Prominent CZcamsrs have recently complained about decreasing views on their videos despite high subscriber numbers. Ring the bell: / veritasium Pewdiepie's video: bit.ly/VePewds
I get your point, but the new algorithm also heavily supports clickbait and low quality content. Everytime I look at the German trends I get suicidal ideation.
Moritz M Agreed, same for the Dutch trends tab. If youtube actually recommended me interesting new videos from small channels I'd agree with this video. But all I'm getting is more clickbait allcaps bs marketed towards teenagers
I bet the german trends section is full of videos suggesting migration is good and everyone should love 3rd world migrants and if you disagree, you are racist!
Moritz M its the same problem reddit has. Quick and easy content always rises to the top, since the first 10 and 100 upvotes are the most important... At least we don't have replygirls anymore...
One reason is that there are more and more individuals subscribed to more and more channels, so the real value of each subscription is lower. If I am subscribed to seven channels I could probably see every new video of each channel, but if two years later I am subscribed to seventy channels I won't see all the new videos from those 70 channels. Is is similar as going to a trade fair and taking instead of one or two leaflets, one hundred. You won't phone to all of those companies.
because click bait is what people share. If you don't like it, stop clicking click bait and stop sharing click bait, and encourage friends and family to do the same. If your friends or family send you click bait, reply back "no thanks, not interested in click bait"
In the recommended if you hover over a video it suggests; a dot menu will appear which you can use to tell CZcams you are not interested in the video. After that you can even tell it why you didn't want to watch it.
I don't think that's correct. CZcams wants you to spend more time watching anything (they do not care what), as long as an ad can be shown. If you've already watched a video, it is a strong sign you are interested in it and may be easily convinced to watch it again. It just means more ad revenue.
***** I use adblock also, but that means the creators don't get money from my views, and I usually watch pro content, who make their living on CZcams.but no time for ads and can't get CZcams red, so I remain here either without a conscience, or feeling guilty all the time xD
Or even if channels are posting worthwhile content, people are subscribed to enough channels they can't physically watch everything all of those channels put out. For example, I'm subscribed to channels that collectively put out 20 hours or more per week.
His content is very consistent (consistently boring? that's up to you) and there is always a great postproduction work as well, something highly worth of mention. That's why, I would say, he is on the top. Although his content may be irrelevant to some or not, that's a different matter.
Your comment is kind of irrelevant. People enjoy his content because they can watch it, relax at the end of a day or whatever. I personnaly don't particularely enjoy his content but hey, a bunch of people do. In fact, we could say he's easily the most relevant person on youtube. His content has the same purpose as any lame ass TV show, entertain people.
My point is, shit gets old. People stop watching, and don't bother to unsubscribe. Pewdiepie has not evolved his content and his expiration date is nigh. That is why subs are up and views are down. Pewdiepie will most likely be not be a thing in 5 years. The "I'm deleting my CZcams channel" troll, was a desperate death gasp. Which may work in the short, but will mean nothing in the long of it.
I think we can all see what type of content Pewdie is putting, but your comment has very little to do with this video. Other than the fact that he has grown up his CZcams persona as the years have gone by, this video is about algorithm change which hurts people who have build communities/following and rewarding those who create "50 BOOB PICS" videos.
Recommended videos sometimes get weird though. Like, I watch 2 minutes of a video on channel XYZ, and day later my recommended video thumbnails are full of channel XYZ recommendations even though I only watched a couple of minutes and then clicked away without returning.
Chris Gerow I haven't subscribed to any channel from the recommended, it so weird like fuck you bee movie, I don't fucking like bees so shut up CZcams.
i don't care what CZcams want to promote but they don't need to secretly unsubscribe a channel from me. yeah. they do. i don't know why or what but it happen. no bs. something is in CZcams right now.
Khair NiKlaus I often see channels appearing as if I'm not subscribed to them, but as far as I can tell they all still show up in my subscription tab. For example, I got a little banner at the bottom of my screen when this video was posted, because I had the CZcams app open, and I didn't tap it before it disappeared, so I went to my subscription tab and there it was. When I opened the video, the subscribe button below it was red, as if I wasn't subscribed, but clearly I was because it showed up in my subscriptions. This happens to me quite regularly.
please elaborate. He said things like his vlog videos weren't getting as many views as he was used to. He wanted CZcams to bring back the sub feed as the main source for video discovery.
His problem was that he thinks his videos arent reaching his viewer base. basically, they dont show up on your subscription feed. He doesnt really have a problem with it not showing up on the recommended section
He's a millionaire already, he doesn't care about the adsense, it's about reaching the audience. Which is not happening because of youtube. It's not that people are less interested either, it wasn't a gradual change over months, it was almost an over night thing. ~2 million people don't just change their minds over night.
even the 2 million is a big stretch. He should be grateful. He's basically an accidental monopoly caused by a loophole in the algorhythm in the first place.
I watched a couple minutes of one of his videos. Complete garbage. He should take the 10's of millions that he's made and run. He's the largest fraud in the history of the world (thanks to CZcams).
Fraud? How so? Creating content people actually want to watch? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean millions of other don't. Plus you watched "a couple minutes of one of his videos." I wouldn't call that enough to really form a judgement. Depending on which one you watched, PewDiePie would probably agree with you anyway. lol
Wes Tolson just most people find that there's not anything unique, and just rode a random lottery ticket of youtube putting his videos up, then more people watching, repeat cycle...he's got pretty high number of dislikes on each video but youtube onyl cares about views, and he gets views because he's on the front page. But yeh in the population of the internet 50mil is not so big, and 10% of that who actually watch a particular video....its just where's the second, third, even 100th pewdiepie who has exactly the same mediochre talent, no problem with liking it, but there are those doing the same much better buried becase the algorythms work against them.
jorgepeterbarton So because he has hundreds of people imitating him on account of his success, that makes him just like the rest of them? That doesn't make much sense to me. Yeah CZcams is polluted with a lot of garbage gaming channels of people with bland personalities, but he's actually quite entertaining for MANY people. And dislikes on videos don't really factor in here. The more views you get. The more dislikes you get simply because there are more people. Find me one video with over a million views and zero dislikes and I would be very impressed. They still watched the video, or at least clicked it. You said he has mediocre talent, but clearly if has been able to do this so long he's had to be good at it, no? I just really don't think you are being logical here. You have to understand that just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it bad.
*be in parking lot* "are you making a video" "yeah for my youtube channel" "what is the video about?" "youtube's declining views with new algorithm change" "...wat"
One thing I DON't like about their algorithm is I get a ton of suggested videos based one that I watched to the exclusion of any new videos by people I have subscribed to.
Go to your history (and even search history) and remove videos that you don't want influencing the recommendation algorithms. It's that easy. Or if you don't like the notion of suggested videos, you can clear your full history and change your settings to stop keeping track of what you watch. But then you'll really get nothing but click bait garbage.
John Howard You can turn autoplay off, there's a button to do so above the suggestions. Once you've done that, the suggestions there wont do any harm. For the suggestions on the homepage, when you mouse over the title a verticle row of three dots will appear right of the title, click that and then click not interested. Then click "tell us why" and chose the appropriate option. Its not perfect, but it does help
in terms of getting videos from your subscription list, the is a completely separate tab on top that is dedicated that. Sher it one more click, but if the default recomendation/home page holds litle interest, the I hope over to my sub. feed.
Exploding_Potato probably 10,000+ to 500,000. 500,000+ ther're a big CZcamsr. But ya I would say under 10,000 would be small since there videos can't really gain traction just off their subs. Small CZcamsrs need 3rd party sites or help from bigger CZcamsrs to grow.
The problem is that I have almost 1000 subscribers now. Before the last CZcams update when I had less than 500 subscribers, I was getting on around 300 views per video. Now I barely get 50 views with twice as many subscribers. As a viewer, it's ridiculously hard to even find the last channel I subscribed to. It doesn't show my subscriptions anymore on my customized home page feed. On top of that, views have gone down because sits like Facebook and Twitter don't show the video prominently anymore, as they feature their own video platform over CZcams. Post a video link on Facebook and it will be at the bottom of everyone's feeds. I'm subscribed to Veritasium on CZcams, but I only get referred to Derek's videos from Twitter. The only videos I get referred to on CZcams are all junk countdowns with sensational headlines. Worst of all is that they're all copied videos from each other with no original content (ie lifehacks, etc).
This doesn't really sound accurate to what Pewdiepie and others are complaining about. Also, the biggest problem with this, for the future of this site, is that this algorithm promotes viral, clickbait videos. I think this is bad overall for CZcams.
SilverEye How does it not sound accurate? they're saying the same things, Ve just tries to explain them in a different way than 'the fuck CZcams change it back'
I notice a rise in clickbait too, BUT if a video doesn't get watched and often ends someone's CZcams session it will be punished in the algorithm. So it seems like any rise in clickbait is due to videos that people watch and keep on watching afterwards, in which case it's not really clickbait.
I agree with your last observance. CZcams and other Internet companies have either no moral, or a very crude one: The lowest instincts of groups albeit all institutional control leads to the best result. That is why CZcams likes good and trash content equally. All they want is people to watch and spend time on the site.
They are biased since their livelihood kinda rests on the old model. This new way is WAYYYYY better than getting every pewdiepie video in your recommended.
It works-ish, but it doesn't mean you'll get a phone notification for every upload and if you don't go to your sub tab then you might miss content from channels you're subscribed to.
I definitely feel the videos promoted to me are much more interesting and relevant than a couple of months ago. I never used to click the recommended videos and now I do all the time (this video was a recommendation for example, not subbed).
I'm still confused. Are people not seeing all their subs in the subscription section? I don't seem to have this issue and I'm subbed to about 200 channels.
daniel117100 When I say "Don't seem" above I do not mean I haven't noticed. I mean I've specifically gone and looked at channels I sub to to see what videos I am missing and don't see any.
William Brall most people arent affected but there are thousands of complaints of this happening. Just cause it doesnt happen to you, it doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. cheers
It's nice to hear a sound theory and possible explanation for this. Thank you. I think it's interesting that youtube would not favor creator's videos anymore and instead, choose to promote what's trending. It may get youtube more views, short term, but at what cost? Typically, I would want to promote the people that make me money. I don't give a dedicated employee who I pay $20 dollars an hour a lesser wage eventually. They will quit. Even though that lesser wage puts more money in my pocket, temporarily, it will, ultimately, generate me less revenue. Cutting open the duck that lays golden eggs. I know I may be responding to a completely false reason for youtube doing this, but it feels worth saying.
Před 7 lety+16
Have you seen MatPat's video on the same topic? He did some research and numbers on what's actually going on, and it seems to agree in part with what you said.
Another element I didn't hear you mention is when one clicks on a recommended video an ad plays (or is prompted to play). Ads generally don't play when one is just randomly selecting videos, or randomly viewing a channel.
Thanks mate, a very interesting cover of the behavior of modern communication and sharing and informing and, well, you get it. It's always fascinating to hear of a behavior change or adaptation from a knowledgeable source. Btw, where were you walking during that blog? It was a fascinating backdrop to your speech. I kept being distracted by some beautiful imagery and buildings and grave sites (?)
I used to think that the system was designed to make the bigger even bigger and make it even harder for the smaller to get bigger. But now it seems like its giving everyone a fair chance, which is good. Kind of feels like its trying to go against the pareto principle though.
Actually, the entire uproar was because the changes are destroying many smaller channels and supporting clickbait. Pewdiepie and Jacksepticeye aren't talking about themselves, they've both been in talks with youtube mostly on behalf of the smaller channels to whom those losses of subscribers can really put a dent in.
tbh ive seen this hit some small channels (particularly animation) pretty hard, and yet i see buzzfeed and jimmy kimmel, aka corporately-backed channels, all over the trending page
I think this is a TV-like problem Years ago, people were relatively new to the platform, they were looking for content, when there was a lot less of it. People's feeds would be noticeably changed when a new video came. Currently, im guessing some people didnt manage their youtube subscriptions properly so they have lots and lots of subs, churning out videos to their feed all the time, so the novelty of one particular channel gets lost with the noise, noise that they probably dont watch either. I regularly see myself deleting silly subscriptions that drop too many videos and clutter my feed, or those who simply i dont really watch, or their content has become recurrent or flat out boring. So I avoid having cable tv on my youtube. You know, lots of channels i dont really watch, that take away the joy of having the highly enjoyable content you love. I think poor managing turns into lots of irrelevant stuff in your information flow, and overload makes for boring. EDIT: just for curiosity, how many people do you subscribe to? post in the comments :) i have around 20-30 channels, and i watch probably about 3/4 videos in my Subscriptions feed
Nacho Chips Same here. Slightly more than 100, many channels haven't uploaded in a while/ are second or third (or sixth for Brady) channels from the same creator
Sev'rance Tann Zero. I've been watching CZcams for almost a decade now and I still don't like subbing because I don't want constant notifications, especially since some of the first channels I watched were channels that would post 2-5 videos a day or at least daily. I also like the idea of just finding some new channels through recommendations all the time. I remember most of the channels I use to frequent so if I fall off, it's kind of nice because that means I get to binge watch videos and if I forget it's only takes a few choice searches to find them again. It also helps that I'm the type who shares video a lot so, even if I do fall out, when I come back I don't mind trying to help support the channel. I just really like sharing and finding new content.
~110 subs here. In the past day, 29 videos total were uploaded from them, averaging somewhere around the 15-20 minutes range. If you take away the channels that upload less often than once a day, I'd imagine my subscription feed would be at or less than half of what it is now. I probably watch around 3/4, give or take 1/4, of the videos in my feed on a normal day. As for managing my feed, I do have a "purge" every half year or so where I go through my subscriptions and clear out any I don't watch anymore, which does help manage the amount of videos I have on the subs feed.
Would love to have access to a detailed,ongoing breakdown. Things like how much revenue comes from the few big vs. the many small. Love the diverse (and yes,want to support)
sewagii There is already section where they are sorted by date. I want it to be exactly like new default page, but without recommendations. Old style CZcams. This recommendations are again influenced by CZcams, just like search results are influenced by Google. Everyone knows what happened with Google censorship of latest US elections. This is the reason why I don't want any kind of "recommendations" from Google here.
It's already there. There should be _no_ recommendations, only a grid of videos from all subscribed channels, sorted chronologically. Forget "new default page" (Home). Pretend it doesn't exist. Click Subscriptions. The URL will be czcams.com/users/feedsubscriptions I find the recommendations shown during video playback quite good overall. They are largely from related channels I am subscribed to. Most recommendations are at least related to the topic of the video currently playing. There's usually a recommendation or two on another unrelated topic of interest to me, and a couple that seem to be random from large channels I don't care for. I absolutely never touch any "trending" type of rubbish. The idea of watching things only because they are deemed popular makes my skin crawl.
they just need to sort it out. But for them there's no short-term advantage to sorting out reccomendations. No capital of people watching actual videos that hold their interest, instead of flicking through tons in a time-wasting manner. TV did this for 60 years. People to zone out in some vaccuus state is no secret or conspiracy, it gets more viewtime. Reccomendations is turning into 'trending plus shit you've already watched and probably disliked' though, i think if they push too far there are long term consequences. I use vimeo now for videos of any content, i'm very much on here to procrastinate. I can't find them on youtube. e.g. veritasium is ok, but its not like some full documentary, its a digestable chunk of info.
jorgepeterbarton I completely agree when it comes to TV. Hell, even if my fav show is on, I'll gladly wait an hour for it to record on the DVR, so I can play it back and skip through the ads and such. ;) Ads, for me, are very much a deterrent. That's why I have ad-blocker. Any websites that tell me to block the blocker are simply blocked from my interest. XD
I am actually glad they are moving away from the sub model. Over the years I have subbed to numerous channels and don't really get around to removing those I have lost interest in. (There is no quick way to just clean up sub list). To top it off the sub list has become unwieldy and a pain to scour. This was becoming a problem and pushed me away from CZcams for entertainment, as had my entire front page filled with channels I lost interest in or were not what I thought they would be and too lazy to go back and fix it. Luckily your videos along with Mental Floss, Vsauce, do show up regularly in my feeds. Keep up the good work and bringing hours of something me and my family enjoy and share among our circles.
Advertising is not necessarily evil. The alternative is forcing you to use products, via company "enforcers" or government mandates, rather than attempting to entice you to purchase of your own free will. Ads CAN be evil or used to harm people, but so can water.
Dwight House Maybe it would in a sense be better to have an enforcer that forced you to consume (although I really can't see that as the alternative to advertising). You could at least recognise that tyranny instead of becoming a mindless, domesticated consumer. I just read an interesting novel by Aldous Huxley, Brave New World. That's a perfect example of a tyrannical society that without any kind of physical violence completely controls it's docile people with the philosophy that you should not only get whatever you want, but also want whatever is provided.
"You could at least recognise that tyranny instead of becoming a mindless, domesticated consumer." Speak for yourself. I block ads, but I also understand the benefits of capitalism. I much prefer the choice of enticement over direct control.
You are right. And, now... I am suddenly subscribed to many other channels that I don't know existed at all. People check it! Agorithm (lets call it Matrix) subscribing you to other channels without your knowledge.
The source from which people get their information is steadily moving to alternative sources like the internet, especially youtube. If you think about the process of getting something on TV (has to run through special interests before being aired) vs the process of posting something on youtube (virtually no ideologically restrictions), the difference becomes obvious. Free exchange of ideas is a huge problem for the big boys up top. It's only a matter of time before CZcams gets raped out of existence. (just look at the new notification system as an example)
Maybe not the complete reason but he was on Swedish Telvevision for Nobel week, see www.svtplay.se/video/11483386/nobelstudion/nobelstudion-9-dec-20-00-textat and scroll to 55 minutes approx (just a couple of minutes).
What CZcams offers me tends to reflect what I've been watching the past days or even hours. It can be a little annoying. Just because you just ate dessert doesn't mean you want to be offered a lot more dessert options.
This actually makes a lot of sense. As a small CZcamsr who has just found an avenue of videos that people watch I've seen my channel expand almost exponentially recently. It's helped me out a lot and makes me want to make more content. It seems to recommend videos based on what you watch and similar videos. For me, subscriptions have become a list of channels and creators I like to keep track of. It could be companies I really like or people I find really funny. I don't think I watch every video of any creator unless maybe they're a friend of mine.
I suspect the declining numbers is easy to explain: 1) Increasing competition, 2) Decreasing interest in CZcams in general.... CZcams isn't a fad anymore.
What you say would be fine if it actually worked. I get suggested the same stuff all the time, including the same channels that I have never watched. I actually find it really hard to find new videos and channels that I like because all I ever see is the existing channels that I'm subscribed to and a bunch of other stuff that stays more or less the same that I never watch.
Jeroen Bollen It can be okay but mine is pretty much full of stuff from channels I already watch or stuff I've already decided I don't want to watch. I suppose I could go through it all and click "not interested"
Yeah, not only is the suggested stuff crap, but the searches are crap as well. It's like comparing the Google search engine to Yahoo search engine. X'D
You do. But if you watch Pewdiepies videos on the subject he does a breakdown of the stats of his videos. Most people will not use the subscription feed to watch the videos.
Yeah that is what I thought. but I saw multiple videos, where people were complaining about videos not showing up. (creators as well) that´s why they tell you, that you should enable notifications. I usually watch all videos in my sub-box, so that might be why, I didn't notice videos missing.
+Tomisoka CZ That's BS. If you're subscribed then it will show on your subs page. If videos from a channel you're subscribed to aren't showing on the subscriptions page (not front page) then you should report the _bug_ in the stickied thread in the CZcams Help Forum. YT doesn't care if a video topic is controversial if it's coming from your subscriptions, they're only going to filter like that for channels you're not subbed to.
I watched your video because I have watched my view count decline from 1 50K average down to a 15K average. It has made me feel like crap about myself and my channel. My question is HOW DO I FIX IT? I post this comment in sheer desperation.
I hear CZcams will make an extra feature for the bell, so that you can get quicker updates if you tick the bell of the bell. Next time, when you tick the bell of the bell of the bell people might see the videos of those they have subscribed to.
+Tech of Tomorrow Make it explicit to your subscribers that they should click the bell to not miss a video of yours. Over time, the views will hopefully increase.
It seems like two of the most important factors in the algorithm should be watch time and the ratio of non-subscribers who subscribe to a channel based on watching a video. If people are watching a ways into the video then they're interested, and if a lot of people subscribe to a channel based on watching a particular video then it must be a pretty darned good video. And then after that should be the click through rate and engagement such as comments, thumbs up, shares, etc.
Not really. In Canada MySpace never really died, it kinda just faded out of style. When all the younger people were migrating to Facebook, I still knew plenty of people who had never used social media and all of my American friends were still on MySpace and that was around 2010. I think it was 2012 when Facebook really blew up (from my perspective) which is also the year they went public.
excellent video, couldn't have explained it any better; I think youtube in the end is changing for the better. Maybe the issue could be that single person channels are now put under such intense pressure to put out videos all the time which in the end could lower the quality of their videos. But in the long run, the overall system (like you said) would promote young "entrepreneurs" into the youtube battle arena.
Recently i am recommended videos that i have no interest in, most of them seem to be clickbait and low quality(and plastered with ads). not happy with the changes overall. also alot of the channels i watch on a regular basis fail to even show up in my subscription feed. However i do see where you are coming from to some degree.
I hear you and Pewdiepie on the clickbait issue. The system CZcams has setup now is more susceptible to clickbait and I'm sure they will be tweaking the algorithm to try to reduce that. But when subs mean less, other factors count for more. The big winners I notice in the new system are late night shows, carpool karaoke etc.
Focusing on maximizing profit means targeting the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately most of the general public don't seem to be very intelligent.
One thing that is bizarre to me is videos not showing up inte the subscription feed. To my experience it has never happened. Sometimes its delayed and it takes an extra hour or two until it pops up but it always shows up.
Could someone clarify something for me? Can I still trust the "subscription feed" page to show me every new video from my subscriptions? Or should I use the little bell systematically for each channel that I watch? I've heard that for some people new videos didn't always came up in the feed, but I don't have the feeling that it's the case for me.
To understand a point, for example, transistor, I try to watch several creators and usually encounter 3 or 4 perspectives on the subject that brings the understanding of the point to me. I think it's the 'track' that should be shared. Each 'track' leads each person with different levels of knowledge to a higher level of understanding about the subject! So, I agree with you about the plurality of creators. Thanks 2veritasium!
I used to watch every Veritasium video but now only watch around half. This pretty much happens with every one of my subscriptions... very interested at the start and then interest wanes over time or I find other things I want to watch.
A few months before this video, I found that I was missing Veritasium videos in my feed so I went through and clicked the alarm bell of my favourite 5-10 channel subscriptions. It seems counter intuitive to have to do that as well as subscribing, but I suppose the system is better now. I'm guessing that the majority of youtube users don't realize that the alarm bell feature exists, or why that need to use it yet.
Not related to this video, but i was surprised to see you being in my hometown- (I even saw some of my friends in the video from KTH). Hope you enjoyed Stockholm! Also want to thank you for highlighting the importance of fake news in social media, very interesting to hear
I agree with you. That's why starting from some time ago, when I wanted to search about some information but don't want to get recommended by that kind of information in the future, I open it in incognito mode.
It is only good if your users watch your video from start to finish. Liking a video does practically nothing so don't fall into that trap. Also, current algo focuses on age, so new stuff and low view counts is what matters. Furthermore, if people ignore your video from recommended list then your videos will slowly fade away and you will disappear from their view.
News stuff and low view count? Really? 'cause I feel like I have seen the opposite. Most of what shows up in the recommended section at the right are old videos with a lot of views. Same with the home page.
SilverEye Yes that is the idea behind latest algorithm. Age plays a massive role. It focuses on you and your preferences. Goes into your history and pulls the best "co-watch" videos into your recommended feed. It doesn't actually show you the newest and latest in youtube in general. It shows you videos that you have watched before and tries to make a new link to those (basically videos that other people have watched after this and so on). That is where the recommended feed really comes from. If you don't have sufficient amount of history then it follows other default parameters like your location, gender and other shit new users have to deal with. It all basically starts from your watch list and your search list history. That is where it gets the initial candidates, which it finally ranks. Also, current algorithm is built to accept videos from other sources too - from anything they setup: so this can be anything in their configuration - to some biggest earners in youtube to plain out paid partners & advertisers etc... In general, it is nothing new. It is like netflix, it follows you around and doesn't care much about ratings but focuses on what you actually watch (focuses on start to finish videos). Like and other explicit factors like that should be very low priority in the parameters chain, just FYI.
CapMurd That is how I figured it worked but thanks for the detailed breakdown. But I think that is a bit of a problem because I practically never see anyone new so I don't know how this would help smaller channels. Or new videos from people I follow for that matter. It doesn't matter to me because I watch the subscription feed more than anything. But clearly this isn't what everyone will do. And Pewdiepies breakdown clearly showed this where he dropped from 30% to just a few percent from recommended on new videos.
My thoughts for what they are worth... So first off I am a subscriber and have enjoyed all or most of your videos. I just find that the number of people I subscribe too continues to grow. If I compare you tube to TV...there is only so much much you can watch in a week. I would say a majority of the videos I watch are movie, hiking/camping, cycling ones. I definitely continue to get alerts from my favorite you tubers...and i may pick and choose depending on the topic whether I watch it. Who knows maybe You Tube channels are like TV shows...even mega popular shows like CSI eventually lose their audience, as people grow or their interests shift to other things. On a seperate note...love your channel, always great to learn new things.
I notice that my views of some of the channels I subscribe to lessens over time. For instance, if it's a channel about tasting food... over time the topic becomes redundant (similar food, similar surroundings, etc). I'll still click on the older channels I subscribe to when I see a topic that seems to be a fresh perspective. Also, some of the channels have become annoying over time. Perhaps they are running out of topics, or they are just getting more and more silly, or venting so much they never get to the point. Is that because they become bored with their own format? I think so. Over all, I'd say that my viewing habits on CZcams hasn't lessened, because as I become used to the old subscriptions, I'm just adding more.
Great video! CZcams is more content quality driven now and my channel is one of the ones that have benefitted from the new algorithm. Hope to collab with you soon, Derek! Cheers!
Id rather discuss about overall content quality being worse and worse as a whole in youtube as evident by the extremely bad rewind video this year. click bait, pranks, fake news, fake pranks, (by fake i mean depicted as real), etc etc...
Hello Sir, what should i do when somebady reports me on facebook and after that facebook is not allowing me to share my blog articles on face it shows a pop up that you can't post this article because this article was reported by someone Sir please help me out to fix it up
i really enjoyed you talking about a topic while interacting with your surrounding. Never realized you are actually a professor teacher what ever but that classroom shot was awesome!
This doesn't address view counts reduced on old videos each time the channel posts a new one --- penalizing HARD frequent posters on their GENUINELY SUCCESSFUL videos.
youtube funnels major views to some people , now its time for youtube to level the playing field, and change the algorithm so it shares more views with smaller channels.
Seems like the new way of doing things is going to favor creators who can pump out content every single day, instead of the small team making well thought out content once a week or less.
The suggested videos these days also often suddenly get videos of people that have little to no subscribers or views, and that for weeks or months on a video, and suddenly their views spike enormously. I have seen lots of creators even asking in the comments about that, and hundreds of people say it was just in the recommended. It seems the algorithm tries to find new things that people might like too. Additionally I think the way it currently works with finding things you like is shite. It does take into account mostly only the stuff you last clicked on and then thinks you want all your feed to be of that. I showed my daughter some cartoon while we were waiting one day, and for several days half of my suggested feed was full of these cartoons, and right after we watched that video, it was like 10 from exactly the same channel
PewDiePie doesn't seem to understand a few things: 1) He's PewDiePie. The vast majority of his subs are people who sub to him just because he's PewDiePie. They just want to see that sub counter increase and probably don't care much for his content. 2) That his content and gimmick has an expiration date. 3) That subs don't matter. A huge sub count doesn't automatically mean huge view counts. If a CZcamsr can get 10% of the sub count as views it's considered good. Again, the reason why he doesn't get that sub to view ratio is because of what I wrote above.
It seems like every youtuber started making lower quality content to publish daily vlogs so they grow their channels but the quality of the videos declined a lot. I hope like you said, that this will help us small youtubers to get more noticed and promote videos with better content and not just video diaries everywhere... then maybe big youtubers will start to make better content again :)
+2veritasium Does this relate to issues with the new "progress bar" indicator (the red line below each "watched" vid, supposedly showing how much of that vid you actually watched)? Since it was released a few weeks ago, I no longer see my viewed thumbnails consistently marked as "watched", despite having watched the ENTIRE video. I like to know which vids I've already watched, and it bugs me to see better than 75% of watched vids only counting as partial views. Most often, the progress bar shows around 80% complete, despite my having watched every frame of that video, nor does it show the "watched" banner either. If it isn't showing as watched for me, maybe it isn't showing as watched for the channel owner either? That would readily explain a sudden plummet in "counted" views.
I just wanna say that I'm happy about the change in the algorithm because without it I would have never found this channel and so far I think it's great!
Does any of this effect /feed/subscriptions ? I've had no issues watching all the content the people I follow put out I just click on the subscriptions tab and their all there in chronological order.
Is their revenue metric video views or number of minutes spent watching/on site? Each view represents a reloading of the advertisement (and another chance for user click through to the advertisers website). Antonio Garcia Martinez wrote an interesting book tangentially related to that.
The big thing that PewDiePie and others complain about is something I have noticed. I peruse my video feed very casually, and watch what piques my interest. I recently noticed that I was no longer subscribed to channels like Veritasium, Vsauce, and some others. It also made me realize that I hadn't seen them in my feed for a while. Why is CZcams suddenly telling people what to like? I mean, they didn't remove my subs to AvE, BigClive, and other lower-production channels. As a viewer, I feel a little violated that "the system" is deciding who I should and shouldn't like.
I think there's also something to be said for there are just being more and more videos. Additionally, does this trend correspond to the recent American election? I would assume that with more people focussed on other news, there may be a diffusing of what people usually watch. Just a thought.
I get your point, but the new algorithm also heavily supports clickbait and low quality content.
Everytime I look at the German trends I get suicidal ideation.
Moritz M Agreed, same for the Dutch trends tab. If youtube actually recommended me interesting new videos from small channels I'd agree with this video. But all I'm getting is more clickbait allcaps bs marketed towards teenagers
Holy shit, yes.
I bet the german trends section is full of videos suggesting migration is good and everyone should love 3rd world migrants and if you disagree, you are racist!
and cancerous vlogs
Moritz M
its the same problem reddit has. Quick and easy content always rises to the top, since the first 10 and 100 upvotes are the most important...
At least we don't have replygirls anymore...
youtube should allow users to block youtube channels. I am sick of being recommended shit that I hate.
Also, when I dislike a video but it still plays on autoplay.
Azitock Totally agree!
There is the "..." button when you hover over things. Click that then click "not interested".
You can already do that. To add onto what x anon said, there is a "tell me why" section, and you can click "I'm not interested in this channel".
That "not interested" button is totally ignored. Still get suggestions for similar videos, even from the same channel. It's just a placebo button.
One reason is that there are more and more individuals subscribed to more and more channels, so the real value of each subscription is lower. If I am subscribed to seven channels I could probably see every new video of each channel, but if two years later I am subscribed to seventy channels I won't see all the new videos from those 70 channels. Is is similar as going to a trade fair and taking instead of one or two leaflets, one hundred. You won't phone to all of those companies.
Congratulations: You've got the 42th d (8)
I guess I'm lucky. My channel has still been growing steadily.
good for you
Oops, now it's not!
@@simran310i i mean its enevitable . Nothing built last forever
the front page is all shitty click bait right now
Un7ucky mine isn't, but whenever a clickbaity suggestion does creep in I flag it as not interested.
Me too, after a while of doing that youtube learns to not recommend you clickbait
Un7ucky That's another thing, alot of posters are using more and more clickbait.
because click bait is what people share. If you don't like it, stop clicking click bait and stop sharing click bait, and encourage friends and family to do the same. If your friends or family send you click bait, reply back "no thanks, not interested in click bait"
In the recommended if you hover over a video it suggests; a dot menu will appear which you can use to tell CZcams you are not interested in the video. After that you can even tell it why you didn't want to watch it.
if CZcams wants me to watch more videos on the site, why are they showing me recommendations I already watched?
I don't think that's correct. CZcams wants you to spend more time watching anything (they do not care what), as long as an ad can be shown. If you've already watched a video, it is a strong sign you are interested in it and may be easily convinced to watch it again. It just means more ad revenue.
pillsnotbills im not a good human being...about ads i mean. i would pay for youtube red, but wont pay with my time...if you catch my drift
***** I don't use that, I have play music all access instead. aren't you tired of ads disturbing your music yet?
***** I use adblock also, but that means the creators don't get money from my views, and I usually watch pro content, who make their living on CZcams.but no time for ads and can't get CZcams red, so I remain here either without a conscience, or feeling guilty all the time xD
+Ujvári Mátyás I just got used to ads and they don't interrupt me mid song tho so idc
Trending might as well be labeled "Paid Promotions"
Views are declining because most channels are churning out even MORE click bait than they were, and people don't fall for it anymore.
yeanaa.
Or even if channels are posting worthwhile content, people are subscribed to enough channels they can't physically watch everything all of those channels put out.
For example, I'm subscribed to channels that collectively put out 20 hours or more per week.
i am subscribbled to loic 2000 POOS!
I dont click anything with BIG, POINTY, "RED ARROW" in the video! They are very very annoying! And the sad part is that nearly every video has that.
Couldn't agree more!
If you watch one Pewdiepie vid you have watched them all. His irrelevances is long over due.
His content is very consistent (consistently boring? that's up to you) and there is always a great postproduction work as well, something highly worth of mention. That's why, I would say, he is on the top.
Although his content may be irrelevant to some or not, that's a different matter.
Your comment is kind of irrelevant. People enjoy his content because they can watch it, relax at the end of a day or whatever. I personnaly don't particularely enjoy his content but hey, a bunch of people do. In fact, we could say he's easily the most relevant person on youtube. His content has the same purpose as any lame ass TV show, entertain people.
he is on top because of his viewers/subs demographic. Basically they are young gamers who get blown away by shitty content
My point is, shit gets old. People stop watching, and don't bother to unsubscribe. Pewdiepie has not evolved his content and his expiration date is nigh. That is why subs are up and views are down. Pewdiepie will most likely be not be a thing in 5 years. The "I'm deleting my CZcams channel" troll, was a desperate death gasp. Which may work in the short, but will mean nothing in the long of it.
I think we can all see what type of content Pewdie is putting, but your comment has very little to do with this video. Other than the fact that he has grown up his CZcams persona as the years have gone by, this video is about algorithm change which hurts people who have build communities/following and rewarding those who create "50 BOOB PICS" videos.
reccommended vids are getting better, im regularly discovering new channels to add to my feed. that said interface issues are still serious.
Recommended videos sometimes get weird though. Like, I watch 2 minutes of a video on channel XYZ, and day later my recommended video thumbnails are full of channel XYZ recommendations even though I only watched a couple of minutes and then clicked away without returning.
Chris Gerow same I like how CZcams is recommending stuff to me
I've noticed that too.
Chris Gerow I haven't subscribed to any channel from the recommended, it so weird like fuck you bee movie, I don't fucking like bees so shut up CZcams.
+Dark Awd I think youtube knows you better than you know yourself
Probably the most sensible thing I've heard about the whole CZcams-View controversy. Can someone send this to H3H3?
You want more of this???
Good point. CZcams made some very early adapters famous without having good content
Hey Harald.
i don't care what CZcams want to promote but they don't need to secretly unsubscribe a channel from me. yeah. they do. i don't know why or what but it happen. no bs. something is in CZcams right now.
Khair NiKlaus I often see channels appearing as if I'm not subscribed to them, but as far as I can tell they all still show up in my subscription tab. For example, I got a little banner at the bottom of my screen when this video was posted, because I had the CZcams app open, and I didn't tap it before it disappeared, so I went to my subscription tab and there it was. When I opened the video, the subscribe button below it was red, as if I wasn't subscribed, but clearly I was because it showed up in my subscriptions. This happens to me quite regularly.
If you have been unsubscribed, please report the bug in the stickied thread in the CZcams Help Forum.
In fairness to CZcams I think that is just a bug.
how the hell are you verified with only 59 subs?!?!?!??!
I'm a Google top contributor.
I think you didnt really understand the video of Pewdiepie
WannaBeMLG agreed
please elaborate. He said things like his vlog videos weren't getting as many views as he was used to. He wanted CZcams to bring back the sub feed as the main source for video discovery.
he said he is fine with most his view count but he said he feels like he has a responsibility to talk about it for everyone else on youtube
His problem was that he thinks his videos arent reaching his viewer base. basically, they dont show up on your subscription feed. He doesnt really have a problem with it not showing up on the recommended section
He's a millionaire already, he doesn't care about the adsense, it's about reaching the audience. Which is not happening because of youtube. It's not that people are less interested either, it wasn't a gradual change over months, it was almost an over night thing. ~2 million people don't just change their minds over night.
Maybe no-one wants to watch Pew-Di-Pie scream like a 4 year old and play video games anymore?
even the 2 million is a big stretch. He should be grateful. He's basically an accidental monopoly caused by a loophole in the algorhythm in the first place.
I watched a couple minutes of one of his videos. Complete garbage. He should take the 10's of millions that he's made and run. He's the largest fraud in the history of the world (thanks to CZcams).
Fraud? How so? Creating content people actually want to watch? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean millions of other don't. Plus you watched "a couple minutes of one of his videos." I wouldn't call that enough to really form a judgement. Depending on which one you watched, PewDiePie would probably agree with you anyway. lol
Wes Tolson just most people find that there's not anything unique, and just rode a random lottery ticket of youtube putting his videos up, then more people watching, repeat cycle...he's got pretty high number of dislikes on each video but youtube onyl cares about views, and he gets views because he's on the front page. But yeh in the population of the internet 50mil is not so big, and 10% of that who actually watch a particular video....its just where's the second, third, even 100th pewdiepie who has exactly the same mediochre talent, no problem with liking it, but there are those doing the same much better buried becase the algorythms work against them.
jorgepeterbarton So because he has hundreds of people imitating him on account of his success, that makes him just like the rest of them? That doesn't make much sense to me. Yeah CZcams is polluted with a lot of garbage gaming channels of people with bland personalities, but he's actually quite entertaining for MANY people. And dislikes on videos don't really factor in here. The more views you get. The more dislikes you get simply because there are more people. Find me one video with over a million views and zero dislikes and I would be very impressed. They still watched the video, or at least clicked it. You said he has mediocre talent, but clearly if has been able to do this so long he's had to be good at it, no? I just really don't think you are being logical here. You have to understand that just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it bad.
*be in parking lot*
"are you making a video"
"yeah for my youtube channel"
"what is the video about?"
"youtube's declining views with new algorithm change"
"...wat"
One thing I DON't like about their algorithm is I get a ton of suggested videos based one that I watched to the exclusion of any new videos by people I have subscribed to.
Don`t fall asleep while have auto next turned on, it will ruin your suggested videos feed forever...
+Rondo Cat Just dont have auto next on in the first place
Go to your history (and even search history) and remove videos that you don't want influencing the recommendation algorithms. It's that easy.
Or if you don't like the notion of suggested videos, you can clear your full history and change your settings to stop keeping track of what you watch. But then you'll really get nothing but click bait garbage.
John Howard You can turn autoplay off, there's a button to do so above the suggestions. Once you've done that, the suggestions there wont do any harm. For the suggestions on the homepage, when you mouse over the title a verticle row of three dots will appear right of the title, click that and then click not interested. Then click "tell us why" and chose the appropriate option. Its not perfect, but it does help
in terms of getting videos from your subscription list, the is a completely separate tab on top that is dedicated that. Sher it one more click, but if the default recomendation/home page holds litle interest, the I hope over to my sub. feed.
This doesn't help small CZcamsrs, it helps medium sized CZcamsrs whom have a couple thousand subscribers.
Exploding_Potato that is small relative to 50 million subs
So what do you think counts as a medium amount?
Exploding_Potato probably 10,000+ to 500,000. 500,000+ ther're a big CZcamsr. But ya I would say under 10,000 would be small since there videos can't really gain traction just off their subs. Small CZcamsrs need 3rd party sites or help from bigger CZcamsrs to grow.
That's what I said. People with less than a couple thousand subscribers are small CZcamsrs and this doesn't help them.
who*
CZcams has no fun craze right now. People are making videos about nothing or "vlogging " their vanity.
The problem is that I have almost 1000 subscribers now. Before the last CZcams update when I had less than 500 subscribers, I was getting on around 300 views per video. Now I barely get 50 views with twice as many subscribers.
As a viewer, it's ridiculously hard to even find the last channel I subscribed to. It doesn't show my subscriptions anymore on my customized home page feed.
On top of that, views have gone down because sits like Facebook and Twitter don't show the video prominently anymore, as they feature their own video platform over CZcams. Post a video link on Facebook and it will be at the bottom of everyone's feeds.
I'm subscribed to Veritasium on CZcams, but I only get referred to Derek's videos from Twitter.
The only videos I get referred to on CZcams are all junk countdowns with sensational headlines. Worst of all is that they're all copied videos from each other with no original content (ie lifehacks, etc).
This doesn't really sound accurate to what Pewdiepie and others are complaining about.
Also, the biggest problem with this, for the future of this site, is that this algorithm promotes viral, clickbait videos. I think this is bad overall for CZcams.
SilverEye How does it not sound accurate? they're saying the same things, Ve just tries to explain them in a different way than 'the fuck CZcams change it back'
SilverEye I've only seen those click bait videos on the trending part of youtube. And who even uses that anyway?
I notice a rise in clickbait too, BUT if a video doesn't get watched and often ends someone's CZcams session it will be punished in the algorithm. So it seems like any rise in clickbait is due to videos that people watch and keep on watching afterwards, in which case it's not really clickbait.
I agree with your last observance.
CZcams and other Internet companies have either no moral, or a very crude one: The lowest instincts of groups albeit all institutional control leads to the best result.
That is why CZcams likes good and trash content equally. All they want is people to watch and spend time on the site.
They are biased since their livelihood kinda rests on the old model. This new way is WAYYYYY better than getting every pewdiepie video in your recommended.
why do we need to bell creators? Subscription tab doesn't work any more?
It works-ish, but it doesn't mean you'll get a phone notification for every upload and if you don't go to your sub tab then you might miss content from channels you're subscribed to.
no
2veritasium I think it only shows you every upload, if you're subbed to a little bit of people. I'm not 100℅ sure though
My bookmark is set to the subscription tab and I've never had issues. Who uses "recommended" anyway... plebs
My subscription tab doesn't even show all of my subscription's videos. Especially the creators with videos that only pop up once every few months.
I definitely feel the videos promoted to me are much more interesting and relevant than a couple of months ago. I never used to click the recommended videos and now I do all the time (this video was a recommendation for example, not subbed).
sparkss4 all I get in suggested videos is crap I've already watched.
yeah I watch 80%+ from the recommended box now
Great video Derek. I've come to very similar findings.
I'm still confused. Are people not seeing all their subs in the subscription section? I don't seem to have this issue and I'm subbed to about 200 channels.
certain videos will be missed, but obviously you wont know if you dont know about the video
daniel117100 When I say "Don't seem" above I do not mean I haven't noticed. I mean I've specifically gone and looked at channels I sub to to see what videos I am missing and don't see any.
William Brall most people arent affected but there are thousands of complaints of this happening. Just cause it doesnt happen to you, it doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. cheers
Jeff Bronson You seem to be under the impression that I believe it isn't happening. I'm asking what is happening and under what conditions.
+William Brall Could always go straight to exporting your subscriptions and setting up a RSS feed.
Randomly walking in a graveyard in Sweden and meeting Veritasium
sure thats in sweden=?
192mait yeah, that's Sweden, he went past Adolf Fredriks Church in Stockholm.
Yes. Sweden. And then finishing with a lectute at Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan (KTH) in Stockholm 😁
It's nice to hear a sound theory and possible explanation for this. Thank you.
I think it's interesting that youtube would not favor creator's videos anymore and instead, choose to promote what's trending. It may get youtube more views, short term, but at what cost?
Typically, I would want to promote the people that make me money. I don't give a dedicated employee who I pay $20 dollars an hour a lesser wage eventually. They will quit. Even though that lesser wage puts more money in my pocket, temporarily, it will, ultimately, generate me less revenue. Cutting open the duck that lays golden eggs.
I know I may be responding to a completely false reason for youtube doing this, but it feels worth saying.
Have you seen MatPat's video on the same topic? He did some research and numbers on what's actually going on, and it seems to agree in part with what you said.
not really, according to matpat the new system benefits channels that can spam out lots of long content, like watch mojo and buzzfeed
That's why I said “in part”. That part being, that what matters now are “watch minutes” and that CZcams wants people to stay longer on their platform.
Arturo Torres Sánchez hhhhhhhhhyhhhyhhyyyyhhhyuhhhhhhhhhggggggggggghhhhhhggvgghgg)hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhghghhghhjjjhhhhhhhhhhjhhhjjhhhhhhjhu:komunikuje:jjjjjhhhhjhhjjhhhhhhhjjjjjjjjjjjjjjkjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj:jjjjujjjjjjjjjjhhhhhhhjhjjjjjjjnhvgnb:kjjjjjkjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjkkkjjjjjj
tv jjnjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjhhhhhhhjjjjjjjjjjhnnnjjj
I'm watching a CZcams video about watching CZcams videos now.. am I in some kind of feedback loop?
This is the singularity.
😂😂😂
so explain why my last upload only got 4 views
You have 6 subscribers so that 2 thirds of your subs watching lol
Ive been hit hard too. Used to get 20 views, now get about 4.
Haha
Same here, I get roughly 60 views a video and I feel 95% of the views are from Facebook!
Cause your name is "Phlegm"?
Another element I didn't hear you mention is when one clicks on a recommended video an ad plays (or is prompted to play). Ads generally don't play when one is just randomly selecting videos, or randomly viewing a channel.
Thanks mate, a very interesting cover of the behavior of modern communication and sharing and informing and, well, you get it. It's always fascinating to hear of a behavior change or adaptation from a knowledgeable source.
Btw, where were you walking during that blog? It was a fascinating backdrop to your speech. I kept being distracted by some beautiful imagery and buildings and grave sites (?)
I used to think that the system was designed to make the bigger even bigger and make it even harder for the smaller to get bigger. But now it seems like its giving everyone a fair chance, which is good. Kind of feels like its trying to go against the pareto principle though.
Shutter Authority indeed
I would say they are moving more towards a state like Pareto principle as in the previous model the split was closer to 99-1 than 80-20
Actually, the entire uproar was because the changes are destroying many smaller channels and supporting clickbait. Pewdiepie and Jacksepticeye aren't talking about themselves, they've both been in talks with youtube mostly on behalf of the smaller channels to whom those losses of subscribers can really put a dent in.
Shutter Authority I just saw your check mark, clicked your channel, and you have insane view counts. Subscribed instantly.
tbh ive seen this hit some small channels (particularly animation) pretty hard, and yet i see buzzfeed and jimmy kimmel, aka corporately-backed channels, all over the trending page
I think this is a TV-like problem
Years ago, people were relatively new to the platform, they were looking for content, when there was a lot less of it.
People's feeds would be noticeably changed when a new video came.
Currently, im guessing some people didnt manage their youtube subscriptions properly so they have lots and lots of subs, churning out videos to their feed all the time, so the novelty of one particular channel gets lost with the noise, noise that they probably dont watch either.
I regularly see myself deleting silly subscriptions that drop too many videos and clutter my feed, or those who simply i dont really watch, or their content has become recurrent or flat out boring. So I avoid having cable tv on my youtube. You know, lots of channels i dont really watch, that take away the joy of having the highly enjoyable content you love. I think poor managing turns into lots of irrelevant stuff in your information flow, and overload makes for boring.
EDIT: just for curiosity, how many people do you subscribe to? post in the comments :)
i have around 20-30 channels, and i watch probably about 3/4 videos in my Subscriptions feed
Wow...I'm subbed to 120 channels. (note: they're not daily vloggers, they're people like vsauce & vlog brothers, game grumps, etc)
Nacho Chips Same here. Slightly more than 100, many channels haven't uploaded in a while/ are second or third (or sixth for Brady) channels from the same creator
Sev'rance Tann Zero. I've been watching CZcams for almost a decade now and I still don't like subbing because I don't want constant notifications, especially since some of the first channels I watched were channels that would post 2-5 videos a day or at least daily. I also like the idea of just finding some new channels through recommendations all the time. I remember most of the channels I use to frequent so if I fall off, it's kind of nice because that means I get to binge watch videos and if I forget it's only takes a few choice searches to find them again. It also helps that I'm the type who shares video a lot so, even if I do fall out, when I come back I don't mind trying to help support the channel. I just really like sharing and finding new content.
31 subs here, If I skip 3 videos in a row from one channel I usually unsubscribe until maybe an interesting video of theirs gets recommended
~110 subs here. In the past day, 29 videos total were uploaded from them, averaging somewhere around the 15-20 minutes range. If you take away the channels that upload less often than once a day, I'd imagine my subscription feed would be at or less than half of what it is now. I probably watch around 3/4, give or take 1/4, of the videos in my feed on a normal day. As for managing my feed, I do have a "purge" every half year or so where I go through my subscriptions and clear out any I don't watch anymore, which does help manage the amount of videos I have on the subs feed.
Would love to have access to a detailed,ongoing breakdown.
Things like how much revenue comes from the few big vs. the many small.
Love the diverse (and yes,want to support)
So was that lecture at the end held at KTH Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan in Stockholm? I just noticed your t-shirt
KeKKi yes, I recognise the aula and some of the people attending.
I didn't know he was there. I mean, I probably wouldn't have wanted attend but I'm still surprised he came to my uni and I didn't even hear about it
obviously.
I like old subscription system better - I want to watch videos from my subscriptiins, not from my recommendations.
there is a subscriptions tab for a reason
sewagii
There is already section where they are sorted by date. I want it to be exactly like new default page, but without recommendations. Old style CZcams.
This recommendations are again influenced by CZcams, just like search results are influenced by Google. Everyone knows what happened with Google censorship of latest US elections. This is the reason why I don't want any kind of "recommendations" from Google here.
It's already there. There should be _no_ recommendations, only a grid of videos from all subscribed channels, sorted chronologically. Forget "new default page" (Home). Pretend it doesn't exist. Click Subscriptions. The URL will be czcams.com/users/feedsubscriptions
I find the recommendations shown during video playback quite good overall. They are largely from related channels I am subscribed to. Most recommendations are at least related to the topic of the video currently playing. There's usually a recommendation or two on another unrelated topic of interest to me, and a couple that seem to be random from large channels I don't care for.
I absolutely never touch any "trending" type of rubbish. The idea of watching things only because they are deemed popular makes my skin crawl.
they just need to sort it out. But for them there's no short-term advantage to sorting out reccomendations. No capital of people watching actual videos that hold their interest, instead of flicking through tons in a time-wasting manner. TV did this for 60 years. People to zone out in some vaccuus state is no secret or conspiracy, it gets more viewtime. Reccomendations is turning into 'trending plus shit you've already watched and probably disliked' though, i think if they push too far there are long term consequences. I use vimeo now for videos of any content, i'm very much on here to procrastinate. I can't find them on youtube. e.g. veritasium is ok, but its not like some full documentary, its a digestable chunk of info.
jorgepeterbarton
I completely agree when it comes to TV.
Hell, even if my fav show is on, I'll gladly wait an hour for it to record on the DVR, so I can play it back and skip through the ads and such. ;)
Ads, for me, are very much a deterrent. That's why I have ad-blocker. Any websites that tell me to block the blocker are simply blocked from my interest. XD
why are you in stockholm?
I was there for a conference.
I am actually glad they are moving away from the sub model. Over the years I have subbed to numerous channels and don't really get around to removing those I have lost interest in. (There is no quick way to just clean up sub list). To top it off the sub list has become unwieldy and a pain to scour.
This was becoming a problem and pushed me away from CZcams for entertainment, as had my entire front page filled with channels I lost interest in or were not what I thought they would be and too lazy to go back and fix it.
Luckily your videos along with Mental Floss, Vsauce, do show up regularly in my feeds.
Keep up the good work and bringing hours of something me and my family enjoy and share among our circles.
Profit destroys everything.
All advertising is evil.
Advertising is not necessarily evil. The alternative is forcing you to use products, via company "enforcers" or government mandates, rather than attempting to entice you to purchase of your own free will. Ads CAN be evil or used to harm people, but so can water.
Targeted ads are evil. There is a lot of money to be made in data mining to find out what sorts of things you want to buy/click on.
I'll agree that they are often nefarious, and less effective than believed.
Dwight House Maybe it would in a sense be better to have an enforcer that forced you to consume (although I really can't see that as the alternative to advertising). You could at least recognise that tyranny instead of becoming a mindless, domesticated consumer. I just read an interesting novel by Aldous Huxley, Brave New World. That's a perfect example of a tyrannical society that without any kind of physical violence completely controls it's docile people with the philosophy that you should not only get whatever you want, but also want whatever is provided.
"You could at least recognise that tyranny instead of becoming a mindless, domesticated consumer." Speak for yourself. I block ads, but I also understand the benefits of capitalism. I much prefer the choice of enticement over direct control.
The truth about recent change on YT is even darker than you can imagine.
Stop watching Alex Jones.
You are right. And, now... I am suddenly subscribed to many other channels that I don't know existed at all. People check it! Agorithm (lets call it Matrix) subscribing you to other channels without your knowledge.
Is it forcing your eyeballs to stare at those videos?
WildMania Yo
The source from which people get their information is steadily moving to alternative sources like the internet, especially youtube.
If you think about the process of getting something on TV (has to run through special interests before being aired) vs the process of posting something on youtube (virtually no ideologically restrictions), the difference becomes obvious.
Free exchange of ideas is a huge problem for the big boys up top. It's only a matter of time before CZcams gets raped out of existence. (just look at the new notification system as an example)
What are you doing in sweden?
he freelances as an international assassin to fund his youtube content
Ofc, I knew there was something fishy with him being in sweden! XD
Maybe not the complete reason but he was on Swedish Telvevision for Nobel week, see www.svtplay.se/video/11483386/nobelstudion/nobelstudion-9-dec-20-00-textat and scroll to 55 minutes approx (just a couple of minutes).
That was his alibi I recon! XD
He had a talk at my school :-) Probably not his primary reason though haha
What CZcams offers me tends to reflect what I've been watching the past days or even hours. It can be a little annoying. Just because you just ate dessert doesn't mean you want to be offered a lot more dessert options.
This actually makes a lot of sense. As a small CZcamsr who has just found an avenue of videos that people watch I've seen my channel expand almost exponentially recently. It's helped me out a lot and makes me want to make more content. It seems to recommend videos based on what you watch and similar videos.
For me, subscriptions have become a list of channels and creators I like to keep track of. It could be companies I really like or people I find really funny. I don't think I watch every video of any creator unless maybe they're a friend of mine.
Where you in Sweden? I see multiple signs in Swedish.
Yes, he was at KTH and had a meetup yesterday.
SimmeTheMovie Why? The Nobel price dinner?
SimmeTheMovie How does one find out about these meetups?
59.3372N 18.0598E
iviewthetube Yes it is next to that church.
All the commercials, getting worse than TV.
What are you having a lecture about at KTH? I'm curious because I've been there several times at weekend classes in chemistry and physics.
I suspect the declining numbers is easy to explain:
1) Increasing competition,
2) Decreasing interest in CZcams in general.... CZcams isn't a fad anymore.
What you say would be fine if it actually worked. I get suggested the same stuff all the time, including the same channels that I have never watched. I actually find it really hard to find new videos and channels that I like because all I ever see is the existing channels that I'm subscribed to and a bunch of other stuff that stays more or less the same that I never watch.
chris4072511 Given a lot of people get most of their views from the recommended sections, and I find it incredibly useful, I disagree.
Jeroen Bollen It can be okay but mine is pretty much full of stuff from channels I already watch or stuff I've already decided I don't want to watch. I suppose I could go through it all and click "not interested"
Yeah, if you plan to make use of the suggestions, its a good idea to go through it and tell it what you dont want to see every once in a while.
Yeah, not only is the suggested stuff crap, but the searches are crap as well. It's like comparing the Google search engine to Yahoo search engine. X'D
Its always some weird correlation too. Look up "Gucci Mane - My Kitchen" and then youtube suggests me gordon ramsay videos. XD
I'm pretty sure I see all my subscribers videos in my subs feed.
me too.
are you usually watching all the vieos in your sub-feed?
Most of them.
You do. But if you watch Pewdiepies videos on the subject he does a breakdown of the stats of his videos. Most people will not use the subscription feed to watch the videos.
Yeah that is what I thought.
but I saw multiple videos, where people were complaining about videos not showing up. (creators as well) that´s why they tell you, that you should enable notifications.
I usually watch all videos in my sub-box, so that might be why, I didn't notice videos missing.
+Tomisoka CZ That's BS. If you're subscribed then it will show on your subs page. If videos from a channel you're subscribed to aren't showing on the subscriptions page (not front page) then you should report the
_bug_ in the stickied thread in the CZcams Help Forum.
YT doesn't care if a video topic is controversial if it's coming from your subscriptions, they're only going to filter like that for channels you're not subbed to.
I watched your video because I have watched my view count decline from 1 50K average down to a 15K average. It has made me feel like crap about myself and my channel.
My question is HOW DO I FIX IT? I post this comment in sheer desperation.
Make better production quality and cleaner editing, try new things and don't follow the same old formula. Try out different hosts.
I hear CZcams will make an extra feature for the bell, so that you can get quicker updates if you tick the bell of the bell. Next time, when you tick the bell of the bell of the bell people might see the videos of those they have subscribed to.
+Eric Hamm The issue isn't content, it's that CZcams is broken.
+Tech of Tomorrow Make it explicit to your subscribers that they should click the bell to not miss a video of yours. Over time, the views will hopefully increase.
Chak Z Or it was broken before and people got used to it and are bitching now. This is entrainment business, keep up or lose out.
It seems like two of the most important factors in the algorithm should be watch time and the ratio of non-subscribers who subscribe to a channel based on watching a video. If people are watching a ways into the video then they're interested, and if a lot of people subscribe to a channel based on watching a particular video then it must be a pretty darned good video. And then after that should be the click through rate and engagement such as comments, thumbs up, shares, etc.
youtube needs competition myspace had facebook
noooo.
myspace was long dead when facebook came
Not really. In Canada MySpace never really died, it kinda just faded out of style. When all the younger people were migrating to Facebook, I still knew plenty of people who had never used social media and all of my American friends were still on MySpace and that was around 2010. I think it was 2012 when Facebook really blew up (from my perspective) which is also the year they went public.
Lolwut? Myspace pretty much started declining as facebook became the new social media platform of choice.
basketofpuppys they do right now already people are mirroring over on vid.me right now.
+Shabba Shabba Bing to the rescue?
Veritasium - yet again not afraid to tell it like it is, with just an element of truth.
This channel is a credit to CZcams!
I appreciate that despite being a selfie video, you avoided going vertical :)
excellent video, couldn't have explained it any better; I think youtube in the end is changing for the better. Maybe the issue could be that single person channels are now put under such intense pressure to put out videos all the time which in the end could lower the quality of their videos. But in the long run, the overall system (like you said) would promote young "entrepreneurs" into the youtube battle arena.
Are you having a talk tour in Scandinavia at the moment or something? :)
GroovingPict yeah in Stockholm
Where? I didn't know, I wanna be there!
No, he was at a conference about science video in stockholm for a day, and had a fan meet-up.
Where was this announced? I missed it :((( He was at my school...
Wiberg Entertainment same :( He was right where I was defending this week and I missed him..
Recently i am recommended videos that i have no interest in, most of them seem to be clickbait and low quality(and plastered with ads). not happy with the changes overall. also alot of the channels i watch on a regular basis fail to even show up in my subscription feed. However i do see where you are coming from to some degree.
I hear you and Pewdiepie on the clickbait issue. The system CZcams has setup now is more susceptible to clickbait and I'm sure they will be tweaking the algorithm to try to reduce that. But when subs mean less, other factors count for more. The big winners I notice in the new system are late night shows, carpool karaoke etc.
Focusing on maximizing profit means targeting the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately most of the general public don't seem to be very intelligent.
One thing that is bizarre to me is videos not showing up inte the subscription feed.
To my experience it has never happened. Sometimes its delayed and it takes an extra hour or two until it pops up but it always shows up.
Could someone clarify something for me? Can I still trust the "subscription feed" page to show me every new video from my subscriptions? Or should I use the little bell systematically for each channel that I watch? I've heard that for some people new videos didn't always came up in the feed, but I don't have the feeling that it's the case for me.
To understand a point, for example, transistor, I try to watch several creators and usually encounter 3 or 4 perspectives on the subject that brings the understanding of the point to me. I think it's the 'track' that should be shared. Each 'track' leads each person with different levels of knowledge to a higher level of understanding about the subject! So, I agree with you about the plurality of creators. Thanks 2veritasium!
I used to watch every Veritasium video but now only watch around half. This pretty much happens with every one of my subscriptions... very interested at the start and then interest wanes over time or I find other things I want to watch.
David Diez Yeah nowadays I mostly look at "recommended"
A few months before this video, I found that I was missing Veritasium videos in my feed so I went through and clicked the alarm bell of my favourite 5-10 channel subscriptions. It seems counter intuitive to have to do that as well as subscribing, but I suppose the system is better now. I'm guessing that the majority of youtube users don't realize that the alarm bell feature exists, or why that need to use it yet.
yeah I noticed some of my subscriptions weren't showing up on my feed anymore. I had to do just like you said to get them back in my feed.
Not related to this video, but i was surprised to see you being in my hometown- (I even saw some of my friends in the video from KTH). Hope you enjoyed Stockholm!
Also want to thank you for highlighting the importance of fake news in social media, very interesting to hear
I agree with you. That's why starting from some time ago, when I wanted to search about some information but don't want to get recommended by that kind of information in the future, I open it in incognito mode.
Put them on trending or home. Leave subscription as it was.
Hey! That's Sweden! :D
What are you doing in Sweden?
I saw the "avgift" sign and had the same reaction as you :D
Pontus Welin my mind short-circuited when I read "Reserverade platser"
*****
Oh! Cool! What is it about Sweden that makes you want to move here?
Was this recorded on a GoPro? The audio isn't very high quality. Just curious.
Feel that pinch bro, The sub base is no help now!
Hey, did gametheory and veritasium to talk together about this?
Oh. So this algorithm change is actually good for me as a very small channel. That's good news!
MARM good for all channels that don't have tens of millions of subscribers*
It is only good if your users watch your video from start to finish. Liking a video does practically nothing so don't fall into that trap. Also, current algo focuses on age, so new stuff and low view counts is what matters. Furthermore, if people ignore your video from recommended list then your videos will slowly fade away and you will disappear from their view.
News stuff and low view count? Really? 'cause I feel like I have seen the opposite. Most of what shows up in the recommended section at the right are old videos with a lot of views. Same with the home page.
SilverEye Yes that is the idea behind latest algorithm. Age plays a massive role. It focuses on you and your preferences. Goes into your history and pulls the best "co-watch" videos into your recommended feed. It doesn't actually show you the newest and latest in youtube in general.
It shows you videos that you have watched before and tries to make a new link to those (basically videos that other people have watched after this and so on). That is where the recommended feed really comes from. If you don't have sufficient amount of history then it follows other default parameters like your location, gender and other shit new users have to deal with.
It all basically starts from your watch list and your search list history. That is where it gets the initial candidates, which it finally ranks. Also, current algorithm is built to accept videos from other sources too - from anything they setup: so this can be anything in their configuration - to some biggest earners in youtube to plain out paid partners & advertisers etc...
In general, it is nothing new. It is like netflix, it follows you around and doesn't care much about ratings but focuses on what you actually watch (focuses on start to finish videos). Like and other explicit factors like that should be very low priority in the parameters chain, just FYI.
CapMurd That is how I figured it worked but thanks for the detailed breakdown.
But I think that is a bit of a problem because I practically never see anyone new so I don't know how this would help smaller channels. Or new videos from people I follow for that matter. It doesn't matter to me because I watch the subscription feed more than anything. But clearly this isn't what everyone will do. And Pewdiepies breakdown clearly showed this where he dropped from 30% to just a few percent from recommended on new videos.
My thoughts for what they are worth... So first off I am a subscriber and have enjoyed all or most of your videos. I just find that the number of people I subscribe too continues to grow. If I compare you tube to TV...there is only so much much you can watch in a week. I would say a majority of the videos I watch are movie, hiking/camping, cycling ones. I definitely continue to get alerts from my favorite you tubers...and i may pick and choose depending on the topic whether I watch it. Who knows maybe You Tube channels are like TV shows...even mega popular shows like CSI eventually lose their audience, as people grow or their interests shift to other things. On a seperate note...love your channel, always great to learn new things.
I notice that my views of some of the channels I subscribe to lessens over time. For instance, if it's a channel about tasting food... over time the topic becomes redundant (similar food, similar surroundings, etc). I'll still click on the older channels I subscribe to when I see a topic that seems to be a fresh perspective.
Also, some of the channels have become annoying over time. Perhaps they are running out of topics, or they are just getting more and more silly, or venting so much they never get to the point. Is that because they become bored with their own format? I think so.
Over all, I'd say that my viewing habits on CZcams hasn't lessened, because as I become used to the old subscriptions, I'm just adding more.
Great video! CZcams is more content quality driven now and my channel is one of the ones that have benefitted from the new algorithm. Hope to collab with you soon, Derek! Cheers!
AntsCanada Hi AntsCanada! :D
I love your videos. Glad to hear the changes work out in your favor :)
I enjoy your videos. #Firenation
Id rather discuss about overall content quality being worse and worse as a whole in youtube as evident by the extremely bad rewind video this year. click bait, pranks, fake news, fake pranks, (by fake i mean depicted as real), etc etc...
Hello Sir, what should i do when somebady reports me on facebook and after that facebook is not allowing me to share my blog articles on face it shows a pop up that you can't post this article because this article was reported by someone Sir please help me out to fix it up
i really enjoyed you talking about a topic while interacting with your surrounding. Never realized you are actually a professor teacher what ever but that classroom shot was awesome!
There is so much to watch, i dont watch every video on the channels im subbed to. So not all subscribers generate views.
Notification squad for both of Ve channels 🙋🏻♂️
plz...stap
This is nothing but a "first" comment in disguise.
fuck off kid
This doesn't address view counts reduced on old videos each time the channel posts a new one --- penalizing HARD frequent posters on their GENUINELY SUCCESSFUL videos.
youtube funnels major views to some people , now its time for youtube to level the playing field, and change the algorithm so it shares more views with smaller channels.
This video came up for me as "recommended" on the youtube home page...
Seems like the new way of doing things is going to favor creators who can pump out content every single day, instead of the small team making well thought out content once a week or less.
But that content also has to be in long-form, and people would have to watch it to the end.
indeed, channels like buzzfeed's are gonna have a field day.
The suggested videos these days also often suddenly get videos of people that have little to no subscribers or views, and that for weeks or months on a video, and suddenly their views spike enormously. I have seen lots of creators even asking in the comments about that, and hundreds of people say it was just in the recommended. It seems the algorithm tries to find new things that people might like too.
Additionally I think the way it currently works with finding things you like is shite. It does take into account mostly only the stuff you last clicked on and then thinks you want all your feed to be of that. I showed my daughter some cartoon while we were waiting one day, and for several days half of my suggested feed was full of these cartoons, and right after we watched that video, it was like 10 from exactly the same channel
PewDiePie doesn't seem to understand a few things:
1) He's PewDiePie. The vast majority of his subs are people who sub to him just because he's PewDiePie. They just want to see that sub counter increase and probably don't care much for his content.
2) That his content and gimmick has an expiration date.
3) That subs don't matter. A huge sub count doesn't automatically mean huge view counts. If a CZcamsr can get 10% of the sub count as views it's considered good. Again, the reason why he doesn't get that sub to view ratio is because of what I wrote above.
2 years later and pewdiepie is still relevant and coming up with new 100% original content and not stealing from jacksfilms whatsoever.
doesnt explain broken subbox znd unsub glitch
The architecture in the background is beautiful
Yeah I believe it's Sweden
Thanks
Yes, it's central Stockholm. :)
That's the kind of city that could kidnap me and I'd end up getting along with it.
I LOLed.
It seems like every youtuber started making lower quality content to publish daily vlogs so they grow their channels but the quality of the videos declined a lot. I hope like you said, that this will help us small youtubers to get more noticed and promote videos with better content and not just video diaries everywhere... then maybe big youtubers will start to make better content again :)
A not related question: How did you recorded this video? (cámera, mic, handheld device?)
Well said. thanks for putting this up. I have seen the inverse where my videos have been exploding. it is making it easier for the smaller channels.
at 2:29 people are walking perfectly backwards. must be some sort of local time fluctuation
+2veritasium Does this relate to issues with the new "progress bar" indicator (the red line below each "watched" vid, supposedly showing how much of that vid you actually watched)? Since it was released a few weeks ago, I no longer see my viewed thumbnails consistently marked as "watched", despite having watched the ENTIRE video. I like to know which vids I've already watched, and it bugs me to see better than 75% of watched vids only counting as partial views. Most often, the progress bar shows around 80% complete, despite my having watched every frame of that video, nor does it show the "watched" banner either. If it isn't showing as watched for me, maybe it isn't showing as watched for the channel owner either? That would readily explain a sudden plummet in "counted" views.
I just wanna say that I'm happy about the change in the algorithm because without it I would have never found this channel and so far I think it's great!
The issue is ad blocker and revenue.
audio weird?
I think the gopro did that because there was some wind. I agree this is a little weird but at least it's better than wind noise.
Does any of this effect /feed/subscriptions ?
I've had no issues watching all the content the people I follow put out I just click on the subscriptions tab and their all there in chronological order.
Is their revenue metric video views or number of minutes spent watching/on site? Each view represents a reloading of the advertisement (and another chance for user click through to the advertisers website). Antonio Garcia Martinez wrote an interesting book tangentially related to that.
The ironic part is that this video is popular and trending
a pro youtube video and magically in the trending at #39...hmm are they just adding to this conspiracy or what?
The big thing that PewDiePie and others complain about is something I have noticed. I peruse my video feed very casually, and watch what piques my interest. I recently noticed that I was no longer subscribed to channels like Veritasium, Vsauce, and some others. It also made me realize that I hadn't seen them in my feed for a while. Why is CZcams suddenly telling people what to like? I mean, they didn't remove my subs to AvE, BigClive, and other lower-production channels. As a viewer, I feel a little violated that "the system" is deciding who I should and shouldn't like.
It is not that you decide on your own what you like. There are loads of factors involved.
I think there's also something to be said for there are just being more and more videos. Additionally, does this trend correspond to the recent American election? I would assume that with more people focussed on other news, there may be a diffusing of what people usually watch. Just a thought.