Why YouTube Used to Prefer Quality
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2017
- Almost four years ago I made a video about quality vs quantity on CZcams. Reflecting on how the platform is working in 2017 I find that quantity (frequency) has become significantly more important and quality less so.
I'm not saying this is my recommendation for how people should make channels, just that this is what seems to be an effective strategy nowadays.
This video involves two distinct sections: on the streets of London and in "studio". The London stuff was filmed to correct mistakes in the earlier studio shoot.
The studio shoot was filmed by Raquel Nuno. London street stuff was shot by me on a Zhiyun Crane with GH5.
We definitely noticed the emphasis on the upload day and how views crash after that. For us there is not really a solution in sight. As the years go by on the platform you tend to want to do longer and better videos, rather than shorter and more frequent ones. We are currently streamlining our process and if we get really good at it we might be able to do two videos-ish a month. But more is not possible on a level we are comfortable with. Not sure how to react to all of that in the long run. Guess we have to look for different ways to stay alive besides CZcams.
Your channel was exactly what I was thinking about here.
Is it weird that I read this in the voice of the Kurzgesagt's Narrator. Anyways, I felt a bit off too when your I saw all the changes in youtube & all the facebook piracy stuff affecting your channel but its good now that you guys have reached your Patreon goal atleast, the true fans will always be there to help :]
2veritasium i dont know your full name, but i am very eager to watch your videos. keep it up
Patreon is one, and another would be to use other videosharing platforms as well.
Are you sure that this upload day phenomenon is caused by the algorithm and not by subscription notifications?
I hate this trend.
You can no longer go on CZcams and find simple concise and to the point guides. Every guide you find now has 10 minutes of rambling and 30 seconds of actual content.
CZcams is transitioning into a video platform where people go to relax (similar to watching TV) with no clear goal of what to watch in mind, and quality content (like your videos) are becoming phased out through CZcams's promotion algorithm.
Happy
People getting dumber everyday. CZcams is doing things that benifit the government - making people dumber.
Basically just go to work, pay your taxes and watch some nonsense youtube.
Or maybe government has nothing to do with it - CZcams simply has more ad revenue this way.
I find unsettling the way I use more and more the x2 speed in some videos because otherwise I get bored. Good quality short videos are definitely a rare thing on YT lately
"We are getting smarter" please dont put "WE" some people believe there's slave on mars or earth is flat, I really doubt that WE are getting smarter only couple of people getting smarter some are stuck at stone age.
You forget 4.5m people listening to that stupid conspiracy and it is not even the 1st one stupid conspiracy they publish, and yes most people are stupid, they even vote for stupid president. Also I dont think everyone is stupid I say "SOME" stop twisting my word it just make you stupid.
this just got recommended to me .. over a year after its uploaded so maybe youtube is changing once again
Doubt it. The algorithm always bets on who will watch a certain content and one of the factors can be if you watched something similar recently. And if some random guy did and it saw that the guy watched through it, its gonna show it to some people with similar interests as you. If they watch the same content as you. And if those people watch it as well, they are gonna recommend it to even more people who have similar interest. This goes on for technically forever so its always gonna be that your video is in someone's recommended. The video's stats are publicly available, if you are on the website of youtube you can click "more" under the video and select "statistics" that's gonna bring up the views over time how they flew in and I think how many people subscribed because of that video. I don't know because I tried to click on it now and it doesn't come up and I think that is because of Google+ being removed from youtube. I don't know if you watched it or not, but Markiplier made an amazing video talking about it about a week ago and basically, youtube is breaking. So don't be hopeful. CZcams is never gonna be the same because all they care about is money. Google is a huge corporation and one of the reasons why youtube actually is breaking today is because they wanted to make more money.
the algorithm has become self aware lately
google has implanted their "secret" (not really secret tho) AI project in youtube
youtube kids was just a prototype but it failed (miserably)
and so AI 2.0 went into algorithm
and no this isn't conspiracy stuff, google has always intended to do this for a "better" (debatable) algorithm
I watched it few days after putting on youtube, and today it once again got recommended to me
fake harkaj
I also just got recomended this video too but I don't think it was because I was watching videos about ants and cats. That seems like a pretty big jump. (Though I am subscribed to his main channel) (Maybe it could be also something about the nature of the video)
It's likely being recommended to more people because Veritasium has started uploading more often, and therefore more people have been watching his videos.
Most scientific Jake Paul diss ever.
A bit over a year ago I switched from weekly videos to spending weeks on a single upload. The comments on these longer videos have been the most profound, touching and meaningful I've received in ten years on the platform (seven with Vsauce). Conversely, the way my videos have been treated by the CZcams algorithm has not been as kind. Your analysis certainly resonates with my experience. That said, I love the content I'm working on today and will continue to make videos on topics I find personally meaningful.
it strikes me that, perhaps, CZcams aught to have two algoritms, one for the general videos, and one (probably on a seperate list on the home page) that favors longer videos posted less frequently.
As it is. I do like to see the regularly posted stuff and lets plays. But I also like watching the Vsauce channels and Veritassium. I have to actively remember, on my own, to go through and check all four of the channels to see if new stuff was on, because I can't really count on CZcams to be useful there.
Hey Kevin, Vsauce here.
Thank you Kevin. I was thinking that reduced quality will lose the core audience after a while. Then, what is the point? Just money? If money is one of the main goals, then I don't see the point to be a viewer. PewDiePie excites me more, then.
Vsauce2 Please never stop making videos, you're channel is one of the golden channels. Just wanna say thank you for all your hard work and incredible content.
I just suggested something to Kurzgesagt that you might also find useful. In short: Keep doing your quality videos, but in between them maybe do videos briefly presenting a number of potential topics and asking people which ones they're more interested in?
Love your work, by the way - definitely keen for you to keep putting that time and effort into individual videos.
Hey, the algorithm sent me this video today. A year late but it sent it to me. I think it helps us new youtubers.
king of random has adopted this change
algorithm is broken af
Just noticed it was a year later... btw, go Peter Paul Chato!
I was just about to comment this
sent me here today...
This video was just "recommended" for me.... and it's exactly what I've experienced. I was booming for years, and then I've been on decline since around 2016. I can only upload so fast (since I do stop motion), and I've had to abandon large scale projects, since the extremely short video life cycle doesn't reward it. I'm also shocked how despite me having 1.3 million subscribers, only about 25,000 of them ever see my new content. CZcams is a mess, and I see it more as doing "damage control" and minimizing losses, than experiencing growth at this point. As a viewer, I'm also annoyed because CZcams tries to completely control what content is shown to me. I appreciate suggestions, but they're making too many decisions for my tastes...
MICHAELHICKOXFilms As a viewer only I subscribe to a number of content producers but I only remain ‘loyal’ if they continue to produce content that keeps my interest. However I have never ‘Unsubscribed’ - so it is perfectly possible for a longstanding content producer to receive drastically fewer views than they have subscribers.
I am finding the range of recommended content limiting and frustrating now. It is becoming harder to break out of the CZcams induced silo of recommended content.
I agree 100%. Algorithm needs to take into consideration that stop motion takes time but they want you to pump out 1-2 vid a week.
Man your videos are still cool nevertheless
Yeah. I will try to “purge” my recommended page by clicking not interested around 50 to 100 times to fix this.
This gave me great comfort in knowing I'm not crazy. Certainly saw these differences occur in my videos views and how older videos don't get watched as often. It's poopy. I've always wanted to be a CZcams creator and as I'm trying to overcome the 100k hump it's getting harder and harder.
Congratulations now you have crossed 400k
It's scary how much CZcams is changing.
And how it changes our lives.
I feel it seems to prefer vlogs,collaborations and such more than quality videos. Look at Grant Thompson - he can no longer sustain on his original style, he needs to upload more videos. What a shame...
Especially looking at the who's famous.. Like Logan Paul for instance.
Maddie J, everything is changing, thats nothing that one should be scared from... if things dont change then its scary actually...
Yeah I think Grant Thompson is a great example. Used to upload less often and the content was great, these days I rarely watch any of his content. It's gotten kinda crappy. He (and a lot of CZcamsrs) have also started doing give aways with every video to get more people too like and subscribe, increasing their audience interaction according to CZcamss algorithm. Kind of a shame :-(
CZcams sucks for finding new content. i only watch who i already sub to or find from external recommendations such as reddit
i hate all the stupid click bait crap
Anus McBain my recommended feed does show me new videos on similar subjects as I've been watching occasionally. but yeah generally nothing entirely mew
Yeah I always avoid the trending section. I get really tired of the repetition in the recommended section though. sometimes I have to refresh forever to find something new and interesting. it'll show me the same videos for days!
I find it does the same thing to me...
Agreed!! I hate it :( As a creator it sucks even more.
Veritasium Just know that I will always watch your videos. Boo boo
Been subscribed to both of your channels for years and I just saw this video!
About a year late, but now it is being suggested again ;)
same! Very strange
I had already seen and liked this video in the past. I got it suggested for me today.
Same for the 2nd time, and I ignored it a few days ago.
Same, I only got this video today
It has been suggested to me today, so he was spot on it seems.
I feel uncomfortably awkward for derek the whole video because of the people around....
got to get past what others may think. or u end up following the crow to a fema camp and take the mark of the beast. the great sign in heaven happened on 9/23/17 revelation 12......what do u think that means?
@@relevant.c5411 The rapture ain't happening, girl. Get over it.
@@relevant.c5411 Are you lost?
@@relevant.c5411 wow, im14andthisisdeep very much? I'd probably too feel uncomfortable if some dude was yelling at a camera while strolling down the street
@@user-bd4oc9jt9e If some dude yelling into a camera on the street was weird for you in 2018, you have been living under a rock.
Now with CZcamsrs and streamers getting paid millions, everybody is aiming for a slice of that pie.
I watch thousands of funny, artistic videos a month, yet I'm only ever recommended for challenge videos and fidget spinner videos. It's ridiculous. I don't see how the algorithm could be more wrong.
+KnockbackZero so you're saying the algorithm is not the audience
Certainly as it is right now, no. Maybe it's working its way up to be the audience, but as of right now it's failing miserably.
Thank you for this video and your insight.
KnockbackZero wat you said pretty much line for line i feel. thanx dude ( edited line for line up to the fidget spinners )
The algorithm is not wrong.
It recommends videos which are highly relevant to your look a like audience.
Basically youtube knows what you´ll be watching soon.
Even when the algorithm is wrong they´ll be showing so much fidget spinner and challenge videos till you watch it :-)
What CZcams really needs is competition. I can imagine a solution being that some of the best and biggest creators on the platform join forces to create a separate video hosting social platform and move towards there. Being the only player in the game, CZcams have stopped innovating in a way that promotes quality material. That not only hurts the creators, but in the long run will hurt the society - making them dumber.
Great comment.
In _my genre_, CZcams does have a bit of competition, though (Instructables - DIY).
I post simple projects on CZcams, and post the more complicated projects on both platforms. But I don't get paid from Instructables - if I would, I probably wouldn't have started CZcams...
And Instructables sense thousands of viewers a month to my youtube channel, which I have to admit pays quite nice :)
Floatplane
ReabowRotors hah, I was just thinking floatplane too. But does Luke plan on making it accessible to other creators? It would be interesting to see lmg turn into the next old CZcams.
YT used to be for people not companies.
Yeah, CZcams use to be about 'you' from CZcams's perspective, which is us the people, and it used to promote quality over quantity. It now promotes quantity over quality and only cares about itself; a top handful of creators; and big companies like Buzz Feed, Vevo, and TV shows. It should be called UsTube now.
CZcams used to consistently lose money.
Not since Google bought youtube.
yeah the algorithm sure liked my fidget spinner videos. I kept on making them but as I started to divert back to my vlogs and regular content the algorithm just stopped recommending my new vids. I really hope as youtube changes their algorithms it will favor less news and more quality content/interesting stories.
I'm with you. Two days in and then the video dies off. I've only been at this a few years and it's a startling change.
But you (kind of we) are kind of different. We post on Instructables giving us a bit of a boost (in my case, getting 10,000 views instead of 30 on one video)
I have a very small channel, but I think if I don't embed my video in an Instructable, it'll get 25 (+/- 10) views in the first 2 days, and then it will get only a few views a day. Mostly from recommended and stuff...
I spend more time analyzing analytics than editing videos :)
This is exactly the issue I'm facing with my channel. I make educational videos about the medieval period and see how it's adopted into pop culture such movies and TV shows. They're long form with higher quality editing made to be enjoyed regardless of the time uploaded as an entertaining and educational resource, but so few people find my older videos these days when they would be just as interested in the older ones as the most recent uploads. It's such a tragedy because there's truly great videos on this site that keep their quality no matter the time watched but aren't getting seen or promoted. Instead we get useless fidget spinner videos?!?!?!?!?
As a way of working around the algorithm and realizing this would take time away from making quality content, you make short videos asking your audience to watch your older videos. Each week you release a new video promoting an older video and asking for viewers to subscribe and click on the bell.
I just briefly skimmed through your channel and uh... I never knew I was interested in swords. I'll use your videos to educate myself on them and design the ultimate sword just for me. ❤
I've been thinking lately about designing my own world with people with different ethnicities, languages, (I got inspired by people who got inspired by Tolkien) culture, folklore, mentalities, and societal structures. I'm thinking of different martial arts and weapons now, heheh.
Shadiversity I've never heard of your channel till just now, and am also interested - amazing how the volume of CZcams content drowns things. subbed. keep up the good work!
essennagerry With Shad, it's not swords, it's SWORDS!
Oh wow, had your Skingrad video up just as I saw this comment. I love your videos on the castles of the Elder Scrolls. One "castle" that I would LOVE for you to make a video for is Vivec. It's not technically a castle, but the cantons would make absolutely great defense, with their bridge entrance choke points, upper-level vantage points, and the water around them.
Honestly, youtube suggestions kind of suck.
The recency effect is really strong, if for one day I'm just looking something up, my recommended is now spammed with that type of video.
There's pros and cons to this, but it is an algorithm, ultimately it doesn't understand what I want to watch, it just guesses based on what I've already watched.
The problem with that is, you don't get recommended anything, but something that similar to what you have already seen. There is no spontaneity, in short, there is no human curator.
Experiencing just time same! Nice to see your findings and opinions about it :-)
Isn't there a flaw in CZcams's thinking? They want us to make more news type content but if we talk about more controversial topics are videos face been flagged as un Advertiser friendly. Does CZcams really want us to upload content that is on monetized? Great video Derek.
Yeah, I don't think they recognize what effect giving videos a shelf life of roughly a day does (that it promotes quicker, cheaper, newsier content) that then they have problems monetizing
Thanks for the reply.
you know... That's a REALLY good point! I didn't think about that!.
Basically kills people who do animation, whether for fun or for educational purposes. CZcams tells these people to create aggregation channels with multiple content creators or multiple topics in one channel for them to have any hope of accumulating viewers, but sometimes you just want to watch one creator or one topic, y'know. Makes you not take it seriously when the aggregation channel uploads so you end up missing videos your actual favourite creator made.
Some guy creates like ten minutes of high quality animation but only posts once every several months? Well, I've watched and/or clicked through more than 1k videos since then so he's screwed.
@junoguten Or at the very least, it favors people who use (generally expensive) animation software with crap-loads of time saving features. Putting the little guys out, and putting certain types of animation out (high quality raytraced 3D animation, classic Cel animation...)
CZcams just promotes family freindly fidget spinner channels
3AM!
quality has seemed to be dropping from youtube
just look at how many views all those shitty viners music videos and reaction videos are getting
like WTF youtube stop recommending me these videos and (as I type this comment a "react" video has popped up right next to this comment about staff reacting to cats???)
the people running youtube really need to think of the long term effects of their algorithm changes
Very good points made and ideas shared. It makes one think about the future of CZcams in general.
As a beginning educational type channel, I certainly hope that the "algorithm is the audience case" becomes the more dominant. I've certainly learned a lot of CZcams and I think it'll be such a shame if future audiences on CZcams in the coming years don't get the same high-quality content that we've all enjoyed previously. Thanks for bringing this up Derek.
2010: good content, 3min video, that worth 5min buffering
2015: 10 min videos, that has no point
such waste of time. but hey, that's what youtube want
CZcams wants the money... It's the people who watch that actually care WHAT is being put out, but the people have no vote these days... Well, we can vote by not watching, but most people won't give up their cookie...
That's why AdBlock is such a great tool. Screw CZcams's advertisers.
Is actually one of the reasons I stopped uploading to CZcams on my oother.com channel. Essentially once I learned that my daily let's play game videos accured way way way way way more subscribers than my two days to make videos I basically gave up. Hopefully one of these days I will make my project that I really have been looking to make for a while but it might not be worthwhile.
I kind of get sucked in by your second type - There must be a point, so I keep watching waiting for it then - blank (They've got me, another view, Blast - what a waste of time)
The problem is these clickbait CZcamsrs who just go for the 10-minute mark and money. And the famous but so annoying "DO YOU WANT TO JOIN MY FREE GIFT CARD GIVEAWAY?" CZcams just doesn't give a shit about them. If they wanted they could've banned those CZcamsrs along time ago. But they don't. Wierd.
Honestly, THIS is what I love about Veritasium. These philosophical approaches to your videos, working through it in my head while you're talking over the major points. Whether or not CZcams's algorithms are hurting your views, you've got some staunch loyalists that will keep following you as long as you keep being educational, rational, and thoughtful. Rock on.
I'm sure he really appreciates your loyalty. The question is how much longer can people who create this level of high quality content continue to do so with the way that youtube treats views now.
Are you sure the tail-end of your graph isn't a Red-Herring?
... You uploaded much more frequently over a shorter period of time. if you stretched the x-axis of the tail-end to align with the frequency of the rest of the graph, would it then still be climbing?
why is this recomended it to me today?
It's popped up again. It's resurfacing because it's relevant.
Its just more relevant now ig
We've seen this in full effect :/ Thanks for all your insight, insanely helpful.
devinsupertramp we've noticed the effect on your video views. A shame really. Do you have plans to alter your video content?
Unfortunately this is going to get worse as Google and CZcams try to catch up with Facebook. Their latest changes with the introduction of the feed and follow buttons shows where are going.
Stefanos Kofopoulos what is this follow button you speak of.
It's the new personalized feed in their Search apps for iOS and Android which offers a follow button now. thenextweb.com/google/2017/07/19/googles-new-follow-button-search-results-brings-trending-stories-straight-phone/
They also killed instant search on desktops because they now get most of their searches on mobile.. iOS and Android. It all fits.
it sucks
It's really important to talk about the problems with general internet algorithm. It is way harder for me now to find new content I didn't know before. When CZcams shows the content rather randomly, you sometimes find stuff you didn't knew about before. But when everything is adjusted to what you previously watched and is currently trending, you get stuck in a filter bubble. I now sometimes watch videos on different browsers, just so I don't see similar content for the next few month. The "improvements" to the algorithm make youtube less and less attractive to me. Which Google doesn't know about because they have no way to measure it. They work with flawed feedback.
+
"It is way harder for me now to find new content I didn't know before."
And it's much harder for creators who make things you might enjoy to connect with you, too. The algorithms used can be hard to work with for both viewer and creator, but become necessary when 65 years of content are uploaded daily.
I recommend spending time deliberately seeking out other viewpoints, as well as mastermind groups where applicable that can think outside their immediate sphere of influence.
While I also think that change needs to happen, I don't think there really is a way for google to receive feedback in a useful and productive way. I can't really see any solutions.
The thing is, honestly, I think that getting feedback from people, like a simple 1 question questionnaire - "Do you enjoy the videos suggested to you? Rate 1 - 5" - would probably damage the site, due to a foreseeable misinterpretation of the results. In general, people will put on things like that a partial positive result (4/agree) as they don't have any particular opinion. There will only be a spike in negative opinion for those audiences with awareness of the problems with the algorithm. Those audiences will be people that watch channels like Veritasium and CGP Grey. This could easily be interpreted as people are not enjoying the content about science and the like, therefore the algorithm will stop showing it. In this way, feedback actually only acts to perpetuate ignorance about issues, rather than resolve them. People aiming to spread awareness are not shown to viewers, as they lower the mood of the viewers.
Therefore, the only way I can see CZcams going is to continue this trend into prioritising temporary trends and cheap videos. This doesn't even need to be specific feedback about the way the site is run. By nature, the videos we watch on channels such as this are thought provoking. I may be expanding into cynicism here, but in general, anything considered 'thought provoking' could also be interpreted as depressing, as on the subject of the opposite - happiness - to quote the common phrase "ignorance is bliss".
>But when everything is adjusted to what you previously watched and is currently trending, you get stuck in a filter bubble.
This. Everyday I get recommended a bunch of videos that I have already watched from the same uploader over and over again and finding something new has got progressively over time, to the point that I was unaware that some creators I follow have several channels that are similar in size and popularity, however I was never made aware of the other ones unless I get out of my way to find out which wasn't easy either.
Trending is equally broken with mostly fads (fidget spinners anyone?), TV/movie trailers and very niche content that went viral (in NZ you regularly see random Bollywood and K-pop songs on trending). I just stopped checking after a while.
Instead of using multiple browsers, you can try private/incognito browsing in your preferred browser.
Maybe a possible solution is to link your oldest videos to your news one. If your video is about physics for example you can recommend a playlist about the subject or one/two other videos with the same theme. So those who are interested in the content will have a fast way to see more (without having to open your channel and searching for the videos)
Thats why end screen (i dont really know how they are called) and description are supposed to be there, linking offtopic videos is kinda stupid.
Precisely my own observations as well.
Click-baited live "giveaway" channels will be the death of CZcams live. Which is really ironic considering those are the streams that CZcams recommends to watch.
So what you're saying is: more 10 min.+ ASMR videos posted frequently and less science/ educational infrequent videos to make my CZcams career successful?? Got it!
The algorithm revisited its "long tail" and recommended this to me, in 2019, two years after you made it. Judging from the ages on the other comments, there may currently be an "anniversary bump" in the algorithm.
If CZcams were smart they'd figure out how to apply different kinds of algorithms to different types of content. Fast algorithms for news channels where today's news needs to be recommended today and a slow algorithm for educational videos that will remain relevant and recommend weeks, months, and years from now.
And they would not even have to hire people to make brand new algorithms, they could use a clustering algorithm (which is designed to cluster data points into separate groups) to separate the content into different groups, so news group, education group, gaming group. And then train separate algorithms for separate groups to give content. And for good measure a 3rd algorithm that measures how much you like certain groups so you might hate news, loves gaming, and kinda likes education. Do all of this and you have yourself the perfect algorithm.
This is why I use the sub feed.
Pirateboy04 ...which is also very unreliable. The sub feed doesn't show you every video from everyone you're subbed to, unfortunately.
Don't know about you, but I've never missed a video via the subscribers tab or felt that I did in the past few years. It's organised by date so it is very easy to use.
but the sub feed dosent introduce you to new creators :( a year ago or so when the "all activity" tab existed instead of the "Trending" tab it was amazing. You could see what videos your subscriptions liked or commented on... that led to me finding new channels daily.
Dan Germata I collab videos to find new creators. I discovered Wheezy Waiter through vlogbrothers, and then The Good Stuff through Wheezy Waiter. Likewise, I discovered Physics Girl through Veritasium.
Frankly I have too many to watch these days and actually need to cut some out.
I use sub feed too, but i have been noticing people using very very clickbaity titles and that just makes me cringe. one such example is TheKingofRandom. he used to have damn good videos, but now its soo much of fucking clickbait and his thumbnails are also like that. i unsubbed. its too cringy
Great vid - a lot of what you're noticing we have noticed, especially about majority views in first day and the impact of clickbait title/thumbnail. In fairness, we've tried to make our thumbnail and title not misleading (with 1 or 2 exceptions) to reduce negativity. Another thing we've seen is random view spikes in videos many months after uploaded. Seemingly no rhyme or reason to which ones get it, which ones don't and how much they get viewed. Doesn't seem like it will go back to how it was so you've gotta move with it or get left behind (on YT anyway). Hope you're well Derek!
I also hope he is well!
London is looking absolutely beautiful in this video.
CZcams has effectively replaced TV for me. So having a good algorithm is quite important for me as a viewer. And now that I have gotten back into creating content, it matters to me as a creator.
I never watch the garbage youtube reccomends to me, I always look for quality over quantity.
Thanks for articulating this! I'm not crazy!!! It's highly demoralizing to spend days making a quality video only to see it be forgotten. It's even more demoralizing when I see myself lowering my quality to try catching up. I'm at a point of giving up. I've lost much motivation.
Your channel is amazing! I love it!
Thanks. I appreciate it. And the only reason I've kept making videos for the last year is because of comment feedback like yours from viewers of the channel. Still It's just easier to grab a camera and talk away about a controversial topic for around 12 minutes minimum, put click-bait title and thumb and do it everyday. It may be easier but I feel weird doing it, so I don't do it. I like to do well constructed videos. If you compare the first videos I did to my latest ones I had to sacrifice so much in production. When you are essentially working for free and get videos killed by the algorithm despite positive comments it's like getting punched in the stomach.
This is what happens when you try to apply a "one-size fits all" algorithm.
I got this video in my recommendation after 3 years of upload and about one year after I subscribed this channel and this is the first time I am watching it
Am I the only person that almost only watches videos from my subscriptions?
Yeah, this is me. It's surreal to talk about people relying on notifications or home page for what they watch, when for me, I have always used subscription tab (since that is the only place that will have every video no matter what)
DoomsdayFighter
I get too many awesome recommendations for me to do that. It's recommended me awesome channels like this one and William osman :)
NO, i almost fit that category, but i do occasionally follow recommendations from within a channel if it's something I haven't seen. I do also occasionally watch what CZcams's algorithm thinks I might be interested in, but not often, as it is often not a good indicator of whether i will want to watch more and subscribe. I currently subscribe to a bit over a hundred channels but even within this list i tend to go to a core of about 30 on a daily basis. Obviously it depends on the channel and its regularity/quantity of output.
???? My subscriptions appear correctly and always do. I keep them in alphabetic order and updates appear numerically for me against each channel name, They occasionally don't show that a new vid has been posted to a subscription, but i definitely don't see what you seem to be reporting.
q Frostbite, are you SURE that you're not confusing the home page or the notifications tab with the subscriptions box? Your subscriptions page (unlike your notifications or your home page) should ALWAYS be a chronological listing of everything released by channels you're subscribed to.
If you think this is not the case, i would love for you to take screenshots of the missing video in your subscription page vs when it was published by the channel.
I call this the Potato Chip Effect. CZcams is aggressively pushing videos that are quick and disposable because they want viewers to consume as much content as possible. In essence, they want viewers to "gobble up" videos quickly, then move on to the next and the next and the next... exactly how one might eat a bag of potato chips. They want more people to spend more time watching higher number of shorter videos because that gives them more opportunities to SERVE ADS. CZcams is very carefully shaping traffic on the platform to get people to change the way watch/consume content at the most fundamental level. They are doing this becuase they want to make more money. Longer, quality videos provide less breaks/intervals to place ads. This is the new CZcams people. More crap... shorter crap.... move on to the next.
LanceCampeau But videos that are longer get ads every 15 minutes or so instead!
LanceCampeau eating chips while reading this lol
@@woah5616 Websites like youtube work on the premise that the great majority of users don't use adblock, if most users did then site wouldn't be able to run or pay the content producers.
There is no way around it since no one would pay for using youtube, even if a channel was self founded the channel would have to pay for hosting in order to get their video hosted, for a small channel with little to no renew that would be an impediment to use the service.
A possible solution to help solving the problem is dtube and the steem network, which basically uses likes as digital tokens of value as part of a blockchain reward system, but idk how well that would actually work, aka how valuable the likes would be, problem is also poses the that small channels wouldn't be able to get enough likes to in order to keep the content seeded on the IPFS network.
With this said, if I didn't have adblock I personally would just quit using youtube, like seriously I guess I could put up with the footer ads, but those unskipable TV commercials at the beginning of the videos, hell no, rather do something else!
hee hee I have ad block and I haven't watched an ad in years.
I really love and support both of your channels! Thank you for all the amazing content you put out there! It quite inspirational and the information contained within is amazing! Keep spreading knowledge!
I just spent 6 months building and then meticulously filming a CZcams video about world's first flying Esky / Cooler Drone. After 14 years in the video industry it is one of the videos & creations I am most proud of. I uploaded it to CZcams, it got 6k views on the first day then almost nothing. My audience (who saw it) loved it, but 4 days later it is "old content"...I am now making a Fidget Spinner video...The...Algorithm... is...the...Content.
Turnah81 spending 6 months filming one video is very risky and bad strategy to grow on CZcams tbh.
Feel for you, bro.
You are right, but that fact is also a direct result of the current
algorithm. Say if I worked on the same video full time It probably
could have been completed in about 6 to 7 weeks. A 6 week video release
cycle is still not a good way to grow on CZcams. Higher quality videos
are not a good strategy with the current algorithm.
yeah, if you're not putting out at least 3 videos a week then it's best for you to change your content strategy if you actually want to grow.
if you go into youtube thinking about making money, you will fail
The unfortunate part of what I'm seeing is that youtube often recommends to me videos that I've already watched, again and again. When the channels I've subscribed to upload new content, it will recommend those videos. For channels like yours, for content I already know I enjoy, that works great. however, that doesn't help me find new creators very easily. I often rely on the channels I'm subscribed to to recommend other channels through their videos. Not sure where i'm going with this but that's my experience. I'm re-shown videos all the time and it takes me away from any new content and creators.
I agree. I get the same suggestions or ones that are totally irrelevant to the one I watched.
I got this recommendation today and I've been watching your recent works too. They are informative and exciting. Keep it up, your quality and enthusiasm. Thanks
Whether I watch long or short videos depends on the time I have available at the moment. But if the video is of good quality I'd rather watch one of your 7+ years old vids than a video of lower quality oploaded today. I've been watching your videos for quite a while. But in the last month or so I've really been going over almost every video you've made that I have yet to watch. And I will keep doing so simply be cause your videos very often gets me thinking about stuff on a deeper level. Love your work
He walked right past our hotel when we were staying there and I missed him
All these algorithms are done by a learning AI. All it wants is for people to stay on the site for as long as possible. Because of this, for the AI, quantity > quality.
+Gertrude Smeetheens it's actually a misconception that CZcams's algorithm is all AI. Parts of it are and other parts aren't
I would like to see video about this misconception like in the old days :)
AI still needs people to define what the parameters are, is it views? Is it likes? Is it watch duration? is it comments? Is it re-watch counts? Is it subscribers? All of which comes down to number of ads watched / clicked into, but an AI can only optimize the system based on these parameters which are set by people, perhaps it could randomize the parameters itself to experiment into seeing what results in most ads watched / clicked, but still, I suspect humans are still involved quite heavily.
Derek could you please talk about science of sanding/ abrasion , I'm sure there was a lot to talk about, wet sanding , dry sanding, the act of sanding stuff shape our civilization, it was a big deal, you know? and so far no one really talk about it
Yeah, machine learning is directing CZcamss path...I dont even know if they know what THE Algorithm IS actually...lol!
It's that *new* tag they started putting on videos. If it don't got that tag, I don't usually watch it. That's gotta have a decent influence on views.
This was a superb video. Honestly, one of the best thought evoking videos all year.
the workaround here is definitely patreon, which is the direction many of the quality over quantity channels are going
The only problem with patreon I see is this: If I wanted to give money to all the channels I watch regularly and have in my mind good quality I would pay way more than for a Netflix subscription, which I don't have. Money is not an endless resource.
Why don't the user have more say in how their algorithm works
Why can't I adjust my personal parameters?
It would be great if I could actively steer my 'recommended'
This would be nice feature. I rarely see anything interesting on YT-home pages or in recommended vids.
Agreed and arguably shouldn't really be all that hard to do just adding some buttons like "More like this" and "Less like this" that would increase or decrease the weighting for that video and ones categorised similarly in the future. Ideally with a page in settings listing all the videos you did that on so you can either remove them later or perhaps increase the weighting even further (ideally the step should be fairly small for a single click to prevent it overreacting and effectively becoming "Show me all the things like this and nothing else").
That would also be absolutely wonderful with almost everything Google has made. Looking at Chrome's lack of customizable new tab website list. Pulls up stuff from 6 months ago while removing a site I was just on. The "improved" algorithms seem more and more like failures with each update.
Walter de Vries that doesnt make youtube money.
Seraphina S there already is a way to do that. Click the thee dots next to a video.
Can you make more videos about CZcams
Oh so you're real???
I'm you're fan here
You now have 3 comments...
Lol everyone is just staring at you and looking back at you like, “Is that guy really talking to a camera”?
I want timeless Quality, not Quantity.
meanwhile Vsauce is dead..
Vsauce is primarily dead because now you have to pay to watch their videos.
Nicholas Yang not really, he's not even uploading paid videos anymore.
Nicholas Yang I think he's mostly working on the touring show with Adam Savage?
But it proves a good point that a lot of the best quality videos on CZcams are having a harder and harder time standing out compared to daily streamers and clickbait flash in the pan.
VSauce gets views like a baby crying in a restaurant even a week still after he uploads, I don't know why they (mostly being Michael, Jake has his short little vlogs to keep people updated) haven't uploaded in so long
Apparently he just finished recording a few days ago. He just needs to edit.
It's worth it. They're super quality
You're onto something 👌🏼
CZcams: if I've subscribed to someone, i want to see their vídeos, i do NOT care on other people's opinions, i want to see the vídeo and be notified of it.
Dj Slimdick but how will you find out about a channel to subscribe to t if you've never recommended it to you in the first place?
@@penguinexpress12 They usually just recommend shitty click baity channels that does anything for views and think spending an hour on a video means its quality content....
Jakob yeah I agree with you. I was just playing devil's advocate.
what we need is Keemstar and Scarce for Science and Tech channels, you guys need to start fake drama with each other, have someone report on it and drive views to your channels.
yeah lol _Breaking news, Derek from Veritasium called Hank Green a quote, 'Little Punk Ass'_
Desi FailVids CGP Grey nudes leaked? huh, what?
Desi FailVids Breaking news, Vsauce is a nazi
Every single video that is "Recommended for you" in my case is a video I liked (and thus already watched). But I also think that it's almost if not entirely music videos I watched just recently and multiply times.
I recently cleared all my watch and search history. Then I watched one music video. Now ALL the recommended videos were music videos.
After a while of watching other content, it seems to sort of stabilise. Just kidding. It shows videos I've already watched.
I got this recommended to me today. I agree very much with the content. What I've noticed over the last few years is that I get much less videos that I really want to watch. I keep getting recommended stuff that is almost exactly like what I've already watched - and sometimes stuff that I've already watched a few years ago. But I really want a good mixture between something new and interesting; and something I know and love. I don't want to be stuck in some bubble or echo chamber, and it seems like that's exactly what Google wants me to do. Quality content is much harder for me to find on CZcams these days. I hope I find another way to find new interesting quality content in the future, if CZcams doesn't.
Funnily enough this is the first video from this channel that's popped up on my CZcams. I'm subbed and really enjoy your Veritasium channel
As veritasium says he doesn't' think CZcams is trying to be tv, I see an ad for CZcams tv
CZcams was triggered!
please don't reduce the quality, please I beg you, no matter what the stats say, no matter what audience say, You be Veritasium for ever, never change
The unfortunate reality is that even successful CZcams creators still have bills to pay. It can be a massive difficulty (and expense) not to chase numbers, trends and positive reinforcements and stick to your creative vision.
The very best way to keep creators up and running making the content they want to make is by supporting them!! Share their videos, support them on Patreon if you can, watch ads for them on Tad App, etc. The more a creator is supported, the more they can do with their creative vision.
the pursuit of integrity is, in a short-term-gratifying world, a pursuit of generosity. It's an interminable battle.
Let the guy adapt to the times, his content is still pretty awesome, all we can do is hope the average user changes the way they consume videos or wait until CZcams gets smarter and helps all different kind of users find the content they truly care about.
G'Day Mate no, he doesn't. he could very easily get a different or supplemental job. if the platform isn't a viable way to make enough, the solution isn't "I have to make enough from the videos"; the solution is to find something else that is viable.
Cory Goodman
now that's a really good answer
This is one of the best videos I've seen this year. Thank you for the insight
The algorithm peaked in 2015, back in those days you would end up down deep rabbit holes of interesting videos and stumble upon things/channels you've never heard of yet was really interesting. Now it just seems to recommend the same exact content you've already been watching making it much harder to find new content and channels that would interest you.
I still prefer quality. There are a few channels I already stopped watching because they were sucked into the "lets release a shitty video every day"
It works for a while but then people are catching up.
Or you could just leave the science and start producing minecraft videos. Maybe show a bit of skin.
Adam Koncz *ahem* The King of Random
ahem true
*And clickbaiting won't work forever.*
I remember a year+ ago I would see a clickbait title and click immediately _BECAUSE I HAD TO WATCH IT!_ But now, I want to click, and just tell myself it's not worth my time, since what's in the title isn't what's going to be in the video.
And many of the clickbaiters have literally no content on their videos. You clickbait because you want more views and money, but it's also kind of because if you posted what you're actually doing, you wouldn't get views, since you're doing it every day for the $$$.
There are quite a a few channels I don't subscribe to because their stupid clickbait titles annoy me too much
If you have a big red arrow on the thumbnail, I'm going to assume your content is shit
The algorithm suggested this video, I am subbed to your main channel not this one. So score one for the algorithm. I stopped watching all daily vloggers because of the repeditivness and lack of quality. I hope you are not forced into that same idea of "just keep uploading" to get more views. Quantity is not quality.
Jonny B same thing happened to me, and same opinion from me too.
same here!!
Subscribed to his main channel and that one was in my main page !
Even If it was late, Im quite happy.
+
Very interesting pints of view, thanks for posting.
There should be a choice for the audience to select the type of algorithm that they experience. Whether they want and enjoy 'click-baity' simplicity or want to use the platform for a different more educational atmosphere. There should be a choice available to the people who CZcams should care about. Hang in there glorious content creators!! Your fans are still alive!
The strong point of CZcams is precisely that content never gets deleted, you can come back and watch a video years after it has been published. So do we want to see newsy cheap videos from years ago or do we want to see qualitative educational video from years ago that are still relevant, and will probably continue being for years to come?
I honestly think that moving towards quantity is a short term solution to CZcams's money problem; one that doesn't work in the long term.
Cristian Pintea Good point. We also need to take into consideration that the age of the average YT viewer who spends a lot of time on this platform is probably somewhere around 12. They are the ones bringing most money to this platform (given that they watch a lot of ads) so the content they favor gets prioritized by the algorithm. And from my experience, they tend to prefer fresh, simple, fidget-spinery content rather than complex, quality videos with substance.
Cristian Pintea You could see that from a different perspective. If all CZcams videos were newsly trend quantitative videos, one wouldn't watch older videos because they haven't content. So CZcams could keep more of this videos in a cold storage.
In my opinion, small, newsly, poorly content that blows in views are the more profitable for CZcams.
My argument is based in what Derek spoke in the video. CZcams creates 65 years in content every hour(?). The more content they can cold storage, the better.
I'm sure youtube knows my age, can't it adapt to my needs?
It's really saddening. CZcams has the chance and power to actually make people learn more and become better persons, to bring the best teachers and makers in the whole world right to the room of children and actually everybody. But what do they do? 1000 degree knife vs fidget spinner and what trump tweeted last night. Good job, CZcams, good job...
Aldo its easy money
What did he tweet?
you're part of the problem Yonatan24
As someone who was recommended this in 2021, I still sometimes get recommended vids from 5-8 years ago, and for some of those videos I have no idea why but then I end up enjoying them anyways. Sometimes I feel like the algorithm is getting a little too good at this.
CZcams recommended me this a year after it was uploaded (and I never watched a video from you before), they might be currently fixing this problem.
Vimeo prefers quality. I think its the future
Chuan: Problem is creators don't make money on Vimeo, so they don't have much incentive to spend the time to make quality videos there
@Alex Knauth: On the contrary, many people use Vimeo to present works they've made for their portfolio, so they use it like a résumé. Companies often use it for tutorials, demo reels, etc, because they have a bit more control over the videos, (e.g. they can update a video to fix a mistake, unlike on CZcams), etc. It's a different sort of content, but some of it is very high quality. (Like on CZcams, much of it is meh, but that's beside the point.)
Chuan vimeo is completely different in terms of its userbase. no one would upload or view fidget spinner videos
But also as far as I know no one would call themselves a full-time Vimeo creator; all the Vimeo videos I've seen (not very many, I admit it) have been from people who make their living in other ways, and their Vimeo videos are just side-effects
The problem with Vimeo, well at least for content creators that depend on the revenue that a platform can provide, is that the monetization options aren't there, heck, you have to pay them to increase certain limits (amount of uploaded data), so it's a platform geared towards to creating and curating portfolio material, not so much for mainstream high quality content consumption, right now there's no viable competitor for CZcams, Vessel was a good idea, but it failed (some telco bought the platform and gutted it for the technology)
I hope the people in charge of the algorithm sees this and can balance it out a bit. I can tell you from only the perspective of a viewer that I too have felt the quality of videos on the platform go down. Also I feel like the algorithm is mindlessly discarding channels that I subscribed to because they don't upload often enough. I can handle my subscriptions myself, I do not care for the bell system.
I have no doubt that CZcams employs many bright and talented engineers who spend their days doing nothing but trying to better balance the algorithm. The problem is that it's not just an easy fix. From an automated perspective, how should it be decided what people what to watch, or more accurately, how to get them to stay on the site longer? There is no silver bullet, I suspect. There's also likely a whole slew of unintended consequences for any and all changes made (given that there's 65 YEARS of content uploaded to CZcams every day).
I think the best that's possible right now is to continue tweaking given the ongoing input of viewers and creators, and a bit of moral fiber to put the growth and thriving of the platform and it's creators at a higher priority than simply driving watch time and ad revenue.
this development is intentional. they have no interest in "balancing it out".
Morjax Plays I just wish they'd take human entropy into account. It seems our brain stems are eating us alive.
Just so.
In other news, "Our Brain Stems Are Eating Us Alive" is my new cover band.
What if someone were to make a chrome extension that changed the CZcams homepage with a better version of the recommendation algorithm that was more creator friendly by analyzing statistics of videos from Socialblade? I have no idea if that's feasible, but just thought of it as an interesting possible solution.
That would be violation of the TOS
@@derick1697 so is ad block, so what?
@@derick1697 Honestly who actually gives a shit about the TOS for any piece of software? Lawyers, that's who.
Thankfully, I'm not a lawyer.
Try the app Sparcle
apart from violating the TOS and therefore probably being taken off the chrome web store and 90% of it's market, this would be hard and impractical from a technichal standpoint without access to all the data that youtube has.
This video reached to my feed today, two years later.
Regardless of the trend in CZcams. We , the fans of Veritasium would always support this channel because we truly love the videos you upload and truly love science in general.😋
I appreciate that! The only problem is making videos that aren't financially viable. I rely on CZcams as my main (and in theory reliable) source of income. If it continues to change as it has, I will have to make the unfortunate decision of either changing what I make to make it more frequently, or risking not being able to pay the bills.
Veritasium
CZcams 's greatest strength - "diversity" is now it's biggest problem. CZcams has failed to classify different kinds of content.
The best move for it would be to have different algorithms for different kind of channels and audiences if it wants to maintain such a diversity in viewership.
All it cares for now is watchtime.
It won't be long before this move backlashes and CZcams is reduced to a waste.
I've seen apparent success with channels having multiple shows so they can have consistent releases that aren't always this 1 great style of thing that the channel is known for. Different shows/themes like how Animaniacs had their recurring segments. Adopting this could also provide a bit more structure upon which to put videos. Coming up with 20 instances of 1 thing and 20 instances of another thing can be a bit easier than doing 40 instances of 1 thing.
Bhuvanesh Sridharan yeah, if I don't see my favourite creators in my subbox I check their channel and if I didn't see any of the new videos, I unsub and resub to reset my subscription
pay wall?
I as a medical student wanted to start a channel with detailed monthly content but with all the changes happening on youtube... nah. It's probably because youtube is closer to 13 years old. Puberty and stuff.
I'm watching this later than when you uploaded but only bc I saved in in my watch later. Which idk if anyone else uses it but when I get a notification from one of the youtubers I have my notifs on for, including veritasium's channels, but I don't have time rn, I save it to watch later and it comes up in my recommended every few days until I finally watch it
I fear the algorithm. If I click on anything different I get flooded with videos of things outside my interests. I have to start asking CZcams to stop recommending channels and then I get every other channel on the same content.
Veritasium, Kurzgesagt, Smarter every day, are my favored youtube channels ❤️ ❤️ 💓 ❤️ ❤️
AL Haidar you should try
-numberphile
-sixty symbols
and anything Brady makes its so Good.
AL Haidar Vsauce also!
If you like experimental science and discovery, not just explanations, Cody's Lab is great!
Same
Udumfck reminds me that Cody is affected also. the way he announced a change in uploads and more frequency over quality. still amazing content but CZcams needs to talk about this issue and about the ad stuff. PC culture or whatever made all these sponsors pull their ads. Pressure from entertainment industry dems.
quality is a long run model
but
quantity is short term boost
Very well put together content, thank you! I think the shift in the platform also can be seen as a shift from favoring the logical and self-aware side of the audience to the emotional side of the audience. Quick content that generates instant and strong emotions (especially hate) wins, and that seems to be an inevitable path all media end up taking, which is really sad.
got recommended this today, close to two years after the upload.
I totally agree, it's the King of Random effect. The more videos uploaded, the worse the content is the more views he gets, the more videos he releases and the worse the content gets. The "random feedback effect". Click bait thumbs and titles. I click them, for sure in a moment of weakness.
I've got into Issac's futurism videos because it's great content. CZcams was a great platform for educational videos but maybe that was it's bias and it turns out many more people upload CZcams drama, atheists Vs religion, fidget spinner, meme-esk videos. So in our (?pseudo?) democratic society the many have spoken...
Richard Casemore cool. #FIDGETSPINNERSSUCK #killfigetspins as you can tell, i hate fidget spinners.
Stirring up random drama appears to be the most efficient way to grow a channel, because it provokes high interaction rate. Well besides your usual clickbait.
I guess it doesn't work for everyone, but you do get more one time views. I unsubbed from Grant because his videos had become utter crap. Regular, but utter crap. At least like 4 videos on chicken in silicon.
Stay with quality, please. I am sure nearly everyone here has subscribed to at least 50 channels, including myself (59). Every day, I receive emails from CZcams of new videos being uploaded and the number is at least 30! I don't watch most of them because I filter them just by looking at the titles, I can see through how much the uploaders 'force' themselves to do this for quantity.
Just had this suggested to me, i'm glad i was it's really well laid out
I wont change how i do my videos regardless of how CZcams treats them, i'll keep doing less than 1 a month so i can make it better
This is probably the most coherent explanation that ive seen so far on the dichotomy of youtube. Some thing I wished he would have touched on would be the CZcams not showing me what I subscribed too.
*there is no hope for me.*
Low quality + Low quantity.
Woops.
Just checked out your channel. Good stuff.
@@ReflectiveLayerFilm At first I thought this was lik one of those bot things and now I'm a fan and want him to come back :/
THE algorithm.
The Algorithm works in mysterious ways.
Paul J. Morton Praise be Lord Algorithm.
That sounds like an epic scifi
This just popped up in my recommended feed. I watched it not realizing I'd already like it, so I watched it at some point before, but it didn't show the progress bar at the bottom signifying I'd watched it.
What I had just watched were a few videos on the rapidly declining quality of a few popular online games and the massive missteps the devs had taken. That seems like a pretty clear connection to me. only about a 48 hour turnaround between the first of 3 or 4 game quality/problem vids before this popped up. Clear as a bell given what I know about how YT works.
I love watching the reactions of the people in the background
Am I the only one who never rely on CZcams, I just use my sub box and watch every thing that is interesting to me, I don't need CZcams to choose what should I watch.
Yes, I am extremely interested in this. From a lot of the comments, it seems as if people don't realize that the subscriptions page is the place where every video posted by channels people are subscribed to goes.
Osama Al-Alawi But what if someone really good comes along?