Why Was Zacian Banned From Competitive Ubers Pokemon?
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- čas přidán 4. 03. 2022
- Why Was Zacian Banned From Competitive Ubers Pokemon?
Pokemon can be crazy sometimes.
Competitive Ubers Pokemon refers to Smogon's competitive singles played on play.pokemonshowdown.com The tier is SS Ubers
This is singles only
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Ah yes, the best over powered trio. God themself, Mega evolved guardian of the planets outer skies, and big dog with stick.
Green snek
Space llama
Doggo
@@MisterSleep1123 *sword doggo
god, space snek, dark souls boss
I think Ghost horse fused with psychic plant is also really op
Is there a legend about a dog with a sword? Because this is getting common
It's incredible how Quagsire remains relevant in so many oddly specific scenarios despite having such mediocre stats. It's basically the dark horse of competitive Pokemon.
What
@Ik i mean as in, what is a dark horse
@Punga a dark horse refers to an unseen, unnoticed, or disregarded foe that unexpectedly becomes a threat. Think most video game player characters.
You can not stop the quag.
Quagsire is just happy about life and despite being outclassed, having bad stats and getting it's niche taken away, it somehow still sees competitive play in legit every tier lol.
But hey! Regigigas it's so powerful it needs an ability to nerf it!
*regigigas
Not hard lol
Regi + giga + s
Regigas would be a perfect Poison regi
Regigas as new regi for gen 9
And Zamazenta for whatever reason can't get Body Press...
Slaking knows the pain. Imagine that behemoth with any other ability, let alone gorilla tactics 🤣
Short answer:
-Has arguably the best dual typing in the entire game
-Giving an attack boost to a base 170 mon upon entry is stupid
-2 points slower than electrode
-typing and defenses can help it set up swords dances
-its best answer is a pink blob
-stupid move pool, allowing it to hit ALMOST the entire metagame with either neutral or super effective damage
-assurance for necrozma dusk mane
-basically everything Regigigas wishes it had
Except the fire bugs, forcing it to have wild charge (which does recoil) or crunch
It also has one of the most powerful steel type moves in the game which ALSO does double damage to dynamax Pokémon.
Zacian has the best defensive typing on paper, but it's weaknesses to ground and fire were extremely exploitable, as they are two of the most common types. It's also an offensively mediocre stab combination. Fairy is very good, but steel has absolutely no synergy with it. It's movepool is sufficient, but shallow.
“No synergy” as the steel, poison and fighting weaknesses are all cancelled. It’s an insane typing both on paper AND practice. It might not be as insane offensively, in which it’s still good btw, but defensively you really can’t say it’s not busted.
@@Rarest26 Steel and Poison are literally a non-factor in Ubers, and fighting is nice for Marshadow and various coverage moves, but isn't phenomenal. Ground and fire are probably the two most common offensive types in Ubers, run by a lot of different mons, so being weak to them is unfortunate. You have to consider the meta when you determine what is and isn't great defensive typing. And it's an ok offensive typing, being completely carried by Fairy. Steel is simply a very bad offensive type. It's undoubtedly an amazing typing, but isn't utilized to it's full potential.
I never even considered using assurance to capitalize on stealth rock damage, I always just saw it as a doubles move
It's not worth it just run max bulk necrozma and rocky helmet
@@cubestuff3928 Assurance into Close Combat KOs max physdef ndm after rocks.
Assurance is a pretty underrated move, I used to run it on CB Krook in UU, its very easy to pick KOs if rocks are up
@@luirromenjivar1390 It's really good if you're able to predict.
@@cubestuff3928 +1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Assurance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 240-283 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 160-189 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Guaranteed OHKO
"Guys we removed 70% of the national dex in order to have a balanced game"
- Gamefreak
Muh Quality Animations
Balanced around Zacian’s forms and nothing else.
@@getthegoons Game victim of development hell
Yeah, tbh it did.
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 "Balanced"
-Switching is basically unpunishable with easy access to hazard immunity, with no pursuit to punish sloppy switching.
- dynamax massively changes battlefield in way not even Megas did, via massive buffs to survivability, damage, AND high damaging moves that have extra effects like stat changes or weather effects
-removing pokemon does not make remaining pokemon stronger, just makes some pokemon more used to compensate for their better counterparts being gone, only to be immediately discarded when the better version returns for the low low price of $19.99
-many removals seem to have no reason, set damage attacks were hardly making waves at VGC, Pursuit was the ONLY move that directly punished sloppy switching, Return was the only physical Normal Move that didn't cause recoil, (it may have had an oddly high BP but they've changed BPs not even 2 generations ago). Even moves like Double-Slap were removed.
- Few to no changes were actually made to base mechanics beyond removing two of the coolest mechanics to hit pokemon in a decade.
-Pokemon that got in don't seem to have any consistent requirements, besides a strangely high amount of DPP pokemon not making it (Can't imagine that had anything to do with BDSP, here have a game you can actually use your gen 4 mons)
-Zacian Crowned is broken in basically every conceivable way it can be, to the point I'm pretty sure it has joined Mega Rayquaza in the big Anything Goes in the sky. Conversely Zamanzenta Crowned was tested for OU at least once because it's too bad for Ubers. This isn't about legendaries being too strong for regular mons, these are counterparts that have a massive gap in viability.
-Instead of validating the excuse by taking the time to rework the Stats of the previous pokemon that DID get in, they just did the usual 2-3 new moves, with only a couple pokemon seeing buffs.
-In addition to balance they claimed they removed pokemon due to time constraints for new, high quality animations, which many a youtuber have disproven, showing GF reused most if not all of their older pokemons animations, reusing animations from USUM Hop for SWSH Hop (I legit don't remember which one is which), leaving a mouse cursor visible in a cutscene, leaving parts of animations out of sync, not animating things like a pikaclone shocking a panel in a cutscene.
SwSh were abortions of games that deserve every bit of shit they get. Balance my ass they wanted to sell the rest of the dex in DLC and be called heroes for it.
Edit- may have mixed the legendary dogs up because guess what they're the same fucking thing.
That thumbnail got a big laugh from me. I love all the weird places you see Quagsire.
"This is one of the most broken Pokemon in the Ubers tier. Quagsire reliably checks it."
They made the Mascots of the Gen so unbalanced. Zacian was so good, that both forms got banned from Ubers. Whereas there was a time where they tested if Zamazenta-Crowned could drop to OU. They really shafted Zamazenta. If it got Body Press, it would actually be good. The worst part is that it doesn't even get Swords Dance and the only way to boost Attack was Howl.
What bothers me the most about Zamazenta was that they could've made Behemoth Bash into a better Body Press, but no
They could at the very least swap thier typings - Zacian gets more offensive typing, Zamazenta gets more defensive one
I think it's that zamezenta's older sIster is just a better fighter so they made them pretty meh to reflect canon
It's really weird cause it seems like Body Press was _made_ for Zamazenta.
Body Press with max defense would still deal less damage than Zamazenta's Close Combat because CC is 50% more powerful.
- 252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 780-920 (109.2 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +1 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 770-908 (107.8 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You could argue that it's worth running a defensive nature to get more out of Body Press, but that lowers the power of Zamazenta's other moves, too. If Zamazenta had some supportive moves that could let it get away with rocking 1 or 2 attacks instead of 3 or 4, Body Press would do a lot for it, but it doesn't have ANY utility. No Toxic, Spike, Toxic Spikes, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rocks, Haze, Recover, or Defog. It only gets Helping Hand, Light Screen, and Reflect, and Zamazenta Crowned can't even run Light Clay to make use of them.
I had no idea stuff like Stealth Rocks counted for Assurance. I always assumed it was just a move meant for double battles like Helping Hand or something
Same here... thats kinda OP
Literally any sort of damage counts. Even Life Orb damage will trigger Assurance.
There was even some adaptation on zacian’s end to beat quagsire:
Some variants ran groudon as a teammate and solar blade to eviserate quag while also smacking opposing groudon hard
As a person who stopped playing competitively since gen 8, I found amusing how much broken this thing is in comparison to Zamazenta.
Zamazenta is even considered to be dropped to OU...
Zacian plushes sell out while Zamazenta ones remain on shelves in droves lol
It makes me sad because I like Zamazenta's design more and yet it feels like Gamefreak did everything possible to make it suck (giving a defensive mon bad defensive capabilities)
I wish Zamazenta got a recovery move. It would have fit in to his 'shield' theme more.
Or maybe a Draining move. Decent typing and bulk + Swords Dance + recovery. Sounds good to me.
How about a "Why is Quagsire everywhere" breakdown?
> Not used enough to rise tiers which allows splashability all the way from PU all the way up to AG.
> Great Swampert Defensive typing
> Able to spread dangerous status with Scald and Toxic
> Burn and Toxic immune mons gets mauled by Earthquake
> Recover
> unaware? i forgor?
@@butteredsalmonella >haze utility
That might be too long a story. A bit outdated but False Swipe Gaming has a video on Quagsire.
Quagsire is pretty much only as good as the tier around it; the better the threats, the better Quag can perform. It's much like Ditto in this respect. Of course, the problem is that while being usable in any tier, Quag & Ditto are also not receiving enough usage in any tier to become mainstays in any of them, hence why they're always at the bottom of the tier rung.
@@butteredsalmonella Emphasis on the “Great Swampert typing” point. There literally is a venn diagram between Quag, Swampert, Gastrodon, and Seismitoad, and each one has different strong suits that make them very relevant over the entire metagame.
...And in the center is just a small point saying “Better than Whiscash.”
I never will understand why they made zacian the most broken thing ever while Zamazenta is just meh
Zamazenta should have gotten body press.It's literally being suspect-tested for OU right now.
Zamazenta’s behemoth bash should’ve worked like body press imo.
@@jaggedventure For sure, hope Game freak change it next gen
@@idosomethingiguess3680 Again? Flinchinator really doesn't understand the concept of how having massive bulk can make an otherwhise mediocre mon opressive.
@@idosomethingiguess3680 That happened last year, it's still too good for OU
Still stupid that Zamazenta loses Speed for donning armor while his sister be like "ayo time to nyoom"
I confirm that holding a knife in your mouth makes you run faster
It's like with each generation gamefreak is just trying to one up themselves by seeing just how broken they can make a pokemon
Yes! Every Gen it’s something more OP than before. Tapu Koko? Here take Regieleki, Xerneas? Pdon? Here Zacian and Caly-S
Honestly surprised they didn't just make Icineroar 2.0 for gen 8 but maybe they're saving it for gen 9
Kinda feels like every generation since generation 5, the overall quality of the games are going down. The actual pokemons and their designs are looking worse.
And of course, they're powercreeping the shit out of things.
I mean, giving a dog the same basepower stats as the godmon who created the universe is kinda sus.
@@henrikswanstrom9218 Gen 5 got a lot of hate (and they do have their problems) but they were definitely the last good games. I remember having a hard time with that normal type gym leader. It actually felt like a Pokemon game and not a cheap spinoff.
The new games are all way too easy, there are too many legendaries that are way too broken and even break the lore of Pokemon overall (Mewtwo was created to be the strongest and was thus too powerful to be tamed and Lugia was so powerful that it had to reside at the bottom of the sea to control itself; neither are that strong relative to the other Pokemon in Ubers and AG which sort of ruins their appeal.)
I also dislike the over-focus on the story of the new games including gens 3-5. Having a prominent story kind of gets in the way of the role-playing aspect in my opinion. I want to be a Pokemon trainer, not a Final Fantasy saviour of the universe protagonist.
One theory I have about Zacian Crowned, and to a lesser extent Necrozma DM, is that Gamefreak for whatever reason does not want to nerf Xerneas directly so instead they indirectly nerf it by adding mons that can deal with it like the aforementioned mons.
Interesting theory
If that's the case, Game Freak has made a massive No No. Power Creep to solve Power Creep never works because you end up just making new problems you need to solve and it's never ending cycle the ends up causing the game to become unstable.
Playing TCGs myself (namely Yugioh and Vanguard), this a constant problem
@@BlackKyurem5 Pokémon TCG has power creep too
One of the Gen 9 legendaries actually just got leaked, it's a Steel type which has a new ability which causes Xerneas to instantly faint when switched in
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.
@@BlackKyurem5 When it's properly controlled, power creep can also maintain long term interest in a game, though. They usually become more intimidating for new players (yugioh), but consistent, longtime players are more likely to stick around, because the game is introducing fresh problems for them solve.
If the Anything Goes tier eventually becomes like Ubers and gets a tier above it, I think it should be renamed ‘Anything Went.’
With the constant powercreep, I wouldn’t be shocked if this was a thing in Gen 9
@peter pan its a joke lol
@@anthonystrangio Actually I woulnd't be surpised if there is eventually pokemon or strats too good for AG
wait for them to release eternamax eternatus as a mystery gift in 2034 and you will have ur wish
How about “God Tier”
Zacian can even counter Quagsire too. If it's on Sun it can run Solar Blade, or Hero could run power herb. Zacian is too busted man
Then an opposing fire type will ohko it.
Or I dunno, the fire bugs that resist its stabs, fighting coverage, forcing it to run crunch or wild charge
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 Assuming you're playing Zacian in a sun team. You can't just randomly put Quagsire in front of it without knowing it might be a great risk
I would just use Magnezone with Rocky Helmet to trap Zacian.
@@luciusirving5926 that is a great way to lose a magnezone. Every Zacian runs Tera Blast Fire, and if they aren't using that they're running Sacred Sword. The slight bit of chip from Helmet isn't going to do anything
Man, someone at gamefreak really likes zacian, and really hates zamazenta. Let's make a legendary duo, make one banded mega rayquaza that isn't locked into a move with a better typing and higher speed, and make the other borderline useless, while also introducing a fighting type move that uses defense and not giving it to them.
This is why quagsire is an absolute unit. God tier Pokémon that doesn't care about anything. I swear the amount of people on showdown trying to get massive stat buffs against my quagsire is just insane.
Well, I'm going to assume from the thumbnail that it was a super strong attacker that came with a built-in Choice Band (without the drawbacks) and a way to further boost itself while providing immense pressure to everything in the metagame with great Fairy/Steel STAB options. This meant that Unaware users were necessary for teambuilding, but since Zacian hit Clefable super-effectively, Quagsire was the wall of choice.
Correct!
Mega Requazza has a friend now!! :D
He’ll forever get bullied by rayquaza cause rayquaza straight bodies him every time
@@gabrielmatovcik8211 well, they both check each other
@@tranviethuy5224 Is a matter of which one got into the field first and what item mega-ray is using rn
@@tranviethuy5224 mega rayquaza is faster and kills specially defensive zacian 100% of the time with v create with rayquaza having no special attack investment
@@alejandromolina2802 yeah, if ray is running scarf, it is win for it, but if ray runs band, doggo will win
Shoutout to Zacian getting banned from the banlist while Zamazenta crowned was tested in OU for being so bad in ubers lol
And Zamazenta is too good for it, right?
Game freak was *so* brain dead when they made zacian, like they not only gave it a broken speed stat but also a attack boost, its literally a mega *mega* mawile, I know box legendaries supposed to be good but zacian is just ridiculous, even xernes has to set up before it becomes broken, i think gamefreak just stop caring about balance after they release mega-ray, I'm really scared about how broken the gen 9 box legendaries are gonna be.
why? they will just be put in AG if they are.
I mean, it IS banned in official VGC as are most cover legendaries so it kinda makes sense why GF wouldn’t care about balancing them
@@MrZer093 no, we play with it. Series 12 is a restricted format. It's mythical pokemon that we're not allowed to use.
Anyway it's broken in double restricted but was manageable in single restricted. Hooray. "Just use groudon" no longer works when Kyogre gets to hang with Zacian...
@@louc.6735 Zacian damages groudon too really heavily,
@@daphenomenalz4100 if you maneuver right, a Groudon team can beat a Zacian team. It's just harder with 2 restricteds.
Pretty much all the reasons I expected to hear. Zacian-Crowned has few rivals in terms of power, but it also gets a 50% Attack boost on top of that with nearly no drawbacks. It also naturally outruns the majority of the game's speed demons. Dragapult, insane speed demon introduced this generation, and one of the fastest Pokémon _ever_ at the time of its introduction? Outrun by Zacian. Which is honestly just insulting.
If Zacian had a narrow movepool or if Unaware was widely distributed, maybe it wouldn't have been as big of an issue. But I definitely can't say GameFreak went crazy in a good way with Zacian.
One of the reasons is it’s amazing stat distribution. 148 Speed and 170 attack? That’s like perfect for offensive Pokémon. Compare that to say Xerneas who has a wasted 131 attack stat. Zacian and Calyrex have the literal best stat distribution for offensive Pokémon. There is literally no other 680+ stat total Pokémon that have such a perfect stat distribution. Having both high speed and high power is overpowered for obvious reasons.
Zamazenta should get Kings Shield and Body Press.
I agree!!!
Zamazenta should've gotten Zacian's typing and I will forever be upset by how shafted it was
Come to think about it, does Zacian get STAB with _any_ sword/blade moves? Missed opportunity right there.
@@RaceBandit Well it does get stab on Behemoth Blade.
Basically: imagine mega mawile overall but with the explosive power of mega ray and enough speed to outspeed accelgor
Gen 8 Ubers Pre-Bank was actually my favorite tier to this day, had a 87% winrate or something like that with Zacian-Crowned, Ditto, Polteageist, Gothitelle, Weezing Galar, Quagsire.
I love your videos. You do a stellar job of explaining the nuances of competitive Pokémon and cover fascinating stuff I’d never have learned otherwise.
I very much enjoy your content, this short vids about comp refresh my day.
Keep the good work Freezai :)))
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Hey Freezai! I would like a video where you explain why Calyrex-Ice is Ubers and the Legendary it possesses, Glastrier, is PU. When I first saw that, I was very confused at first.
Pure Ice type is not great, absolutely awful speed, worse Ice stab, and not nearly as good of a move pool compared to the other. It’s similar to some of the Regis that have consistently been low tier. Good stats in some respects, awful typing and movepool that is lacking.
Ah so basically why Regice has been PU for so long.
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting @TheGuyWhoIsSitting It's movepool is great, speed is so good for trick room. It's typing is what holds it back. It is a top tier in a restricted format in vgc
Basically, the only difference between Calyrex-Ice Rider and Glastrier is Glacial Lance. If it did not have that excellent of a move, Calyrex-Ice Rider would never be used like Ice legendaries of old that are not Kyurem-White.
Calyrex-Ice has higher stats, access to Trick Room to make up for its low speed, and Glacial Lance as STAB instead of Icicle Crash, which is both less powerful and less accurate.
During the beginning of SS ubers I unironically used quick attack on my zacian to kill opposing zacians, behemoth blade would leave them below 10 percent hp and quick attack would guarantee me winning the speed tie.
I felt that Zacian-Hero shouldn't have gone because it's pure Fairy Typing meant it was more vulnerable to being KO'd by offensive Duskmane and Eternatus than Zacian-Crowned, but given how Banded Hero technically has more firepower than Crowned, I can understand.
But I'm insulted that gamefreak made it's counterpart, Zamazenta, absolute trash in competitive play. I mean, at least they could've given it body press so it could do something decent...
It needs both Body Press and King's Shield. Perhaps throw in some semi reliable recovery as well?
@@FatherOfGray Well, if Zamazenta gets no instant recovery move besides rest or an iron defense + body press combo, then there's no reason to use it over Duskmane, which not only has Dragon Dance, Trick Room, and Swords Dance (or can hold Weakness Policy) but also gets Morning Sun/Moonlight.
Also the typings are so messed up. Zacian has super effective CC and neutral Play Rough for Zamazenta, but Zamazenta a literal shield doggo but cant beat a sword doggo since Zacian is neutral to stab CC and resists Behemoth Bash. It would have been great if Zamazenta was Fairy/Shield (and learned Crafty Shield) to counter Zacian a Fighting/Steel. Or otherwise Zamazenta should have gotten Body Press to itself be good.
Zamazenta is weaker for an Uber, but some legendaries have to be the weaker of the legendaries. It’s still very strong, just not broken enough to generally warrant a spot on a team of 6. When it was suspect tested in OU that shit was broken lol
@@Frilleon Too strong from OU doesn't necessarily mean broken. Look at Genesect, Cinderace, Spectrier, Lugia, Kyurem, Kyurem-White, Kyurem-Black, Naganadel, Necrozma-DW, Reshiram, Dialga, and Palkia.
To be honest the best zacian check I’ve used is sand rush choice band excadrill in a sandstorm you easily have enough speed to out speed it and have enough power to OHKO it with a super effective move like earthquake for crowned zacian and iron head for hero zacian
Yeah, they shafted up shield players.
Mostly better gym leaders, better DLC characters, better exclusives, better box legend, ect.
As a Shield player, having Zamazenta be demolished by Zacian both offensively AND defensively hurts.
Why are they a duo when one is objectively better?
"Quagsire is the only check" I love that derpy boi so much.
Even quagsire goes down to Solarblade sets, Eject Pack lead Groudon with overheat into zacian baits in opposing quag and ohkos with solarblade. Zacain was bae.
Welcome to Anything Goes Tier
We have
*Green Snek*
*Space llama* and
*Doggo with Stick*
Right now:
God llama
Mega snek
Dog
H O R S E
These are the two sets that killed the hero form…
Set 1
Zacian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Wild Charge
Adamant / 252 / Choice Band… there is literally not a single Pokémon in the game that can switch in on this thing; everything gets 2HKO (unless its holding a berry, but that only works once). This is when people figured out that an uninvested zacian is bulkier than a fully defensive clefable. Having 188 HP EVs made this thing nearly impossible to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian Play Rough vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 322-379 (86.5 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 284-336 (76.3 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 312-367 (83.8 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also, this is what Zacian thinks of your counter
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Set: 2
Now for insanity…
This is the single dumbest set I have ever helped create…
Zacian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpD / 68 Spe
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack (whatever you need)
Where do I even begin with this one? This was originally created as a meme, but it turned out to be really good. If you thought that first set was difficult to knock out, you haven’t seen anything…
252 SpA Choice Specs Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zacian: 153-181 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zacian: 100-118 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dialga Flash Cannon vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zacian: 210-248 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zacian in Rain: 178-211 (47.8 - 56.7%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-White Fusion Flare vs. 188 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zacian: 88-104 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- 86.8% chance to 4HKO
All of these Pokémon (and many, many others) still get 1 or 2HKOd by zacian even with zero attack investment. With zero attack investment, zacian has the same effective attack stat as a base 153, 252 EVs and a boosting nature. Combine that with having wish support, tank zacian was absolutely ridiculous.
Seriously GameFreak… 92/115/115 on a “glass cannon.” There are pokemon who are supposed to be defensive that would kill to have these stats LMAO
Gamefreak: We're focusing on game balance with generation 8
Also Gamefreak: *proceeds to make some of the most overpowered Pokemon the game has ever seen.*
I've always believed that legendary duos are hardly ever balanced properly because one will ultimately always be more successful than the other, and swsh is an extreme example of this. It wasn't enough for Zacian to succeed -- Zamazenta had to fail...
Xerneas and Yveltal are actually very similar in how good they are. They've consistently been some of the best pokemon in ubers since gen 7 while also being completely different mons (aside from their identical BST). Xern is famous for clicking on 1 move to win games (or two, if you're running geomancy) while yveltal was insanely versatile in gen 7 and now fulfills its role as the most important caly-s check in the tier. We also have kyogre and groudon being roughly equal since ORAS. Gen 7 Legendaries are an interesting case: Necrozma-DM is a staple, Lunala is quite good, Solgaleo is weak and outclassed and Necrozma-DW is a horrible pokemon because it's slow with two 3x weaknesses. There was a time when both Gen 2 legends, Ho-Oh and lugia, were good, but Lugia had trouble (along with all stall mons) when Mgar came out and completely fell out of favour when Dusk mane got released.
I think Zac/Zamazenta and Kyurem-W/Kyurem-B are the only duos in pokemon that are unforgivably imbalanced, simply by virtue of how obvious the differences are. I don't think game freak could have foreseen dusk mane and mega gengar when balancing lugia, but Zac/Zam and the kyurem forms kind of reveal that their designers fundamentally did not understand competitive pokemon.
@@doomknightsepulchure I think even so, Kyurem-B problem wasn't even stats or typing, it's was movepool. After it received better movepool in Gen 8, it went to Ubers and never looked back to OU. It's not quote on the level of Kyurem-W(and due how Over-Centred Ubers are around Necrosma DM and Yvental to counter Calyrex-S, it an skewed assumption) but way better than it was!
But I think Zamazenta's problem go beyond movepool. Everything about the Pokemon makes hard to just throw something like Body Press to make it on par or even close to Zacian, it need WAY more changes to make it viable.
BTW, while not cover legendaries, Mew and Mewtwo in Gen 1 kinda had equal power, with Mewtwo focusing in Special nuking while Mew focusing on Physical nuking.
@@NataliaNeeSama Funny enough, Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W are on the same level in gen 8 ubers: they are both D-ranked pokemon meaning neither of them are considered viable. I think movepool could fix zamazenta: Give it recover and swords dance and you have a pretty decent ubers mon, IMO. As far as gen 1, there is no pokemon in gen 1 that even comes close to Mewtwo's power level. In fact there's no pokemon in any generation that has had the dominance of gen 1 mewtwo.
@@doomknightsepulchure While I agree Mewtwo is the best between Mewtwo and Mew, I still think Mew being physical deal with threats Mewtwo needs to be lucky to for, like Chansey and Slowbro. in 1VS1, if the Mew don't explode, Mewtwo wins, but usually they both work in different ways.
I'd love to see a video on why Genesect was banned!
Zacian and Zamazenta have been confirmed nerfed in S/V. Their BSTs dropped by 20 while Intrepid Sword and Dauntless Shield only work once now. Possibly other stuff too.
“Calyrex-Shadow cannot overpowered would be checks like Zacian can”
Gen 9 comes out
Calyrex-Shadow: Oh how the tables turn
And oh, did they turn
1:14 I can confirm, I've beaten many Zacians with my Dittos in AG.
Actually quagsire isnt the only counter, pyukumuku also works as its unaware counter can just kill it for attacking
Meanwhile Zamazenta nearly fell to OU from a Suspect Test…
Zacian has a ton of counters now in ND AG, you pretty much always lose now on high ladder if you have him on your team
Soo in Anything Goes:
We have the type changer, creator of all, god.
We have the green dragon, dweller of the ozone, eater of meteorites, and destroyers of alien viruses.
We have a blue doggo, usually holding a sword
This is the reason i use scarf g-darm,flare blitz is a guaranteed KO.
It takes a derpy fish to counter a sword doggo
I haven't played SwSh yet, can someone explain to me why the sword dog seems to have the best defensive typing possible and the shield dog seems offensively typed?
because Game Freak
Gamefreak!
Its likely a lore reason. The way I see it when making a pokemon GF likely compromises between competitive and story play aspects. Why the two are so loopsided is odd
Because Excalibur is magical thus fairy and the shield has mostly close combat utility with how it's used thus fighting.
Because unlike swords, shields are typically made out of muscles instead of metal
I used to run a bulky talonflame with willo wisp roost defog and double wingbeat to beat zacian and shedinja and lvl1 meme pokemons
Shedinja isn't reliable for it since Zacian can just run Crunch or Assurance. I run Crunch on my SD one since it rounds out the type coverage well.
i do think it’s funny how larvesta technically counters zacian because the best move to use against it that zacian runs is wild charge, and after recoil larvesta KOs with flare blitz. it’s not switching in to anything really, but it can take it down
Gamefreak really stopped caring about balancing their legendaries this gen. Zacian being able to outspeed and ohko most pokemon with a neutral move even when they dynamax and both calyrex riders getting a 100 accuracy 120 bp spread move combined with crazy stats and abilities.
correction actually Glacial Lance has 130 BP
I really wonder how Zacian wouldve faired in a meta with Primal Groudon running around.
Probably still busted considering how ridiculous she is
In vgc? Just fine. Probably even great on teams with Primal Groudon.
@@wolfherojohnson2766 But primal groudon?
Its more balanced in NatDex AG since it cant really break through Primal groudon that easily
Why do ppl want them back? I hate those things cuz theyre so stupid, they made SO MANY mons just bad and outclassed and just ruin the game
0:47
Didn't knew Assurance was affected by hazards, sheesh
Quagsire. Stopping earth crushing behemoths while completely Unaware.
ah, the successor of rayquaza
Sturdy plus counter plus priority usually can beat zacian. but only if no hazards. or lvl Fear sets.
Another Zacian-Crowned counter is Dugtrio with Arena Trap, Focus sash, Bulldoze first, then Earthquake. As long as there’s no hazards and Zacian doesn’t have quick attack, it should be an effective counter.
That's a check not counter.
A counter is defined by being able to switch into what it's countering.
I saw the thumbnail and thought that the video was a about Quagsire being banned
I remember when ubers was basically ag and what a big deal it was when mega rayquaza happened and caused ubers to become a tier
mega ray: banned from ubers
zacian: banned from ubers twice at once
Quagsire once again saving the day
i played ag like a year ago and got to top 100 and i never saw anyone use assurance zacian. maybe because stealth rocks would always get defoged. this made necrozma dusk mane an actualy counter that completely stopped zacian. kyogre choice scarf can also oh ko zacian crowned and out speed it with water spout
I hate it of vgc, but it's still more counterable than singles. I really want to know why Gamefreak make another broken legendary, it is no like they don't know how the game works...
Ur assuming they give af. Bad mistake my dude
@@ishanparikh5587 jaja I know, it is a sad truth
Smogon figures out stuff for them.
Yet yall are fine with the Primals and Mega Ray smh
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 No please, don't mention that cause I don't want megas to return
Quagsire’s Unaware ability extends to the meta-level.
if primal groudon was here, zacian wouldn't be banned
Zacian is so op that even it’s only priority move, quick attack, can be useful. Despite being base 40 with no chance of being super effective, the sheer power of zacian+intrepid sword means quick attack can reliably kill low health enemies that it’s slower than, and is unexpected enough that people didn’t usually predict for it. Busted af 🐶
But Slaking, Archeops, and Regigigas are the ones stuck with crappy abilities because…..?
Slaking is Box Legend stats on a standard pokemon so i'd say the negative ability is justified in it's case.
Regigigas and Slaking I can kinda explain. Since neither is counted as a restricted mon in VGC, they need something to keep them in line or else you would have two box legend esque mons in terms of stats that are always legal and woupd throw the balance of regular vgc metas out of wack.
It's a tradition at this point, no point changing it 3 gens late.
Slaking is a sloth with insane stats, regigigas just woke up from a really long sumber (even growing moss on it), ofc itll take time for it to fully wake up, archeops is the one I dont get
Idk I’ve never had an issue dealing with zacian . Granted my main gen 8 team runs trick room , but for example marrowak can beat any zacian from neutral, and my buddys sand rush team makes short work of them too . It’s a really good Pokémon , but I don’t think it’s quite mega rayquaza
Mega Rayquaza got some interesting counters with these new gen 8 pokemons
In NatDex, Zacian is an S tier mon while Rayquaza is either S- or A lol. Its better than M-Ray. Face it, M-Ray is not going to be the best forever. Nothing lasts forever.
I figured out that Rayquaza with v create and choice scarf one shots most zacian sets
Bro when he siad quagsire made me want to bash my head into something
I really want to know what Game Freak smokes when they release things like Zacian, Galarian Darmantian, Cinderace, Dragapult, Calyrex and mister fish in the same generation.
dracovish is overrated
@@soniccoconut2680 I mean, Vish was really oppresive in OU.
When Seismetoad is running out of the depths of the tiering ladder and the only other check is to have a scarfed Freeze Dryer with 80+ speed...
It's pretty oppresive then.
Sounds like full team.galar zapdos good too.rillaboom too
@@soniccoconut2680 Vish literally kills your favorite with minimal effort.
@@ibstummyhurt8057 Yes I have experimented with vish a bit more, using it with kyogre, the thing is that with scarf it is too inflexible and too weak to trick room and tailwind, but any other play style it makes vish lack too much immediate offensive pressure
When zacian runs power herb solar blade to destroy quagsire
Freezai, I know you'll never see this but can you tell us how Aegislash is banned in gen 7?
Ah the 3 overpowered Pokemon. A dog with a stick. A snake with an arrow stuck to its head and GOD.
Meanwhile Zamazenta was almost considered for OU. It's amazing how unbalanced this legendary duo is
As someone who was there, there was a ton of debate on who to ban. Everyone knew that someone had to go, but the community couldn't decide on whether it was Calyrex or Zacian. In a vacuum, Calyrex is so much worse. The reason it escaped the ban hammer is solely because of Yveltal. It's specially defensive set is a true counter. Zacian just didn't have a truly consistent counter. Dusk Mane lost to assurance + close combat on the switch, and while Quag was a legit counter, it was so exploitable by the entire rest of the tier that it wasn't a truly good option. Zacian was much easier to check than Calyrex, but nearly impossible to counter. Calyrex was nearly impossible to check, but had good counters. In my opinion, we should have banned Calyrex, and then seen if Zacian was ban worthy, but I can also see why one would view Zacian as the problem.
Of course Quagsire would show up just to mess with the dog
what video editing software do you use?
I feel like Gen 8 is the pinnacle of “Gamefreak what in God’s name we’re you thing?”
But hey, they removed a ton of Pokémon and moves like Pursuit, Facade and Hidden Power for “balance”!
gotta love that the list of pokemon banned from ubers is "dragon that rules the skies", "literally god", and "a dog with a knife"
I still think that Zacian wouldn't be a problem if Primal Groudon was still in the game. That thing was by far the most used Pokémon in Gen 7 Ubers and would completely shut down Zacian.
It lacks recovery
NononoNO.
They should NOT be in the game, do u ppl not understand how stupid the primals were? There's a reason theyre gone as they SHOULD be
National Dex AG would like to disagree.
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 oh shut up. 🙄 After the existence of Zacian, Calyrex Shadow Rider, Legends Arceus, Legends boosted Darkrai and its pre-gen 7 version, you have no business whining under every comment about people wanting the primals back.
It’s so funny that a once loose hearted all fun game of strategy turned into an entire strategic warzone.
Scarf ditto
The two best typings in the game. A special item that enables a special move. 170Atk and 148Spd. Actually decent bulk for an offensive pokemon. Superior coverage and an Atk increase just for showing up. What was gamefreak thinking? Lmao they did it on purpose and there is a reason zacian was given a crown.
imagine being a pokemon so good that it was banned from the ou banlist (ubers) and your only counter is the evolution of a meme pokemon
No generation is complete without a Quagsire randomly walling a legendary to death.
Question, and I don’t know if you’ve covered it, but is there a reason why Zangoose is banned? I always found it odd.
Yeah, I could tell Zacian was busted as soon as I had to face Hop in pokemon shield with the thing.
In the next gens I doubt it will get intrepid sword.
Quagsire couldn't take Choice Band Play Rough from Zacian Hero btw, he gets 2Hkoed after Spikes 84% of the time (+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery). And Zacian Crowned can lure it with Solar Blade in Sun which was not a gimmick considering Torkoal could check Zacian Crowned itself and sun was very popular with Groudon being added and boosted fire type attacks to roast everything, on top of removing Kyogre's rain.
Not even that, Quagsire does basically nothing outside of checking Zacian and I suppose Zygarde. Meaning everyone else runs over it. This would be fine when Zacian was the only threat however when you add in everyone else Quagsire slowly became completely unviable.
It’s funny because at the beginning people thought Ho-oh and Dusk Mane and Primal Groudon would completely shit on Primal Groudon yet that was not the case. Adding in everyone else made it harder to deal with Zacian.
Zacian crowned litterally has both of the most OP typings. Everything about it makes it the perfect pokemon.
As a anything goes player . Zacian crowned is everywhere
He was a good boy, the best boy an got all the pats
Hilarious that a laid-back, powder-blue salamander can defeat an Excalibur-wielding wolf.