What if Imperial China Industrialized? (Alternative History Revisited)
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2023
- With the original video on this topic being my most consistently viewed video on the channel, I thought I would kick off the new year with a more in depth revisiting of a world in which Imperial China Industrialized.
With the original video on this topic being my most consistently viewed video on the channel, I thought I would kick off the new year with a more in depth revisiting of a world in which Imperial China Industrialized.
What would happen if imperial China joined the axis
@@evangamer5752 That idea would be quite cheeky, I would enjoy it as well @That Annoying American 1
@thatannoyingamerican1, please do a 3 part series of a more successful Anglo-American world order.
What if America Purchased western Canada and Greenland.
What if the Imperial Federation was successful.
What if enlgish carribean successfully united.
@thatannoyingamerican1 with the Chinese focus you're going with, please do a video on.
What if the taipeng rebellion was successful. FYI, taipeng rebellion was a Christian revolution.
What if the Shimabara rebellion was successful. FYI, a Japanese Christian revolution.
Great video
Here is truly a scary fact: in the 1850s, China had more than 35% of the world's population! It had more than double the population of British India (which included Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Burma at the time).
For a comparison, today China only has 15% of the world's population.
With this absurdly monstrous manpower, China could potentially dominate the entire world with ease if it had industrialised and become a colonial nation.
In the game Victoria 2, you can industrialise the Qing empire in the 1850s. By the early 1900s, you are so far ahead of the European great powers that it's not even funny. Your sheer industrial power is greater than all the other countries of the world combined, and literally nothing can stand on the way of your tens of millions-sized armies.
By then, the whole world would be speaking Chinese.
true
India would be just a few dozen million off of the population of China if not for the several disastrous famines under British rule. 3 famine alone have nearly 10 million deaths.
@@linming5610, maybe, maybe not. In any case, it didn't happen. China was the world's paramount power for nearly all history. It only ended in the First Opium War.
This is why there are so many checks on them today. They are like Russia was during its rise. Absolutely massive population, territory and economy. Terrible geography for a navy and politically backwards. The Russians main target of expansion was Constantinople because they needed open access to the ocean for their navy and industrialization.
YES FINALLY HE MADE A SECOND PART
Cheers for the video lad, I've been waiting on this one for a while truly a beautiful redux that ignited a new flame within the Chinese alternative history community ♥♥♥
This was a truly fascinating timeline. Can't believe I've only just discovered you.
What a great video!
Actually, China was a country that once almost reached industrialization in the Medieval Century. It was Song Dynasty.
Song Dynasty was the richest, wealthiest, and most developed dynasty in politics, literature, culture, etc. How developed? Surprisingly, Slavery once declined during Song Dynasty, and Song was not a country ruled by aristocrats like Louis XIV France, but it was ruled by bureaucracy. Moreover, Song had prime minister system was not exactly the same, but similar to early Britain or Germany during Bismarck. Song was an absolute monarchy empire, but Song was not a dictator country everything can be done by the emperor's will. Google "industrialization of the Song dynasty."
Then why Song almost reached but not finally reached industrialization before Britain? There are two reasons:
First: they did not have enough steel technology to invent the steam engine. It was too early age to produce steel with enough quality to make steam engines.
Second: A very simple word. "Mongol."
...Britain was able to achieve its industrialization thanks to their boundary wall calls the "ocean." If they were connected to Europe through land and invaded by Napoleon, would they have achieved industrialization?
tbf the Jin and Song empires were perfectly capable of swatting the mongols aside, the Jin had their massive armies, and the wall, and were on the defense and had large castles, the chinese have no one to blame but themselves for losing out on history.
First, it's because of Jin dynasty. By the time the Mongols had grown in force, Song dynasty has already declined. Second, Song dynasty is corrupt as heck. They killed their best generals for winning battles against Jin dynasty. Nearly recovering lost territories.
Wasn't the song dynasty in a war with its northern neighbors.
Britain would still industrialize but later.
The Ming Dynasty was also ruled by scholar-bureaucrats for most of its time and adopted a cabinet system. In addition, China in the Ming Dynasty also recovered from the destruction of the Mongols and began to approach industrialization again. Zheng He's great voyage took place in the Ming Dynasty. But the Manchus took advantage of the civil strife in the Ming Dynasty to destroy everything and dragged China into centuries of darkness.
Lore of What if Imperial China Industrialized? (Alternative History Revisited) momentum 100
Good video!
Love your video❤
I like this BGM! I can’t even believe there’s someone other than Chinese know this song! If Anyone want the version with lyrics. This song is called:爱殇
Can we get a video on Alternate History on the ottoman Empire
Maybe on what would happen if the ottoman empire didn't fall in the 20th century.
How would that affect the ww2
Cold War and oil.
This video is Awesoem!
good job with the video
The music for this video was really nice.But I would suggest to turn it down a little bit.
Probably one of my favourite alt hist scenarios. Would be cool to see though if China joined axis taking on the soviets and the west
Why would they join axis though. It’s one of the least nationalistic countries.
@@1mol831 bri'ish
@@1mol831 And I could definitely see china taking this opportunity and knocking out the communist regime once and for all, taking out the Soviets could mean a super power is no longer on their doorstep, but I'd imagine they wouldn't want the communist Chinese like mao having such a huge backer, without the Soviets eventually mao and his cronies would eventually give up and the communist Chinese party would disband.
why would China fight a war that originated from other side of the globe.
I could see that Japan and the US would be Allied if that happened, the USSR would fall and the ww2 ended in stalemate... Though i doubt that the US and China would go to war against each other instead the US would only focus on Nazi germany
Even if China industrialized, I don't think that will solve ALL of China’s problems. You hadn't covered the domestic policies of China. Also, I doubt Japan would give up its geopolitical goals after losing one war to China. China and Japan fought more than a few times after the First Sino-Japanese War. And would there be another war between the USSR and China now that China has retaken Vladivostok? Would there be more wars to reclaim it, and would China's army be able to defeat them? And Japan? And would America support China invading French Indochina when they didn't support Japan taking it? And would the Qing dynasty still stand today?
I don't think Japan can compete with China at the large scale. Principal for population and if China makes a Navy, it's over (also 2ww). So I think USA gonna prefer a parliamentary monarchy over a communist.
@@miguelia5002plus if the Qing are natural enemies of the Soviets then the US would be dumb to not attempt to ally with the Qing Dynasty
Had China industrialised and further developed their military, I doubt Japan would be interested in fighting them.
Countries only invade if there is a chance of winning, but a China with a matched modernised society and a population multiple times that of Japan, the war would be a waste of human lives.
@@vwati You over-estimate the judgement of Imperial Japan, even in our timeline they launched one of the most miserable campaigns in history willfully opening more fronts as it progressed, not saying they were idiots but they weren't too smart.
@@buzter8135 unlike the US and other Western powers at the time, China is much closer to them which means that those in power will be easily informed as to the capacity of China, and they also won't consider distance as an advantage.
If China industrialized early, the west wouldn't mess with them, which will make the Japanese in turn fear China
What if the Mameluks won against the Ottoman Empire? They don't get trounced surprisingly quick and the Ottomans have a rival to even power in the Eastern méditerraneen.
In which war? The Mamluks during Selim's conquest were far too incompetent, weak, and corrupt to resist Ottoman expansion and they would be trampled upon later since their victories in the Balkans and Anatolia/Iraq stabilized their rule over the territories they acquired and with the Balkan front no longer posing an existential threat to the Ottoman state it would just mean that the conquest of the Mamluk sultanate would be delayed
I wonder they be another golden age like space explanation
- New Japanese Empire ( moon colonies, and a Mars town size of poland.
-USA\Empire of Mars ( originality spacex until elon claims it as his own, making US like England in 1776, Elon colonie will be the size of Seattle in town.
- China Moon colonies ( small towns )
- UK having one moon base
I don't think the USA would intervene unless Japan attacks them, which, given the defeat against China, is higly unlikely.
In fact the whole outcome of WW2 might have been different.
The germans may have just settled with conquering mainland europe and not invaded the USSR, seeing that the USSR was no being threatened on both fronts. The British would have been forced to negotiate after a protracted siege of britain without the US getting dragged in by pearl harbour.
So instead of a bipolar cold war. we could have had a multipolar world divided up between the USSR, the US, what remains of the British empire, China and the Axis powers.
A suggestion for a future video:
What if Italy became a dictatorship in 1900? Irl, prime minister Luigi Pelloux, who had been a general fighting against peasant insurrections in the South, tried to pass a Public Safety Bill to reform the police force in reaction to the severe unrest that was going on in Italy. The law made strikes by state employees illegal; gave the executive wide powers to ban public meetings and dissolve subversive organisations; revived the penalties of banishment and preventive arrest for political offences; and tightened control of the press by making authors responsible for their articles and declaring incitement to violence a crime. It was stopped by the new strategy of obstructionism (developed in this context) by all the centre and left, but what if It had passed and paved the way for a legal dictatorship.
good idea
Or if Italy didn't switch sides in WW1
@@Orlando_P we didn't. We entered on the Allied side and there we remained
@@antoniomariamacri7500 But before the war the aliance was between Austria, Germany and Italy. And after the Otomans and bulgaria.
@@Orlando_PThe Triple Alliance was a joke. Italy and Austria had been basically forced to be with one another in order to be with Germany, but neither ever considered the other an ally:
Austria did not notify Italy on its intentions towards Serbia, which went against the treaty. They also weren't on the defensive, but on the offensive, Germany even declared war on Russia and France first. If that wasn't sufficient, Austria had annexed Bosnia some years prior, but refused to give Italy territorial compensations for that (another term of the Alliance).
In 1910, right after the Messina Earthquake, one of the worst natural disaster in European history, the Austrian military proposed the Emperor to exploit this and attack Italy. When the war started, and Germany tried to get Italy on their side, Austria refused to offer any of the contested territory to Italy, to much annoyment of the German Ambassador, the only pro-Italian people in the Empire were hungarians, like the Austro-Hungarian Ambassador in Rome. For all of these reasons, the debate in Italy was never between Entente and Central Powers, just between war (against Austria) and peace.
Very good
There's a reason why the country is called "The Sleeping Dragon"
pretty much all china has to do is not fuck up and it's unstoppable.
China and Europe are alike but unfortunately Europe was no longer under Rome which was the China of Europe
There are a lot of problems with this video, though.
Where did you find that song in the background is sounds really good.
Nice 👍
Can u do what if the Mongolian empire never fell
When China part 2?!?
Can you do what if the Greeks Industrialized During the city state era?
Nice
He did it
i feel like the fundamental constructs of the universe needs to be altered in order for this to happen
if china had modernized well in mid 19th century, then maybe it never become communist nation in 1949
If Japan didn't invade, then the ROC would very likely not have collapsed. Besides, the Qing were incapable of reforming. Too many of their officials were too stuck on their old traditions, and the imperial family had surprisingly weak authority. So even when an emperor tried to commence the massive social changes required to industrialize, the emperor was deposed, and Cixi was reinstated. By the time even she and her stubborn supporters realized that they absolutely had to change, it was far too late. The only way I could see the Qing reform would have been essentially a mirror of what happened in Japan. With a rebel movement of progressive elites that take over the country in a low-cost civil war and maintain the imperial family as a ceremonial post to protect their own legitimacy. I'm not even sure if that would work because the Manchu had become quite hated at this point and were often seen as outsiders. Maybe if they could somehow bring back the Ming royalty that could work.
If this happened what happens to Chang kai shek or sun yen sen would they still play a part in politics
sun yat sen would have had Much less support if china wasn't the basket case it was in the early 20th century.
He said the people in the government would be ethically Han Appeasing the Nationalists.
executed, you know sun yen sen's revolution supported by the Japan, in order to create chaos in China, and it did. China was broken into pieces because of him.
In this timeline mao probably just beacomes a general
China throughout history: I've collapsed for the 12301308th time
And I've rebuilt 12301309th time
Rome except it survived
What if Buddhism remained prominent in the Indian subcontinent (asia) what if they defended Islamic invasions successfully and established more educational institutions (medival universities throughout central, south asia? What if splits of Buddhism didn't happen in this timeline?
I've been asking this for the past 1 year
@@angrymanwithsillymoustasche Merry Christmas my friend, czcams.com/video/XHDi4u9u7lM/video.html
@@ThatAnnoyingAmerican That was nice but short, hope you will make a 'revisited' edition for Buddhism.
Also, can you try an alternate history on the 'Mughal Empire' in india? What if the mughal empire was more modernized due to European trade and influence.
@@angrymanwithsillymoustasche hmm, I will greatly consider both of those videos!
also theyd take tuva with outer manchuria
this timeline's china is bigger better stronger bigger better stronger bigger better stronger bigger better stronger bigger better stronger bigger better stronger.
Rome could contest with China but other than that I guess that is correct
I don't need sleep I need answers
truly a nightmare
the good ending?
what if spanish empire industrialized ?
Mmm yes,,, very wise timeline,,, 🐉 🐼
no soviet chinese war?
probably too frightened of starting a 2 front war.
the qing dynasty was never able to conquer tibet. the three parts of tibet were never captured
Did you even learn history? Tibet attached themselve to the Qing dynasty, after what happened to dzungar, and they were freed.
Making a Hearts of Iron IV mod that takes place in this concept, If the Qing won the Opium wars, though
Would the Qings even want to industrialize if they were still able to fend off invaders? Won't they just go "oh since it still works we don't need to change anything"
No CCP red madness, that's for sure, maybe no tofu dreg projects as well...and less population...
12:05 somewhat like russia today
China
You missed Tannu Tuva
What about it? Tanna Tuva was part of the Qing
"guangZHu"
"sYxi"
"HosAEn"
History is written by the winer mf's when the Germans literally control the narative about ww2
It was written by people who witnessed the occur of this events, not winner
Imperial China❌️
Imperial Manchu✔️
Manchu's culture are literally inspired by the Ming which are led by the Han Chinese. Even after the capitulation of the Ming, the Manchus further assimilated into Han culture, making them literally Chinese. Qing's official language and national anthem are in Chinese mandarin not in manchu, Manchu was a temporary identity the northern tribes made up. Today, there are rarely any Manchus, most of them mixed with ethnic han chinese.
Manchu declared the Qing as a Chinese nation and recognized the former Ming as its predecessor. So Imperial China is accurate. Ethnic Han and the Nation of China are two different concepts.