Is Ganondorf Redeemable? - Zelda Theory
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2020
- Is Ganondorf Redeemable? - Zelda Theory
Breath of the Wild 2 was quick to raise many questions, but one unexpected question the sequel has me asking is, well, is Ganondorf a redeemable character? Well, it's time to find out.
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#Zelda #BreathoftheWild2 #LegendofZelda - Hry
Groose the father of all Gerudo...
Ganondorf is his descendant...
I am on board on this theory!!!
Same my mind was blown
Groose needs to come back and give his great (x100) grandson a good telling off.
well, Ganondorf = Groose + Demise
This isn't a new theory.
You can even see how the name gerudo could have been derived from the name Groose!
I’ve thought of redeeming him before but seeing his plunge into evil is an amazing concept
And the original fallen timeline is where it's final conclusion is laid to bear. What if each branch of the timeline is represented by one fragment of the triforce and only by reconverting can things be made whole again? In the Fallen Timeline power corrupts the world and it's left in devastation. In the Child Timeline you venture through a scary world with unwavering courage. And in the adult timeline, the actions of the wise forever damage the world changing it fundamentally. The punishment of the gods would never have taken place if not for Zelda's wisdom to send Link back in time or the wisdom of the gods and their sycophants keeping it left in ruin. It's really strong in theme yo.
millgiass I’ve actually considered the timeline triforce aspect before, but I really love how you worded that
@@millgiass Stealing that for my head canon
@@sheikbazinga9378 I have no issue with that.
I would love that arc
The idea of Ganondorf “The Man” being overtaken by Ganon “The Curse” is interesting. think a lot would have to change in order for Ganondorf to have a redemption arc however (I mean story-wise. They would have to make the main Trio: Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link more dynamic characters).
I do think the best redemption arc he could have is simply breaking free of that Curse. Can you imagine if Ganondorf obtained the Triforce, and his only wish was to destroy the Curse of Demise? It acts both as a noble way to shield Hyrule from further damage and a semi-selfish way for Ganondorf to actually take hold of his life again.
I.... Want to write a fanfic about this, though it would be along the same vain as A Take of Two Rulers.
Link is just an unfortunate middle-man between two forces here, which is why I enjoyed the idea of Twilight Princess so much with The Hero's spirit having some kind of corruption/darkness.
I feel like, if the series ever has an ending, that would be it. Spot on
Imagine that, then the Triforce trio would be working together and that would be so cool to see that happen
@@testerfox6998 imagine Ganondorf and Link training together. Link with the master sword/a normal sword against Ganondorf with his god damn gerudo claymore from smash.
What do you think can happen when an almost immortal king, bearer of power that makes the gods tremble, who knows himself to be one of the most powerful beings to have lived, capable of conquering nations, learns that he is in reality only a tool, that all his power, his life, the destiny he created for himself, actually comes from the curse of a demon who died millennia ago ?
What can happen when a tool learns its true function and refuses to comply ?
The closest thing we will ever hear of a good Ganondorf was in a Cut Concept of Majora's Mask. In the Concept he was a fisherman
"What's that glare for, kid? Come sit down, stay awhile..."
"Don't tell me you fish with your bare hands."
"Tell you what, green kid."
"It's dangerous to swim alone, I ought to give you this before you wind up at zora cape."
You got the fishing rod!
I honestly didn't know this and might have to look it up. I wish they brought this back in MM3D or something if true. Can you imagine being Link and seeing some secluded hut in Great Bay, maybe on one of the cliffs, and deciding to check it out? Only to discover out the person inside is the spitting image of the King of Evil and he has no Master Sword?
It could have been the most surreal experience in that entire game. Ganondorf offering a smile and a wave at Link in greeting. Telling Link that he was supposed be the the leader of the Gerudo pirates, but he preferred an honest living. So they exiled him and he became a fisherman. Laying down some wisdom that his counterpart really could have used.
what's with ganon and fish? wanted to genocide zoras in ocarina of time and froze them all... almost had a fisherman counterpart in termina... complains about the sea not bearing fish in wind waker and gets distracted by a fishing rod in the final battle of twilight princess... is Ganondorf x Fish some kind of inside joke?
Hmm it my be some loose connection to make him something like the wounded fisher king of Arthurian Lore.
As the king is wounded, so are his lands.
In some iterations there's a wounded grandfather and a fisher grandson, or they are the same. I think Pellinore? Could be mistaken.
Looked up, nah Pellinore is someone different.
But yeah, the fisher king of Corbenic, aka wounded or maimed king. All ha can do is fish near his castle and wait till some knight helps him out by asking him a specific question.
Here's the wikipedia page:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_King
Ever since Skyward Sword I've wanted to see a Ganondorf without Demise. He may still not be the best person in any incarnation, but seeing him as himself at some point and not hatred incarnate would be great.
if windwaker ganondorf can forgive link for sealing him for hundreds of years and still have only the experiences of taking over hyrule left, he's good in that game.
@@williamtownsend8679 good but very twisted good
I can recommend you the Webcomic, The Two Rulers, which explores a what-if scenario if Zelda made peace with Ganondorf. It's *really* good.
I'd personally love a game where Link, Zelda and Ganondorf ally together against Demise in a massive final showdown against the abomination that has caused the ruin of Hyrule countless times
Sadly, however, while Zelda isn't an incarnation of Hylia, who just carries her blood, Ganondorf doesn't exist without demise. If you remove Demise from Ganondorf, then all that's left is an empty shell.
When you think about it.. Link and Ganondorf realy want the same thing. But they have completely opposing approaches; Like in Ocarina of Time - Link wants to find his place in the world while Ganondorf wants a world to be his own
Going with the flow Vs Controling the flow
In the end; they just want to "fit in"
Ganondorf only wants to hold the entire planet within a dictatorial grip and wipe out every living thing he sees.
@@danielthecake8617 depends which ganon, since the one in windwaker was more of just wanting to rule everything like a dictator, not genocide on the worlds populace since, well you know, if you got no people to rule then your the ruler of nothing so its a oxymoron stance at that point lol.
This theory is so beautifully tragic - to think that Groose, one of Link and Zelda’s closest friends, would be cursed to such a fate. My heart 😭
NOOOOO!!! Don't do this to me, that would be painful to accept
WAIT WAIT I WAS JUST WATCHING THIS VIDEO AND RIGHT AT 9:15 I THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!!! So, Windwaker's Link is the only hero who wasn't chosen by the goddess, right???? So that means that technically, there is no "spirit of the hero" in that game, right??? Therefore, since there is no hero, that means that Demise's curse (which states that anytime there is a princess and a HERO, his HATRED will follow them) was not activated and that means that Demise's hate is NOT present in the game!! Anyways, I haven't finished the video yet, I just wanted to write my thoughts down before I forgot.
What I was trying to say was basically that since Demise's curse isn't in Windwaker, Ganondorf wasn't being controlled by Demise's hate
@Ältere Weisheit Hmmm, that's a good point, I didn't think about it like that
@Ältere Weisheit Wow... that's deep lol
You're definitely onto something! I think that, since Windwaker follows the timeline in which there was no hero, that Demise's influence over Ganon was removed the moment Zelda sent Link back in time. With the evil influence gone, Ganondorf had time to reflect during his imprisonment, whereas the version from Twilight Princess, still under Demise's curse, used that time to stew on his anger and hatred.
i really believe in this theory- because, think about it.
1) WW Link is just a random boy who casually had his sister kidnapped by Ganon's bird
2) The master sword is gone
3)Ganon didnt really died and didnt really was sealed, he was like- just turned into rock
4) the only one that can pull out the master sword out of ganon's head is Link. so- they really broke the curse of demise in the Adult timeline
This is the most believable theory there even is on the whole Rehydrated (good) Ganondorf business. You've basically nailed every nail in the coffin with this one, now to wait and see what future news on botw 2 reveals.
I actually never even thought about this before. How in one scenario, ganondorf is a hate filled man whose only goal is revenge, and in the other he is a man who might actually be doing a good thing.
To road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Chris Ll true.
Because in one tineline he was never truly defeated hes still fueled by hate and his desire for conquest. In the other he had hundreds of years of silent self reflection in the Sacred Realm. But more important, TWW was humbled at his defeat.
@@ZiggyMandarr Hundred years of self-reflection? Or hundred years of plotting?
@@chrisll3438 likely both, i mean in hundreds of years even a man like Ganondorf would self reflect, imagining being stuck with urself and some shadow people for HUNDREDS OF YEARS, theres so much time for change
I'd love to see him as a constructive Villian.
He still embodies the evil but he uses his power to rebuild hyrule in his own image, even establishing towns and footholds that will lead to dungeons. and benefit the disguise attributes of clothes.
Example:
a Yiga Kakariko Village: a fortress city of Yiga that Link and Zelda must inflitrait using thier uniform. but instead of a military base they find a settlement; Childeren playing in the streets, Farmers harvesting Mighty Bananas and maybe even their own version of an Impa (Khoga's Mother/ Child) who greets your with a friendly and calm voice. Maybe there's side quests there for you to do.
The dungeon is an old Shiekah Temple similar to the shadow temple and it tells the story of Why the Yiga despise the kingdom adding depth to them as a people. With the final boss being the same village leader, who is torn that you are his enemy if you help out the village.
now that you mention it? from where do the yiga get their bananas?
@@BlaxeFrost-X I imagine they grow them in their bases and secluded fields
Since you find bananas in the wild around the faron region, maybe this yiga village/fortress could be there. Maybe even inside an old zonai structure or something to tie them into the story also.
*GENIUS*
I never knew I needed this, but now it's the greatest idea ever.
If you can redeem Skullkid because of Majora's influence, you can forgive Ganondorf for Demise's influence.
It isn't influence, Ganondorf IS demise. Ganondorf is Demise inside a mortal body. There isn't anything you can remove that "influence" because it's the only thing driving his body.
with majoras mask, the antagonist was the mask and not skullkid because the skullkid was just arandom guy who found an evil mask of a poweful being (theres a theory about the mask being the imp that hurt the vilagers and the hurt vilagers became the fierce deity mask, it's pretty cool)
@@danielthecake8617I suppose so, but what Demise did was curse Groose, so that he reincarnates into his descendants. As a despicable way to torture the three of them for all eternity.
@@OlimarLouie idiot. name one time demise said: I curse thee groose, to have no boys unless theyre edgy and evil!
The difference is, Skull Kid was "infected" by Majora's influence. Ganondorf IS Demise's influence manifested in the flesh.
The best to redeem him would be in a future game where so much time has passed that the Demon King's name has been forgotten, and Ganondorf reincarnates and is raised a good man and good king, and even befriends the Link and Zelda of his time. But when it is revealed that this Ganondorf is Ganon reborn, he fights against it and the man "Ganondorf" and the incarnation of Demise's curse "Ganon" are separated, becoming two wholy different beings.
That did strike up a memory. When my sister and I were kids, years before Skyward Sword, and based on what we saw happen to Nabooru, we'd theorized that Koume and Kotake had offered Gannondorf over to a demon in a ritual, and the man we fight is possessed.
That is pretty good, a wonderful theory
This makes more sense the more I think about it.
1:48 I know out of all of them, Windwaker's Ganondorf is the most sympathetic. He's still evil but he's not evil for the sake of evil. He has true motivation and feels like he's the hero of his own story.
In other words, Wind Waker Ganondorf is an anti-villain, or lawful evil. He's intentions may very well be noble, but his actions are skewed.
@@jiltedensign7479 a ends justify the means kinda ganon, one that seems okay with being the bad guy as long as he does what he consider whats best even if lifes will be lost in the process type of mentality.
personally like that version more then most ganons just because it has more plot potential then just big bad demon dude gets his ass kicked and wags his fist as a ghost ranting about how he will get them next time (metaphorically speaking, not literately lol).
Love to see a redeemed Ganondorf. I love evil Ganondorf too, and would be happy either way (I'm just glad Nintendo's bringing him back). Yes, I agree that he's not inherently evil, but was unfortunately born with a powerful curse attached to him. I'd love to see him without Demise's influence, without malice inflicting him... Just once... Because I'm not totally sure Ganondorf was fully free of Demise's hold in Wind Waker either (Puppet Ganon forms), but still, a redeemed Ganondorf would certainly be an interesting turn of events in the series, and a refreshing one at that. In conclusion, I'm happy just to have Ganondorf back in the series after so long, his last appearance was Twilight Princess all the way back in 2006 for goodness sake... I'm happy with whatever Nintendo wants to do with him. 🙂
Puppet Ganon seems a symbolic view of himself. Something pulled along by strings that can't be cut by himself. It's in the name after all, not Puppet of Ganon, but a Puppet Ganon, forced to dance to the whims of the darkness within.
There was a cut concept for Majora's Mask where you see the Termenian Counterpart of Ganon and he was a fisherman. That might be closest thing we got to a Good Ganondorf
@Saoirse McLeod that sounds really interesting
@@HighPriestFuneral Yeah, it could be because he realised he was just a puppet in the gods' hands (since Demise is powerful enought to be seen as some kind of evil god). After all, he had time to reflect.
While I don't feel like Ganondorf should be redeemable, I do think he should have some deep personality and even be conflicted with his own decisions. Not being evil for evil's sake
So more of an anti-villain like he was in Wind Waker at times, though this time with it being more on the forefront of the story while he's present instead of a minor detail due to the short nature of the main story.
Nakumare Exactly!
I think as long as the curse of demise keeps going ganondorf is bad. My theory, though I know it’s far fetched, is that Zelda might die, ending her bloodline which means no more curse. With that ended ganondorf is free
cookie kingdom yeah, but BOTW2 could be the end of the timeline game, no more heroes/princesses/legends or anything. That doesn’t mean the franchise ends, cuz there’s certainly potential for many games between some of the other titles.
@cookie kingdom Bro there are 10000 years of unexplored events in the timeline now. I think they're good with the series getting a definitive ending.
Ganondorf might be freed but if Zelda dies they will likely bring back Hylia. If Hylia is brought back then Demise will as well.
If the actual premise of the game is Link and Zelda getting separated, Ganondorf reviving at the cost of Zelda during the midpoint/first quarter. And at the end/midpoint Link trying to bring Zelda back only for Hylia and Demise to come back.
It is heavily implied that Demise's curse is related to malice. The process of extracting it creating calamity Ganon could be an attempt to recreate Demise. Riding Ganondorf of the curse likely means Demise rises again or something worse. Don't honestly think they will do it unless they either hard reset the series or just plan on ending it.
I would love a game where he is finally redeemed and joins Link and Zelda, freed from Demise's power and making a holy trinity.
They should make it the very last game in the timeline. Zelda,Ganandorf, and Link going to face demise to break the cycle of hatred once and for all
In the video, he says that Ganondorf is a FORM OF EVIL. Not a cursed person. This yter is nitpicking for all the bad parts he doesn't want and throws them away.
@@danielthecake8617 k
@@danielthecake8617 last i checked ganondorf and the curse are actually 2 seperate things just that the curse latches onto ganondorfs soul and uses it to reincarnate (same function as majoras mask just with the soul instead of the body).
I heard about the Groose being the founder of the Gerudo theory shortly after Skyward Sword came out and I've been a fan ever since. The idea of Groose going on to live in a harem of only women, and how that's definitely too spicy for LoZ, is hilarious to think about. I believe they settled in the _Sand Sea_ area, Groose just couldn't resist living in walking distance from that rollercoaster... My belief is actually that only the _Sand Sea_ area is what became _Gerudo Desert,_ while _Lanayru Gorge_ eventually filled up with water and became _Lake Hylia_ and the the area labeled as _Lanayru Desert_ was rejuvenated and became known as _Hyrule Field,_ with _Hyrule Castle_ built on the site of the old _Temple of Time._
Scenario:
Ganondorf finds redemption. He and the Gerudos leave Hyrule to find a new land to call home.
It shall be called... *Ganonland* ...
I like the name its very legend of zelda like
Sounds like a theme park
Oh also, I just started diving deep into the similarities between Princess Mononoke and breath of the wild, and the fact that one of the main character's arm is corrupted granting him super human strength is super crazy. Buuuut what's even crazier is that the corruption eventually kills him, sooo is this what's going to happen to link. Also the demon that gave the corruption ends up revealing itself as a god of boars that was corrupted by an iron ball lodged into it's body. Metaphorically Ganondorf has an iron ball (demise curse) lodged in his body or attached to him, and when the curse is released he is like groose or like wind waker Ganondorf. A man that isn't a saint but has good intentions and ultimately helps the hero in the quest to defeat the ultimate evil. I can actually see something like this happening in a Zelda game, not necessarily BOTW2 (Idk at this point😂). But, if this were to happen I feel like it would create a literal end to a huge chunk of what the Zeldas series even is. It would be what skyward sword did for the origin story, but it would be the end of the line because demise curse would be destroyed.
flippin brad that’s really interesting with the similarities! And I’m even more intrigued if Link is the one who meets his fate. So many theories have stated that Its Zelda who will die. At age 17, she’s no kids on the way, so no future princess. If she kicks the bucket now without a directly related heir, that’s it. Her bloodline ends and so would the curse. But it’d be interesting if we went down the path of Link dying instead. Which makes me wonder if that’s gonna be the main premise of this upcoming game. Either Link or Zelda has to die. Zelda’s death could be so long as it’s a mortal wound she can’t recover from, whereas Link dying via that hand or some kind of corruptive magic is fair. Hell, make the final boss the one you don’t pick corrupted by malice. You fight the Malefic Godess as Link or the Corrupted Hero as Zelda, and maybe in a special mode you unlock later both live and ends Demise’s curse or something? Idk, but thoughts?
@@downbeatdialga1341 I love everything you just said. It only makes sense that some big event will take place that reveals a shift in the Zelda lore, because there's just way too many crazy symbolistic things present in the reveal trailer of botw 2. And the similarities with mononoke make it that much more evident. Obviously Rehydrated Ganondorf has been more of a joke/meme to most fans, but if we're being completely honest and to the point here anything can happen really. Early concept art of botw literally shows Ganondorf in normal-non mummified form atop Hyrule Castle which is floating in the sky (I bet the devs were wishing they didn't reveal this stuff now😂). Also, link in concept art is weilding a broken master sword, which would support any kind of theory having to do with deep lore on the consequences of the master sword being destroyed or broken. There's just way too much mystery at this point, Nintendo needs to drop a trailer, or give a little bit more info.😂
I think the only actual problem is this. It would be the end. And I don't think Nintendo is ever going to end the zelda series. So, the closer of Ganondorf being Link and zelda allies would surely be like in Hyrule Warriors, were fans loves to imagine when you are not on the story mode anymore, they are all in the same army. (which can give really funny comic too)
@@orianefaton1885 I mean, this could def be the end of the timeline without being the end of the series. The first game published wasn't skyward sword.
@@orianefaton1885 why not have demise curse take over someone new
Humm,i don't belive we will see a redeamed Ganondorf, in fact, i belive the Ganondorf in BOTW 2 will be the most evil and deadly we have seen so far. The fact that his malice and hatred,still pouring out of his dead body is so intence, it corrupted the very land and created a even more demonic ganon, that really shows that this new Ganondorf will be far more dangerous, and evil then others before him.
This is probably true knowing Nintendo. I do also consider the option that all the malice pouring out is actually Demise's curse being removed from him. His body could be being purified in essence.
@@balthezaar100 it is possible, i see the blue hand as something trying to keep the malice inside, but being so powerfull it keeps leaking and spreading out. If that is really what is happening, then its a scary thought, the Ganon you face in Breath of the wild 1 is only the malice that escaped, imagine the full malice and power of this Ganon in action.
@@accord0067 I know. This could be a Ganon as strong as Demise himself. Whatever the hand's purpose, we will find out when the game releases.
@@balthezaar100 very possible, i am quite eager to see what BOTW 2 will show off. Things so far are pointing at to one epic adventure and showdown with Ganon.
the hand might be purifying ganon, and thats why the malice is leaking out. it mightve taken links arm as an equal trade. as stated before, this is rooted from demise. so, in theory if ganondorf is purified then demises malice would obviously flood out and try and go somewhere else right
I've always wondered and thought a good way to redeem him is have his spirit in the new game guild link like rhom did in the first. And once it's all over ganondorf thanks link for freeing him and giving him a chance to redeem himself by aiding him on his and zelda's quest.
I think Ganondorf here in BotW2 was the ancient hero that sacrificed himself to save Hyrule against the “Calamity” but only slowed it down and gave it a face.
Even in The Wind Waker, where Ganondorf is the least "twisted", I think he only wanted to return Hyrule to the way it was so he could rule it once again. He explanations of his feelings at the end were just excuses to justify himself and persuade Link & Zelda to hand over their Triforce pieces to him.
If Demise's "Demon Curse" is indeed a separate entity that enacts its will upon Ganondorf to make him want to do twisted, evil things, then I do think that Ganondorf's differences in The Wind Waker are explained by him lacking some of his powers for a large part of the story (Until the Master Sword is drawn), these powers could well be linked to the "Demon Curse".
In the end, I think Ganondorf will always be a selfish man who had a bad upbringing in a harsh land, so even if he was separated from the "Demon Curse" he wouldn't change much.
That is a great video though, and about a very interesting topic!
How many people would be gullible enough to be smooth talked into handing over the triforce to someone abducting all the girls... 🙄
@@chrisll3438 It was worth a try! ;)
then think of a Ganondorf that would have a good upbringing, without harsh living conditions, maybe even one growing up with Link, he wouldn't be selfish then, but maybe the curse would still want to corrupt him, and if it did, then he would want to be redeemed
@@Solibrae Well, what a try it was 😆. You know, I don't think he'd be affected by the curse seeing as he wasn't around for that. He literally is Demise, his reincarnate.
@@chrisll3438 Nice someone i actually agree with
I stumbled on this theory some time ago and it makes perfect sense and I wouldn't mind seeing Ganondorf free from the curse. He can hit like bus running a stop sign in a school zone and can be a super chill dude.
This is a really interesting concept. I can see the source of Malice being Demise using Ganondorf's corpse as a vessel for his curse.
I love the way you present your vids. The arguments are compelling, the stories are well told, and the vids are well researched. Keep up the good work!
Im not done with the video yet but you have NO idea how happy it made me to see you mention Groose as Ganondorf's ancestor!!!! I love SS so much and he's such a golden character from it!!!! Thank you for making this theory, it's the exact thought process Ive had on my mind for months now!
I wonder if being sealed away by Links victory may have given him more time to think. Being trapped in Twilight, I think it turned him into a very different person.
Solitary confinement usually doesn't make people better though lol
@@OatmealTheCrazy true, but it's hard to predict what'll happen in a fantasy world. Especially if the writers are unaware.
He did also 'win' for 7 years, maybe that could somehow play into it?
Aside from this being Zelda-related, your video's dialogue is what caused me to subscribe! Keep up the good work!
The hand on ganons chest says seal ganon though so it can't be taking the essence of demise out of him I watched another theory explaining that the hand could be taking the energy from ganons body to power hyrule
Actually It doesn’t say that, it might be close but the Gerudo script just doesn’t match up
very good video and theory, i wish your idea was the one used for the first Botw's plot! ^^
the way i see the Demise's curse in Ganondorf is that that even if Ganondorf was a good character and wanted to do good, his actions would always bring misfortune/destruction, and it works like that in WW too- his goal was good, but the curse twisted the events into things going badly, so that even if he was a good character in Botw 2, destruction would surround him, unless they got rid of that curse :)
however, Groose being the father of Gerudo is impossible for a very simple reason: Gerudo Desert isn't called Grooseland, and Gerudo aren't called Grooselings, so yeah, that just doesn't work xP
Language shift?
Or it's an Israel situation. The Land of Israel is named for the 3rd man in the line of Abraham, not Abraham himself.
I remember hearing somewhere that they were going to have a friendly fisherman Ganondorf in Majora's Mask but removed him. I just think it would be funny to see link's face X)
Dude, this by far has to be one of my favorite videos on CZcams period. Your theory and reasoning, your deliverance and cadence, your song selections, your scene selection and editing....everything about this video really made me smile. Xenogamer, please continue doing what you're doing. I will remember this video for decades to come.
Great job.
Zombie Ganondorf looks like Eddie, the Iron Maiden mascot
Ganondorf, after being unsealed, goes on to forsake Hyrule, and instead became the icon of a successful Metal band.
Yo this is crazy! I was just thinking about this concept last night and then just found this video! I shared a lot of these thoughts and agree with you 100%. Great theory!!
10:23 is link's best face ever
Regarding the curse, I'd argue it's not quite something that influences Ganon's free will per se. It's more like "someone, somewhere, will cause problems for you". It's influence is simply to empower someone to cause problems, and the person who happens to be in the best place to do that is usually Ganon. This both helps and harms the idea of him turning good.
On the negative end, it means Ganon is fully responsible for his own evil and it's not an external cause per se. I'd argue his increasing twistedness is not any supernatural event, just a guy becoming increasingly more extreme while slowly forgetting their original aims. This happens in real life all the time. His sympathetic motives caused him to hate, and he got addicted to that hatred, and to power, and perhaps to justifying himself. His old motives are no longer as important to him. In addition, I'd argue he embraces evil because he's too afraid of the shame he thinks he'd feel if he didn't.
On the positive end, it means that Ganon is perfectly within his ability to turn good. In fact, this would probably count as 'beating him' which is something that Link and Zelda do all the time. It would, however, just cause Demise to shrug and find a new champion. This would actually be kind of interesting, Ganon turning good and teaming up with Zelda and Link to stop a new bad guy.
For what it's worth, I'd argue that, yes, Ganon can turn good. He's a fairly terrible person, but he's also not quite an incorrigible monster like Palpatine, Ridley, or Red Skull. He's just a regular ol' warlord too drunk on the hatorade, which is an unfortunately rather popular beverage. It'd require something fairly incredible to happen to him, but I could see him realizing how far he's fallen, look in the mirror, and decide to change.
If he was a good guy once, he can be one again.
Underrated creator.
I think the best way to step up your content is to have more confident/sure delivery.
I still miss when it was speculated to be called the legend of Zelda timeless arrow
Thats....PERFECT! Skyward Sword Was The Predecessor So,Timeless Arrow Is Perfect If It Was Called That Then Sequel Would Called Something Like Blocked Shield?
You know, I’ve always yearned for something like that. Legend of Zelda has always been a canonically Good VS Evil story. I would love to face a more “morally gray” Ganondorf. I think a story like that would be something that compliments BOTW’s new style, and adds that extra spice of story which makes it even more amazing.
Ever since completing WindWaker, i've always had the thought of Ganondorf being good. His whole concept in WW was to restore Hyrule. Never said anything about ruling it, just restoring it back to its former glory and tbh... i was all for it. Listening to him speak and watching his demeanor in WW, he was a lot more... humble i guess. Calm and perhaps regretful maybe? it's the first time i've actually seen him so calm and not hyped up on Triforce Juice all the time.
Many good points and food for thought, though since I’ve been convinced that the corpse in the botw2 trailer is the same ganondorf from twilight princess, I sadly don’t think that particular incarnation can be redeemed..
Proposal regarding windwaker ganondorf the reason why ganondorf was more calm is because of in his time sealed he came to reflect on his actions.
I kind of hope that a good Ganondorf is in a game with a Rito version of Vaati as the villain.
Don't know about Ganondorf, but I have wondered about the monsters you see in breath of the wild.
It's hard for me to imagine any Sapient intelligent creature being inherently evil. Born to fight against Hylia. I like to imagine that in the sequel, a few monsters would want to break their curse and be free from the calamity. Perhaps, they would even play a role in the fight against Ganondorf after his return.
Provided it's well written, I'm in.
However, given how much inspiration BOTW obviously took from Princess Mononoke and the themes therein, I would prefer an exploration of the corruption hatred causes. Basically Ganondorf has been oozing malice for so long because he's filled with nothing but hatred and has been that way for over 10,000 years. I don't know how much original Ganondorf is left in him.
Wow, I loved this video. I started playing BOTW this March and have been watching a bunch of theory videos since then and ever since I found out about Groose, I always thought he was the first Gerudo and that's why the Ganondorf is part of the curse. I do think Ganondorf is redeemable especially since it seems the beast Ganon isn't truly a part of him but I don't have enough faith in TPTB to use this plot point
Man this was a great theory, I think it would be awesome if Ganondorf's redemption could be thing in a possible future game.
I’m glad you made this video because I had the same theory about Ganondorf’s potential redemption.
In one instance, Ganondorf originally didn’t want to be the despot his predecessors were. In the end he sacrificed himself to keep the Malice at bey. In another instance, he doesn’t want change but wants to end the cycle just as much as Link and Zelda do and would spitefully go against Demise. If he knew why he reincarnate every so often, he would most likely want to take the reigns of his own destiny rather than let Demise be the reason for his inner demons.
Yeah, he isn't the sort of man to "bend the knee" as it were, and finding out that Demise (Who mind you as the Japanese translation which is the OG one that's in Nintendo's homeland) before he was sealed within the Master Sword and had his heart, mind and soul: his consciousness decay until there was nothing left of him of the course of 1000 years cursed Link and Zelda as a sort of petty and spiteful spit on their faces as he apparently couldn't handle being defeated and doomed to Oblivion would likely have him infuriated at Demise for trying to force him into doing what he wanted over petty revenge with his dying breath and he'd likely try to do anything and everything to see that Curse shattered beneath his boots. Not to say he'd be a good man, Sweet Merciful Chakravartin no, but rather there would be room for a more... nuanced take on Gannondorf with the Curse out of the way (Let's be honest: I've very little doubt the Curse more abusing the hell out of what's effectively a Reincarnation system of Afterlife that the Zelda series has rather than forcing it, not to mention there are OTHER ways to explain a threat to Hyrule other than a curse is responisble. And as for Proof I give you two key figures: Impa who Demise DIDN'T curse and yet we see incarnations of her and Midna WHO may I remind you was likely the ONLY key player to impact and utterly ruin sans AoC Ganondorf's plans as he would have been able to keep Link from fucking them up were it not for Midna effectively freeing him! Why'd Midna be able to get off scot free and Impa kept Reincarnating when the latter wasn't targeted by Demise's last words/curse despite having an incarnation even HELP that Link and Zelda and Midna was the key player in allowing Link to at least have a chance to fight back HUH?!) where he can be either an Anti-Villain as I've SEEN at least one REALLY good one (Persona 5 Royal anyone?) and we saw the potential for a scenario where he's the main antagonist but he ALSO has his own points which make sense... the problem ultimately leading to Link and Zelda having their conflict with the King of Thieves being more along the lines of the methods rather than the ends he's working towards!
Well here’s a rather good question if that the curse gets broken what would happen next I mean what be the next big threat and would the threat be so big that you have to play as Link,Zelda and as Gannondwarf like a RPG party but your able to switch between the 3 characters depending on the situation of the story
A new Demon King most likely. Much like Malladus from Spirit Tracks.
common viewer I feel like that he’s just a small time threat I mean I feel like that they would need a bigger threat something that could make a real big entrance something that could make a really big statement something that could make demise look like a saint compared to what ever the next big threat is going to be
@@elementalheroneos2757 The fabled Tetraforce, perhaps. Each piece of the Triforce was left by the Creator Goddesses, so what if Demise were to create his own piece with his passing? One created from vice, not virtue? I present the Tetraforce of Envy. A malevolent magical force that would empower those envious of what others have, and grant them the power to steal whatever abilities others have for themselves. Over time, a person with this ability may reach the point of being capable of felling and replacing gods.
common viewer well that could work but do you think that Nintendo and the rest of the legend of Zelda fans would like that
It literally could be anything, look at Majoras Mask. That game took next to nothing from the main zelda lore for it's story.
Botw2 better have a decent final boss these time and not a scarier more powerful version of the same bosses we faced before.
I have a feeling that this Zelda has the motivation to finally put a stop to Demise's curse and I hope that Botw2 feels like a real Zelda game.
"I have a feeling that this Zelda has the motivation to finally put a stop to Demise's curse,"
Agree or disagree, I love love love this. This Zelda, first insecure in herself, and having found her voice/power, could be the catalyst of change to end Demise's (otherwise-)eternal curse! If they go this route, the story's end could be incredibly emotionally satisfying.
That's why he was laughing insanely when hyrule was flooded, he dedicated his life to saving his people and in the end, his people wanted to destroy him and the world he gave his life to save came crashing in around him.... I'd lose my mind and just start laughing too, then get stabbed through the face and turned to stone.. oh man, wow that..... Wow.... Ow.... that hurts my heart.
Also, I suspect that Hyrule being flooded by the gods broke the curse as there IS no Hyrule and as such no true Princess. "So long as there is a _Princess_ and a hero..."
It would explain why he could see clearly now - He no longer was under the curse, the curse shifted to Demise's generals - Other demons like Bellum, Vaati (the only other repeating villain), Malladus and Cole, and so on
He’s always had redeemable qualities, the fandom just chooses to ignore them unfortunately...
Yes, The clearest displayed in the mellowed out older Gannondorf seen in WW.
i don't buy it. ganondorf in wind waker is still ruthless. willing to abduct and beat up children to get what he wants. and in all likelihood he wants to bring hyrule back so he can rule it.
to say he was in his own way motivated by good in that gave makes no sense, because in that game he states his motives for his actions in ocarina of time as being the same.
Oh good someone who isn't stupid and thinks he was good in wind waker you get a like from me
Just subbed to your channel after watching this vid. Great job man!
Dude, this theory is awesome! I love it.
He’s the one who really needs to be saved
Groose the founder of the Gerudo...🤔 Very interesting theory indeed 🙂
Fantastic video! Tbh the first moment I saw Groose on screen, I thought, “well there’s the original Ganondorf” so you convinced me. Groose turned out to be a complex character, so why should his ancestors be any different, especially when you consider that single Y chromosome hasn’t been passed around and evolved very much, given that there’s only one male every 100 years.
But now I’m gonna get sad for the Ganondorf who has been sealed by that hand for millennia upon millennia...
Unrelated but 1:32 had me LOL so hard.
I feel that ganondorf needs to die in some way and be replaced with another villain his story arc has to end freshen the series up
Me too either redeem or die or maybe be redeemed then die. I also think the master sword should be destroyed even though it’s the coolest you can have too much of a good thing. I’d also like to see more games in the series following botw2 to leave hyrule and check out new provinces whether inhabited or not and not to start a new by rule like spirit tracks. I just think all of these things have been explored so much why don’t we move on from them it would freshen the series up even more and Nintendo could pull it off I believe in them.
dang, you made me sympathise with ganondorf... how could you.
Seeing him going from a good leader who wants the best for his people to hate possessed king AND THEN to someone who doesn't want to be controlled from Demise's curse (nerdgasm) would be AMAZING
What happens if you play the song of healing to ganon
1- scare the evil out of him
2-turn him into nothing
I know everyone wants to see a rehydrated ganon and him turning good, I just dont want to see a good guy ganon because it just wont seem right, like I think that seeing ganon rehydrated will be cool if he like steals the tri force of power and he becomes rehydrated
Actually good guy Ganondorf could work with one extreme twist. The curse of demise was being extracted from him by the spectral hand and when it bonded to Link in the trailer the curse went with it. Basically good, cleansed Ganondorf, evil, cursed Link.
The closest he was to being redeemable was probably during Wind Waker... he was humble, honest about what drove him to covet Hyrule and had failed.
This is a really interesting theory. It reminds me similar to the Dragon Ball series with King Piccolo and his reincarnation/son, Piccolo Jr. Goku kills King Piccolo and spews the egg containing his son, birthed only to avenge his death and carries the hatred of the one who killed him, similar to Demise. Whereas Piccolo Jr. is inherently evil upon his debut like Ganondorf, he is defeated and shown mercy. by Goku. Eventually Piccolo Jr is redeemed when he befriends the son of his archrival: Gohan. He goes on to become good and even sacrifices life to save Gohan.
I don't really think Ganon should be redeemed. His "evil for a purpose" in Windwaker was the most I can see him going.
Still, I think that Ganondorf should at least be freed from cycle. Let another one become incarnation of evil (preferably, from another tribe).
GIVE US A GOOD GERUDO KING!
I don't agree with what you said about Ganondorf's motivation in Wind Waker. Wind Waker Ganondorf may seem like a changed man, but deep down he's still the power hungry monster he's always been. His actions in the game speak much louder than any of his words.
But is it him or Demise? 🤔
@@prosperstarling3513 They are the same character you idiot Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demises malice and malice in the games is the pure form of hatred and darkness and we have to asume that Demises malice is the purest form of malice since Demise is the most evil thing in hyrule and the games in general
I don’t think ganondorf could get to the point of hugging it out with link and Zelda, but having him be a cursed man who we set free would be so cool. Having power,wisdom and courage come together for the first time would be an amazing moment
And will end the curse
Great video. Way more depth than I expected.
I believe that ganondorf shouldn’t be redeemed as after so many years of killing ganondorf knowing he would some how return I think killing ganondorf once and for all would be more fulfilling than seeing him redeemed . Almost like a twilight princess-Esk final battle with a climactic final battle duel with you and ganondorf being one hit for death and knowing that either one of you could hit the final blow.
Well I'd say most villains have the option to redeem them if you really want to do it. But...I'm fine with not going there with Ganondorf. Oh sure, you can make him more complicated. You can even like some games make him a bit sympathetic.
But I'd rather not completely redeem him. He stands as a good piece of the puzzle with Link and Zelda. They each have their place and role in the story. And while you can get a bit creative, I'd rather keep Ganondorf as a great threat that requires epic boss battles to knock him down.
Ganondorf is now my favorite character and this video has made me love Zelda more
Ya'll need to check out "Growing up Gerudo" on Webtoon, where Ganondorf is Link's adoptive father. Mostly OoT, but also a lot more. TP is included. It's a really good series so far. Has yet to be completed.
That's sad. Groose was pulled into a preordained fate.
Like everyone else? Also, we don't know what happens to him after Skyward Sword.
Meh...
Since there is really never only *one* ganon, Nintendo could have an opportunity to play with that idea
A few thoughts. 1) The phrase "When this seal is broken..." could mean the Ganondorf in Windwaker is him still sealed. Well, not him, the man, but the curse is sealed. It's completely believable that he would want benefits for his land and people and for the first time in that game is going about achieving that "his" way. Not influenced or guided by hatred. 2) What if, in Twilight Princess, his death was only partial; the man died, but the hatred still remained, and contained within. I still believe the hand in his chest is over where the sword pierced him, and by sword I mean the master sword. What if the hand isn't an ancestor or a sorcerer to contain the evil...what if it is the spirit of the sword trying to continue it's task of "sealing the evil". It would explain why the sword is not as powerful in the previous games, as most of it's energy has been trying to contain the evil. We only have the memories to go on in BotW, but there is no instance of the master sword being used at it's full potential. Yes we are told the 'spirit of the sword spoke to Zelda when Link fell' to take him to the Resurrection chamber, but what if, like Zelda, it was only communication through a link. (pun maybe intended.)
*Is Ganondorf Redeemable?*
No.
Simple Answer:
No
BOTW Link being half-gerudo is one of those theories that is super cool but has little to no evidence to back it up but at the same time has no evidence proving it isn't false so it stays in the back of your mind and it's next to impossible to let go so it's really frustrating knowing this theory will probably never be confirmed but you still want it to be true even though you don't have and probably will never enough proof to actually make a case for it.
That thumbnail artist is insanely good
I honestly like the idea of Link being related to Ganondorf. They do show in game the Gerudo have to leave in search of potential partners if they want to start a family and a male child being born with the physical genetics of a Gerudo is rare. Link and Ganondorf being twins would make a very interesting plot point. In game lore makes this not possible but it would be cool to see in a future game.
On a related note I always found it odd that the Hero in the tapestry looks like a Gerudo. The only game I played that made me wonder if Link was Gerudo was A Link to the Past. His appearance being so similar to the thieves and his red/pink hair made me wonder. I know the artwork showed otherwise but that depends on if you consider the comic to be canon.
I love the idea here, but I especially love the way you presented it. This video is so full of emotion and it was awesome!
Isn't wind waker the only game without a goddess chosen hero as well? So maybe the curse of demise left that Ganondorf because the requirements were no longer met? 🤔🤔🤔 Things to think about...
I think it would be awesome if he was redeemed or even better what if we got a game in the future were Ganondorf starts out as the hero who is slowly corrupted by Demise's malice
I have been a Zelda fan for.....9 years I am still Learning about how everything works in the Zelda universe
In order for Ganondorf to be redeemed, an evil far greater than Ganon would have to be introduced to replace him and carry the franchise forward, otherwise the zelda series ends.
Demise's consciousness was destroyed in Skyward Sword, left to decay within the Master Sword for years to come. The curse simply manifests Demise's undying hatred for the gods into a physical being, that being the Gerudo King Ganondorf, so Demise himself couldn't make a grandiose return.
However, the trailer shows a shadow of a large humanoid attacking Ganondorf shortly before being sealed, whose hand is latched into Ganondorf's chest. Interestingly , the hand is the same model as those of the Blight Ganons, which may actually hint at this being being evil in some way.
I would actually like a game. Where his soul is saved, and all three together ends evil once and for all. At least the old evil that have had the impact on the world for so long.
A new evil can turn up in the future still. But the circle has to end one day.
That was a dope video! Well done Sir.
Having Ganondorf be a mentor/Brother to Link to let us witness his fall would be soo good. It would add weight to the final battle. Sadly, Nintendo chooses to focus on gameplay over narrative. Im ready for the series to grow up some more.
Edit: To date, Wind Wakers Ganondorf is the best depiction imo.
I know right!? I don't understand why Nintendo is so afraid of making compelling narratives.
Honestly, if they somehow get the Demise's curse out of Ganondorf and it turns out he's like Groose, I feel like that'd be the end of the Zelda series timeline since it'd come full circle, with it beginning from Link, Zelda, and Groose from Skyward Sword and ending with the same trio.
...Well, that doesn't mean it's the end for the games, of course. Wonder if they'd make a new villain though, like the Yiga?
This guy definitely works for the Yiga Clan...
Maybe Ganondorf is more free in windwaker because he spent an age sealed within the sacred realm, an uncorrupted realm of the trio of goddesses, no influence from Demise there
It’s possible that the curse could abandon him to infect someone else