How They Did It - Prisons in Ancient Rome DOCUMENTARY
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2020
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What was it like to go to prison in ancient Rome? In this history documentary we begin with an overview of how prisons were present since the earliest civilizations but did not function the same as today. Justice did not involve locking people up. Rather, justice was built around the idea of vengeance and the philosophy of "an eye for an eye". In this context, prisons served merely as temporary holding cells while people awaited trial or their punishment.
In ancient Rome we see this with the Mamertine prison which was built during the early monarchy. Consisting of a small dungeon, it never saw widespread use and was instead reserved for mostly high profile figures like war captives. Notable prisoners include Vercingetorix, Simon Gioras, and the Catiline Conspirators. During the late Republic however the demand for prisons increased as reforms to the criminal justice system meant more people were going to court. More public prisons were built as well as growing trend in private prisons. During the transition to the Roman Empire however the consolidation of power prompted a crackdown against private prisons and shifting the focus back to public prisons. These would continue to see use a temporary holdings cells but now also housed enemies of Rome. For the most part however, corporal punishment still remained the norm. This trend would continue through the medieval era and its only with the age of Enlightenment that we start to see justice systems shift to mass incarceration as the preferred vessel for justice.
Bibliography and suggested readings:
The Oxford History of the Prison
Penal Practice and Penal Policy in Ancient Rome
Crime and Punishment in Ancient Rome
Prison, Punishment, and Penance in Late Antiquity
The Cambridge Companion to Roman Law
#History
#Documentary
Definitely check out the rest of our Law & Order in Ancient Rome series for the full view of this fascinating subject: czcams.com/play/PLkOo_Hy3liEI9UdgTyxSrJuzcKQFd9cgY.html
Do you recommend reading "The Armies of Ancient Persia: the Sassanians"? If yes could you please tell me if you know any other book, which provides much information about persian and parthian empires?
@Invicta
Great video, could you guys please do a video on the training and qualifications of career officers, such as Optios and Centurians in the Roman Army?
@@arshiatn2895 Its a really detailed book on the subject that will be a great reference. Unfortunately we don't know as much about the persian armies from earlier periods so I can't make any recommendations
Can you please make a video about "how Roman Empire Romanized non-Latin speaking locals of the Empire" such as Gauls, Iberians, Dacians, Dalmatians, Etruscans, North Africans and etc
I've studied Roman law in law school (I'm not from the US), and I can tell you, 99% of crimes ended up with reparations and additional fines, as was established by the Lex Aquila. For instance, if I were to end a slave's life, i would have to pay the owner the highest price that slave could have had in the last year, if I did it intentionally, twice that price.
Interesting when you compare it to Americas slave system. As much as some try to deny it, it was a crime punishable by imprisonment, fines, or at worse, death, for murdering a slave here. Romes slave system basically just fined you.
@@alexporter7379 Well it's mainly because the Romans had to make sense of their legal system. As slaves were "things" (latin res) and not people (latin persona), they had the same regulation as other things: you break something that it not yours, you have to pay the owner its cost.
Of course later on during the Empire laws were passed to prevent cruel treatment not only of slaves, but also of family, because the Paterfamilias could inflict whatever punishment he deemed necessary.
The example I gave was of someone else killing the slave, not the owner. In practice it was not well seen to mistreat slaves (customs and traditions "consuetudo" were a source of law). Also, they were really really expensive. You cant just injure your own slave, it's gonna cost you a fortune in trestment.
@@aero2486 and that's what I find to be absolutely fascinating. Rome was the basis of America's legal system, and we (attempted) to take a different route than the Romans, only to come to the same conclusion eventually. Granted our founding fathers lived in a different time, but still, it's absolutely fascinating to me.
@@alexporter7379 During the glory days of the empire laws were passed which prohibited cruel trearment of one's slave. That was mostly because up to Caesars time, slaves were really expensive, so no one would risk crippling a slave, or even mistreating one. Eventually people could buy more slaves and their prices went down, so the relationship with their owners became more impersonal and they became more replacable. That's why in imperial times they punished cruel treatment of one's own slaves.
@Peter Laughton
Isn't the human trafficking in eastern Europe slavery like or sometines downright slavery?
I will never look at radishes the same way again.
Fair
FOR SALE : cheap chocolate covered radishes.
I just started watching the video so I have no idea what you're talking about and now I'm scared
*looks at the half-eaten radish
Lol.. wonder how many would choose that over jail today
2:13 If you think about it, imprisonment as punishment for kidnapping is really an extension of the "eye for an eye" mentality. You took away someone's freedom by kidnapping them, thus your punishment is to have your own freedom taken away
Like, maaaaan.
Bad pleb, bad pleb
what will you do when the centurions come for you?
lone akmoperator reminded me of my childhood watching this on tv
Seppuku
Distract them with a flashlight and make a break for the time machine.
more like the urban cohorts
“Nobody don’t give me no break
Vigiles don’t give me no break”
The Roman Guide to Slave management translated by Jerry Toner is amazing.
It’s not a translation, it’s pure fiction
@@markuspfeifer8473 Is it a novel?
Lets not forget serious crimes but not too serious for capital punishment committed by young Roman citizens had the option to serve to the Legions for full term
sooo... they had to few murderes to fill the ranks..
Also, a such person, is likely cut out to be willing to do whats needed in battle
@@chalsfo ı mean they have experience in killing so
It's not so much about murderers beingg a good fit for the army. In fact, criminality generally indicates a tendency towards insubordination. The reason that criminals are allowed to join any armed force is that military life sucks. It's just awful, even in the modern day. So if you're short on bodies to fill out the line, you can offer a choice. "Would you rather starve in a dungeon or march up to 20 miles with 50 pounds of gear and be beaten for failing your tasks?" Maybe 5 years of Legionary bullshit sounds a little better than 5 years in prison. Maybe it doesn't. Either way, you can keep your numbers up.
@@colinsanders9397 there is fresh air and action too, inc coitus
Colin Sanders that’s a solid way to put it. Some may prefer to stay in prisons, and I would imagine some did. While others probably thought some spoils of war could be made in the end.
Imma pick your brain, cuz I know little about Rome/Roman Army
If I was arrested for let’s say multiple thefts and a beating. They give me the option to fight in the legions. I take the offer. If I show my worth on the battlefield, or do something courageous, would I be able to then expunge that criminal record after my service? Would I be able to get out after some time? Be a citizen again?
"eye for an eye" is not a statement of vengeance but a stipulation that the punishment should fit the crime, i.e., be reasonable. It's the most misunderstood part of ancient law I've ever seen.
And also, it was normally at the time a limit on the retribution not the minimum. If a person even in 1920 could be lynched for mere rumours of raping someone, then an eye for an eye seems quite reasonable to social reformers back then.
"Eye for an eye" And an everlasting cycle of vengeance that never ends is the same (humans still can't learn to forgive someone.) because rather than helping them. they instead make their suffering multiply. :'v
@@nasheldimas4339 "eye for an eye" has nothing to do with vengeance, unless you're trying to make a case that any sort of judicial punishment is vengeance.
@@justinwbohner like this if you kill someone child accidentally. What "eye for an eye" penalty you received? kill you're own child! That a disgusting *bronze age* do it
@@nasheldimas4339 You are free to re-read (or perhaps just read for the first time) the books of Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The practical applications are covered there. Hope this helps.
And remember, nobody starts stoning until I blow the whistle. Even if the do say "JEHOVA."
Who are the "do"?
@@sunnyjim1355 Mystical sect from ancient Iudaea. With obvious blessing of the *redacted* because their member survived not only stoning, but gladiatorial combat. As shown in completely historically accurate documentary, "Life of Brian." =D
He said it!
*throwing starts*
Oh...yes. Life of Brian...
Another top quality video exploring the nuanced history of life in antiquity. Thank you Invicta!
Glad you enjoyed! I'm loving how we have a whole series on Law & Order in Ancient Rome which all build upon on another nicely and present a holistic picture of the past!
how did you manage to post this 1 minute into the lifetime of a 12 minute video lmao
*R A D I S H S O D O M Y* just let that set in man......
Gabriel Fung I’m sure they’d have preferred that to having it shoved right in!
Would you prefer it well buttered, citizen? :)
How'd they even come up with that
@@pleasant_asymmetry Probably similar principle to the Hammurabi code which ascribed punishments similar to the crime committed.
I bet it would it be more painful if the skins of the radishes were peeled off.
You never hear Goku wishing his Brother back to life.
This has got to be one of my favorite history series to date
Glad to hear it! We have a few more episodes in the Law & Order series before we move on to another theme
The series of law on ancient history are awesome
So much history so little time. Luckily we have people like you to digest it and give us a simplified version. Thank you for the work that you do, you were a huge influence on why I started my channel.
Good on you man! I'm guessing you are a fan of Indy Neidell aswell.
@@DATA-qt3nb Yes I am. I'm really a fan of all the online history channels and a hatter of the one on tv
Remember when you’re in the public baths at Roman prison, don’t drop the olive oil
Or you might get your radish punishment a little early.
Albert Muriithi So sayeth Fleeceus Johnsinius, the Booty Gladiator
Always love when Pullo or Vorenus get a little nod! Great video as usual, but I'd like a follow up that examines the prison systems of other cultures between like 100 BCE and 200 CE just to see how the differ.
Pullo, formation!
Seriously this is an amazing series, and one untouched by most channels. I'm loving this.
Jesus' demand to visit prisoners makes now much more sense to me than it already did before...
@EmperorJuliusCaesar actually, the historicity of Jesus has been validated by several scholars, secular and believers alike. I encourage you to read up on it, unless it's actually you yourself being deluded by your own prejudices and personal bias. You would be using your time better in that, than picking on people that don't share your beliefs.
CHRISTIANITY MENTIONED TIP TIP M´LADY
EmperorJuliusCaesar there’s plenty of historical evidence that Jesus existed. As the other person just listed multiple sources, you refuse to acknowledge it while attacking him for not providing evidence. Stop being ignorant and accept that it’s a historical fact he existed
@@michaelalvarez2521it must be said that historical Jesus and the Jesus Christ character of the Bible are not the same thing either. No one is trying to say(atleast no one with any historical knowledge) the events of the gospels happened in order they are presented and are all true without question, they're stories and sayings and motifs and teachings and the such from a very popular Rabbi who was killed by civil authorities and his cult lived on after his death and fractured apart on the true meaning of what he thought.
That sounds far more realistic to me then people making up a person out of nowhere to create an entire religion. It's much more likely people did actually believe and it's just all been muddied since.
@EmperorJuliusCaesar
So just saying the vast majority of scholars , christian atheist muslim Buddhist or other. Agree that jesus was a real person that existed.
Now do they all agree about what he did? It if he was holy or not? That is were the disagreement really begins
From the wikipedia article on the historicity of jesus
"Most scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed."
dude, this is an amazing channel! I have always wondered many of these questions, but haven't been able to get any good quality books lately. This channel allows me to expand my knowledge of the ancient world for free, thanks!
I really enjoy your videos, thank you for making them. Really appreciate the source being listed.
The frames on this video are from the ROME tv series (2005), i rewatched it just a week ago and is superb.
Great video, as always
Loving the Total War Attila overworld theme, following the channel since way back, great work as usual, thanks for the content!
I love your content dude!! This is so cool !!
Love these videos
So interesting!
Love your videos dude keep up the good work
The artwork and illustration in this video is superb
Thank you for all your wonderful videos on Ancient Rome.
As always great stuff.
I love this channel, its so neat:D
The roman army book you had on top of the stack at the beginning was a very interesting and good read
Amazing video!
I wonder, were there any prison riots or prison breaks like we've had in the modern day?
I'm sure there must have been some but I have never heard of any. Likely during revolts though, I'm sure some prisons may have been stormed to break out political figures.
I would say there definitely would have been. Humans are the same no matter the day and age. We don’t like captivity, it’s just in our nature.
Once, this guy named Michaelus Scofieldus had the prison's blueprints tattooed on his body and got himself locked in to break out his brother Lincolnus Burrowsus.
Does the Spartacus rebellion count? He was a slave/prisoner turned gladiator who became a thorn in the side of the Romans for a brief period.
The Spartacus Rebellions involved a few prison breaks.
5:41 How little things have changed.
The bureaucracy expands, to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
Government only exists to expand itself and guarantee its own necessity.
Always look forward to your videos. This video was captivating to say the leashed. Lol
I'd like to know about the women in Rome and what they were legally allowed and not allowed to do. Were they citizens? And how they compared to other women of antiquity.
I think the women in ancient Egyptian society could inherit some of their father and mother's wealth, but in Rome women could not inherit. The foundational story of Rome is about how they were a powerful group of Incels who rapped a bunch of women they abducted from their neighbor nations/tribes/cities and the women fell in love with them so much that they begged their families to let them stay in Rome and not take revenge. A convenient story when only the men were allowed to write the history to any popular extent.
Eh, that varied. If your husband happened to die, and your father was also dead, and ideally if you had children grown up enough, you were given the most freedom a typical woman could expect to have. Vestal Virgins had nearly the same rights as a man, sometimes even more in some areas.
If you had a compassionate husband or father, who listened to you even if they didn't have to by law, then you had a keeper on your hands. Things might technically be in their name, but you could get much of what you want.
This depended on the will of another person though, and if you didn't get the right dice roll, you could be in for misery.
Fascinating look in the prison system in Ancient Rome. Maybe should try to do the same with Chinese or even Byzantine prisons. Those must have been the worst places on could imagine to be locked up in back in the day.
Nice video invicta, you think your going to do a video on how rome handleded fashion, in terms of what wire and they colored their textiles with dyes.
That would be super fascinating to do. Not sure we have that much information on it but I'll see what we can piece together.
Could you guys please do a video on the training of Optios, Centurians and other career officers?
Thank you for the "and how much further we have to go."
its funny i just got done playing Attila total war before i watched this and i thought i was going insane haha, great video!
This is you from the future, you are going insane! Beware this is just the beginning!
@@f4ptr989 Whoa, Dude.
Invicta! You should make a army rank and promtion video on Sparta, and your videod are really informal, it makes me watch them at sleep lol.
Heyoo. Love the videos and love all of you history nerds
Hi Invicta, I would like to have an episode about cuisines in Ancient Rome.
Thank you!
-Rexory -
Perfect video
Can you please make a video about "how Roman Empire Romanized non-Latin speaking locals of the Empire" such as Gauls, Iberians, Dacians, Dalmatians, Etruscans, North Africans and etc
I've worked in private prisons here in the United States, and they were all pretty terrible. They have a high rate of returnees and low rehabilitation rate due to a profit model that prioritizes keeping inmates on the inside for as long as possible, high turnover rates for staff due to them being overworked and highly underpaid, and in general the case managers and other non-custody staff members are either unqualified or simply don't care enough to do their job properly. Good on ancient Rome for keeping that out of their system.
you can't rehabilitate someone if they are with a gang, when they get out they go back to their gangs and return to criminality. you cannot solve a problem if you aren't targeting its root cause.
Problems: Gangs, broken families specifically the lack of fathers, >50% divorce rates ... also Single mother families prove to be more harmful because children without father figures are more likely to Join gangs or become criminals (not all). All these contribute to the low rehab and high returnees. America's Family system is fucked! Poverty, shitty educational system, illegal drugs also contribute to America's decline.
It's a problem that will take years or even centuries to fix. if you wanna fix it - Traditional families should return, eradicate all gangs, reduce or eradicate drug trafficking, Make education and health care cheaper and available to all but that's not gonna happen in modern day America. America is simply too big and someday it would collapse just like the Western Roman Empire did Lmao we are probably seeing the start of it now so many civil unrest with all the riots and murders on American cities. that's why America is basically a 3RD world but with a 1st world wealth and military.
Or maybe because of the lack of quick death penalty for murderers and rapists, and these types causing prisons to be not only overcrowded but also become centers where their mentality and culture is spread out. They also have too much liberty or space to do what they please inside the institutions and they basically rule those places. Under those circumstances, a low level criminal has no choice but to become a higher level criminal in order to survive in such environment.
your vids are so cool
I found the part on criminal justice in the ancient world particularly interesting. I knew in the Old Testament that restitution and capital punishment were used rather than prison systems in Israel, but I didn't know that was also the case for much of the ancient world.
EDIT: Oh yeah, news reporting and how it spread through "legitimate" sources!
Video on investigative work? Detective work, equivalent of insurance(?) evaluations, welfare policy enforcement (Cura Annonae, etc), census procedure, etc. _Anything that required legwork, law interpretation and then enforcement + documentation._
I know that's pretty broad, but the mechanics can be distilled. Love this channel so much.
5:54 - 6:18 | 9:25 - 9:39
This is literally how the modern brazilian prison system works in practice.
Total war music nice detail ! 👍👍
Is that the Rome 2: Total War map music? Excellent taste in music, gentlemen ;D
Mamertine prison is still there, pretty cool to visit
They kept vercingetorix in that hole for years???!
Thanks!
Should have opened it with the ‘Law and Order’ sound....DUNNN DUNN!
Hey when is part 2 of evolution of the Roman Legions coming? it been 4 years now and you said you will most definitely be finishing it
Please do what it was like growing up in ancient Egypt please please please
Some things have not changed. ☹️ This video is great.
Thank you for this great work
FROM ALGERIA
At the 4:30 mark, what are the two large rectangular areas that look like small airstrips? (Upper-left and lower-left)
Thank the gods for this video
What software do you use to make these animations?
I saw ur comment on total war Rome 2 spartan edition
Edit: @invicta
Prisons are a modern invention. Ancient and Classical age Greeks and Romans didn't have modern prisons. Mostly there were punishments, exile and execution. Various types of labor like mining, etc.
I wonder if the bit in Blackadder III where the Prince mentions the prospect of being "debagged and Radished" by the Naughty Hellfire Club was a reference to the Roman radish punishment...
One of the things that made me laugh in my studies about Rone is that when people were executed, it is a curse to say “they died” rather “they had lived” which is what Cicero supposedly said after the Cataline Conspiracy
Nice Warhammer collection bro
Albino do one on the Witch dungeons
Pro tip: Don’t eat a radish in Rome
Oh, you just need to wash it. That's all. It even gives a zesty flavor.
tnx
Is that background music from total war?
Where can I find the name of the background music?
I'd like to see a video about debtor's prison.
Don't worry, you're safe. Just pay your bills though and stop being a deadbeat.
What's the background music?
hahah first thought was serious when saw da vince code and was hope for it was a add
3:08 now you have me curious
Interesting
All my childhood memories of Raddishes, Carrots and ancillary root vegetables was destroyed by this video. They are nothing but lecherous anus violating monsters.
So glad you left out cucumbers. Those are reserved for us women (for our salads) 😋
@@lillyanneserrelio2187 😉 Salads, sure...
Ancient Rome, 2000 years ago: Private prisons are barbaric!
US, 2000 years later: Oh, I know, let's have private prisons!
Is it just me I miss the old mic of Invicta when he was blowing air on to the mic
I hear a possible DLC for Prison Architect 😆🤞
So has there been a study comparing the crime rates of countries that imprison their convicted vs the countries that take short term vengeance but don't hold on to the survivors?
What Samsung is that at 1:09
What do you think the quality that made the legacy of the Roman empire most distinguished in comparison to others?
The ability to rule over such a large area so effectively, for so long.. incredible.
Back then being in prison was actually a punishment. Today some prisons have better life conditions than paid hotels, lol...
I always thought every prison sentence was for life back than
Too expensive, you have to feed prisoners and pay guards. Anything that was severe enough for the maximum sentence was simply dealt with capital punishment. The closest thing to a life sentence was reduced to slavery.
Yeah that and maybe some high born hostage, but I kinda doubt those were kept in prisons
Where does Diodorus write about prisons? I'd like to read.
I want to start a discussion because I find this topic fascinating: what do you think prisons (or equivalent punishment/re-education) could look like in future enlightened societies?
Example: once Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality become commonplace gadgets most people use daily for more than just leisure, prisons might be converted over to mostly physical solitary confinement where you only share your digital space with therapeutic AI's.
But, I want to hear what YOU think prisons might be like going forward. What are some humane changes you would make to our current set ups?
I would think that a good punishment(if such a thing exists) honestly would be an actual true retributive one, i.e if we somehow can simulate reality well enough to make the person relive their crime as the victim and feel all the negative outcomes. But that brings up the question of, what is "justice"? making bad people suffer? What gives us catharsis? The victim gets nothing from it except the knowledge the perpetrators suffered too but I think if we could literally put people in each other's shoes(through VR or AI simulations), it would alleviate a lot of the misunderstandings that underpin a lot of regular common arguments and confrontations.
Obviously that's all like movie level SciFi tech stuff but it's cool to think about
11:29
"...how much further we have to go."
Is this comment in reference to conditions within current prisons or the existence of imprisonment as punishment all together?
I think... both applies
seems more like just an indefinite deferral to the Progress ideology
@@fullfist some would say prisons are to good now for people, i mean some of the nastiest crimes now you only get locked up for, in UK it is a joke they have TV, food, bed, computer consoles. they have it better than some law abiding citizens.
@@Historyfan476AD it's even worse in Scandinavian countries
sup history nerds! another fire video 🔥
it is funny... their mode of punishment is considered barbaric to modern historians
in the future, future historians will look back at our time and ponder about our barbaric 'modern' behaviour that we are seeing so clearly if we open our eyes
Former jehovah's witness here seeing all these images pulled from their publications is kind of weird
ah! the art work was copied ? wonder in Invicta knows ?
@@RemusKingOfRome I think he has mentioned that he gets them from a certain magazine. That might be the one.
cole inman Brings back old memories of sitting down and listening to the elder speak while looking at the pictures as a little kid.
@EmperorJuliusCaesar A cult is necessarily secretive and exclusive by nature. The latin word cultus though simply means a body or form or worship however. Think like a cult of personality for instance.
Worship is a shortened version of the older worthship and is simply what one holds in highest regard. Thus everyone worships someone or something and are all a part of a cultus though not necessarily a cult.
God bless you.
The Archivist No, JW is a cult in the modern sense. They twist your personality and cut you off from those who may make you question the beliefs you’re being spoon-fed, that includes restricting your access to media like the internet.
Your comment is kind of irrelevant, yes everyone hold beliefs and if you take the etymology of the word cult to a fault then yes we all believe in cults but some organizations are harmful to others and the best way to describe them is to call them a cult.
Why is there an advertisement for Roman prisons in this Blinkist video?
Can you do the Roman Empire vs Westeros next?
Like a historical what if scenario?
@@InvictaHistory You think Rome would win because of manpower, as is always the case?
@@matthewbrennan3127 rome would win because mid battle westeros writes itself out of existence, because rome has the best story to tell..
@@InvictaHistory yes
Damn those senators had some serious relationship insecurity issues. Do they have a record on who introduced that radish bill?
This video would have been infinitely more interesting had you just mention a few more examples of those cruel and usual punishments
But that's not the point of the video. I'm sure there's plenty of IRL torture porn on the internet, if you absolutely have to know more about the cruelty of man.
7:03 wish that still exists.
Great work and sound historical information (to the best of my knowledge), as usual. I'm glad my country's Founding Fathers had the wisdom and humanity to forbid such cruel and unusual punishments as all this in the US Constitution - the highest law of the land.
The Mamertine prisons were basically old water cisterns converted to hold people
10:34 shouldn't it be "rein in" instead of "reign in"?