s so good to see you enjoying your new shop. You’ve earned it between working in you little shop at you house and out in the elements there . Can’t wait to see you install the wood boiler for your floor. Thank you so much for two videos this week . I look forward to your videos. Think you for letting us follow you along. Hope you and your wife have a blessed day!
That new work bench you made is freaking sweet! The new parts washer is a nice addition as well and I'm happy to see your old one go to a good home.
The whole reason for shims under the valve springs is to achieve the correct installed height of the spring. The reason they are different is that there are variations in how much wear the valve seats have in relation to one another.
The 4x4 liner removal method: A good workout and kindling- all in one easy operation.
If only a fella had an overhead crane for all the heavy lifting. Always great to see a new upload. Waiting patiently for the Crane install.
He’s gonna wish He had installed that crane Before he filled that shop with projects …..
I've rebuilt only one diesel engine in my short time as a diesel mechanic and it was a very large piece of metal. It was in a Ford L-9000 dump truck and there was nothing on it that was light, so Matt if anyone calls you a wimp for gettin the floor jack to help with gettin that head removed then they've never picked one up for sure. I hated mechanic work then and I still do to this day but I will still get my hands greasy if I have to. Love your content Matt! Keep'em coming.
Yes sir the crankshaft in that engine can be as heavy as a complete automotive engine, and of course everything is larger. If your tool infrastructure is geared towards automotive engines then you can be in for a shock when you fool with these big diesels.
Not sure how far along you are on the project now, but I'll offer a few pieces of info I've gathered on these engines. Make sure to get your cam followers shimmed correctly for the engine setup you have (injectors, compression ratio, turbo and how you have your PT pump setup will influence this). The second is with the PT pump itself, there are different sizes of gears, 3/4", 1" and 1 1/4", picking which size depends mostly on how you drive. If you drive a Cummins like its supposed to (high rpms) the smaller pump will be fine, but if you want lower end lugging power, the larger pumps are a good option, just make sure you have a pyrometer to keep an eye on egts if you go this route. I'm not sure how familiar your buddy is with these engines in non stock configuration, but if he isn't, find someone that is that can walk you through all the ins and outs of setting one up correctly, otherwise the engine won't have a long life.
I remember back in the day for you it was brake clean in the dirt to clean parts big step up congratulations
Nice to be young … if I swung that hammer like that now, I’d be in the emergency room :) Changed struts /shocks on my Jetta yesterday and it almost killed me. WATCHING Matt do it is much better -
Agree.
Repairs to the old beaters, I enjoyed the battle, the savings and the education. Now I pay n pay lol
I just let the apprentice swing the hammer. "Bet you can't get this pin out". Works every time😂😂
Matt needs to hire a Pakistani to swing that hammer…
🤣🤣 I'm a retired diesel mech and I also used to change Sunstrand pumps and motors alone in confined spaces usually underground . I can't believe how strong I was as a young man because I certainly cannot do any heavy work any more
Hey Matt. It looks like whoever built that engine loved silicone, and you see how it’s in the oil cooler, and the coolant passage. You’re doing right taking all the plugs out of the block and cleaning it really well. I would also consider replacing those piston cooling nozzles, or at least cleaning and verifying their spray pattern. I’ve never touch a Cummins before, but I’d imagine they’re just tubes with orifices in the end. If that silicone got in there, it won’t cool and/or lubricate the piston pack. That may even be why number one liner was scored.
As a silicone user, it's pretty amazing how a few mistakes in application can show up in pickup screens. A former employer taught me how to apply silicone "correctly". Dab it on your finger and Thompson and apply to the gasket by pulling it between the 2 fingers. Generally less is more.
They're a plastic tube that goes in through the block side on these. When he was beating out the liners, you could see the white plastic.
Very much with you on it being wise to change them, and very much agree that a poor sprayer can create scoring. Especially in a turned-up engine.
Nice! Can’t wait to see part 2! Keep it up Matt!
Um the cam covers / follower covers, the gasket thickness controls the advance of the.valves ,injection,recommend you save the old gaskets - Cummins call them shims - don’t guess,critical setting:
I just ordered a bunch of swag for my son William for his birthday on April 14. He is an Autistic will be 13 year old who adores all of your content . Thank you Matt .
Nice trick with the valve springs. Great to watch you working on the old motor.
Never suspected any damage in any of the cylinders, there isn't a way into them from the oil passages, but it is good that you took apart the heat exchanger, those bits were not helping the engine cool any. Always hit the thumbs up Matt, usually during the intro. Love your channel, and I'll back you up in front of anyone that wants to talk trash about your methods, I can tell you want things done correctly. Sometimes you go overkill on safety and all that, but that's ok.
normally with used parts, you want to put the bits back together in the same order as they were when you took it apart, so the wear on the moving parts match up, but in an engine there ideally shouldn't be any difference in how all the parts are worn. As long as it's not something like a high performance racing engine, it really shouldn't make much difference if it goes back together in the same order
I was going to ask Matt about that glad you gave the explanation here.
The counter bore is a mistake of depth when they mill the valve guide to remove it or It's maybe also that the spring damaged the head surface ,so they had to mill flat and compensate for the difference in depth.
They shim in any case to get the spring tension back up,springs have a specified length,wich dictates a given tension.
Great job Matt. I can't wait to see that truck with a new engine in it.
You and me both!
And here it is ladies and gentlemen! Big Cam teardown! Right on Matt! Does your new Temco washer come with an oil skimmer? It will prolong the life of the cleaning solution and reduce bad odours.
It does!
I like how you are going the distance with the rebuild
great job! Glad you got the parts cleaner. Got to keep up with the Jones (C&C).
😂
A 6-71 and big cam Cummins were the first engines I did in diesel school. Good stuff Matt.
And now I can enjoy my coffee this morning. Appreciate the videos!
Another great video, absolutely loved it!
Nice parts washer, that should help out a lot. Setting here watching and the thought occurred to me just how far you have come and how that progress is allowing you to do so much more and with more comfort and ease. The single, and I my estimation, best improvement you have made is that shop, beautiful building that is allowing you to not be bound by weather and seasons in your efforts to rescue older equipment. Looking forward to the overhead crane installation in the future, however far down the road that will be, that will be one of those” wished I could have gotten to it sooner” moments. Thanks for the update, appreciate your effort in recording these videos Mat.
Matt , just a ideal,when you start to rebuild that engine, get it off the floor ! Better for your back and makes work almost enjoyable !
yup, he has a heavy-duty table
Yep was thinking the same thing. I picked up a heavy duty industrial scissor lift table at auction cheap since it was old and 3 phase operation. Sometimes that stuff can be had way cheaper than the smaller single phase ones since Joe Homeowner will pass on it. Run it with a Chinesium drive with single phase 240V input and converts to 3 phase output. Works great. If a unit was 480V will also have to move some wiring on the internal controls transformer(s) and pump wiring to low voltage setting and maybe a fuse change but easy enough to do.
I have never seen a tear down of an engine like that. I am looking forward to seeing the build-up of it. Thank you for sharing ! 😊
Thanks for watching!
Check out kt3406e he does cat engines
Slung a rod in my 400 big cam...welded the block and witha sleeve. Welded up the cranck then machined it to match the rest new rod piston she was rebuilt and now running. Aint had no issues running for a year now tough old gal.
Always an educational video. Thanks, Matt, keep up the great work. Love the show😊
Saturday noon vids are the best 👌🏻
LOVIN' this teardown/build!! Thanks for the vids!
And I remember myself complaining about replacing a 50 year old kitchen faucet. Well, just remembering where I put all those parts would overwhelm me..
It does matter where the rocker boxes go , those gaskets are shims and that helps fuel timing, and if your planning on reusing the cam then I would put them back in the same order..
Thanks! Good cleanup and nice parts washer!
Thanks so much!
I love ur videos man ur my inspiration bro ur the one that has inspired me to be a diesel tractor mechanic thank you so much bro I really appreciate you and I have learned so much from your videos I look up to you bro I hope i can be like you one day
Excelent job Matt!!
Good afternoon from France.Love a Diesel Creek video
14:47 Ricky would be proud.
Hey matt another great video to watch thanh you. YOURRRRR SUCHA CLEVER MAN
I really like your DIY working man overhauls. After investing your own muscle and sweat, hearing the thing run afterwards is very satisfying. You might consider a flash rust inhibitor solution for your new parts washer. It prevents oxidation in all those areas you can't reach.
I have two trucks (M923A1) with these 855’s. Gutless but reliable and able to start in all temperatures.
Videos like this is why I watch Diesel Creek. So informative and well done!
Very cool.... love getting to see a big engine come apart - thanks!
The parts washer , worth its weight in gold! That machine is gonna be an invaluable tool for your shop Matt!👍🇨🇦
Matt Delivered 2 videos in one week! My man!
What an awesome engine. Me, I haven't restored anything bigger than a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine. I'm impresed over all the different skills that you show on your channel. Really impressed.
Schweet! (Imitating Matt, imitating Scrappy Sam 😊) . Thanks for the video!
Been waiting for years to see you do a major rebuild…….. well done….. love it.
The rebuild is always more fun, looking forward to it ! Nice upgrade with that parts washer !!
Im glad to see a project progress.
Can't wait for more of this, been enjoying DC over the last few months
@15:52 Even the boss came to see what you got :D
That hard tail vise looks massive on that table. That’s not an everyday tool but when you need it, man is it nice to have!
Oh I use it everyday lol. Might not need to be that big everyday but it works perfect anyhow
I was thinking the same thing. HUUUUUUUGGEEE
Like the old saying goes “it’s better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it”.
glad to see you working on the stuff you already have
This makes my back hurt just watching. lol Good stuff. That block reminds me of a bigger ford 300.
I just finished a rebuild on an n14 this week. Its cool to see you doing this engine. A good source for parts on those engines is pai.
Good Day Matt, from GBL-The Ole Church 5 Acre Homestead! That’s a GREAT Truck🚛🚚🛻
Things must be serious, Matt had to take his hat off ! Another brilliant video, carn't wait for the reassemble and hearing the engine fire up !
Great job, great explanation of what is what, keep up what you are doing, restoring old what ever and make it run again, stay safe ( from Canada )
Yay, another diesel creek video.
Thanks Matt
Great way to start my Saturday!
bro, so happy to see you doing well enough to be able to get new tools and stuff. started watching you way before the youtube bucks kicked in.
I appreciate that! I like to re invest in the channel and things that help me work faster and make better content
Big thumbs up. Masterful work Matt.
I am completely impressed...you bought something brand spanking new...a new parts washer. You seem to be trying to finish a project...again completly impressed. Thumbs up for sure.
Nice KT3406e uploaded again, wait. It's Diesel Creek! Let's go!
Lol
100%👍
Great show Matt, I really enjoy watching your channel. this rebuild is fascinating thanks for sharing I can't wait to see the next video.
Glad, u are doing full tear down
It amazing how similar this engine is to the 30s model H.I worked on a lot of them from 40 and 50s era. Basic stuff in the same area. Worled a lot on the od Single and doubke disc injector pumps those thing could be a pain if the disc go scratched or run dry. The pt pump was a dream converted many disc pumps to pt pumps .Keep up the good work love to see this kind of stuff.Oh i was grown and out of the house when this truck was built.We had a couple of constructors from the mid 70s we used in Railroad Salvage work cleaning up derailments.
Yeah, you've been around awhile. The H was a 2-Valve head engine with5-1/8" bore and this one is an NH, or 4-valve head and 5-1/2" bore. The single and double disc pumps were gone by the time I started.
Brother, you have been working like crazy lately, chapeau😂
Your new parts washer looks like a mini version of the Mart washer our engine rebuild area had , we could wash a EMD 16 cylinder engine block in this machine.
Awesome Matt nice to see you getting some new Stuff you work so hard with great videos
since this truck will eventually be used for longer road trips i'd recommend doing a little interior work to sound "proof" and adding a more comfortable seat. Junkyard digs made a video here recently where he did it on a budget so that could be of use to you too. happy wrenching!
Already in the works 😎
@@DieselCreek Glad to know! Just finished the episode and am already ready for the next! enjoying the series alot lol