Clipless Pedals Vs Flat Pedals | To Clip In Or Not To Clip In
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 2. 06. 2024
- Clipless pedals are often regarded as essential for road cyclists. They make you feel more connected to the bike, and improve your pedalling efficiency. However, shoes with cleats on the bottom are tricky to walk in, and it can be reassuring knowing you can quickly put a foot down if you need to! There are pros and cons to each pedal system so, in this video, we compare clipless and flat pedals to see which is best!
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Leave us a comment below! - Sport
What pedals do you use? Let us know in the comments below!
Bloody piss; the transitions between Hank and Manon on the tests were *chefâs kiss* - bravo editors/camera operators.
You don't use trainers for cycling. If you had use proper shoes and pedals the results for flats would be better. Go ask the GMBN crew for a couple of pairs.
@@thetimkatt819 lol lol lol, definitely couldn't have said that better, well done indeed, on point.
Neither - toeclips for me.
@@stubbietubbie Don't forget proper flat pedals as well, digs into the shoes a bit more and your feet don't move.
I will repeat what other guy said on a similar video by GCN:
"Thank you for this video, I will be able to use it with my students as an excellent example of confirmation bias!"
Yea when they complain the entire way up with flat pedals I wonder why they do so poorly on it.
That's basically every GCN comparison video.
@@james-tennis You never tried clipless pedals, right?
Should get one of the GMBN presenters (maybe Blake) to try burst out some watts on the flat pedals and compare it with the roadies with clipless pedals... The video mentioned how mountain bikers have really good control with flats, so maybe its a good way to measure and compare "apple with apple". -my 2 cents :)
Yeah. As they said, they both use clipless pedals normally, so it is kinda obvious that they are not going to be comfortable on flat pedals.
I would like to see the same test repeated with someone who uses flats, give them a little training on clipless if they haven't used them before and then see which one is faster.
Blake would destroy them haha
Especially when you get decent shoes this will increase the efficiency immensely
@@LifeofMaik totally, they were using a cheap set of plastic pedals and trainers, compared to the high-end clipless and road shoes
@@maxrevell3830 those shoes are absolutely crap tastic. I mean would you even want to run them if your a runner? Nope those are the wrong shoes.
Good flat pedal shoes are a must, they are stiff and that's what clipless shoes are too, not that stiff but way stiffer then just your general shoe...
Come on GCN. Do a valid comparison. Modern high end platform pedals with cycling specific platform pedal shoes and what ever road shoes and pedals you want. Presenter needs 500 Km on platforms before the test to ensure they have developed proper technique.
So you mean a floppy 5 10 shoe still very soft compared to a Giro Camber shoe
And also, they shouldn't draw "sustained effort" conclusions from a 1 minute climb! They should do at least 20km.
There is no real-world situation where you ride flat-out for only a minute, but still havr time to put on your cycling gear, if you're in such a hurry to see your neighbour, you're better off running đ
What is there to compare even then? Research shows similar power long distance, only difference being peak power with clipless in the lead.
It's km, not Km. Km would be Kelvin metres.
@@corentinoger Standard commuting ligth to light is a 1min effort if you want to keep up with cars - which I want to change lanes easily.
4:50 that transition was perfect.
I immediately came to the comments when I saw it. You did not disappoint me
She also transitioned from flats to clip less real quick
production value
6:27 transition was pretty good too
Modern lightweight large flats. Use my own shoes, sneakers, sandals, or whatever I want. On long rides more comfortable because you can adjust the position of your feet if you want. Plus, I can walk with comfort instead of looking like a crippled duck. Don't care about looking less 'pro', none of us are!
Being 74 years old and cycling for only a year after a 30 year lay off I prefer flat pedals. Leaning to use clipless at my age could result in serious injury from falls. I would rather not take the chance.
Same age. Prefer the security of clips.
Im only 47 and Im pretty sure I fractured my wrist the first I tried them
It depends on what you're doing on your bicycle. In my experience, clipless pedals provide a noticeable but not earth-shattering performance advantage over flats, particularly when climbing or sprinting. If you're totally focused on racing/sport, then clipless are probably the best choice. If you're commuting in heavy urban traffic, or touring, or riding on steep dirt, or going to meet friends, or doing anything else BUT racing or "serious" club rides, it's probably more comfortable, convenient, and almost as fast just to use a decent pair of flat pedals. It's often nice to be wearing "normal" clothes and shoes when you get to your destination.
This. Much of road cycling is pretentiousness, it would seem...
Note however that in BMX racing, nobody uses clipless pedals so... no easy answer, even for races.
100%.
â@@beckyball1646pretentiousness exactly đ
Touring and descending, itâs nice to know your feet are secure on the pedals.
I use super grippy flats, find it gives me the best of both
If the test was done with decent flat pedals with pins and actually decent stiffer soled and grippier flat pedal shoes, the result would likely be a lot closer!
Frustrating they compared expensive clipless shoes and pedals to the most basic plastic flat pedal with cheap trainers!
They've made this same video a million times before and never bothered with a proper flats set-up. I don't understand why they mention the MTB guys but don't actually emulate what they do in this test.
I use good quality MKS pedals with leather toe straps. with a pair of standard Converse trainers, these have always worked well for me. Hassle free too
Came here to say exactly that. With proper grippy flat pedals and shoes there is very little risk of your foot slipping off. I can't even slide my foot sideways on the pedal once I'm "anchored".
Because marketing đ
To be fair, thatâs the point, the average non clipless person is rocking the EXACT flat setup they tested (source, every new cyclist I know, and me)
After years of riding clipless I finally got fed up of needing specialist shoes just for taking the kids on a ride to the park so stuck a pair of proper metal flats on one of my bikes. And I found .... nothing really, Didn't slip off, didn't feel a lack of power, wasn't insecure. Now admittedly I wasn't pushing it (because kids) but it really wasn't bad at all. Modern flat pedals and decent trainers have come on a LONG way from when clipless first started.
No, it's not bad - but you don't need specialist shoes for taking the kids on a ride to the park. A platformed 'mountain bike' pedal can be used quite comfortably with a pair of trainers if you are not pushing for performance.
(My annoyance with rides to the park is rather with the fact that anything other than shorts or very tight trousers almost inevitably catch in the ring/chain... so I'll change trousers anyways - and while I'm at it, since the shoes need to be removed in any case to change the trousers, I may as well put the proper shoes on - which turns going to the park into a faff!)
Really,flat pedals,what is wrong with youâ
^this.
Good for you! I recently switched from flats to mtb spd shoes/cleats and couldnât be happier. I have stiff x country shoes that are like road shoes, and flexible mtb shoes that are as comfy as trainers/tennis shoes.
Same! I found that my feet feel more secure and I can put the same amount (not a lot) of power. Once I figured that the decision to ditch clipless was easy but I guess they sell and look cool.
I use clipless on my road bike and flats on gravel bike (used to mountain bike a lot and like the freedom offroad)
I think the excuse of slipping however is a weak arguement. Theres loads of different flat pedals some with removable pins and some not. Plus the test should have used trainers designed for flats. Pitting highend clipless shoes and pedals against cheap plaggy flats and some ultra flexible running trainers is just a video for crapping on flats.
My Adidas Samba works really well with flat pedals, even feels that it nailed into it up until the 5 oâclock position.
@@Cinito666 aye a nice decent flat sole with some sturdiness and you're set. I wear Vans Ultrarange EXO's quite often on my flats and I own Five Ten freeriders but the Vans are just as good.đ€Ł
The whole point was you could use any flat shoe ,if you went down the route of using a mtb flat shoe you would not want to wear them in the office all day.(I use clipless on and off road)
@@arcoulant87 No the whole point was to say "blah blah clipless is the best, flats are slippy and worse". Why wouldn't you wear a MTB flat in an office.. are you wearing clipless shoes in the office fine? I've worn MTB flats all day completely fine. But the test wasn't about an office was it. It was nowhere near the settting of riding to an office. Nice mute point.
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the paint job on that Canyon?
Spd all the way, you can walk with them too.
On paper sure, but I at least find road pedals to be much more comfortable on long rides due to the larger contact area between the shoe and the pedal.
Yeah, walk like a duck. :-)
Aye walk like a shart happened đ€đđ
SPD double-sided pedal! Clip in when you want, ride in trainers when you want, that's the way to go!
Those are what I use on my winter bike.
Guys this is the 4th Clipless vs. Flat video you do, after the actual laboratory test of Simon and Lloyd when flats showed to be more efficient. Get some proper grippy high-end flats and some stiff shoes. You always do high-end clipless vs. cheap shitty flats+snickers. Do also an FTP test and then we will take it seriously. It's a pity you keep on pushing this confirmation bias of clipless. Sure, better for sprinting and steep short climb. That's 1% of the riding most of us do.
The benefit of clipless pedals is that it allows you to use your two legs when accelerating and climbing, meaning twice the power. However, if you always ride on flat terrain then obviously clipless pedals aren't much relevant.
Before you ask, I use clipless pedals on my road bike and good flat pedals on my mountain bike. If I wasn't scared of falling when going downhill, I'd switch anytime to clipless pedals on my mtb too because it would make climbing much easier
@@PG-3462 I ride both systems for road and flats for commuting. There's a slightly improvement with the clipless due to the super stiff carbon sole. Except for the specific situation of short and very steep hills or sprinting, the "pulling up" doesn't help at all. It's proven time and time again by studies. In my case I ride mostly long alpine climbs of several kilometers and of course flat roads.
I have been riding road bike for 22 years using flat pedals only. They didn't mentioned though, that you should use special flat pedal shoes. They are stiffer, than regular sneakers and they have soles, that provide good grip. You are able to walk normally wearing them, in case of emergency or just to buy a snack or drink.
Or you can use mountain bike clipless shoes and walk normally
Hank said throughout the video that the benefits of clipless were in allowing up-stroke power, only for their expert to say otherwise lol. Thereâs more to it than âcircularâ pedaling, and it seems sensible that your natural technique is the best.
Yes, and the same guy (expert) said the same thing in a previous video, it counts for nothing really it's all down to your pedal stroke techniques.
3rd time you've done this test and you still haven't used appropriate pedals and appropriate shoes. What about mtb pedals with metal pins and mtb shoes. Even just some skate shoes make a huge difference over trainers... more stable and more grip.
Yep, same old tired nonsense. Fact is 20 years of clipless, I've gone flat for everything without complaint. No hate from me to anyone that wants flats or clipless. The more power with flats thing is disproven over and over as long as the rider has real experience with both. Lots of real science shows the "upstroke" power isn't real for actually propeling a bike on a road or trail.
@@4nz-nl I know nothing about a recumbent. I have looked in depth of studies, and a meta analysis of studies. Pull up power is either so trivial, or nonexistent in those studies it is considered irrelevant. If you get 300watts from upstroke, I'd love to see how you quantify it. If it is real, you may be the only person that claims this. Not even Pro Olympic sprinters have data that shows anything close to that.
Why the heck would i buy skate shoes or other specialty shoes if I weren't gonna buy clipless shoes? The whole point is to compare it to shoes we've all got, the basic trainers and basic pedals that come with the bike. It's all in good fun to compare these and make a videos. If you've already made up your mind about what special shoes you're gonna wear, then what does it matter to you? You looking for confirmation bias or something?
@@AlazlamDurai How does it make sense to use my grandma's tennis shoes with department store plastic pedals and compare it (over and over) to $150+ clipless shoes and speciality pedals? We all use specific specialized equipment, so if it is really an apples to apples comparative test they need to get it right. You can ride to the cafe in whatever you want, just don't make a video about it and call it scienceish.
@@adaycj To be fair, that's basically exactly my situation. My stock flats are wearing out and getting slippery in the wet. I want to know if clipless pedals are worth it over just using my everyday shoes and flat pedals.
I use Shimano pedals that are flat one side and clipless the other while wearing Shimano shoes where the cleats do not protrude from the sole. They work very well in town, off road, up hills and long rides. Best combination in my view.
This! I have Shimano A520's on my road bike. I got them for a different bike I was sharing with my son, and when I got another bike (n+1) I put them on that one, even though it came with DuraAce pedals. Mostly because I'm cheap, and road shoes are expensive đ
Snap! SPD on one side, flat on the other. The perfect combination!
I had the SPD one side and flat other side on my MTB years ago thinking it would be perfect. However the flat side would slice my leg every once in a while and they were quite fiddly so ditched them. Can walk fine in my SPD shoes seeing as the cleat is recessed.
Yep. I live in the city so perfect for traffic lights every hundred yards. Then clip in once I get outta town.
Same, I use a520's for touring. Shoes are very walkable. I even forgot to change to normal walking shoes when I tried climbing up a set of 200step stairs up a mountain shrine lol. (was a bit sketchy but its fine if you're careful)
The flat pedal side is small, but useable in high traffic/short ride bursts.
WAIT, wasn't the argument for clipless and "full pedal rotation power" myth debunked years ago???
The benefit of being clipped in is that you can lift your trailing foot without fear of it losing contact with the pedal. So you are not having to put extra effort into the leading pedal to push the trailing pedal up against your trailing foot.
When I had not long had my road bike, I was sprinting at the start of my local little hill, standing up in the pedals and leaning forward. My foot slipped off the pedal, I sat on the crossbar, weaving out of control across the road, and luckily I was able to get my shoulder down before I hit the kerb, and there was no other traffic about. That was enough to put me off standing up on the pedals, not change to clipped-in.
I think there is barely a difference in a steady fast ride. The difference comes in at sprints and max efforts in general.
Right? Didn't this channel debunk this myth in a laboratory? I guess their clipless sponsors didn't like it. đ€·
By GCN themselves in a dedicated video!
Ask a rider who has only one leg.
Pedals with pins and a wide base plus soft soled shoes are a game changer. Foot never slips even in the rain. Its not something I worry about about anymore.
Really, you ought to do this test with a proper set of flats and shoes (equivalent value to your regular clipless setup).
"Your foot can slip around and slip off." Not with the right combination of flat pedal and shoe, in my opinion, even if it may not look very 'pro'. Decent flats with pins form a very secure interface with the right type of shoe while also giving you freedom to adjust your position on long rides; win.
Using the upstroke has very little benefit to anyone who isn't a track sprinter or capable of putting out monster watts, given that somewhere in the region of 97% of your power comes from the downstroke. Again, a good flat pedal will allow you to utilise a little bit more of the circle than a basic one to get some of that 'circular' motion into your pedalling and smooth out your action (ask those mtb'ers who have 'so much control' on flats).
Of course, it will never be cool or acceptable in the world of club rides etc.
I'm 265 lbs and very fit.
I'd like to see anyone out pedal me.
Flat pedals of course.
Boom.
Shots fired đ€Ł
Ive been on a GCN binge since I found this channel. Entertaining and informative content guys! Especially Hank, Manon, Ollie and Simon. Youre great guys
If memory serves GCN carried out a similar clipless verses flats test some years ago using SI as the guinea pig, albeit on an indoor trainer in a lab. The test showed that there was no measurable distinction between the two methods.
Last time GCN did this on a treadmill thing , with all things being equal there was not much difference between them!
you made the same video countless times yet never tested with actual quality flat pedal shoes and pedals with adjustable pins
Came here to say the same. Useless video, as it wasnât even entertaining either. Filler material.
Seriously. 100% accurate. In actual fact, the published scientific literature finds virtually no difference between the two. And the notion that we pull up when pedaling is complete bullocks
Where them foot straps at too.
@@hobbs2005 for the average cyclist or commuter they won't make much difference but for a racer the stiffer sole on the shoe and the connection to the bike can give marginal gains in saving watts
i agree. pointless video
Well, ive seen 2 dead people on clipless pedals because of that embarassing fall, but then there were trucks behind, so they got rolled over. they might be newbies on clipless or even a seasoned one where they just forgot to unclip because of the situation, maybe traffic, a vehicle in front suddenly stopped etc. so for me flat pedals with bball or vans or chuck taylor shoes. most of those are stiff at the bottom
You simply need to adapt the force needed so that the clips release your shoes. If you do alpine skiing, it's the same principle: when you fall, your boots get out of the clips automatically.
I had fits and starts with clipless but now I love them. And now, Iâm going to go load your app!
Not much of a test, when the testers are clearly biased from the start.
But there is nothing new or surprising in the results.
Do you work for a flat peddle manufacturer?
@@MiscellaneousYou Absolutely not :-D
Have three bikes. One with flat pedals, one with Exustar clipless and one with KCNC clipless.
@@iberiksoderblom Why are you complaining then?
@@MiscellaneousYou stop yourself, kid.
@@MiscellaneousYou Stop your nonsense now. Please.
Can we all take a sec and appreciate the nice cut with the high-five?
Compare with good quality flats and leather toe straps next time, rather than the cheapest flat pedals (and soft trainers) you can find.
same thought here
If you are going through the effort of getting toe clips, higher quality flats, and better shoes, might as well just use clip less.
@@vrius3335 I've used toes straps for years. I imagine clipless would be more secure (though I do tighten the straps sometimes) but being able to wear ordinary leather cycling shoes is a big advantage.
SPD for me. I'm old enough that I started with non clipless, IOW toe clips and straps with cycling cleats. Clips and slot cleats were standard well into the mid 80s. Nice to be able to walk with SPD. RE the study, well done. The upstroke was even more important back when gearing was much more limited.
I get grilled for it a lot, but Flat Pedals everywhere, all the time. I haven't used clipless for nearly a decade, and my life has been much easier for it, but yeah my performance isn't the best either now đ
Used to ride clipless, but I ditched them when I started riding more in the city. I use Nike basketball shoes with no padding and a stiff footplate, and the pins on the pedals have square, sharp edges. Peace of mind is worth giving up a little power.
3:18 Best sound to start my day off :D
Been riding since 1983, have a fleet of 9 bikes, all have flat or toeclips. They work just fine.
i use clipless left and flat pedal right, so i get the best of both worlds.
But what about shoes?
Alright you win the craziest setup haha. I'm good with just flat and I can have matching shoes đ
I switched to flat pedals mostly for safety reasons many years ago when I used to bike about 84 km a day in the rut an potholed infested streets of Montreal, and I never looked back. After 4 or 5 weeks you body get acclimatized and you power with confidence. I love your "scientific" experiments with you tongue in the cheek British humor (confirmation bias anybody). Not all flat pedals are the same and neither are the shoes you choose to wear with them; it takes time and experimentation to find the right combo, but when you do you and your bike become one again. Cheers
Gone back to flat pedals as clipping out really screwed up my knee ligaments.
Also thigh cramp in both legs at the same time and trying to clip out with a car behind you is not recommended.
Ow, that sounds painful! Hope the flats helps out!
Yep đ no knee pain any more and no ligament issues.
@@nickporter3531 I went back to flats because of some knee issues too, good flats are great, especially if - like me - your power numbers are nothing to write home about. Knee has definitely improved since having that freedom of movement though
Shimano has the yellows with more travel
I feel like they wrote the conclusion first "... and therefore clipless pedals are better", and from there worked towards the result.
Many of us cyclists have to deal with stuff. Imagine a very narrow road, and almost never there's anything and then suddenly a HUGE tractor or truck comes from the other side, you go into panic mode, recover, break hard, through the grass bumps, maybe you need to put foot on ground. Then flat pedals are way safer.
Or imagine you follow a hard sand path through the woods, but last week the wind was hefty and some trees cover the entire track. So, you would have to unclip, walk a bit, climb and pull bike over the tree etc. Such a test wasn't included.
Or imagine you have a small window of oppurtunity to cross a very busy road. Flat pedals push you the first 5 meters so much faster then click or clip pedals.
Now some of these scenarios are a bit difficult to simulate and measure. And it's not that click-pedals are bad (they are awesome and make you faster under good circumstances as shown) but when the going gets tough, pedals win, and might be life-savers.
Just went SPD clipless on my gravel bike and today on my second ride with them managed a fastest ever average speed (about 5% improvement) for a regular route. Love the feeling of clipless when out the saddle and general stability.
Clipless on the fancy road bike and flats with straps on the single speed steel. I get very similar stats from both.
If I cared about speed and maximum efficiency, Iâd definitely go for clipless. Iâd have also gone for full lycra and an expensive race bike. But I just want to ride and Iâm happy with the way things are right now.
I grew into cycling with toe clips and at 74 years old they still are my choice (ALONG WITH STIFF SOLED CYCLING SHOES) as an in between option. Feet are stable, I get out quickly, and still have power.
I'd really love to see something like this comparing clipless with a good set of grippy MTB flat shoes and flat pedals with pins like the Raceface Chester or Deity Deftrap. I'm curious about clipless but I've been doing pretty well so far using a pair of Deftraps so far, they grip extremely well even on the backstroke..
I think that the test is quite flawed cause of the good old placebo effect. You 'knew' that flats where slower so you put less power consciously or sub. It would be better if you got somebody who doesn't know the difference.
There is a massive problem with this test, they don't even use the right equipment. You could clearly see that the Clipless pedals + Shoes we see here could cost up to 200 bucks or even more. So why does GCN use pedals that are:
A. Small
B. Cheap
C. Not grippy.
You could buy a proper flat pedal for 50 bucks and have a really good one. Big, reliable and light (330g). Then the footwear, come one man what are those? Normal sneakers? I would not even want to run with that poor equipment if I do it regularly. Get proper flat pedal shoes, cost starting at 70 for a okay one. What makes them special? Lower profile and guess what, stiffness! Who had guess it that a floppy shoe will make your power transfer bad?
AND the most crucial thing but that's out of the question for RBikes, wide bars. There is a video from a dude challenging a pro TDF to a sprint. He only had a old Swiss Army Bike from 1910 in top conditions and the TDF pro had his actually TDF bike ready. They did it in 2009 @ Freiburg (Germany) for a popular German show. The TDF pro lost by 3 seconds. You need a wide bar to leverage your flat pedals properly.
@@Vanadium FWIW, I agree; they should really test this three ways: the 'starter' kit, a decent pair of flat pedals and bike shoes, and the clipless set-up. Even though I prefer to be clipped in, I bet there would not be nearly as much difference between the two 'upgrades'.
Side note: not wanting to be a grammar nazi, but... a bug is an insect; a buck is a dollar.
@@dlevi67 well thanks for that.
Well whatever suits you I would say.
To force anything on anyone is just bad. But proper equipment is just so much better.
@@Vanadium Yep. Happy and safe riding! It's a lovely day out here (West of London), and I think I'll go for a ride!
@@dlevi67 Strictly speaking, that's vocabulary, not grammar.
I'm new to clipless pedals. Toppled several times on my first day. Sometimes I want to drop my left foot but my body leant to the right with my right foot still clipped in. At first, I surprised about how hard it was to unclip even with lightest tension, but now I'm starting to get used to it, and I have used it for everyday commuting since Monday. This Sunday will be my first 100k ride with clipless, I hope i can make it.
Did you make it?
â@@blo0dstrike He's still out there! Search party needed.
I'm new to cycling (3-4 months) and been riding a 2nd hand road bike with flats and a pair of Vans (I didn't know about other types)...
Ordered SPDs and a pair of Fizik SPD shoes last week and I'M SO EXCITED!
same here! Have been riding a road bike with flats for a month, and last week upgraded to clipless. The workouts and efforts I used to do before, during which I literally cried in pain, now feel much easier, plus the confidence of having my feet planted to the pedals is great.
I used to ride with the traditional toe clips from the mid '70s but sometime during the last 20 year (I don't even remember anymore when that was) I had the courage to try Shimano SPD pedals with very well fitting Shimano shoes and there was simply no turning back. I still have not had any accidents with the SPD pedals. Although I don't pull up with my other foot my feet are always in the correct position. BTW, in my language (Finnish) the toe clips are called "toe hooks" (varvaskoukut) and the clipless pedals are called "lock pedals" (lukkopolkimet).
I do commute in trainers and I do catch my heels on the chainstays at times as my trainers are so wide đ
Also Mannon joked about riding in high heals, just thinking would that even be possible? New challenge for hank đ
The test was to see with which pedals you can produce the most power. Both presenters rarely got out of the saddle on flats. This will skew the results.
Oh.. !!!! This is the most helpful video I've ever watched!!!!
Thanks you sooooooo much!!!!!
After switching from clipless to flat pedals on my mountain bike, out of curiosity I tried them on my gravel bike, which gets ridden about 50% on paved roads. After getting used to it I didn't find them very different from clipless. This was, however, with a *quality* flat pedal (Race Race Chesters) and a flat-pedal specific bike shoe (Five Ten Freeriders). This is a very different thing than riding department store bike pedals in running shoes. With a proper shoe the pins lock the sole in place and you can't move your foot at all without lifting it.
A proper mountain bike flat pedal/shoe combination is very secure -- it is possible to bunny hop a bike with flat pedals after all. In *most* situations I suspect it's not intrinsically much less efficient than clipless; maybe sprinting. Most of the time riders don't really fully unweight their trailing foot on the upstroke, even if it feels like you are pulling up. A mountain flat shoe wins the ease of walking contest hands down over any other kind of bike shoe.
I think that on a bike that is ridden mainly as utility transportation, most riders would be perfectly happy with a *good* flat pedal, especially given the flexibility of being able to ride with either bike shoes or street shoes. A mountain flat pedal setup is perfectly viable for many gravel riders, although I've switched back to SPD (2 bolt). I already have the shoes and pedals and I'm used to them.
What I'd really like to see is SPD (2 bolt) vs SPD-SL (3 bolt). I suspect the difference between those is tiny, and SPD is much easier to walk in.
It would be interesting to see how you did on a real pair of mtb flats with pins rather than a cheap plastic pair.
It won't change anything. The benefit of clipless pedals is that it allows you to use your two legs when accelerating and climbing, meaning twice the power.
Before you ask, I use clipless pedals on my road bike and good flat pedals on my mountain bike. If I wasn't scared of falling when going downhill, I'd switch anytime to clipless pedals on my mtb too because it would make climbing much easier
Until GCN can find a sponsor who makes flat pedals they will continue to go with clipless pedals every single time. Clipless pedals are responsible for countless injuries all for the potential savings of a few seconds on a ride. A sprint is about the only place where you will see any gains for clipless and that's more about being anchored to the pedal rather than any benefit to the action. Try the same test over an hour ride and there will be no difference. Or try the same test over some stop/start style riding like on a commute.
GMBN have a sponsor who makes both flats and clipless pedals in high-end models.
I broke my damn wrist using clipless pedals. Had a mechanical issue on my bike and couldn't get my feet out quick enough to save myself.
After 3 months of road biking every day after work and weekends, I'm ready to make the switch to clipless. Today I'm headed to the shop to get them installed and then off to the grassy park to practice!!! So excited!! Going for Shimano mountain biking system. Thanks for the video Ollie is so handsome!!!
I never used road bike clips but started with mountain bike clips and shoes. when I tried road bike shoes on with clips installed, I felt unstable when walking or standing and did not like the feeling, so I tried mountain bike shoes and felt a lot better in support and walking. I love my setup and it works for me. plus, I was ridding mountain bikes at the time and using the same setup was cheaper and mor convenient.
You should also have serious flat pedal riders do the same test. Both presenters are normally clipless riders, so...
I've ridden multiple 300+km rides with 2-4000m of elevation. Flat pedals are the only thing I've ever ridden and the only thing I will ever ride. And while I'm not a pro cyclist, I don't exactly consider myself a beginner, either. Especially since I've been riding for the past 10 years and the last 6 or so have seen around 6-8000km per year.
There is nothing wrong with flat pedals and people trying to push clipless as the best thing since sliced bread make me angry. Then make me laugh. In this order.
That was very well done! Definitely headed in the right direction --- Most informative; now, about which pedals are best for touring...
First I've seen Manon's watts... beast mode! Well done!
Quite a one sided test there guys.
You used the crappiest pair of $10 plastic pedals. why not use some decent ones on par wit the quaility of clip pedals you used ? Try using some proper
flat mountain bike pedals with actual pins in them. Talk with the guy form GMBN for goodness sake. Mountain bikers often use clips as well.
But if you are riding gravel, mixed terrain, making stops, or don't want to wear super expensive elf twinkle shoes. You can wear running shoes with a nice stiff platform.
I know this is a channel for roadies - but lets not try to be so dense.
Do you work for a flat peddle manufacuter?
Would be good to see someone who uses flat pedals try clipless and compare. Could be a case of what are you used too.
I use clipless pedals on my road bike and good flat pedals on my mountain bike. If I wasn't scared of falling when going downhill, I'd switch anytime to clipless pedals on my mtb too because it would make climbing much easier
The benefit of clipless pedals is that it allows you two use both legs when climbing and accelerating, but also to alternate between pushing down and pulling up on your pedals which is quite nice on long rides
I started on flats with BMX in 1980. When I got my first road style bike had toe clips and since then I have tried multiple types and brands of clipless. I have wide, flat, flipper feet and a bum knee. For my needs large flat platforms like the Crankbrothers Stamp models work best.
Depends on the purpose. When purpose may be dual - like for a touring bike, combination pedals exist. For the touring bike I built from scratch last year, knowing that I may need dual use pedals, I used Shimano Deore XT PD-T800, the best quality in my opinion in that segment. On one side they have SPD cleats and on the other a very good platform for ordinary shoes (with very little interference with cleated shoes if you happen to use them on that side with cleated shoes). Best of both worlds...
I think you should compare the flats to clipless while both wearing bowling shoes. That would show a more fair "bias". A more fair test would be using quality flats with quality flat bike shoes and not the crap shown here for flat equipment. I think time of a few years will not be kind to this video. I own both and use flats on bikes and clipless only for short spin class.
7th time making this video and not once used a decent flat pedal with pins. There has been studies done that show there is a minimal difference in efficiency and power between flats and clips
And they should use special flat pedal shoes, not regular sneakers.
I use pedals that are one side SPD on my commuter/hybrid bike. I quite often wear mountain bike shoes with a significant tread so I can walk around in them reasonably comfortably and they look like sports shoes rather than cycle shoes. And yes, I use SPD touring pedals on my road bike as the extra watts/weight/rules don't concern me.
âm using both SPD and LOOK (similar to SPD-SL) across 3 of my bikes. When I got my Scott Foil in 2021, I started it with SPD for first 500km and subsequently changed to LOOK pedal with a pair of carbon sole GIRO road shoes.
After cycling on this bike for 10000km, I changed the LOOK road pedal to a pair of SPD pedals, using Shimano 3 hole converter ESMSH40 SPD cleat adaptor on the same pair of GIRO road shoes 2 days ago. I absolutely do not experience/feel that there is any loss of power delivery to pedal stroke, instability, or tighter clip in or whatever.
In fact I was happy that I can walk normally now when I use my other pair of XC SPD shoes
Flat for me donât want to carry another shoe to work is the main reason lol
Yep. Why I put flats on my commuter. Takes me a little while to remember to not pull up on climbs if I don't ride it for a while though.
Clipless Pedals
"Once you clip-in, you could never clip-out"
Lol
Until you fall đ€Łđ€Ł
Hotel Clipifornia?
On a road bike sure, on mtb not so much
thats how you fall over at a traffic light. :D
I had shimano M324s put on our tandem with a view to eventually getting my partner (and rear rider) to go clipless. One day she finally gave it a go and before we had even gone half a mile she was amazed at how different it felt. It also felt much smoother for me on the front. I've no idea what our power output is like, but with us both clipped in it feels great working together plus she has less chance of getting smacked in the shin when we get "too spinny" (I'm a spinner, she's a grinder - we're learning to compromise).
FWIW M324s absolutely kill when you wang your shin on them. Ouchies!!
I run flats, I want to try clipless at some point but having to wear special shoes would get in the way. Noting that my bike's built less for speed, more for all weather city (rain, sleet, snow/ice, etc.) where it's nice to be able to step off without notice
Lmao the way Manon laughed at 3:17
I couldnât imangine going on my road bike without clipless peddles but I also couldnât imagine going on a mountain bike without flat peddles as the terrain is so different I would want to confidence to bail of my bike if I hit a hill wrong
Use decent flat pedals and wear bike specific flat shoes. I've never slipped off a proper flat pedal in any weather and with the right shoe you can even pull up (though the benefits of this are probably more psychological). If you had more confidence in the shoe the power output would be higher. That's not to say clipless are bad, but I don't think they are the amazing upgrade people say they are.
It would be sick if they could compare clipless, toe clips and mtb flats. Iâm new to cycling but started the transition via toe clip. I was a currier for a while so need to be quick but also needed to get off the bike a lot. I was also flat broke and couldnât afford clipless pedals and shoes
What I find is that I pedal with a much lower cadence and more force when on flats, I guess because that makes it easier to maintain contact with the pedals. I also place my foot more centered on the pedal, whereas with spd the contact point is more towards the front.
There is a massive problem with this test, they don't even use the right equipment. You could clearly see that the Clipless pedals + Shoes we see here could cost up to 200 bugs or even more. So why does GCN use pedals that are:
A. Small
B. Cheap
C. Not grippy.
You could buy a proper flat pedal for 50 bugs and have a really good one. Big, reliable and light (330g). Then the footwear, come one man what are those? Normal sneakers? I would not even want to run with that poor equipment if I do it regularly. Get proper flat pedal shoes, cost is starting at 70 for a okay one. What makes them special? Lower profile and guess what, stiffness! Who had guess it that a floppy shoe will make your power transfer bad?
AND the most crucial thing but that's out of the question for RBikes, wide bars. There is a video from a dude challenging a pro TDF for a sprint. He only had a old Swiss Army Bike from 1910 in top conditions and the TDF pro had his actually TDF bike ready. They did it in 2009 @ Freiburg (Germany) for a popular German show. The TDF pro lost by 3 seconds. You need a wide bar to leverage your flat pedals properly.
The professionell rider hasn't clips too in this show.
That is why I don't use flats, I prefer to spin at 100-130 or so. (I'm a skinny marathon runner type, my power is more horsepower vs torque if that makes any sense). That gets whack on flats. If I liked to ride at 70-80 rpm I'd just use flats.
@@davethedogdude 110 rpm actually isnt that fast. That's my normal cadence on heavy MTBs and the commuter, both flat's. Did you ever see a BMX race? 160 and beyond and they are NOT clipped in, it is even banned by the UCI. Work on your technique, I am also capable of that and I am not a pro or BMX dude.
@@Vanadium I should try with good grippy flat pedals and shoes. My bike is geared on the spinney side, so I will hit 160 sprinting as well. But I don't think I would want to try that on flats and have my feet slip off and get whacked by the pedals (I'm older and easy to injure these days then when I was young enough to play with BMX dudes), so I'd only be comfortable with it if I knew for sure I wasn't going to slip. My normal cadence is really anywhere between 100-130 with ~110 being about the sweet spot, but I have a wide range that I'm OK with, I just really don't like to grind.
Does pulling up on the pedals really help produce more power? You guys should do a test where you only pull up while cycling, and see the amount of work you generate.
Pulling up has been completely debunked. It's all about power on the downstroke and unweighting on the upstroke.
Too many people put pressure on others to ride clipless when they're not ready or hesitant. I ended up breaking my hip in a tipover on my road bike three years ago, and I'm never going back to clipless. Clipless pedals also bring in a mental strain of worrying about what is happening with your feet, akin almost to what happens when walking on icy ground. If you just want to enjoy your ride, go with flats. For racing, sure, go with clipless. Also, there are cycling shoes that you can wear with flats, as I do. You just don't put cleats in. Giro makes some wonderful shoes that can be changed to SPD's if you really want to, but you can also leave the wedge in and have them look like Skechers.
I've got Crank Bros Stamp 3s on my commuter/gravel bike. They grip like mad. Downside - I ride in sturdy hiking shoes with inserts, and I still get pain and numbness b/c the shoes just aren't structured or padded where they need to be - where they contact the pedal. The aggressive pedals seem to make the pain a little worse. The other drawback of the super-grippy platform pedals for daily use is the amount of skin off my shins they've taken when maneuvering myself on and around the bike (loading panniers, starting off at an intersection). I'm going to try two-hole pedals and cross-country mountain bike shoes. Comments re circular powerstroke - for non-competitive cyclists, there's no gain from the upstroke. Competition cyclists have generally been shown to just mash the pedals when they're going hard, too. If you're trying to get every edge you can to win a race for money, I'll wager clipless will nudge you past platforms or all the Tour riders would be on platforms.
Flat pedals for the commute. Clipless for everything else.
That is why I use hybrid Shimano T pedals
You have done this challenge with two people that perfer using Clipless pedals. If you want to do this test properly do this test with one of you prsenters and someone who prefer flats and is use to them.
Maybe you might convert someone.
The test is based on sprinting and sprinting uphill, the key is, if you want speed and efficient power useage clipless is the only way to go, otherwise you can use flat pedal and a sandal.
my first SPD's are in the mail so i'm about to discover the difference.. what finally convinced me was my falling apart pedal had tape wrapped around it and got sticky, and when i was doing long gentle climbs i instinctively used the glue's grip to exert some up-pulling force which seemed to result in a decent boost of extra wattage
Was there any difference?
@@bryanotero123 I've now put a few dozen miles on and they're pretty great.. I don't understand how so many vids incl GCNs say clip pedals aren't more efficient
I commute and gravel in Madrid with flats...and " taco " shoes..( vibram )...It really works.
âScienceâ with N=2 and presenter biased in favor of one alternative. What could possibly go wrong?
I have tried clipless pedals, not impressed.
I use hope f20 flat pedals and fiveten freerider shoes on all my bikes now.
Yup
I use xpedo spry and Shimano GR8 on my road bike, Michelin rubber is not as sticky as 5/10 but is a bit more durable per my experience, and never had a slip...
You should test Five Ten Flat pedal shoes with high end flat pedal, such as Stamp 7 or DMR Vault, and see what's the result.
I use SPD clipless but I think it would be more fair if you used peddles with lugs like good mountain bike peddles. They'll also have better bearings helping with the numbers.
The cleats wear out quite quickly, i reckon a good rider could be as good on flat pedals, plus more practical
The shoes you wear make a huge difference.
double or triple that hill, I cycle them several times a day on flat pedals for years and I still could not get used to the steep hills, out of breath every time. Made me quite interested to try clipless pedals. (I have a hybrid with heavy wheels and a panier bag always full) Thank you for the video
On this occasion, not a good comparison for the reasons that many have pointed out. What surprised me a lot was the researcher explaining that using the upstroke wasn't advantageous - a point that is often made as the advantage of clipless pedals. Have to say that as well as using poor trainers and flat pedals, Hank and Manon were also clearly determined that the clipless pedals would be the best. This leads us to wonder whether they really put the same effort in for both cases. This kind of preset bias is a killer for any experiment. Otherwise, we love GCN so keep up the (almost all) great videos!!!
Flats all the way. Way more practical, look better and the difference in performance is minimal.
El Cheapo poor quality flat pedals you used perform way worse than the quality MTB ones.
Didn't the pedaling power of flats vs clipless pedals being significantly different get debunked?
Flats are safer and more practical for urban, stop and go traffic style riding imo. Putting max power to the pedals is less a concern when dealing with traffic.
Can we just say that every single gcn presenter is absolutely brilliant at what they do. And the Manon is the best!
Love the transition to hanks max power test!
The embarrassing falls, scratched break levers, paint-stripped derailleurs and bursted saddles are definitely worth the increase in performance. I give 10/10 possible scratched bikes! đŽ
To be honest, our bikes are more important to us than our own skin.
Might the results be different if the rider in the test normally uses flats?
First year cycling I used nice flats with good quality shoes on a nice Diverge pro bike. After the first year I found I was constantly adjusting my feet and looking for that ideal foot/pedal connection. I was apprehensive about clipless but decided Iâd give it a try. I got a pair of S-Works shoes and Shimano pedals and instantly felt the advantage and started breaking my previous best efforts on Strava. Thereâs no way Iâd go back to flats FWIW