If Wider Road Bike Tires Are Better, Why Not Go SUPER Wide?!
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- How wide is too wide for road bike tires? We know that wider tires are faster, but how wide can you go until this stops being true? Hank and Alex are back with more GCN Does Science to test out three different tire widths: standard 26mm, chunky 35mm and super-size 50mm. How much does tire width really affect comfort, confidence, bike handling and speed?
00:00 Intro
00:50 Wider = Better?
02:00 The Experiment
03:52 Cornering - 26mm
04:19 Cornering - 35mm
04:48 Cornering - 50mm
05:30 Cornering - Results
07:39 Descent - 26mm
09:06 Descent - 35mm
09:45 Descent - 50mm
10:51 Descent - Results
12:37 Conclusions
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What width tyres do you use for road cycling? 🧐
28 mm
25mm front, 28mm back
25mm
32, tubeless!
28888
I like how they call the 26mm ‘skinny’ - not so long ago 26 would have been considered very wide 😅
Have not ridden under 36mm for the past 10 years 😂 to each it’s own
my 1998 scott waimea pro TT bike had 17mm... some weird michelin kevlar stuff, i swap them for 23mm and i thought thats wide
I've never fitted a tyre wider than 25 mm in all my life.
I’ve been on 28’s for years now, since GCN first began to praise them. I would never go smaller. I have 32’s on my “winter bike” and find them a little slow (though fenders and bike weight might play the bigger role there) and they are good too.
My wheels only fit 23s so...
Careful! You start enjoying supple wide tires and you end up wearing jorts and flannel.
Jorts! We like the sound of that 👀... Si has dabbled in the past! 👉czcams.com/video/Iidtjm_D5gw/video.html
@@gcn
I do now😂
Anything is better than tight lycra, that stuff is nasty.
How about jannel and florts, could be the next trend
@daveashton8516 sure, if you are fat and out of shape.
The Bike industry is 10% science and 90% fashion.
The motorcyclist in me says please stop hugging the centre line on right hand bends. You’ll get your head taken off by a bus.
it would also be very interesting to do the reverse of this experiment and test the uphill times--ride at same wattage up the hill and compare the times.
would heavily favour the 26's (effiency) 35's (grip) if the weight of the tyre the same.
it's only 5-9 mill; the contact patch difference isnt that big.
50's losing there for sure because it'd float.
i'm daily driving light 32's (pasela pt's) and they havent faulted me.
not being worried about potholes bashing my rims is a big plus.
On top of that, it would also be very interesting to see some more statistical relevance put to it....
I'd also like to see the time on him riding that course for a FOURTH time back on the narrower tires. You gain confidence riding the same route over and over again. *SOME* of the speed gains on the wider tires is undoubtedly creditable to knowledge of road conditions, entry and exit lines, etc.
I gradually got to 32mm tyres, and I think that's the sweet spot for casual road cycling. Performance, comfort, speed... all in well balance. Even light dry gravel isn't an issue on 32mm road bike tyres. In fact, it was the GCN doing the ''are wide tyres slow'' comparison videos that helped me to make my decision to go from 25mm to 28mm, later on 32mm tyres. The performance difference is negligible, the comfort however is what separates those three widths apart, also you get more grip with wider tyres. I weight about 92Kg at 198cm height, so I do need more air in tyres than a lighter rider would.
I agree I got 32mm u can run 100 psi on mine so roll resistance is easy
i first bought a canyon hybrid city (roadlite) bike with 30mm tyres. after a year i just upgraded to a grail gravel bike with 40mm. And i must say for a beginner not riding in groups and just for fitness and fun. The difference in comfort is huge. almost feels like you have suspension on the 40mm tyres. and ofcourse the grail is more flexible than my aluminium frame roadlite. but if i had a canyone endurance let's say, i would def do 35-40mm just for comfor and riding some light gravel roads.
tires over 28mm have a hefty aerodynamic penalty at moderate-high speeds though. 25-26 mm is still the sweetspot for a reason
I can ride light dry gravel without issues on my 25mm as well.
@@KekusMagnusSo 28mm front, 32mm rear? 🤔
Having used 48mm slicks on my gravel bike it’ll be hard to go back to a narrow tire. The increased comfort and grip are drastic.
But the speed is slower on tarmac for sure.
@@hakapeszimaki8369 yep, but fortunately/unfortunately I need to ride on mixed surfaces to minimize time around bad drivers and improve my safety
@@TheMirrorVision safety comes first. I have 33 mm tyre for the same reasons
Panaracer gravel tires on front wtb rear tire 700x35 700x37 good setup for road and gravel
48 slicks! 🤯 How do they handle in the gravel?
I think Hanks confidence is more with a decent he's done a couple of times a few minutes ago than with tires of any width
Yea, I don't think those results are accurate. They should make each ride at least 3 times and calculate average
Or start wide first and progress to ‘skinny’.
@IgorRapczewski and @busterbrown2905, you are both right. There are multiple ways to make this experiment worth a thing beyond its "nice to view" quality.
@@IgorRapczewski This wouldn't help, they aren't calculating anything in the first place. The speed you can take a corner, is the point of at which the bike slides out, if you go get a Pro rider they would be able to crazily decent any course faster and a normal person would despite the tyre, and until you get to these levels, it doesn't really matter, you don't want to bomb a corner 1% off the limit of the tyre on an open road with other vehicle as an amateur, if you are you have just made a significant mistake in your line and braking point, because 1% off possible serious hospitalisation is just stupid.
The interesting question is, if you gave a Pro team 35mm tyres on a wet alpine descent, could that team cause the rest of the peloton to crash, or get dropped, because their tyres were objectively better for the conditions, and then what are the losses in weight and aerodynamics across the rest of the stage?
And how about getting him to ride up the climb too? All well and good with the wheels giving great descending confidence but at some point you've got to ride up a hill to ride down it. Will the extra weight slow you down on the ups?
Now go uphill and compare
One thing I’d love to see discussed: tire pressure is one of the biggest question I get at the bike shop especially when people get into gravel and tubeless. I know there’s tire pressure calculators like silica’s where you plug in your weight and tire size etc. but how accurate are those? I’d love to see a day where you ride the pressure you “think” should work well, maybe a plus or minus (over vs under inflated), then run a few calculators, and see how much noticeably different the “right” pressure feels like.
Tire pressures are hard to field test, and give misleading "Feel" results. When pressures are higher than optimal, road bikes tend to feel faster, even though they are not. The Silca calculator is a good starting point, if you want to do better you need a very accurate power meter and learn how to do virtual elevation testing. And remember that a bit too low is better than a bit too high....unless you pinch flat!
since i started my training with my grail gravel bike i just tought that max pressure was the best for road use. 60psi. last run i lowered it to about 40psi. im 100kg + body and i did my fastest run ever. yes i have gotten better shape but beating my time with lower psi and more comfort the choice is a no brainer :)
The silca one is really very good, it’s never more than a few psi out from optimal. That is you know what sort of conditions your going to riding.
Never put numbers to a table, but silca calculator works for me to righr smoother and therefore, faster. As I am just a avarage 100kg commuter on a gravel, the comfort aspect is the best. More comfort also means more confidence to push up my limits to accelerate and also to break.
it depends on the type of road you ride and what do you want. do you go fast in corners, easy mileage etc.? for road you can use the following guideline for small tires: bumb up the pressure until it feels twitchy and overdamped on the little cracks, go then lower until the tire feels more stable, soaking up better the little cracks. thats the dry setup. in the wet around 1 bar lower.
i ended up 6.2-6.5/7bar for training. on shitty roads and cycling paths sometime s5.8/6.5bar, 7/7.5bar for racing on good clean closed roads. and arond 5.8/6bar in the wet. bike 8kg, rider 83kg in full gear. 23mm Michelin Power Cup tire on 700x17C rim.
You should do a second test and add 40/42mm tires to the mix, that size is more common than 50mm and could be a better option in terms of keeping agility and speed up while adding comfort.
I agree. 42 still feels fast while providing excellent traction, pinch protection, rut and crevice safety and comfort.
I never thought the 23mm wide tires that were popular for many years made much sense for the average road rider. I tried them, and quickly moved to 26-28mm tires. Now I see the industry finally warming up to 32-35mm sizes for road use as well. I love to see it. Personally, I’m on 35mm gravel tires these days, and interested in going wider. My use is a mix of road and gravel.
wider tyres are certainly coming into style! How wide do you want to go? For gravel the size could be endless.
@@gcnfunny watching roadies turning into mountain bikers via gravel. Only a matter of time before gravel riders start asking for slacker geometry to extend the technicality of their gravel routes.
@@jonm7272 I've been having the reverse happen. I bought a gravel bike to supplement my mountain biking and have been slowly becoming a roadie with it.
So, back to what road bikes (“10 speeds”) used back when I was a kid in the 70s & 80s. 1 1/4 inch being about 31 or 32 mm.
I suppose that reflects balancing weight and such with having enough rubber on the road and air between the rims and the imperfect pavement. The more things change…
Nah! 23 mm are for those who want to go fast . Safety is not our concern. 26 and 28 are for those who care about safety and confort.
I’ve just upgraded (this week) to 30mm Schwalbe One Evo TLE running at 60psi from 28mm old Schwalbe One’s running at 70psi and can confidently say I am impressed with the comfort with no difference in speed (for me) I’m 63 and weigh 72 kg, it also rained quite hard on my way home so was able to test the grip which was confidence inspiring!
Do maybe you should buy gravel bike and enjoy less agressive geo in the meantime
I run the 28mm tubeless version an I’m considering going to 32mm . I weigh quite a bit more and have found dropping from 70 to 65 psi improves comfort no end
Been on 32mm tubeless for a while now and it seems to be an ideal width for endurance style riding - especially when I hit the less than ideal roads.
It was so nice going from narrows to 32mm. My sit bones definately thanked me
Hi Fellas, Great video. But I think the physics of what’s happening here is more complicated than one might think. A fat tire is more massive and when it is rolling down a hill it has more angular momentum than a smaller width tire with less mass. The more angular momentum a rotating object has the more resistant it is to changing its plane of rotation. So what Hank may be feeling is not more grip but the “determination” of the fat tire to stay at the angle/plane of its rotations making Hank feel the fatter tire is more stable in the turn. It is more “stable,” but perhaps not because of better grip. Theoretically, the total friction between a tire and the road is independent of surface area. That is a theoretical statement. In reality, more surface area can improve the total friction, especially on roads with lots of debris and variations in the quality of the tarmac. Still, I think there is cause for more research here. And then, of course, there is the issue of lugging those heavier tires UP the mountain. 🥵
Notice they didn't talk about contact patch at all, or even slip angle. SO subjective.
@@xanthoptica this is GCN we're watching...
Yes no mention of speed of direction change. A bulky tyre will feel reluctant to switch direction at speed
just curious, they said the thin tyre has more rolling resistance, is it true? why? considering same tyre radius
@@casamasticlab9277 I think you're referring to a thin tire at a consequently higher pressure not conforming as well to irregularities in the road. At the same pressure, thin and wide tires would have similar pliability (though the thin tire would have more resistance from hysterisis as it would be much more deformed with that contact patch).
I went from 23 to 25 to 28 to 28 tubeless and each upgrade made an enormous difference in comfort and speed. Roads that would vibrate my entire aero race bike ('21 systemsix) now feel like when 23's were on a semi-nicely paved road. The only negative I found was high speed descent turns where it felt like more effort was needed and an earlier input. Other than that, prices are the same, garmin tracked laps shows improvements for the same watts. Plus, the systemsix now feels more comfortable than my slower endurance bikes.
it would be nice if you do the same test also for flat/uphill
One of the difficulties will be, how do you measure the important things. Given the massive variable that is the Human Condition, it's practically impossible for a human to repeat a task like this with 100% repeatability. Even this downhill test is ripe with flaws. Traffic, temperature, personal feeling, number of practice runs, etc. Never mind the fact it was 3 different tires entirely. I gather there's a problem finding an identical tire in all 3 sizes. The time deltas really aren't enough to say "this one is the fastest" with any high level of confidence, but Hanks SUBJECTIVE impressions are the more important results anyways.
Great idea... we'll see what we can do 😉
@@gcn what is the preferred tyre size for riders competing in hill climb events in the UK?
@@user-dx7kl5ct5w I think to be scientifically rigorous with this process would be exceedingly difficult.
That's not to say the "experiment" GCN ran has no value.
I think anyone who looks at the problem logically can reasonably deduce that, in general:
* skinny tires will roll faster, fatter tires will roll slower
* skinny tires will handle worse than fatter tires
* skinny tires will be less comfortable than fatter tires
now the degree of each will vary wildly, based on personal composition, tire selection, bike selection, weather, roads, traffic, your mood that day, etc.
it's not even beyond belief that much of the above will be mostly governed by an individual's perception. But that's actually a good thing.
I think one of the best things to come out of this is potentially breaking of the mental chains of "skinnier and higher pressure is always better". The fact is, it's a vanishingly small number of cyclists on the planet that need every single drop of power applied to the absolute best efficiency. If we were we'd all be riding hour record aero fixies. 😅
Most of us just want to roll around, have some fun, and enjoy the ride. I'd see far bigger if I could drop 20# off my mass, so I'm not going to sweat a watt lost due to pressures or another watt lost due to my tires being 3mm wider. I'd much prefer NOT to crack my tail bone AGAIN! 😭
And please don't take anything above or my prior comments to be "hating" on GCN's work; quite the opposite in fact. We're starting to see the tire size shift in earnest, and it'll be interesting to see if bike tire manufacturers quietly step up their compound game to crawl back the "lost" power from sizing up. Or more than likely they won't simply because the juice ain't worth the squeeze (development and production costs outweighing any potential ROI. nevermind good bike tires cost as much as some car tires!)
@@gcnoh, and here's another bike tire testing idea. "normal" vs. "e-bike" tires. When I switched from Bontrager Select Invert to Schwalbe Energizer + Tour (ebike) tires, both in 700x35, it was an amazing difference. Not just in flat resistance but the Schwalbes were noticably faster (like a good 10-20% faster!) and much more confident handling. Yes they're "heavier" but the trade off was WELL worth it, in my opinion.
Progressed from 25, 28.,32mm on the same bike and same 40mm Fulcrum disc wheels. Upgraded my inner tubes to TPU thus saving weight and possibly lighter than tubeless. Being on the heavier side (96kg) and 56years old and still racing at the front of the group I feel more comfortable and relaxed about punctures. Still getting my head around lower pressure but I am now down to 75psi. Not sure I would go much wider than 35mm.
I remember my old 10 speed that I rode back in high school had 1 1/4" (~32mm) tires on them. Over time everyone went with skinnier and skinnier tires until most people were on 23mm tires with many people on 18mm tires. It is interesting to see the trend reversing.
The industry just wants us to buy more stuff!
What’s old is new again !
I saw the guys and cameraman whilst they were filming at Cheddar Gorge. Top blokes and genuinely nice people. (Me in the background here trying to not video bomb to badly!) 8:09
Chatted to them about my own GBDuro attempt and how GCN got me started on my own Hankesque mad challenges. The GBDuro route absolutely battered me, but completed it!
Thanks to Hank for shouting out my charity, Victoria’s Promise, as well as the guys using my drone to film me riding!
Big thanks to you all!
P.s I reckon Hank needs to do the Tour Divide next…
very cool !
Fantastic video! It seems that all too often GCN recycle the same content over and over but occasionally we get these valuable gems with really cool info and testing.
I'm not sure this is really about tyres but instead, Hanks confidence and how far he will push it. I'd be more interested to see the rolling resistance on each tyre tested. Ultimately, that's the statistic that affects us most of all.
Totally agree. You can't really know the limit until you go past it. Obviously that's not going to be done with someone riding it. So ultimately this didn't answer much. Yeah he leaned the bike over further when he had the bigger tires on that could be because he had more grip or it could be because he had a preconceived notion of how it would perform. We can't know
@justintime5021 Also, Hank could (probably did) have a preconceived bias that may have resulted in using a more aerodynamic position on the bike.
Upvoted for the repeat sequences of Hank descending Cheddar Gorge. Never gets old. ❤
That 50mm tire is clearly a very thick treaded touring beast, you should try something much lighter/faster in roughly the same width.
Yup, that's a really weird tire to pick. I'm guessing the RR is terrible on it😅
I think the problem is that doesn’t exist. They don’t make that kind of tyre above about 32-35c.
@@fatbloaterdave my Panaracer Gravel King Slicks are very fast tires. I have them in 32 and 35mm and the 32s are about 20g lighter than my 28mm Schwalbe ProOnes. Rene Hearst Antelope Hills come in a 55mm width and are also very fast
@@fatbloaterdaveRene Herse makes them. They're the only ones I know of.
Continental urban contact . They make them up to 65mm and they are really low rolling resistance.
Love Steve and his honesty. Also love my hardtail 🤘. The full susser just pacifies the ride too much so went back to a HT with 2.8 size tyres and does everything I need it to while being loads of fun and less to maintain.
I've been using 52-mm Rene Herse "Rat Trap Pass" extralights for years. I'm glad to see tires in this size class finally getting some love on GCN.
I just installed the Rene Herse Rat Trap Pass - Endurance tires on my touring bike yesterday. What an incredibly comfortable and fast tire on and off road! Looks like I've finally found the very best tire for touring !!
I'm using the 48s on my gravel bike. Great tire, as an MTBer skinnies never felt right, and performed worse
They should have used rene herse for all 3 sizes for a more balanced test. Then the 50 might have been the fastest.
@@paulg666 Their contract to make advertisements for Pirelli probably wouldn't allow that.
I just bought a Bombtrack Audax AL that fits 650B x 47's. Although the bike will see some gravel I basically plan to use it as "road plus". After two days I already love it but may not have the patience to wear out the stock WTB Horizons before replacing them with RH Swichback Hills. Fat is where it's at!😂
Good idea for a video.
It would seem that order would be a big factor -- I'd assume any rider would be more confident going through a corner on 2nd and 3rd iteration compared to their first time through.
I'd be interested in tire pressures and tire compound conditioning. (I always felt my old michelins were a bit better after a few miles in them)
Tyres do take bit of time to warm up 🔥
Descending on each tyre multiple times (the more the better) and comparing the average times would be a more accurate & quiet interesting.
Now I want to see these put to the test on the flat and hills.
I’m running tubeless Rene Herse Barlow Pass 38s for mixed surface (mostly road) and loving them.
Great video as always, thanks for another real life test! There's, however, a flaw in the setup of the first part because it doesn't fully consider the riding physics of a bike:
In a turn, a bike supports itself against the centrifugal and weight force occurring via a force that lies on the line between the center of gravity and the tire contact point. At the same cornering speed and the same cornering radius, the wider the tire, the more a bike must be angled, since the tire contact point moves further and further away from the center of the vehicle toward the inside of the corner.
Consequently, lean angle is *not* a conclusive indicator of cornering speed when comparing tires of *different width*, because at least some part of the greater lean will have resulted from the width itself.
When I rode my 2020 Trek Domane SL7 with wide rims and 700x32C tires for the first time through a fast descent, I instantly had a huge smile on my face as the bike handled like it was on rails. Quite the contrast from the 700x23C and 25C tires I had on previous bikes.
At the moment I‘m waiting for my Trek Domane+ SLR 7 and at first I was sceptical about the 32mm.m cause I‘m used to the 23mm. But in the shop and finally in this video I changed my mind and‘ll give it a try 😊
@@erwingrabler697 Narrow tires on an ebike makes even less sense unless you're a glutton for punishment.
@@buster.keaton you are right so I‘ll test the 32 mm - and see how it will run ☺️ as a starting point. I‘m from the generation with the small rims, but open for new experience.
I start with an e-bike cause of my injury from last year and the knee will not become new again. So I went in the actual bicycle theme and the news developed there in the past 30 years 😊 and decided for the Trek.
I can post my experience here of course
Wide tyres = more fun... it's the simple 😉
definitely a good starting point for the discussion.
My (what was once called) hybrid bike came with 700x35 tires, and my first set of replacements I stuck with that size. just the change in tire composition created a MASSIVE improvement in handling, speed, and overall confidence (Schwalbe!) they're getting worn out and i'm replacing them (as well as the wife's and kid's tires) end of this year. for myself and the kid i've been toying with the idea of a 700x40 tire for replacements, to give just that little bit more in terms of confort.
the wife's bike cam with 26x2.125 seriously heavy more off-road than road tires, and she too saw a hugely noticeable improvement when I switched her to a different brand (and more on-road oriented) 26x1.75 tire. I've considered dropping hers down to a 1.5 wide tire, but now I'm thinking I should leave her at 1.75 if possible.
now what might be an interesting future comparison, is e-bike vs. non-e-bike classified tires. I say this because, my aforementioned replacement tires are e-bike tires, and I chose them because of their claimed flat resistance and durability, which so far I'd have to agree with.
It would be interesting to see this type of experiment on the same wheel. I tried 28s on my bora wto wheels that are optimized for 25s and I couldn’t stand them. I found they flexed separate from the wheels rather than creating a nice rigid system. The more important thing for confidence is probably to use the optimal tire size for the wheels.
I 32mm GP5000r and love them, put them through their paces down Els Angles in Girona and they were amazing!
I feel like this is missing a couple things: we know wider tires are less aero so a TT would probably be wise, as would an acceleration test since we know they're heavier and therefore slower to get up to speed
A lot of people time trial with a front tire narrower than the brake track but with a wider tire on the back where the drag loses are largely negated.
That's kind of what I was expecting too. I imagine they're holding back for a follow up vid.
@@veganpotterthevegan This has actually been slightly debunked. The newest aero road wheel setups are coming with a rim profile that's slightly wider in the front than in the rear. Look at Reserve.
@@aloha_from_bradley it's not debunked. And that's not anything knew. Enve did that years ago
@aloha_from_bradley look at the internal vs external differences relative to total width. This is done for crosswind stability up front
Slid out on my 32mm tires on a shady and perhaps mossy patch a couple weeks ago. Scabs are finally mostly gone at this point. I do think being able to go downhill safely is very important. Nearly fell down the mountainside on that one and ended up destroying some clothes and a phone. I do wish there was a way to progressively develop experience for these things that was lower risk. Perhaps just more awareness as to where loose stones and other slippery bits are likely to gather would be better. I have wondered about the potential for going even larger in terms of tires, but I like going longer distances and most of my time is spent going uphill, so the temptation to spend more money and time on those isn't quite there yet.
Try it. You will love every mm more, believe me!
My go to road tyre, which I ride on my everyday bike, an Enigma Escape, is a 38mm Panaracer Gravel King slick. Smooth, pretty fast and so good on swooping corners. It also does an amazing job at turning crappy chip-seal into (almost) hot mix.
This is a really interesting subject that could be explored further. I use 32mm wide tyres in winter but run 28mm the rest of the year. I recently rode my bike with 35mm wide tyres in Flanders and there was no difference in speed at all tbh but a massive improvement in comfort. I’ve put 50mm knobbly tyres on my gravel bike ahead of the winter mud but can’t see any need for a 50mm wide, slick tyre at all so I’m surprised by the accidental global announcement on the GCN Show by Hank of a certain manufacturer bringing out this width of slick tyre. I don’t foresee any situation where I’d want that.
I ride 37-622 on my Canyon Endurace.
I believe these give me the best overall performance and stability on a variety of road surfaces. ♥️
Comment "heard you" if you see this
Thank you, Jan Heine, for pushing the bicycle world into a new era!
My 33mm gravel tyres balloon out to a 35 with a 21mm IRW, I am really happy with them and their performance thus far definitely getting my head back in the game after crashing out last year
Really enjoyed you guys picking up on this and your findings! To make it fair though, I think you should've used a more 'road' tire fore the wide one, like a René Herse. Of course that touring tire would be way out of line weight wise.
I am riding 26x2.3 on my Randonneuring bike, they are the René Hearsé “Rat Trap Pass” extra-light casing. I am running them tubeless @22 psi, they are the most comfortable tires I have ever ridden. I also use them on gravel.
I use mye gravel tires 38mm (vittoria terreno). Tried 28 a few long rides, it just becomes so uncomfortable, and the difference between performance on the tires are only a couple of kph.
This is very useful, thanks for the video!
i'd like to highlight about the counter steering effect that motorcycle racers do on corners. you can clearly see that He's doing it without noticing maybe just because He feels more confident with the greater contact patch (just something on his head because He didn't had enough time to push it to the point of slide or skidding). Of course this only takes into account downhill speed and cornering. Going up hill and push on straight is another subject to be analyzed separately.
What about the actual tpi? If the 50 is way more stiff wouldn’t that have a huge effect on the results?
I’ve run 25, 28, 30, and 32 gp5000s tubeless on my Supersix, with wheels that help optimize the width as best I could, the latter big boy sizes being Reserve 40/44 with 25.5 internal width and external of over 33.
I found the 30 to be the sweet spot, the 32 felt slower and heavier and strava result showed a higher wattage to rolls at higher speeds, we’re as the fastest times we’re on the 25 and 28s, I had no losses with the 30s and huge gains in comfort and grip.
I think if you’re going to compare tire sizes up to 50 I would have picked Rene Herse tires that come in increments to many sizes.
I am curious if you experienced tire width increment with those (wide) rims?
I concluded same sweet spot at 30mm, too, but with 28mm GP5000 (tubed) expanded to 30mm on 25mm int / 32mm ext rim; 30mm Challenge Strada Bianca would expands to 32mm.
25mm rim is what modern XC MTBs run, surprised road wheels are getting that wide. Enduro bikes only run 30mm wide rims typically with DH bikes still often running 25mm rims.
Front 30, back 32 is the optimal on proper wide rims. (23-25mm internal).
Come to the gravel bike side... it's nice here! I run 38mm Hutchinson Overide tubeless tires on everything from road centuries to gravel roads, tar and chip back roads and mellow mountain bike trails. The freedom to ride on such mixed surface routes keeps my local rides from ever being stale.
my last road bike was on 23 and felt fine even on 100 pis....then when I got my new road bike I specced it with 650b wheels (whilst I decided what wheelset to go with) with 47mm semi slicks gravel tyres...running at 35psi...they still seemed pretty quick as I was able to go as fast as I did on my old road bike...but then switching to deep carbon wheels, Lun Hypers and 30mm GP5K's, apart from the huge drop in weight of nearly 1.3kg, it feels smooth and comfortable and is far far faster....did consider 32's but right now 30 is the sweet spot for me (and tubless of course)
Just switched from 28c to 32c. The difference is amazing. No way i thought it would make such a difference in comfortability. Ppl complain about feeling slow or floaty but if thar bugs you, you can always just take a peak at your bike computer and you'll see you're literally going the same speed of not faster from being able to go harder since the ride isn't as uncomfortable
What wheels/rim inner width is that with? Thinking of going from 28 to 30
@@Z-u-m-a stock that came with my 2020 specialized roubaix (pretty sure it's standard 700). Put some Continental gatorskins on. Don't really care about weight since it's an endurance bike. Just wanna get some decent miles in-between MMA training.
I notice no difference in "comfort." Also, I don't go any slower if I'm comfortable or not.
I switched from 25 mm to 23 mm and it feels amazing
aren't the casings and tread different, providing different RR?
Living off a bicycle, my last was 1.5" width, and this past year was 2.25". Gained comfort, increased flats, increased pain climbing. Looking forward to 1.5" this March.
I have Schwalbe Super Moto X 27.5 X 2.4 tyres fitted to my Focus Bold Ebike. Im 69 years old and have ridden over 8,000 kms on these tyres. The tyres look less than half worn out. I have overtaken hundred of bikes on downhill roads and only been overtaken once. The confidence and comfort these tyres give is amazing.
You can use kinovea to measure the bank angle pretty accurately! Looks like 32, 36 and 39 degrees for 26, 32, and 50mm respectively.
There are so many factors you can't measure from a video frame that those numbers are pretty meaningless. Do you have a level in frame so that you know where to put the bottom of your measured angle? Do you know where the center of gravity of bike+rider is (that's what matters for cornering force/speed)? And, of course, do you know how close to the point of sliding out Hank was? Um...no.
Mine are 32 or 35mm. I am quite large and would need to run smaller tires rock hard. Pretty happy with these, could even go a bit wider next time.
👍🏾I weigh over 95 kilos and I'm over 6 foot and 38mm panaracers have been amazing for me on my gravel bike.
@@moreseun yeah, I am about the same size: a bit heavier and a bit taller, but on the same ballpark. It is good to have these wider tires these days to avoid pinch flats or rock hard tires.
I am on my early 40's and used to race as a teenager. By that time the standard was around 20mm and I remember to have used some Hutchinson tyres 18mm wide!! Also remember using some Continental ones which accepted up to 9 barg pressure, crazy. But it was the accepted standard by then...
I’d also be interested in seeing a clincher vs tubeless vs tubular vs latex tube cornering and descending test. I have always found tubular with the same pressure as tubeless is by far the best for confidence in corners
After having Schwalbe Big Apples on my commuter hybrid, the wider the better imho. What you lose in power you gain back from a considerable reduction in fatigue and increased comfort.
Can confirm (with Schwalbe Marathons), especially with heavier weights (150kg total), worse weather/surface/traffic... I miss the drop bars from my road bike occasionally (read: "in headwinds") but I never miss skinny tyres
@@MichaelSmith-fg8xhSCHWALBE ENERGIZER + TOUR WIRE circa 2017 here. can confirm they are amazing. ONLY nit I can pick about them, is something about the tread design makes them want to "hook" on to fresher road lines for a split second. Other than that I might be a Schwalbe rider for life.
Also put a Schwalbe Marathon HS420 GreenGuard on each of the kid's trail-a-bikes (20" and 24") when he was still on them, and they too made that experience massively better.
I ride 35mm on my Canyon endurance and i doesn't seem to slow me down 😉 Also the gravel roads around my home are quite smooth so my roadbike doubles as a gravelbike 😅
I would be very curious to see this test replicated for a flat road at different speeds, but also especially for sprinting/acceleration.
I use 650-47mm on my Midnight special, love it. Going to 35 mm when I change the wheelset for 700.
Raced in the '80's/90's with 19mm clinchers or 21mm tubulars at 160PSI, I just put 28's on my bike and they feel massive!😂
I think this would have been better if you'd chosen more "road" sizes. I.e. gp5000s in 25/28/32. And also timed yourself riding back up the hill to see if there is a significant weight penalty.
I've been commuting on a 34mm Vittoria Corsa N.EXT for awhile and been loving the comfort and ability to drop the pressure for more grip if it's a little wet.
Just transitioned from 25s to 30s (could not go wider due to rim brakes), and holy... absolutely amazing. Yes they don't punch as fast as the 25s, but the speed, the rolling resistance that is a lot less, the comfort, and the cornering was absolutely noticeably different. Also, on the same wheels, and both my 25s and 30s are Contis GP5000S TR (tubeless). Great video!
I highly doubt that 30mm tyres are faster than 25. The aerodynamics must be horrible.
@@MicroageHD they were not... A 5 mm difference on a tire won't make a tangible impact on aerodynamics. You would need much higher speeds than a bike could really sustain, or, in conditions so perfect, so ideal (like a wind tunnel), that it would make a minor impact. The real measurable impact was on stability. More stable, more grip, and (depending on the tire compound) less rolling resistance = overall faster. Trust me, I couldn't believe it until I tried it.
The 50mm felt nuts I gotta say. Can’t imagine that isn’t noticeably heavier enough where you notice it sops your energy. I ride 32mm tubeless and I’m very happy. My cycling buddy rides 35mm on his Orbea, but can’t see anyone going wider than that.
Weight has so little impact that you won't feel it. Even when climbing, let's say 50% of energy goes into lifting the weight up the hill. Then 500g more will be a 0.6% increase. So overall, 0.3% more energy expenditure in this climb.
@MMms75 i agree,my first was a 32 mm when i was a child.It was so quick and effortless. when i was a young man i bought one with tyre size 50 mm.The difference was was very visbile and finally i ended up selling that cycle in 1 year.Now i am planning to buy a 35 mm hybrid and settle
@@YuriyKulikov In your calculation you considerd the weight difference in cycle due to tyre thickness but missed the enegy gain or loss due to a thicker /thinner tyre.Thats really significant
The test would have made much more sense if you would have used similar tires, with similar construction and compound (f.e. from rene herse, everything between 26mm and 55mm is very comparable).
Nice Hank and Alex collab, very entertaining. My endurance bike is riding on 35mm, comfortable and sweet rolling.
I do exactly the same gravelking slicks 35mm, with 24mm internal wheel width. comfort and less resistance wins all day long....
Very interesting video. I am by no means a 'Roadie' and ride both a gravel bike and a heavy duty tourer. I use 35mm on my gravel bike and 50mm on my tourer. The 35's give me a bit more confidence and a lot more comfort on the gravel bike over skinny tyres and, as I'm not competitive in any way, I don't notice any difference in my 'performance'. The 50's give me bags of comfort and bags of confidence on my tourer - especially when heavily loaded and I wouldn't go back to anything smaller for touring. I guess it's horses for courses but I did read somewhere that wider tyres are now more efficient due to modern tyre construction. Previously a lot of energy was lost but modern casing spring back more efficiently so less energy is lost as the tyre flattens out and springs back into shape as it rolls. Obviously this depends on correct tyre pressures and decent quality tyres - but I'm sure fans of this channel will know all about that!
I do think for some applications wider is better, but I went from 23 to 28 on my road race bike it just made my race bike less responsive and the steering vague. Switched back to 25 and that seems like the best for me. The nice thing about cycling is that everyone can come up with a tire configuration that works for them! Run 35s on my Gravel bike and wouldn't go bigger there either so maybe I am just better with smaller tires?
Feel and reality aren't the same thing. We all have bias but data can thankfully bring us into reality. Even track cyclists are starting to go away from narrow tires.
*You may have so narrow of a rim that's making your tires feel that way too
@@veganpotterthevegan what never lies is the stop watch. and smaller tires change the handling too. on my comuter conway (you can see a version of it on my channel) i tried everything from:
42mm:
-Schwalbe Marathon Supreme (good grip, good puncture resistance, more on the heavy side, don´t like fast cornering that much)
37mm:
-Schwalbe marathon plus (900g!, shyte grip, shyte rolling resistance, shyte handling nearly never a flat with it)
-Schwalbe marathon racer (way better tire, much lighter)
-Challenge Strada Bianca (a challenge to mount when new, light, but real nice rolling restance and supple, not the greatest puncture resistance, expensive)
-Panaracer Gravelking (same as the strada but less supple, carcass is stiffer, a bit less expensive)
35mm:
-Schwalbe Kojak (good grip and balance for cornering, good puncture resistance, carass a bit stiff, mediocre rolling resistance acording to tests, cheap)
-CONTINENTAL GRAND PRIX URBAN (great grip, but a bit twitchy on high speed cornering, i blame it on that stupid ass thread pattern, nice tire)
32mm
-Conti Contact Speed (similar to kojak, but better carcass, cheap)
28mm
-Conti 4k SII (proper race tire, real fast, made the bike more agile but also a bit twitchy in some conditions, lots of grip, puncture resistance was shyte for comuting)
25mm
-Pirelli P Zero (high quality race tire, same as the conti, looked a bit small in the frame)
the fastest an lightest with proper tire pressure was the Conti 4k and Pirelli P Zero, got almost the speed of a roadbike with it. best overall balance (grip, speed,handling, puncture resistance) on that bike on my roads was 32-35mm. also 32-35mm looks best in that frame.
honourble mention. Continental Contact Urban in 50-559 on a Bridgestone MB-5 MTB bike for use in the City. Made the bike real fun to ride. lots of grip, good rolling resistance.
@RevoltingRudi stop watches lie a lot. Power meters don't. Conditions from ride to ride vary too much and a lack of wind or even a mild tailwind that's unnoticeable can throw off that data massively on top of random stops and even the draft from traffic you're not trying to draft off of.
*unless you have a very open route to work with few turns, time data isn't going to be that useful. My best time up a local 7mile climb was not on my fastest/lightest bike. I simply had an insane tailwind and I was pushing about 15w less than I do when I actually ride hard. But that wind was so absurd that I bested my top time by nearly 2min...with my old top time also having a tailwind.
@@veganpotterthevegan i run the same road to my work every day, every year in every weather. doesnt matter if -10 degree or +30. i have run all tires over the years in every weather on all kind of pressuresx. some of them i even tried on black ice. so i know my times even accounting the wind and i know whats fast. i have bought all the tires for myself. and the smaler one are in general as a trend the fastest. but the biggest difference is not the tire. it´s the position on the bike, how fat you are and the cloth you wear. thats where the real big time saving are. no aero gain, wheel, bike or tire will save you from baggy pants, and floppy jackets and a big belly. but bike marketing will lie to you an try to sell you shit you don´t need. reapeting a lie 100x will not make it a truth.
@@RevoltingRudi that temperature gradient throws out a lot of your times as being useful too. You're wearing those bulky clothes when the air is also more dense. This is why power meters are the only actual accurate way to do this.
you need to try a 650b x 42 vs a 700x25 those have the same overall diameter and the feeling of the road bike is not affected...only the wider contact patch
I've Marin nicasio. Two sets of wheels. 700x30 and 650x47 the same diameter judging by frame and fork clearance
Good video 👍😀. But please keep in mind that a wider tyre needs more lean angle for doing the same corner speed as a smaller tyre.
Love the video. Now.. do this test with riding uphill included and then compare the times ;)
I run 2 meter wide tyers, its like im riding on silk and can still get from London to Glasgow in under an hour!
Forget what the Pros are doing. From being very light for their height to being able to change equipment for every stage.
28-30c is my sweet spot for road and 32c for commuter. Choose the width that fits your riding. And if you use TPU tubes, changing tyres is not that messy!!!
@gcn, Could you please specify the tires (brand, model) you use in the comparison and the bike as well? I see it has grx 2 by, it should be a gravel from Canyon.
I've been riding 35mm tires on my gravel bike for years. Finally GCN have caught up with me!
Shouldve installed a camera below the bottom bracket shell to observe the front and rear tires behaviour during cornering.
Comparing the slip angles of the different width tires would be a great indicator.
Don't forget about the gyroscopic effects (centripetal force) of spinning all of that extra mass as the tyre gets heavier, essentially fighting you as you change angle. I wonder if you felt that? Now if I could only remember how to calculate it...
I was biking uphill on a bike with much wider and heavier tires and found it easier than the bike with the skinny tires.
It felt like the rolling mass was beneficial.
I’m already using 2.6 inch semi slicks. Such a great tyre!
Been running 35s on my main road bike for awhile (my other bike only fits 30mm). Waiting for the rest of the world to catch up on how comfortable & stable yet fast they are! Truth is, I'm a bigger rider north of 200lbs and prefer comfort over outright speed/aero and came from mtb for most of my life and wider tires have always appealed to me.
Yup I’m no small fry either and have been using 35’s for some time although the 40’s seem intriguing I’m just thinking if I went much wider when would they begin to get slower?
44 mm for me. Tried them out due to hand/wrist issues and won't go back to "skinnies". At first, all my friends looked at me, laughed and said we're not waiting for you. I felt no impact on my speed, was faster on our rougher roads & felt better at the end of the day.
Same thing happened to me. I was running 28mm schwalbe ones on my Folding road bike. Thought they were the governors. Then a friend said to me to try these VEE Speedster 35mm tires. And they were not only more comfortable. They were faster than the Schwalbe ones. For both Top speed. And average speed. Blew my mind. 35mm is perfection. The perfect balance..
My all-purposes bike has a set of 700x32C and then also 650x47B knobbies. Both about the same diameter so similar handling.
For general enjoyment road riding with the the occasional "where does that path go?" thrown in, 32C is simply practical. For me going skinnier means I'm sacrificing comfort and grip for a minute or two I don't really miss.
You mean overall wheel diameter, not tire diameter, right?
I currently ride 26mm but a front wheel wash out from some years back still haunts me!
On related topics I had a pair of 27.5x2.8 Schwalbe G-Ones on my hardtail and they roll surprisingly well.
I have 3 sets of wheels. each with a different tire depending on what I'm doing. I have a 28mm for my speed set, 35mm for my all-purpose, and 45mm for my gravel and when I'm riding with my wife. I have the 35mm on most of the time because it offers the best of all worlds including good speed, agility, and comfort. the 28mm works well on group rides since most of my riding buddies have road bikes and I have a gravel bike. It helps me keep up with them. It's great to have three wheelsets because its like having three bikes, when I only have one.
If you add up the total time descending in a typical bike event and compare it to the time spent climbing time and or the time spent going fast on the flats, it does. ot take a ricket scientist to conclude that light weight and aerodynamics and far more important than the extremely thin marginal gain of a wide tire in a corner . I have noticed this season that several of our club members have been going down in tire width on their road bikes. Most say it's because they don't like the noticeable performance loss of balloon (30mm+) tires. My advice, as I fly past them on the climbs, flats and descents is, if you want to minimize weight, maximize aerodynamics and be as comfortable as possible, stop listening to the marketing hype and get back onto some old-school 23C or 25C expensive tubs! They are worth every penny.
I'm going to guess that you're noticing the lower rotational moment of a wheel with lighter tires. If you want to jump or sprint (or even jam out of the saddle) you really notice the effort it takes to spin up a wheel with a higher moment...and the weight that makes the most difference is tire (+ tube) weight, because it's farthest from the hub. When folks say wide tires feel sluggish, I bet this is a lot of what they are feeling.
I'm running 38mm slicks (rené herse barlow pass) for the road and won't go back to 28. So comfortable!
Great work team! Videos on tyres are always a winner - you could set up a GCN Tyres channel and go crazy! It may not last long, but what a legacy!
I have 32s, at one point I got a set of 38s but was happy enough I never installed them. Gave them to a mate at work for his commuter after seeing his tyres were overdue for replacement!
Used to think I was gutless around bends, but now I realise that as an older recreational/commuter rider on an older road bike with skinny tires, I'm just being sensible.
We all know that sensible is over rated though 🤣🤪
I didnt think wider are less rolling resistance, but depends on the road surface. Straight sprints round a shopping centre with marble floors and prob 19mmat 120psi will be fastest. Actually that would make a good video.
How many rides have you done on a marble floor?
@@paulg666 one on ceramic tiles, which is close enough.
Might have missed it but which model was the 35c tyre? Would be great on my commuter that currently has 28c tyres, looking for some more grip and compliance.
I currently ride a 30mm on my Endurace and love it. In my opinion I believe it’s the sweet spot.
I'm now riding with 47mm mostly. It's really comfortable and you have a lot of confidence in any corner.
I did the local group ride that I normally do on my road bike on 28mm gp5000 with latex tubes on 40mm schwalbe g one rs tires on my gravel bike.
The weighted average power is within 3 watts, the time is the same, strava's relative effort is within 1.
I was truly amazed at how a supposedly less aero bike on slower tires made almost zero difference in the real world.
Yeah thats strange! I have switched from standard alu wheels and continental ultrasport 3 (28mm) to a 35mm deep carbon wheel with chellenge criterium RS 25/27. The extra speed is the same as going from my old alu suspension fork hybride bike to my carbon road bike.
I have a several bicycles I use for transportation. My fast commuter road bike has 28s, some have 37s. My touring bike I put 45s on it for a cross US trip. I really like the smooth ride of big tires when on rough roads. The larger tires also handled the heavy loads of camping gear, food and water. Leaving a grocery store, my total bike weight was around 100 pounds.
I am really thinking about putting 42 or 45s on all but the road commuter.
For tires, I love schwalbe marathon plus are good tires, continental contact are good to, both with reflective sidewalls.
The skinnier the tire, the less it can weigh, and there for can give faster acceleration
A big part that was left out was tire pressure. This can greatly affect the feel and grip of a tire when cornering. I run tubeless on all my bikes. Road bike with 25mm tires at about 70 psi, and gravel bike with 40mm tires at about 30-35 psi.