Are Flat Pedals Actually Just As Fast As Clipless Pedals?
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- Over the years, we’ve done a few tests comparing flat and clipless pedals - the two main options for road cyclists. Many roadies live by the superiority of clipless, but have we been getting it all wrong? With dedicated flat cycling shoes and grippy pedals, flats can be a realistic option. Conor & Hank compare them on a hill climb, a 5km TT and a sprint, to see which are actually faster!
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00:00 Intro
01:57 The setups
02:37 Steep climb - clipless
03:46 Steep climb - flats
05:53 Steep climb results
07:54 Time trial - flats
09:30 Time trial - clipless
10:32 Sprint - clipless
11:29 Sprint - flats
12:04 TT & sprint results
15:05 Conclusions
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Do you prefer clipless or flat pedals? And has this video made you rethink? Let us know in the comments below! 👇
Clipless better
Why do you never include clips and staps as a third option?
I've always rode flats for 30 years, never tried clipless. I mostly commute so lots of stop start so for me flats all the way, far safer and quicker to pull away. I would like to see gcn to do another much longer run test though, perhaps spread over two days with near identical weather so you have time to recover.
And... The embarrassing fall-overs with Clip pedals. Flats win hands-down.
Flats for me. Tried 3 times to switch. After breaking my ribs the third time... I'm sticking with flats
The simple fact that something clippy is called clipless makes my head explode everytime.
Clipless is a reference to not having toe clips. It is funny that they will be called clipless long after people have forgotten that toe clips were once the norm.
It's stupid terminology. You literally clip in yet they refer to as clipless.
In german we say "Klickpedale", so click pedals is my english word for it.
Before I read your comment I was actually trying to understand it,
I thought flat pedals should be the clipless ones
Yet, I was struggling to understand. Then I recalled my old days of cleats and toe clips. Nowadays, toe clips are essentially extinct. Probably time to use terms like flat pedals and cleat pedals.
I've almost exclusively ridden flat pedals for my whole life and a couple of days ago I wanted to test out clipless pedals to see what all the fuzz and arguing back and forth was about. So what I, with a copple of Km under my belt have discovered and felt so far is (Note this was not the same bike):
1. While riding normally on flat roads there's no big difference apart from the shoes and my foot position (this being "locked down" with clipless pedals).
2. Riding up hills using clipless felt smoother, even more so when standing. I really felt like I could "pull" myself up hills. With flat pedals I now feel like a car engine needing a high RPM to sustain my speed and power going up a hill. AKA, clipless pelals can gives me a smoother power delivery going up hills, especially when standing.
3. Clipless is feels way more taxing on my muscles rather than my stamina, however flat pedals are more taxing on my stamina rather than my muscles. But this might just be my body using other muscle groups while riding with clipless pelals.
So to summarize my experience with clipless pedals so far. I like clipless pedals and can appreciate the benefits. But I don't see clipless pedals as the best solution all of the time. It's a really neat technology but I think people are making clipless pedals a way bigger deal than they are.
Hopefully this was at least an entertaining read. Thanks for reading.
I'm sort of opposite to you: been riding clipless for 20 years and switched to flats in the last 3 weeks. I did so because I realized clipless was destroying both my achilles tendons. After going to flats and riding nearly on my heels or mid-sole, the calf, ankle and achilles strain has 100% disappeared. It's given my legs a new lease on life without the need for surgery (I already contacted a surgeon, but will now back out of surgery since discovering how drastic a change flat pedals have been). As for climbing, there is a difference on how the body puts down power. I felt more power coming out of my glutes and thighs, but zero fatigue in the calves (of course that was the point for me). Glutes and thighs are the largest muscles in the human body - calves are NOT. I've set several climbing PB's in the last 3 weeks, all during a time I was considering surgery! I'll never ride clipless again for the rest of my life.
@@SMathai Cool story and fantastic that it helped so much with PBs and your health... As a sidenote if you want to optimise performance (power and etc) while riding flats for better PBs. Try to ride on the "ball" of the foot. It feels strange in the beginning to ride so "far up" on the foot, but trust me it's the best way to ride if you want the best power, given if you *can* ride that way. Using the middle part (or even the heel) of the foot feels natural but can leave a *lot* of potential power on the table.
Good luck with the riding! Stay safe!
@@r3ttgaming177 I'll be sticking with the mid-sole and near the heel to save my achilles. Riding clipless on the balls of my feet has destroyed them. So far I'm seeing only benefits, including actually riding faster/stronger mid-sole or near the heel rather than the balls of my feet anyway. In my case it's possible it's because I no longer have to push through pain. Regardless, no more balls of my feet except in technical terrain on my MTB.
@@SMathai your Achilles tendons were destroyed from consistent pulling up on the clipless pedals, not just because you were using cycling shoes.. I rode for 15 years as a bike messenger on a fixed gear using clipless and I don't have much of a problem, even after getting in an accident with a car that bent my knees backward(i was not at fault)..
I also rode all that time without a "mechanical brake" on my bike meeting law requirements with a "Static" brake via clipless retention.. yet now I have a front disc brake too.
I also didn't ride like a demon ALL the time.. just when it was safe enough to... or so I thought until a car cut in front of a row of cars and sent me off the windshield..
@@bikinglikebecker I'm not claiming achilles issues will happen to everyone. I rarely did any pulling up, the pain was all on pushing down. I just might have sh!t tendons that aggravate easily. What's clear in your case is cars, bikes and knees don't mix very well 😱- I hope your knees have recovered!!
What this demonstrates is that for a non-competitive rider, you're not giving up that much using flats. That's a significant for someone like me. Clipless are inconvenient for the casual rider looking for recreation or exercise etc. Walking in clipless shoes sucks. I have never fallen over on a bike in flats but, I have more than once in clipless. I replaced all my clipless pedals a few years back....this validates that decision thanks!
What validates your decision more than anything is that you are less prone to fall on flats. If flats were as fast and as effective as clipless, you'd see them in pro peloton. You don't.
Agreed!!!
@@jooohan- I think you're missing the point. In competitive races, the difference between 1st place and 10th place can often be measured in seconds. So every little bit helps. If you're just on a casual ride, those few seconds you shave off will be completely lost every time you come to a stop light. So it really won't matter as much.
@@christopherwebb3517 I understand that. General reasoning around here, though, is that flats - according to this video - are pretty much as fast as clipless. "Pretty much" being the "every little bit helps" from your reaction regarding the pro peloton.
So if leisure riding is your goal (with red light stops, nature and coffee breaks et al.), I find it hilarious one would find the fact that - according to this video - flats are "pretty much" as fast as clipless, worth using as a any sort of confirmation bias. Either pro flats, or against clipless. Anyway.
@@jooohan looks like you missed the bit where the OP said "for the non-competitive rider".
These results match pretty much exactly what I was able to sus out on my own. Unless you're going to sprint, there is no difference in performance. But the idea that 'clipless pedals will add 1mph to your average speed' is so ingrained among local cyclists that it's hard to dislodge. Especially after they have paid $220 for shoes and $120 for pedals. That's what is called 'cognitive dissonance'.
Totally agree. I own all kinds of pedals and I just keep coming to the dual sided Shimano PD-EH500. Yeah, heavy but I don't care and I see absolutely no difference when I ride with SPD shoes or just normal stiff soled shoes.
The huge plus being I can ride in traffic in the city without constantly thinking when to unclip.
For me, climbing is also a difference. I actually don't get a massive amount extra when pushing, well at least in terms of feel, but in climbing I can use less gears and that's honestly enough to sway me. Cruising seems a little easier too, but it's mainly the climbs for me.
Where do you get those prices from 😂😂😂😂... My shoes and pedals less than $90
@@phantombigballs8165 well done!
Confirmation bias, I think you mean.
The reason I love my flats is for the opposite reason Connor loves his clipless: I can adjust my foot position intuitively, and I like it!
Nice! Whatever works best for you!
Exactly the same for me. And on hot summer days I even wear open sandals to give my toes fresh air. 😁👌
Same
I like to ride somewhere beautiful and take some nice pictures, and running shoes are SO much more comfortable and convenient than cycling shoes. So I definitely prefer flats, though I get heckled by my fellow riders sometimes, but I'm used to it: I'm also a vegetarian. Marching to the beat of my own drum, ha ha.
Moving the foot position also lets the most tired parts of the muscles recover for a bit. Flat pedals are probably superior for long rides. And much safer in emergencies. And you don't need silly shoes.
I’m not cycling that seriously and have always used flats but I’ve definitely felt pressure to switch to clipless the more I get into it and this just confirmed that I probably don’t need to worry and can still enjoy the benefits of not doing a tap dance around the cafe.
It really is just peer pressure. I’ve ridden both types for cyclocross, long distance tours, and regular road rides. I haven’t seen a difference at all. To be fair I’m not putting down pro level wattage so it really does not matter.
Of course MTB clipless shoes with a flat sole and recessed cleat exist, no doing the tap dance
The cafe tap dance is a right of passage though, right? 😉
@@gcn Perhaps, but only if the cafe allows you in with cleats. (which is sometimes not the case)
@@danlewis7678 Sometimes in my past I have noticed that clipless has given me an advantage of pulling up a stroke. And it was better than clips i used earlier 😂. On the other hand todays flats with those pins are very stable and i like them too.
One thing you didn't touch on was that Connor consistently did faster speeds at lower power outputs on flats. His steep climb on flats was faster overall at lower power. His TT max speed on flats was higher than on clipless, also at lower power. I'd be curious to see the distance differences on the 20s sprint data listed. It actually seems that on clipless you are less efficient than you are on the flats. This may indicate that flat pedals are allowing you to intuitively adjust your foot position for optimal efficiency as you ride. Also, the fact that you still concluded that the flats felt less efficient shows your strong bias toward clipless even in the face of data to the contrary.
Yes odd results. I wonder if when climbing clipless he's trying to uplift through dead spots and this is actually wasted energy not bringing any meaningful force to the stroke. Or maybe his body moves differently on flats in that maybe he's not bouncing on the pedals so much due to feeling less secure and that's wasting less energy. In a way pedalling smother due to the less secure bond. If so both things can be changed when in clipless to match flat data, I'd like to see that test.
Considering they did only one run of this test and a human is not a machine that can run exactly the same for multiple tests back to back I'd say those small variations are meaningless. Unless they do like 10 runs with multiple riders and bikes it's impossible to tell if there's actually any difference. Also it's outdoors and they didn't even bother to measure wind speed and direction, so all those numbers are for the bin.
OK I'm an old biker who started riding 10 speed in 1972 and quickly went to toe straps. In the early eighties one of my riding buddies was a BMXer and he told me about his technic of full circle torque, which I never got the hang of. Until I started doing bike tours. While touring I would use multiple muscle groups to fight off fatigue by changing up heel angels and would unconsciously apply pressure at different points of the circle. In the nineties I went to Mountain biking, and adopted clipless. One afternoon I was daydreaming and staring at a large poster of Tinker Juarez doing a huge bunny hop with flats. His feet were dug in hard into the pedals and his hands were visibly torqueing the bars away from his body. The tension thru his body was intense. And I realized he was pushing into the pedals to pull the bike up and keeping the bike level with the torque on the bars, applying full core strength for the maneuver. It dawned on me that this was what my old BMX friend was trying to teach me years before. So, AT 45 and never having been able get both wheels off the ground. I dumped the clipless and started a whole new approach to how to power a bike and to jump. It's all about how to hold onto the pedals with your toes. On the road I found it easy, as it was the heel shifting technic I had done. On long touring rides I got very good at it, accelerating easily with the full circle torque trick. On the trail I could use the torque to loft the bike and and control the bike in the air with torque thru the bar pushing into the pedals. Now I'm old and riding is still my life. (road and gravel mostly) I use the technic every day on flats and fully believe being clipped in in clown shoes has NO ADVANTAGE. Technic from skill beats equipment hands down.
Great points! I have only used clipless but am coming to believe their advantage is overrated for amateur and recreational riders.
True I never rode clipless so I don't know how it feels in them but you are right about the motion of a bunny hop. I like to compare it to an ollie on a skateboard or snowboard, the motion is pretty much the same; you pull the the bike (or board) up on the front and then push it forwards/down to pull the back up to level - no need for the feet to be attached to the bike.
You could also have trained with flats 1 month before this test. Riding it just for the test gives the clipless an advantage over the flats because you're used to it.
zzzzzzzzzz
Agreed
Please do this
They did kind of allude to this at the end of the video that it may have been more accurate if he’d spent more time training on flats prior to these tests.
They do this video like once every two years and it’s exactly the same. A person who only rides clipped in complaining about not feeling as secure on flats. They never bring in a person who only rides flats to try clipless.
As someone who commutes in an extremely congested city, the ability to dismount at any given instant is very important to me. I’ll be wearing flats until I move to a quieter area.
Yeah city cycling certainly makes the case towards flats
Safety🎉
@@gcn I really like city cycling clipped in (e.g. long commute where I have shoes at the other end) where I can sprint around things without having to worry if I might hit a bump I didn't see and slip off, etc. Of course I am a very long time "clipless" pedal user (from when people knew what that meant), so I never have to think about unclipping (I have managed to unclip and land on my feet when being hit by turning cars). I really prefer MTB pedals for road, though, because they are way easier to clip into, and in the much-less-likely event that you miss clipping in on that first half rotation when starting on a hill in traffic, you can apply force without being clipped in and pedal for a while until an opportunity arises to try again (I don't know about Speedplays, but if you try to put pressure on a not-clipped-in, especially the wrong side of a Look Keo or SPD-road, you *will* slip off with painful consequences of slamming into the saddle at the very least -this is a safety issue). I use flats for MTB because the tipovers in technical terrain happen faster and I have fallen clipped in and that sucks, and flats also for utility riding where I want to be in street shoes as soon as I get off the bike. I only use "road clipless" in the no-traffic, no-hills controlled conditions of the velodrome - where the really big strong guys have augment them with straps to make sure they don't tear out of them!
as someone who commutes in a city on a fixed gear with old school toe clips, i have no idea what youre talking about...
@@MrSmith-rk4jq I'd like to try a fixie one day. But I live in Manila which isn't exactly a bike friendly place. I'll need all the safety precautions I can get.
I ride flats on my carbon road bike and majority of the time I’m passing and beating guys using clipless pedals my average speed is 20-23 mph. The difference comes down to your fitness and bike because I have 64mm deep dish wheels with a very light frame.
@Global Cycling Network Thank you for this video. Giving some support to us cyclists out there who are riding on flats. I am cycling on a road bike since about 3 years and entirely enjoy it. Have 0 ambition to race or be specially fast, and yet all my cycling friends feel entitled to tell me I should switch to clipless. But I just feel perfectly fine with my flats. 1) Can get off bike in emergency situation, 2) don’t fall over at traffic lights/stops which all of my cycling friends do occasionally, 3) can get off on a steep hill, 4) can actually comfortably walk off the bike to do some sightseeing, 5) don’t need to bring a second pair of shoes when going travelling with my bike for multi-day/week trips, 6) be able to move around my foot on the pedal to change position a bit, 7) can wear sandals when it gets warmer (I know an other very contential subject, and yes I know about the Shimano SPD sandals, even owned some but they are such a sore to the eye that I could not bear wearing them and finally sold them in a cycling flea market last year… call it female pride but those Shimano sandals aren’t for me. Maybe Campagnolo could have a design try at them…)
I take these (subjective) advantages over a potential to be just a few seconds faster in a sprint which I am not doing anyway. Plus I am not trying to convert my friends to flat pedals either. Do as YOU feel good on your bike. Freedom of choice for our all feet !
Your friends are the idiots for buying into the clipless nonsense ..It was Look the skiing people who started it off to flog more of their skiing clips .it does nt make any sense at all to be clipped in..the myth of the uplift has been well and truly found out to be true .
I like what you said that you have 0 ambition to race or to be fast, you're a casual road bike user want to enjoy sightseeing on your road bike and can walk easily wherever you want , and ilove that using flat pedal on city riding.
And what flat pedal do you use by the way?
I've done multi day bikepacking races on flats. No problems at all. I like that when something starts to ache you can change your position very easily.
I recently did a backpacking trip, and I agree the ability to move my feet when something starts to ache is a real plus.
Yeah that seems like a beneficial advantage you can make small adjustments for comfort
I agree, I bikepacked across Tasmania recently and the ability to adjust your position to negate an ache was fantastic.
Maybe you were getting the aches because you were wearing flats? I don't really get those kind of muscle aches in my clipless, and I rode the Great Divide last summer, 2,700 miles (over 4300 km). I'm also 63 years old.
@@erics9214 It could but I dont think so. But you make me very happy, seeing your age I realize I have so many years of cycling left :) thanks!
As quite a new road bike cyclist ( 2 years) female, early sixties, I felt pressure to go for the clipless but have come off several times with them and I'm delighted to hear that there so little advantage and I'm sure that for me the greater confidence that comes from not worrying about getting out of the clips will more than make up for any loss of power.
Flats for me too!
If your clipless pedals are adjusted properly, getting out of them is not a problem. It is likely the tension is set too high. Bike shops are very prone to doing that.
You might think they are setup properly until you sprint and get thrown over the bars, like I did once, because the system weakened over time, damaging the bike and taking me out of action for 3 weeks.
A major plus from not being clipped in is when tackling large hills that turn out to be beyond me- it's impossible to unclip once you're down to a low cadence/speed as you have to maintain pressure to keep the bike moving forward. The only way I've found to be able to stop is to purposely fall into the verge!😂
Nice, makes sense.
Another advantage of flat pedals (metal with grippers) is you can choose normal high quality athletic / running shoes of a zillion different types, all will work with flat pedals.
As a test I did precisely that on the 2022 Oklahoma Freewheel a 6 day / 450 mile cross state ride.
I was also on a fixed gear (Single Speed) road bike.
NO Problems !
My Nike Winflow 8 shoes were supremely comfortable & shoe pedal connection, perfect.
After each days 55 mile (avg) length, no foot pain.
Plus, no need to hobble around on cycling shoe cleats to find your "normal shoes" lol.
Thank you so much for this great video! I have used clipless pedals for years but at some point didn't like them anymore. Today I enjoy riding greatly with flat pedals.
As a beginner cyclist, I've been exploring both flats and clipless. What I've realized is that even though I prefer flats, practicing with clipless helps my overall position on flats. After training with clipless, I feel my feet "glued" to the flat pedals and more stable. I'll definitely keep training with clipless aiming at more efficiency on flats.
First of all BIG THANKS GCN for listening to your viewers, that was a massive improvement in the test. Next you may invite Blake Samson since he is get used to both systems. not been get used to flat pedals might restrict some performance.
I'm sure we'd be able to get him on board!
@@gcn thanks a lot for listening to ur audience!
This confirms what I thought it would. The difference is in the sprint and for 99% of riders, that's not really relevant. I suspect the differences on the non sprint categories would quickly become statistically insignificant if Connor were to practice on flats for a couple of months.
I guess that depends on the person. On step climbs, I do pull up. It helps a lot! When I ride my commuter, I have to remind myself constantly to not pull up because I'll constantly pull my feet off of the pedals.
+1. Swapping anything big takes some adjustment time. Maybe they should take someone from GMBN and do a back-to-back comparison to see if this is mostly from being unfamiliar vs. actual performance difference.
Relying on feeling is also very dangerous. A while back a proper blind test of nylon vs carbon soled shoes showed zero difference in actual performance, while most folks seem to think it is a really clear advantage they can feel (perhaps mostly in their wallet being lighter for the climb?).
We’ve learnt literally nothing at all.
@@pszemysuaf as with a lot of things in cycling, there is more gut feel and dogma around pedals than proper data. So many things you get told that are supposedly super important fail to show up in testing (or are contradicted). Sadly it very rarely changes anyone’s mind, and you’ll here them repeated over and over (often by the GCN crew) without basis, or in the face of contradictory evidence.
99.9% if you include commuters
Would definitely like to see this on longer rides. As an endurance rider mainly, I am curious if being in the saddle for 4+ hours in a day makes a difference in not just speed but overall fatigue of the muscles.
Yes flats are WAY better. Clipless ARE better for higher cadence and sprinting for sure if you're going all out then yes it's harder to grip and you lose a bit of power as well as the whole setup is generally a little lighter but if you're not a pro or tour de Francing and all that jazz once you factor the benefit of not falling all the time on flats it's a no brainer. I did many ultra centuries with flats including 160 mile ride w/ 13k climb around lake Garda in Italy and on a cheap gravel bike mind you. Flats are better for endurance because you can change your foot position slightly when you get tired, impossible w/ clipless which I found MORE tiring for that reason. Aside from losing a little sprint power the flats are just as good but so much safer and lower maintenance I never looked back and gave away my pedals and shoes after trying clipless for 6 months. There's absolutely no reason to "connect yourself to the bike" because you can't instantly put both feet on the ground to bail out as easily which resulted in too many falls especially in the city or bike paths or places with uncertain environments etc. I don't miss the extra 0.0000001% power.
I would agree.
Doubt it. I go between SPD on a drop bar bike and flats on a Brompton. The Brompton is slower but it's not my feet that hurt or are tired after the same distance on either bike.
Great effort and vid guys. The findings are consistent with my own. Settings with less sprinting or climbing, flat pedals are very much a low-fuss alternative. The more power you want/need to apply though the greater the advantage of clipless. I find that especially noticeable on my singlespeed, where I've tried both and couldn't actually tackle and incline using the flats that was absolutely doable with (in this case) SPDs. Side note - I've seen some pretty nasty gashes inflicted by those pins. Something goes wrong and they can really shred your skin. That's worth keeping in mind too, especially if it's an otherwise close decision between flat or clipless.
Great test guys. I switched from clipless to flats on my road bike around a year ago after enduring far too many stressful unclipping issues. Did a 136 mile ride recently on my flats happily and completely stress free. Never going back to clipless!
Nice one! Glad to hear that you've found the best setup for your riding
Agreed! Virtually every hairy moment I’ve had was attributable to clipless pedals. Happy, secure snd safer on flats.
This is such a common complaint about clipless. Have you adjusted the tension on your clipless pedals? I keep mine set at close to the lowest tension, nearly never accidentally release, and yet come right out when I want to, even in emergency stops.
@@erics9214 I think it's a pointless debate (unless you sell clipless stuff, obviously). People like what they like... and what they like even more than what they like is a universal confirmation (ideally from many people that like what they like) that what they like is the right thing to like. Confirmation bias at its best.
Me, personally, I would not ride bicycles the way I do/the amount of time I do without clipless pedals and nice clipless cycling shoes. Not sure why would anyone, for instance, buy a several thousand bucks worth of bike and ride it on flats. Like buying a Ferrari and driving it to the nearest shopping mall.
@@jooohan Agree all around. Just bothered by the belief that the GCN and some other tests promote that there is little difference in performance. The tests look flawed to me and don't align with my many years of cycling experience, starting way back in the toe clips days.
I laugh about the folks complaining about the difficulty of getting out of clipless pedals. You haven't lived until you've done that helpless, slow motion fall as you realize you forgot to loosen the straps on your toe clips. :)
Last summer, I switched to flats after more than 30 years. Perfect for me.
Nice! Always best to go with what works for you
I switched a few years back due to a cranky knee that hates the unclipping twist motion. With good pedals and some adjustment time I don't believe I am suffering any detriment.
@@123moof Word!
I'm gonna repeat this over few video.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, for switching chasing motorbike to electric!
I've been nagging about it for over a year.
That's a great improvement for sound. Way to go, guys!
Interesting video. I do use flat pedals from the beginning and I was convinced I had a performance penalty which is not the case as I see here: on long distance I never experienced fatigue from that. Overall flat pedals compared to my bike buddies who use clipless have saved me from one stupid fall every two years and potentially of knee problems as I let my feet adjust intuitively (I have some serious issues with one of them).
Finaly, some justice to flat pedals.
Clipless are better😂😂😂 u think flats are
I believe clipless pedals or toe clips help beginner cyclists train there legs to spin in circles
@@richardwallace133As opposed to spinning another way? There really no choice but to spin in circles.
both are good, i use clipcless cuz 20% of the time i wheelie or stand up and ride, i might go at an angle which sometimes slips my shoe
I’ve been cycling for 5 years either way
Definitely all about flats. Love it when you get people tell you to get clipless and that you'll be faster while you're out pacing them lol. Can wear whatever shoes I want, infinite adjustability and can walk normally when I get off the bike. Unless you're an elite racer for me there is just no point using clipless
Totally agree. I ride over 10,000 miles a year on flat pedals and have never had a problem.
Exactly! The real issue is "racing". 99% of people don't race, yet almost everything in the bike industry is designed around for and by racing. It makes no sense. Even Gravel which started as really a grassroots revolt against road cycling has become everything it stood against. It's like you can't just ride a bike as an adult unless it's tied to racing or fitness.
What a dumb thing to say with such confidence
@@Bikes0420 what do you mean?
You don't have to be an elite racer to benefit from clipless pedals/shoes. Depending how and where you're riding. When I get out of town for a ride, I usually don't dismount for several hours (anything between 50-100km). I find constantly adjusting my feet on flats tiresome and waste of energy...plus you can't efficiently "sweep" on flats - i.e. sweep backwards at the bottom of the stroke. So there's at least two points to use clipless even if you're not an elite racer.
I switched from clipless to flats on my mountain bike 11 years ago and on my gravel/road bike 4 years ago. Most flat pedals have a slightly concave profile. I use pedals with a slightly convex profile (Canfields) and I love them. I get a smoother cadence. I also use a quality carbon insert in my 510 shoes, so that grippy soul remains stiff throughout the life of the shoe. The shoes are the only shoe I need to bring on a bike touring vacation!
Interesting result! Many many thanks for this. Been clipless all d time, now doing gravel and long ride and relax, will try flat pedal now.
SPDs are the answer. One can also opt for one-sided SPDs for enhanced variety of shoes.
100%. I got one-sided SPDs last summer and I love it.
I swear by my Shimano PD-M324 pedals. They just work.
Yes. Please do a test - road clipless vs. SPD one-sided road pedals (Shimano ES600). I'm guessing there won't be much difference in speed/power. But you don't walk like a duck in the SPDs.
That's the one. One sided pedals also allow you to ride through built up areas with one, or both, feet unclipped ready for the emergencies. I found that invaluable when I was gaining confidence in my clipless system. And I still do it to this day when piloting my tandem.
Love SPDs but - also love road cleats. There’s not much in it for me but i like the security clipless pedals give over flats
Good test and I fully believe that there is no advantage for me to use clipless pedals. I had a fall in the summer and broke my hip due to not un-clipping in time to save myself. I now use flat pedals and after 25 years of using clipless, I was surprised that my average speeds have not reduced.
The New Boy (an elderly gentleman compared to the rest of us) suffered a broken hip falling over at traffic lights on the way home when he was clipped in. To be fair, during his recovery, he dislocated his hip again on the exercise bike without clips, but for me, there are too many traffic lights and pubs in this world to clamp my feet to my pedals.
That's great to hear. Glad you're still riding and finding it easier with flats!
My chain snapped whilst using clipless and I went over the handlebars as I lost balance and couldn't free a foot in time to save myself. Landed on my head and then pancaked onto my back, cracking some ribs. Completely lost confidence in clipless since and swapped to a pair of the flat pedals in the video. Was booked to do the London to Brighton about 6 weeks after the accident and ended up doing it on flats, non-stop from A to B. Did the entire route in 4hrs and made it up Ditching without an issue. That was in a pair of running shoes, too! Wouldn't have done any better with clipless, I'm certain. When the weather improves i'll buy a decent pair of MTB shoes and use them all year. Running clipless just doesn't make any sense to me any more.
@matt Russell, at least you broke the fall with your head :)
Thank you for a good test and video. I use flat pedals and I've felt a pressure to start with clips from my cool bike friends, like many others. But now I can stick with the flats with confidence. For me the heaviest reason is that I don't like being stuck to the bike, for safety reasons. There is however an advantage with clips that I haven't seen in the video or the comments. It's that clips will give you a more allrounded training. With flats you're just pushing down. In the long run it will give you muscular imbalance, and it can cause pain and injury. With the clips you're also pressing up, and thus gaining the antagonist muscle training. But getting the antagonist training can rather easily be done with rubber bands and other exercises. It will cost a bit more time, but antagonist training doesn't need a lot of effort.
Cheers!
Back in 1987 when I was riding a lot, I was using Bata touring shoes with flat pedals and averaged about 13 mph over 50 miles. I switched to toe clips and gained about half mile an hour. I then switched to Shimano shoes and Look clipless pedals. I immediately started averaging 15 mph over 50 miles. Same bike, same roads and the clipless pedals gained me two miles and hour.
Dont you think you became stronger over time as well.
2 over 13 is quite a lot. It already means huge difference by itself, but even more considering that on that speed (I know it's an average, but still) the rider is not trying to output a high rpm pace.
I'm glad you guys redid the test with a more equal playing field (instead of using beat up sneakers and the cheapest flat pedals). Good job listening to people who actually do like flat pedals.
Perhaps another test is let a person use the flat setup for a weeks or a month and give his true opinion. It always seems like he's clipless for 20 years and flats for 20 minutes and then says clipless is more comfortable haha
Thanks for commenting James! Great to hear from someone that loves flats. Would you like to see us stick Conor on flats for a month or so and see how he gets on? 👀
@@gcn That would be really interesting to see, IMO
BTW thanks for the video!
But who actually buys specific stiff-soled flat pedal cycling shoes?
@@zodgzod I did - think a lot of flat riders just buy a pair of MTB shoes like me.
@@zodgzod Well, most flat pedal specific shoes these days are stiff soled, so you dont really have a choice when it comes to sole stiffness. This is probably due to a flawed logic where people think that clipless shoes are the fastest, and they have stiff soles, so therefore flat pedal shoes also must have stiff soles to be fast. In reality however, its often the other way around, but nobody wants to hear this, and the manufacturers continue to compete with each other to see who can make the softest rubber compound with the stiffest soles... Btw: the extremely soft rubber you need to have good grip on the pedals with stiff soles doesn't lend itself very well to bonding, and this is why a lot of flat pedal shoes fall apart in less than a year.
Great to see this. As a mountain biker riding flats I’ve wondered a lot about this. I can keep up with friends on clips and have saved myself more than once on a sketchy downhill.
Watch a few Friday Fails and you see a lot of crashes caused by feet slipping off the pedals. Not that clipless are the solution for everyone, but I'm so much more secure on the bike with clipless. And for me, "keeping up" on a sketchy downhill has nothing to do with pedal choice, but skillset behind the bars.
You will be surprised how easy it is to clip out of the pedals and how your body doing this automatically if you are in a tricky situation. I actually prefer be clipped in on a bumpy trail as i have confidence that my feet will stay on pedals and not jump off them. Regarding keeping up with ppl - i suck behind any group riding any kind of pedals so it's not about what pedals you or theya are riding. It's about skill, confidence, experience and power
@@pilkjaer I agree. I wasn't totally clear in my reply. I see people slipping off of flat pedals all the time in videos. Clipless prevent much of this happening.
And yes, once you develop the release muscle-memory, it's automatic. I enjoy technical riding and trials in clipless pedals. Haven't had an issue in well over a decade.
However, some people will forever be "freaked out" by clipless, and if they negatively affect the experience that much, then it isn't worth it.
@@brabrabarabra5027 interesting. I don’t have crashes due to losing contact with my flats but I’ve definitely saved myself by kicking my leg out. On the flip side there’s at least a few rides each year that I’m on with friends on clipless falling over due to not clipping out on some steep terrain. Not scientific but enough of a sample size for me.
@@zed5129 not really. Going over the bars and breaking your neck has NOTHING to do with clipless pedals. And again, Friday Fails shows clearly how people with flats can do it perfectly well without clipless!
Clipless pedals were designed for safety. Pro riders were crashing and sustaining serious injury with double straps, toe clips & cleated shoes, their feet would NOT come out of the pedals. Look took their ski binding idea to bikes. 100% pedal security, but with quick-release safety. The BEST of both worlds.
Plus, tipping over won't put you in a wheelchair. It might break your wrist, arm and/or shoulder. You'd have to try REAL hard to land on your head falling sideways.
And riding technical, exposed single track (Downieville, Portal Trail) exposes you to this eventuality regardless of what pedals you're using.
My winter bike is a relatively quick one, but because I also use it for short trips around town and for my 10-minute commute to work in an urban environment, I swap clipless and flat pedals quite often. My experience is that flat pedals make almost no difference on longer steady efforts because body and foot position don't change and you are not putting maximum power through the pedals. Where they do make a difference is on climbs riding out of the saddle and sprints where the whole body is moving much more relative to the bike. Pulling up on the way up through the pedal stroke might not contribute to more power output through the same pedal, but the security of having your foot in place for the next pedal stroke is invaluable, also being more like a vantage point to help you push down harder on the other side.
Biomechanically speaking, your experience is very close to what a model could predict.
Aren't there pedals flat on one side and clip on the other?
I'm not into performance cycling since ages, but I can remember how my foot "lost" the pedal in fast curves on rough roads, that's when I added straps to my flats, and also how my legs sometimes wanted to "reel" instead of only pushing down, and that even while sitting on the saddle...
This was brilliant! .. That last one was a massive bunch of confirmation bias, with this you fully redeemed yourselves, well done! .. And this confirmed my own decision to stick with flats.. Some background, I'm a Downhill MTBer, but i have a road bike which i use for commuting mostly & the odd hill mission (350m climb/decent), but since doing my left PCL in a mtb crash 4 months ago (2 mths wrong diagnosis), I've been fully getting into road biking on the regular, as part of my rehab, about 100km a week or more, with the odd 45km ride up & around the hills (I'm in NZ, there's hills everywhere haha!). So i just bought a new (2nd hand but mostly unused) full carbon frame bike for an absolute bargain price off a bloke who's switched to an ebike.. And it got me thinking if maybe flats are sacrilege on such a beautiful Italian made carbon frame.. But reading that the efficiency difference is minimal, & then seeing this has confirmed my decision..
I love the safety of flats, & would have injured more than my PCL if id been clipped in for my mtb crash, & i love the fact that my mtb shoes not only stick to the pins really well, but they are actually my most comfortable shoes besides my running shoes, & i don't sound like a dork going clickety clack when getting a post ride coffee or beer either.. I'll also add, although I've just bought an Italian carbon frame bike with Campagnolo groupset, I'm still a mountain biker riding a road bike, I aint ever going to wear lycra haha! It's Mons Merino mtb top & swimming shorts for me, same as i ride when mtb. (If you haven't heard of Mons, get into it, its amazing gear, looks cool, & breathes well). In terms of pedalling power, the biggest difference for me has been the exercises i need to do for PCL rehab. Strength conditioning has given me more power to get up the hills than any clipless shoe ever would have i feel.. Get a bosu ball & do one legged squats, then a medicine ball & do 60 more, & lunges & such, & work on your core.. & see your power increase bigtime..
Bottomline, if you need to do sprints all the time for some weird reason, consider clipless. In any other situation, choose whatever you find the most fun, because there's no measurable difference.
And of course if you have to get off the bike, the flats will win hands down.
@@innocentiuslacrim2290 Well, I think pros use them for the same reason some people use a McDonald`s uniform or Santa Claus outfit - they get paid to.
On long, steep climbs clipless is vastly superior too
@@DaveCM I find that I'm faster pushing the bike on long steep climbs 😂
Touring and commuting its flats for me. For rides where a secure connection with pedals is what I like (road, single track mtb) then clipless work for me. Best of both worlds!
Great effort guys! Its worth mentioning that 1. Saddle needs to be lowered slightly on the flat pedals to account for the difference in stack height. 2. Positioning the foot further forward over the spindle (mid foot position) on the flat pedals will relieve the stress on the calf muscles during long steady state efforts. Resulting in lower heartrate for the same power.
Thats true... Mid foot position.. also relief pain on my knee when i pushing hard on flat pedal....
The bigger the pedal.. the better itself for the power transfer...
In my own opinion...
Thanks, that's helpful.
Thanks for this. Gonna see if i need to make any micro adjustments.
@@robertusmaharyady2810 i ll have to try that myslelf , I have never fallen for the clipless is better con neither
spot on, I have to drop my saddle about 3-to-5mm when riding with flat pedals as compared with clipless
Great Video!
FWIW back in the day - before clipless - I rode with toe clips and shoe plates for touring and TTs - deeper plates for TTs. To release it was necessary to loosen the toe strap slightly - or risk kissing the tarmac! When clipless pedals came out I couldn't believe the improvement - same security on the bike and releasing is a piece of cake. When I had kids I fitted a kiddy seat and subsequently a trailer bike and no problems with SPD at all. I haven't TTed now for many years , and kids all grown up but I still ride SPDs on road bike and MTB. Very occasionally I've borrowed a bike with flat pedals - and clattered my shins something wicked when my foot slipped off the pedal!
Summary - clipless take a while to get used to but really are the biz. That said, use whatever you're most comfortable with is the best take home!
PS - why are they called clipless when it's a clip system?
Thanks for the vid. I already knew this but everyone in the bike fitting industry kept telling me to go clipless and that i'm apparently losing "alot of power" by staying on flats. This just helps to confirm the load of bullshit.
I think it makes sense for clipless if the left and right cranks are individual separate units. but the current system is such that pushing on one side lifts the other side of the crank. Why do i need clipless to pull up when i can push down on my opp leg? If anything, your quads and glutes combo generate more power than your hams. So if you're focusing on pulling up rather than thinking about pushing down the cranks on the other side, you only stand to lose more power. You can still engage your hamstrings while on flats pedals, but the idea is to lift your leg up fast enough to not let the weight of it slow down the cranks from coming back up.
This video helped alleviate some FOMO I've had about sticking with flat pedals vs trying clipless. Now based on these results, and knowing how I like to ride, I am confident that if I do an upgrade I would be better served with these grippy flat pedals and stiff shoes vs going clipless.
i would nt be all that bothered what shoes you wear, any differences will be utterly minimal .Only if you are enetering Time Trial events would you be interesed in saving millisecs . You will lose more time dodging UK s potholes or fighting a stiff breeze
my 5.10s feel like sneakers... til i ride my bike with sneakers!@@slavelaboringkid7597
100%
I like both and use both. Keep one road bike with clipless and one with flats and have found little difference on my rides other than I like the secure feeling of being "locked in" with clipless. Other hand, the pins on my flats are so good and in combo with flat pedal shoes, my feet don't slide at all but that also makes it a little tougher to adjust when I want to.
In the real world where everything is not sacrificed at the altar of "speed" the flats win every time for me. And all that money I am not spending on fancy shoes or pedals can be spent in the café.....
I have always used SPD pedals on all my bikes. No problems walking in them, easy to clip in. how about a test using them.
Yes. No need for a test, we will find SPDs are just the same as road clipless (and therefore the same as flats). Just ride what you like :0
Same for me SPD on road and mountain and commuter. We commuter has flat on one side and spd on the other 😂❤
The problem I have with SPD's is they tend to squeak during longer rides since it's metal on metal, no matter how I spray it with whatever. Around town it's ok and love the recessed bit on MTB shoes for easy walking.
@@jooohan think your squeak is coming from somewhere else, have used SPD's on 2 bikes year round for a decade and never heard a sound...
@@PRH123 So if the squeak is coming from under my feet which are in the shoes clipped into the pedals and the sound occurs every time I push down...where can that sound come from, I wonder. Squeaky tarmac?
As someone that runs Clipss on my road bike, and flats on my BMX race bike, I've seen the similarities for years.
I'm restricted to flats in Novice class.
A good set of pedals (I use Pedaling Industries flats) and shoes make a huge difference.
I'm really glad to see this was a real test, and not just phoned in.
I bet it could be even closer if Connor felt that bit more comfortable/ confident on flats!
Thanks to both for a great video!!!
Ive always used clipless since Shimano first brought out spds in the late 80s. But a few years ago I made a conscious effort to learn to ride a mountain bike with flats. Sinec I turned 50, 5 years ago, Ive been suffering more and more with foot cramps on 2h + rides, occasionally on really hot days and long rides Ive had to get off my bike an massage my feet because of the pain - these are with clipless shoesthat Ive been fine with for many years prior, same bike and setup. I think its just age making my body more sensitive to things. For the last year or so Ive been doing commutes and also longer rides on flat pedals, and 510 shoes. Average commute is 1h40 - 39km; longest ride was a 8h gravel cruise of 150km. The comfort and lack of fatigue riding flats with nice comfortable shoes that arnt too stiff seems to make all the difference, foot pain is very rare. I would totally agree when total max power is required and you do pull up a bit, then nothing will beat clipless. But for most other situations the differences are very small, especially if you have been riding for years and have a nice fluid pedal stroke. Clipless helps you keep your foot in the same place and I think contributes to help build muscle memory to develop a good pedaling style. I still ride clipless when racing but ride a lot with flat pedals: road, grave and mtb with flats
I have rode pedals with ciips but, did not tighten the straps for safty reasons for many years. I mostly do touring rides. I use clips so my foot doesn't slip off the pedals. Great Job! Funny and informative. My biggest fear of riding clipless pedals is riding up a steep hill and not being able to unclip in time and crashing.
I've ridden with straps not done up too and clipless is easier to extricate your foot from. You simply move your heel first rather than the ball and you unclip instantly, takes an hour to get used to and it's safe as houses.
One perspective you guys should note is the value of this information for people doing casual rides. Like, for example, you don't care so much about max power if you're on a bicycle tour. What you do care about a bit more is all-day comfort and the ability to walk around in your shoes.
I use toe straps and still can pretty well wear any type of footwear except for steel toe boots and wellies .
I fear the new W/D +gcn corporate plan is most videos need to have extra money spending featured.
PS. I think I'm kinda getting burnt out hanging out w Hank and by default,,, maybe Conner too (but i do appreciate his jersey sleeve w stripes!)
I d say 98 % of cyclists could nt give a monkeys about MAX POWER rubbish..No one ever needs to be locked in to the pedals except pro sprinters in the last 500 metres , and I ve seen Cavendish lose badly when a foot disengaged from the pedal
@@kookamunga2458 You don t need toe straps at all neither
You just saved me from buying clipless shoes and pedals, saved me loads of money. Thanks!
Thanks, glad you found the video useful!
just be sure to buy good flat pedals. I had some stock flat pedals and they gave me pain in my feet. Then I upgraded to a better quality flat pedals and it's MUCH better. No more pain.
There is a huge difference between them when riding on a bumpy road. Especially on MTB. Knowing that you have pedals in place and they are not going anywhere is a huge advantage. Also, you will have your feet in the same and optimal position every time. It takes a while though to dial them in and getting used to clipping in and out of them. I personally have both depending on what bike and what terrain I'm riding.
I've been using clipless for about 1.5 years now, fairly often and only just recently have I been able to find the muscle memory to clip with ease every time especially at traffic lights. I was almost considering going back to normal pedals but found a new way to work without the need to dismount at lights. I'll keep the clipless now because I do like them for going up hill where I can use the hamstrings to help out the quads but having to take an extra pair of shoes to work just taking up space in my bag for barely any gain is making me question things again. I've never come off my bike before but had once close call at my front door when I failed to unclip. That was early days though.
Thumbs up. I enjoyed this test. As a guy who recently used flat pedals for road cycling during my leg rehabilitation period in 2022, but was on clipless pedals for many years beforehand. I could relate to this test much more. ...I would like to see if it would really affect overall results in metrics for something longer like a 40 Kilometer.
You need to do this again with someone who been using flats for 20 years.
Lots of people want to see this test... we'll see what we can do 👀
@@gcn I am looking forward to that!
This is a better test than GCN’s previous attempts, but I still think more could be done to prevent bias to one pedal over the other.
Just riding flats for the test only when being used to clipless will feel strange and will most likely affect power output as Connor will feel more natural on clipless.
Maybe carry out the test with a few riders who have experience with both types (the GMBN guys). Also it might be good to do a test on flat vs clipless for gravel.
Good points! GMBN did a video a year ago on the same subject for MTB 👉 czcams.com/video/5eQ3WCBf38M/video.html but yes, a gravel comparison would be a good idea!
@@gcn thanks, however I wasn’t referring to MTB tests. I mean get the likes of Neil, Rich and Blake to join you guys on GCN for a video to get a more even spread of results on the road. Those guys are used to both pedal styles 👍
After 30 years of cramming my feet into clipless and buckling them tight, I’m now trying to find more comfort while continuing to road bike - great to see flats may be as powerful, or close, and I’d like that mobility of flats - I’m going to try it! Thanks for the vids!
Great video, i did not expect those results. I was told that clipless help with the bone and muscle alignement in the leg, which is why they are better for you.
Flat pedals are also much better for climbing, especially when you push the bike uphill.
Or, "Taking my bike for a walk" as I like to call it.
And walk to the cake shop and back again ? That bit always gets edited out ?
Yeah they should be called hill pedals not flat pedals!
@@donbarnard82 +1 definitely!
thats really interesting I would have thought flats would be less efficient.
When I train or commute, I always use flats and basic running shoes. It's a way to help with strengthening my foot - instead of having the shoe be the support, I have to use my own foot to do it. Keeps my feet strong and self-supporitive. Same concept as saving your carbon bike for race days and using your heavy, steel bike for training. Same with flats/running shoe vs. clipless/cycle shoe.
working shoes work great too as they are stiff, comfortable, wind and waterproof and durable. and A LOT cheaper.
Nice training hack! Does it feel weird when you come back to clipless? 👀
@@gcn Not at all, just a few seconds of readjustment to sensation. As long as your geometry on the commuter is set up to match the geometry on the race bike, you don't notice much. Thanks for your interest!
These are all great tests. Mountain biking brings more variables to the situation as well depending on the style of riding and type of terrain you're riding.
Used to use clipless but then switched to flat pedals and mountain bike shoes on my roadbike. Feels great👍
Flat much better. More comfortable and safer. A while ago I did an experiment cycling to work which involves a reasonable hill. Used both. No time difference. Use the flat pedals in the video. They are superb.
So what you did was, push harder on the flats...
Clipless are far superior.
Flats you cannot use half the stroke of each pedal stroke for starters....
If anyone tests flats vs clipless and flats come close, its not tested properly.
Comfortable I'll give you, Safer? You don't see legs getting destroyed by clipless like you do with flat pedal pins.
@@karl8805 Every single fair test shows clipless and flats as extremely close. Power on the upstroke (perhaps outside of full out of the saddle sprinting) is a myth. This has been shown multiple times.
@@kazaroth its not a myth...
Shown by many studies studies in fact i have partaken in.
Up stroke is a major factor in performance.
And it stop fatigue due to using many more muscles, not just quads and glutes.
@@karl8805 Being stuck in fixed position that is sub-optimal is more likely to cause injury. A flat pedal allows self-selected positioning, much like being able to change hand placement on a drop handlebar. Lachlan Morton started to have knee issues on his tour around France and went to flat to alleviate his pain.
Done tri's and Ironman's in clipless for the last two years. Hadn't ridden a bike in 20 years before that and never 'locked in'. I hate clipping in and worrying about not clipping out correctly/fast enough, particularly around traffic. It causes me to do too much training on the stationary. I think this has me convinced to go to flats! I thought I HAD to do clippless since everyone else seems to. Thank you for this vid GCN! And thanks to the comments below adding more information!
I love flats, I've been riding for years and have progressively been moving away from clipless to flats on my Gravel bike, Mountain bike and I'm now thinking of doing it on my road bike. I like being able to adjust the position of my feet over long 6 hour rides. For me clipless has lead to numerous bike fits and flare up with injuries even after multiple bike fits. With flats I just don't get injuries.
Not sure what the power measurements were telling us (given the time similarities) - possibly that Conor felt more comfortable using the pedals which he's used for many years. It did show how easy it is to switch to flat pedals, and without any significant loss in speed. For non-racers like me, the flat pedals are a no-brainer!
Love it. I’m pleased to see these results. Thanks for correcting your previous vid that almost felt like you were purposefully trying to make flats look rubbish. I don’t race (I just do recreational riding and commuting), but use (decent) flats with toe-straps on my road bike. Granted my toe straps aren’t super tight, but they help stop my feet from moving around. Be interesting to see toe clips and straps make any difference. My guess is they’ll bring the possible max power close to what you can get on clipless. I do have a set of clipless and have tried them on a few sportives, but was never convinced of the benefits to me. I’m sure, if you race,the max power benefit is there.
I have flats with ynot straps and I really like them.
Most of the key advantages of flats with some of the advantages of being strapped in.
Of course, not race worthy, but great for long distance touring!
By adding toe clips (open clips without straps e.g. MKS) you will get a more secure hold on the pedals and still maintain ease of use. I am using astroturf football shoes (addidas) for riding on the flats, they have a hard solid and stiff sole and allow good power transfer.
@@robertrjm8115 yes, I use the MKS clip too, but with a fairly loose strap. I can believe your method may be correct. As they showed in the video, it’s a bit of a myth about the upstroke being important, The purpose of the clip is just to guide your foot into the correct position on the pedal and prevent it from moving too much.
This seems to be quite a common request. Something we can look at in the future perhaps!
I'm off on a 2 week tour of Brittany in July and was thinking about digging out my spd shoes as the pedals on my tourer are double sided flat/spd but after watching this i might just stick to the flat side and save myself having to take a pair of trainers for off the bike.
Riding the other day I took a corner into a dip and my inside foot came off the pedal so I concluded there is a safety element to being clipped in and also grinding up steep hills I imagine it's useful to have the ability to pull up on the pedals.
Useful and interesting vid 👍
After 20 years using clipless pedals I've gone back to toe-clip pedals and feel far more relaxed, especially in town centres and built-up areas where the need to stop unexpectedly occurs often. On my touring bike I have the best of both worlds with duel pedals (clip-on one side for the open road - flat on the other for built-up areas).
I really don’t have a preference over the other. I have to admit, I do get the odd stare if I put flat pedals on a road/racey bike. The benefit of clip-less is ur not worrying about your pedals when putting down. My foot also doesn’t get thrown off position if I go over a bump at speed. Proper flat pedal technique/ practice is important. At the end of the day, it’s whatever you are used to. I still would’t go SPD-SL or any other roadie clipless standard. I like to be able to walk normally with my cycling shoes, and not have to bring another pair for walking.
As an avid flat pedal rider, it's so nice to see a proper fair comparison for once!
I'm really glad to see I don't necessarily need to go clipless to get the best out of myself :) I really should get better stiffer shoes though like they used here
Absolutely. If you're happy with what you're using then there's no reason to change!
Cycling in Finland during the winter: clipless (SPD dual sided pedals) keep me glued to the pedals when the tires lose grip with snowpack or ice. Keeps me from wiping out or falling off the bike. Priceless.
P.S. My tires have studs.
The higher heart rate is explainable by being the second effort and more fatigue playing in.
But what is really interesting are the lower watts numbers and same time in Flats. If that is not some kind of measurement error as it could easily be measuring different with flats vs clipless it would be so huge that road cyclist should try flats on road bikes.
Would mean the surface area for power translation is bigger on flats.
Also in the tour the de france as it would give your small muscles that are always strained the same way a pause and other and more muscles would be used. The power would be distributed to more muscles in a 3 week event instead of only to one group.
Ex Pro rider Paul Voss chnages his shoes and Cleats last minute from Road cleats to Mtb cleats and shoes and at 3/4 of the race he had to pull out because his calves closed down because the position was so different that he was not used to it.
Interesting video thanks. I use SPDs, I find them the best clipless option for me, and as the cleats are recessed into the shoe, it makes it so much easier when walking, especially out on longer rides with a few stops. Also completely interchangeable with my mountain bikes, so a versatile option. Also when I've used flats just for general training and fitness rides, have had no problems at all, so do mix it up from time to time.
When I started road riding more than 20 years ago, most people started out on 2-sided MTB spd pedals, it was a way of easing into clipless. I love them. I rode one-sided Time and one-sided road pedals for a few years but hated not having a dual-sided option. Unclipping was never a problem, it was getting clipped in for me. So I eventually switched to speedplays. Fantastic system. When I get my MTB later this year I may start out with mountain-specific flat pedals like these until I get more confident in off-road riding. This video has great information!
That's surely the point. AND....SPD's are much more sensible in traffic when you are stopping and starting all the time. Most if us spend quite a bit in town before the more open country roads.
Yep SPDs are my favourite too. 😊
Yep SPD EH500 pedals on my gravel bike - the versatile combination.
Sounds like the perfect setup!
Yes, it would be interesting to see an experiment with a biker that doesn't have years of experience of riding in clipless pedals and hence not accustomed to circular pedalling technique. All comparisons I saw were made with riders who had many years of experience and correct pedalling technique they had acquired during those years riding in clipless pedals.
Riding seriously (long day trips or overnighters) for three years now and using basic flat pedals (no spikes), I have been thinking I definitely need to get clipless to improve my rides in both time and enjoyment. I lose quite a bit of energy in re-positioning my feet on almost every revolution. Before watching the video, my vote was for clipless outperforming the flats by a large margin. Surprised and well-informed by the results of your experiments. Thanks! Looks like I might upgrade to some spiked pedals.
I just started biking again after 15 years for my commute and exercise, and I was reading up on pedals. A lot of people recommended reading the "Flat Pedal Manifesto". I knew I wasn't going to go clipless any time soon, but after reading that, it planted me pretty firmly into the flats camp.
Brian Lopes raced on flats in the dual-slalom and four-cross, winning four UCI World Championship titles and six World Cup titles. Brian racked up a total of 26 World Cup wins, including the first Cross-Country Eliminator race in 2012.
I think one of the biggest differences is that clipless allows you to pedal harder and at a faster cadence, you won't worry that you might slip when you are climbing or sprinting.
Very true! Especially when the weather is a little wet, being clipped in offers great assurance. 🙌
Chris Super Spinner Froome
@@gcn And that's the beauty of good old Toe Clips in which you don't tighten the straps. You can move your feet around for comfort, but they also prevent accidental foot slipping off the pedals. Toe Clips without straps tightened really are the best of both worlds. It would have been interesting to have included Top Clips without straps tightened in the analysis.
@@wd8dsb no it’s not because if you drop the toe clip you risk getting struck on the road when it falls down and it a pain to get back up again.
Correction, the pedals don't allow you to pedal faster or harder, you do. The pedals have nothing to do with it. You brain is telling you that you are safer on one vs the other and thus you push harder. Scientifically it's no different than if you believed a magic trinket would keep you safe. you would push harder with the magic trinket than you would without it.
Just like I imagined. The main argument for riding clipped in is, well, to be clipped in. Being so comes in handy when ridig gnarly stuff off road or doing max effort on tarmac. As I primarily bikepack, I do no such thing and is perfectly happy on my flats :)
great video!
When I was commuting 15km each way daily, including many hills, I used clipless pedals after cycling many years without them. After an adjustment period, I fell over at a stop once trying to put my foot down and forgetting that I was clipped in, I found that I much preferred the clipped in feel. It really makes a difference for sprints or uphill because you can pull up as well as push down. For long distances it probably doesn't make as much of a difference but I still prefer being clipped in. Once I got the feel of it, I felt much more maneuverable in traffic as well as being more efficient in pedalling. So I don't think it's really needed for occasional or recreational riders but for people who want every last percentage of performance I think they help.
Biggest impact for flat pedals seems to be ultra distance events (16+ hours per day, multiple days). Even Laughlin Morton switched to flats on alt de tour.
I'm not sure we can endorse riding around France in Crocs though 😉
especially when you count in you have to walk through a large super market, say 1 kilometer because of ... things
@@gcn Agree. Just say NO to crocs....period...
@@joeshmoe7967 The most common reason for scratches at PBP (cf 2007 reports) are wet and swollen feet as cycling shoes dont dry out. Crocs or Teva are dry in minutes, change socks and check. Crocs need Ergon pedals for support, though.
Great episode and what I was hoping for really. I dislocated my elbow on my first ride on clipless pedals so I've had a bit of a thing about using them. While recovering I used the clipless on the trainer (can't fall off that one) but I didn't notice a difference in speed when I went back out in flats. My suspicion is that people start cycling in flats, progress to clipless and say "I'm a better rider now" when a lot of the difference is just fitness gains from having an extra 1y or whatever in clipless
Thank you guys - one of the best videos ever. Every time I cycle with normal pedals , others keep telling me to switch to clip less which I had in the past and hated.
So pleased to hear they make little difference unless you’re at Wiggins standard.
I just prefer clipless, esp for mountain biking, because my feet wont slip off the pedals, and/or the pedals wont embed themselves in my shins in an incident. I find clipless more comfortable, I guess.
I cycling two days to work, 14miles there & back. Saturday morning ride with club..over 36 to 40miles. Have done London ride to Essex 100miles,London to Brighton & done 109miles,with flat pedals. I'm happy with it.
I've got a bike with hybrid spd/flat pedals. I always clip in when I have the right shoes on - just feels more secure... which I would think was the reason why cyclists used toe clips in all those years before power meters. Those pedals are very convenient and are probably a good starting point for the nervous or novice clipless rider.
At last a more realistic flat-pedal test. I use spd mountain bike pedals which are flat on one side so I can switch between when circumstances require. I do a lot of multi-day tours and the flat side is great when you need to relax and rest your legs or for riding in urban environments which have a lot of start stops. Remember that Lachlan Morton switched to flats when he got a leg injury on his epic ride that followed the Tour de France route the other year. Flats can be great!
That sounds like the joys of bike touring. Taking it easy and slowing down! Did you catch our budget bikepacking video? 👉czcams.com/video/lJOtCFegc-4/video.html
Most of us have certain routes that we run all the time. If you run them often enough you'll know what's a fast time looks like and what a slow time looks like. Nowadays I run 5-10's and Xpedo pinned flats on every bike I own and there's no discernible difference in the times on the above mentioned routes between flats, clipless or toeclips and straps for that matter. The pins are the key. Your feet simply don't move around.This can't be said for other flat pedal types. Another great benefit is no longer having to walk around like a ruptured penguin while off the bike. I've read James Wilson's so called "Flat Pedal Revolution Manifesto" and he indeed makes a strong case that being connected to the pedals provides no benefit but for me it's irrelevant. I've already proven it to myself. I think the real reason more cyclists don't experiment with flats is because they fear the snickers and fisheyed looks from their Velominati buds if they show up on flats for the Sunday morning club run. After all, everyone "knows"clipless are better and to use anything else means you have goose feathers for brains. Besides that it's a style error much like a sock height violation.🙂
Good ol' rat traps do just as well as pins at holding your shoe in place! Avoid the plastic junk, sure, but IMO the biggest key is just a shoe with a firm rubber sole, not foam. When riding flats I usually just throw on a good ol' pair of chucks.
For cyclists that are paying $$$ trying to shave every gram off their bikes, clipless provide that increment of advantage that your looking for, but for most people, people that might want to say walk in a store to get a drink, put their bike down to sit in the park etc., stiffer low profile shoes(don't need to be special shoes) and aluminum flats are just as good.
The person behind Connor at 10 minutes 30 is loving life and living it large!!
Did you know you can do 10:30 and it'll make a link to that time in the video?
@@ClarkDroneFilms every day is a school day, even on a Saturday.
Thanks for the content.
I just ordered clipless shoes but I might send them back now watching your video.
The only advantage you have is in max power because you cant slip from the pedal makes absolute sense.
So like many others I'll probably stick to regular shoes because of comfort off the bike.
I think having a flat vs clipless test on some bumpy gravel and on a cyclocross course and xc mtb course would be very interesting.
Maybe one for GMBN? 👀
@@gcn czcams.com/video/5eQ3WCBf38M/video.html
I've found that grippy pinned flats with soft but stiff-soled shoes enable me to add some pedal power between 5 and 7 o'clock, by pulling back at the end of the downstroke.
And I think I can also start the downstroke at just after 12 thanks to the hi grip ( as with cleats). The pull-back part of the stroke uses different muscles, that need both developing and the rider's intention to use them - so that's just as for cleats, but without being able to actually pull up between 7 and 12. So pedalling technique can make up some of the efficiency gap.
My shoes are actually cheap canvas summer shoes, but the sole is a fine uniform lattice that fits snugly around the pedal pins.
I have other reasons for preferring flats: I need the variation in position for my legs and feet that are 71 yo, and I have rediscovered the childhood simplicity of just hopping onto a bike without all that clip-in/out faff. Finally, I saw too many XRays of mangled ankles and hips due to non-release of cleats, a hazard I can't risk at 71.
Surprising test results! I guess it is what makes you feel happy on the bike at the end of the day. However, it would be interesting to see how the flats would cope on the rougher roads🤔
I always used flats on my downhill bike and hitting some pretty intense trails , they always did great with some skate shoes. Problem with flats for me is that if your foot does come off you can end up with some pretty nasty cuts on your shins from the pedals teeth. Probably only happened to me a hand full of times in 6 years though and I was probably hitting jumps on some of those occasions. I use flats on my road bikes too and haven’t had a problem yet, I do like to go fast but I don’t race. I’d probably pick clipless if I did, anything else and I think it just comes down to personal preference honestly
Another little bonus for me personally and I may be wrong here but I think you also have a bigger selection of pedals if you go with flats
For someone his size, you guys should try the Pedaling Innovations Catalyst (XL version depending on foot size) pedals. They are pretty huge and support the entire foot so you can put down more power.
Great video guys and fair play. If doing another one, as someone else said ride with flats for a while first, and / or include a dedicated flat pedal user, otherwise your body is having to adjust to using them which will be a slight bias.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Really interesting tests❤
After over a decade of clipless mtb and road I went to flats. I did love my Wellgo “SPD” pedals. Had to relearn a bit, being clipped in meant I had acquired some bad techniques! Being a commuter I went to flats there too and basically realized there was zero speed difference over my 2x 18k commute, while a 3kg laptop or wrong tire pressure would show noticeable time difference. When pulling a heavy bike trailer or sprinting like mad, the clipless had some perceived advantage which matches your findings. In forest clipless won a bit being able to manage torque but flats won in total allowing me to attempt tricky tech sections and being able to fall and exit without hurting myself. Sold all SPD stuff and done 100% flats the last decade.
I think that after few months of training with flats also the difference for spints would become insignificant. For longer rides I believe (would be great to test) that flats are superior (at least for non pros) as you can adjust feet position, use different muscles and avoid cramps or other issues.
Good points!
I would never be confident putting down max power without my feet firmly attached to the bike.
Too much chance of slipping and having a crash at high speed.
@@carlosrobertson8265 I have few KOMS on gravel and road in my area and a decade on flats with pins and fiveten shoes and I never had any issues. However, I was scared to push myself until the last bit of energy on clipless as I was scared not being able to unclip....
@@lucachinotti8431 most KOMS aren't flat out sprints though.
Just sounds like a lack of experience with clipless.
I used them as a messenger for several years, raced road, track and MTB and in all my years with SPDs I've only fallen once because I couldn't unclip, and that was on the very first day.
This aligns with my experience, The only difference for me is sprints where I feel more confident on clipless, for other scenarios I see no difference. The final test will be to make the same tests but with two different users,
1 - one person that uses regularly flat pedals
2 - one person that uses regularly clipless pedals
Should we do more testing on this subject? 👀
@@gcn Yes please, I think I just made a similar comment about two riders. Would a regular flat rider actually benefit from clipless? I have played with both pedals on my indoor trainer and could only appreciate a higher cadence whilst using clipless, everything else turned out more or less the same. Yet my cycling friends argue that cycling IRL would show the big differences.
I have used clipped pedals (toe cages) for years and have ridden 150+ miles in a single ride. Longer distance is a good test. I like the flexibility of being able to move my foot in real time to adjust how I’m powering the bike. With s as slight moves of the foot I can give my calf muscles a break or engage calf muscles more heavily up a hill.
good content guys. Keep it up 👏👏
I remember when Shimano introduced SPD. 30 years later I've just discovered flats. The difference is astounding. Flats are so much better. Can move around on the pedals, shoe is glued to the pins. No problems spinning and creating power. No sore feet or knees after 6 hours in the saddle. What a revelation!
back 30 years ago, flat pedals and shoes were no where near as good as they are now, plus on rigid hartails you used to get bounced around all over the place and it was hard to keep your feet in contact with the pedals and not slipping off. Now with 510 and other shoes with super grippy rubber and pedals with steel pins, flats are great, althoug when racing I still prefer the security of clipless, knowing my feet arnt going to be bounced off my pedals, especially on a hardtail - on dually, its easier to keep feet connected in flats
Clipless first started with a money making scheme by the ski ing company Look who used them on ski s where they are needed..Someone at Look thought maybe we can sell them to the cycling mugs as they buy anything , next think old ladies in their 70 s are using them and falling off their bikes , and I ve seen this in action
@@stuartchester6899 yup. I had Look ski bindings. They were the shiz. Wasn’t Greg Lemond pushing the Looks at first? I remember them looking so cool in the magazine ads.
That's mostly because SPD is a trash platform, only ubiquitous because it's made by the biggest component manufacturer, and they license their tech unlike any other design I can think of. Poor security, hard exit, no float, no mud handling. I ride both flats and clips (Frogs or Atacs depending on the bike), with good quality components and shoes made for biking. The difference between a good clipless platform and SPD is night and day. It doesn't help that a lot of shoes still place the clipless cleat mounting way too far forward, contributing to the foot and knee pain issues.
Riding both regularly, I still prefer being clipped in for high speed sections on and off road. On road for the power, off road to avoid a big rock disconnecting one or both feet from the pedals. For your average rider though, flats are more comfortable, more convenient, and safer 99% of the time.
@@sortitus what do you mean " More Power " ? it's been 100% proven beyond all doubt that there is no more power than flats..only way you get more power is by increasing it yourself as the pedals do not gain any extra..proven by power meters ..you have fallen for the myth..what other crappy ideas have you fallen for...tubeless tyres lol .e gears lol ..one born every minute