How Ganondorf Exists in Tears of The Kingdom | Zelda Theory
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- #zeldatearsofthekingdom #zeldatotk #zeldatheory #zeldabreathofthewild #zeldabotw
In Tears of the Kingdom we see the return of the series antagonist Ganondorf. While we are glad to see him, his apearance causes some problems for the zelda timeline. But is there a simple solution to all of this?
Intro: 00:00
How the Curse is Related: 02:24
Malice vs. Gloom: 05:40
Final Theory: 10:16
Conclusion: 11:11 - Hry
![Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Final Boss: Demise [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r580S90NECo/mqdefault.jpg)
I just wanted to address this since I've seen it mentioned in the comments a few times, I am aware that Fujibayashi recently said that he believes that Raru and Sonia may have established a new Hyrule. Videos like these take a long time to make, so by the time I had first learned of this I was almost done with this videos production and decided to schedule it to release anyways. This video was originally created as part of my work process in trying to make a timeline video, as such this video was only made with the material available at the time of scripting.
It's okay you did a great job making this theory and editing this video so it doesn't matter! 👍😉 Personally i'm still open to such other possibilities even if they contradict confirmed information by the developers so it's nice to find videos which entertain other such scenarios so that we may continue to indulge in conversation amongst the community. You make great content so i hope your channel continues to grow.
What do you think of the timeline Spiral Theory? How about the Dragonbreaktheory? Could these two theories be combined? If so wouldn’t that mean there is technically no spilt in the timeline?
@@eddog6666 I've never heard of ether of these theories so I can't say.
@@maskedmajora6324 The timeline spiral theory basically states that The events of Ocarina of Time all must happen. because without it Link can't warn Zelda and it basically resets to the moment before link goes to retrieve the other items meaning Link never pulled the sword and didn't get put to sleep for 7 years and link never got the news of the trap. however Since The entire story of Ocarina of Time must happen it leads to both to Major's Mask and windwaker.
The dragon break is similar it suggest all three timelines exists at the same time only to converge way later in the future
He meant it as more of a suggestion anyway, so it's still valid. I personally don't really like the refounding theory. Think it eliminates all room for interesting theories in favor of dodging a few retcons (which Zelda is full off either way lol)
I'm still in the camp that tears of the kingdom flashbacks take place long after the split timeline and that the timelines merged.
This is still a great theory.
Your camp has been CONFIRMED _true_ thanks to Fujibayashi making such confirmation in a recent interview he gave for the japanese gaming magazine "Famitsu" where he gave the statement that the history of Hyrule had been LOST prior to Rauru's Hyrule. That a new kingdom would be born from the lost history of the old one makes the blatant confirmation that the current Hyrule is NOT THE FIRST to ever exist in the timeline.
Your camp is on the right. 👌😉
Timelines merging makes less than zero sense.
I always liked the Gramps cameo in ALBW, but never really considered how weird it is that two "Links" are alive at the same time. I think that's a smart comparison - that the spirit can bounce from person to person if one vessel is old, incapacitated, gives it up, what have you.
In that regard the Hero's Shade from Twilight Princess was no longer carrying the Spirit of the Hero within his ghostly form when he imparted his swordmastery to his descendant. That only goes to show that even the Links aren't powered by the Spirit of the Hero they are still skillful swordmasters with unflinching willpower.
Not all Links are reincarnation of the Skyward Sword Link. A big example of Wind Waker Link which is explicitly not a reincarnation of SS/OOT Link, but a heroic little guy who had similar tunic and similar heroic personality, but was someone else. That means it's possible for two heroic Links to coexist, but max one reincarnation of SS Link at the time.
@@Gnidel its a misstranslation tho (im not saying you are wrong)
Zelda in BotW says that she shares the power of her mother & grandmother so it could very well be the case
@@Gnidel None of the Links are "reincarnations" of past Links in the timeline they are all their OWN PERSON with an independent soul who are born with the Spirit of the Hero within them. When the Hero of Winds was born he also carried the Spirit of the Hero within them yet unlike his counterpart from Twilight Princess he had no _blood ties_ to his predecessor from Ocarina of Time. Just because a Link lacks blood ties to a past Hero doesn't meant they aren't a Hero in their own right.
@@hokton8555 The Heroes work different than the _descendants_ of the goddess Hylia. While all the Zelda do in fact share the *blood* of Hylia as their descendants all of the Links (minus the one from Twilight Princess) only share the Spirit of the Hero while been their own seperate characters completely independent from each other. The Zeldas carry the blood while the Links only carry the Spirit.
I agree that the spirit of the hero/Demise could theoretically move from host to host as needed, but I don't even think that's necessary. Drawing from Eastern traditions, the same soul can reincarnate multiple times even if one of the former hosts is still alive. Moreover, since the three souls in question are divine in nature, along with the ever-present themes of time travel in the series, it's possible that if host A and B are alive at the same time, then upon host A's death, his soul could go back in time and incarnate in host B.
That aside, one point that fully backs up your point that the spirit of the hero may enter a suitable vessel as needed you forgot to mention was when the Hero of Wind was stated ingame to NOT possess the spirit of the hero from birth, and needing to undergo a trial to prove his suitability for the role.
Mind you we do not actually know if the Hero of Winds was in fact lacking the Spirit of the Hero at the start of The Wind Waker and had to "gain it" in order to inherit the title of Hero and succeed the Hero of Time. As i understand it this Link was very much a new incarnation of the Hero (not reincarnation mind you) from the moment he was born and due to the fact that he was completley detached from the Hero of Time he was considered as "lacking" the attributes of his predecessor. Do take into account the Hero of Spirit Tracks who's ancestry to the Hero of Winds is never addressed at any point in the game leaving open the possibility that he too lacked the Spirit of the Hero and thus would have needed to proove himself through some trials in order to obtain it only to never need to as much.
Just because a Hero lacks blood ties to a previous one doesn't mean they can't carry the Spirit of the Hero from birth.
I'm sure Hero of Light is SPECIFICALLY Fujibayashi's personal fan-fiction fodder, and that Hero is Rauru. He ALREADY WAS as the "old man" of Ocarina of Time. The point of Old Man was always to be "you" of the past, who wants you to fare better as passing of the torch.
Fujibayashi worked at Capcom during Majora's Mask development, and was probably their inside man during Link's Awakening development. Hero of Light exemplifies the player character inheriting the soul, more so than hero of Winds or Hero of Time. Having been used in Satellaview and Four Swords continuity, and Hero of Wilds is a continuation of THAT tradition. The story that speaks to Fujibayashi as the inheriotr of the directing duties of this series, and he wants to share that with the player as the "writer" of their own story.
The lampshading with Dark Link and Phantoms made by Ganon communicates this same idea, it's same kind of things as Japanese horror stories about doppelgangers. A family memeber you know acting strangely, then you find them in another room where they couldn't have been at the time, that kind of anxiety about losing track of who is who.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 ¿What are you even talking about...? I missed track as soon as you're wrote "Hero of Light" and started talking about Rauru as if he were a past Link in the timeline (he is not). I advice you to avoid writing incoherent stuff next stuff so that people won't think you're a troll just writing nonsense to waste people's time who i'm sure have better things to do than reading so much meaningless ramble.
I do like the idea that the 3 divine spirits/powers aren't bound to the same linear time as we are. They're immortal concepts battling it out across Time and Space.
Ok i am really annoyed by how everyone but me seems to misinterpret the "spirit of the hero" mainly because said "spirit" is not refering to a soul which is why every link is different and not reincarnations of each other and we see this in both wind waker, where link being a reincarnation of the hero of time is impossible because his soul no longer exists in the adult timeline, and twilight princess, where unless link is like the avatar we see him learning from the hero's shade who has been confirmed to be the spirit/ghost/soul of the hero of time, so yeah what the "spirit of the hero" isn't a person but rather it is the spirit of heroism that all of hylia's chosen heroes have.
I absolutely agree!! I also really REALLY hate it when people talk about both Demise's curse and the Spirit of The Hero as like these actual ghosts that wander around until they find a host to take over. It's more prominent with the curse the spirit, but it still happens.
@@pokemonmaster1505 THANK YOU! Honestly, I don't see what is so confusing about it, firstly you have "The Blood of the Goddess" which refers to the original Zelda from Skyward Sword, who was the goddess Hylia in mortal form, as well as all of her descendants, next there is "The Spirit of the Hero", which like I said in my previous comment refers to the spirit of heroism of the one's chosen by Hylia, & finally there's "The Incarnation of Hatred" which refers to the literal manifestation of Demise's hatred of Hylia & Skyward Sword Link in mortal form specifically Ganondorf.
Spot the FUCK on brother!! That’s how I interpreted it as well. The “spirit of the hero” is just those with a very similar heroic qualities or aptitude as the first chosen hero! Seemingly those with an unbreakable spirit
Something to note : Japanese translations of Spirit can also mean power. Not just reincarnated spirits in new bodies.
Plus don’t forget in multiple timelines, there would be spirit/power overlap with multiple links and ganons which could also entail why some have historically been more of
Less powerful if based on how many were with that spirit at the same time.
Basically put the Spirit of the Wild is a _superpower_ rather than a *soul* of an individual who continuosly reincarnates ala Avatar: The Last Airbender confirming that ALL the Links in the timeline (like ALL the Zeldas) are their _own_ seperate beings detached from any and all incarnations in the series. Thanks for this information the fans really need to be better informed on the Lore as it is established in the original _japanese_ versions of the games.
I like your theory, don't get me wrong, but I do have some thoughts to add:
as more details are uncovered through discoveries in game and interviews with the devs, it is really feeling like the Kingdom of Hyrule that Rauru formed with Sonia is just the first that the Zonai were aware of. This allows it to exist after a reunification of the three splits.
Each split seems to start from a wielder of one of the aspects of the Triforce gaining the final say in their timeline:
Adult timeline is when Zelda, the holder of Wisdom, sends Link to relive his childhood, removing the holder of Courage after the defeat of the Holder of Power.
Child timeline is when Link, the Holder of Courage, informs Zelda of the future events and prevents them from happening.
Downfall Timeline is when Ganondorf, the holder of Power, is triumphant and is not stopped by Link.
All their stories play out, but ultimately end in a period where the kingdom is all but destroyed.
This allows a unification point to exist far past the last games in each of these timelines where time blurs and events from each split are "correct" histories to the people who descended from those timelines.
As for alternate "incarnations of Demise", there are quite a few candidates that aren't often considered to be part of the Curse of Demise, but I feel should be: The Demon Majora and Malladus. Others that MAY be influential but not quite full incarnations of the Curse of Demise could include Vaati Vernan, Onox, Chancellor Cole, Bellum, the Shadow Nightmare (Link's Awakening). These lesser entities could possibly be imperfect incarnations as well.
All of these other entities are possible hosts for the Curse of Demise, which is why one of the bloodline of the goddess and with the spirit of the hero rise up against them even if it isn't Demise's chosen re-incarnation vessel of a gerudo male.
Late to the comment game but I always felt that Ganon in BoTW was a manifestation of the true Ganon in ToTK, and that Zeldra only happened after BoTW. No split timeline. Just that the timeline changed. Ganon sealed by Rauru was already present during BoTW, just really deep, deep underground. After Zelda timetraveled back to the past, Zelda did the necessary set up together with Mineru, hence the Zonai shrines. Yes, there are two timelines, but Zelda went through it like it was just one timeline after all.
I place the establishment of Hyrule Kingdom as where we've been told it takes place in Hyrule Historia and the ZELDA Encyclopedia: some time well after Skyward Sword, but long before the events of the other games. After the bloody and destructive Era of Chaos.
Ganondorf's hatred and malice has surged and surfaced as destructive forces since his sealing. I believe that, in some of these instances, this dark power was channeled into living hosts - rare, lone Gerudo voe - by the acts of dark Gerudo witches Koume and Kotake.
This is so high quality, how do you only have 400 subs? You’re gonna grow really fast soon. 🔥
Thank you
I think Tears is far after all the old games and represents a new kingdom of Hyrule with the remains of the old Hyrule on top of the great plateau. Rauru and the Zonai don't know about the Curse of Demise that constantly reincarnates the spirit of the Hero, Goddess, and Demise. That curse is why Ganondorf turned into a demon with the secret stone. Any source of power will become darkness if he uses it.
Rauru didn't know about the Master Sword, so he likely wasn't allowed into the Great Forest where it was hidden.
Perhaps the Triforce artefact was used to combine the timelines and that display of power lured the Zonai to Hyrule.
I believe the era of the wild is taking place millennia in the future from the other games. I believe the depths are old Hyrule which was buried by either catastrophe or time itself. now we are seeing time mirror itself.
i rather think that the Depths are made after a civilization (maybe the Zonai or others) raised the bit of Landpiece of Hyrule upwards to mine Zonaite and so on.
I mean isnt it strange that Hyrule is so cut-off by the remaining land? The only way to which you can get outside of Hyrule are the Ocean and the Dessert, and all around Hyrule is a Huge canyon while beneath Hyrule is a lot of Empty Space. It seems neither manmade or caused by anything natural, rather like some... divine intervention Rose the whole landmass upwards
That seems acceptable. Time travel is a wiggly mistress
100% agree-
Additionally, I think it’s reasonable to put a connection to the Picori and the Zonai- they look rather similar (even the ancient hero’s aspect has a VERY picori ish tail) and even the interlopers.
We know the Era of Chaos followed some time after skyward sword (presumably before the backstory of the minish cap).
I’ll place good money on the Zonai being the interlopers- perhaps a sect of them who went rogue. The gods eventually showed up and said “nuh uh”, and banished them to the Twilight Realm. Perhaps Rauru and Mineru were from a sect that remained loyal and that’s why he ended up taking the throne and reorganizing hyrule into a monarchy from whatever SS Link and Zelda had left it as. The remaining Zonai from Rauru’s sect (Ganondorf kinda implies they may be around- he says “the noble Zonai no longer grace the world with their presence”, and no one makes any indication that they died off) went on to devote themselves to the happiness of Hylians and became the picori.
Also if you’ve played Minish Cap, when Link shrinks to minish size, a bunch of symbols start floating around him- if you go back to the 2019 teaser trailer for totk to get a better look at the writing coming off of Rauru’s arm, it looks awfully similar to the symbols in mc, which are also greenish blue.
Thank you for this video! When it comes to my favorite fantasy settings, I'm a big lore guy, and Zelda is one of those mythos I love theorizing about. I know the creators care more about the individual games themselves rather than connecting them into one big story, but I always appreciated the story more than anything and it was so disappointing to see how they handled TOTK. I follow a lot of Zelda Theory channels on CZcams and so far you have been the only one to very clearly express the disappointments I myself had with this game's story and how it contradicts not just the lore of previous games but its direct predecessor. Thank you and I'm glad I discovered your channel!
I'm now more partial to the idea that Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom either act as a reboot or a separate branch of the timeline altogether.
Some people a while ago has the idea that the 'downfall' timeline takes place not after the bad ending of Ocarina of Time but The Minish Cap instead. One where Vaati manages to extract the life force from Zelda. So the origin of the Ganondorf from A Link to the Past (the blue one with the trident) happens in Four Swords Adventures.
Tears of the Kingdom shows the backstory of a new Ganondorf, separate from the blue Ganon and Ocarina of Time Ganon. Meaning there was a timeline split after Skyward Sword but before Ocarina of Time. This divergence could have been the arrival of the Zonai, creating a Hyrule that was once technologically advanced and the worship of the Goddess Hylia never faded.
I think the error we all fell to was to listen to Rauru's claim that he founded the kingdom of hyrule, so we erroneously tried to make totk fit within the beggining of the timeline.
That was a mistake, since no matter how you try to fit it in, the Rito didn't exist back there. It is way more plausible and logical to just assume Hyrule was destroyed at some point in the future, then after some time the Zonai descended from the heavens without much knowledge of the previous kingdom, and re-stablished a new Hyrule kingdom. The name Hyrule was of course from the land, so no contradictions there.
Even Fujibayashi in his last interview seemed to lean towards that placement.
I think, and this was like, implied by a developer, that the Hyrule we see in BOTW/TOTK is a new Hyrule, kind of like in Spirit Tracks. If you considering in WW Hyrule being flooded. So when in TOTK they talked about the inception of Hyrule, they mean so in terms of what they know about the past. I don't know if I am explaining this well, but like, the people of TOTK are not familiar with the past of Wind Waker etc, and the Hyrule beforehand and the flooding. and to quote the developer he says "..although it is possible this story tells the founding of Hyrule, it could also have history that's been previously destroyed". So I think this Ganondorf is completely unrelated to the ones in previous games. Even though I always found it interesting how much he mirrored the OOT Ganondorf. But this also shows the persistence of Demise, if true, which is cool.
The exact opposite was implied, actually.
My theory is always that the past Zelda traveled to is still at the distant future of the Zelda timeline. The Hyrule founded by Rahru is not the one founded after skyward sword. Something catastrophic happened at the end of the three timelines and the world is basically reset again. A new land is created with something from each of the three split. Except the curse of demise is not broken, so the cycle continues, but very little is remembered of the old times.
Your "theory" is _confirmed_ *FACT* with the Stone Tablet bellow current Hyrule Castle confirming it was placed as a _permanent_ Seal for the current Ganondorf's body, the myriad of references to past games in current Zelda's Hyrule and recent _confirmation_ from Hidemaro Fujibayashi himself that the Hyrule from the Era of the Wild is a NEW KINGDOM seperate from those of the Era of Myth. You got it right.
That’s not “your theory”, that’s the most popular theory and was already debunked by the creators in an interview several days ago.
@@javiervasquez625That not at ALL what Fujibayashi said. If anything, he said the exact opposite, and that this is the same Hyrule and details of the founding had simply been lost to time.
Quit making shit up to fit your silly speculation. You COMPLETELY misread the interview, dude.
@@RenSako ACTUAL *SOURCE* or get out.
@@RenSako Again: _REAL SOURCE_ or STOP *LYING.*
Honestly. This makes perfect sense honestly. You did great!
This makes tears of the kingdom make more sense to me.
Thank you ❤
I mean Demise did say that the "Demon Tribe's hatred" (as stated in the japanese version of Skyward Sword) would continue to threathen the world for eternity one way or the other so it makes sense that Ganondorf himself would be able to _reincarnate_ to continue threathening the land as an incarnation of the Demon Tribe's hatred. Everything that happens in the Zelda world is part of a _cycle_ which keeps repeating itself everlasting meaning that no matter how many times he dies there will ALWAYS be a Ganondorf around to embody and represent the Demon Tribe to do battle against the future incarnations of the Hero and the Princess of Hyrule.
It's a cycle with no end.
I think people conflate the "Spirit of the Hero" as an actual thing that exists and picks and chooses it's "hosts" when I don't think that's the case (personally).
I think having the "spirit of the hero" just means having the makings of a hero and the ability to become one. The person has the essence and values of being a hero and they rise up to the challenge, not because they are posessed by a literal spirit.
I don't think Demises curse magically poofed a hero spirit into existence, I just think the curse made it so that whenever evil awakens, there will be a hero there to face it.
I believe there was a great event that we haven't gotten a story for at all in which all the timelines collapse into 1 in the most literal sense. Maybe in this untold story, the reincarnation of demise was without a reincarnation of the other two. Maybe it was that way because demise made it that way so that he could conquer 1 timeline. A link without a Zelda meets with a zelda without a Link using some left over relic of the goddess hylia or Sheikah technology or something.
This vid rocks. Thanks and great theory
Thank you!
Malice is absolutely not exclusive to Demise (or Ganondorf)! The Japanese word for malice that is used in The Legend of Zelda from Twilight Princess onwards is 怨念 (onnen), which refers to the hatred that persists into the cycle of samsara, or cycle of death and rebirth and carries over into one's subsequent lives. There are multiple instances where other entities that have accumulated their own 怨念 (onnen) are present in the games such as the souls in the Arbiter's Grounds in Twilight Princess! I enjoyed your analysis! :)
Malice is a thin nuclear spillover allegory, and Gloom is the concentrated radiation of it inspired by films like 1989 Black Rain. This should be obvious after the final scene with Dark dragon.
There's moral ambiguity in the fact that Sheikah tech is powered by this very same source of mummified Ganondorf, after they came across it long after Rauru had passed, and built it for the prosperity of Hyrule.
Sonia is drawing these mistakes like Zelda's death FROM her future, to rewrite a better one in the continuity out of the "past" she lives in. It's a different realm, there's dimension hopping there like in AlttP. Mineru and Rauru are pink bunnies, not the true form of Zonai. The original BOTW timeline is in kind fo a "abandon the ship!" situation, because it WOULD have ended miserably.
And this is also how Ganondorf was "Thief King" in ALttP. He had previously stolen an entire world, to get at the Triforce. I believe this happened after he Turned into stone in WW, appeared in TP, and again used WW world as his ship to steal cargo into. This WW world WAS Sacred Realm, that G turned into the Dark Realm by this method. ANd the mirrors are key to all of this, featuring prominently in TP, AlttP, and Four Swords Adventures.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 ¿What's the point of spreading all this random parroting? Like seriously are you genuinely trying to make yourself look like a troll? It's working majestically for real.
Very good theory and presentation!
Thank you!
The idea that Link and Ganons spirits can reincarnate separately is an interesting one, but i don't think its what's happening. Hyrule in BoTW and ToTK was definitely flooded at one point, regardless of which timeline it takes place in. It's reasonable to assume that modern Hyrule was founded by the zonai some time after the flooding receded.
Some have argued that the flooding which took place in the current Hyrule was not only seperate to the one seen in The Wind Waker but also responsible for the underground caverns within the Depths in Tears of the Kingdom. Supposedly many of the plant life within the Depths looks far too "aquatic-like" in nature leading to the popular belief that at one point the Depths themselves were flooded with sea water before been drained and colonized by the Zonai leading to the many residues of rock salts spread across Hyrule.
Already confirmed that the Zonai founded the original Hyrule before the flood and the past part of Tears of the Kingdom takes place roughly post-Skyward Sword.
The whole “Zonai founded a new Hyrule” was speculative head canon that people took too seriously, because it’s easier than actually thinking about stuff.
@@RenSako LOL 🤣 did you seriously think you could troll us like that without any _sources_ backing up your blatantly misinformed lying...? Better luck next buddy.
6:33 the blights are made of malice too
Hey I love your theory. Subscribed!
Thank you!
Totk past is after all other games except Botw, Ganondorf is not an reincarnation of Demise he is an incarnation of his hate, malice can controll living beings just look at Naydra in Botw, under the castle in Ocarina of time it is lava and Demise spirit is destroyed at the end of Skyward sword.
Yes according to the japanese translation of Skyward Sword Demise was very much killed for good after his "residual consciousness" fully dissapeared from the Master Sword. All the villains that we've seen since are "successors" of the Demon Tribe's hatred (or curse as written in the english localization) which is why villains like Ganondorf and Malladus are given the titles of "Demon King" in reference to their inheriting the Demon Tribe's hatred.
That first sentence has been confirmed by Fujibayashi and Aonuma to be fals, and that TotK’s past is the actual founding of Hyrule and that details of it had simply been lost to time.
Quit putting words in the creators mouths because you don’t want to admit you were wrong.
@@RenSako SOURCE or stop TROLLING the comment thread.
@@RenSako Source or shut up.
9:00 I like to think that Calamity Ganon is the incarnation of the malice and hatred of OOT's Ganondorf, not the one of TOTK
I mean, i believe the BoTW and ToTK happen millenia agter a possible timeline merger, so ToTK's "ancient past" is shortly after the merger
Pretty much confirmed by Hidemaro Fujibayashi in a recent interview with the magazine Famitsu so yes you _are_ right in reaching this conclusion.
We canonicaly had two Zeldas exist at once, this theory is supported that a spirit can move around without death
My theory is that Raur's Kingdom was not the first one, that is to say, not right after the events of Skyward Sword... when he was around the divine beasts already existed, implied by the helmets of the sages and you can see Vah Rudania's head at the Fire Temple too, so that means it's way after the events of Ocarina of Time
Rauru refounded Hyrule as Hyrule 2, Fujibayashi alludes to this. Ganondorf in TotK is a later reincarnation of Ganondorf. Zelda Encyclopedia states that Ganondorf was first born in OoT.
Not "Hyrule 2" but _Hyrule 3_ since Tetra from The Wind Waker ALSO refounded Hyrule after it was destroyed at the end of The Wind Waker. This confirms that the Hyrule founded by Rauru is just a "reincarnation" of the kingdom as part of an endless cycle of destruction/refoundation as seen with The Wind Waker and now with the Era of the Wild. Just like Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa, Epona, etc. Hyrule has also become part of a _reincarnation cycle_ by also been reborn again and again across the timeline.
Good to see a new video from you
Glad to be posting again!
The same way Link and Zelda still exist, Ganondorf is reincarnated after he is inevitably killed in the child timeline at the end of TP, reincarnating into the incarnation in 4 Swords Adventure. This new Ganondorf is then killed in that game and is reincarnated again at some undisclosed time before TOTK, is sealed under Hyrule Castle and is responsible for the several calamities leading up to his eventual defeat once again. When the incarnation of Demise's hatred is absent he is then reborn, the same way the blood of the goddess/spirit of the hero are revived in brand new incarnations.
There's a reason why there was never another Gerudo King whilst TOTK Ganondorf was sealed under the castle, he was still alive. The same reason why we didn't see the birth of a new Ganondorf until the original was killed at the end of TP/WW depending on the timeline before they converged again. (I personally believe the time that Zelda was sent back to was way after the events of OOT/Timeline split. It can't take place before SS for obvious reasons, and thanks to the lack of the Master Sword and Triforce I can't see Rauru and Sonia's Hyrule being the Hyrule SS Zelda eventually founds. The only place TOTK's past could fit is way into the future from OOT when the Timelines converged:)
The Ancient Battle
I
Skyward Sword
I
Minish Cap
I
Four Swords
I
Ocarina of Time
I I I
Fallen Child Adult
I I I
I I I
\ I /
Convergence
I
TotK (memories)
I
Calamity Ganon Era
I
BotW
I
TotK
This theory shows soucj calculation on Demise's part. I like it, and I'm adding it to my head canon.
Wow I feel like I am listening to the next version of Vortexxygaming in your Zelda lore video. Probably a weird compliment but trust me it is a good one.
Thank you you so much!
I think the Spirit of the hero is more like a set of qualities than a transference of soul. Each hero has to prove themselves and temper their spirit. It results in each Link growing into the role of hero, embodying the qualities of heroism - Some may see this as a reincarnation of the hero - as each new Link becomes so like their predecessors that they effectively become them.
The one caveat to this idea is that Fi talks about meeting Link again in a future life... implying that the hero will indeed be reborn - and we know Hylia reincarnated herself - But of course Zelda (Like Link) had to undergo certain trials to recover her lost memories to go from merely beeing Zelda to also being Hylia once more... Perhaps becoming the hero through the game's various trials is how each Link becomes the reincarnation of the hero of the past.
Sometimes I feel like people forget just how far into the future BotW/TotK are from the rest of the 3 timelines
It's not much that they forget but that they are easily misled by the many specific details regarding the story of the current Era of the Wild while also been confused by the many references to past games from across all the timelines. It's only when they fully explore and understand the entire world of the Era of the Wild that they finally realize the true nature of this new incarnation of Hyrule.
My theory is that Every game we played before breath of the wild were just stories and ocarina of time is a retelling of the imprisoning war during Hyrule founding days.
My theory is TotK Ganondorf is Demise, or becomes Demise after being imprisoned. Here is my reasoning.
I'm guessing that there is no Giant Goddess Statue in the Zonai kingdom, because it wasn't carved yet. I'm guessing it was carved after (or shortly before) the last of the Hylians were raised up to Skyloft. Hidemaro Fujibayashi alluded "there may have been a history of destruction before the story of Hyrule's foundation". I think that destruction was the prologue/intro of the game Skyward Sword. With Raru and Mineru out of the picture, the Demon King's spirit began leaking out, and led a violent seige against the remaining citizens of kingdom of Raru's Hyrule, and Hylia herself had to take the last of the surviving Hylians to Skyloft (using similar technology as Mineru used to lift OG Hyrule). That's why there are ruins of the previous civilization (Raru's) on the surface under Skyloft (like mining facilities), and possibly the early stages of dragonificated Zonai, Lanayru, Eldin, Faron, who possibly are smaller and able to speak because their Zonai DNA and the relatively short amount of time between the Zonai Hyrule and the founding of the Skyloftian Hyrule (maybe). I'm guessing the Ganondorf 'Demon King' and the Demise 'Demon King' are potentially body and spirit (respectively) because Demise's scar is where Ganondorf's Tear was fastened. Once Link defeats Demise, Zelda (through the blood of the Godess) and Link (through the spirit of the Hero) are cursed to fight reincarnations of Ganondorf going forward, and that's why we see things eerily similar in Ocarina of Time. The Sheikah find a way to bottle Ganondorf up for 10,000 years (potentially why in the OG TotK trailer, the structure above Raru's hand looks similar to the Sheikah technology found in the Shrine of Resurrection in BotW and not Zonai which looks cleaner and sleeker) and then again he leaks out in the form of Calamity Ganon.
I think this theory would explain the lack of Hylia references in the Zonai time period, and also the lack of Triforce in the Zonai time period. Hylia wouldn't have given up her status and the Triforce would still be secret possibly even to TotK Raru.
its not the first time that the development team confirms that the timeline don't matter anymore and each game is the story retold. They just don't think too much about it to not limit the creativeness of the next project. It just don't matter. If it's not a direct sequel (like links awakening, majoras mask and tears of the kingdom), it's just another "world" and another legend with another rules.
Maybe Demise can just split their soul in two. I mean the Medallion of Spirit showed what looked like two spirits So maybe Calamity Ganon was one half of Demise's Soul, while the other half was still inside of Ganondorf. I mean Calamity Ganon is pretty much the incarnation of hatred, and was trying to create a body to inhabit, which would fit Demise's goal. Yes Calamity Ganon was controlling the Blights as well, but it could just be the same way Ganondorf and Demise always control their armies, not that every single one has part of the soul of Demise in it.
Yes! My favorite CZcamsr is back 😊
Thanks that means a lot!
@@maskedmajora6324 we love you in this house. We're your biggest fans even back when you were masked penguin. You're growth has been an amazing thing to see. You rock!
@@Uniclowndaddy that honestly means the world, thank you so much!
The director recently brought up the possibility of the hyrule in BOTW and TOTK being a different hyrule and not like a new version of hyrule like a different land so it would make it for ganondorf to exist considering if it’s true then ganondorf was born millions of years before this hyrule was
Fujibayashi practically confirmed that this current "Hyrule" founded by Rauru is a NEW KINGDOM ENTIRELY from those of the _Era of Myth_ mentioned in the book Creating a Champion by "implying" (pretty much confirming by bringing it up) the possibilities that "past history was destroyed" as an explanation for Rauru's ignorance regarding past kingdoms (Rauru: "...well last i've heard"). It's pretty much canon fact now so there's no room for especulation.
@@javiervasquez625No he did not. Quit making stuff up.
I read the interview and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT what he said at all.
@@RenSako SOURCE or STOP TROLLING the comment thread.
@@javiervasquez625What he actually said is that this game was about the actual founding of Hyrule and there may be details we aren’t aware of as they were lost to time.
Please learn to read and stop forcing your stupid theory into words that clearly debunked it. This stupid reboot theory should’ve been put to rest with the interview, I don’t know why we’ve got folks like you deliberately misinterpreting the interview to somehow fit the exact theory it debunked.
@@RenSako SOURCE... otherwise it's clear who's the _lier_ here.
This is the timeline in regards to BotW and TotK
Every game released before BotW
Hyrule in every timeline dies out
Rauru establishes a new Hyrule as its first king with Sonia as his queen
Zelda arrives from the far future. Ganondorf, a reincarnation of those from years past, attacks Hyrule. The sages are assembled. Rauru seals Ganondorf. Zelda goes full dragon.
Over time Ganondorf, via malice, sends forth a puppet version of himself in an attempt to ruin Hyrule and free himself. He is repeatedly beaten back until the Shiekah create the Guardians and Divine Beasts, which are then buried away.
BotW's backstory takes place. In a split timeline Age of Calsmity takes place.
100 years later BotW tskes place.
Several years later TotK takes place.
While this theory is certainly interesting, I have a theory of my own that I think makes a little more sense for the continuity we knew prior to TotK:
1. The Zelda dev team (more specifically Fujibayashi) recently implied that Zonai Raaru's Hyrule is not the first Hyrule, but a new one that replaces a previous, destroyed version.
2. The original Ganondorf (G. Dragmire from Ocarina of Time and basically every other game that isn't Four Swords Adventures) has, after his death in Twilight Princess, appeared again in the Child Timeline (as Shadow Link) alongside FSA's reincarnated Ganon according to Hyrule Historia. Therefore it's possible that TotK's Ganondorf is a reincarnation of the original and that the Calamity is at least a partial resurrection of Dragmire through him possessing Ganondorf III's malice, as evidenced by the matching Dark Beast forms (which only appeared in Twilight Princess prior to BotW) and the head of BotW Calamity Ganon being almost identical to Dragmire's from the former game, headdress and all.
3. If we're going with the video's theory of Demise switching hosts at will, perhaps with Ganondorf III imprisoned by Raaru, Ganon II being trapped in the Four Sword with no way out and there seemingly being no more Gerudo males from this point onwards, Demise is forced to put his essence back into what remains of Dragmire, thus allowing for the calamities until he can get the seal on Ganondorf III to break.
Feel free to give your thoughts on this!
There are no timelines, fans have just inserted a meaning that matches MCU with "timeline" when Zelda desn't work like that, it works more like Looper or Back to the Future.
Ganondorf was sealed in the SACRED Realm in OoT, where Rauru's ghost is from, and remained there where Link was given his new chance at a Child timeline. In this sacred realm, perhaps Poes and Stalfos were reaincarnated to become the New Hylians and Koroks and Rito, who established Wind Waker world. And it is here where we next see the Triforce: which is housed in... SACRED REALM.
By turning to stone, Ganondorf escaped into Twilight Princess in the Child Timeline, and he is still mostly a ghost, and appears physically only when massive amounts of magic are being tossed around. He was already mostly a spirit. Losing there, he moved again into ALttP, where passing into the Dark World makes you a monster. This is the SAME THING that happens in Dragonification, and HAS happened to Mineru and Rauru, in my theory.
TOTK past is a kind of Realm, where Sonia summons fragments of another realm, preventing a failed quest in BotW timeline, such as Zelda dying in the opening cutscene. Her power is to listen to the will of these objects, and without asserting her own will she simply lets a new future be born, THROUGH the "past" she is currently redefining AS the past: since the FUTURE will only beceome a new future when upheaval deletes enough of the previously existing future. And Triforce doesn't reside in this realm.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 "There are no timelines, fans have just inserted a meaning that matches MCU with "timeline" when Zelda desn't work like that, it works more like Looper or Back to the Future."
Besides the official timeline. True, even with the timelines, there are a lot of plot holes, but stating there isn't a timeline is false.
The idea of a past Ganondorfs "controlling" a new one sounds way too convoluted and outright dismissive of his successor's _agency_ for that being the case so i can't accept this scenario you propose given the obvious wrench it throws if the birth of a _reincarnation_ of Ganondorf in the Era of the Wild was for the precise purpose of _replacing_ the one who died back in Ocarina of Time and later Four Sword Adventures in order to continue the cycle of hatred brought by the Demon Tribe's "curse" as stated in the japanese version of Skyward Sword.
As long as you dismiss the part of the og Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time STILL been a factor in his successor's actions i feel there is _some_ (not much but still some) possibility that your "theory" could apply to what lead to the creation of "Calamity Ganon" during the events of Breath of the Wild. Thanks for the read even though i disagree with most of it.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Thank you for making sit through this long ramble of bad fanfiction and especulation i needed a laugh after the stressful evening i've been having so far. Wish comedians were as funny as you are haha.
@@javiervasquez625 I believe I should clarify something here; I don't believe that Dragmire was controlling Ganondorf III himself so much as he was controlling/returning as the Calamity spawned from the latter's overflowing malice. Ganondorf III's actions are very much his own, but if millennia passed in the blink of an eye during his imprisonment like he said would happen, he couldn't have been aware of the guardians in order to devise the plan of corrupting them and *a* Ganon has to have done so, and that's where I believe the returned Ganondorf Dragmire comes in. In all likelihood had Link failed in Botw and Dragmire stayed incarnated as the Calamity for long enough to see Ganondorf III break free of the seal, he would've likely been cast back into the void as the latter would have likely reclaimed the malice that Dragmire had "borrowed" for the purpose of his return.
It’s weird that purple is the color of evil. Maybe some people started using it, not knowing what it was. And they’ll continue using it forever just because 🤷♂️
I have always adhered to the idea that the timeline isn't real and that only some games coexist while the franchise as a whole is cut into various retellings of the legend. It's a legend, after all.
So in my mind, the last two games do not involve Demise whatsoever. I love your take on Malice being accessible to everyone, though! It's a very interesting way for a story to keep something alive which is metaphysical but impersonal. I think it might be like the power of the sages. A sage can have powers of light, of the elements, of time, or apparently of darkness and malice.
The timeline is very much REAL considering the myriad of references to past game which outright *connect* every major installment in the franchise within a consice _timeline of events_ which prevents any of those games from being self-contained "legends" which retell the same story.
Both The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess make direct references to Ocarina of Time meaning they are _sequels_ to that game. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks both make direct references to The Wind Waker making them sequels to that game. The Oracle games, Link's Awakening, A Link between Worlds and the 2 Zelda games on NES make direct references to A Link to the Past making them ALL sequels to that game. Other than the small titles like the Four Sword Trilogy (that is The Minish Cap, Four Sword and Four Sword Adventures) EVERY SINGLE ZELDA GAME fits _perfectly_ within a timeline with no discrepancies that would credence to your "theory" of self-contained legends which don't link to another game.
As to what you suggest regarding the Era of the Wild "not involving Demise" you do know that the main villain in the game is GANONDORF right...? You know that same incarnation of the Demon Tribe's _hatred_ which Demise warned Link would forever curse his successors and Hylia's descendants for eternity according to the japanese translation of the game...? I mean we even hear Fi's iconic _jingle_ from Skyward Sword so i can't imagine why you would reach the conclusion that the Era of the Wild is SEPERATE to the rest of the timeline when the evidence is EXTREMELY convincing that it does in fact connect to _all_ the past games in the timeline.
@javiervasquez625 "direct references" more like nods that sometimes fall apart under scrutiny. The timeline was always literally an afterthought. Tons of games were made without consideration of which came before or of confirming that they're in the same place. I have little consideration for your points since they clearly dismiss my position and make all the assumptions I myself consider flawed from the getgo. Plus, as I said, the timeline was always an afterthought. They make it make more sense the more they go but they also keep disrespecting it or making it more complicated. They themselves don't treat it as objective by any stretch so I won't. Thanks for your input but your idea of "perfection" doesn't convince me at all hahaha
@@Nathouuuutheone Buddy Fujibayashi has already CONFIRMED that Rauru's Hyrule is a _refoundation_ of the kingdom just like Tetra's Hyrule in Spirit Tracks so there's absolutely NO QUESTION that the current Hyrule was founded after _all_ the previous games in the Era of Myth took place. The conversation is over as it's been CONFIRMED that ALL the games in the timeline happened _before_ the Era of the Wild took place. Let it go man at this point you're wasting your time arguing against the unquestionable.
I am more in line to consider the tears of the kingdom Ganondorf so far in the future that the previous timelines and history ancient legend to most, even the fact the way of how High Rule was founded was changed as the founders of the kingdom of high rule were the link and Zelda of skyward sword, i think which this is a theory so it could be up for debate is that Raruru and Sonia founded the second kingdom of high rule with the first being destroyed in some way either by natural causes or by conflict from one of demise’s reincarnations and the time from that to the second founding was so long that people either forgot one existed before or cared little to mention it.
Mind you the original Hyrule had already been destroyed by Ganondorf in The Wind Waker leading to a refoundation of the kingdom by the events of Spirit Tracks making Rauru's Hyrule the _third_ chronological incarnation of the kingdom.
@@javiervasquez625This is the same Hyrule, though and Rauru founded it. Fujibayashi confirmed as much and we’re still having this discussion.
@@javiervasquez625 True though that would only be the case if we are in the Adult Time line but at the end of the day it does seem most likely that Rarus high rule is not the original but a new one with it lying in one of the time lines or all of them if the merging time line thing is to be considered.
@@endlessabyss3135 Advice: Ignore what @RenSako above is saying. He's a troll spreading misinformation and bias due to saltiness at not accepting Fujibayashi's recent revelation regarding Rauru's Hyrule as the undeniable fact that it is.
I thought every part of BotW and TotK were in the far future of the timeline, including the founding of Hyrule and the sealing of Ganondorf. You don't need to explain co-existence if they never co-existed.
If all the games are, in some way, canon... so that mean that in Legend of Zelda 2 (on NES) there is 3 princesses named Zelda at the same time... the one who got rescued by Link in the first Legend of Zelda (because it is said that the second game was happening few years after the first), the second princess is the "sleeping princess" that is there since ancien time (she is the reason why every princesses of Hyrule are names Zelda)... and a third princess Zelda transformed into a white golden dragon of light... and also... how many masterswords are there... in breath of the wild, just like in many other games, there is a mastersword stucked in the hairs of the dragon princess and a mastersword at the feets of the great deku tree or in the temple of time or on a pedestal...
... for me, severals stories are canon, but some of them are the same time but in a diferent timeline... the ooccas, the minish and the zonai are the same... in one timeline, they apear as invisible tiny beeings, in an other timeline, they apear as disturbing chicken-like creatures, in a third timeline, they apear as somekind of "goatwolves humanoids"...
I guess toying with the triforce may revert time and change the past... by accident or not... who know what would be the effect of asking for a wish to the triforce while having backthoughts that prevent the wisher from focusing on its wish...
It’s obvious. Tears of the Kingdom’s Ganondorf is different entirely. He has no correlation with demise.
Good and bad are necessary for the goddess of hyrule to continue for some unknown reason. She allows Ganon to be born and fight for his chance to rule, only to have him shutdown by link and zelda. Jk, but that would make some kinda sense 🤔
Finally somebody who realizes that the Calamities were at least 3, because that of legend was already Ganon’s returning 😅
the only thing that produces me noise in this theory is demise and his use of ganon/ganondorf, he is still sealed if not diluted into the master sword, its pretty hard to believe he is still plotting after all these years trapped in a sword that is vanishing his existing from the world
nice theory btw
I think he is a gerudo with anger issues that holds the spirit of demise.
Truth
It bears considering
Zelda’s interference in the past diverged the calamity timeline
So it is very possible that the Hyrule Link caught Zelda in at the end of TOTK is a Hyrule neither of them will recognize🤔
I think there are some misunderstandings here.
Demise's spirit doesn't exist after SS due to decaying into nothingness with Impa making it her duty to watch over the sword to ensure that the demon king doesn't rise again.
There is no sentient hatred, curse or spirit guiding any of the villains. They are not evil or exist because of the curse they are part of the curse because they exist and are evil. Demise said that he wouldn't be the last demon king, the last pure embodiment/manifestation/incarnation of the hatred of Saṃsāra, he said he would have successors, successors that can either be embodiments or pure embodiments of the hatred of demons.
The curse of the demon tribe as it's called in Japanese is a description of the the hatred of the demon tribe/the hatred of Saṃsāra/hatred towards the gods. Demise described the state of the demon tribe and the inevitable cycle that permeates the world in Japanese, a cycle that has existed since the dawn of time long before the events of SS's backstory, it's not a magical curse cast upon Demise's defeat. Demise also described a concept that is intrinsic to the universe: Evil will always return as long as light exists no matter how many times the light overcomes it for where there is light there will also be jealousy and where there is jealousy there is also lust/hunger which leads to negative feelings. Anyone can become a god or a demon depending on the strength of wither their positive or negative feelings, desires and thoughts. Both good and bad karma influences one's Saṃsāra, greed, hate and delusions perpetuates it. Everyone is subject to Saṃsāra so there is no point in running away from it because it will be the same for everyone no matter what happens, history repeats itself. The the balance that is intrinsic to the spirit of the hero that Link was created by Link’s actions in Skyward sword and his actions resulted in the spirit inevitably showing up again and again to face a powerful evil, Hylia's and her mortal reincarnation's actions resulted in the bloodline of the goddess/Royal family of Hyrule with Hylia's descendants showing up again with some of them playing important roles in the battle against evil like she did. The curse of the demon tribe is part of the evil will always exist/evil is here to stay trope which has appeared in other parts of Eastern media like Pokémon mystery dungeon or Dragon quest 11 for example.
An embodiment of the hatred of Saṃsāra is delusional/ignorant, greedy and hateful and is thus eternally attached to Saṃsāra. Someone's characteristics may be manifested/incarnated/embodied in someone else even if the soul is gone. Incarnation/manifestation/embodiment is not the same as reincarnation.
Ganondorf's character is a bit different from the one/person/avatar of demise's as unlike his predecessor who showed respect towards Link for defeating and surprising him Ganondorf refuses to accept defeat and tries to drag everyone down with him or go back on his words, cheat or steal to get the last laugh, he is more manipulative and arrogant. He has likely gotten some traits just from being an incarnation of Demise's characteristics, something he shares with Malladus (who is another Demon king that existed long before TWW) but he is a different soul. The Buddha in Buddhism doesn't reincarnate but sometimes incarnates.
QuestwithAaron has some videos about the Japanese text that can explain the rest.
Japanese translations saved on my Google doc
魔族の呪い (curse of the demon tribe)
**魔族の呪い (Mazoku no noroi), curse of the demon tribe/demon tribe's curse/curse of the demon race/curse of the evil race/curse of the evil tribe** (Demise, SS)
**魔人の呪い (Majin no noroi), sorcerer's/demon being's curse** (Vaati, TMC)
光の力を持つ姫…ハイラルの王女が持っているといわれる
“The princess carries the power of light… It’s said that Hyrulean princesses possess this.
ふしぎな力というヤツですか…そんな力を持った者をほうっておいて
They call it a mysterious power… It wouldn’t do well to ignore someone with such power.
後々ジャマをされたら大変ですね…
It could become a serious hindrance in the future…
ワタの魔人の呪いで石になるがいい！
So I will turn you to stone with my demon’s curse!”
- Vaati, The Minish Cap
FI (SKYWARD SWORD)
"中でも貴重なお宝 邪の結晶は
魔族の呪いを放つ 魔物を倒したときに
得られる可能性があります
Among the most valuable treasures are the evil crystals,
which may be obtained by defeating demons that unleash
the curse of the Demon Tribe."
FI (SKYWARD SWORD)
"魔族の呪いにあうと 剣や盾が一定時間 使えなくなります
いったん その場から離れることを推奨
If you are under the curse of the Demon Tribe, you will be unable to use your sword or shield for a certain period of time.
It is recommended that you leave the area."
ほう… 来たか. 覚悟は出来ているようだな人間…
“Oh? …So you did come. You seem to be ready, human…
よく見ておけ. これがお前の眼に映る最後の景色となる…
Have a good look around you. This shall be the last landscape you will ever see.
神の一族への永き恨み… 我が力を解放する悦び…
My eternal grudge against the gods… The rapture of unleashing my power…
全てをお前に叩きつけてやろう
All of this will be thrown against you.
お前が我の前にどれ程の時立っていられるのか… 少し 楽しませてくれよ?
I wonder how long you will last standing against me… Try to make it interesting, will you?
世界は今より我が支配下におかれる!
The world shall soon be under my control!
我に牙剥く 愚かな者共は一族郎党 皆 この大地より消し払ってくれるわ!!
I will wipe clean from this land every fool, their families and their followers, who dare stand against me!!
そして あの万能の力…
And that absolute power…
トライフォースを我が手に収め…
When I finally have the Triforce in my hands…
未来永劫 魔族の支配する世を!!
I will create a world that will be ruled by the Demon Tribe, forever!!”
- Demise, before final battle, Skyward Sword
DEMISE (SKYWARD SWORD)
"我の憎悪は・・・
魔族の呪いは・・・
悠久の時の果てまで輪廻を描く
忘れな！
繰り返すのだ！
お前達は・・・
女神の血と勇者の魂を持つ者共は
永久にこの呪縛から逃れられぬ！
この憎悪と怨念が・・・その権化が
貴様らと共に 血塗られた闇の海を
永遠にもがき彷徨い続けるのだ！！
My hatred...
The curse of the Demon Tribe...
It shall go on continuously reincarnating across the flow of time…
Never forget this!
This will happen again!!
You... You who possess the blood of the goddess
and the soul of hero shall...forever be unable to escape from this curse!
This hatred and grudge...its incarnations
shall go on strugglingly wandering along with
you lowlifes within a bloodstained sea of darkness, forever!!"
輪廻=Saṃsāra
ハイラルを 創りたまいし 古代の 神々よ！ 今こそ 封印の扉 開きて 邪悪なる 闇の化身を 冥府の彼方へ 葬りたまえ！！
Ancient gods who created Hyrule! Now is the time, open the sealed door and consign the evil **incarnation of Darkness** beyond the realm of the dead!!
~ Rauru (Ocarina of Time)
神の御名において治められし大地は安寧のなかにあリました
Because it came to be governed in God’s name, the Earth was filled with peace.
けれどもその穏やかな時は突如として失われたのです・・・
However, this calm time was suddenly lost…
闇の権化 魔王の襲来・・・多くの命が奪われ 大地が焼かれました
The **Incarnation of Darkness**: the Demon King’s invasion... Many lives were taken, and the Earth was burnt.
~ Niko (Spirit Tracks)
ゼルダ様・・・ハイリア様の記憶をお持ちの あなたには おわかりの筈です
“Zelda…you possess Hylia’s memories, so you must understand that it must be so.
私は元より この時代の人間なのです
I am originally a human of this era.
お戻り下さい・・・あなた方の時代へ私はゼルダ様達が 去られた後この扉を処理します
Return for me, please…to your era. After you all pass through, I shall deal with this gate.
私は ハイリア様の命を受けてあなたを守り 世界を救う為に時の扉をくぐりました
I received Hylia’s command, to pass through the Gate of Time for the sake of saving the world and protecting you.
そして終焉の者の思念が 剣の中で朽ち行く今・・・誰かが あの剣を見守って行かねばなりません
And now that the thoughts of Demise are proceeding to decay within the blade… Someone must watch over that blade.
終焉の者が 目を覚ます事があってはならない・・・世界が 再び脅威にさらされては ならないのです・・・
Demise cannot awaken…this world must not be exposed to that threat again…
そして それは我ら一族に課せられたもの・・・
And that is the assignment of my clan…
女神様に選ばれた誇りを 胸に抱く我らシーカー族の果たすべき役目なのです
This is the duty that must be performed by us Sheikah, who bear the pride of being chosen by the Goddess in our hearts.”
- Impa (young), before sending us through the gate, Skyward Sword
This would have been an interesting theory if it had come out before the recent Famitsu interview to Aonuma and Fujibayashi. Gossip Geist did a brief summary of it: czcams.com/video/cMAVft7LLMs/video.html
The blight Ganons are stated to be Phantom Ganons in the Creating a Champion art book.
The ganon from totk is literally Demise i think
Great theory. I think all the enemies in Zelda have the spirit of Demise, I think that is basically guaranteed by Demise's Curse. Because if there is a Zelda game, Link and Zelda are gonna be there and thus Demise can be there so why wouldn't he be there, if is a spirit god of evil, what is he gonna just be resting for this game? Like you said, his spirit will just embody another host! I don't see how the bit about time travel is relevant though.
According to the japanese translation of Skyward Sword Demise was _permanently destroyed_ after the Master Sword absorbed his consciousness and slowly destroyed it for a thousand years until Link, Zelda and Groose returned to the present Era. When Demise casted a "curse" towards Link and Zelda it didn't involve his literal soul but rather that of the _Demon Tribe_ which exists _independent_ of Demise. For Japan Demise is utterly DEAD and he'll _never_ come back to life now that Ganondorf has succeeded him as the new "Demon King" to forever torment the Hero and Hylia's descendants for eternity.
Very interesting. Not the way most people talk about this subject as far as I know.
I wonder, what is the exact quotation and translation difference you are referring to? @@javiervasquez625
It seems to me that Zelda time travel is always predetermined, such when Link learns the Song of Storms. (I don't think most people would agree with me, however.) @@javiervasquez625
But in Skyward Sword, we defeat Demise as a giant demon in the present, then travel back in time to defeat demise in a human form.
So since Link defeated and consumed Demise's soul in the past, but we already know that he was resurrected in the future, we already know that consuming his soul is not destroying him forever. Since we already defeated him once, later in the timeline.
@@ryancarter6876 What i've written bellow is from a Reddit commenter who accurately translated the original dialogues as they were written in the original japanese version of Skyward Sword:
_... Omae ga megami no kishi ka..._
So! You are the Goddess' knight, then...?
...So you are the chosen knight of the goddess.
_Soshite..._
And...
_... Awarena._
How pitiful.
Intriguing...
_Ware wo nossuru tame to wa ie ningen nado ni narihateka..._
Even if she claims it was for the sake of eluding me, she went to the extreme of becoming a mere human...
The goddess lowered herself to a mortal existence to keep me imprisoned.
_Ano kedataku ririshikatta megami Hairia ga na..._
Even that the brave and so-prideful Goddess Hylia went to such ends...
How pathetic. This bag of flesh pales in comparison to the magnificence of her previous form.
_... Hou. Omae mo ano ningen mo megami wo tasukeyou to iu no ka?_
Hum. So both you and that human want to help the Goddess, you mean to say?
Hmm... So you and that other human would stand before obliteration to aid the goddess, would you?
_Omoshiroina... Ware no shiru ningendomo wa hitori nokorazu naki wameki himei wo ageru kotoshika dekinu yowaki sonzai dattaga._
Interesting... The humans I know of are all weak existances which are unable to do anything else except weeping and shouting out screams.
How curious... The humans I've known were weak things. Hardly more than insects, shivering under rocks and ready to flee at a mere glimpse of me.
_Ware tono tatakai demo hamukaisurasezu megami ni sugari tsuiteita ningen... Ano okubyoumonodomo no matsuei ga na._
So, even if you intend to battle me, you are no more but a human sheltered by the Goddess which tries to strike me... A mere descendant of that herd of cowards...
When last I walked this world, they did little more than scream and cling to their goddess, mewling and praying... Counting on her to protect them. How amusing to think those cowards begot someone like you.
_Masumasumotte omoshiroi. Hito ga ware ni tatakai wo idomou to wa..._
Really interesting. A human intends to challenge me to a battle...
You grow more fascinating by the second, human. I never imagined I'd meet one of your kind who wished to stand against me in battle.
_Iidarou. Jaama ga hairenu basho de aite wo ♥♥♥♥eyarou. Sono yuuki ga aru no narabana._
Fine. I shall face you in place where no-one shall get in the way. If you really have such courage to go for it, then.
Very well, then. I shall prepare a place for us where we will not be bothered by distractions. If you still have the courage to face me, seek me there.
_Inochi wo oshimu naraba nigeda♥♥♥♥e mo kamawan. Ware ga yo wo shihaisuru made no wazukana jikan wo ningenrashiku nakikuru ga ii... Daga mazoku no yo ni aragau i ga aru to iunonara... Ware no ato wo ottekoi. Sukoshi deareba matteiyarou..._
I do not care if you value your life and run away. Go ahead and weep like a human during the little time left before I rule the world... But if you claim of having the courage to step into the Demon Tribe's world, then... Come after me. I shall wait for a little while.
If you fear for your life, do not follow me. You can spend what little time your world has left cowering and crying, as befits your kind. But if you truly desire to raise your blade against the world I would build, come for me. I've waited eons to return. I can spare a few more moments to let you decide.
And when you go to defeat him:
_Hou... Kitaka. Kakugo wa dekiteiru you da na ningen..._
Hum... You came. You seem to be be prepared, human...
Ah, so you've decided to meet your end in battle after all. It pleases me greatly to see such misplaced valor, human.
_Yoku miteoke. Kore ga omae no manako ni utsuru saigo no keshiki to naru..._
Contemplate. This shall become the last scenery to be engraved in your sight...
Take a moment to appreciate your surroundings, for where we stand shall serve as your tomb for eternity.
_Kami no ichizoku no nagaki urami... Waga chikara wo kaihou suru yorokobi..._
The flowing hatred towards the Gods' Tribe... The joy which comes with the release of my power...
The hate for the gods that has boiled in my veins...
_Subete wo omae ni tatakitsuketeyarou._
I shall discharge all of them into you.
You will taste all of it in the bite of my blade.
_Omae ga ware no mae ni dorehodo no toki tatteirareru no ka... Sukoshi tanoshimasetekureyo?_
I wonder how much time you will last standing against me... Will you try to make it interesting?
The only question left is how long you will manage to remain standing before I take your life. Try to keep it interesting for me, would you?
_Sekai wa imayori gaga shihaika ni okareu!_
The world shall now submit to my ruling!
And when you do fall, know that your world and everything in it is mine to dominate... Mine to subjugate... Mine to rule!
_Ware ni sabamuku orokanamonodomo wa ichizoku routou mina kono daichi yori keshisattekureruwa!!_
Those foolish herds which oppose me... Their tribes, their members... All shall be wiped out from this Land!!
When I finish with you, you can take solace in knowing your friends and kin will soon follow, as I wipe all who oppose me from the face of this world!
_So♥♥♥♥e ano bannou no chikara..._
And when I possess the absolute power...
...It won't be long now. At last, the almighty power I've sought for millennia...
_Torfaifoosu wo waga te ni osame..._
When I possess the Triforce...
I will take the Triforce for my own...
_Mirai eikou mazoku no shihaisuru yo wo!!_
The world's future shall be forever ruled by the Demon Tribe!!
And the world shall be under my foot for eternity!
What Fi says about Demise:
_Chuushiku taishou no meishou Shuuen no Mono._
The name of the targeted object is "Tyrannical Being".
Target lock: Demise
_Toki wo koe zettaitekina sonzaito♥♥♥♥e aritsutsuketeiru ma no kongen desu._
A totally overwhelming existence which has overcome Time itself and is the origin of the ever-so-present "Demons"...
This eternal being has conquered time itself. It is the source of all monsters.
_Sono sugata wa mirumono ni yotte chigau tomo jidai ni yotte chigau tomo iitsutaerareteimasu._
It is said that its form varies according to the era and the one who witnesses it.
According to tales passed down through generations, it appears differently in each epoch and to each person who lays eyes on it.
What Demise says when you defeat him:
_Ningen yo! Ware wo ryousgasehi, tsuyoki ningen yo!!_
Human! Having been able to overcome me... You are a strong human!!
Extraordinary. You stand as a paragon of your kind, human.
_... Migoto da. Daga oboeteoke. Kore wa owari de wa nai..._
Splendid. But, remember... This is not over...
You fight like no man or demon I have ever known. Though this is not the end.
_Ware no zouo wa... Mazoku no noroi wa... Yuukyuu no toki no hatemade rinne wo egaku._
My hatred... The curse of the Demon Tribe... They shall continously go on reincarnating until the end of all times.
My hate...never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end!
_Wasurena! Kurikaesu no da!!_
Do not forget it! I shall repeat it!!
I will rise again!
_Omaetachi wa... Megami no chi to yuusha no tamashii wo motsumonodomo wa towa ni kono jubaku kara nogarerarenu!_
You people shall... You people who possess the blood of the Goddess and the soul of hero shall... forever be unable to escape from this curse!
Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse.
_Kono zouo to onnen ga... Sono konke ga kisamara to tomo ni chinerareta yami no umi wo eien ni mogaki samayoi tsuzukeru no da!!_
This hatred and grudge... Its evolution shall forever painfully wander across this blood-stained "Dark Sea" along with you lowlifes forever!!
An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!
Finally, here's a note from the translator on Demise's "name" in Japanese:
"Shueen" normally means "end" or "apocalypse", so it should be the "Apocalyptic One". Yet when Zelda speaks of him during your reunion in the past (Hylia's Temple) she mentions his name in the context of "The Shuuen no Mono which desired to rule the world".
There, according to my Japanese teacher (a Japanese from Oosaka himself) told me that there was a trick: given how this guy wanted to "rule" then the meaning changed to that of "ruler" or "tyrant", so "Tyrannical Being" is a correct translation.
In short: in Japan he's known as either "Demon King" or "Tyrannical Being" yet he doesn't have a "name" per se.
Not sure why the translator used hearts within the japanese words but i assume it might have been typo while he was writing them down.
@@ryancarter6876 Your thoughts? (on the translation i mean).
I don’t think the time line is alterable as much as all possibilities already exist
Nice!
whats the music track at 2:23?
Safety in the Sanctuary - Link Between Worlds
Not demise 😅😅😅 did y'all not play skyward, demise is definitely absorbed by the master sword and thus he is destroyed, it's only the curse that persists
Not a "curse" but more an endless hatred (or Gloom?) of the Demon Tribe which keeps on reincarnating as Ganondorf and other such evil beings to spread Chaos and destruction which must then be countered by the newer incarnations of the Hero and the Princess. It's all a cycle between _Order_ and _Chaos_ which seemingly exists to maintain "balance" between the Zelda world.
demise, literally says "curse" .you can interpret the scene however you like but the fact is that demise curses the two, Link and Zelda. the hatred never parishes yah but ....also, some of you guys can't seem to accept the fact that the legend is a fairy tale and will be a fairy tale and sometimes...things aren't that deep....@@javiervasquez625
Note : It is beyond important to find the japanese version of anything Zelda to make a concrete theory. While your efforts are fine, we are still far from the conclusion you could find using the Japanese version.
Malice is actually hatred and Gloom is actually miasma. So first, there indeed is a translation error as the gloom mood has nothing in common with the illness inducing gassy substance that is miasma. The english translation is never enough for theories.
seems right to me
Maybe those ganondorf are a portion of the true ganondorf? And TOTK ganondorf is the true ganondorf?
Where you at? My kids ask at least once a week if "penguin" made a new video yet. I know you're masked majora. We just still call you penguin lol
That’s really sweet. Unfortunately due to life circumstances I haven’t been able to make any new content in the past few months. Hoping to get back in the workflow soon.
I dont mean to alarm you, but the title has a small typo. "Ganodorf"
Whoops, that’s my Dyslexia for you 😅
@@maskedmajora6324
It's okay. I will delete my comment so that no one knows there was a typo.
I don’t think they really care about continuity. I’m pretty sure they’ve said it’s not that important to them. They make Zelda games and the timeline seems more of a forced afterthought by fans.
I have had a theory since botw that botw and totk are on a seperate timeline than the 3 we know of and it splits off before skyward sword. Hyrule was once submerged in the great sea with eldin being an underwater volcano. It is possible that the volcano erupts causing an earthquake lowering the land into the valley like area it sits in and creating the depths (with the dark skeletons being sea serpents). After the water drains either over time or as a result of the earthquake the original zonai descend from the sky and colonise faron. The zonai then leave for other lands outside of hyrule. They then bring the hyruleans from other lands to the sky. The hyruleans then descend to the surface and advance while the zonai live in the sky. Hundreds of years later for one reason or another all the zonai except rauru and his sister. Then all other referenced zelda games happen (idk how to ecplain the island lobster shirt maybe it was worn by the people of lurelin) because the timeline is only changes from certain events like the outcome of certain battles but things before that and even some things after that even in a different timeline still happen meaning demise may not even exist or perhaps he was the reason the zonai almost went extinct and is also sealed like the current gannondorf
¿How do you explain the myriad of _references_ to past games if the Era of the Wild is it's "own timeline" seperate from the previous games in the Era of Myth...? I mean Fujibayashi himself has recently CONFIRMED that the past Hyrules were _destroyed_ prior to Rauru's refoundation of the kingdom as an explanation for his misinformed statement regarding him being the "first king of Hyrule" last he heard. We even hear Fi's iconic jingle at the end of Tears of the Kingdom confirming that Skyward Sword is most definetly canon to the Era of the Wild giving at least credence that the following games after Skyward Sword are ALL CANON to the Era of the Wild. Sorry but i simply don't accept this theory you propose as accurate given the _massive_ amount evidence to the contra especially now that Fujibayashi-san has given his explanation regarding the Hyrule seen in the Wild duology.
Oopsie! Convergence of the time line has been confirmed. BOTW takes place after the convergence and TOTK story about the establishment of the kingdom is just another in a long line of rebuilding the kingdom.
Gramps can't be the Hero of Legend because the Triforce turned into birds after the Oracle games. He'd have to be the hero after that, where the Triforce became triangles again and then split between the three holders, as implied in the painting in LBW
It goes Ganondorf -Demise -Ganondorf. All of those who say it isn’t are incorrect because the Zonai link is shown to be fighting an evil like Ganondorf through Ganon. It would make 0 sense for Link to be hylian, then zonai (hero’s aspect), then hylian again.
¿Why would it make "0 sense" for a future Link to look like a lion-looking Zonai before going back to a Hylian for his next incarnation? As far as we know there's no law which forbids the Spirit of the Hero to incarnate in a member of a different race seperate from the Hylians. It could perfectly be the case that when the Great Calamity from 10.000 years happened the Hero from that Era just happened to be a Zonai which is why he ended up assisting his Era's Zelda to seal away the then current incarnation of the Demon Tribe's curse.
I am sorry but you are wong. The Founding of Hyrule in Tears of the Kingdom IS NOT the Founding of Hyrule after Skyward Sword. Fujibayashi said it himself. This Founding is happening after a story of Destruction. The most propable option is the Wind Waker Hyrule that has been flooded had its water disappear thanks the the Deku Tree Seeds planted all over the kingdom. They absorbed the water and left an abandonned wasteland of a Kingdom that Totk Rauru rebuilt when he founded his latest Kingdom of Hyrule.
There were explicit mentions that BotW (and by extension - TotK) is in Child timeline. It must have been another disaster.
@@Gnidel wait this timeline is the only timeline that isn’t possible. Zelda saying the embers of twilight in the first memory doesn’t means this is the child timeline cause the twilight realm exist since the unified timeline (Ss to Oot part of the timeline). The Zora tablets talks about Ruto who awakened as a Sage. She didn’t in the child timeline. Look at the sages in TP it’s not the ones of OoT cause they were never awakened by oot adult Link.
@@Gnidel People need to forget about the previous timeline. The game has hints of all timelines. The jap site for Zelda places Botw and Totk so far into the future that its it's separate thing. The game even gives you a quest about 3 opposing theories that coexists with the Leviathan bones. Plus, the Famitsu interview already addresses the timeline placement czcams.com/video/cMAVft7LLMs/video.html
@@Gnidel ¿When is it ever said that the Hyrule founded by Rauru was _specifically_ founded in the Child Timeline...? Sorry but there's NO EVIDENCE anywhere in either Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom to suggest as much.