Delta Force STI 2011: Competition Meets Operations
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
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In the early 2000s (specifically 2006/2007, I believe) US Delta Force decided to replace its .45 ACP 1911 pistols with something having a larger magazine capacity. After testing a number of different platform initially, they settled on two to purchase and fully evaluate. These were the STI 2011 (a double-stack 1911 platform) and the Glock 22, both in .40 S&W caliber.
The unit ended up keeping the Glocks and returning the STI pistols to their manufacturer as unsatisfactory, largely because of magazine reliability issues. The STI 2011 of that period was designed around a .45ACP cartridge length, and the magazines were significantly longer front to back than needed for standard .40 S&W ammunition. This was not a problems for competition shooters, who could load their cartridges to a long OAL to properly fit the magazines, but Delta did not have this option, since they needed ammunition that would also fit the Glocks.
As you might expect, there is a lot less PR value in having your pistols rejected by Delta than in having them purchased by Delta. When the guns were returned to STI, they were subsequently sold off as simply used .40 caliber 2011s, without mention of their Delta provenance. Some people who knew what they were snapped them up, but some went to people who may still not recognize the provenance of what they have...
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I imagine anyone who bought a cheap .40 off the STI website is now frantically checking to see if they’ve got an ex-Delta force gun!
They will definitely frame that gun
Someone out there has really cool piece of history and has no idea
Word is what mean English speak me
@@BFSarthur finger fat mistyped now edit
@@rajbiswas9077 pretty cool to take to the range, too!
I just love the look of this firearm, always wanted one. I've always wanted an STI. That's a phrase not to say in public.
"I got an STI from a Delta Force Operator" similarly is a phrase you want to be selective with who you say it to
Subaru technica international
It seems to be polite to say they rebranded to Stacatto due to a philosophy change. No other reason.
Lol I got an STI by going to the strip club with a couple Delta guys
Secrets?
Not every competition is a gunfight , but every gunfight is a competition.
This competition was a gunfight though czcams.com/video/iik25wqIuFo/video.html
Crazy
@@mirrorthorns275 you SOB you caught me lacking
Except in a gunfight there's no second place.
@@dillensummerlin3225 unlucky lad😂
Thank you for this.
I built those Delta force pistol when I worked at STI. STI got them back and sold them to the public. Made mad cash.
That's cool. Anything that you would add or correct to the video?
@@GunFunZS yeah I wish I had bought one when I had the chance. Great guns if you know how to tune the magazines correctly. Sadly not all mags were and like he said was a big issue with STI guns. It was a great company till the ESOP sold and the new CEO wanted numbers to make the new owners at Westwind happy.
@@texasdirthawker Why didn't they get MecGar to make some mags? I can appreciate it would've been expensive, but even the *publicity value* of getting a Delta contact would've been worth it!
Do you know if they ever tried spacers in the mag? IIRC they don't work so well but I seem to remember Zimmerman (of Wilson and Guncrafter fame) using mags with a U-shape pressed into the front of the mag body to take up the extra space...it was either him or Nighthawk, I can't recall!
Because they wanted to build all double stack mags in house through the most archaic process imaginable.
Imagine buying a firearm that was returned from the special forces to only have it with a body count already with out the store and your knowledge hahah now that would be funny and a serious case hahah
Pat MacNamara: 'We trained so extensively with pistols because the skills for shooting handguns transfer over to rifles.'
"Doesn't work the other way around, though."
Even if you disregard its model name, and who used it; it's still a ridicilously sexy gun! STi really outdid themselves on this one.
100% And the new Staccato pistols are even better!
Yes, I completely agree, but I was wondering if the name came from who was using it?
@@bobhill3941 It's not called the "Delta Force STI 2011".
It's just a "STI 2011" that was trialled by Delta Force and was (briefly) a part of their armory stocks. "Delta Force STI 2011" is just a nickname reflecting it's provenance.
When OP mentioned "Even if you disregard its model name" I believe (I may be wrong), that he was referring to the manufacturer's name: "STI" (now called "Staccato") which many people pointed out is the same abbreviation as that of "Sexually Transmitted Infection". It was a running joke for gun owners for a long time:
Gun owner 1: "I just got a new STI"
Gun owner 2: "Penicillin should clear that right up!"
There have been guns named "Delta" as if to imply a connection to Delta Force (eg. Colt's "Delta Elite" series of 1911's) but STI never publicly made that connection. They MIGHT have done if Delta hadn't rejected their pistol, but to do so after Delta rejected it would be REALLY bad advertising.
Imagine the ad copy (if there was such a thing as "truth in advertising"):
"The STI Delta Force 2011: The gun that Delta Force Operators used... briefly... and quickly traded in for Glock 22's."
Seems like more of an ad for Glock than STI...
@@bobhill3941
"its model name" was both a nod towards Delta and STi. As GSBN explained so much better than I can 👍
Also one of the best shooting pistols I've tried (in 9mm). Kinda like the CZ Shadow2. The trigger feel on the CZ is better though IMO.
In his book "Delta Force", Col. Charles Beckwith cites the reason that they stayed with the 1911 and the .45 ACP cartridge in lieu of adopting a 9mm (as I recall he cites the HKP7 as an alternative) Is due to one of their main tasks at their inception was aircraft hostage rescue. They were worried that a 9mm would overpenetrate through the fuselage of an aircraft and potentially injure hostages. He also notes that the 1911 is a very accurate pistol, especially the marksmanship team guns they were running and modifying.
They were worried that 9mm would overpenetrate. Meanwhile the GIGN pick .357 magnum for the same job.
@@JohnHughesChampigny Yep just that Delta may not be as good as GIGN 😇😁
I met a chap years ago who'd served with the British S.A.S. during WW2, he was quite adamant that he favoured the .45 of the 1911 and Thompson over the 9 m.m. of the high power and Sten as he felt it simply had more stopping power. He'd had to put multiple 9 m.m. rounds into an enemy to drop them but he said the. 45 was "Like hitting them with a brick", one round usually did the job, and as he was still alive to express an opinion then I'm prepared to take his word for it.
Larry Vickers did a podcast on the Delta 2011s czcams.com/video/vcatBwnL7_E/video.html
@@jonprince3237 As much as that story might be true in the WW2 setting, this comparison between 9x19mm vs .45 ACP is real no more. There is tremendous difference between FMJ bullets and modern expanding ones and pressures involved in both calibers. WW2 Parabellum loadings are wimpy and much less effective than modern ones and often modern 9mm hollow points are much better and more effective than contemporary .45 due to HP nature, demanding higher velocities to properly expand. This fact is so often omitted in any discussion it's sad really. But yeah, when we talk about JHP and their effectivenes there is obvious superiority of .45 over 9mm. It's hard negotiating with hole and its volume difference on target...
Regarding the magazine issue:
I wonder why STI did not take a leaf out of Colt's book and spot-weld a "spacer plate" onto the inner rear wall of the magazine. Manufacturers have been turning .38 Super mags into 9mm Para mags that way for decades.
Designing and manufacturing reliable magazines is not a trivial thing. Based on what Ian said here, I'm guessing redesigning the mag was not a viable solution for STI given the order quantities.
The problem is that .45 ACP/.38 Super singlestack 1911 magazines converted to 9mm Para by adding a spacer to the rear of the tube are famously unreliable. Taking an approach that doesn't even work in singlestack magazines, and assuming it will work in doublestacks, is not an undertaking with a high likelihood of success. The solution is to do what Wilson Combat did with the EDC X9, and build the gun around a previously-existent, well-established, conventional-design 9mm doublestack magazine of proven reliability. A bit of an aside, but I am constantly amazed that no company has ever built a 1911 that takes Mec-Gar's 18-round Beretta 92 magazine. Because that magazine ROCKS.
@@kangjames6227. Yer welcome.
They did for the 9mm magazines. The newer gen STI and Staccato mags don’t have the spacer and will work in these older guns too.
You can load long and they run in SVI, STI, SPS and CZ TS or use S&B factory ammo as it runs in those guns designed for the longer ammunition, the drawback for competition is that it doesn't make the major power factor.
Owning one of these, must be kind of like owning a losing team Super Bowl ring... didn't win, but making it all the way to Delta Trials (with rack numbers), is still pretty remarkable.
One the biggest legacy weaknesses of 9mm 2011’s even today is the grip frame is still sized based off that double-columned, 45ACP footprint.
STI makes a double stack .45 w/ ,longer mags. Why not just use them in the first place?
@@monotech20.14 You have misunderstood. The double-stack / 2011 grip format was created when everything was 45acp or 38 Super all the time. That set the “2011” mag dimensions to this day.
And yet I can't find a .45ACP 2011 no matter how hard I look.....the irony gives me a headache.
@@alexwalker2582 I ended up just grabbing a Para Ordnance frame and just having a gunsmith build me a double stack 1911 in .45 because yeah, I couldn’t find any either. It’s annoying.
would abosolutely love to see someone try the staggered stacking mags like the newer micro 9mms have in a full sized 1911 frame. Still thin, but would have a competitive capacity
Would love to see you break a 2011 down and show the unique frame/grip structure that makes it special.
as far as i'm aware, the grip is made of polymer and can be removed from the frame entirely along with the trigger guard and system, unlike the old 1911 where you could only remove the plates on the side due to the grip being an integral part of the frame; in theory making the grip non-integral and polymer allows you to fit a double-stack mag inside without having to do some funky machining tricks to get an appropriate magwell built into the frame.
@@63.08 I have one so I know about it personally but I think the system is pretty slick and would be a good fit for one of Ian’s more in depth videos.
"Delta Force got STIs!"
Dang where were they deployed
Not deep enough to get an STD?
@@elestromusicgamesfun1101 The terminology has changed. All are now STI's.
ur mom's house
@@thetalesofdaneandco probably around the same time they changed their name to Staccato.
Fayetteville
According to Ken Hackathorn, Delta was well-aware, though previous experience, that the 1911 didn't work well in deserts. A huge issue, since Delta carried their 1911s in fast-access holsters, and they carried them cocked and locked, was that when they were being dropped off in the desert, prop wash from the helicopter rotors would coat everything with sand, and it would work itself inside the 1911 through the open area under the firing pin stop, and down into the gun's fire control system.
The idea, with the switch to .40, was they'd use Glock 22s for that sort of thing, but the STI .40s would be used for more urban operations. In reality, what happened was the STIs didn't work worth a damn, from a reliability standpoint, so they wound up using Glocks for everything. Delta returned most of their STI .40s back to STI, which then sold them on the commercial market. A few made it into private hands, like those of Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn.
So, yes, there are, I'm sure, some people out there who have ex-Delta guns and don't even know it.
@Paulo Ribeiro. Did he now. That doesn't match my memory. What happened was that, when Larry was in Delta, they did a test to see how various .45s, including the Glock 21, worked when extremely dirty. The G21 had issues, however even Larry has admitted that, had they installed a grip frame plug into the gun, as anyone serious about actually using that gun in a harsh environment would, which would have prevented crud from getting up through the hole behind the mag well and thence up into the gun's fire control system, at that point the Glock would have been a pretty well-sealed system, and it would no doubt have fared much better.
Before Chip McCormick's recent passing, I had some long phone conversations with him. Chip's company did a lot of work for Blackwater, and Chip had actually read the contract that a person had to sign to be a contractor for Blackwater. According to Chip, there is a portion in that contract that says, "No, as a matter of fact, you cannot take your favorite 1911 with you and carry that. We will issue you a handgun, it will be a Glock 17, and that is what you will carry." And in pretty much those words, too. The reason for that is, in 20 years of the War on Terror, Blackwater never had a Glock 17 fail to function at the moment of truth - and that includes guns that had just come through sandstorms.
"According to Ken Hackathorn, Delta was well-aware, though previous experience, that the 1911 didn't work well in deserts."
While he may be right about this, people need to keep in mind ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING. I think this probably applies to all pistols really, but regardless, I know it applies to the 1911s, and that is, there is a difference between a COMBAT M1911 and a COMPETITION M1911. The former has large clearances between parts and a decent rattle when you shake it. This makes it inherently less accurate, but much more reliable. This was how the old service M1911s were built. The latter however has very small clearances, tight-fitting parts, and an almost non-existent rattle. This is GREAT for accuracy and competition shooting, but SHIT for reliability. So it actually does make a lot of sense that they had reliability problems with these competition pistols in the desert.
@@arnox4554 The guns they had problems with in the desert were military, singlestack 1911 .45s, not the STI .40s. The STIs never made it past initial testing, and never saw field use.
Admittedly the 1911s Delta was using had been fitted-up to be more accurate than the typical rattletrap military 1911. Which had absolutely nothing to do with their lack of reliability in the desert. Things like the amount of clearance between the barrel, slide, frame, etc. would have nothing to do with whether or not desert sand - which is about the consistency of talcum powder - can get inside the gun through the vulnerable open area beneath the firing pin stop when it's carried cocked and locked.
For a time, Delta actually had Safariland build them a special holster that had a flap they could keep closed when in the artificial sandstorm generated by helicopter rotors, but then could be lifted up and snapped out of the way afterward. Even at that, there was no way around the fact the 1911 was simply not a good desert gun.
@@DuaneThomas1963 "Things like the amount of clearance between the barrel, slide, frame, etc. would have nothing to do with whether or not desert sand - which is about the consistency of talcum powder - can get inside the gun through the vulnerable open area beneath the firing pin stop when it's carried cocked and locked."
Higher clearances do not prevent stuff from getting into the firearm. They instead prevent reliability issues EVEN IF stuff gets into the firearm because there's less friction/drag since the parts aren't absolutely squeezing against each other.
There have been TONS of old service issue M1911s working for YEARS without fail in horrid conditions. That quality didn't just magically stop being a thing in modern times. But it does mean that if the gun isn't built correctly for combat/reliability, then the gun will be much more temperamental.
@@arnox4554. A lot of people have a somewhat misty-eyed view of military 1911s' reliability level. In any event, we're talking the fire control system here, which is going to be fairly finely-fitted in any 1911. And the truth is that, no matter how many times you say it, you are never going to make your opinion outweigh Delta's real-world experience. ;)
Been using an STI 1911 in 45acp for years and love it. Have shot a few 9mm 2011 right before the change of names and they shot flawless. I have always hated Glocks and forced to use a mod 22 and hated it for various reasons. Once I was able to choose what I carry, I went back to the 1911 for duty and loved it.
This looks incredibly similar to my Staccato R. In the R they just refined some edges, changed caliber and gave it a bushing.
As you probably know already, Staccato used to be STI.
@@sigspearthumb3249 I did know that indeed. I just did not expect such a resemblance between these two guns. Thought they'd be distant cousins instead of father and son :P
Don't tell General George Patton that competition doesn't play in military activities: Scored a Fifth Place in the Olympic Pentathlon; would have medalled if not for a scoring failure by the judges. The controversy centered on the Pistol competition.
He also forced veterans at bayonet point out of DC, sacrificed troops and resources in a failed attempt to set free his son in law, almost cost the allies Sicily and beat his own soldiers. So maybe his opinion isn't relevant?
@@williamED15 none of those (and other crimes) change the physical reality of the link between competition and military activities.
@@williamED15 On the other hand he looked fantastic in jodhpurs.
@@williamED15 His failures as a Commander have little to no correlation between the link between competition and practical shooting.
Another successful crossover from shooting competition to combat was Vice Admiral Willis A. ‘Ching’ Lee, USN. He won multiple gold medals in the Olympics then went on to heavily influence naval gunnery, culminating in the Battle of Savo Island, where USS Washington, his flagship, pounded the Japanese battleship Kirishima to scrap metal. Drachinifel has a good video about him.
shout out to anyone who refuses to beat Resident Evil 3 (1999) without acquiring the STI parts from Nemesis first. quick fire FTW.
Yup.
An additional issue with the pistols, STI didn't realize/forgot the pistols were supposed to ship with 10 magazines each. When they came up on the ship dats, they scrounged every 40 mag in the building to get enough mags for the order. Not all of the mags were in spec.
The .45 for special forces makes sense when you take into account the use of suppressors. You can use off the shelf ammo that's subsonic and will still reliably cycle the gun.
I never had problems with cycling 147gr 9 mm actually.
@@Neomalthusiano Well, he didn't quite get it right: it's not about reliability (a standard 9mm cartridge will cycle the gun normally when the silencer is installed). It's about the fact that ANY .45 ACP is a subsonic cartridge, and therefore will match perfectly with a silencer; the 9mm Para, on the other hand, needs a special subsonic cartridge.
@@user-ui4hs6xh1s special? I consider 158 gr an special load, yes. But 147gr you can get in most, if not all shops. And that's what about maybe 40% choose for a defensive round. It will go about 1000 fps, 305 m/s. Even in below freezing temperatures, it won't go supersonic. While I agree that .45 is better suited for this role, I also believe that people, in defense of the "all-american" 45 ACP, overweight a few points that while valid, aren't exclusivity of any given round.
Thanks Ian. I did enjoy the video!
Speaking about the 1903, a bunch of those USMC M1903 Springfield snipers were made off of National Match rifles.
Great video. Kinda the same idea/ thought process I went through to aquire my usp expert.
Wanted a full sized hammer fired .45, was limited to what I can get in CA. Most of the 1911's offered are crap. Thus left with the most obvious choice. Still don't regret
Great video, again👍🏽thanks Ian 🙏🏻
Great vid, Ian.
I was shooting STI 2011 in .40SW for several years. Stock STI magazines were nothing more than placeholder to immediately throw away. But good mag bodies with good follower and stron spring were feeding even stock ammo with no problem.
This really is the best channel on CZcams
Thanks
Thank you , Ian .
🐺
I love watching your vids! Your the best.
Iv always wanted one of those 2011s in 357 sig, just gets my heart pumping
Please do more videos on these STI pistols! :D
Just a small connection. Mike Allen from MHA customs was the 1911 armourer at Delta. He did a good bit of work with STI and did a 1911 based on what he was doing at the Delta. Thats likely where much of the STI guns got their upgrades.
Danish Jaegers also bought STI in ,40 with kit in 9mm also with them.
Can confirm - I've had STI mags that needed tuning.
A part of the 1911 heritage? People used to have to know how to tune magazines for their firearms. A couple of my .22's are picky and my 1911 is as well. The newer guns don't care as much.
I think that a simple shim in the back of the magazine would have fixed the problem.
@@pat8988 That's what STI did
Most people refuse to work on anything anymore. Guns, cars, whatever. They are all disposable now.
I love my STI 2011 .38 Super. So accurate and so easy to shoot well..
In the early 2000's I had a guy working for me who was a Seal Team 6 member (actually couple of them) who were real Glock 22 fans. They carried them as civilians. Thay actually ran a security firm which was one of my subsidiaries. These guys were active in the first Gulf War. And I mean active. I am a fan of the .40 S&W myself. My first semi-auto pistol was a .40. The standard load was a 180-grain projectile generating 400 ft-lbs. I like the 155-grain projectile generating 500 ft-lbs. The standard .45 and 9mm projectiles generate about 350 ft-lbs.
Well done!
It’s a very beautiful pistol. I hope the magazines get better I would love to see it more main stream
I just ordered a staccato a few weeks ago. I was really surprised to see this video
As an old Air-softer I was like; Oh, a Mauri Hi-capa 😅
Hopefully the front doesn't fall off like my old WE model!
@@ToastyMozart - Not the mauri, had mine for years. Awesome pistol
Very cool video.
I'd really love to see Ian cover the Lewis Assault Phase rifle, the one that uses his Shock Action system.
Do you hear that sound? It's the value of this pistol going up.
Interesting about the magazine. I have single stack STI Guardian chambered in 9mm Luger and the magazines are modified to compensate for the shorter cartridge. However, they still didn’t work great and replacements from Tripp Research are a vast improvement. (About 12 years old)
This show is literally how I start my day every morning, A cup of coffee(sometimes a monster, no judge), a cig and the latest episode of FW. Thank you Ian. Without you I'd be lost. On your days off I go with Hickok45.
That’s funny. More people would probably judge you on the smoking, than the Monster energy drink.
@@amendable5401 Just shows ya where my shame lies.
I'm sure I've seen other magazines that have a pressed rib in the front or back of the magazine to adjust them to smaller ammunition. Is this possible/was this done/was something else done for any of these magazines, or were the mags just left in the faulty state.
They were left.
The old STI / 2011 mags were a dumpster fire 20 years ago. They were notorious for being damaged if dropped on the ground during reloads.
It was very common to see mags “tuned” for individual guns back in the day. Read that as basically not 100% interchangeable from gun to gun.
Modern single stack 1911s still have to solve the 45ACP OAL issue. The best way is a combination of spacer in the rear of the mag body, and a follower / tube that work to keep the round from nose diving.
The BEST solution is to dump the 45 caliber sized mag all together and use a 9mm sized tube, with a 9mm
Sized grip.
Regards,
Marky
@@John1911 Good info, thanks. Seems like a big mistake to work so hard on manufacturing a reasonable quality gun and then making the magazine so poor.
@@EDSKaR Rumor was they old mags were almost being made by hand. I can’t verify that since I wasn’t in the building when this was going on.
But the 2011 magazine was always, ALWAYS been a big problem.
-Marky
Larry Vickers discusses this on his podcast czcams.com/video/vcatBwnL7_E/video.html
I shot an STI 2011 once that was one of a run made for some unit in the UAE. A former coworker behind the counter owned it, and said he was one of the go betweens between the UAE mil, and STI, and it was made for him. He never BS’ed me on anything. He Did a lot of free lance at the time, and was still connected in the mil community as he was a retired Army Ranger. I can’t remember if it was railed, but it was the smoothest double stack 1911 I ever handled.
I am surprised that STI didn't come out with a modified magazine to address the concerns of the military. Thanks for the video.
Lots of good guns missed out on being used for cool purposes because the cost of the modifications needed for the small size of the potential sale did not make economic sense. But in this case, being able to advertise that your pistols were used by Delta Force would seem to be worth the investment.
I've got one of these.
STI Eagle.
As long as the magazines work it's a cool pistol....but the magazines are the weak link in the chain.
Amazing!!!
As for the magazines. STI did produce 126mm magazines which were basically flush fit. I believe those were always available. They were required for IDPA competition which is why I think they made them. I have a number of them. I also think they made an even shorter one for the STI VIP which I do not believe they produced many of. The grip frame was just cut down to Officer size and the mags were cut to be flush fit.
They also dealt with the cartridge length issue in their 9mm magazines by shortening the follower and adding a plastic spacer in the back (makes the mags rattle).
For all the hell people give STI mags I’ve never had a problem with them from a feeding standpoint. The only issue I had was due to the design they would either not lock the slide back or lock it back with a round in the mag. This was a problem I had with STI and SVI mags. I just deleted the slide lock feature from my competition guns and they would run for thousands of rounds without cleaning.
Edit to add I found a picture of an STI magazine body packaging. They made mags in the following lengths: 105mm; 120mm; 126mm; 140mm; and 170mm.
yea got a V.I.P .40 😁kicks like a mule compared to the Apeiro and Edge in .40 i use for IPSC competitions...... and it is indeed a standard grip cut off at officer length and the magbody has been shorthend to fit flush.... still got 14+1 mag capasity in it tho 🙂
38 super work great in 1911s. A lot of hot rod 1911 use 38 supers. They are a much faster cartridges that work well with compensators for fast follow up shots. They also were very popular with police forces at one time.
VERY interesting story!!
with the redesigns that are inspired by competition, but ultimately designed for duty like the Staccato P, im curious to see if special forces units take another look at the company.... getting a lot of law enforcement right now, biggest problem with getting wide spread adoption is the cost at $2100 for base model...... Love my Staccato P..... Staccato 4life
I love that pistol, looks so mean
Thank you.
The Jaegerkorpset special unit of the Danish army purchased 180 STI Tactical 5.0 units at the end of 2006
awesome pistol.
Such a simple fix for the magazine issue. Im surprised how companies always overlook these types of things.
Very freaking cool!
2011 140MM magazines for 40 S&W usually get 19 to 21 rounds in 40 S&W while 170MM magazines get somewhere between 24-26 - depending on follower and spring setups. It's far more than the 17 that was stated in the video.
i load my 126mm (IPSC Standard Div rules) with 18rnds all the time...... so only getting 17rnds in a 140mag is definitivly way off the norm 🤣
Factory 140s get 18 I think. With different base plates, followers and springs 20 is the norm 21 if luck.
very cool.....I have one that looks almost like that one. will have to check it out
Very interesting!
Thanks Ian. That was interesting.
As to the sights on those '03's ... I was always under the impression that the Marines liked them and put them to good use.
Perhaps the problem was with the users - who had not received the marksmanship training the Marines had - and therefore weren't able to take full advantage of the sights strengths.
[?]
I can't remember if I've ever fired an '03 or not ... I had a bunch of buddies in High School who had a large mix of weapons ...
Ha! Ha! This reminds me of using a beat up, late war Arisaka that sight wise was the opposite of the Ladder Sights on the '03. While earlier versions of the weapon did have Ladder sights - this thing was very crudely made and it's sights consisted of a non-adjustable peep sight welded to the weapon. I liked it though. You had to use "Kentucky Windage" to change your point of aim but - that rifle but it's bullets right where you aimed them. It was dead accurate once you learned how to aim it.
Yeah ... my friends had all kinds of stuff ...
.
By now, the procurement documents for these pistols *should* be declassified - especially since everybody knows about it anyway; and a FOIA process (which isn't too terrible difficult) for the budget documents should give a specific quantity. Army property books are Army property books - especially if they sent the pistols back, and since it involves weapons, they are required to keep those records or send them to the National Archives.
An STI with a staccato mag is the ultimate combo. The STI's ran better than current staccatos do and throwing a staccato mag in one solves all the problems
There's been a .45 ACP STI Eagle at my local pawn shop for a few months now, and I'm wondering if that would actually be more reliable given the full cartridge length.
STI Eagle is a great gun that I can recommend strongly. I have a STI Rangemaster in .45 and its a treat to shoot.
Very interesting. It's easy to see why the magazine fit of the Delta ammo made this gun a no-go for them.
I want to see the Jericho 941fs in its' .41ae guise, hopefully you can get a hold of one eventually. I know it's basically a barrel, spring, and mag change from the regular gun - but it would be interesting to get an example as it's a "forgotten" variant of the weapon.
Seems kinda stupid they missed the mag issue. 1911 mags in 9mm / 40SW have a filler plate spot welded in the back wall of the mag with a shorter follower and spring.
Another option would be to use 10mm with a very heavy bullet and lighter powder charge.
Very cool pistol.
There were a set of these 40 on gun broker years ago.
Nice hoodie, Ian
Close friend of mine bought one of these he was army sf and was in the know on what they were I shot it several times great gun but horrible magazines at the time like you said gotta run special ammo or you have issues always regretted not buying it from him when he offered
Semi related. Jill Valentine from Resident Evil 3 has Delta Force training. She also uses an STI Eagle in the game as an unlockable
I met a few ODA guys in Afghanistan in 2012-2013 and they really didn't care about their pistols at all. half used 1911's and half used glock 19's. I think what surprised me the most was how little ammo they carried compared to me and my other 0311 marines. we had a minimum of 300 on the flak and another 300+ in day packs, not including 240 ammo. these guys rolled around with 6 mags, sometimes 3.
I can hear the theme music from the movie throughout this video.
This was the first handgun I ever fired. Theres a range by me that had one of these as a rental, I'm gonna go call them to see if they still have it/want to sell it...
Ian Great Video! I wonder why if the MAIN issue with the pistol was the magazine not being able to handle the Short Overall Length of the 40sw Cartridges Delta could have SWAPPED to 10mm Auto and had the 10mm Ammo Loaded to 40sw Spec or somewhere in between and kept the 2011 pistol.
Ian I do not if you are aware but Icarus Precision was asked to make a M17/Sig P320 Aluminum Frame that had the Same Grip Angle as the 2011 pistol by a US SOCOM Unit. I have owned one of the SOCOM Grip Modules from Icarus for almost a year now and I have it on a Full Size P320 40SW and it works AWESOME! I can see why a Military Unit would want to have the 2011 Grip angle in a 40sw.
I choose to believe that Ian always carries a spare Glock mag in his pocket.
You know, just in case he has to end someone rightly.
@Forgotten Weapons - Mr Jesus (Gun seems too formal) it appears that you have killed their website due to interest. In the 21st century, the deadliest calibre is 40x. In this case, the high velocity, DDoS round, which due to the low grain, can be delivered at a phenomenal rate of fire. Credit to the Cloudflare vest, although the reactive armour eventually renders the target unable to feel any incoming sensation at all.
Any chance for IPI Malyuk bullpup review?
My 40 cal STI Eagle is my best shooting gun. It is dead-on balls accurate. Looks like Staccto dropped 40 cal and went to 9mm exclusively.
My Eagle is a tack driver, as long as you keep the magazines tuned.
So a STI Bren Ten, cool!
Interesting one
These early .40S&W 2011 pistols work way better and more reliably if you convert it to 10mm Auto with a new barrel. 10mm fits perfectly in those magazines. Feeds way more consistently too. Delta would have been better served IMO with a 10mm 2011 and compared it against a Glock 20.
exactly what i was going to comment not really sure why Ian didn't mention that the magazine could fit 10mm
The magazine sticks out in a funny way.
I want that hoodie Ian!
Seems to me that if these were chambered in 10mm, none of these problems would have occured. More capcity and more power, what's not to like.
Recoil. Cost. Complexity.
Colt made a 10mm 1911 marketed as the Delta Elite. Gun Jesus has it.
Heh, Mandalorians, 10mm, 2011
Bless thee IMFDB
I can think of a few reasons. First, the plan was to have this serve alongside the Glock 22, which was probably already being purchased and deployed. Second, the heavy 10mm recoil is tough on the standard 1911 design; the barrel & slide lockup is just not meant for that kind of power. You can make it work, but it involves more than just changing a few springs to do it properly - especially for something that needs to hold up in combat. Finally, the 10mm Auto is a fairly niche and relatively expensive chambering even here in the US. The .40 S&W, on the other hand, was incredibly popular during this time period (early 2000s), with many very good and proven loads offered by a range of manufacturers owing to its popularity with the law enforcement sector.
Didn-t Kevin's blog go down a few years ago? I enjoyed reading for years after he passed away just to keep his memory fresh in my mind.
You could do a series on “forgotten STI/Staccato” guns. I own an STI Tactical SS 4.0 in 9MM. The “SS” stands for Single Stack; it’s an actual 1911, not the 2011 platform that STI is now known for. I believe it was produced in 2013 or 2014. If you go to their website you can’t find ANY info on it or of their other earlier models (i.e., Lawman, Executive, Duty One, etc.,).
P.S. It’s a phenomenal gun and I’ve had no issues in the 3 1/2 years I’ve owned it.
I used to have an STI 2011, not this one though. Really nice gun.
Larry Vickers had a good video on this as well. He said he still had one that he bought
IMHO…a rib formed in the rear of the magazine or a spacer spot welded inside the rear of the magazine to take up the distance difference with a modified follower would have corrected this issue. Back in the day this was done by one of the 9MM magazine companies (Megar I think) to help feed issues with the 9MM 1911s. I used these mags in IDPA competitions in the early-mid 2000s.
The solution - at the time - to the mag issue would be either a shorter magazine with an insert in the mag well, or just putting an insert in the back of the magazine.
Or ream out the chamber to 10mm. 😁
@@nucleargrizzly1776 that presents other issues - like a frame not meant for those energy levels.
I like 10mm, but I've standardized on .40 Smith; I don't mind the 'snappiness' of .40 - practice is all it takes to master the round - and it's lethally effective.
I was thinking this same thing. An insert and a new follower fixes this problem. Crazy they didn't take the week to put that together.
@@lairdcummings9092 It was designed to withstand the pounding of massively over pressure Super 38 rounds. I have a Chip McCormick 2011 (yeah I'm old AF) in 10mm/9x25 Dillon. 1.8 bazillion rounds down the pipe with no frame issues.
Lots of good guns missed out on being used for cool purposes because the cost of the modifications needed for the small size of the potential sale did not make economic sense. But in this case, being able to advertise that your pistols were used by Delta Force would seem to be worth the investment.
Pretty cool story about the pistol.
Great video as always, however I would ask a favor, you claimed that a 2011 is another name for a double stack 1911, when that's not actually factually true. Rock Island for example makes a high-capacity 1911 but does not call it a 2011 however they do manufacturer 2011 as well
Can you make a video on Remington R11 RSASS? It seems like an interesting gun but I couldn't any find good information about it.
competition gun platforms/parts seem trendy for use in actual combat situations. Some competition features make guns finnicky but i think a lot of features make sense to carry over.
The most recent racegun thing to get adopted on tactical guns is the red dot.
I just remembered! The STI Eagle was a weapon available in the Resident Evil series, so no wonder this name is familiar.