The Two Births And The Meaning Of The Tree of Life
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The angelic hosts in 1 Nephi 11, tell Nephi of two births. Both are acts of "condescension." This is the meaning of the Tree of Life. God condescended to be in mortality, condescended into the waters of baptism, and condescended below all of us in Gethsemane and on the Cross. Condescension IS the Love of God. Those that condescend and offer the Pure Love of Christ, will then be exalted by God.
The Great and Spacious Building is on the opposite side of the gulf in Lehi's Dream. It is juxtaposed to the Tree of Life and therefore represents pride, or "lifting oneself up" only to fall.
"Son of God" is not so much a description but rather a title. It is used in relation to the condescension of God.
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#CwicShow #lds
In marriage men are especially commanded to become like Him, "love you wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it". I used to think that just meant be willing to die for you wife. Then as time went on I came to realize it also meant making self sacrifices for her as well. Recently I started thinking what gives Christ's sacrifice it's "oomph". He rose again on the third day. If we as husbands want to truly empower our wives through our sacrifices we need to "rise again" as well and become more than what we were before we made said sacrifice. It's the fact that Christ rose again that let's us have faith in him. Also the fact that he only waited 3 days means we need to not wait too long to rise again either.
YES! Thank you Greg Matsen. I understand that there are those in the church wanting to acknowledge Heavenly Mother, and I can appreciate that deeply, but I feel VERY strongly that The Tree of Life holds crucial parallel symbolism with the Cross and with Christ. And we need to hold onto that even while we appreciate Heavenly Mother. On my mission in the south I remember reading about "He hath descended below all..." And it struck me that this was the defining difference between Lucifer and Christ. Lucifer is not willing "to go down". He wants to go straight up. In an attitude of non-surrender. And it was Christ who was willing to go down and then up. And this is crucial difference between the two of them.
Fantastic video!
Thought-provoking insight into Lucifer. Too many people want to ascend to a higher plane of existence without being willing to descend or to acknowledge God's help in the ascension.
@@gemelindacjp7976 Thanks. Yeah. I agree! And maybe there's a journey to the trust and humility involved, but, it really IS the only way to Heaven. That submission.
You mean heavenly mothers ie more than one..don't you??
@@dreampurplequeen1 Guess we'll see. I don't know how all that works. I just always picture One Heavenly Father, One Heavenly Mother. Beyond that I don't know. But I figure I'll find out when I get there. :) It's cool if you picture it a little differently though.
@@dreampurplequeen1 I feel certain that there are several (many?) Heavenly Mothers, but there is only one Heavenly Mother of Jesus Christ.
THANK you! This is the focus of this vision and message in Chapter 11 for good reason. It's not to take away from women and motherhood, but it is specifically to focus on Christ as the one who descended below all and ascended above all. It's the ONLY way back. HE is the only way back. It's a far superior message to personal salvation than the fact that we all have a heavenly mother and that there is feminine divinity. It takes ZERO away from that. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for being that voice willing to maybe even inadvertently go against "trendy" conversation to point out that text and the context in these passages. ❤️
Thank you so much for all your enlightening remarks!! My mind was blown away because my eyes were opened ina huge way! These are all things I can think of and about when I am in the temple! I'm going to watch this over & over!
This is such a great insight and one I have felt is true as I’ve studied this year. I’d even expand this to liken it to the specific covenants that we make in the temple to condescend and live the law of the gospel. It’s clear to me that this is the true order of the priesthood. Surely Gods power is condescension. It is the opposite to secret combinations which are to put others down to get gain.
Thank you Greg! I can listen to this all day. Personally I like these types of videos much better than the social justice focus
@considerthetruth at least a little MORE of this. Greg is a wonderful teacher!! ❤
Mosiah 15 God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God
Love the Brandon Sanderson reference haha loved that! Totally connected with you on that haha
It is a matriarch, patriarch, religion… it is the matriarch that knows who the father is,knows the son prepares the son and presents the son and chooses the son.
very nice mr cwic , interesting times we are witnessing
We do not take the name of Christ upon us when we partake of the sacrament or at water baptism; we only show that we are willing to do it. This points us to another event in our lives that we must seek for (the baptism of fire and the holy ghost, 2 Nephi 31:17). Elder Oaks has an excellent talk on this. King Benjamin teaches this well in Mosiah 5, and Alma teaches it well in Mosiah 27 when he talks about becoming the sons and daughters of Christ; that is when we take his name upon us. I am sad that basic principles as taught in the scriptures are not taught very well or broadly in the church today. This is just one example among many.
Elder renlund recently spoke on this also
The church does teach that we don’t take Christ name upon us until we go to the temple .
@@lindamartinez7006 We take the name of Christ upon us when we become the sons and daughters of Christ through the baptism of fire and the holy ghost (see Mosiah 5). The garment is a symbol of taking upon yourself the name of Christ (Temple initiatory), but it is NEVER stated in the temple that we are taking the name of Christ upon us; only symbolically. We take his name upon us when we receive the baptism of fire and the holy ghost. At least that is what the scriptures teach.
@@jimmckin333 our prophets and apostles have taught many many times that baptism and the firs of the Holy Ghosf is that we are willing to take upon us the name of Christ . Everything leads to the temple . The gay sting the name of Christ being sealed to Jesus Christ . Look up some talks on it . There are so many talks in at General conference fire sides temple teaching . How can you miss it . Until you go the temple you take the name of Christ upon you . Don’t you read the teachings of prophets . It is everywhere . Look it up .
Great insights, Brother Matsen. Thank you for working so hard to present these videos to us! May the abundance of Heaven be yours!
You are very welcome
Thank you for sharing. I have believed since I was a child that we need to become like him.
You have explained it well. Thank you.
thanks!!! very good information!!!
Don't forget that David and Mary are not just names, but titles as well, used by and referred to many saints over the years.
Thanks so much for your videos and work! I really appreciate it! I also sent you an email through your website. Thanks again.
You’re welcome
good explanations. i was edified and motivated
Very nice!
Great pic of the tree of life...I could use on my podcast....how can I get a copy
its a preeminent vision/parable
in all of scripture... many ways to
consider but I especially like how
as a diamond of truth the building
is parallel to the rod as the 2
ARTIFICIAL items in the dream
Greg, have you read The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson? If so did you like it or see gospel principles in the book?
Loved it!
Amen
Greg,
When I play golf, I do my best to stay out of hazards. Lately, it seems to me you like playing, in the weeds, tall grass, and sand traps. I'm a simple man. For me, God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, live. Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God. The Lord's church has restored, The of Mormon is another Testament of Jesus Christ, and Russell M Nelson is the Lord's Prophet at this time. Maybe I don't look for the mysterie but that said with all my heart I'm grateful for my testimony.
I definitely play in the hazards. Someone has to. The hazards are growing in size and the weeds are growing in length. The golfers are falling into the sand traps.
@@CwicShowand you share your gifts with others so well .. thank you for being willing to use your acquired knowledge and wisdom and point out some of those hazards. I know I have been strengthened and feel better equipped as a mother and grandmother to help loved ones navigate much of what is happening in society. And being aware I am empowered and more willing to defend truth and stand strong. Please.. never stop!
@@asarg1776 Really appreciate that!
Do you suppose scripture notes can incorporate other source documents like greek Hebrew original translations blue Bible type multiple bible translations
Agreed
Also, it’s interesting that there are two mothers referred to in the vision which correspond to the two churches, Mary the mother of Jesus and the mother of abominations. Mothers represent churches because they gather disparate elements in to form a body. And so, the body of Christ is gathered in the church represented by his Mother, a covenant woman. The whore of all the earth is outside the covenant and she gathers her own body within her to fight against the Lamb. She rides the the waters of chaos and Mary or Heavenly Mother, however you want to see it, is a symbol of the Ark of the Covenant, a precious chosen vessel, crossing the waters carrying the body of Christ until it lands safely in the Millennium.
The Virgin Mary is the Mother of the Son of God after the manner of the flesh. Is it a stretch to think that perhaps our Mother In Heaven condescended into mortality and was the Virgin Mary after the manner of the flesh? I also know for myself that 1 Nephi 11 is about the Son of God, even Jesus Christ. All through History there has been Female Deity worship. The Catholic Mary, Venus, and a host of other female deities seem to be a mortal default. We will not let that happen here. Thanks to You Greg and to Val Larsen. Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. Worlds without end, Amen.
1 Peter 5
The elders are to feed the flock of God-Humility and godly graces lead to perfection.
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
Could there be a play on the word "father" throughout this section? Could that word in verse 6 mean "God the Father" instead of / in addition to "Lehi the father." That would give better context to the next verse, in which the angel proclaims "Hosanna to...the most high God" and His Son. The Tree symbolizes mother Mary holding Jesus, the son of the FATHER. In verse 22, the tree symbolizes God the Father and His love. It's a minor point, but offers a slightly different slant if you read all of these verses focusing on phrase, "God the Eternal Father".
We renew all covenants during the sacrament not just baptismal covenants
I ok thought it was the Holy Ghost talking to Nephi though right?
need to take note on 18:18
I would say that the dream and vision were centered on the fruit 🍓🍑 of the tree of life, most precious and desirable to make us happy. The fruit of whose womb, Jesus?
I would suggest reading the first seven verses of 1 Nephi 11
@@CwicShow of course I did ❤
Lehi came to the Tree of Life, partook of the fruit, and invited the rest of his family to come and partake. Why didn't he pluck some of the fruit and bring it back to his family? Something for you to think about.
What makes you think they would eat it. If they aren't willing to make the journey using their agency on their own. God wants us to come to him on our own accord not have someone coax us to him.
You can drag a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
If I ever had a doubt about the BOM, it's that part of the vision where Nephi beheld the city of Nazareth. Nazareth was nothing, other than Jesus' happening to live there, but Nephi saw it, and not only that, he saw it 600 years in the past!
He saw it in the time of Jesus
@@CwicShow I'm just saying, nobody who didn't live there didn't even know about it, never mind 600 years later
I agree. I have a hard time with the Dave Butler and Margarette Barker takes in some aspects. However, it does seem that Israel did have a fascination with Ashera. Was it paganism or something else? If Heavenly Mother played such a grand part in it all, why was the teaching not more prevalent in the restoration? But I also find it interesting that every temple does seem to have a representation of a tree in the CR and that it seems to have only matrons working in them.
Only sister temple workers are in the celestial room because only women serve in the attendant posts in the temple with exception to the men's dressing room.
@@emilineharris3724 Why?
@@cabarete2003 I actually don't know why. I just assumed that it's because women are seen to be more friendly/inviting. It's a good question. Also this is just my experience in Utah. Maybe it's different in different countries?
@@cabarete2003It may also be purely logistical. There may be fewer male temple workers, or the men may be needed for the ordinances that women can't officiate in.
Maybe that is how your temple president runs it- men and women do both of those things in “our” temple. There is nothing that says only women work in the Celestial room, or the entry way or other places like that.
It is the HolyGhost.
John 15: Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
The fruit of the tree is Jesus Christ. The tree itself is the mother. That is clearly spelled out in first Nephi eight and 11.
I can't read the Book of Mormon the same since you've presented Dr Butlers work.
Once you see *it* you simply cannot unsee it ever again.
See what butlers false teaching on the tree of life .
@@lindamartinez7006 Explain how it's false, and please provide the correct interpretation, as well as your credentials to make such a statement.
From the comments, it seems clear that the general membership isnt ready for an advanced understanding of the Book of Mormon. Not ready for the meat, back to milk.
2 Nephi 32:4 - they neither ask nor knock.
Wrong. The Spirit in 1 Nephi 11:11 was The Holy Ghost, not Jehovah
Greg, why don’t you include the Father in condescension as he condescended to participate in the physical creation of Jesus?
brother Madsen. I have to agree here. Verse 16 clearly reads, “knowest thou the condescension of God?“. Taken in context it seems just as reasonable to conclude the “condescension of God”, in this case, could mean God the Father, condescending to procreate with a mortal to create a physical body for the Son of God. I’m open to why this might be a less preferable interpretation. Love ur stuff BTW thanks
Brother Madsen. Verse 16 clearly reads, “knowest thou the condescension of God?“. Taken in context it seems just as reasonable to conclude the “condescension of God”, in this case, could mean God the Father, condescending to procreate with a mortal to create a physical body for the Son of God. I’m open to why this might be a less preferable interpretation. Love ur stuff BTW thanks
Yes but it was a virgin birth. Jesus was the express immage of his farher. This is evidenced in the statement of Jesus himself when he responded to an apostle who asked Jesus to show them the Father. He also said he did the works of his father, which implies interesting possibilities.
AI is against my personal religion. 😁
The Tree of Life Vision shows the destruction of the Jaredites in Egypt.
Riplakish built the large and spacious buildings in Ether 10:5. Fine Linen is mentioned in Ether 10:24. They begin to "mock" in Ether 12:23-26. All of this happened near the "Narrow Neck of Land" (Ether 10:20) which is the Isthmus of Suez in Egypt.
The Jaredites started in Ethiopia (Garden of Eden Genesis 2:13) and migrated North to Egypt. Then they sailed to Israel and settled the Biblical Promise Land. They brought the Milk and Honey. Prophets like Omer in Ether 9:3 migrate back South to Egypt. The downfall of the Jaredites is in Egypt.
When Lehi leaves Israel he goes into Egypt. The Vision is describing the downfall of the Jaredites in Egypt. It's meant as a warning for Lehi and his posterity. The Destruction of the Nephites is connected to the vision by the angel when the angel speaks to Nephi in 1 Nephi 12.
The vision commands Lehi return to the starting location of the Jaredites and not stay in Egypt or suffer the same fate. The vision commands he follow the Nile to Ethiopia, the Garden of Eden and the location of the Tree of Life. The river in the vision is the Nile.
Lehi migrated to Ethiopia.
Helaman 3 is a description of migrating back North to Egypt. That chapter goes into detail describing Egypt. "Treeless", "cement", "shipping" etc. all describe Egypt to the North of Ethiopia. Egypt is where the Nephites were destroyed same as the Jaredites. This is why the angel tells Nephi about the destruction of the Nephites in association with the Tree of Life Vision in 1 Nephi 12. The angel mentions it will happen on the same river as the on in the vision (1 Nephi 12:16). This is the Nile.
The BOM is the story of the Lord's righteous migrating between Ethiopia and Israel and getting destroyed in Egypt. This is what Jeremiah was talking about in Jeremiah 44.
A lot of other details point to this like the word "desolation". Jeremiah 44 claims Egypt will become a "desolation". This is why the Nephites refute the idea of "desolation" in Helaman 3:6 when they explain they are migrating back to Egypt.
Another word is "forbidden". Lehi sees the righteous falling onto "forbidden paths" and we read in the Book of Abraham that "Egypt signifies that which is forbidden". This all goes along with the theory that the destruction of the righteous happens in Egypt.
In their minds, the entire world is just Africa and Asia and they are separated by the Isthmus of Suez in Egypt. One great ocean and two land masses connected by a "Narrow Neck of Land".
Ether 2:13 and Ether 10:20 are both describing the Isthmus of Suez in Egypt. Retrace the migrations (forward and backwards) from there and you'll see what I'm saying. The Jaredites started in Ethiopia (Genesis 2:13) and migrated to Israel then back South to Egypt where they are destroyed.
Lehi was forced to migrate South to Egypt where he was warned no to stay there by seeing the Tree of Life Vision and the destruction of the Jaredites. He migrates to Ethiopia and the Nephites survived until they migrate back to Egypt in Helaman 3 where they are eventually destroyed as well.
Moroni included the story of the Jaredites to give greater context to the Tree of Life Vision. He assumed you would realize the "large and spacious buildings" were built by Riplakish in Egypt. He assumed you would realize the "continually flowing river" is the Nile in Egypt.
Gregg come on dint preach this false doctrine . Yes it is the tree of life is only Jesus Christ .
Thanks Greg!! I really enjoy your videos on the Tree of Life. I perceive a triple meaning or levels to the tree of life in the tiny space between these two ears. 1) The gospel of Jesus Christ. 2) Eternal progression. 3) The eternal posterity of the Family of GOD. 😇
If I had anything to add to the wisdom in this issue.... Yikes... I wouldn't put too much trust in AI. A down fall is... it creates artificial intelligence and can make mistakes. Look what it's done to Shirly Temple!! It gave her a job as Whitehouse Press Secretary. 🤣
I understood it as the tree of life is asharah, and the fruit is Jesus Christ.
John 15: Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
No that is not our doctrine . The tree of life is Jesus Christ . The fruit is the gospel ordinances baptism HolyGhost temple covenants families forever . Jesus atonement . Faith repentance sacrament . Those are the delicious fruit . Get a body learn to chose right from wrong . Live back in celestial glory with God Jesus and families . Tastes good .
@@BbulL2027 a branch cannot bear fruit of itself???? I can take a fruit branch and graft it on another fruit tree and bear fruit. But the fruit is in the branch not the roots or trunk.
@@chucknelson1378 not sure what you are saying. Christ is the vine/stock and he says that we are the branches. If we the branches abide in Him, or in other words, the branch is grafted into the vine, it will bring forth fruit.
Tree is Devine feminine and the fruit is the son. Right?
Christ is the serpent on the staff, the god on the cross, and the fruit on the tree.
The tree is a symbol of God's love. The tree provides that which is desirable above all else. The tree is a symbol of Jesus Christ. The fruit is a symbol of the atonement, the application of the atonement, and exaltation.
@@shredboise okay, wondering where this perspective is in the scriptures, since Nephi’s dream closely links the tree with the divine feminine.
Jesus was not born again at his baptism. Jesus is and always has been God and as an eternal, Omnipotent being enterned into his creation ( in its fallen state ) to rescue us from ourselves . Phil 2 Your rehashing B R McConkie false doctrine from the early 80s, Greg .
Baptism represents birth. Whether or not Jesus was "born again" of the Spirit has nothing to do with it. It is the symbolism and condescension.
I'm sorry, but in listening to this lecture, I don't feel the Spirit. I get that these interpretations are meaningful to you and based on listening to your other podcasts... they are something you get excited about.
However, we have not only been given the interpretation Nephi received, we also are given the interpretation Nephi gives to his brethren.
The tree is a representation of God's love, Jesus Christ. The fruit is a representation of that which brings the most joy, something to be partaken of, the atonement, the application of the atonement in our lives, and eternal life.
What I hear in this lecture is an obsession with abstract personal symbolism.
Yes, it’s important scholarship to me. That’s how we learn the gospel, we study. And this is a hot topic right now. Stick to what you want. And this may not be what you want. That's ok.
I agree about the condescension of God and that being born to Mary represents the Son of God being born in the flesh. Or another title is the Only Begotten in the flesh. But please consider that it is the FRUIT that represents Christ. Manna from heaven was sweet like honey and shaped like small fruit that represented Christ. The liahona was a small hand held ball that represented Christ similar shaped to the Hebrew Manna, and the liahona represented Christ. The Jaredite stones that Christ touched with his light represented Christ. I personally feel that all these things represent the fruit of the tree of life. I even like to speculate that the white stone in Revelation and the Doctrine Covenants is in the realm of the same symbolism. That it will be our own urim and thummim that represents Christ.
I might be speculating too far on all this but all these items to me represent Christ, the fruit of the tree. To me the tree represents Heavenly Mother and the fruit represents Christ the Only Begotten in the spirit world. And it also represents the tree, Mary and Christ, the Son, God in the Flesh. The tree being the white beautiful representation of a mother, the “love” of God our Heavenly Father, and their Son, the fruit, being Christ, also the love of God.
I still loved hearing your take, and I personally think the symbolism of the tree is polysemous, both Christ and the Mother. But my personal take is the fruit represents Christ.
Nephi's vision is not an allegory where each item represents a distinct and separate thing or person. Many of the items in the vision are symbolic of Christ: the path, the iron rod, the tree, the fruit, and the fountain of living waters.
I agree. The living water represents Christ. The iron rod is the word of god which is Christ.
I have no problem with people that view the tree as Christ. Like Greg said, the whole chapter is about Christ. I personally see the tree as Christ in the sense that the tree is the mother and the fruit is Christ. The tree being Mary reinforces the concept on the condescension of God. I agree the tree as a whole, the tree and the fruit, represent Christ and His condescension. But my personal belief, and you all can disagree, is the fruit is specifically Christ.
I also wanted to add the to the small fruit-like symbols that I mentioned, is the sacrament bread is also a symbol of the fruit of the tree.
Get over it . The tree of life is only Jesus Christ . Our prophets have cleared this meaning up many times . Stop playing mind games like you have any right at l to
Present it different then prophets teach . That is not your call. Only a prophet can Interpret scripture for the whole church . You need to just quit with this is what I think .
This is to the first comment
@@lindamartinez7006
I’m saddened that you leave no room for people’s opinions. I’m sad you can’t be kind about sharing your belief that the tree represents Christ only. I have no hard feelings about your belief. I was just sharing mine. I hope you are blessed with peace and the love of Christ.
ok. I also LOVE this conversation. But I have heard the guys over at Stick of Joseph with Butler and May talking about this and I don't think you're framing the conversation correctly.
I haven't heard anyone say that the focus on Christ isn't important (or even LESS important) than the idea that Mary is ALSO a focus.
Here I reference the times where you and Porter talk about the feminine part of Egyptian hierarchy and the pattern of importance the women have in choosing their leaders.
Egypt was ALSO a God based society at the beginning. (note their historical connections).
So, IF they were a God based society at one point, then it stands to reason that MARY giving birth to the Savior was just as important as the birth itself as it was the TESTIMONY and the Historical basis for identifying a true thing...in this case, that Jesus Christ IS the Christ by virtue of His birth.
In other words, I don't think one takes precedence over the other in terms of value. They are just DIFFERENT values...but they are BOTH values that are important in understanding the story.
in all fairness, I haven't heard Butler discuss the Divine Feminine in specific terms, but the idea seems to be worthy of conversation without drawing battle lines around it. This, in my own view, is what happened to the Deuteronomists of the Bible. They took themselves too seriously and became an enemy of the truth rather than a purveyor of it. (I love the conversation around Laman and Lemuel being Deuteronomists as it makes perfect sense from several BoM examples).
If anyone hasn't heard, Dave Butler has a new book out called "In the Language of Adam" that I find quite compelling and worthy of anyone who wants to look deeper into the teachings of the Temple as it is AMAZING!
Oh I bet butlers temple book is just so good when he teaches part of the temple ceremony is you must be beat. He is a nut .
@@lindamartinez7006 that’s a tiny part of the book. There was a ton more information about what WAS required in THEIR dispensation.
But the book puts it all in context with supporting evidences from inside and outside the church.
So if you think he’s a nut for teaching something you just don’t understand yet, give him a chance to explain it in more detail.
This book comes with extended commentary on YT that you can also learn from after reading each of the 13 chapters.
Another thing he shared is that, not only was it a requirement to not have bad feelings for others, but if anyone had bad feelings towards YOU, but you didn’t feel the same way, then it was YOUR job to fix it before the blessings of the Temple could be realized!
Most people don’t think it’s possible…
I KNOW, for myself, that it IS!
So don’t throw the baby out with the bath water on this one 😁
BRM in the mortal messiah states this is Jehovah and bases that on his role and actions. He contradict Talmadge who believes it is the 3rd member of the godhead. Yet appearing to others in personage has not occurred before or since for the HG. And Nephi uses the term spirit of the lord to indicate Jehovah. Seminary manuals used to indicate it was the HG but not any more. IMHO it is the savior that initially presents himself then at one of the “Look” statements it changes to another personage, a messenger. Compare and contrast with visit to Mahonri Moriancamur.
Yes and this interpretation also follows the pattern of John the Revelator in the book of Revelation where Jesus Chris appears to John as well as angelic messengers. Nothing about the Holy Ghost appearing to him as a Personage which happens nowhere in scripture that I'm aware of, although the Holy Ghost is manifest as a dove in the New Testament but not a Personage.
James talmage was asked to write the book Jesus the Christ in the Tempe . I would give heed to his words .
@@cameronreed1411 Maybe this will help, Cameron. Before Jesus was tabernacled with His body of flesh and bone... He was a holy ghost. In fact... He was the very Holy Spirit who spoke to the prophets of old and the precise personage who showed Himself to many of them. :>)
@@cameronreed1411Jesus never appears in the book of revelation directly he sends a messenger who speaks for him. From the start of revelations it’s very clear Jesus is not physically there
@@lindamartinez7006 The history of his experimentation with drugs (cannabis) and smoking appears not to phase you either? Because he wrote a book in the temple?
Yeah no. Mary is the tree. Christ is the fruit. To see it any other way is to deny the vision as perfectly laid out by the Spirit to Nephi. I get why you want to emphasize the meaning towards Jesus. But the general membership of the church already interprets everything that way. They need their eyes opened to the significance of why the spirit chose to emphasize Mary to Nephi. It’s plain. Is precious. It’s mystery. It’s in plain sight to those without preconceived notions. And it really needs to be taught and emphasized instead of recognized and cautioned as you are doing here.
2 Nephi 11:4 all things which have been given of God from the beginning of the world, unto man, are the typifying of him.
We all have our opinions.