Famicom Data Recorder and NES Programmable Series
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- We reveal the mystery behind the NES Programmable Series of games, and how their Japanese Famicom counterparts were able to save data with the aid of the Family Keyboard and Famicom Data Recorder. We also demonstrate alternatives to using this technology, as well as run down the contemporary ports that don't require additional hardware to use all of the game features.
Compatible Games:
• Excitebike
• Castle Excellent (Castlequest)
• Mach Rider
• Wrecking Crew
Related Videos:
• ASCII TurboFile: • ASCII TurboFile for Fa...
• Cartridges and Pins - Hidden Famicom-to-NES Converters: • Cartridges and Pins - ...
Read more, and download game save MP3 files at FamicomDojo.TV:
famicomdojo.tv/c/videos/winter...
Jump to your favorite part:
• 00:00 - Intro
• 02:21 - Data Recorder Overview
• 05:09 - Family Keyboard
• 05:56 - Mach Rider
• 06:40 - Wrecking Crew (Cart)
• 08:02 - Castle Excellent
• 09:35 - Loading Games
• 10:56 - Wrecking Crew (FDS)
• 11:36 - Vs. Excitebike (FDS)
• 12:45 - Data Recorder Alternatives
• 15:04 - Excitebike (e-Reader)
• 15:19 - Castlequest (NES)
• 16:34 - Vinnk 198X (feat. Rob Matsushita)
• 17:19 - Versions with save data
- Excitebike (Game Boy Advance)
- Excitebike (Wii, Wii U Virtual Console)
- Excitebike 3D Classics (3DS eShop)
- Excitebike: World Rally (WiiWare)
- Excitebike: Bun Bun Mario Battle Stadium (Satellaview, Super Famicom)
• 19:47 - Vinnk 198X’s Mix Tape (feat. Sarah Tasz, Rob Matsushita)
Follow Famicom Dojo:
• Patreon: / famicomdojo
• Subscribe: / famicomdojo
• Facebook: / famicomdojo
• Twitter: / famicomdojo
• Instagram: / famicomdojo
• Podcast: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/f...
SeanOrange is a retro game fan from the US. Vinnk is a retro import fan who took things one step further and moved to Japan. Together they make Famicom Dojo: a web series dedicated exploring the Japanese history of video games and consoles from the other side of the Pacific.
#Famicom #ImportGaming #FamicomDojo - Hry
The fact that you can save the data in a different way than intended using modern technology is pretty dang cool.
Strelok Kosugi Even cooler, when you use it along with Family Basic, you can actually share small games.
@spoon ask jeeves
Fantastic episode, I wish they were all this length! It's kinda strange to think that we're still using pretty-much the same audio connectors.
right? i found it disappointing, and tough to get used to my android, that doesn't have a 3.5 mm jack , and if you see it there was plenty of space for one to be put.
@@emptyspotlight blame Apple
A 21 minute episode of famicom dojo, now this makes me very happy.
You guys never stop making my day. I can't believe it's been almost a decade since I found your channel and watching all you guys (Sean, Vinnk, Sindra, JewWario [R.I.P], Awesomo, etc.) Never go away guys! 😊
+Ice Kokoro Thank you so much! We have BIG PLANS for 2017!
Eek! I cant wait! Will you do the Family Basic?
Family Basic is on the backlog.
7:43 "It's all ladders" LOL. I used to do that with Wrecking Crew all the time as a kid. Thumbs up if you used to do that too.
I love how crazy the workarounds for saving in ye olden days were.
Good ol' 80's tech.
Roxie ღ Just as crazy as things we do now will look in the future =)
Back in 2020 I bought this. I still have it on my nightstand as a novelty. I played around with this thing with actual cassette tapes. It’s a good item to have.
It’s definitely the prettiest tape player we’ve ever owned!
That was a great episode, I really enjoyed it!!!
Surely you must be laughing at Sean for not knowing how to use tapes as a data storage medium since you grew up on computers that stored games on cassette tapes.
therealhardrock Sometime we pretend to not know things in the videos. One of the first computers I ever used was a TRS-80 with a cassette drive.
what are u doing here nigga
Larry Bundy Jr hey I know you, you jolly old Brit
WADDUP Bob Person. THANKS FOR THE LOVE> i'm Here for the because u a genius electioneer
For those who are wondering, data cassette tapes sound like Cthulu taking a really big dump
I had The Castle on tape for MSX. :)
I'm sure the msx had better sound. And you didn't have to press stop, as the data recorder was controlled by the computer.
I can confirm that The Castle was released on cassette tape on at least one platform: the Sharp X1 computer. Castle Excellent also got a port for it, which was released in 1985, obviously predating the Famicom version. Not only that, this port was also released on tape.
+Nintendo Era Awesome! Do you have either of these yourself?
I have the roms, which are downloadable here: craigandersonthemes.weebly.com/sharp-x1.html Just click on the "here" where it says "Everything can be downloaded from here." which is towards the top. I know they were on tape because the extension is .tap, the rest usually use .d88 or .2d
Edit: The Castle's full name is The Castle and The Princess. I tried it out, it's basically Castle Excellent on more primitive technology.
Can a future episode talk about FAMILY BASIC?
Yup.
That's Orange That's the one episode I've been looking forward to since you guys started in 2007. The Family BASIC is an awesome concept but the barrier to entry - knowing BASIC, be able to read Japanese, having the set up, and then learning the specifics of HuSHARP BASIC from the rather meaty manual, I've never really done much with the Family BASIC, although to my knowledge the two versions of Family BASIC are the only Famicom games ever made that use AA batteries for data storage.
Please coverage the differences between the V2 and V3 carts. I own V3 CIB and know it included some built-in sample games, but I don't know enough BASIC to fumble around with the HuSharp BASIC the thing uses to properly make any games.
Oh man. No pressure, right?
That's Orange Yeah, you need to learn BASIC if you dont know it already and the V3 is rather rare. I can see why you haven't covered it.
Well, we have the carts already, it's just (like you said) creating some sample programs to show off how it works. Vinnk has a manual he still needs to send me. It's in Japanese, but the code itself is in English. I haven't been able to figure out how to do a loop yet, hahaha.
But there are also some non-code things, such as the UI for the carts being different, and the wider range of predefined sprites.
Ha! It would be fun to compare and contrast to Mario Maker.
Everything that you guys do is amazing. For the love of God, never stop making videos!
I love all the throwback gags to old episodes
I was always curious about that and never researched it. Well done!
This was an awesome video! When I saw the video length, I knew I was in for something good! Very informative, and I loved all of the throwbacks and references. Speaking of which, at 7:15, was that supposed be parodying 1984? Anyway, thanks for the genuine experience with the Data Recorder and the tutorial on how to put the tracks onto MP3s, that could be really cool if I ever get a Family Keyboard. I also loved how you threw in information about other things like Castle Quest and other Excitebike games (I never knew about the Satellaview version, holy crap!), it definitely makes it all the better. Can't wait for next week!
Man this channel is still underrated even after 7 years.
Thanks! We have a lot coming to celebrate the upload of our first video sixteen years ago on the @SeanOrange channel!
Vinnk is finally back!!! Yes!!!
salozmen29 Thank you. but.. Did I go somewhere? The last 2 videos were ones with only me (and my kids).
liked before i even saw the episode. this is what ive been waiting for
it might be worth it to annotate this episode with the fact that Vs. Excitebike recently got a Wii U virtual console release as well.
Right? I swear Nintendo must watch our videos...
Since annotations went away, we instead added time stamps to the description, and the detail there.
Other games like Lode Runner, Nuts & Milk and Arkanoid II have a level editor system implemented in those games, and they take advantage of the Data Recorder. One more game took advantage of the Data Recorder and that was Family BASIC, the game that came bundled with the Famicom keyboard.
We REALLY gotta do that part 2 video… it’s been almost 10 years since this one!
damn, it's been awhile since I've seen these guys. I used to watch this channel in the late 2000's and I just re-discovered it.
I think that, of all of the Famicom Dojo videos, I have watched this video the most. I still can't wait for a Family Basic episode. :D
We’ll get there!
Great to see you guys back at it! I missed you two. =3
Davin Turner Thanks it's great to be back. Keep watching the channel, coming up is a video with not only both Sean and I, but with us both in the same location.
Vinnk Awesome!~ ^-^
That's got to be easier on production!
Davin Turner Yes! ...well... except for the flying to America part.
Vinnk Yeah! Besides that! X3
Vinnk By the way, your daughter is so kawaii!~ \^-^/
I'll bet she'll be a great and wise game master like her Dad! =D
I love these guys humor...just discovered this channel
We hope you’re enjoying Spring Training 2018!
Wow! How did you get JD from scrubs cast to play past you in this video??! I'm impressed!
Victory cabbage. Those were the days. Kind of brings a tear to my eye thinking about it :')
being born in 97 it's so hard to wrap my head around saving by using a tape lol geez i'm never taking saving for granted anymore.
I wonder if vinnk saved those recordings on the data recorder
Hmm, that tape deck looks exactly like every tape deck from the 80's. Some tape decks actually had counters on them, which made them more useful for computer use, but in general the tape-era was a pain and nobody I knew had one.
What would be interesting is if those new NES/Famicom FPGA made by third parties units could run the family basic/famicom disks and just use a conventional storage device.
The data cassette recorder and computer keyboard were slated to be part of the original Advanced Video System.
14:21
Famicom Dojo Predicted Mario Maker
I just tested my Famicom mini Excitebike and Wrecking Crew cart and ExciteBike is identical to the NES Classic Series and E-reader versions. I might look to see if the programming still exists in these versions.
Wrecking Crew '98 for the SFC can save your NES tracks.
I'll take the signal sounds over dubstep anyday. At least they evoke some nostalgia, since they sound kind of like an old dial-up modem.
this deserves 100,000+ likes
I remember cassettes. Only used them for music. Glad I never was part of the 8 bit gaming era where games used cassettes for this sort of thing. Although, if I were to do this now, I would use my smart phone in place of the cassette deck with the proper audio cables. Record and play each save as individual audio files to make sorting, storing, and naming easier. Still would need the Famicom versions along with the keyboard...
Please do a video specifically on family basic. It would be interesting to learn more about it. I'm trying to figure out what is needed to create a modern replacement adapter for the family computer keyboard with data recorder support using a ps/2 or a USB keyboard. That way all you will need is a copy of family basic in the future.
That IS interesting! I wonder if in some cases only most keys would do what you expect, or none of them. Hmm…
Great stuff. Great channel. Subbed.
Pressing the buttons Play/Load and Record/Save at the same time is a Safety feature, to prevent an accidental recording over existing soundtrack. | There are indicators on the Cassette to show you which part of the tape you are playing, just Fast Forward or Rewind to your desired location.
I love Castle Excellent. Serious. It's a great game!
"Siri... get off my lawn!" Hahaha!!!
One of my favorite episodes
Thanks! Hard to believe it’s almost three years old now. It still feels “new” to us.
Now a days since the 5th generation of games, you can now save games on Memory Cards, RAM carts and hard drives.
Otaku_GameFan That's why these Virtual Console versions are (nearly) all superior to owning the original hardware.
Not to mention recordable CDs, DVDs and BDs along with SD cards and USB flash drives.
Apparently the ASCII Stick 2 Turbo has Tape I/O ports as well!
You guys should cover Family BASIC!
Great video, fellas!
+Broyale26 Thanks. We really enjoy making these longer videos.
2:30
I thought the Famicom was released in 1983... or are you referring to the cassettes?
RarefoilB They're referring to the compact cassettes.
Recording on a laptop... reminds me when I recorded couple programs from my Casio FX-702P on my laptop.
That calculator was _kinda old_ for 2012, but it was very handy and capable.
Even if most professors didn't allow students to use modern programmable calculators at university, this one was an exception, because you don't have anything ready there and you need to do everything from scratch.
So... in the words of one of my professors: "if you are able to write a program on this _piece of archaic technology_, you probably put some effort on learning the language of that calculator, you already study enough and have a clue how to calculate things properly and you deserve the time saved by your own programs, but people will be probably mad at you - hehehe".
After sometime, I started to backup my programs, because the battery of that calculator was dying (damn... 15 years with the same lithium battery!) and the power switch was not working properly and could corrupt the memory.
Funny thing: the "technological museum" inside that university got one of those exposed on a glass box and people couldn't believe I was still using that piece of 80's technology without any problem.
It’s kinda cool I watched this video when it was new before my accounts existence
That just means it’s oooooooold. (Like us!)
Hopefully you’re subscribed on the new account to see all the awesome new stuff we’re gonna release this year! ;)
The tape recorder only released in Japan what a bummer.
The keyboard is the more critical part, and even then it’s only a passthrough for two leads. I bet someone could duct tape together an adapter for the NES, and then any old tape deck (with mic in and headphone out) would be compatible.
Somehow, cassettes are making a comeback. It might be an opportunity for some new data recorders, especially since i want to play Castle Excellent (and be able to save).
Theoretically it IS possible to save using the NES. All of the FC expansion port pins are on the NES expansion port including the audio internal audio output (pin 2 on Famicom, pin 3 on the NES) The only issue is loading Since it doesn't have an audio input, but I assume that's wired up to the player 2 D1 or D2 pins.
Yeah, you could probably rig up an Ext port and plug a Family Keyboard into it, but since there was no first party solution we didn't cover it. Someone mentioned in the G+ post that such a device exists. That IS interesting. I'd like to try it out some time.
That's Orange Turns out I was wrong. The audio input amplifier is ALSO on the NES expansion port.
Yeah, it looks like all of the controller pins are in the EXP port, which is how the ENIO board is able to function. Cool, right??
the data recorder could also be used with family basic.
I know this video was released before the NES Classic Edition came out. And when the latter came out one year later, they've included an Excitebike ROM with SRAM which made saving custom tracks actually possible without losing them. Too bad they didn't give Mach Rider or Wrecking Crew the same treatment...
Maybe it’s a patched ROM
@@christiangomez2496 It IS a patched ROM. I'm glad Nintendo took the time to make custom track saving in Excitebike on the NES Classic Edition function as originally intended using SRAM rather than the Data Recorder.
@@PlantedWave5190 like pre patched or patched on the fly? Because then it could be used with other games
@@christiangomez2496 I believe it was pre-patched. I extracted the ROM from my NES Classic Edition, did some hex editing for fixing, and threw it in an emulator. Custom track saving and loading functions with SRAM as intended.
@@PlantedWave5190 You know how the first two generations of Pokémon had a 3ds rerelease?
For people in the last few years after this video, we can safely say that the Virtual Console updated automated save capability for Excitebike was fortunately carried over to the NES mini and NES online service version for the Nintendo Switch. That just means don’t need to worry about tapes or audio jacks nor nothing, just select and save/load. I have tested a few ways without save states by returning to Game selection or resetting. Yes I even turned off the whole NES mini and could still reload it again.
So....when's that Family Basic episode coming out?
I'd like to know that the Famicom data recorder could he plays Madonna cassette tape song or not? or generously cassette song?
with a specific adaptor it's possible to connect the famicom keyboard on the expansion port of a nes and it works with famicom games
We’re gonna give that a shot.
This channel funny glad i found it
This needs more views
thanks for the ❤️
"Is there even any dubstep in here?"
What's the difference? XD
Scott Blacklock I have to say, since I have been living in Japan for the last 11 years I am not 100% sure what dubstep even is.
Vinnk WA WA WEEWEEWEE WO WEEWEEWEEWOA WOW WOH WOH WAM
is dubstep.
Scott Blacklock It hurt my ears just reading that.
Vinnk I think that's the point
Scott Blacklock I can't wait till we can look back on dubstep as a fad of the past (i.e. when the time finally comes when it's no longer THE mainstream overused thing and we're over it... please, god)
If you turn up the volume on your TV to maximum and select 'SAVE' you can actually hear the sound signal that would be recorded onto the tape. (this only works on an original NES or Famicom, not any of the emulated versions). I dare say that if you found out what pins on the expansion port the signals were going to, you could rig something up to save and load stuff on real hardware!
We’re in the process of wiring up some adapters for Famicom peripherals on the NES, but since some of those pins are routed to the expansion port on the bottom of the NES it might require some rigging up indeed.
Thank you very much for your videos and effort. One question. Are you planning to make Famicom Dojo episode about - Square button 1st Run Famicom? It was an interesting thing.
+Kirils Skrabe Yup. As soon as I can track one down.
A friend of ours found one at Midwest Gaming Classic a course me years ago. This is the most footage we found of it (but perhaps he would let us film it if we asked nicely?): czcams.com/video/JXR4B5UhXnA/video.html
Um, Sean and Vinnk, you completely forgot Lode Runner. The Famicom version of Lode Runner could be used with the Famicom Data Recorder. In fact, Lode Runner was one of the first video games to employ a level editor.
***** Well, hot damn! We'll check that out. This is unsurprising as Hudson was involved in the HuBASIC that the Family BASIC cart uses, which can also save out to the Data Recorder. We also heard about another game too, and will be checking them out.
***** Lode Runner Confirmed. Already started filming the follow-up.
Vinnk Far out! Can't wait to see it!
I have 3D classics:Excitebike and it saves tracks on the 3DS memory
so, if there was supposed to be a save peripheral for the nes, it must be writing to one of the pins on the bottom. you could figure out which one with an oscilloscope and rig up a wire to record and playback. it would be pretty easy. to find the record pin. might take some trial to find the playback pin... although im sure someone somewhere has already done this...
Someone linked a diagram in another link, and it identified NES EXP 43 as one of the pins, which is almost certainly one of the pins in the port on the bottom. We’re gonna see if we can’t put something together.
just curious... suppose someone did make an add-on for the NES, would excite bike's save function actually work? what I'm REALLY asking is... does the NES excite bike know to look to the expansion port for further instruction?
It should. That's where the pins are routed. Someone could rig up an adapter for the Family Keyboard to figure it out.
The only thing that wouldn't work is on-cart extra sound channels.
Wow, that is a really good episode about the Data Recorder... but I do have a question. You said the nes games don't work with the data recorder but what if you had a convertor so you could play NES games on a Famicom? Would it work then?
Yeah. I think that's implied by showing that early Programmable Series carts had a Famicom converter inside. It should work the other way too.
Konacha37 Yup, it would work. The code is the same.
Out of curiosity, does the Famicom keyboard do any kind of processing when it is reading/writing tape data, or does it simply act as a physical adapter between the Famicom expansion port and the tape in/out jacks? If it's only making a connection between the exp. port and the jacks, couldn't you just make a Famicom to tape adapter using a DB15 connector and 4 wires?
After a few minutes of Googling, looks like there is a little bit of processing, but a relatively simple circuit to make! Just cut one end off a Neo Geo extension cable and do some soldering :) assemblergames.com/l/threads/use-the-data-recorder-on-the-famicom-without-the-keyboard.58807/
Woo, thanks! NES EXP 43 is probably on the bottom of the console, as we feared...
The Famicom's Microphone on the Second Controller actually was designed for this Saving and Loading purpose using ANY Cassette Player, but scrapped in favor for the Keyboard dongle. Load the Data from the Cassette Player, by using the Second Controller near the Cassette Player's speaker. Save the Data to the Cassette, by using the Cassette Player's microphone near the TV's speaker. Of course should such thing ever occured, what prevents people from Saving, Loading, and Sharing Nintendo games using Cassette Tapes?
If your interested in saving things to cassette tapes check out audio paint and sonic visualizer.
THE BTTF REFERENCE THOUGH XD
"Those Beatles should get haircuts."
*"And real jobs."*
Awesome episode.
Vinnk needs to look at the camera. It's like he's trying to talk to someone sitting behind you.
George Moore Yeah, I need to work on that. My tripod was too high and my chair too low. But I didn't want to move my head up to look at the camera so I looked more or less directly forward. I'll fix that for the next video. I does look a bit odd.
Was the Hyrule Historia/Wrecking Crew joke a reference to your finding Wrecking Crew on that Zelda disk?
+Nintendo Era Maaaaaaybe...
Yes it all works. Ive been using a sony digital recorder for saving and loading tracks. For what ever reason loading basic programs can not get working unless its from a computer. Weird.
Muito informativo o show, um salve do brazil
Did you get an ENIO for the toaster NES?
a new Epic from Famicom Dojo, waited over a year for this.
But it was worth it.
@Sean: I could trade some tracks with you, if I had made some ^^;;
In the commentary for the DVD you put out, you said that you would never use the old man again.
Did we actually say that, or was it something like "people didn't respond well to this character, so maybe we won't use him any more"?
Either way, that's a Past Sean & Vinnk problem! Future Sean and Viink are in charge now!!
That's Orange Seriously, stop pretending there's more than one of you. And stop pretending that you don't hear the consoles talk. On the commentary of the DVD for episode 3, Vinnk said that his wife threw away his old man costume "so those of you who hated the old man and don't want to see him again, your wish is granted." You and Vinnk talked about how unpopular the third episode of Famicom Dojo was and how fans didn't like the old man.
Well the old man is forever back to haunt you lol
If you like the video please consider sharing. It really helps.
I hope you see this, because I'm sharing it as hard as I can...!
could play generally cassette tape song ? I don't have this thing ,so I ask you for my information.
Pattie Lovecatsmell It's just a standard tape deck. There's nothing special about it. It should be able to play any normal audio tape.
That's Orange Thank you, Sir
Ah cool, I've rediscovered you
Wouldn't it be possible to use the built-in mic to "label" saved data, easing a little the task of finding things?
For example, you shout into the mic "My awesome level of wrecking crew" and then you record the data stream.
radornkeldam Yep! I believe we recommend that nonchalantly in the video.
If you did, I missed it. But judging from this 10:02 I would say you didn't
The only reference to using the built-in mic I could find, was this 4:45, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with labeling data at all.
Is there any new
Xavix port games ??
I would like to know
Oh my god so many references lol
Like here at 4:14
9:21 Well I guess you were right from that Q&A Sean
Yay, now I can save my Zelda game :D
Was there an actual floppy drive for the keyboard
You are almost there... just get faster dialogs and scenes and i think i'll be worth watching it
hehe great ending :D
When's that family basic video comin?
Uhhh...
Vs. ExciteBike, Available on Wii U Virtual Console, now.
How does it sound when you try to record music using that device?
About how it sounds when the song is playing in the video. We actually recorded it onto a tape with the Data Recorder, and then played it back for the camera’s mic to pick up from the speaker. Verisimilitude!
I can't get games to load. I know they're saving, and I've tested the DR with headphones so it's not that, but I'm not sure if it's the keyboard or something else. I'm using an AV Famicom, and I've heard that a few controllers (specifically some joysticks) don't work on it for some reason. Has loading been tested to work on an AV Famicom?
Nintendo Era The biggest problem I've had is that the volume on the tape deck wasn't high enough. We didn't try it on the AV Famicom yet, but can give it a whirl.
Thanks, I've tried everything I've been able to find. I had a thread about it on Famicom World last year, but wasn't able to find anything out.
That's Orange Did you ever check the AV Famicom? I do believe it's the keyboard, though, as it's not working on my AV modded Famicom either.
That could be. It may be possible wire up an adapter that bypasses the need for a keyboard.
Hmmm, project...
So can you use a different tape deck instead of the data recorder?
As long as it has line out and microphone ports? Most assuredly.
Thanks
Using the "SAVE" jack on the Famicom Keyboard as a microphone port and using it in place of the microphone on the Player 2 controller wouldn't work, right?
No, I don't think the Keyboard is wired to work that way, and even if it were I don't know if the extension port is wired to work that way.
+That's Orange Here's a question, can you use the Second Controller's microphone to Load data into the game? You don't have to show us the result, just try it for yourself.
The Vs. ExciteBike Arcade Game For The Nintendo Family Computer Disk System
Is it weird I just want the data recorder to just play old tapes I have? haha Nice Back to the Future II reference.
abeardwithtattoos There are MUCH cheaper tape players.
haha Oh I know.. but if money were no object. I’d have one 😏
Music:
"Famicom Thrash"
Composed and Performed by The Imari Tones
"R.P.G. (Instrumental)"
Composed by The Imari Tones