Drinker's Chasers - Will The Punisher Return, And Will It Suck?
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- In this clip from Open Bar 35, we talk with former Marvel Punisher author Mike Baron about his thoughts on the character and its adaptations, and whether Frank Castle can even exist for "modern audiences".
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We are to the point that Marvel actors had to reassure fans that “There is still quality control”.
Just sad
i do quality control everytime i take a dump too 😁
She-Hulk proved that to the contrary. I sometimes wonder about the actors. After all, they are hired help forced to promote and state whatever lies told to them. They do that to keep the money flowing in. I understand it to a point.
However, Mark Ruffalo? Absolutely not. He's one of those Marvel actors that should just keep his mouth shut.
Get David Fincher and make him MCU Boss and have him get some actual writers and filmmaker's that are not hacks who have interesting visions and get rid of this "noones ever really gone shit" and make some unique well written films that are different from each other and not cardboard cutouts. Also Pepper Pots head in a box.
The real question is if fans are dumb enough to trust the actor getting paid millions of dollars regardless if their film/show is good or not
James Cameron: "I was tired of fetishising gun violence"
Drinker: "you invented the pulse rifle"
James Cameron: Man who hates men.
Hellyweird empowers women.
'Woman' (masculinized, gaunt, androgyn Ellen Ripley, who acts like a bull dyke, throughout the film...) never judged for wanting to use guns. It's not the violence. It's not the weapons.
It's pure misogyny.
Which is based on female envy as a double standard wanting what you hate others having, naturally.
And everyone knows it.
fun fact: several militaries tried out the steadicam arm mount for the big guns after that film.... seriously!
@@themittonmethod1243
The M240 is a viciously heavy weapon, the M249, not so much. The derived Mk.46/.68 (titanium parts) more or less liveable.
The big driver at the moment is ammunition weight and the Aliens guns partly (carriage of 99 rounds in the box mag shown on the M41 Pulse Rifle is ridiculous) solve this with caseless.
The M56 Smart Gun takes another approach to ammunition weight conservancy and that is an automatic. sensor-linked, smart trigger which appears to fire as the muzzle line passes over a target LOS, in a fashion similar to the Tracking Point sight.
The armature is then a control frame for the weapons systems to stabilize the muzzle reference sensor to whatever sensor is on the HMCS or the gun. It's never made clear, beyond being modeled on the AH-64 Apache IHADSS, which does neither.
The weapon itself is built on an _extended_ MG-42 GPMG which is some 5-5.5ft long. And this is...hard to justify.
If you want a long barrel weapon which is compatible with room clearing (the M56 is clearly _not_), then push the smart trigger forward, over the barrel, and employ a bullpup design if not a full-on belt feed.
Most LMG/SAW are employed prone or behind cover, to hide/shield the gunner until it comes time to service the beaten zone.
Standing shooters and gunfu ballet is only really practical if you have some kind of exo skeletal system. Both to rigidly lock the mount to a frame whose weight is on the hips and down to the ground (off the shoulders/spine), via the exo-legs. And to allow rapid running on those legs via powered strides.
Fighting upright in an explosives and autofire dominated battlefield is actually a pretty good idea, provided you have significant body armor. But you do have to be able to move. And keep up with riflemen, inside buildings, going up stairs etc.
The point of a remoted gun would be to follow a laser pointer and lay some serious suppressive fire while keeping the muzzle line away from your face (people shoot at muzzle twinkle) and firing _through and armored casemate_ type turret.
If the gun has a shield on it, it protects the forearm controlling/supporting it, albeit at a serious weight penalty.
Assuming your body is carrying its own PBA, then the rounds which come thru the shield will be slowed enough to stop on the SAPI and, while perhaps wounded, the arm will not be aligned with center mass/face.
But the gun will still be accurate (from waist level) in terms of the hand orienting the laser pointer as much as the stabilized gun follower which can still protrude the muzzle/foregrip, well beyond the gunshield.
The M56 was an interesting idea, for 1986 film tech. But you needed to have someone with a bit more knowledge of weapons systems and the imagination to integrate the armature with something like the power loader Ripley uses, later on, to defeat the Queen.
It is the load bearing capacity and powered movement assist of the exoskeleton which will make all of this practical.
Today, Hellyweird would undoubtedly do this with CGI. And that is where it would all break down, because it's better if it's genuinely mechanical and 'real' in it's articulated operation.
Yes, and he's tired of inventing things like pulse rifles. People change.
@@jasontorrens626 you miss the point
It's how he acts all high and mighty over it, when all he has now comes from it.
Correct take on B v S , it took nearly 50 years of shared stories for the two to fall out . In the movie they were enemies immediately.
I still love BVS.
the depiction of the Batman and Superman first meeting was not the reason BvS sucked. it suffered the same itis as previous superhero movies in that they tried to pack too much into the movie and it was a bloated mess. There have been plenty of adaptations where Supes and Bats met and werent automatically superfriends. hell the Superman animated series had a three part pilot episode where they were immediately at odds called Worlds Finest. Just replace faux doomsday with the Joker and that 3 parter was essentially BvS but better written and better paced. it didnt even need a shitty Martha moment.
@@Shiirow well, you're right it wasn't the only reason that it sucked
@@Shiirow Producers screwed the movie but I still love The Ultimate Edition
God I hope not. I love John Bernthal as Punisher, but Daredevil being in She-Hulk is more than enough
its going to be destroyed and so will Daredevil .. sad .. Netflix Marvel legacy lives on ...
In fact, I don't think we'll even have to see the rest of the Defenders.
Who wouldn't want to see The Punisher with his new logo that looks like Brock Lesnar's shitty back tattoo? 😏
I still have hope for daredevil. Let's be honest she hulk was just painfully average and daredevil scenes were fun. These guys in this channel somehow will mention she hulk in the same sentence as velma and I can't figure out what they're smoking. I love the Netflix shows and it sucks we'll never get that level of maturity(or get to see the continuation of the cliff hanger from season 3) from Disney but it'll still be cool. Marvel has had some good Disney+ shows and this is by far the biggest superhero name yet to get one. There's a 0 percent chance this will be another she hulk. As for the punisher truly rather have nothing than get a bloodless pg13 punisher. It wouldn't make any sense. I'm really hoping Deadpool comes out and is great and sells a billion tickets so marvel can grow a pair again and realize that it's ok If some properties are for adults.
@@shanetaylor761 I have literally no hope for Daredevil. There have been any good Disney + shows. They've all been bad to meh.
I always thought the punsiher his superpower was unlimited will power. The way Jon Berthals Punisher infinitely keeps on going even after being tortured, bloodied and maimed, grunting ragefully always gets me. He wants to kill you and wont stop until every piece of shit is in the ground.
so give him a green lantern ring and the guy would be unstoppable?
Sometimes they took it too far beyond the realm of believability. It seems no matter how many bullets he got in him, after getting beaten and tortured almost to death, all he needs is a good night's rest and the next day he's running around all healed up. Hollywood seems to think getting 3 bullets in your torso is something you get over in 24 hours.
@@flamestoyershadowkill6400 That's the beauty of The Punisher. He doesn't need a power ring to be unstoppable.
Iirc , I heard a rumor a long time ago, that punisher was influenced or something by an avenging angel or spirit. Forget though, might have been nonsense
@@usern4metak3ns Who knows honestly. Comics are retconned so much that you never know what's true and what matters.
Punisher the netflix series was so well done, John Bernthal was superb in his take on the character. Would be a shame if they dial back his brutal dark nature, that is who he has become.
Season one was, but season two started down the woke trail. With Disney-Marvel at the helm, it will be so that a tiny, malnourished girl can constantly save him and make him a better person. Eventually becoming the Punishtress who scolds the Patriarchy into submission. AKA The Bitch.
S1 was decent but S2 was so bad Icouldnt watch past the second Episode despite loving the Punisher since Childhood
@@EnsignRedshirtRicky Was S2 woke? Sure they had a Muslim woman as the FBI lead but she got here ass handed to her all the time. She was hard-nosed, but she lost most of her fights to men, IIRC.The girl The Punisher saves at the start is a typical Gen Z but even she sees the uses of a shotgun when she's in danger. It was certainly anti-Christian, but then HollyWeird is and has been for decades.
S2 was not as good as S1, maybe because the character was new to me, but it was well worth watching.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle well I think the big improvement in Season 2 is there is no shaky cam bullshit like Taken 3 or 355 ,every action is clear to watch just like Terminal List to be honest and also Punisher won't hesitate to punch assassin women so there is plus.
Each Punisher season was OK, but they honestly spent too much time on weepy back story crap. It's all fine and dandy to SHOW the backstory, I mean, how many times have we seen Thomas and Martha Wayne die...?
Most of the Punisher shows had more time with the Punisher crying or "feeling his feelings" than simply punishing. The Punisher..... PUNISHES.
Frankly, the top tier Punisher was in the Daredevil show.
If you think for a minute that modern-day Marvel is going to let Frank Castle keep his balls, you must not have been paying attention lately.
They don't even care if they are failing, it's messaging first...
“Repeating the same tropes the same pattern.”
Nailed it
I actually hope that they just leave the Punisher alone. Current Disney-Marvel would just mess it up…
Same with the X Men but the Fox movies were already hit and miss already
I could maybe go for: The Punisher Kills The Disney Universe
@@chasehedges6775 Compared to Marvel-Disney, those Fox movies are a memory of heaven... well except for Apocalypse .
They will take his iconic skull and delete it like the comic then make him a gay ninja that cries alot. No thanks. They will ruin it all.
Hope they leave Bullseye alone as well.
If you've seen any of the recent Punisher comics the answer is yes. They'll ruin him. He's too morally complex for Disney to understand
Yeah he's a ninja now....
The thing about skulls is that they really do symbolize death. It's a tactic to intimidate your enemies. That's why pirates used them and special forces use it today. Punisher's skull, much like the bat in Batman's chest, is a symbol designed to inspire both fear in their opponents and hope in the people.
But not something a Police force should be using. Military, sure.
That was one key thing that felt missing even in the Jon Bernthal show... he barely had an armory. Ray Stevenson and Tom Jane both managed to showcase a version of the Punisher that was resourceful and was always stocked up with ammo and weapons. Season 1 of the Netflix show almost got there... but they honestly never fully went there.
I suspect that the Disney Punisher will be made "with the modern audience in mind". His punishments will only be applied to a consenting adult and there WILL be a safe word.
A white male...
There is no "modern audience". There is a modern Twitter mob that will demand changes and then not purchase the revised product anyway.
They’ll just make him Marvel’s Batman...despite the Moon Knight already filling that role
I read this comment in Drinker's voice
Now go away
I'm happy with the two seasons we got. We don't need a third. Things should be allowed to just end, dammit. The show feels so complete as-is.
The show may feel complete (just like Daredevil feels complete), but ultimately the show was still ended early. Things should be allowed to end *on their own terms*, not because they were forced to can it right where they were due to business acquisitions.
The scene in The Punisher with the Johnny Cash lookalike Harry Heck singing a song in a diner was chilling AF!
Definitely cool
Come on Dolph as the Punisher was amazing. "If you're guilty you're dead" nailed it Dolph! Lol. On a more serious note we won't get an anti criminal vigilante movie as we used to because now they fetishise the criminal and make them more sympathetic than the "hero".
Honestly, the 1989 film was the closest in tone to the comics. It was a mess for canonical accuracy but I'll be damned if it didn't feel right.
@vladpiranha agreed, I thought they wasted his potential with a poor script.
"Punisher Warzone" is the most faithful Adaptation there is
Love Garth Ennis era
@@ianramsey101 me too, he really is a Master of his Profession
Yes
When Punisher's sales slipped they tried a lot of strange things with the character. For a while he was Frankenstein Punisher and Space Punisher. Now his is the head of a secret Ninja organization (the symbol he currently wears). Still, the biggest problem with the character is losing the "one bad day" creation of the Punisher. They have now gone back and decided that Frank was always a violent crazy who torture-killed animals as a kid.
And used his wife as a human shield. What. The. F@ck.
Don't forget the "iron punisher", and Frankencastle. Crazy but I loved them. Current Punisher I have no idea. I mostly don't care about current Marvel products
@@alejandrovillalba3143Disney adpots Frankencastle (Frankenstein punisher), space punisher and ninja punisher into upcoming Disney+ shows Daredevil: Born Again and untitled Punisher show. They want family friendly punisher who hunts supervillains but doesn't kill anyone.
The first Iron Man is still in the top tier of the MCU.
Yea. Winter Soldier, Civil War, and Infinity War also being top tier. I'd even include the 1st Guardians movie also.
You mean, the movie that honored the source material was good? Who woulda thunk it!
Was a time when you heard Marvel movie coming out and thought oh cool no matter what that's gotta be good. Now its oh God please no more.
People say Hero fatigue.... BS if Infinity War were released next year itd do just as good maybe a bit worse. It's not fatigue of a genre it's bad movies people are sick of and repeated bad movies will run people off.
Thomas Jane punisher was filmed in Tampa Florida.
My moms home town still has a vigilante group. I personally saw a guys house burn down with the sheriff and fire dept just sitting there looking at it. I asked a friend why weren’t they putting it out? He said they guy is a pedo and he’s being chased out of the county. 🤷🏼♂️
True story. That wasn’t that long ago either.
Hard to believe that still happens in this day and age, good though.
Florida... Alot more than that happens. I once definitely heard about a similar individual calling someone's daughter over. When Leo's arrived they took statements from various people and finally asking the mother so you seriously have no clue what happened and seen nothing? The mother from what I definitely heard said let me ask you something how would you react what would you do if someone was calling your daughter over after being asked and told not to.
The whole event was summed up I guess as a beam of light came down bam and beamed back up and nobody seen anything. The from what I understand perfect recreation was confirmed by witnesses.
It will suck. He will be neutered at the least. "Punisher: War Zone" was outstanding and I wanted to see more of that. It captured the true essence of The Punisher.
What I like the entire Punisher is all of actor who play Frank Castle manage to capture brutality his character to kill enemies
Why didn’t they mention WAR ZONE even once? Very conspicuous…shows a little crack in there armor that they might be posers who really are just characters on youtube and not real people. WAR ZONE was even better then their beloved netflix punisher show yet strangely not one of the SIX of them mentioned it.
@@michaeltrobada4853 because they’re talking about the Jon Bernthal run?
WARZONE wasn't that good. Good action...NOT a Punisher movie. It is what it is.
@@spook407 they brought up the Thomas Jane one. War zone had the right amount of violence and grimeyness that matched the tone of some of the MAX comics. Jons punisher honestly sucked besides how he was in dd s2. I remember when war zone came out one of the biggest complaints were over a scene of frank being upset over his family but it was brief. Now people are ok with hour long episodes of cryfests
Got to meet Jon Bernthal this past fall at Monster Mania Con. He let anyone with a kid (I had my daughter) skip to the front of the line so they didn’t have to wait. Very cool and down to earth. You can tell he’s not a Hollywood Nutjob. Anything he does in the film or television industry I hope he succeeds at.
Idk seen a clip I think he believes some bs. I dont think hes unhinged though. I think hes one of those good people who are like oh yea that's wrong this good. He doesnt know the bad thing usually not reality.
@@nickkoyle3599 Well, he is from D.C., so that might explain any left wing tendencies, but he was relatable enough that I’d hang with him and not be afraid to bring my kids around him. Can’t say the same for most of the Hollywood elite these days.
They are going to butcher Daredevil so I have no hope for Punisher or any other character they will inevitably bring back in the future.
Dont be surprised to see RDJ or others to be brought back for a quick cameo to try get audiences back.
Honestly I’m surprised they haven’t popped Luke Cage back in something just to make all their black fans wet.
They can't just bring them back. They are gone because of their contract ending.
“Man on Fire” with Denzel Washington was the best “Punisher” in my opinion.
Way better than the equalizer
@@crujones4774 I'd say both films are great in their own way
"I wish you had......more time"
@@chasehedges6775 Denzel Washington was his usual great self in both movies. The equalizer movies were OK. They just fell a little flat for me.
No, Death Wish 2, 3, and 4 are the best Punisher movies
I went back and watched Thomas Jane's version of the Punisher from 2004, and that was the best one by far. Shame it never had a follow-up sequel. Thomas Jane owns that role.
Aw man, listening to Michael A. Baron... what a fucking delight to listen to one of the "old guard", people who actually knew their job, treated the source material with respect and had more than enough talent to write compelling stories... BEAUTIFUL! The pulse riffle line killed had me LMAO =))))
Wait a minute - is this THE Mike Baron? Nexus and Badger Mike Baron? He is my favorite comic writer of all time!
"The Ben Affleck version of Batman, where he's fighting interdimensional aliens and all kinds of crazy stuff… It doesn't seem like that's what Batman is meant to be doing, y'know?"
It seems like The Critical Drinker has not read Grant Morrison's JLA, or watched the animated Justice League cartoons. Batman can be perfectly at home doing all kinds of crazy stuff.
Only a matter of time, unfortunately before we get She-Punisher.
One of the best "down-to-earth" and "no-bs" shows I've ever watched! No "no killing" preaching, no "law & justice" garbage... Such a great contrast to Daredevil, that's a typical "I can't kill" hero fantasy show.
If there's a hero I'd wish existed - that's The Punisher!
Don't forget along Ghost Rider,Wolverine and Moonknight if they direct better in TV show.These Anti hero in Marvel or DC comic has no problem to kill criminal unlike most other Marvel or DC heroes when they say:"If you kill one enemy,you became one of them" bullshit.Hell most of Anti heroes will say:"You hit and they back up,I hit them and stay down!I am sure they not back alive and I take pride of that" line from Daredevil season 2
Jon Bernthal as The Punisher was epic imho. I rank it up there with Charlie Cox as Daredevil. Both actors brought those characters to life in a very fantastic way. I'm assuming sadness is on the horizon, though.
Netflix Daredevil’s Pumisher was amazing. The scene he did in the grave yard touched my cold black heart.
Holy shit! Mike Baron! He wrote a ton of stuff for Punisher that I love.
My one gripe with Bernthal's take on Punisher was all the screaming and yelling. Just personal taste, as I know the character has been depicted as both a hot-blooded "berserker" type and a stone cold killer type, but I like the stone-cold killer depiction more.
RRRRRRIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCKKKKKKK, the walking dead comes to mind when I saw his acting in the netlix punisher show. a lot of the same acting I feel.
I actually liked that Batman failed in the new film because of how it was done. It wasn't a deconstruction or character assassination. He's still young and inexperienced, makes mistakes. I genuinely would like to see more.
He was boring, they were compelled to make CatWoman a major co-Star and his Bruce Wayne was pathetic, a modern day teen angst wimp. And it was character assassination, they made his dad involved in shady dealings with the mob boss, so his hero dead dad was now gone. They made Catwoman the mob guys illegitimate daughter now, because, you know, she was biracial and dumped by white man. It was all drivel. Oh, they made him do detective things, so it gets a pass.
And by the way, Nolan had Batman fail in all the movies of the trilogy.
I think putting a vigilante label on Punisher isn't a fair label. Spider-Man is a vigilante, Batman is a vigilante, our traditional comic heroes are vigilantes. They work outside the proper law by taking it into their own hands, but they ultimately turn in the criminal so they can answer to the law and societal justice can be served. Punisher takes justice into his own hands. He knows how unevenly applied the law is, he knows how power and money and influence can affect the scales of justice, and he knows that a dead criminal isn't a repeat criminal.
I really love John Bernthal as Punisher and i would love to see more of of him but on the other hand i dont believe in marvel/mickymouse anymore.
I mean we're set up for another Andor situation here. Even if the show is somehow good, people won't watch it because Disney has lost so much good will. This will be especially noticeable if Daredevil ends up sucking.
@@Yodah97 True
Little different with Daredevil and Punisher already having been out and hits on Netflix. It may be more likely viewers show up even if they're horrible.
@@nickkoyle3599 Yeah that's a good point. Most normies won't know that the team behind the shows changed completely.
The Punisher's superpower is that he can take and deal inhuman amounts of damage, and still never give up.
In my mind, the original vigilantes in America were The Regulators of the early 18th c. They were makeshift bands of mounted troops that protected primarily Scots-Irish settlers as they migrated from western Pennsylvania down the mountain chain into the Valley of Virginia. Their function was to protect the innocent from Indian war bands and bandits along the trail. The Regulator phenomena has cropped up here and their across the country throughout the history of western migration.
I would still say that Netfilx Daredevil and Punisher were some of the best comic book shows put to film. This is for both movies and television. Each character had strengths, weaknesses, and uniqueness that pits them against the bad guy and against other main characters. It makes them believable even when they are clearly operating in a world of superpowers and magic. Also, the actors put their all into the parts and did great. Iron fist was obviously played by an actor who didn't care, given life by writers and a director who didn't understand the 70s kung-fu tropes they were hoping to emulate. Luke Cage was in between - great in the acting and blacksploitation, mediocre in the delivery. Even still, I'd rather watch any of the Netfilx Marvel shows than the garbage Star Wars shows Disney+ has been putting out.
Being a lifelong comic book fan, it continues to blow my mind that Marvel Studios/Kevin Feige knocked it out of the park with the early MCU by faithfully translating the stories that THE FANS wanted to see and somehow forgot that. Out of nowhere, they skipped like 80+ years of incredible and popular stories to tell a fleet of more recent and far less popular stories with insanely less popular characters. It makes me wonder if the strain of building the early MCU caused Feige to have a stroke somewhere along the way. Nothing else makes sense.
Great panel. Thank you
Person of Interest was the Punisher show we needed.
Quite a luxury to have Michael A. Baron, at least to me, I am more of a comic book guy. I am happy there are alternatives to the big two despite the censorship by media and payment services.
Vigilante legends are part of lore across the world.
Robin Hood - England -
Jagga Jatt - Punjab
Both separated by thousands of miles but same vibe
Don't worry. The Girl Who's the Key to Everything will show Frank Castle the error of his ways and put him on the path to redemption!
I loved Travolta as the villain in the Punisher.
I have to disagree with 1 thing. The punisher logo does not stand for law and order. It stands for retribution for wrong doing. It might stand for order, but definitely not for Law because they have a due process. The hunter teams that wear them, are going after horrific people and they are making them go away, not bringing them back to stand trial. I've liked all 3 of the recent iterations because they have just been different answers to the same question.
Thomas Jane was the best punisher in my opinion. I think he really cared about the role and tried his best to bring that that grim but still kind of camp gallows humor while having the punisher seem absolutely like a person you wouldn't want to f*** with. He even did as they mentioned here his short video as well as his voice acting for the game on Xbox which while not amazing is a solid title and I recommend trying it if you ever get a chance it's basically Max Payne punisher.
Even Netflix’s Punisher slowly started going off the rails. DDs2 was the best version of the character, then Punisher 1 was almost as good but not quite, and Punisher s2 totally dropped the ball IMO.
That last scene of s2 when he walks into that gang meeting and unloads with 2 uzis should have been the tone of the whole season and instead they tacked a taste of it in what was essentially an post credit epilogue scene like dangling keys.
I actually can enjoy the Dolph Lundgren “The Punisher” I even own it on DVD. It is kinda MIA, which is very in character for Frank Castle. But, Thomas Jane was legit, Kevin Nash actually got stabbed during that movie. Critical Drinker should do ‘The Punisher’ movies as a complete review.
Punisher behind Guts from berserk, is hands down my favorite character of any story.
I think if any power he should have would be durability. If they must give him powers i feel healing factor would be enough but not as good as wolverine or Deadpools of course. The fact that he is human is what makes him so much more compelling to me.
I customized my 1911 like Tom Jane's in the Punisher movie. Those guns were pure eyecandy.
Season 1 was good but 2 not as much, bringing back a used villain was a bit of a cliche and didn't have the same plot twist of "Oh No what will happen next"
Giorgia Whigham looked and it was nice to see Terry Richardson getting work again
Man, how awesome is that script that synchronizes little platoon's voice and avatar? Niiice!
I would die to do some historic film banter with drinker and the boys.
He will return. But be a secondary character in his own show.
Listen the non binary blarablackasian midget is too strong and brave and beautiful why should they them their that not have it's own show as lead of Punisher?
I always loved the punisher and batman for the same reason, they taught angry competent men with a purpose can rival Gods.
Jon has said that he will only return if they respect Frank Castle and what he represents. Given the interviews I have seen of him, his podcasts, and what others have said about him, I don't believe he would ever bend the knee. And given Disney-Marvel's track record, I don't believe they will do him justice.
Next episode of The Punisher - Frank teams up with the Care Bears to take down the My Little Pony empire.
So glad you had Mike on. He’s awesome
We'll know even before the release: if J Berenthal decides NOT to be part of this project - and not because he has other commitments, but because of 'creative differences' ;) - we will know that it's nothing like the role he originally played.
Great discussion about one of the chracters that today's marvel clearly regards as a dirty open secret for lack of a better word, rather than keeping him as-is to provide contrast and nuance when an antihero like him crosses paths with a regular hero like Spider-man for example.
I know some may be a bit uneasy bringing DC into a Marvel discussion but i think marvel should consider doing a punisher team-up in the style of the green lantern/green arrow run....where they were both working towards the same goals but how they wanted to go about it varied quite a bit and that created a tense relationship between two well-meaning individuals...one who is more of a police officer and even swore an oath upon recruitment.....the other more of a rogue with a certain desire to emulate robin hood. These stories are famous in that they even dealt with things like drug addiction and social issues of the 70s and 80s as far as i know, but they were done well of course.....Hell they could even use one of those really underwhelming new characters that are basically all socially conscious bleeding hearts for that purpose....but i guess that would require effort and would be vilified regardless so they will just neuter the punisher's legacy instead and turn him into something he never was even supposed to be.
Tldr It seems like marvel sees the punisher as the scariest character imaginable....not because of how it's been written but just because he's pretty much the embodiment of everything they hate in one convenient place.
Keep up the great work everyone!
As much as I love punisher, he doesn't uphold the ideals of law and order, and he thinks it's bullshit. My idea of the punisher is that he used to be a patriotic war veteran, but with his family's death and him having to dole out the justice himself, Frank feels like he's the only one with enough sense to do what's needed. I'm a spider-man fan so punisher is not a superhero to me but shit I like when he's around.
I mean it all depends on the run and the writer. But yeah, if the punisher was all about law and order, he'd just become a cop. The Punisher to me has always been about correcting the mistakes of the justice system -- he kills people because he doesn't trust courts, judges, and prisons. It's the embodiment of righeous anger and vigillante justice. And in that context, having cops with the Punisher logo is... odd.
@@Yodah97 it's very odd cause they often commit crimes and violate people's rights using that logo.
I don’t know one hundred percent but I’m pretty sure that SEAL Team 3 began using the Punisher symbol due to Petty Officer Mark Lee being such a fan.
When he was killed allot of the remembrances used contained the skull and it went from there.
Damn this was a good discussion!
"They kept track of what ammunition they had to use"
Same as in H Rider Haggard's "King Solomon's Mines".
T2 has behind the scenes where they had all the main actors live firing at a gun range with pros teaching them.
I kind of hate watched the Punisher series. I liked Bernthal in the role and i love the character and the show had its moments but the reluctance to let Punisher actually punish was pretty weak. He was better in Daredevil S2 where at least him being neutered was explained pretty thoroughly by Daredevil not letting him kill.
The issue is that Seasons 1 and 2 are very focused on Frank's past and the death of his family. I don't think he's ever just prowling the night looking for dirtbags in the Punisher show, which is apparently what he was doing in Daredevil. Still, I'd say both season did a decent job of portraying the punisher as an anger-fueled force of nature, which was nice.
@@Yodah97 peak Punisher taking out badguys is definitely the movie Punisher Warzone. I know i am in a minority that actually likes the movie its pretty not good but thats the level of ice cold badassery i need out of the character and i dont think we are likely to get that under the Disney umbrella.
Hail Mike, creator of The Badger!
Netflix' Punisher felt like: 2 Seasons - 3 origin storys
Netflix's Punisher was very good, but keep in mind that version of Frank Castle is VERY limited, real Frank is way more violent and resolute, Disney would never allow that
Except he sock the eyes up Agent Orange in Punisher TV Show. That shit right there is most Brutal TV show I ever watch since Game Of Throne
Well they should, and have heaps of double-taps as well, in order to encourage people to do the same IRL
I think that Jeph Loeb being involved in the Daredevil show helped a lot. I love his comics that I’ve read and I was happy to see him involved with the show.
Frank is *awesome* in the older comics. I love it when he shows up in Daredevil, he’s not just tough and driven, he’s *smart*. I though that the casting for the Netflix show was spot-on. Giving him superpower actually weakens the character, imho. His intensity and what he gets done is that much more impressive because he has no superpowers… kind of like Batman, except crossing that line that Bruce refuses to cross. Oh yeah, and the gun thing. Frank and Bruce will not see eye to eye on guns. I used to have a Batman/Punisher crossover comic. Not sure what happened to it…
Yes and yes. Next question please.
The punishers super power is that he is just to damn angry to die. He’s a beast of commitment rage and pure determination. You can’t kill him because he’s to stubborn to let you. He’d love nothing more than to rejoin his family but he feels that he needs to get revenge too. He wants to have his cake and eat it too and that is the main idea of punisher to take the easy path and just lay down and die or to choose to do the hardest possible thing and keep living and get some revenge and Justice.
I love the old punisher. Hoping for the best.
And Wyatt Earp was a lawman who banned the carry of firearms in Tombstone. He’s no hero.
Nobody's a hero
"the last marvel movie I've seen is Venom"
Nobody tells him.
Yes and yes.
I must be one of the few people who really liked the Tom Jane Punisher movie, especially the director's cut version. It's a shame the studio went bankrupt during production or they could have done more with it.
*I’ve said this before* The MCU should’ve recasted the Netflix characters… cos if Punisher shows up - best believe he’s gonna be ruined - Daredevil is currently being made for “Younger Audiences” so that tells you all you need to know
If they do the Punisher dirty like they did Daredevil, I'd rather they just leave it alone.
Drinker, if you haven't seen No Country for Old Men, I'd be very interested to see your take on that modern Western.
I think Jon Bernthal has been vocal about not returning to play the role if it was going to be a goofy Disney version. I doubt Disney in 2023 would want to even touch the character considering how "problematic" he is in the eyes of the twitter mobs they see as their current audience. And even in the remote chance that they did bring him in, it would definitely be a ruined version of the character with the logo removed and no guns allowed. We never thought we would see a goofy Daredevil with Charlie Cox, but here we are.
Thanks buddy
Nah, that Tom Jane Punisher film had a lot of weight. Travolta was basically a mob boss, and sent other people to do his bidding. It’s probably my favorite Punisher film, but yeah I agree that War Zone was the most faithful adaptation.
I really liked Thomas Jane as the Punisher, even if they didn't give him the best storyline. I wasn;t as big a fan of the Punisher TV show, it had more padding than a Santa costume.
AGREED!!
I still just saw a Dodge Challenger with the Punisher logo as the hood. It won't go away and there will still always be fans
But that's what they want. They want to distance themselves from the legacy fans, so nothing done with the old logo can be associated with the current comic run. The new logo seems to be designed to be too cringe for anyone to use unironically.
@@Yodah97 I think eventually the company will lose control of the character. They are weirdly allergic to money. You are right about there not being anything new that fans will want, but the character and his logo are already deep in the culture. There's still a new Punisher tattoo being inked on someone at this very moment. I think it's too strong of a symbol for even the IP owner to destroy.
This Michael A Baron guy is awesome
Michael baron... ur 100% on point
Will the Punisher Return and will it suck?
The answer is a comic book away.
James Patterson as Batman would be an entirely different kettle of fish.
Frank is a force of nature...you can read a xomic about him. He can guest star in a TV show. But it's tough to do a series with the punisher. He is tortured. He's brutal. He is merciless. And seeing that in every episode is tough much for many ppl and they want to make the show lighter. Season 2 had him baby sitting a teen. It was awful. Frank is an antihero but he is also a serial killer. Hard to pull that off and Disney isn't up to the task
The punisher was really only “The Punisher” in Daredevil season 2 and parts of Punisher Season 1, then he became like Wolverine-Lite for the rest of the show. But I’m sure if modern MCU continues the story it will be complete and utter trash.
I’d be so worried if Punisher returns to Stage 5, Bernthal perfectly encapsulated the character and He was unique compared to the other heroes of the MCU!
It will return, but he will find out that he's so angry because he's actually a woman trapped in a man's body. So she'll change her name to Savior and she will go around saving people just by using her great logic of "you should do better", and everyone will say "Yeah, I really should".
Yes
I have no hope for the Punisher, Xmen or Blade in the mcu. If Deadpool is still good it will be a miracle.
Blade... Wonder what the odds are first episode is full of social commentary.
As I understand it, they shot the 2004 Punisher in Tampa for two reasons: 1) the downtown is deserted during the day, making it easy to shoot there, and 2) they got a massive tax break for doing so.