"Society would not accept a black Simon Jordan!" ⚽ John Barnes | Up Front
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- This is Up Front with Simon Jordan. A new show brought to you by William Hill that pulls no punches and tells it EXACTLY like it is.
This week we are joined by John Barnes, a footballing icon of the 80s and 90s who remains one of the most electric players to ever grace these shores. Now an author and commentator on issues of race and class in modern Britain, John joins the show for an explosive interview that leaves no stone unturned.
Why are there so few black managers in the football league? Simon & John put all the facts on the table in the search for a definitive answer.
This is Up Front, brought to you by William Hill. 18+ please gamble responsibly.
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#johnbarnes #simonjordan #football
00:00 Introduction to John Barnes
00:50 Podcast begins
01:20 Why John Barnes started playing football
07:15 Graham Taylor
12:40 Football Management
13:55 John Barnes’ management career
15:00 Black Managers
19:35 English Managers vs Foreign Managers
23:10 Black managers discussion continues
26:00 There couldn’t be a black Simon Jordan
29:29 Chairman don’t sack managers, fans do
32:00 Perception
34:25 John Barnes at Liverpool
36:30 John Barnes international career
39:20 Graeme Souness
49:02 John Barnes international career Pt.2
52:20 Footballers today vs John Barnes playing today
53:20 Liverpool in 2023
’Society would not accept a black Simon Jordan!’ ⚽ John Barnes goes Up Front with Simon Jordan
Brilliant to see two people with completely different opinions actually have an open, calm and considered conversation with each other ... if only politics and the media could take note.
Amen to that one... 👍
Politics and media are ALL ABOUT keeping us divided, it's their bread and butter, keeping racism alive puts food on their tables
Very true. Thing is, half the people would have been triggered by the title and the intro clip of JB.
The title and the intro are selected for a reason.
To create drama to get views.
@@tsampson6660 yes its called clickbait for a reason and even though most people are aware of this they still become emotional slaves to narrative.
If only John Barnes could absorb what he's saying. He's as racist as anyone, a very extreme racist
Did I just witness two human beings with differing opinions listen to each other and debate without being offended, having a panic attack and trying to cancel one another? THERE IS HOPE LEFT IN THE WORLD!
I really like this. Simon Jordan really doesn't shy away from saying what he thinks and also draws in the best from the person he is talking with. Spirited conversation but respectful. Love it.
Couldn’t have worded it any better, mate.
@@spreadthelove77yep it's the ultimate sign of respect. Glad he's capable of it after the Robbie debacle.
Like or love? 🙄
Simon & John. What an interview! Tackling difficult subjects with maturity & dexterity. This is how to debate tricky topics.
Nonsense! All standard fayre! None existent victim status!! BS!!
This was the best upload by far. Uncomfortable conversations are a brilliant listen. Thank you, Simon and John, for making this happen.
We truly live in Futurama world when you're calling this an upload not a conversation lol
Enjoyed that
No it wasn't... it was a poor me poor me production
Too real talk about the actual game without sensations. The itchy thumps and nitwit for brain do not understand meaning of conversation.
John Barnes is a pure racist. That's all I saw
I love how Simon Jordan isn’t afraid to speak his mind
But what about if he was black? The same. I dont understand Barnseys point unless it was a racist one?
@@CARLIN4737 If anything, it is harder to speak out and have opinions if you are white these days, because you will get labelled as something nasty.
@@CARLIN4737 absolutely! Victim mentality!
🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
Simon = top LAD proper clobber.
He shut down barnes virtue signalling straight away
Didn’t realise this podcast is 3 months old, came on the radio today whilst cleaning my car. Happy to find it on youtube so I can listen to the whole thing🙌🏿
John Barnes NEEDS his own show he has so much to give in knowledge, experience and intelligence. He is such a great speaker along with his calmness of character.
Him having his own show wouldn’t go down well with the “he’s just a quota/token” brigade 😂
@@EsseNewBeatz what the heck you talking about?
@@tentonymason basically, some people seem to think these days that people of colour are only getting jobs in the media solely based on their skin colour & nothing else.
Unfortunately he won't have his own show because he is to outspoken and have a very strong personality, only docile, coconuts will be acceptable as anchors
So true
I had lunch with John Barnes, we both rambled on for 2 hours until his people dragged him away as he had other appointments. Fascinating person. One of the Highlights of my life.
Who are you? Serious question.
Me too at melwood, so humble, great man
Sure you did
@@miamitten1123 I own restaurants and John was doing a tour of Africa with Standard Chartered, and we sponsored a lunch with John Barnes with guests and also catered for a cocktail evening with speeches etc. It was very intimate, only a few people, and just brilliant. I also have hosted Sami Hyppia which was just great too, and also Bryan Robson like 12 years or so ago.
@@sib1930 I promise you I did.
The reason I fell in love with football and Liverpool Football Club was this guy. Thank you for such a great episode.
Same here, on both accounts. YNWA
2 of the fastest talkers I’ve ever heard
@@eddiebradley8787 you’ll never walk again lad
Same here. Was a Liverpool fan in the day of Barnesy and Ian Rush and that carried through to Gerrard’s era… had to cring at JB’s "rap" for that England team -New Order song 😅 though lol
Same
When JB was comparing his win ratio to Steven Gerard's and Steven Gerard got the Aston Villa job because of it, he made one glaring omission. Gerard won the league with Rangers and that was probably , IMO, the main reason he got the Villa job.
Healthy debate without resorting to a screaming match. So refreshing!
With the amount of podcasts there are now (I have spent hours listening to a wide range of them) UpFront truly feels like a breathe of fresh air. This has been my favourite upload so far but they've all been very interesting and the range and questions and topics covered are great!
Thank you (again) for this. I have the utmost respect for John Barnes. I think it was 1983 at Vicarage Road watching him and Luther batter Man Utd 5-1 and I don't recall Utd getting the ball...Barnes is a true legend of the game and an inspiration. Unfortunately this country has shat on him and many other talented people in the game from that era. Good job Simon, by the way, you should of approached him back in the day...have the courage of your convictions...Love
As a wolves fan Nuno Santo is my favourite manager in my 40 years support. Absolute legend and i can 100% say that colour dosent come in to it at all. Its about his connection to the fans and community that was unrivalled. I was gutted when he left.
Magnificent Podcast guys. Love John Barnes, Even though I am a Arsenal fan he's one of my favourite football heroes. 🇯🇲🙌🏿💫
This will truly be a great listen. Best guest so far imo
Chris Houghton was loved at Newcastle by the fans , and still is , they did not get him sacked
Such a pleasure to hear John Barnes!
John Barnes has a univariable explanation for everything: Racism..i actually appreciate his ability to simplify complex issues like this
Easier than personal responsibility
You wouldn’t happen to be white by any chance would you?
racism is bit like working in retail, it only takes one person to ruin to your day. Having experienced racism, if your not careful it can make you very bitter. Its a terrible thing to experience, not so much the incident but the danger in which it can sour your thoughts moving forward. Then it creates a self defeatist attitude and then each proceeding time you experience racism it cements your thoughts on the issue.
@@fezzabluenose White players can experience the same thing. But hey, keep living in a fantasy world if it makes you feel better. But Kaka, for instance, was viewed as a lesser talent and as a lesser player by a lot of people in Brazil just because he was white. Then he came along anyways and curb-stomped people, because hey talent is talent. Black football players aren't disadvantaged in any way in a country like England, probably the opposite honestly since they're often very big, agile, fast and athletic. I also remember some public persona many years ago, in reference to Bayern Munich player Samuel Kuffour, saying black people are naturally better football players than white people, and no one batted an eye. Imagine if someone said the opposite, that white are better natural football players than black people, people like you would have gone clinically mad.
@@okyouknowwhateverwhat ?
his mum becoming a barrister in her 70s and still practicing at 87 is mad! his family are elite in whatever they do.
Must have good genes
Kinda proves him completely wrong
@@jamesallen8917 It DOES prove him completely wrong, it's the part that you're not meant to notice
@@jamesallen8917 As does the fact he got the Celtic job with no experience,as does Simon's list of black managers....but society blah blah
John barnes is a massive hypocrite
What a great duo! Shame the episode wasn’t longer!
I'd like another session on another topic - they work well together.
When John said we can run, we can play, but can we think, that really got me thinking.
John Barnes is a true icon and a legend.
Would love to see Simon Jordan do one of these with Roy Keane
Absolutely 👍
John Barnes is such an intelligent man, a great speaker and so authentic.✔️
Mentions Kompany. And (weird to even say but it’s conversation that is happening), I never once thought HE IS BLACK, until now when Barnes talking about it. He is just a very good manager.
It’s exhausting listening to him, he is making race more of an issue than resolving anything
Brilliant interview, need more like these 👍🏻
My fav Liverpool player of all time. In his prime late 80's, jesus what a player. Had the lot, speed,skill,freekicks,goals,headers,flair and power.
He couldn't lace Beardsley's boots!!lived off that goal against Brazil in a friendly..way overrated!!
Loved this discussion! ❤
Wish there was a part 2, really enjoyed the interview
Fantastic interview. This is my favourite CZcams channel right now
Excellent listen, wasn’t sure I’d be able to engage with Simon but fair play, very articulate bloke. John Barnes was my hero and still my favourite player, thoroughly engaging bloke as well, great show 👍🏾
Loved this. My outlook on Simon Jordan has changed after this interview. Two people with two different outlooks, views challenging each other with no barriers. The way it's supposed to be. Well done 👏
If you listen to Simon on talk sport he is hardly challenged.
He seems to have not learned anything from John. See interview with Letisier on institutional racism.
@@Edge81 I am going to watch the interview with Letisier now, is there any thing I should be looking out for in the conversation.
@@ExploreXplore394 Pick upthe conversation from 41 minutes in ...
@@Edge81 Yes. I agree with you, he seems to not have learnt any thing. I would say the same thing, "He seems to have not learned anything from John"
John is a brilliant sport and an excellent smart individual. Way before my time of course but looking back at some of his clips he was a formidable player and would be one of the best players in the world today. Would love to see him play for this current Liverpool side. God bless and protect this smart man!
Bankrupt 7 times over, not very smart at all ... 🤦
@@mikenike6079 no proof of that whatsoever
As a black man who genuinely comes from priveledge, I understand both arguments very well regarding race relations. We need more of this Simon!! Well Done sir
John Barnes I grew up watching, in fact he was my hero, my god and I loved him playing for Liverpool.. 🙏❤️.. Had he managed Liverpool I would have been also very happy and supportive like all Liverpool fans..
Sorry to see him not apply for jobs because he didn’t want rejection because his perception was blurred by other people with blurred vision…
Let’s hope this let’s be a victim mentality can disappear and not stay glued into society for divide and conquer like so many politicians want…
We are all special without judgement 🙏❤️
GREAT PODCAST GUY'S, I always felt that john Barnes has so much to give back to football particularly in this country hopefully one day this will happen.
What a great conversation!!!
Definitely worth a listen and I’ll tune in with an open mind 👏🏽
I'm exhausted after this ! Brilliant interview ✅
Brilliant to have this conversation, I'm very interested
This was brilliant! I didn’t realize I need more Barnes in my life.
Yep African meat is good for you beaches
You want victim mentality in your life 😅😅😅😅
@@simonsmith6519 It doesn’t come across like that. Interesting convo.
@@simonsmith6519 A cynical way to bury legitimate conversations about difficult issues
@@zergnub7426 it's a bot looking for interactions
Fantastic interview, as always. Difficult conversations which most would shy away from. Such a fan of this podcast
Another brilliant episode. Please keep them coming!
Thank you for this great conversation
Compulsive viewing - such a refreshingly open conversation!
Amazing discussion, uncomfortable in places but both held there view and we’re true professionals, keep up the amazing work
Didn't John Barnes once say that the best way to reduce racism was to stop talking about racism? Btw, Gerard won the league. From a Celtic fan.
Scottish football doesn’t count.
And never gives an interview without talking about racism, complete hypocrite :-)
Agree mate,,Morgan Freeman amongst many said the best way to make it go away is to stop continually talking about it ,,I know it's his opinion but I reckon he's qualified to comment on the matter ..
Looool so you'd rather he didn't mention it and just act like it's not real. He's speaking his life experiences. I found it fascinating
Did Gerrard win the league because he was given longer?
John Barnes. Seriously intelligent person. I agree with everything he said.
Barnes loss percentage at Celtic is awful, close to 37% over 29 games
Gerrard has less than 18% under close to 200 games
He started very well if I remember correctly, which I may not be. Barnes I mean.
Other mangers have had worse records and been given time and chances.
Chris Hutton deserved a top job more than solskjer and Lampard.
Chris got sacked from Brighton even with limited funds and squad.
White managers get more opportunities.
Lampard can keep failing same as Gerrard and still get a job.
Barnes made a good point about British managers being perceived in a certain way which is true.
If David Howie was European or South American he would get more credit.
So in away white British managers have to deal with a similar perception difference Is its slightly easier for a white British manager than a black manager.
The reason the numbers are low for black managers applying for the position is they know its an almost impossible task so they don't bother. we all know football Is a brutal world when you ant winning and when your a manager why would you put yourself through the stress.
Digger Barnes what a player
@@realnesx Lampard failed twice. Gerard failed once. Neither of them has a permanent job so what is your point?
Vieira failed at Nice but got the Palace job, what does that prove?
Liam Brady must be one of the worst managers in the recent memory of Celtic so at least Barnes was not as bad as him.
25 minutes in and this is by far the best interview / conversations so far, both are fantastic
Enjoyed this great to hear challenging conversations. Interesting stuff
Such a good listen. Eloquent and succinct.
John Barnes was the best ever naturally gifted footballer, England should have built the team around the great Barnes World class.
😂😂😂😂
He was a brilliant player but I can understand why he didn't become a good manager watching him in this interview. He is a strong educated man with strong forthright opinions.He wouldn't come across well in interview with another dominant in a job application.The Chairman always wants to be the boss...and Barnes is no Fergie or Guardiola...they have done their football coaching apprenticeship
@@mikipiediaelburro7588 Fergy built 2 clubs up,,, These start players never learn from the bottom,, The dutch have a good system start at the bottom,,,,also man management Fergy was good at that too
Silly to compare the win percentage of Celtic under Barnes to Gerrards at Rangers. Celtic were established and stable whereas Gerrard was managing a club building its way back up and not even in the top division all that long.
Also, Gerrard won the league as Rangers manager.
Well then it's Simon Jordan's fault for not bringing that up..
True, as the two sample sizes of games are totally different! However, Gerrard arrived when Rangers were already the 2nd best team in Scotland. It was no longer the club resurrected from the ignominy of 2012.
@@KloppMichaelBarnes True
Absolutely fantastic interview that’s had with utmost respect and open-mindedness. Two of my favorites.
Both had valid points which when addressed can work to close the divide.
Great pod. The lads talk that fast, they rocked out a 2hr show in under an hour.
Superb player one of the best players liverpool
Ever had. Seen him so many times at anfield.
…brilliant podcast!…I was out after the Souness PC, as it was nothing I hadn’t heard before…this one was brilliant…2 people with firm opinions, and giving each other the space to air their views…I’m back in the game!! 😊
Was watching hoping it won't end. Great interview.
This is fantastic. I'm so glad Simon Jordan is doing his own channel. And having John Barnes as his first guest is brilliant. John Barnes is a logical and insightful person with a ton of value to offer football and the world.
John Barnes was not only a brilliant footballer but he is such an articulate and intelligent individual. You can tell by his upbringing. Great podcast!
Brilliant footballer but it stops at that
Seems very rácist to me
Why does skin colour matter
Allegedly owes 250k to the taxman..if he was that intelligent would this happen?
@@welshie1979 What has that got to do with you? If you are so concerned pay it for him. Simon went bankrupt help him while you can...lol
Amazing podcast! Love that simon got his own podcast!!! Couple of hours at talk sport and one to one show wasn’t enough always learning from his talks! Great person amazing business man! 🙏🏼❤️
Amazing conversation!
Great podcast!! Fantastic discussions well done Simon very professional interview
Great podcast ..The tony Adams phonecall made me laugh😂
John Barnes, as a White man, has been one of my heroes for many years. Has integrity, says it straight, doesn't get involved with the woke nonsense, dealt with horrific racist dogs abuse and kept his head held high. This coming from a Toffee!
“As a white man” lmao what’s the relevance of that? You’re allowed to idolise black men when you’re white you know, you don’t have to preface it
@@Ooth9999 What's the relevance of you asking me what the relevance of that is? I don't Idolise anyone on this planet (you can say hero is close, but not the same) and I am White, so why shouldn't I celebrate that? Just as I would if I was Black or Asian.
@@VileCAESARB lmfao good job changing the topic to suit your narrative.
Your comment is so badly written i thought you were sarcastically calling John Barnes a white man
@@Ooth9999 Dude why did you jump in his comment like that? You don't understand how damaging that is and how it fuels the very thing you're propagating as existing.
It was a well-intentioned, supportive comment. White people, like myself, are terrified of offending or saying the wrong thing. When someone expresses support and it's clearly well-intentioned, and you and your agitation / cognitive dissonance get all pent-up and aggressive about it, it doesn't help it only hinders.
Brilliant conversation. 👏
Great chat and interview
JB such an intelligent guy. Not sure about some of his opinions on racism in football but I love listening to him speak.
It's hard for non-blacks to understand the scope and burden of being black.
@@dwightcrichton3246 Aye, the scope in size, and burdensome weight of the ever-present chip sure does drag one down, whom-ever chooses to foist it upon one's shoulders.
Amazing interview John Barnes, Simon Jordan! Shame society can’t emulate!
Met this guy last week. Absolute brilliant man.
Perceptions discussion was eye opening and wonderful
10 minutes in and I love this conversation!!
Whether you agree with Barnes or not, you have to admire his passion. Hero to millions as a footballer and even more of a bigger hero now. Fair play to Jordan. I admire his honesty in these interviews, he doesn't hold back
I've learnt not to agree or disagree with anything but to absorb different perspectives. I don't need to form an opinion about everything but to be aware of various/opposing viewpoint on any given issue. Climate change, politics, race, religion, war ect ect I've got not opinion I've however consciously decided to become aware of different positions but not forming a conclusion.
@@skp8748 There are some things which are just right and wrong though.
Excellent interview .
this was fascinating and a cracking listen!
These are the dialogues we need to better our society without chopping off any heads that may or may not disagree with us. There’s a lot we can takeaway from both of them and learn to have better understandings as human beings. It was both knowledgeable and entertaining at times.
Imagine Piers Morgan was conducting this interview😔
@@mirandaal4541 😴😴😴
What a daft comment. We need less of this brainwashing and to look with our own eyes. When was the last time you saw open racism? Be honest! This is all to push a narrative, it’s a sham.
@@mirandaal4541Impossible!
John lost his job at Celtic as he was in charge of one of the worst results in Celtics history, he had players refusing to go out & play the 2nd half for him. He lost the dressing room & whether he was green ,pink, yellow, blue or black the job was to much for him.
thanks for pointing out the facts.
Also got the Celtic job with no track record which contradicts his whole argument,
BAZ Celtic fans are racists though however that’s not why he lost his job.
@@robertstewart8410 Seemed to like Larsson amongst others.
@Daniel b threw bananas at mark walters tho.
Absolute quality watch 👌🏾
John Barnes hasn't got a chip on his shoulder he's got the whole bag .
Love John Barnes, one of my heroes
Love John Barnes . My first ever footballing hero and now a man I admire for his willingness to speak his mind. Awesome bloke
Two very smart men. Highly experienced. Both with opposing views. Both with very compelling arguments.
An outstanding debate from the pair of them.
I'm sure that despite their differences they both appreciated this 12 rounder. Excellent viewing.
I used to despise Simon especially after he piled in on Man Utd players but I have a lot of respect for him. I don't always agree with him but I respect him. Also let's not forget his role at Palace in breaking through lots of black players but also love him on Jim White's show as they clash in a fiery but NON violent way. Let me also give a huge shout out to John Barnes who has a lot of opinions and is always worth listening to. He is very educated, fiery but respectful as well.
Brilliant content. Looking forward to seeing what other interesting guests Simon has on.
John Barnes is an absolute beast.
Bitter
What an interview, absolutely brilliant watching two eloquent and brilliant minds speaking on topics with maturity.
This was very enjoyable, informative. Enjoyed, respect
Excellent discussion, superb.
Brilliant interview Simon, great guest love Barnes
Society wouldn't accept a black Simon Jordan?
I would say Muhammed Ali and Andrew Tate had and have pretty strong out spoken opinions.
Both have had handcuffs on for their position.
@@innervisionjj Good point.
And Anthony Joshua before he did the Black Lives Matter speech. No one can tell me anything Joshua hasn’t had the same opportunities as everyone else
@@JJ-pl5cj The media like black people doing sports or making gangster music. You need to pay attention dude.
@@innervisionjj Obama, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Candace Owens, numerous black politicians in the UK like Kemi Badeonch, Trevor. McDonald. All successful in ‘intellectual’ jobs
I was glued to this, found John fascinating and off to find another podcast with him on.
Love John Barnes......top man. I'd love to meet him.
A great interview. As a Black man I’ll say the hurdles are there but to invoke change we just have to be willing to take the risks. There’s literally no other choices
Well said. Really like John Barnes but felt like there was these limiting beliefs coming across time and again as to opportunities for black guys. Eventually someone will smash the ceiling and it'll no longer be a thing
Black guys and white guys face the same obstacles. Sometimes talent isn't enough. Sometimes persistence isn't enough. You have to find the right people to give you the opportunities, because if someone doesn't believe in you, black or white, then you'll never get anywhere with them.
@@nigelsmith2457this is lame excuse, just to find the right people is difficult
@@lexkanyima2195 Finding the right people is difficult, I don't disagree. But you can help yourself a lot of the time. Take an interest, connect with the interviewer, build a rapport with them, you can even make them laugh. In short, make them like you. If you go in there with a chip on your shoulder, no one will employ you. You're seen as damaged goods, and no employer wants damaged goods. In the case of John Barnes, he got a good opportunity with Celtic, but it didn't work out. Ever since, he's been pulling out the race card as an excuse for his own failings. No one will touch him now because as soon as things start to go south, there's a danger he'll do it again. He's damaged goods.
@@nigelsmith2457 but Barnes never had a big club since Celtic, can you imagine that ? So he has to restablished that
Superb channel...
So refreshing to here a challenging conversation but with a balance of respect..
Simon has this spot on..
What a great interview loved every minute of it
Great discussion I’ve enjoyed the vast majority of Simon’s posts interviews.
Yes I’m sure if Simon said an African royal family was terribly black it would be no problem and he wouldn’t loose his job instantly 🤷♂️