HONDA K24A2, STOCK OIL PUMP GOES 8,700 RPM!!
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2020
- STOCK K24A2, STOCK OIL PUMP, S2 CAMS & SPRING SWAP=8,700 RPM!! CHECK OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR JDM K24A2 MOTOR WHEN WE ADDED A SET OF SKUNK 2 ULTRA STAGE 2 CAMS AND SPRINGS! RUN WITH LONG TUBES (WE TESTED SEVERAL VARIATIONS), A KINSLER STACK INJECTION AND SKUNK II CAMS AND SPRINGS, WE RAN THIS MOTOR OUT PAST 8,500 RPM TIME AND TIME AGAIN! WHAT IS THE MAX? WHAT WERE THE CAMS WORTH? WHAT ABOUT HEADERS? IT'S ALL HERE!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
I am impressed with the factory Honda camshafts & cylinder head. Heck, the whole engine. Amazing engineering.
I love these style videos. I know you have years and years and tons and tons of previous dyno run data, but seeing you run the motor on the dyno is always better
This is mega. What an engine. You'll be single handedly increasing the prices of K24A2/A3s with this, love it.
Defo keen to see the upgrade to the 50deg cam gear thing, and the ported head.
I'm a turbo guy, but what these made N/A are so incredible I feel I'd have to do these N/A mods before I added boost.
We got a K24A3 here we recently bought, so timing of these videos couldn't be better...!
126hp/liter wow! That K cylinder head is insane.
No 50 degree vtc?
And this isn’t even the “good” K series head lol.
Yeah look around na k24 with k20 heads regularly make these numbers with just a intake exhaust tune. And on boost well they rip. love the data rich is putting up but really wish he did a k20 head for the big bang.
@@oliverscorsim He May consider trying that at some point but his main goal is to determine what the bottom end can take.
I had no idea these little engines would go so high on a stock bottom end! Very cool stuff, as always, Richard!
keep the vids coming i love the amount of testing and detail you go into
Very very nice video guys!!!! Helps debunk a lot of peoples stories..
Definitely keen on the megaphone header that’s my next upgrade on my k20
Like your videos , always informative With comparison numbers. Always awesome to have real data.
Keep the k24 videos coming. I’m loving em.
I love the sleepy camera time. Lol glad you kept it in.
Honda is king of 4 bangers!
Imagine a set of those heads on a 4.8 LS? K engines have to be the best 4 banger ever made.
Look at his big bang video 4.8, with stock bottom end boosted.
czcams.com/video/iCPJxo5tNqM/video.html
Check out the Mercury Racing SB4, it's basically a 7 liter LS with twin cam heads.
www.mercuryracing.com/automotive/
The LS of the 4 cyl world.
That would be the C20xe but america did not get it.
And the k24 does 1000hp with only 4 cylinders.
@@matt-be8kt I never heard of it making 1000 hp but I’ve definitely seen it making 400-500 hp with a turbo, which is very impressive in its own right.
@@ardie4 there are a lot now making 1000+. What's his name from the boostedbois doesnt have a ton of ability but his white MR2 makes 1100 and runs 8s.
@@ardie4 K series have been clearing 1000 for years. They can easily hit 600 bone stock. 1000 hp k series isn't uncommon anymore
Lots of work for a 11 minute video. I love you guys!!
More to come!
@@richardholdener1727 Subbed,what else!
That was awesome Richard thanks for the header content
Richards camera needs to be left down 1% life so it learns its lesson on keeping this content from us! 📷
While you have this little ripper the dyno it would be cool to do a test running with vtec turned off for a full pull and then another with vtec engaged for the whole pull to show the difference between the different cam lobes
I would be interested in that too!
Running without VTEC above 7000 rpm will starve the cam of oil lubrication. Not that it would make much power up there anyway on the small lobes.
Vtec should engage when the torque on each cam lobe converges. So that small lobe isn't going to be making much more power after the big lobe kicks in. In my experience the hp already starts dipping about 500 rpm past the engage point.
@@snakeballs8965 yes I understand how it works, but a comparison would still be fun to see
He already did this with a B16.
Super happy about the race header as i was really thinking: Now with all the mods increasing airflow a bigger header is going to work once again.
I expected it to make a bit more of a difference :D
Can you show the oil pump's pressure data?
Then swap it for a RRC pump and compare.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting results.
Your commentary on this video had me laughing out loud 😆
300 HP from this little monster NA has me thinking about 700 + with some boost!
Cheers
You really want to smash some turbo cars just run nitromethane and get 600+ wheel horsepower. In a stock interior civic LX 4 door could run sub 10s high 9s. That would be the ultimate sleeper
@@spankthemonkey3437 traction is the issue with that power level. Thats why the na crowd can run a 10 with less than 400 wheel and many turbo cars spin half the track into a high 11, or sadly some 12s but will have the mph for a very low 10.
@@madmod not exactly the Na crowd runs stripped down skeleton cars because one if your na class racing you have a lighter weight restriction, if what you say is so then 400hp turbo cars could run 10s🤷🤣. They won't without stripping it down to nothing or maybe running huge slicks
@@spankthemonkey3437 Crx's are under 2000k lbs dead stock. 350whp is enough to dip in the 10s. This isnt a guess, just go to a track. As for dogging on slicks for drag racing, if you can't run a proper tire, dont go to the track. All you will do is piss off people who actually make use of the prep.
@@spankthemonkey3437 Consider that the torque a 400hp turbo car makes vs a 400 na. The turbo car comes into power much earlier and is harder to keep traction. Horsepower matters very little in terms of a good et. Its all about traction and specifically, traction on the leave.
Great content as always!
I would keep the stock camshafts. What about adding a plenum to those ITB's to see what difference it makes?
Always blows my mind just how much power K Series make.
Cant wait for the turbo content :D loving this channel!
That's more power than I thought they'd have.
When it comes to turbo manifolds, the thick cast stock manifolds work reliably, I've found. I got sick of getting all the loopy stuff welded every couple of months.
The sleepy cam mount was pretty funny.
Can you please do a test with k20a2 oil pump swap? Would love to see if deleting balance shafts has any effect on hp. Keep up the great work Richard!
All the mass in that K24 oil pump should result in 5-10 hp I would think. I was going to comment for this request also and the K20 50* variable cam gear swap too.
It does. Anything that is lighter, higher flow, more rigid, or a part that allows for more balance, will always add and free up horsepower
I had gained almost nothing switching to I k20 oil pump. Those are hyped up. You don't need one revving out a stock cammed k24
The hits keep on coming. Can't wait for some boost.
It would also be interesting to see the other typical upgrade of the 50° cam gear
Can the 50-degree cam gear even be used with available P-V
@@richardholdener1727 I would assume so as this is the most common upgrade for big "stock" power
@@richardholdener1727 do you have any plans on a budget turbo 351w using gt40 heads with a spring Upgrade.
I am running a 50° cam gear on my stock k24a2
It’s advisable to limit vtc to 45* on a stock tsx block. 40 with aftermarket cams
Test the tri-y header without the extensions to see how it effects the powerband
i actually think the stock manifold does fairly well for a factory manifold. A lot of the times they are just cast iron, don't flow well and are very heavy. This one at least is a header and not just a cast manifold.
Nice video thanks for sharing Any J35 videos
It would be VERY interesting to now run a stock K20 head. Do it, please!!!!
Thanks Richard! I’d love to see a run tuned for torque. M90 or m112 supercharger to boost low and mid torque? I’m starting to think about running one or two of these in a boat. Have a k24 in my Honda Element.
I don't understand how your friend stays so clean. I can barely open the hood on a car without getting dirty. Once I start working on one I've learned I either need to wear overalls or tie dye my white shirts in shades of gray because I'm covered in oil and dirt. Those guys who can work on a car and not get dirty are like wizards.
I was doing all the dirty work
Uncle rich hitting the 4 bangers!
K20 and K24 are awesome motors!
Yes they are!
I would love to se a test of how much the balance shafts rob by changing the oil pump :)
Thanks a ton for this vid.
Nice, just plain nice! Thx for doing the hard work to swop components and allow for some visuals....you just gotto deal with that lazy-neck-camera unit (lol)!
THAT CAMERA PHONE WORKS PRETTY HARD
I had a nos nsx Acura run with my 500hp 1988 supra and he was spraying dope the cheep way....but was impressed
the NSX V6 was stout
Looking forward to the boost!
Nice! Now if only we can test a front / middle trumpet injector for a much better air fuel mixture. Surely it will make power but is it comparable to a camshaft upgrades?
I’m loving this Honda stuff! Need to try the Aussie legends, the Holden 5l v8 and ford Barra 4l inline 6
ahhahah, the only place you'll find a holden 5L is off the coast of Whyalla attracting Snapper
How many banks would Richard have to rob, to be able to buy them?
manitoublack agree 100%
4200 atlas even
the issue is getting our aussie stuff over there. a (good) barra or GM holden v8 might only cost around $2000 AUD here but by the time you ship them to the states its up there with the cost of a expensive crate motor. As cool as it would be its not going to happen whilst the virus is about because it would be cheaper to fly over here buy all the engines and do the tests here then sell them off or fill an entire shipping crate with cars as well just to cover costs...... there is a million 3.8 buicks over there but that our holden v6 "performance" parts would fit. I would love to send Richard some parts like a 302 cleveland crank to play with but Im not sure Ms Holdener would be impressed
I like the Starsky & Hutch music lol!
Can you do a turbo test with the long tube header vs the stock manifold? That would be interesting to see.
Thanks for swapping the collectors round, not the result I was expecting!
I WAS CURIOUS TOO-EXHAUST SCAVENGING IS NOT WHAT PEOPLE THINK
Play with your cam angles and you can bring back that mid range, also adjust your V TEK.
I had the stock iron 4-2-1 ex manifold, primaries paired 1-4, 2-3 crack, so I replaced it with a fabbed 4-2-1 manifold paired 1-2,3-4.
Didnt work at all at PART THROTTLE WITH A TURBO behind it.
Replaced it with a fabbed 4-2-1, paired 1-4, 2-3, and all is well again.
Primaries a a little bit short, due to space though. Stock cams, with throttle valve for every intake runner, (stock) similar to the Kinsler.
Just saying....
That crossover sound on the skunk cams. Sheeesh!
Tough little engine 👍
Did you run the skunk2 timing chain tensioner? I put one on my K20z3 with everything else stock and it kept jumping time with stock internals.
Tri Y swap looked like pretty much a standard variation that you would get between pulls . I expected more from the shorty , but it looked like only 6 ish hp. But more is more I suppose.
it be intresting what octane would make and may be a injectoer upgrade as well
The camera bit was funny
thnx
You gotta be some kind of robot making all these videos. My question have you ever tested a crankcase vacuum pump and horsepower avantages if any
He is. He was sent from the future to rescue horsepower-kind 😎
yes-worth a little-more with the ring rings
The camera has its own mind 😁😁😁
126.5hp/l with long stroke engine and stock rotating assembly??? 28.7m/s mean piston speed??? WTF??? Honda parts become more and more attractive...
Getting up to F1 piston speeds. Love it!
My favorite part about watching people work on OHC engines? Pushrod guys act like it's a hand made Swiss watch of infinite complexity; everyone else acts like it's just another engine...
I work on turbo motorcycles all day where some spin 15,000 rpms so it's weird seeing 8500 being a lot when thats what mc engines spun 50 years ago.Being a fan of combustion I enjoy watching all the different combos he tries.
The oil pump won't break on the Dyno it's when it gets a clutch kick or the clutch side step dragracing that wen they break
Turbo !!! Let’s goooo
wonder if you make the same power with a ported RBC compared to the kinsler
Disconnect or take out the balance shafts. Those things run at 2x crank speed, and must be wasting a lot of power thrashing around in the oil at 17,000 rpm. That might be worth as much power as the cam swap.
I was thinking the same thing! I would think the balance shafts would add quite a bit of heat to the oil and could aerate it as well, but I haven't seen any proof of that on these engines.
@@averyalexander2303 GM sells plain shafts out of their Performance Parts catalog for the Ecotec 4-cylinder to replace the counterweighted shafts. There must be a reason for it.
@@andyharman3022 There is- performance and reliability. There is simply no need for balance shafts in a performance application since NVH isn't much of a concern to most performance enthusiasts. I'd happily give up a bit of smoothness for ~5 more HP and less risk of failure. My opinion is the less parts there are in the motor to break the better
You definitely need to turn vtec on sooner with the aftermarket cams you were using that dip in power you lost is because you didnt move vtec down on your Vtec RPM table plus you arent varying your cam angles the way you should your leaving alot on the table you should call Brent from PFI speed and he will walk you threw what to do to pick up alot more power
if only we tested different VTEC onset points and cam timing......oh, wait!
Not true , vtec engagement is tuned to where the power curve acts best vtec transition is supposed to be smooth and and linear in the power curve simply engaging it sooner is 100% wrong , setting vtec to early or to late creates a lul in the power band .
@@AnDrEw122100 Yes your are correct but look at the curve it was not smooth you should not see a crazy jump when it engages it should look smooth on the graph and should also sound smoother during engagement it has to do with the cam angles which you can set differently for different setups. Bottom ends do not like huge amounts of tq all the sudden you can limit low end tq with a cam angle\boost\timing strategy to save the bottom end and smooth the curve different K-series cam gears have different amounts of max phasing angles
Holdener has built some of the fastest Hondas on the planet, Brent... not so much. www.superstreetonline.com/features/0801-turp-worlds-fastest-civic-bonneville
Relevant video: czcams.com/video/sDOKY3JGt1E/video.html
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Also, you can't always get a smooth VTEC transition, it depends on the cam profiles, along with some other factors. If the secondary profile is significantly more aggressive than the primary profile(s), you'll always have a pretty noticeable transition.
Im curious what would be the max rpm for stock camshafts before losing power.
it depends on what honda cams you have, but for k24 cams, which are designed for torque it's around 7600 rpm,
America is so screwed if Honda starts building V8's. 😂
You can hate on the Honda K-Series all you like, but boy they're a great platform
01:40-01:57 richard dosent give all their secrets away :)
I've got a question about cams. If I want a cam that idles like stock, all I have to do is make sure there's virtually no overlap between intake and exhaust by increasing LSA - I can really make the lift and duration whatever I want and it will idle fine?
not whatever you want, but more lsa allows more duration
K20 s oil pump and remove the balancing shafts
Balancing shafts from the crank or oil pump
Have you had any experience with the Earth Dreams/DI K series stuff yet? I’ve only played with a few, but that DI K24W1 holds an amazing torque curve I’ll say that much!
DI is awesome! Do those heads flow near what a K24A2 head will flow though? Don't they have substantially smaller ports on them?
I laughed entirely way to hard over the camera narration 😂
what size are the ITB's? thanks
After looking at this looks like its not necessary to swap the oil pump to a k20..thanks great video.
I have lots of questions too. I just wanted to respond that it may be okay in short burst, but like sustained racing? Also, is it really safe to rev a K24 like that? Everything I've read says no, that'll it'll die prematurely. You need rods and pistons.
So I don't know. It would be awesome if the K24 was that versatile.
You need a oil filter with better flow, k&n or wix XP!
The red curve dropped off kind of sharply as if it was a valve float issue. Did you put stronger springs in before running the blue curve tests?
WE DID SPRINGS WITH THE CAM SWAP
I know its abstract but I was wondering if you might do a episode on a Ford Vulcan V6 3.0L. They were previlent in rangers for a while till the 4.0 came out. There's not much aftermarket expect for cams, lifters, springs and rockers from what I found. Thanks either way love your content.
I think the Ford Duratec 3.0 V6 24V DOHC is a better choice when it comes to Ford V6's. With primary design engineering from Porsche and cylinder head design from Cosworth they made 205hp in the 96-05 Taurus and Escape. In 06 they went to VVT and bumped up to 225hp. E85 versions were rated at 250hp. The Jaguar version made 232 hp @ 6750 and 220 ft-lbs @ 4500. The Noble M400 used a twin turbo Duratec V6 that made 425hp @ 6500 and 390 ft-lbs @ 5000. The Rossion Q1 bumped this up to 508 hp @ 4700 and 521 ft-lbs @ 4700. The Duratec architecture is also used in the 3.4 SHO V8 and the 5.9 Aston Martin V12 making 450hp and 420 ft-lbs NA.
Speaking of Ford V6s......... What about a 2.9L out of an 80s Ranger? The one with the mini tunnel ram? I had one of those in an 88 4x4 and that thing really came alive above 4000. Apparently they don't like being hydrolocked though. 🙄😪
@@jr78racer The Cologne or Taunus V6 has a long history, especially in Europe. In the 70's the US started seeing the 2.8 Cologne V6 in Mercury Capris (the European ones, not the 79-up Fox bodies) Mustang II's and Pintos. The 2.9 changed from cam gears to timing chains and made 140 hp in the Rangers and Bronco II. Cosworth took a 2.9 and added 24V DOHC heads to it and got 192 hp and a whopping 275 ft-lbs torque. Installed in the Ford Scorpio Cosworth 24V it was only offered with a A4LDE auto. The 2.9 evolved into the 4.0 OHV and SOHC versions common in Rangers and Explorers. I recall a lot of 2.9 Rangers with blown head gaskets.
@@chris49ford mine never blew a head gasket, but it never ran the same again after being filled with water........amazingly it did still run, though not nearly as well as before the drowning 😂
@@jr78racer it was probabably de-stroked .. those rods probabably had a little curve in them lol
If the cylinder pairing change on the exhaust didn't change the power curve, does this mean that it isn't doing any scavenging?
Honda Power🙌
Please retest with a ported head and intake
K24A2 block K20 head, skunk cams, 76mm precision on 25psi revving to 9500 all day in my long travel buggy. The K and the J are both amazing engine family's.
Stock rotating assembly?
@@ClassicVinylAlbums no I'm running weisco pistons and turbo rods, stock crank though.
That’s dope as f#*k !!!!!!!!
Would've liked to see the camshaft before/after with the PRO manifold.
Ya know....for us dudes that ain't about dropping $2500-$3000 on intake.
i TESTED THOSE
I have those cams and they perform best with higher compression than stock.
12.5 to 1
With that compression you should have went with ultra 3
Btw you should totally install in the nova
*pops the hood of the Nova*
"K24A2 NO SHIT!"
Or better yet install a Honda B-Series in the Nova .. with its CCW rotation 5 reverse gears and one forward!
Not massive differences in any of that really. The stock stuff must be pretty good.
Hello RH. What carburetor system are using to make the motor run? Can this be done without an ECU?
this was not a carb-this was efi and AEM ECU was used
Gravity affects all of us. Nova candidate perhaps? Thanx for showing us a 4 popper.
Does anyone have an opinion? After watching this video, I'm not sure building a KFrank engine is worth it. My current Frank engine hydrolocked last week. I have a new JDMK24A now, which I just bought. My questions is is it worth spending the extra money to have my Z1 head and RBC intakte manifold, with 50 degree cam gear switched over to my good k24 short block, or do I just run the whole new jdm k24 long block? What would you do?
This stock engine appears to breath very well. I've read that the Z1 head doesl outflow the jdm head in cfm. And the RBC is supposed to provide better air flow with it's larger plenum and fatter runners. I wish I could have them both dyno'd.
look at the runner length of the intakes-that determines where (effective rpm) they make power. you probably are not using all of the stock airflow from either head-just get it running
Before I swap my k24a2 into my integra dc5, I'd like to build the k20a2 so it's there for my kids car when he gets his. How much power do the parts make in the k20a2? Or do you already have videos on that motor?
I have not run the K20A2
@@richardholdener1727 well I watch eithetway, but if so I'd be thankful
I would like to see so vw bug engine turbo setup.
Was this still the stock 25 degree vtc or did yall upgrade to the 50 degree? The 50 degree makes huge gains (leave it at 45 degrees though)
we did most of the testing with 25 then went to 50
@@richardholdener1727 awesome info. I figured with those numbers and the cam change, but didn't want to assume.
Nitro nitro nitro!!
What were the cam specs? If they’re really big cams they could benefit from a compression bump.
Turbo will do the trick.
Wanna see what the stock k24 can hold on boost levels. My guess 25lbs
You should turbo this thing, then you can test it with different ic piping sizes.
He will. Going to do the big bang test for max power.
So is it actually safe to daily drive a stock jdmK24a with these cams? Everything I have ever read says you need the accommodating valve train, not to mention stronger rods and pistons and higher compression. I mean this is really impressive and gives me the itch to get some performance cams, I just don't want to break a rod and blow my engine while rippin 4th gear on some Nissan, ya know. I also don't want to spend the money on rods and pistons lol
just need springs
What degree vtc is this running please ?
Regards
Obviously, the camera cannot keep up with Richard's energy level