The Cycle of Demise: Ganondorf & Reincarnation in Zelda Explained
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2023
- Let's discover the mysteries surrounding Ganondorf's power and his return in Tears of the Kingdom.
With a focus on the Japanese versions of Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild, this video delves into the two central concepts of 妄念 "mounen" and 輪廻 "rinne", as used in Buddhism, to shed light on the motivations behind Ganondorf's actions.
輪廻 "rinne" is the word Demise uses in Japanese to refer to the cycle that the spirit of the hero and the blood of the Goddess are bound to. 妄念 "mounen" is the word that Zelda uses to describe Ganons/Ganondorf's obsessions.
Judging by the way Demise speaks in Skyward Sword, it's also possible that he was already aware of the concept of "rinne" , the cycle of reincarnation, prior to the events of the game.
All translations in this video were completed by me. As in the complex nature of translations, there is no perfect one to one direct equivalent. There are multiple ways to translate (and interpret) text. This video showcases my translations and interpretations. Another may choose to translate differently! - Hry
There's a slight misunderstanding of the context of Zelda's words. Ganon *did* give up on a reincarnation to assume the form of Dark Beast Ganon: he was in the midst of making a new body (a physical reincarnation) when Link arrived, and so he fought him in an incomplete state. When that failed, he gave that body up to embody pure Malice as Dark Beast Ganon. It's not the greatest choice of words, and it led to a lot of confusion, but it isn't inaccurate; it's merely poorly worded.
Glad to see you hear. It would be cool to have you two collaborate at some point!
Hey! Thank you for your comment! You really make me think about this stuff in even more depth. I love it! I've gone over that line again and looked at both versions of Calamity Ganons and Dark Beast Ganons entries in the compendium. I think I see where you're coming from. Calamity Ganon was waiting inside of a cocoon for his body to resurrect, but was unable to complete it (despite his desire to), he had no choice and appeared in an incomplete form due to Link's arrival. Is that right? I'd be keen to discuss it more with you, this stuff is exciting!
@@QuestWithAaron So if I understand you 2. The Japanese version says he won't give up on coming back in a new body so he's assuming this new form to fight you. The English version says because you stopped his new body he had no choice but to give up on it and has assumed this dark beast form. Sound about right?
Ohhhhh that makes much more sense
I wonder where Ganon got all this Shika technology from.
He seems to have welded his disembodied form with Shika technology.
But how does that happen?
Somehow it seems to me as if they had experimented with Ganon.
Maybe to find a solution how and if you can break the curse.
It's also kinda weird that Ganon seems to be under the castle.
Why sealed deep there and not in the Gerudo Desert?
Honestly, you deserve more recognition.
Honestly your content is so good! Much better than a "top ten zelda bosses"
Man this video really makes me even more excited for Tears of the Kingdom. Hopefully others will share this video to the Zelda community because videos like this sheds light on the other games that the English localization just can't tell the story in a similar way!
Thank you! I can't wait for TotK and for more info on it!
Very well put-together video! Probably some of the best Zelda content on CZcams and it clears up a lot of misconceptions. I feel that the translations you have helped bring to light gives Ganondorf his agency back. I always thought Skyward Sword really robbed Ganon of his character, instead of being a single man that would go on to be thr largest menace of Hyrule he's just a reincarnation of a generic demon and was thus fated to be evil. But this really helps clear things up, the way I see it, Ganondorf is his own individual not tied with Demise at all but rather is a being who shares the same hatred of the goddesses as Demise, continuing the cause of the Demon tribe. I like the idea of his refusal to give up on his goals and desires being the reason he constantly comes back instead of it just being Demise's curse keeping him alive.
Fantastic video, as usual. You are probably my favorite Zelda channel, despite not milking your channel with video after video, just for views. Respect.
I don't think Ganondorf has learned to harness malice on purpose. I think he's been detained indefinitely by the spiral spell-hand, and Calamity is a consequence of its inability to detain the curse, being the collective result of a millennia of slowly seeping malice. This is why Calamity had to cobble together body parts from Sheikah technology: It's true body is not dead, and therefore unable to truly revive (it cannot clone itself).
I think, eons and eons before BotW, the Sheikah thought that they had found a way to stop the reincarnation/revival of Ganondorf, by imprisoning him physically, rather than deleting him in the Master Sword, like Demise.
Demise could reincarnate, but because his soul was detained in the Master Sword, he could only reincarnate as a mindless, vengeful body. In BotW, Ganondorf cannot reincarnate a body, so his malice must either manifest itself as a dark beast or find a host body.
That's a very interesting point you make. It would make sense as the cycle of "rinne" is indefinite. Defeating Ganon would only make the cycle start again. But then if detaining or sealing ganondorf in that state was a solution enacted at the time and the repeated calamities was a result of its inability to detain the curse, that would also mean that the green hand was only prolonging the inevitable. Its fascinating to think about.
@@QuestWithAaron Thank you!
That is precisely what I was trying to say. I truly believe that this is the direction in which the lore is going (although only time will tell): A vengeful Ganondorf that has been withheld for so long that it became something more, similar to Demise.
If I may leave you with one more fragment of evidence, I'd point out the similarity between the camera angle of the first TotK trailer--focused on Ganondorf at the center of the spiral seal--and compare that to 'the 'imprisoned' from SS, detained beneath a similar, spiral architecture.
the clear fact that the royal family and whoever the prophet was that told them "the power to oppose ganon lied beneath the ground" 100% interpreted that wrong is so crazy to think about now, knowing that Ganondorf is under hyrule castle.
For the English dub, I think Charles Dance of Games of Thrones would be the perfect voice for Ganondorf!
Amazing vid as always. Japanese translations make lore videos so much more interesting.
The only way to save Hyrule is to save Ganondorf (the only Gerudo male) and free him from his curse, his hatred, and his Demise (doing this will truly bring peace to all the races of Hyrule which will bring peace to the Kingdom) If Ganondorf becomes a good guy and helps Link and Zelda fight his curse that is his hatred... It will be the best ending to any story ever told.
I agree . Zeldas - "Please lend him your powers "
At least, until *another* powerful Person begins wielding a lasting Hatred that draws them into the _Rinne_ of *Demise's Curse...*
That's the Problem: Ganondorf is simply *the First* to fall into the ideal Conditions to inherit Demise's _Onnen_ and plunge the World into Darkness. If Ganondorf were ever to Escape the _Mounen_ that binds his soul, he would merely *lose the Power he had been granted by Demise,* and be *incapable of resurrecting* upon the next time he dies.
Then Demise simply waits until the *next* Being that's ideal to grant his _Onnen_ to emerges, and the _Rinne_ begins yet again...
This is the first video of yours I've seen and I'm subbing right away. The amount of digging you did into the etymology (I hope that's the correct word here) of both the English and Japanese was amazing to listen to. Great job
This whole video was incredibly enlightening! The part about the Lost Wood reminded me how some people have gone through the Tears of the Kingdom trailers and found the Lost Woods, or at least the very large distinct-from-afar Great Deku Tree, to be missing in the backgrounds of certain shots. Given the context that it may be for the purpose of hiding things the Un-enlightened or spiritually corrupt should never get access to, having the great protector of such a place vanishing would be devastating.
Yeah I was thinking about the Deku Tree earlier too, actually! Ganondorf's power in OoT was strong enough to affect the guardian deity, so I wouldn't be surprised if a similar, more direct approach would also have an impact in TotK! We will have to see what happens soon!
Actually, Eiji Aonuma on the beginning of ToTk trailer #2 says that the golden trees on the sky islands are special and not seen anywhere else on Hyrule. Adding that to the fact that fans could not find the Deku Tree on any of the Hyrule shots, implies to me that the Lost Woods are actually broken up into Golden Tree sky islands.
IM SHOOK
If Tears of the Kingdom is all about breaking the endless cycle of death and rebirth the Bringer of Demise placed upon the sport of the hero and those who shared the Blood of the Goddess since Skyward Sword, I pray to Hylia that Zelda does not die! Because I would throw myself off the bridge if that happens. Let alone devastates Link not because of his feelings for her nor his duty to safeguard the Princess of Hyrule as her appointed knight. But because the promise he made to Urbosa to look after her “little bird” on the deceased Champion’s behalf. BOTW Zelda is my favorite because she is more relatable to any of us, she has been through a lot, and I want her live her life to the fullest as she dreamed of being a scholar like her mother.
You're doing great work here. Providing the original texts and context is so helpful.
This was a real eye opener , a lot of things actually make sense now.
But I must correct you on one aspect of the demise curse.
Demise didn't lay a curse , fear leads to hatred which brings him back through the cycle.
It is an actual self-fulfilling prophesy , and nobody caught that.
I agree! I wouldn't say that Demise "layed" a curse per say, but judging from the way he speaks in Japanese, it's kind of like he's aware of the cycle, the full Buddhist nature and elements that come with it, and how hated can fuel it. I'd love to see a prequel to SS one day and learn more!
@@QuestWithAaron Sorry , I tend to go off about obvious things because nobody listens.
Like when people say that Minish Cap came before Ganon even existed.
I know Vati was a Ganon fan , it's how Vati made versions of previous minions.
Why doesn't anyone accept , or even say that?
Is it because they can't explain the dry sea?
Or why so many medallions exist?
The medals were used to balance the elements and make a livable kingdom , presto.
Am I really alone here?
Do I have to risk being someone people look at , just to get these things known?
Being recognizable is my nightmare.
Yeah, Demise is basically stating karma, that the reciprocal hatret between light and dark will make them fight for all eternity.
Your Zelda theories stand far above any others I've seen. Most people come up cool ideas about how things are connected but are ultimately fueled by pure speculation. Your theories however feel like a natural conclusion drawn after understanding fundamental aspects of the Zelda Lore and its cultural inspiration.
By the time you were ready to reveal that you were going to divulge Ganondorf's relationship to the Lost Woods, I was already convinced and could almost picture how you would do so because of how thorough and detailed you were building up to it.
A normal theory would start with a claim like Ganondorf can't travel the Lost Woods and here's why. Then it would proceed list off some common tropes of the canon like people turning to stalfos so that's what would happen to Ganondorf. And it would have no explanation for why Link is able to like you did.
All I can really say is great job once again and thank you for this treat.
Hey I really appreciate that! I spent a lot of time on this video, one of the challenges was trying to keep things I've mentioned in the past concise while still adding value with necessary explanations. Your words give me an incredible amount of motivation, thank you so much!
Hopefully they fix 4SA taking place after TP and let this be the same ganondorf from oot and TP in the child timeline. Imagine the rage he would have being trapped for 10k plus years. Neither alive or dead.
Onen can move from host to host, why couldn't there be a ganondorf II? (or LXVII for that matter)
@@siraaron4462 because I’d rather have the same ganondorf with all that backstory rather than some new one that means nothing to someone whose been playing the franchise for 30 years. Not to mention every appearance of Ganon/ganondorf has been the same exact one from oot in every game except 4SA. Hate the game for it.
Yeah if this is the same Ganondorf who's been trapped in that state the whole time, it's crazy to think about what he'll be like in TotK! That is a lot of time to be imprisoned with essentially nothing but your hatred.
@@_itsmunah I mean never stopped us from enjoying link and Zelda (or impa... or beedle... or any other "recurring" character.)
Also switching TP and 4SA creates all sorts of continuity errors.
@@siraaron4462 I didn’t say switch them. 4SA should not happen after TP or even in the child timeline. Can you not see how much more back story ganondorf from oot/TP would have appearing 10s of thousands of years down the road. I want him waking up and explaining his history to link. Character growth.
Keep up the great work I love your vids your one for the only few who reads and translate the Japanese version
it’s only 100 days to go till the release date and I can’t wait hopefully we get more vids to keep me hyped till may 15th
Thank you! Release day can't come quick enough!
Great video as always my good sir😊🥰👍💯💕💞💖
Thank you!
This channel is so underrated, I’ve been watching your videos over and over!!! Amazing work and analysis
Thank you so much!
I love how detailed and informative your videos are on this topic. Great job, and can't wait to see a video on the newest trailer.
Wonderfull as always !
Your videos are so well explained and interesting, I can't wait to see what you have in store once Tears of the Kingdom comes out- you've earned yourself a new subscriber!
Beautiful video, thank you sincerely for your content!
Your videos continue to be some of the best on Zeldatube
You are too kind, thank you sir!
The path to freeing Hyrule lies in Hylia forgiving Demise. As it reveals both the hero and the goddess are bound by their own malice too
Just found this channel love the amount of detail and work on this video. Just subbed.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that! I'm happy you enjoyed it ^^
Best video of the lore I’ve seen in awhile.
All these years I thought the Zelda storyline was random nonsense. Maybe it still is, but this video convinces me there is some sense of consistency I never noticed before.
Your videos are GOAT
I know what you're doing is amazingly difficult and I totally respect that. I wish there were more channels like yours out there. But I'd be lying if I wasn't hoping for more new, less review.
Also I still think "Ganon" is a mindless force of ~~nature~~ Demise's Malice not inherently tied to a single mortal with large amounts of jyaki.the child timeline had a ganondorf the 2nd this is probably like ganondorf the 8th.
So In twilight princess and wind waker it is the same Ganondorf from ocarina of time. And he was killed in both of those games. This Ganondorf looks like he lines up best with the child timeline version. But we have yet to find out
@@stephenshaffer918 what about 4SA ganondorf tho?
@@siraaron4462 4SA?
@@stephenshaffer918 four swords adventure. Takes place after TP in the child timeline, WoG is gannondorf iin that game is a completely different character.
@@siraaron4462 so it's debatable on whether or not that one is canon. Lots of CZcamsrs have spoke on it such as zeltik and Nintendo black crisis. But also Ganondorf wasn't in that game it was only the failed resurrection of beast Ganon. Which is the embodiment of Ganondorf's triforce of power. So Ganondorf still technically died. But him and Ganon are different entities it is believed. Ganondorf is the gerudo male that died due to TP link and Ganon is the reincarnation of demises hate that is channeled thru Ganondorf thru the triforce of power.
Can't wait for a new video after the most recent trailer!
There is a video currently in production! I can't wait to share it with you in the upcoming weeks :)
@@QuestWithAaron can't wait to watch it! I've seen every other one so far haha
Lets go! 💪🏻💪🏻
So what I gathered, The master sword must brake, the Triforce no longer needs to be grant wishes, The princess and the hero must die in order for the curse to be broken.... It's going to be interesting How the end is going to play out...
Honestly you're the only good zelda theory CZcamsr aside from monster Mace...
But you're so much better! I really hope you get like a million views and more subscribers someday
What I found interesting is how Ganondorf was not only sealed by what appears to Zonai magic, but upon awakening his power is so immense that it overwhelms Link and the Master Sword.
And then it clicked on why he's so powerful and why he awoke in the first place.
This Zonai seal, unlike the Master Sword, did not dissapate Ganondorf's power and malice. Instead, Ganondorf's rage, hatred, and envy would continue to build up in pressure over 10 millenia. The main seal managed to hold his main body, but cracks were forming. The excess Malice would begin to build up and cascade into a being like Calamity Ganon, his Blights, his monstrous legions, and even infecting the Guardians.
However, this was just the Malice that was leaking from the cracks. The main power and Malice was still being blocked by the Zonai seal.
I speculate when Link and Zelda approach the mummified Ganondorf, it is their presence he senses that triggers an ancient rage that finally breaks the Zonai seal. His malice and rage erupts like a volcano, a force of concentrated pressure so immense it even overwhelms and breaks the Master Sword.
...And with the Master Sword marred and broken, Ganondorf's already insane power likely further increases more. In fact, it may be why we he see him take on a form similar to Demise.
You were kind of close he did gain a form called The Demon King Ganondorf close to Demise but its from stealing the Queen Sonia's tear shaped stone stone that had the power of the Gods and that was given to her by Rauru who was a descendant of the Zonai who became the King of Hyrule
His name is Crenando.
Such a very very very awesome, inspiring and informatively interesting video, I so very much loved and enjoyed it.
Great job and well done, keep up the great work, I got a mega ton of the much needed inspiration for the liminal spaces/Zelda inspired story/series I’m working on writing.
The story I’m writing is liminal horror and lovecraftian/Eldritch horror with slight elements of fantastical dream-logic fiction and analytical psychological/parapsychological horror.
The plot elements of my story/series are:nostalgia, memory, philosophy and Liminality.
The themes of my story are: hauntology ( as in the rosy retrospection/bias of the past and nightmares/hauntings of lost media given form.
I absolutely love getting getting inspiration from the Zelda series and Japanese mythology, folklore, spiritual teachings and urban legends, they’re so cool and fascinating to learn about.
I’m going to be incorporating elements of it into my horror/mystery and surreal-dream fiction story/series.
I also absolutely love Japanese horror, I’m incorporating elements of that into my story as well.
My story/series will have a combination of cultural Japanese elements and retro American elements.
Thank you so much! Best of luck with your writing and stories, they sound incredibly interesting!
Japanese horror fascinating; one of the ways it differs from Western media is that while much of the horror stuff we have in the West embraces more fast paced and violent elements, Japanese horror is much more atmospheric in comparison. Traditional Japanese horror conveys it's themes more so through build-up, and the fear that one feels as a result of that tension is what makes it terrifying.
@@QuestWithAaron thanks. 🌟😎❤️💕
One thing I wondered is, what if Ganon never returned.. would the races simply attack hyrule because they want to rule over hyrule? You can never rid conflict after all.
I continue to be more and more convinced that the past sections of TotK are set before OoT. The Ganondorf there is the original Ganondorf, but once he is sealed his hatred allows him to be reincarnated again in OoT. As he continues to be reincarnated over and over again he becomes less and less human and more bestial until he becomes the form of Calamity Ganon. He can take physical form, but lacks his mind and intelligence. That form eventually becomes Dark Beast Ganon and it is destroyed meaning Calamity Ganon is now no more. With the original Ganondorf's death in TotK, the cycle is effectively broken. Demise's hatred and curse still ensures there will always be evil in the world, but Ganondorf is no longer bound to that curse.
Can't wait for the game
4:27 paused to make a guess as to what the cycle is called in Japanese: something like "samusara"
Good video, with well informed delivery. Breaks down basically every reason why I expect to hate this story and hope its as sparse as BotW.
Who is here after the new tralier?
Demise eh?? dang i JUST finished skyward sword for the first time several hours ago lol.
shame he was a pretty easy final boss tho..
What wish could be made upon the Triforce that would end the cycle and bring peace to Hyrule?
I really hope Demise appears in some form im TotK, i always was disappointed with how little screen time he had in Skyward Sword despite being Hylias total opposite
He's dead tho
@@Mari_Izu shh 🤫
maybe, possibly, he'll be back :,)
He is fueled by hate and power (the triforce of power)
He also cursed future generations in the ending to oot
"Zelda lore isnt that deep"
Zelda lore:
Ganondorf ?
More like Canondorf...
I'll show myself out don't worry
Please do
Did you see the new trailer?
You bet I did! It was incredible! Even more hyped than ever! What did you think?
@@QuestWithAaron same, I am so pumped for TOTK even more!
Spoiler Alert: The Zonai Secret Stone was the source of his power, when Link destroyed the stone he ended both the Demon King and Ganon's reincarnation cycle. Ganondorf will return in the future obviously, but without the Malice/Gloom that made him unstoppable and he will no longer be able to summon monsters with the help of the Blood Moon. Sheikah technology will no longer be needed.
If i hear 'but in the Japanese version' one more time ...
Why
Ganon fate is resigned in hyrule historical prevented war to exist
Just like witness xenoblade chronicles 3 newest addition to includes xenoblade series war continues rages on some likes one started qwest killed or worse traitor they trying hard to restart over no matter costs another war without action going to take part xenoblade chronicles 3 trapped forever in endless war refuse to fight leader of the tribe
Fifth
Dude. Please tell me how you learned Japanese! The etymology in your videos never ceases to amaze me and I appreciate it so much 🥹