Testing with the 140gr ELD-M and Vihtavuori N560. Nosler Brass, CCI 34 primer. Rifle is a 24" Bergara B14 HMR 1:8 twist. Target is at 100yds, velocity gathered via Labradar. / robsreloading
This is where cross checking load data with other sources pays off. If you look at VV data for 6.5 PRC, they don not have N560 listed for that weight of bullet. That indicates to me that they found it too fast, or subject to secondary pressure spikes. Some double based powders do have secondary pressure spikes when pushed hard, and often when not pushed hard enough. Remember nitro glycerin is a high order explosive that is being moderated by a low order propellant and other chemicals. Same effect as dynamite which was nitro glycerin in saw dust (straight cellulose). No saw dust and nitro is very sensitive to impact.
140 eldm seems to always show pressure signs before other bullets even heavier 143 and 147 bullets. If you are getting pressure signs early in different loads and bullets consider heavy cleaning you may have significant carbon ring and excessive copper. Same thing happened in my 28 nosler.
I've become a huge fan of vihtavuori powders and for whatever reason its been in stock more than anything else... I haven't ventured into their 500 series powders yet but I've heard really good things about it. I would say get a 6mm ARC I've already bought the upper/lower receivers, trigger, handgaurd, and PRS stock just saving for the barrel and bolt now. I love my Grendel but I think the 6mm ARC is the new king of the AR15s!! Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
That 56.4 group was fantastic. I am sure you have already considered this but if you have a few non Nosler brass then run 3 or 4 @ the 55.9 and compare all the details & data. Perhaps that would help determine if the brass is the issue or if you are legitimately in pressure territory. Temps may be more of an issue than we might think. Good call either way. Thank you for vid.
That may be a good idea. I have some hornady brass I. Could test with. Also have some adg brass. Never fired and rumors are adg has lower capacity than the typical prc brass.
Some nice shooting with the 6.5 prc. New to reloading. Starting off 243 win. Iv had brass smeared by factory ppu 300blk loads 🤔 300blk some want start reloading for soon. 243win loading 95gr Silvertip ballistic tips over 6.5 stayball powder for know.
All load data in the Hornady reload data book are with Hornady Brass. Especially if they developed the cartridge. Your brass most likely has less case volume. Nice video I purchased the same powder to try in my 6.5 PRC. I will be using Peterson Brass which I am sure has less case capacity than Hornady as well. Most premium brass does. I may try your hottest load you shot and go backwards .3 of a grain on 3 more loads and see what that does. Most loads shoot the best about a grain less than max load anyway. Not always, but most of the time.
Who uses vihtavuori n350 slow handgun powder ? 9mm reloading . 115 gr FMJ-RN , 5.7 gr load , AOL 1.140 , PCC 16" barrel . what the velocity there no data out there .. i would guess about 1350 FPS
I like the idea of 6mm ARC in a bolt gun. Hornady lists data for ARC bolt guns with 10,000 psi higher pressure. Savage is making a 110 Switchback (available at Sportsman's Warehouse for $500) and the 110 Tactical available in the ARC. The gas gun ARC seems less interesting to me. In order for the 110 chambered in ARC to be put in a chassis and feed from the AICS magazine, there are two possible solutions of which I have heard. One is the MDT Valkyrie magazine and the other is the Primal Rights 6 BR magazine spacer/follower spring conversion kit. I don't think the conversion kit works with the AICS plastic PMAGs, though. The only trouble with .243 is the barrels' twist rate is one in ten, limiting the use of the new heavier high BC bullets.
@@RobsReloading I tried some Berger bullets in their twist rate calculator. Nothing heavier than the 95 grain hunter was stable (barely), and even the 95 grain VLD wasn't. The ARC was 1 in 7.5, so just no 115s.
Your channel has piqued my interest. Have watched a few times in the past, but I've been watching all morning and seeing what data you're getting with your 20" Grendel, Staball powder/combination and general handloading, very well done and concise. My big question for you is, "are you adverse to finding, pressure, on the loads you're testing, because OCW, is a great method but components heavy. And being that the current components issue is a pain in the ass, using a 10+ pressure test, is an excellent shortcut, to figure out where you need to be, for that load/ components combination. Then you can OCW, seating depth, powder weight test to dial it in exactly. I've been handloading a long time. FWIW BTW Nosler is soft brass and over-pressures easily.
To bad u ran in to the pressure signs. How did you decide on COL? If the 140gr or seated dealer could be part of the pressure signs. Enjoyed the video. Also go with a 6mm arc!! Ps what software do you use to edit?
I really don't think they were that hot, you're using the softest brass on the market and of course you're going to get ejector marks and some sticky bolt, it's expanding into the chamber more than a higher quality brass like ADG would (which is harder material), that group and those SD's tells you the rifle is happy with that combo right there. I've gone well above max load data and no sticky bolt and no ejector marks. How far off headspace did you have this particular batch of brass as well, and how far off the lands are the bullets seated?
I remember the Hornady brass measured 69.6 grains H2O volume, much less than QL default of 72.3. You said the volume was the same for the Nosler. QL predicted only 2952 for your 56.4 grain charge and none of your charges were predicted to be overpressure. The powder seems to be behaving more like N555, which is predicted at 3025 and 65541 psi. Is this a different batch of N560 than you used previously?
Yes this is all put of the same can of n560. It has to be something regarding the brass. I had some 130gr sierra tgk loads using r23 using sierra load data that had to all be pulled. Don't even think those made the channel. Think I shot 2-3 total and had pressure issues.
Just curious if you tried a different primer, like a cci 200?.....I thought the cci 34 was more in the magnum territory. Enjoy your videos- subscribed.
@@RobsReloading I use 34's quite a bit with 6.5 Staball and Superperformance.....thought maybe the hotter primer got your pressures to jump up quicker than you expected with the N560. I recently tried N555 with some great results....I know you have to run what you have these crazy times with what's available. Cheers
The case capacity on the Nosler brass could be slightly less than a Hornady case. I'd be curious how the Nosler load data compares to the Hornady manual.
@@RobsReloading Great to know! How does the Nosler load data compare to the data in the Hornady manual? Through the years I've seen similarities in data from one major manufacturer but as you noted, you experienced classic high pressure signs at the start which is very unusual. Did you happen to compare the Vihtavuori load data with that on the Hornady manual?
I killed a doe with compound bow, since gun season opened only some small bucks. Plan is to bring the muzzle loader to the channel in the near future. As we have a late ML season here. I'm leaning towards 243, but seems a lot of people want to see 6 arc.
This is where cross checking load data with other sources pays off. If you look at VV data for 6.5 PRC, they don not have N560 listed for that weight of bullet. That indicates to me that they found it too fast, or subject to secondary pressure spikes. Some double based powders do have secondary pressure spikes when pushed hard, and often when not pushed hard enough. Remember nitro glycerin is a high order explosive that is being moderated by a low order propellant and other chemicals. Same effect as dynamite which was nitro glycerin in saw dust (straight cellulose). No saw dust and nitro is very sensitive to impact.
140 eldm seems to always show pressure signs before other bullets even heavier 143 and 147 bullets. If you are getting pressure signs early in different loads and bullets consider heavy cleaning you may have significant carbon ring and excessive copper. Same thing happened in my 28 nosler.
I've become a huge fan of vihtavuori powders and for whatever reason its been in stock more than anything else... I haven't ventured into their 500 series powders yet but I've heard really good things about it. I would say get a 6mm ARC I've already bought the upper/lower receivers, trigger, handgaurd, and PRS stock just saving for the barrel and bolt now. I love my Grendel but I think the 6mm ARC is the new king of the AR15s!! Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
If not a 6mm CM then definitely go 243. Old tried and true offering. It is a family favorite for us since the 1960s.
That 56.4 group was fantastic.
I am sure you have already considered this but if you have a few non Nosler brass then run 3 or 4 @ the 55.9 and compare all the details & data. Perhaps that would help determine if the brass is the issue or if you are legitimately in pressure territory. Temps may be more of an issue than we might think. Good call either way. Thank you for vid.
That may be a good idea. I have some hornady brass I. Could test with. Also have some adg brass. Never fired and rumors are adg has lower capacity than the typical prc brass.
Some nice shooting with the 6.5 prc. New to reloading. Starting off 243 win.
Iv had brass smeared by factory ppu 300blk loads 🤔 300blk some want start reloading for soon. 243win loading 95gr Silvertip ballistic tips over 6.5 stayball powder for know.
All load data in the Hornady reload data book are with Hornady Brass. Especially if they developed the cartridge. Your brass most likely has less case volume. Nice video I purchased the same powder to try in my 6.5 PRC. I will be using Peterson Brass which I am sure has less case capacity than Hornady as well. Most premium brass does. I may try your hottest load you shot and go backwards .3 of a grain on 3 more loads and see what that does. Most loads shoot the best about a grain less than max load anyway. Not always, but most of the time.
morning Rob 🌄
6 arc for sure!
Who uses vihtavuori n350 slow handgun powder ? 9mm reloading . 115 gr FMJ-RN , 5.7 gr load , AOL 1.140 , PCC 16" barrel . what the velocity there no data out there .. i would guess about 1350 FPS
I've had issues with hornady brass having extraction issues with mild loads. I used nosler brass and the issues went away.
I like the idea of 6mm ARC in a bolt gun. Hornady lists data for ARC bolt guns with 10,000 psi higher pressure. Savage is making a 110 Switchback (available at Sportsman's Warehouse for $500) and the 110 Tactical available in the ARC. The gas gun ARC seems less interesting to me. In order for the 110 chambered in ARC to be put in a chassis and feed from the AICS magazine, there are two possible solutions of which I have heard. One is the MDT Valkyrie magazine and the other is the Primal Rights 6 BR magazine spacer/follower spring conversion kit. I don't think the conversion kit works with the AICS plastic PMAGs, though.
The only trouble with .243 is the barrels' twist rate is one in ten, limiting the use of the new heavier high BC bullets.
Def looking at bolt guns only. The 243 would be 1:9 twist. Wish there were more options for the 6arc. I didn't even consider magazine capatability.
@@RobsReloading Who makes the 1 in 9 twist? 6 cm and .243 have reputations as "barrel burners," I've read.
@@dahut3614 savage makes the axis precision 1:9 22" barrel, mounted in an oryx chassis for sub 900$.
@@RobsReloading I tried some Berger bullets in their twist rate calculator. Nothing heavier than the 95 grain hunter was stable (barely), and even the 95 grain VLD wasn't. The ARC was 1 in 7.5, so just no 115s.
@@dahut3614 your saying anything heavier than 95gr won't stabilize in the 1:9 twist 243?
Your channel has piqued my interest. Have watched a few times in the past, but I've been watching all morning and seeing what data you're getting with your 20" Grendel, Staball powder/combination and general handloading, very well done and concise. My big question for you is, "are you adverse to finding, pressure, on the loads you're testing, because OCW, is a great method but components heavy. And being that the current components issue is a pain in the ass, using a 10+ pressure test, is an excellent shortcut, to figure out where you need to be, for that load/ components combination. Then you can OCW, seating depth, powder weight test to dial it in exactly. I've been handloading a long time. FWIW
BTW Nosler is soft brass and over-pressures easily.
To bad u ran in to the pressure signs. How did you decide on COL? If the 140gr or seated dealer could be part of the pressure signs. Enjoyed the video. Also go with a 6mm arc!!
Ps what software do you use to edit?
Used hornady recommend OAL. Software is just basic imovie.
I really don't think they were that hot, you're using the softest brass on the market and of course you're going to get ejector marks and some sticky bolt, it's expanding into the chamber more than a higher quality brass like ADG would (which is harder material), that group and those SD's tells you the rifle is happy with that combo right there. I've gone well above max load data and no sticky bolt and no ejector marks. How far off headspace did you have this particular batch of brass as well, and how far off the lands are the bullets seated?
I remember the Hornady brass measured 69.6 grains H2O volume, much less than QL default of 72.3. You said the volume was the same for the Nosler. QL predicted only 2952 for your 56.4 grain charge and none of your charges were predicted to be overpressure. The powder seems to be behaving more like N555, which is predicted at 3025 and 65541 psi. Is this a different batch of N560 than you used previously?
Yes this is all put of the same can of n560. It has to be something regarding the brass. I had some 130gr sierra tgk loads using r23 using sierra load data that had to all be pulled. Don't even think those made the channel. Think I shot 2-3 total and had pressure issues.
Yep that does suck but right it happens. Good group to end on.
Just curious if you tried a different primer, like a cci 200?.....I thought the cci 34 was more in the magnum territory. Enjoy your videos- subscribed.
Nope, I have some fed 205 primers, [non mag]. Have not tried yet. I feel like the 34 should be a good choice and it's what I have.
@@RobsReloading I use 34's quite a bit with 6.5 Staball and Superperformance.....thought maybe the hotter primer got your pressures to jump up quicker than you expected with the N560. I recently tried N555 with some great results....I know you have to run what you have these crazy times with what's available. Cheers
@@RobsReloading Scratch what I said about the N555- That was in 6.5 Creedmoor NOT 6.5 PRC :)
The case capacity on the Nosler brass could be slightly less than a Hornady case. I'd be curious how the Nosler load data compares to the Hornady manual.
Fired case from my rifle seems to be the same capacity for my hornady and nosler brass.
@@RobsReloading Great to know!
How does the Nosler load data compare to the data in the Hornady manual?
Through the years I've seen similarities in data from one major manufacturer but as you noted, you experienced classic high pressure signs at the start which is very unusual.
Did you happen to compare the Vihtavuori load data with that on the Hornady manual?
Great group. How is your deer hunting going??? I have a Howa .243. I absolutely love it. Most accurate gun I own.
I killed a doe with compound bow, since gun season opened only some small bucks. Plan is to bring the muzzle loader to the channel in the near future. As we have a late ML season here. I'm leaning towards 243, but seems a lot of people want to see 6 arc.
6 ARC for sure. Or hop on the 6.8 Western train to compare to the 6.5 PRC
Maybe just hold out for a 6 CM!
You will find out this Saturday!
243 all the way.