Besides the Diesel engine of course the road ranger transmission is the single greatest invention to come to the trucking industry in my opinion. Easy to service very strong many different options to suit whatever the need may be. Engineering at its finest
They were a game changer without a doubt. The first successful twin-countershaft HD truck transmission and the first “range change” type “married” multi-speed transmission. They changed the truck manufacturing industry to a point where they had a near-monopoly for decades because their design was so good. When the original Road Ranger (a 10 speed design with a cable or linkage range selector) came out Spicer was the leader in HD truck transmissions by a good margin with Fuller, Clark, Rockwell, and a few others also in the game. Mack was building their own “married” transmissions but these were essentially just a main / auxiliary twin transmission setup bolted together instead of using an intermediary driveline. They were non synchronized “split shift” type single countershaft designs much like the “married” 4x4 spicer boxes. The strength and ease of operation of the RR boxes basically directly caused Mack’s development of the 5 speed triple countershaft “Maxi-torque” transmission and its future derivatives as well as the “Maxidyne” high torque diesels that worked with them in order to replace their weak and comparatively complex single countershaft “X-plex” transmissions. Spicer came up with a stop-gap measure by introducing twin countershaft main and auxiliary transmissions to deal with the higher power and torque diesels were starting to make as well as offering air-shifted auxiliary transmissions that used their existing designs and simply replaced the lever and linkage shifter setup with two air cylinders to actuate their shift rails, but these were still fully non-synchronized and far more complex to operate than the RR’s simple single lever, synchronized range shift “repeat pattern” setup. In spite of this Spicer was able to hang on to a greatly decreased but still respectable part of the market because their models still offered several more sequential forward (and twice as many reverse) useable gear ratios than the RR 10 and “15” speed units did, with up to 16 unique forward gears available depending on the combination specified…..but they wouldn’t have that advantage for long. Building on their success with the launch of the 13 speed Fuller did a lot to close that gap and take even more of the market from their competition, even offering “double overdrive” models that had a top gear ratio of 0.63:1, taking away yet another advantage from Spicer who offered combinations with overdrive top gears in both the main and auxiliary transmissions that allowed for higher road speeds in trucks with more “hill-friendly” drive axle ratios. To compete with the 15 speed and 8LL Mack also developed the “6 speed” and 10 & 12 speed maxi torque boxes, the latter using a synchronized, air shifted, close ratio “splitter” type married auxiliary section to give 12 forward speeds with only 5 or 6 shifter movements. In the late 70’s even Mack saw the value in the fuller design and began developing the “2100 series”, a triple countershaft “range change” type transmission that operated on the exact same principle as the RR. By this time Spicer had lost all but a niche’ share of the market, selling mostly to older owner operator and heavy haulers who were already proficient in operating their more complex 2-shifter setups and didn’t want to change to something when what they had worked well for them. They also began more heavily marketing a simpler 7 speed HD twin countershaft transmission for vocational trucks which didn’t use a “range Change” pattern and used simple shifter with 7 forward positions in a single transmission to compete with the 8LL and Mack 5/6 speeds. By the late 80’s the 18 speed RR had come out and it was a game-changer again, offering as many or more forward gears as a two stick setup would in a robust, reliable, familiar and easy to use package, and all it took was adding an extra bearing and retainer to the already existing 13 speed design. By this point the dual transmission Spicer setups were only sold to die-hard fans and even Dana/ Spicer and Rockwell were building “range change” 9,10,13 and 18 speeds that were essentially knockoffs of the Roadranger design. By the 90’s After Mack killed off the 5/6/12 speed family literally every manual or AMT truck transmission was a knockoff of the Roadranger and it’s been that way ever since all the way up to today.
It’s a shame they married 4, 5 and 6 speed automatics to all these production 3/4-2-1/2 ton trucks. The Cummins has many different flywheel and clutch sizes to work with many different transmissions so the Cummins mated to this RTO 610 is without a doubt the best transmission for an application like this.
To anyone wondering about the history behind these “baby Road-Ranger” transmissions with the shifter mounted air button operated cointershaft brake, I’ll share what I know about these interesting units. These were the “baby 10/13 speeds”, models RT(O) 610, 613, 6610 and 6613. They all use the same housing and the same parts in the 5 speed “front section”. The difference in the “66” series and the regular “6” is the 66’s use bevel cut gears in the timed, air shifted “back / range box” for quieter, smoother operation over the straight cut gears in the 610 and 613. The “13” speed models in this series were extremely unique as they were actually a 15 speed in design because they used the 610/6610 10 speed box with a deep reduction auxiliary section on the back…..but unlike all the other “15 speeds” these were actually named accurately. All 15 speeds are built on the same formula (10 speed main box with deep reduction added) but they don’t actually offer 15 non-repeating forward gears. Shifting sequentially a 15 speed only has 13 unique forward ratios you can use, the last 2 deep reduction gears are actually slower than the lowest two “regular” gears. The shift pattern for the 613/6613 is actually the pattern you use in all the 15 speeds to get from the lowest gear to high without shifting down again. Of course all the other “13 speeds”also offer 13 unique forward gears as well but they do it a different way, giving 5 gears in low range and 8 in high by using a a “splitter” type auxiliary section in the high range gears…..All the other 13’s (along with and 8LL and 18 speed) are built on the 9 speed main box, but they didn’t make a 9 speed as small as the 6/66 series making the baby 10 and 13 “one-off” models with no replacement after they stopped production. They are (conservatively) rated for 600 ft-lbs of input torque and were actually pretty common in medium duty trucks with air brakes from the late 60’s up to the 80’s…..they basically replaced the “twin stick” 4/5 x 3/4 transmissions common in the higher GVW “medium duty” model trucks at the time and were a common retrofit to these trucks as well. The most common application I’ve seen them in is Ford L700(0)/800(0)’s with the 534 Gas, 3208 or 8.2 Detroit but they were popular in similarly sized and powered IH and GM trucks as well.
I had a 75 ford f250 with a Perkins 6 cyc and a RT610. I loved that truck, nice thing about the road ranger trans is it only has 400 rpm drop between gears. Mine had a 16 in clutch, and a flywheel from a c60 truck.
Hats off to you! You can pull as much as you are comfortable with, without killing the engine. I have wanted to do this to my 2009 Chevy dually with a tired 6.0 gas and a 6l80e auto… Cummins and a 10 speed swap
A I am no mechanic at all but I am in awe at how you guys do this stuff . I am a carpenter / builder by trade but am always blown away at builds like this as engineering / mechanical is all witchcraft to me but I appreciate the skill and knowlege that goes into this kind of bespoke work !! 👏👏👏
Used to herd tandems with 3208's and 466's and all had 13-unders with the countershaft brake. Used just for getting it in gear or either scrubbing for a week while waiting or just shut the diesel off and yank it. A 13-under has it all. Moved a 20 ton track loader on a 20 ton rated tilt top trailer and never missed a lick here in the hills. Always wanted a G.I. 5-ton with a 10-speed. Herded a Pete tri-axle with a 3406 and empty went from lo-3rd, lo-5th, hi-3rd, hi-5th. Never did know what a load was. Blessings!
What many call a “13 under” AKA RT(O) 613 6613, is one of the most misunderstood RR transmissions because they advertised it so strangely. They are actually a “15 speed” in every single way except name. They are a 610/6610 front box with a deep reduction auxiliary section….the exact same formula that makes a “15 speed”. The truth is the 15 speed only has 13 sequential forward gears and the pattern to get through them is the same as the 6/6613. The last two “deep reduction” gears on a 15 are faster than the lowest two “regular” gears. Every other model 13 speed are all either a 9 speed front box with either a direct / overdrive splitter (913-14613) or a direct / under drive splitter (models built after the early 90’s when they standardized the shift patterns). It’s funny because the true “13 underdrive” transmissions are actually the “13 direct” / 9 speed derived RT and FR models. This makes the “baby 13 / 13 under” a one of a kind model, it’s the only 13 speed to use a 10 speed main box instead of a 9.
All I know is that a 13-under had 13 equal ratio shifts (3lolo, 5lo, 5direct) as does a 15 or a 4x4 or a Mack quad box. Quads were a double o.d. with the main direct in 4th and one more split left in the aux- Lo split, direct, hi split. Never drove a o.d. box here in the hills but one in a mixer with a 9-speed o.d. and a 6-71 but plenty of all the rest as far as 9's and 8LL's and sich but liked the 5x4's and 13-unders and 4x4's the best. A 10 was hard to beat too as well as a 12. The 1st was a 6-speed overgear according to the diagram, a 2-stick job with a 237 and a quad with a Thermodyne after the 5-tons. Couldn't be picky with a family to take care of.@_WV
Man this truck brings back such memories! I grew up on the farm and my Grandpa had an all red non dually 12 valve.... and had the same color interior...It was an automatic though... That truck took a beating! I mean it worked HARD its whole life.... Well the engine out ran the body... The body and frame were so rotted out from rust .. It was a Michigan truck.. But the day she left she RAN like a dream! Had them adjustable bands in the transmission .
I was working as a machinist thru highschool. We had some old gas burner trucks with 2 speed rears. At the time I knew where I could have gotten a couple Road Rangers. Everyone said they would suck up too much power from from our old trucks turning all that gear mass. I knew machining the adapters wouldn't be any trouble, but didn't wanna do the work , if it would use up too much of the power of our old 292 inline sixes , or the 350 small blocks. I know a stock 12 valve has enough zap for about any person for everyday abuse. Have y'all noticed any draw from the power it was putting through the slushamatic??? I'm retired now , and still have an old 65 C60 Chevrolet the little 292 has plenty of power , if you keep it in it's happy place or RPMs. A 10 - 13 - 18 speed would be so much easier and faster between shifts than the Old 2 speed rear end. I kept this truck , because it pulls as well as any of the small block V8s , plus it only sips gas compared to even the 283 , or 327 V8s. I wanna make this old girl into a camper puller. I just don't wanna do the work , and expenses if it'll kill the power. But this is a subject that I've pondered for well over 40 years
You will still feel the same way with the 10 speed RTO as it has almost the same OD ratio as your 6 speed. Hardly any change in that respect. The RTO will be a much better, dependable tranny, much more capable and that is the benefit of conversion. You will have to change rear diff ratio and/or tire size to get more top end regardless of any tranny. Except something that may have double OD like Allison or RTOO
@joeg7755 I am considering putting spacers in the front and running a 35 10.50 . I know on my 01 auto truck it made a big difference between the 265 and 35s
What's nice is gear vendors makes a kit for the manual transmissions in pickup trucks so you can split all non granny gears so you can do this with less work now
Yeah, but they'll put a 10 speed auto in an F-150 !!! Dodge should be putting 10 speed manuals behind the Cummins and guys would beat the doors down to get one
I at first wanted to do the same thing on my Super Duty a several years back, but figured due to the width of the transmission it seemed like it wasn't going to clear. Just seeing the title of this video show up in my feed has me wanting to watch this all the way through, take some notes, and have a second look at it.
Same, I'm still wondering how the front driveshaft fits and exhaust routing. I have a 4" exhaust so that's going to take up a ton of space by itself... Fender exit it is haha
We I was a lot younger,in the area of Ashland Va. There was an old diesel mechanic that ran ,a old 1 ton IH 4X4 , not sure what diesel was used,but I counted 13 gear changes watching him pull out,very heavy and smoke rolling.
Great review! Medium duty transmissions, Fuller FSO, RTO and Allisons are mentioned here. FSO-6406 have input torque rating 660 FtIbs and FSO-6806 rated input 860 FtIbs, Both FSO weight 359 pounds, OD 0.78, and both are 6 speed and good for max GVCW of 33 tons (approx 70,000 pounds).......... I am pretty sure the smaller light weight 2 counter shaft 10 speeds (RTO610 and 6610) are both medium duty rated transmission and not heavy duty rated, most likely same GVCW as FSO's........The RTO-610 (is the older one) great 10 speed, input torque is 600 FtIbs, OD is 0.8, weighs 425 pounds, good for max GVCW???? (I could not find it) Replacement newer RTO-6610 input torque 660 FtIbs, rest should be the same as RTO-610, again I could not find GVCW but both are light weight 10 speed so should be close to FSO ratings........ As for automatics, the Allison 3000 series is excellent, much better rating than the Allison 1000/2000's, it also has double OD (0.75 and 0.65) and good for approx 40 tons (80,000 pounds) GVCW. It will take approx 425HP, and input torque approx 1200 FtIbs..........In reality does not matter which transmission you use, the weakest link will always be the chassis and drive line (drive shaft, u joints), and rear axle in our pickups. I have 2 older pickups, both Cummin's, one is 91 Dodge D350 with FSO-6406 and another 95 3500HD GMC with Allison 3000. Love them both and will never sell either one........ BTW Allison 1000/2000 are great too, nice and small but a much lighter duty trans than any of the above. Depending on the model, max GVCW is 25,000 to 32,000, and input torque and HP is much lower of course (max approx 300-325HP, 600-660 FtIb). All of these transmissions will make any pickup truck that much more reliable for work!
Used modify and rebuild mine and mill speed reducers,shearers,choppers and breaks.love doing mods.most of the machinery was blue printed back in the 40s and you could basically do any mods you wanted.the good old days.
@@robertdivany1627 I bought the gear venders used on Facebook marketplace and the adapter. I had a local drive line shop build me a shooter drive shaft.
I drove a C70 GMC log truck with a 427 gas and a 613 13 speed. The truck had an air button just like this truck for the clutch brake. It shifted like a 15 speed but with only 3 speeds in low and then repeat like a 15 or 10 speed, you didn't split the top 4 like a traditional 13 speed Road Ranger. I don't think it was an overdrive though.
Cool....have you thought about putting your clutchbrake actuator switch down at floorlevel on the clutch peddal??? Have an 03 dodge 3500 that i changed out to a 12 valve juced a bit.Pull stop cable so can be bumpstarted with no batteries.luv it.
Yes. Unfortunately the frame rail would be in the way too put it through the floor and didn't want to get more creative and make a work around for that too.
Just out of curiosity on the shaft that was silver brazed together… why not make a dozen cuts around the inner diameter then cut two rings around the interior with some centered spacing so that you would actually have had that nice little network of additional space for the material to be able to flow across the interior walls and get them filled with your braze material so that it’s really a nice interlocking shape to make your network get a little better filling up with your brazing rods and with that irregular surface shape wouldn’t you have have to crush your material to get a slip failure? Like in welding you create the v trench to then fill with your material???
I’ve been walking around like I’m a big bad stud of a guy with my 04 6 speed manual 250 with the 6.0 diesel 4x club cab work pickup truck and here’s the Big Mac Daddy!!! Dang it man that’s a lot of gears!!! Ten speed??? I’d love to hear what your shift points are in mph??? ❤. I just flip up through my gears in the ford right now too… seems much slower with the clutch???
It is a factory 3.55 gearset and with the 0.8:1 overdrive in the transmission it will easily do 75. It will go faster but I am out of horsepower at that point. It runs around 1950 rpm at 65.
Thanks for the video, a great upload. So many thoughts... I own a '90s F800 factory equipped with 6B engine. Seems like flywheel area components from a similar truck would be a good donor for the next swap. That's just a random thought, I don't know it inside out, it's just a workaday truck. My main point is that the Ford has air brakes. The compressor is gear-driven off the front cover, located LH, just below the injection pump. The PS pump is driven via "piggy back" at the rear of the compressor's crankshaft. Not sure if the arrangement's bulk would clear in a light truck chassis, just thought I'd mention it as a possible option to the re-worked AC pump being considered.
You are right about the accessory drive off the timing gears but Dodge used it for a vacuum pump for the brake assist and heater doors and stacked the power steering pump on the back of that. I could rework that setup but adding another pulley and repurposed a/c pump is easier.
Thought of that. Honestly I could do a lot of things but I don't need to make it more complicated. Adding a compressor is relatively easy and won't take the truck down for any length of time. I can still drive it even if in the middle of the compressor install. Parts for the compressor retrofit are easier to make than shifting components for the auxiliary box
I'm getting ready to put a 3-speed aux box in my 4 speed pickup, after that's going to be a transfer case to make it 4wd (it'll be a "factory" 4x4 conversion- it won't be lifted sky high with stupid rims and tires). I've debated making my 3 speed aux an air shift unit but I don't know if the aux would like air shift
I just seen you reply on this. What kinda 3 speed are you gonna use. Like is it 3 under , or under - direct - over. I have an old M Farmall id love to put a direct Over Under in front of the main trans. I can take to hydrolic pump out of the torque tube to get plenty of room. Also a couple of bigger farm trucks to do the same with.
@@coburnlowman I'm using a Watson 3 speed under/over/direct. I can get you a model number and dimensions too if you'd like, I have no idea how rare they are though
That’s a really fantastic work truck right there! 16o horsepower and a 10 speed is absolutely sweet? Love that you cobbled together with what you could find to work together and made everything fit up!!! Killing rig!!! I’m loving my 6 speed trans and the 6.0… I definitely need a ton more 6.0 Diesel engine schooling but it’s been around 4 years and I’ve got a lot more knowledge about the Diesel engine then I did before I found her!!! I’m looking at replacing my injectors and the glow plugs so it’s another 250k miles again??? I’m just about 190,000 on her… one guy said if I see 250k I’m doing great??? Don’t really understand that thinking myself??? But I’m not to knowledgeable on the 6.0???
If he converts to a 2nd hydroboost brake booster system he can remove the vacuum pump ans run the air compressor off that location I believe there is a air compressor that the steering pump will couple to...I'll have to go look at my buddies 12v 10 speed rv hauler ita a custom job. If not just run the power steering pump of an aux belt and pulley you also get a much better brake system. Just food for thought
Only of I wanted to remove my accelerator pedal. There is no room for the SAE setup. Cutting out the firewall would put the gas pedal either too close to me or behind the brake.
You could have done an easier swap... The flywheel housing, flywheel, clutch. starter and innards out of a Freightliner or Sterling medium duty truck that had a 6bt with a 10 or 13 spd then the only thing to figure out is the clutch linkage. I have a 1979 F350 4x4 with a 453T Detroit Diesel with a RTO6610.
Ford used a zf6 behind the 6bt in the f650 and f750 with a bolted-on bell housing. Makes a 6 speed swap simpler. GM used a version of the Allison with an input speed sensor in the medium duty trucks, which simplifies an allison swap.
I have an obs f350 dually with a cummins swap. Career truck driver here. I would love to have a 10 speed or 13 behind my 12v. Floating is the way. Having all those gears to float through while starting off heavy would be great.
Drive one it will Change your mind. Biggest advantage is the 400 rpm drop between gears. That keeps a diesel in its power band. Not to mention the fun factor is off the chart.
@@user-ii2mv6tj1zYa in the big trucks 10spd's are god awful 13 and 18spd's are the only way to go... He's got guts to put 16 000lbs behind a truck only rated to tow 8000k I worked for a tow truck company that impounded a 05 ish dodge dually cause the guy was hauling a W900 on a big gooseneck he was like 20 000lbs overweight was a hot shot truck guy got slammed with fines... All these guys tow these massive loads with these little old 1tons but if they ever get stopped they will be sorry!
@@scotcoon1186 He was way over the factory trailer towing weight and way over the gvw of the truck... You can just registered a 1 ton sy ya 100 000lbs and think your going to be legal they have gvw ratings for a reason
I would not feel safe towing more than than the recommended weight in a first gen Ram. I have one. They are not confidence inspiring vehicles lol. Plus, if you get into an accident towing more than the OEM specs, you are going to prison.
That's what I was thinking, the proper flywheel housing would allow using a standard bellhousing, and greatly simplify things. Ford and freightliner built enough medium duty trucks with a B or C series that Vanderhag's should have the flywheel housing.
I just want to know were i can get the cool safety glasses from? I also like that style of glasses. But i have never seen them for sale. Are they vintage?
They are prescription safety glasses. I'm sure you cold get them without any prescription in the lenses. Just go see your local optometrist and ask to see there safety glasses or the catalog they have for safety glasses
They are prescrption safety glasses in a UVEX brand frame. They are tinted due to Transitions Extra Active option and most importantly they are glass lenses. Plastic scratches too easily in shop environments. Very heavy but you get used to it. Plastic lenses last me 3-4 months and they are so scratched they are junk. The ones I am wearing in the video are three and a half almost four years old.
Thanks i have the same ones i found them at a mine i was working for I have never seen them for sale. great vid I just wish i could hang with you bro's all day making sparks and chips and talking sh!t:0 I guess real Alaskans like real Alaskans>>Hi from Palmer P.S i've had more chips go in my i from the fancy new stylish eye pro not working>>> old school with side blinders is the only way to go. Ho and nice truck I see you solved the crappy dodge tranny problem great trucks bad trannys lol@@bigjimf23
Finally a Dodge with a proper transmission
Besides the Diesel engine of course the road ranger transmission is the single greatest invention to come to the trucking industry in my opinion. Easy to service very strong many different options to suit whatever the need may be. Engineering at its finest
They were a game changer without a doubt. The first successful twin-countershaft HD truck transmission and the first “range change” type “married” multi-speed transmission. They changed the truck manufacturing industry to a point where they had a near-monopoly for decades because their design was so good. When the original Road Ranger (a 10 speed design with a cable or linkage range selector) came out Spicer was the leader in HD truck transmissions by a good margin with Fuller, Clark, Rockwell, and a few others also in the game. Mack was building their own “married” transmissions but these were essentially just a main / auxiliary twin transmission setup bolted together instead of using an intermediary driveline. They were non synchronized “split shift” type single countershaft designs much like the “married” 4x4 spicer boxes. The strength and ease of operation of the RR boxes basically directly caused Mack’s development of the 5 speed triple countershaft “Maxi-torque” transmission and its future derivatives as well as the “Maxidyne” high torque diesels that worked with them in order to replace their weak and comparatively complex single countershaft “X-plex” transmissions. Spicer came up with a stop-gap measure by introducing twin countershaft main and auxiliary transmissions to deal with the higher power and torque diesels were starting to make as well as offering air-shifted auxiliary transmissions that used their existing designs and simply replaced the lever and linkage shifter setup with two air cylinders to actuate their shift rails, but these were still fully non-synchronized and far more complex to operate than the RR’s simple single lever, synchronized range shift “repeat pattern” setup. In spite of this Spicer was able to hang on to a greatly decreased but still respectable part of the market because their models still offered several more sequential forward (and twice as many reverse) useable gear ratios than the RR 10 and “15” speed units did, with up to 16 unique forward gears available depending on the combination specified…..but they wouldn’t have that advantage for long. Building on their success with the launch of the 13 speed Fuller did a lot to close that gap and take even more of the market from their competition, even offering “double overdrive” models that had a top gear ratio of 0.63:1, taking away yet another advantage from Spicer who offered combinations with overdrive top gears in both the main and auxiliary transmissions that allowed for higher road speeds in trucks with more “hill-friendly” drive axle ratios. To compete with the 15 speed and 8LL Mack also developed the “6 speed” and 10 & 12 speed maxi torque boxes, the latter using a synchronized, air shifted, close ratio “splitter” type married auxiliary section to give 12 forward speeds with only 5 or 6 shifter movements. In the late 70’s even Mack saw the value in the fuller design and began developing the “2100 series”, a triple countershaft “range change” type transmission that operated on the exact same principle as the RR. By this time Spicer had lost all but a niche’ share of the market, selling mostly to older owner operator and heavy haulers who were already proficient in operating their more complex 2-shifter setups and didn’t want to change to something when what they had worked well for them. They also began more heavily marketing a simpler 7 speed HD twin countershaft transmission for vocational trucks which didn’t use a “range Change” pattern and used simple shifter with 7 forward positions in a single transmission to compete with the 8LL and Mack 5/6 speeds. By the late 80’s the 18 speed RR had come out and it was a game-changer again, offering as many or more forward gears as a two stick setup would in a robust, reliable, familiar and easy to use package, and all it took was adding an extra bearing and retainer to the already existing 13 speed design. By this point the dual transmission Spicer setups were only sold to die-hard fans and even Dana/ Spicer and Rockwell were building “range change” 9,10,13 and 18 speeds that were essentially knockoffs of the Roadranger design. By the 90’s After Mack killed off the 5/6/12 speed family literally every manual or AMT truck transmission was a knockoff of the Roadranger and it’s been that way ever since all the way up to today.
It’s a shame they married 4, 5 and 6 speed automatics to all these production 3/4-2-1/2 ton trucks. The Cummins has many different flywheel and clutch sizes to work with many different transmissions so the Cummins mated to this RTO 610 is without a doubt the best transmission for an application like this.
Second thing. I love that it’s not just about one person. We get a feel for the amazing amount of talent that’s out there.
To anyone wondering about the history behind these “baby Road-Ranger” transmissions with the shifter mounted air button operated cointershaft brake, I’ll share what I know about these interesting units. These were the “baby 10/13 speeds”, models RT(O) 610, 613, 6610 and 6613. They all use the same housing and the same parts in the 5 speed “front section”. The difference in the “66” series and the regular “6” is the 66’s use bevel cut gears in the timed, air shifted “back / range box” for quieter, smoother operation over the straight cut gears in the 610 and 613. The “13” speed models in this series were extremely unique as they were actually a 15 speed in design because they used the 610/6610 10 speed box with a deep reduction auxiliary section on the back…..but unlike all the other “15 speeds” these were actually named accurately. All 15 speeds are built on the same formula (10 speed main box with deep reduction added) but they don’t actually offer 15 non-repeating forward gears. Shifting sequentially a 15 speed only has 13 unique forward ratios you can use, the last 2 deep reduction gears are actually slower than the lowest two “regular” gears. The shift pattern for the 613/6613 is actually the pattern you use in all the 15 speeds to get from the lowest gear to high without shifting down again. Of course all the other “13 speeds”also offer 13 unique forward gears as well but they do it a different way, giving 5 gears in low range and 8 in high by using a a “splitter” type auxiliary section in the high range gears…..All the other 13’s (along with and 8LL and 18 speed) are built on the 9 speed main box, but they didn’t make a 9 speed as small as the 6/66 series making the baby 10 and 13 “one-off” models with no replacement after they stopped production. They are (conservatively) rated for 600 ft-lbs of input torque and were actually pretty common in medium duty trucks with air brakes from the late 60’s up to the 80’s…..they basically replaced the “twin stick” 4/5 x 3/4 transmissions common in the higher GVW “medium duty” model trucks at the time and were a common retrofit to these trucks as well. The most common application I’ve seen them in is Ford L700(0)/800(0)’s with the 534 Gas, 3208 or 8.2 Detroit but they were popular in similarly sized and powered IH and GM trucks as well.
The rt6610 has straight cut gears it just has more teeth so it runs a little quieter. The rt 610 is not that noisy..
I had a 75 ford f250 with a Perkins 6 cyc and a RT610. I loved that truck, nice thing about the road ranger trans is it only has 400 rpm drop between gears. Mine had a 16 in clutch, and a flywheel from a c60 truck.
That’s awesome, I would love to have taken her for a spin
This is the most bad ass set up in a pick up I have ever seen.
Hats off to you! You can pull as much as you are comfortable with, without killing the engine. I have wanted to do this to my 2009 Chevy dually with a tired 6.0 gas and a 6l80e auto… Cummins and a 10 speed swap
"some games we just don't play" gotta love it
I use Solidedge, it is very similar to Solidworks so easy to learn and no subscriptions. You buy a version and keep it for life.
I wish everyone was this way with subscriptions.
A
I am no mechanic at all but I am in awe at how you guys do this stuff . I am a carpenter / builder by trade but am always blown away at builds like this as engineering / mechanical is all witchcraft to me but I appreciate the skill and knowlege that goes into this kind of bespoke work !! 👏👏👏
Used to herd tandems with 3208's and 466's and all had 13-unders with the countershaft brake. Used just for getting it in gear or either scrubbing for a week while waiting or just shut the diesel off and yank it. A 13-under has it all. Moved a 20 ton track loader on a 20 ton rated tilt top trailer and never missed a lick here in the hills. Always wanted a G.I. 5-ton with a 10-speed. Herded a Pete tri-axle with a 3406 and empty went from lo-3rd, lo-5th, hi-3rd, hi-5th. Never did know what a load was. Blessings!
What many call a “13 under” AKA RT(O) 613 6613, is one of the most misunderstood RR transmissions because they advertised it so strangely. They are actually a “15 speed” in every single way except name. They are a 610/6610 front box with a deep reduction auxiliary section….the exact same formula that makes a “15 speed”. The truth is the 15 speed only has 13 sequential forward gears and the pattern to get through them is the same as the 6/6613. The last two “deep reduction” gears on a 15 are faster than the lowest two “regular” gears. Every other model 13 speed are all either a 9 speed front box with either a direct / overdrive splitter (913-14613) or a direct / under drive splitter (models built after the early 90’s when they standardized the shift patterns). It’s funny because the true “13 underdrive” transmissions are actually the “13 direct” / 9 speed derived RT and FR models. This makes the “baby 13 / 13 under” a one of a kind model, it’s the only 13 speed to use a 10 speed main box instead of a 9.
All I know is that a 13-under had 13 equal ratio shifts (3lolo, 5lo, 5direct) as does a 15 or a 4x4 or a Mack quad box. Quads were a double o.d. with the main direct in 4th and one more split left in the aux- Lo split, direct, hi split. Never drove a o.d. box here in the hills but one in a mixer with a 9-speed o.d. and a 6-71 but plenty of all the rest as far as 9's and 8LL's and sich but liked the 5x4's and 13-unders and 4x4's the best. A 10 was hard to beat too as well as a 12. The 1st was a 6-speed overgear according to the diagram, a 2-stick job with a 237 and a quad with a Thermodyne after the 5-tons. Couldn't be picky with a family to take care of.@_WV
Man this truck brings back such memories! I grew up on the farm and my Grandpa had an all red non dually 12 valve.... and had the same color interior...It was an automatic though... That truck took a beating! I mean it worked HARD its whole life.... Well the engine out ran the body... The body and frame were so rotted out from rust .. It was a Michigan truck.. But the day she left she RAN like a dream! Had them adjustable bands in the transmission .
Well done interview! Appreciate you sharing the info on what was involved in the upgrade!! SWEET RIDE !!
What? No 18 speed transmission, a real man's transmission. Seriously, a 10 speed beats anything the small truck manufacturers offer.
I was working as a machinist thru highschool. We had some old gas burner trucks with 2 speed rears. At the time I knew where I could have gotten a couple Road Rangers. Everyone said they would suck up too much power from from our old trucks turning all that gear mass. I knew machining the adapters wouldn't be any trouble, but didn't wanna do the work , if it would use up too much of the power of our old 292 inline sixes , or the 350 small blocks. I know a stock 12 valve has enough zap for about any person for everyday abuse. Have y'all noticed any draw from the power it was putting through the slushamatic??? I'm retired now , and still have an old 65 C60 Chevrolet the little 292 has plenty of power , if you keep it in it's happy place or RPMs. A 10 - 13 - 18 speed would be so much easier and faster between shifts than the Old 2 speed rear end. I kept this truck , because it pulls as well as any of the small block V8s , plus it only sips gas compared to even the 283 , or 327 V8s. I wanna make this old girl into a camper puller. I just don't wanna do the work , and expenses if it'll kill the power. But this is a subject that I've pondered for well over 40 years
Same with my 300🙂 I think the eaton fuller 6 speed would be plenty
Hi James good to see this video on your truck thanks Zig
Now that’s a real transmission, all ya need now is a Thunderbrake jake.
I love it. I would be stoked to have a 10spd in my 06 every time i get into 6th i want to shift a mim of 2 moregears
Same here dude. I am currently collecting parts for this swap to put into my 06 dually. And the 6 spd in there will go into my mega cab auto 😁
You will still feel the same way with the 10 speed RTO as it has almost the same OD ratio as your 6 speed. Hardly any change in that respect. The RTO will be a much better, dependable tranny, much more capable and that is the benefit of conversion. You will have to change rear diff ratio and/or tire size to get more top end regardless of any tranny. Except something that may have double OD like Allison or RTOO
I've seen a second gen that had a gear vendor od on it but have also been told they are not rated for the gvw of a 3500
@joeg7755 I am considering putting spacers in the front and running a 35 10.50 . I know on my 01 auto truck it made a big difference between the 265 and 35s
York 210 is a great air compressor also.
I have a old 10 gallon air tank strapped where the spare tire was. 😊
What's nice is gear vendors makes a kit for the manual transmissions in pickup trucks so you can split all non granny gears so you can do this with less work now
That's one sweet 93! Makes me miss mine.
If they made trucks like this I’d buy it no matter what the cost. Modern diesels are stupid
Yeah, but they'll put a 10 speed auto in an F-150 !!! Dodge should be putting 10 speed manuals behind the Cummins and guys would beat the doors down to get one
I at first wanted to do the same thing on my Super Duty a several years back, but figured due to the width of the transmission it seemed like it wasn't going to clear. Just seeing the title of this video show up in my feed has me wanting to watch this all the way through, take some notes, and have a second look at it.
The hard part now is finding the transmission, they are getting scarce
Same, I'm still wondering how the front driveshaft fits and exhaust routing. I have a 4" exhaust so that's going to take up a ton of space by itself... Fender exit it is haha
Road Rangers are amazing.
wow thats a lot of work! my 12 valves got a fso5306. luckily ford did all the math for me and everything bolted up
30:32
my face when i have a 2002 VW Jetta that needs a timing tensioner😅
Awesome nice video just perfect for real men to think of challenges overcame perfection
We I was a lot younger,in the area of Ashland Va. There was an old diesel mechanic that ran ,a old 1 ton IH 4X4 , not sure what diesel was used,but I counted 13 gear changes watching him pull out,very heavy and smoke rolling.
Wow Road Rangers are awesome 😊🎉🎉🎉
Super cool stuff James and John. Hopefully AWE’s treating ya well now there James….
Great review! Medium duty transmissions, Fuller FSO, RTO and Allisons are mentioned here. FSO-6406 have input torque rating 660 FtIbs and FSO-6806 rated input 860 FtIbs, Both FSO weight 359 pounds, OD 0.78, and both are 6 speed and good for max GVCW of 33 tons (approx 70,000 pounds).......... I am pretty sure the smaller light weight 2 counter shaft 10 speeds (RTO610 and 6610) are both medium duty rated transmission and not heavy duty rated, most likely same GVCW as FSO's........The RTO-610 (is the older one) great 10 speed, input torque is 600 FtIbs, OD is 0.8, weighs 425 pounds, good for max GVCW???? (I could not find it) Replacement newer RTO-6610 input torque 660 FtIbs, rest should be the same as RTO-610, again I could not find GVCW but both are light weight 10 speed so should be close to FSO ratings........ As for automatics, the Allison 3000 series is excellent, much better rating than the Allison 1000/2000's, it also has double OD (0.75 and 0.65) and good for approx 40 tons (80,000 pounds) GVCW. It will take approx 425HP, and input torque approx 1200 FtIbs..........In reality does not matter which transmission you use, the weakest link will always be the chassis and drive line (drive shaft, u joints), and rear axle in our pickups. I have 2 older pickups, both Cummin's, one is 91 Dodge D350 with FSO-6406 and another 95 3500HD GMC with Allison 3000. Love them both and will never sell either one........ BTW Allison 1000/2000 are great too, nice and small but a much lighter duty trans than any of the above. Depending on the model, max GVCW is 25,000 to 32,000, and input torque and HP is much lower of course (max approx 300-325HP, 600-660 FtIb). All of these transmissions will make any pickup truck that much more reliable for work!
The engine. Transmission and rear end should out last the rest of the truck. 🤩
Used modify and rebuild mine and mill speed reducers,shearers,choppers and breaks.love doing mods.most of the machinery was blue printed back in the 40s and you could basically do any mods you wanted.the good old days.
Around the block in Alaska. 20 miles. lol. Awesome truck.
Good video on your truck
Thank you
Too bad you didn’t have more pictures of the install.
Fuggin' nice.
Wow thats a lot of work nice job.
I went the easy way and put a gear vendors behind my 5600
Where dis you get your kit from ?
@@robertdivany1627 I bought the gear venders used on Facebook marketplace and the adapter. I had a local drive line shop build me a shooter drive shaft.
I started to do this conversion with my 89, I still have the flywheel, but ended up selling the #2 flywheel housing and transmission
Sweet Billy goat
Nothing is working to hard with that setup considering it’s meant to haul a minimum of 30klbs
I drove a C70 GMC log truck with a 427 gas and a 613 13 speed. The truck had an air button just like this truck for the clutch brake. It shifted like a 15 speed but with only 3 speeds in low and then repeat like a 15 or 10 speed, you didn't split the top 4 like a traditional 13 speed Road Ranger. I don't think it was an overdrive though.
Cool....have you thought about putting your clutchbrake actuator switch down at floorlevel on the clutch peddal???
Have an 03 dodge 3500 that i changed out to a 12 valve juced a bit.Pull stop cable so can be bumpstarted with no batteries.luv it.
Yes. Unfortunately the frame rail would be in the way too put it through the floor and didn't want to get more creative and make a work around for that too.
Just out of curiosity on the shaft that was silver brazed together… why not make a dozen cuts around the inner diameter then cut two rings around the interior with some centered spacing so that you would actually have had that nice little network of additional space for the material to be able to flow across the interior walls and get them filled with your braze material so that it’s really a nice interlocking shape to make your network get a little better filling up with your brazing rods and with that irregular surface shape wouldn’t you have have to crush your material to get a slip failure? Like in welding you create the v trench to then fill with your material???
You don’t have to take the keys out of it either, 1 out of 100 could even get it moving.
I’ve been walking around like I’m a big bad stud of a guy with my 04 6 speed manual 250 with the 6.0 diesel 4x club cab work pickup truck and here’s the Big Mac Daddy!!! Dang it man that’s a lot of gears!!! Ten speed??? I’d love to hear what your shift points are in mph??? ❤. I just flip up through my gears in the ford right now too… seems much slower with the clutch???
Countershaft brake!?!
Joe said that button was held down to activate turbo-boost for extra power when passing. 😅
What rearend gears does it have? And what will it do for highway speeds? Great idea. I want one.
It is a factory 3.55 gearset and with the 0.8:1 overdrive in the transmission it will easily do 75. It will go faster but I am out of horsepower at that point. It runs around 1950 rpm at 65.
I can't help but wonder the power loss, from spinning the mass of a twin counter shaft transmission. (?)
I rekon ol peg might even ALMOST approve of this ram! 😂
❤
💪💪💪💪💪
I have a question. What are the dimensions of the transmission? How much would one cost? Will it fit into an 89 dodge 150?
Luv ur channel >>>From Palmer
Thanks for the video, a great upload.
So many thoughts...
I own a '90s F800 factory equipped with 6B engine. Seems like flywheel area components from a similar truck would be a good donor for the next swap. That's just a random thought, I don't know it inside out, it's just a workaday truck.
My main point is that the Ford has air brakes. The compressor is gear-driven off the front cover, located LH, just below the injection pump. The PS pump is driven via "piggy back" at the rear of the compressor's crankshaft.
Not sure if the arrangement's bulk would clear in a light truck chassis, just thought I'd mention it as a possible option to the re-worked AC pump being considered.
You are right about the accessory drive off the timing gears but Dodge used it for a vacuum pump for the brake assist and heater doors and stacked the power steering pump on the back of that. I could rework that setup but adding another pulley and repurposed a/c pump is easier.
@@bigjimf23 I wonder if the range-shift actuator could be converted to solenoid, screw-actuator, something...?
Thought of that. Honestly I could do a lot of things but I don't need to make it more complicated. Adding a compressor is relatively easy and won't take the truck down for any length of time. I can still drive it even if in the middle of the compressor install. Parts for the compressor retrofit are easier to make than shifting components for the auxiliary box
I'm getting ready to put a 3-speed aux box in my 4 speed pickup, after that's going to be a transfer case to make it 4wd (it'll be a "factory" 4x4 conversion- it won't be lifted sky high with stupid rims and tires). I've debated making my 3 speed aux an air shift unit but I don't know if the aux would like air shift
I just seen you reply on this. What kinda 3 speed are you gonna use. Like is it 3 under , or under - direct - over. I have an old M Farmall id love to put a direct Over Under in front of the main trans. I can take to hydrolic pump out of the torque tube to get plenty of room. Also a couple of bigger farm trucks to do the same with.
@@coburnlowman I'm using a Watson 3 speed under/over/direct. I can get you a model number and dimensions too if you'd like, I have no idea how rare they are though
That’s a really fantastic work truck right there! 16o horsepower and a 10 speed is absolutely sweet? Love that you cobbled together with what you could find to work together and made everything fit up!!! Killing rig!!! I’m loving my 6 speed trans and the 6.0… I definitely need a ton more 6.0 Diesel engine schooling but it’s been around 4 years and I’ve got a lot more knowledge about the Diesel engine then I did before I found her!!! I’m looking at replacing my injectors and the glow plugs so it’s another 250k miles again??? I’m just about 190,000 on her… one guy said if I see 250k I’m doing great??? Don’t really understand that thinking myself??? But I’m not to knowledgeable on the 6.0???
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting on the highway?
What does he keep switching down on the left side??
Can you make a build list/modification list? And drop in the comments
where can I get that overdrive gear
kit?
This is eh glorious canadian interaction. Purty truck too, eh
I got almost enough to put a 7speed
How much affect does this have on towing and in the lowest gear with it in 4 lo how does it behave
It'll tow anything you want and in low range a dead person could walk faster
If he converts to a 2nd hydroboost brake booster system he can remove the vacuum pump ans run the air compressor off that location I believe there is a air compressor that the steering pump will couple to...I'll have to go look at my buddies 12v 10 speed rv hauler ita a custom job. If not just run the power steering pump of an aux belt and pulley you also get a much better brake system. Just food for thought
I would think that you could use an SAE bell housing and and other parts out of a medium duty truck to adapt this transmission to the engine.
Only of I wanted to remove my accelerator pedal. There is no room for the SAE setup. Cutting out the firewall would put the gas pedal either too close to me or behind the brake.
That's how others have done it, I was surprised to hear he used a dodge bellhousing.
You could have done an easier swap... The flywheel housing, flywheel, clutch. starter and innards out of a Freightliner or Sterling medium duty truck that had a 6bt with a 10 or 13 spd then the only thing to figure out is the clutch linkage. I have a 1979 F350 4x4 with a 453T Detroit Diesel with a RTO6610.
Again, I used what I had available here locally
Home grown!
Why not have just a regular 10-speed Road Ranger shifter and then have that switch for the brake
Funny how diesel trucks now come stock with 10 speed transmissions.
Ford used a zf6 behind the 6bt in the f650 and f750 with a bolted-on bell housing. Makes a 6 speed swap simpler.
GM used a version of the Allison with an input speed sensor in the medium duty trucks, which simplifies an allison swap.
Up in NY it would be rusted out
Alot of people don't know that there were a few more heavy duty transmissions mounted behind the 6bt in the Earley 90s, in U-Haul trucks, 5 tons etc
i see those gauges its totally stock guys
That's something that ol'peg would like to do to his ferd slongbox !!!! 😲😲😲😲😲😲
Very cool and absolutely unnecessary at the same time lol
On the contrary. VERY necessary. I couldn't be happier with it. The old setup was completely worthless.
Yeah if you're actually using it like that, then i guess it was a good upgrade. Good stuff @@bigjimf23
keep waiting for the guy in the vest to yell "shut the f up donny"
I have an obs f350 dually with a cummins swap. Career truck driver here. I would love to have a 10 speed or 13 behind my 12v. Floating is the way. Having all those gears to float through while starting off heavy would be great.
Thats a heavy gearbox for a pick up truck. A bit over kill for a 5.9l.
Drive one it will Change your mind. Biggest advantage is the 400 rpm drop between gears.
That keeps a diesel in its power band.
Not to mention the fun factor is off the chart.
@@bigbelconutLiving big pretending to be a truck driver. Just buy a real truck.
@@user-ii2mv6tj1zYa in the big trucks 10spd's are god awful 13 and 18spd's are the only way to go... He's got guts to put 16 000lbs behind a truck only rated to tow 8000k I worked for a tow truck company that impounded a 05 ish dodge dually cause the guy was hauling a W900 on a big gooseneck he was like 20 000lbs overweight was a hot shot truck guy got slammed with fines... All these guys tow these massive loads with these little old 1tons but if they ever get stopped they will be sorry!
@@taylorh3930 he was overweight because he didn't have the pickup registered heavy enough to cover the weight of the trailer and the load on it.
@@scotcoon1186 He was way over the factory trailer towing weight and way over the gvw of the truck... You can just registered a 1 ton sy ya 100 000lbs and think your going to be legal they have gvw ratings for a reason
Are you getting much business to modify others? I have a 99 3500 dodge very nice truck under 300 k.
Are you interested?
Hmmm.. another Mag-Line cart. Slightly used
Was he actually just jamming into his down shifts with no clutch kick??? Just a flick down shift?
Non-syncro transmission, you use the clutch to start and float from there
@@russellsmith3825 fantastic information! Neat truck!!!
Why???
I would not feel safe towing more than than the recommended weight in a first gen Ram. I have one. They are not confidence inspiring vehicles lol. Plus, if you get into an accident towing more than the OEM specs, you are going to prison.
You made that too hard i used a sae 2 bell housing and an fro ten speed roadranger
Kinda my thought. Got a 94 with a fs5205a an a 01 with a fs5406a. Sae2 for the win
That's what I was thinking, the proper flywheel housing would allow using a standard bellhousing, and greatly simplify things.
Ford and freightliner built enough medium duty trucks with a B or C series that Vanderhag's should have the flywheel housing.
@@scotcoon1186 all my stuff came from a 95 ford f700 all to simple
It's still don't increase towing capacity. Pointless mod.
God I hate 10spd's 13 or 18 I prefer 18spd out of all but 10spd's in big trucks suck shit
Geez- skip the first 26 minutes to get to the action
I just want to know were i can get the cool safety glasses from? I also like that style of glasses. But i have never seen them for sale. Are they vintage?
They are prescription safety glasses. I'm sure you cold get them without any prescription in the lenses. Just go see your local optometrist and ask to see there safety glasses or the catalog they have for safety glasses
They are prescrption safety glasses in a UVEX brand frame. They are tinted due to Transitions Extra Active option and most importantly they are glass lenses. Plastic scratches too easily in shop environments. Very heavy but you get used to it. Plastic lenses last me 3-4 months and they are so scratched they are junk. The ones I am wearing in the video are three and a half almost four years old.
Thanks i have the same ones i found them at a mine i was working for I have never seen them for sale. great vid I just wish i could hang with you bro's all day making sparks and chips and talking sh!t:0 I guess real Alaskans like real Alaskans>>Hi from Palmer P.S i've had more chips go in my i from the fancy new stylish eye pro not working>>> old school with side blinders is the only way to go. Ho and nice truck I see you solved the crappy dodge tranny problem great trucks bad trannys lol@@bigjimf23
Is that a fancy word for eye doctor? its been 30 years without doctors im good thanks@@coreylichty2455